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#rockbox log for 2011-06-19

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08:18:19[Saint] there not some magic define that can be used that can make two seperate disks appear as one? HAVE_MULTIVOLUME(?)
08:18:30*[Saint] is thinking of possible solutions for this guy:,28228.msg182149.html#msg182149
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09:32:47*[Saint] summons JdGordon
09:36:13pixelmathe two separate disks as one isn't so simple
09:37:59[Saint]Yeah, I didn't necessarily think it was simple...but, is it *possible*?
09:38:57[Saint]It's more effort than I'm prepared to dive into to help a guy that could just as easily get used to using the just sparked my curiosity
09:39:39amiconnThere are numerous fundamental problems with such an approach
09:40:20*amiconn rather prefers two disks to appear as two disks, with all actions clearly defined
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09:40:59[Saint]Oh, so do I...but "forum guy" eveidently doesn't, for whatever reason.
09:41:25[Saint]For some reason he wants to be able to access internal storage and microSD from one location, using the filebrowser.
09:41:34[Saint]and that's the only way I can think of doing it.
09:42:23amiconnIf you blend two filesystems, several questions arise: (1) What happens if both filesystems contain a file with the same name? (2) If you create a new file or dir, where is it created?
09:42:43amiconn(3) What's the free space of such a construction?
09:43:12amiconn(4) How do you move a file or dir from one of the blended file systems to the other?
09:43:17pixelma[Saint]: some read maybe
09:44:28amiconnMost of these aren't relevant for read-only filesystems, but in rockbox we're dealing with rw
09:44:39[Saint]1: would almost certainly have to == "re-write existing", 2: the potential "sane" answer would be fill the internal storage first and using removable storage as "overflow"...3: pass, 4: pass.
09:45:01pixelmawhy is 2 sane?
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09:45:09pixelmaor your solution to it
09:46:10[Saint]Hmmm, it seemed so as I ran it through my head the first time. But I can se several problems with that also.
09:46:15amiconