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#rockbox log for 2011-06-16

00:01:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:03:06sideralbertrik: Yes, I opted for Home as the ultimate toggle key :)
00:03:24sideralIt always brings you back to the main menu, and from there to the WPS
00:03:52bertrikI'd like that
00:04:13sideralAlso, I'm using FS #11975 <> to prevent Home from doing anything when the backlight is off (except to turn it on)
00:04:13fs-bluebot Apply "Backlight on first keypress" only for certain keys (patches, new)
00:04:38sideralto avoid switching away from the WPS when the player is playing
00:04:44sideraland I want to have a look
00:05:25sideralI put the Hotkey to Long-Home, in both the tree browsers and in the WPS
00:06:02sideralIn the WPS, I put the pitch screen and the quick screen to Long-Up and Long-Down, respectively. I like this symmetry
00:06:32sideralShort Down (previously unused) now brings up the playlist
00:06:33 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:07:39sideralI made the FM radio screen mirror the WPS screen: Home returns to main menu, Long-Select brings up the context menu, Short down shows the station list
00:08:05 Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection)
00:08:08sideraland Power stops FM playback and returns to the main menu
00:08:28sideralAre you still with me bertrik?
00:08:45sideral:) OK, and now for my final trick:
00:09:09sideralSoft-lock is at Long Power
00:09:38sideralSo short power stops playback, long power is locks the screen, and even longer power turns the device off
00:09:55sideralAlso, I changed to code to accept the soft-lock key in all screens
00:10:30bertrikhm, do we have a distinction between long power and even longer power then?
00:10:53bertrik(apart from hard power-off)
00:11:19sideralYes. Long power was previously unused. And even longer power is not in the keymap, but handled directly in the button driver (IIRC)
00:11:43sideralLock (Long power) takes 1 repeat, whereas power off takes 10 repeats
00:12:04sideraland all this is still distinct from hard power-off, which takes 10 seconds
00:12:52sideralthere are two slightly annoying things with my new keymap:
00:13:37sideral1. when powering off, first a "Buttons locked" splash appears while holding Power
00:14:01sideral2. the FM screen is lacking a redraw to clear out the "Buttons locked" splash
00:14:12sideralOther than that, it's perfect :)
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00:14:58sideralAh, there's one more wishlist item:
00:15:39sideralApparently it's impossible to bring up the quick screen from the FM screen. Not sure what it would take to add support
00:16:08bertrikthe quick screen doesn't really apply to FM anyway, right?
00:16:44bertrikoh, wait, the items are configureable now
00:16:59sideralAs you see I kind of like the quick screen. I use it to adjust compression for badly leveled podcasts, as well as toggle Meier crossfeed
00:17:51sideralI can live without it on the FM screen, but I could envision useful uses for it there
00:19:29sideralany comments, or anything you find especially annoying?
00:21:00bertrikto be honest, I never use the quickscreen, pitchscreen or the hotkey and I find any keys mapped to those a waste :)
00:21:10bertriklong-power for hold kind of makes sense
00:22:06bertrikwe used to have a "no-configurable-button" policy, but that is being slowly eroded away
00:24:23bertrikI like the idea of having a consistent mapping for playlist-in-WPS and station-list-in-FMS
00:25:22sideralYeah, that inconsistency was really annoying to me
00:27:24sideralBTW, I recently bought a FuzeV2, and I have a hard time adjusting to its (Rockbox) button mappings as well. I think I'm gonna make it more like the Clip+'s, where Up/Down take the role of the scroll wheel.
00:27:46alexbobpwhere'd you find your fuze? I miss the fuze...
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00:28:22sideralbertrik: I had the same impression re configurable buttons. It looks like it just takes someone to write the code to make the configurable at run time :)
00:28:44sideralalexbobp: There's an ebay seller who sells refurbished Sansa parts
00:29:08alexbobpis the fuze+ actually succeeding in the market?
00:29:14alexbobpI cannot even imagine someone buying one and actually liking it
00:29:18sideralI think he's called itstor, located in the UK
00:29:51sideralI've had good experiences with him (two purchases, one of which required an RMA: broken clip on the Clip+)
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00:30:26 Quit bertrik (Quit: bed time)
00:30:47sideralalexbobp: I won't buy the Fuze+ unless pamaury completes his Rockbox port. The touchpad user interface seems rather backwards
00:31:55sideralThe itstor guy even paid for the postage for the RMA (after I asked for it :) )
00:32:13sideraldespite me being in a different country
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00:37:27alexbobpsideral: I certainly won't buy *any* DAP at this point that doesn't run rockbox or android
00:37:52alexbobpsideral: but the fuze+ hardware is so shitty that I don't think it could be good even with a great rockbox port
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02:01:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:48:39tucemiuxis there such a thing as a rockbox app for linux?
03:49:26JdGordonyou need to build it from source
03:52:54tucemiuxthat sucks
03:53:27JdGordonerrr... thats pretty much linux...
03:54:20tucemiuxthey have an installer for devices but they dont have a packaged app for linux :-(
03:54:57tucemiuxsudo apt-get install rockbox −−-> didnt work :-(
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03:55:34krazykitright. you have to compile it
04:01:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:01:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:11:56[Saint]JdGordon: I've tried looking at the code regarding it, but couldn't see anything obvious. is there any reason why the touch area "none" fires immediately and doesn't wait to see if it's a long or short press?
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06:17:10JdGordonoff the top of my head... shuoldnt be
06:19:56JdGordonpossibly because of the returncode
06:20:04JdGordonit returns ACTION_TOUCHSCREEN
06:21:09JdGordon[Saint]: in skin_parser.c find the list for "none" and change it to ACTION_NONE
06:21:23JdGordonviewvc really shuold show line numbers
06:21:47[Saint]right, I'll have a poke if WOL is nice to me. thanks.
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07:18:15pixelma<JdGordon> viewvc really shuold show line numbers <- it does in the "annotate" view
07:20:02JdGordonyeah, but that view is hard to read
07:20:58pixelmareally? The only trouble I found is with very long svn user names that get split by the line number column
07:21:21JdGordoni hate the alternate line colouirng
07:22:53JdGordon bah
07:23:40JdGordonah, no.. thats backwards
07:23:55JdGordonZagor: any chance of updating viewvc?
07:24:05JdGordonWe'll probably need to for git anyway I guess :)
07:25:44JdGordondoes viewvc even support git?
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07:35:36wtachiJdGordon: no; gitweb or cgit are often used instead
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08:55:36sideralbluebrother: I don't think your statement regarding ID3 not storing the codepage is correct. ID3v2.3 supports ISO-Latin-1 and UCS-2, and ID3v2.4 additionally supports UTF-8
08:58:19pixelmasome people still use ID3 v1 which is why the setting for the default codepage is still there (I didn't read bluebrother's post yet though)
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09:00:05sideralpixelma: this is re:,28214.msg182105.html#msg182105
09:00:06pixelmasideral: and isn't it the _playlist.control file that you are referring to in your post? ;)
09:00:39sideralpixelma: I
09:00:55sideralpixelma: I think that stores the playlist, but not the resume info
09:01:58pixelmayeah, bluebrother's post should probably be refined but isn't completely wrong AFAIK
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09:15:31amiconnThe resume point is stored in nvram (which is just the /.rockbox/nvram.bin on targets without some form of actual nvram) in binary form
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09:19:25amiconn.playlist_control stores the current playlist, but in a special way: It stores the "build instructions" for the playlist
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09:20:56*JdGordon has an old patch somewhere to store the resume info into the .playlist_control and use that format for bookmarks
09:21:01JdGordonif anyone wants to finish it :)
09:21:23JdGordonFS #9407
09:21:25fs-bluebot bookmarks overhaul (patches, new)
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09:26:01amiconnJdGordon: Using a common format sounds useful, but I'd rather keep the resume info in nvram on targets which have that.
09:27:56sideralJdGordon: would that also fix the bug where resume on startup resumes the wrong file when the previously played file has been removed since last boot? (just recently ran into this again)
09:28:13amiconnIt's both safer (in case battery runs out before the next buffering cycle) and saves a bit of battery due to the saved write on *every* buffering cycle
09:28:29amiconnsideral: No it wouldn't
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09:29:11amiconnThat's something that cannot be fixed with the way resume currently works (storing just playlist position and position within the track)
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09:29:34amiconnBut changing that would make things a whole lot slower, which is not wanted
09:29:37sideralCan't seem to find this bug on Flyspray. I thought I had seen it there, but maybe I just saw it mentioned in the forums
09:29:37n1si wonder if we couldn't just store the name of the file to resume and if the resume position points to a different file, just fail
09:30:52sideralWell, checking whether the playlist track referenced by the resume info still exists shouldn't be that slow?
09:31:17amiconnThere is no track reference
09:31:46sideralThere's a playlist index −− and doesn't the playlist just store track references?
09:31:51amiconn.playlist_control has the instructions how to rebuild the playlist (which will be different if files are missing or added)
09:31:59amiconnnope - as I already mentioned
09:32:31sideralmaybe store the CRC of the playlist in NVRAM and compare that?
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09:32:37n1sbut we could just store a filename or somesuch and check if we ended up in the same place
09:33:03amiconnIt depends a bit on how the playlist is built. For dirplay, the current system is really efficient, as it's just a single line
09:33:26sideralWhy is the playlist stored in this fashion? Which use case does this enable?
09:34:40sideralIn which case? multi-thousand-track playlists?
09:35:06n1sit also adds an obscure feature, if you add dirs to the playlist and later add files to them the new files will be picked up
09:35:30amiconnThe difference already starts to show at a few dozen tracks
09:35:40amiconnIt's also very memory efficient
09:35:59amiconnThe in-memory playlist stores no file names either
09:36:32amiconnIf you'd ever seen the hilarious playlist loading speed of the old archoses' OF, you'd know what I mean
09:38:00sideralHmm. Maybe we should just store a file ID (FAT cluster number, dircache pointer, or whatever unique we have available) with the resume info and verify that
09:38:48[Saint]Would anyone mide if I went around and unified the various units in the settings menus? What I mean is, some settings (resume values I'm thinking of in particular) have preset values to choose from like 0, 5, 10, 15 seconds etc., whereas others have a full range 1,2,3,4,5,6~seconds etc.
09:39:12 Nick kugel_ is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
09:39:40sideralSaint: Don't know, I felt it kind of makes sense for the different rewind types
09:40:03[Saint]not if you want, say, 4 seconds...and the nearest choice is 5
09:40:12[Saint]it wouldn;t hurt to add the "missing" values.
09:40:38[Saint]I don't want to take any values away, just add more.
09:41:09sideralSaint: Perhaps. The only counterargument I can think of is that long settings list can be inconvenient, especially when using the setting in the quickscreen
09:41:37[Saint]It seems to be ok for the settings that use it presently.
09:42:18JdGordonhaha good luck with that!
09:42:55[Saint]I just don't see the point in the increments being fashioned as such. It's ok in the upper rangers (well, less annoying but not ok). but in the lower numbers it's quite annoying I find.
09:43:27sideralAlright Saint, I'm not against this
09:43:33n1syeah, these arbitrary numbers are a bit weird
09:43:48[Saint]1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,15,20,25 would help to keep it smaller.
09:44:15JdGordoncome up with a ui to change the setting chooser screens step size dynmically
09:44:46[Saint]why does it need to be dynamic?
09:46:19n1swe have list acceleration so getting your desired value shouldn't be a problem anyway
09:46:38*[Saint] nods.
09:47:09sideralamiconn: What's the NVRAM space limit, and how close to it are we?
09:47:16[Saint]I just noticed it today that some setting let you set the values to <whatever>, and others only offer you choices of 5 second increments.
09:48:53JdGordonsideral: 40 bytes and we are using it all iirc
09:49:18[Saint]0~9 in one second increments, 10~60 in 5 second increments and 60~120 in 30 second increments should help to a: keep the lists smaller, and b: allow for finer adjustment in the lower ranges.
09:49:34[Saint]0~120 in one second increments might be a little excessive.
09:49:49JdGordonhence the dynamic staement before
09:50:23[Saint]that's not really dynamic though. It'd still be a fixed list.
09:50:27JdGordonthere is actually room for bin/ram savings by making all those settings not arbitrary
09:51:12n1s[Saint]: i don't see why 0-120 in 1s increments is a problem
09:51:53[Saint]n1s: Nor do I really ;) It was a "keep people happy" suggestion.
09:52:06n1sscrew 'em!
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09:53:06[Saint]I'll add it to my list of things to poke at when I get home.
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10:52:33amiconnsideral, JdGordon: NVRAM total size is 44 bytes on the archos recorders (v1, v2, fm). 8 bytes are used as header + crc, and we're using 26 bytes worst case atm, i.e. 10 bytes are free (at least, depending on the actual target)
10:54:08amiconnThe optional components being tuner (only for recorder fm, 4 bytes) and dircache (only for 8 MB modded archoses, 4 bytes)
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10:54:40sideralamiconn: Thanks. Good to know there's still space.
10:55:00sideralI also wanted to add another setting to NVRAM: :)
10:55:27sideralwhich browser (file vs DB) was last bound to the select key in the WPS
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10:55:44sideralI wan
10:56:09sideralI find it annoying that it resets to file browser after each reboot
10:56:13amiconnI don't see why this would need to be in nvram
10:57:04sideralI thought config.cfg is for user-configurable settings only, not for persistent runtime state, which belongs to NVRAM?
10:57:27amiconnThere are two kinds of settings which should (or even must) go into nvram: Stuff that changes really often (saving the conversion to ascii and the disk write) and stuff that's needed really early in the boot process, before disk settings are being read (that applies to car adapter mode)
10:58:28amiconnAnyway, storing which browser was last active needs just one byte
10:58:41sideralone bit, to be precise :)
10:59:02amiconnYeah, just you can only reserve nvram in byte steps
10:59:16sideralyes, saw that.
10:59:58sideraldo we make persistent whether radio or WPS was last active? could be another candidate. the the resume playback after reboot option could start the radio
11:00:25amiconnThe last active screen is stored already
11:00:34*amiconn doesn't use that feature though
11:02:11sideralI use WPS as the startup screen, and don't care to much about FM radio. So meh, I'll leave this to someone else to worry about :)
11:02:11*amiconn just starts in the file browser everytime
11:02:32sideralBTW, I'm not sure whether NVRAM restore would be portable to an ILP64 architecture. It assumes int is 4 bytes
11:03:11amiconnHitting one more button to resume (if I want just that) is not a big deal, however, loading the correct config *after* playback already started is - when switching car <-> home stereo <-> earphone
11:04:18B4gderthere are no IPL64 archs...
11:04:36amiconnAlso, afaik nvram is simulated
11:04:52B4gderyes, but code assuming int is 32 bits are... everywhere
11:06:03ZagorI doubt we'll see an IPL64 arch anytime soon
11:06:22B4gderright, there's no such in development right now
11:06:35Zagorand making one is just asking for trouble
11:06:50Zagorcompanies will avoid it for fear of problems
11:08:28B4gderbut otoh, MS did a misguided attempt to avoid problems by doing P64
11:11:22sideralAFAIK Intel's C compiler supports ILP64. But I have to admit I don't really care either :)
11:11:44Zagorsideral: compilers are easy. the enormous amount of code that assumes 32bit is not
11:14:29sideralGoogle turns up more users.. Oracle (UltraSPARC), Cray... But whatever. It just caught my eye that the NVRAM code hardcodes it
11:14:54B4gderI don't believe that
11:15:14B4gderbut then its not important
11:16:47Zagorhaving 64-bit general-purpose registers doesn't mean the C int is 64 bits
11:16:58Zagorit just mean longs are handled in a single register
11:17:04Zagorsuch as ultrasparc v9
11:17:21B4gderwikipedia claims there's special solaris port that is ILP64
11:17:48B4gderand "Unicos" running SILP64
11:17:50sideralThanks Zagor, I know that. I've just looked for implementations and users using ILP64
11:17:50B4gderwhere S is for short
11:18:23sideralI agree it's probably irrelevant since Alpha is dead
11:18:37Zagoralpha? :)
11:18:38B4gderAlpha was/is just LP64
11:18:46B4gderjust like the others
11:19:11sideralB4gder: not according to my memory
11:19:17B4gderthen read up and you'll see
11:19:47sideral −− first answer
11:20:02B4gderis not int
11:20:32B4gderand the answer says so too
11:20:54sideral"The two mostly widely used were ILP64 (for DEC Alpha ..."
11:20:56B4gderoh it claims it is ILP64, but that's wrong
11:22:08B4gderat least when you run tru64 or linux on them
11:22:29sideralOK. Maybe the post refers to OpenVMS :)
11:22:30B4gderor vms
11:22:40B4gderOpenVMS is LP64 as well
11:22:51B4gderthe post is just wrong
11:23:05sideralOK, thanks for the correction then.
11:23:27*B4gder builds and runs curl on all of these
11:23:40sideralAh, this looks more prominent, and supports your statement:
11:24:10sideralOops, what kind of domain is that?
11:24:28B4gdera lot of dots in the domain =)
11:24:35Zagorindeed :)
11:25:19sideralthat's better :)
11:27:34*B4gder commented the stackoverflow post now
11:37:09*[Saint] is plagued by the "scrollwheel buttons unresponsive until volume is changed via the scrollwheel for the first time after hold is disengaged" issue.
11:37:58sideralSaint: Soft hold?
11:38:10gevaertssideral: old ipod issue
11:38:39gevaertsOr maybe all wheels, not sure
11:38:42[Saint]not *all* ipods suffer from it, though.
11:39:44sideralI ran into a similar problem when experimenting with soft hold on the clip+. I fixed it with action_wait_for_release calls in the lock/unlock path in get_action_worker
11:40:06[Saint]I have Nano1G, Nano2G and $G Greyscale and Color/Photo...only the 4G-Color/Photo is giving me the troubles.
11:40:50sideralare any of these using soft hold, or do they have a hardware hold button?
11:41:03[Saint]they all have HW hold.
11:41:21sideralOK, then ignore me :)
11:42:15[Saint]Hmmm? what? who? ;)
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14:36:17JdGordonrasher: ping?
14:42:49JdGordonany script ninjas able to hel me with a *.lang issue?
14:44:43[Saint]WHat do you need to achieve?
14:45:26JdGordonnone of the langs have the voice string filled in for LANG_MODE. i want a script to copy the dest string to the voice thing
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14:51:33JdGordon36 langs have the string... too many to do manually :/
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15:10:13amiconnWhy should LANG_MODE have a voice string, given what it's used for? It's not voiced
15:10:39[Saint]it is in the FM screen, no?
15:10:42[Saint]or, should be.
15:12:07amiconnIt's in the FM screen's quickscreen
15:12:37[Saint]it's for this:
15:12:50[Saint]Aw! c'mon flyspray!
15:12:56*[Saint] grumbles about long links.
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15:14:13amiconnOn hwcodec voice is not possible in fm, because the mas is in recording mode during fm (in order to be able to record it)
15:18:32JdGordonthats nice...... its not like anyone actually cares about swcodec now is it?
15:19:44amiconnIt's just something that should be kept in mind when fiddling with it. It's also something that might change, because keeping the mas in recording mode is actually unnecessary (and wasteful) unless prerecording is in effect.
15:21:21JdGordonall the more reason to just dump the dest string as is
15:26:31[Saint]Buderim wants a ban
15:27:14JdGordondoes he *really*?
15:27:43[Saint]Well...he robably doesn't.
15:28:19CIA-17New commit by jdgordon (r30007): Fix FS #12158 - Make the "Mode: " line in the radio menu voice. ...
15:28:24[Saint]posts about candle making that are obviouslt spam in the themeing and customization section kinda deserve it, though.
15:29:20LloreanWhen I saw the thread topic I thought there was a 50/50 chance it was a legitimate thread about trying to make say, a slowly burning down candle as a progress bar. Sadly, it wasn't.
15:29:37JdGordonyou could easily do that though
15:29:46JdGordonbar+slider image
15:30:06LloreanDo we have vertical progress bars now?
15:30:12JdGordonfor months now
15:30:20LloreanHaven't really looked at recent theming stuff.
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15:32:37[Saint]Why would you need the Slider for this?
15:32:44CIA-17r30007 build result: All green
15:33:03JdGordonfor the flame to follow the burnning candle down
15:33:17[Saint](the slider makes it look weird IMO, with it's crazy offset of half of the slider image on both ends of the bar)
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15:48:34n1sdoes anyone care if i'd delete the STATICIRAM thing, i'm pretty sure building with the old toolchain doesn't work anymore and it's quite ugly
15:51:09kugeln1s: go for it
15:51:39kugelremove the old toolchain from while you're at it :)
15:52:58n1swell, it's probably an after freeze change so i'll wait untill then
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17:04:28sudomanhello, for some reason the "−−disable-werror" in the script isn't working as intended on a 64 bit Fedora 15 install.
17:04:52sudomanI'm using gcc 4.6.0
17:05:29sudomanI'm building from the 3.8.1 source release
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17:14:57n1ssudoman: that was added after the 3.8 release so you want to use a current version of from svn
17:15:28sudomann1s: ok. is there a snapshot of latest svn or do i have to download the whole thing
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17:16:24n1swe don't provide snapshots of svn but if you want to develop for rockbox you probably want to use the current code anyway
17:16:48n1sotherwise you can check out just the script
17:17:05sudomann1s: ok thanks :)
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17:57:58kugelgevaerts: are you going to review FS #12159?
17:57:58fs-bluebot GSoC/Buflib: Remove direct audiobuf accesses (patches, new)
17:58:53kugelit's really an intermediate patch anyway, it's all going to replaced by buflib
17:58:58gevaertskugel: I'll have a look at the bits I understand tonight
18:00:04kugelif i find some batteries I can test it on hwcodec :)
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19:02:25pixelmaI don't like the blindly copying of the dest string to the voice string, if translators should actually look at it, I think it would have been better if it had been kept empty
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19:02:44pixelmafor a chance that it shows up when running genlang
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19:03:21pixelmaand what amiconn said, could have been a use case for a excluding/including by feature
19:05:49n1spixelma: i don't think it does show up in genlang
19:06:24pixelmawell yes, I seem to remember that well - but now it wouldn't even have a chance
19:06:40pixelmaremember it too
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19:42:20amiconnBagder/ Zagor: ping
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20:42:24byteframeI have my music on an sd card ("<microsd1> in rockbox). I assume my playlists will still need to be in the "Playlists" folder on the root of the internal memory. So will I have to suffix each entry in the playlists with "/<microsd1>/"?
20:45:33n1sthey don't need to be in the playlists dir
20:46:31n1sbut if you want a playlist on the internal storage with tracks on the µSD you ned to *pre*fix with /<microsd1>/, yes
20:46:38byteframen1s, yes, but might it be needed to have them display in the "playlists" menu option?
20:46:48byteframeprefix yes :)
20:47:32n1sbyteframe: by default , yes. You can change the (hidden) setting for where the playlists shown in the "playlists" menu are loaded from
20:48:13byteframeOh. Well, since the sd might not always be present Ill just keep it as default.
20:48:29byteframen1s, proceeding to hopefully fix a 16gb sd, and do all this. Thanks.
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21:05:20LearAAC gapless (lead trim, to be exact) seems to be off a bit. I'll upload a patch in a bit, but I guess we want that in for 3.9?
21:08:49Thra11_Hello. I'm trying to put some music on for the first time, but it just sits there with, "Building database... 368 found" (There are 32 mp3 files in a directory within .rockbox)
21:09:26gevaertsThra11_: why within .rockbox?
21:10:10gevaertsThere's a known bug with database initialisation if there are no audio tracks found, and .rockbox is excluded from the search by default (there's a database.ignore file in there)
21:10:17Thra11_gevaerts, oops I should really learn to read
21:10:53Thra11_gevaerts, I read, "strongly suggested not to place them in the /.rockbox folder" without the "not"
21:11:03*Thra11_ facepalm
21:11:19gevaertsright :)
21:15:47Thra11_Awesome. works perfectly as soon as the problem of the idiot user is removed :)
21:18:29kugelLear: the patch would look better without the "// printf" lines :)
21:19:17LearYou did read "Also, there are a few commented printf:s (that were useful during debugging) that should be removed before commit."? :)
21:24:22kugelLear: no, I just like grumping
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21:28:02*Buschel finally has a VM installed that fully utilizes all (virtual) CPUs
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21:35:42LearWell, I can't hear any more gaps now.
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23:55:51amiconnBagder: Now has another bug. The binsize table shows the new revision (and the download page has it too), but the build time +score table doesn't update anymore
23:56:16Bagderzagor is working on that

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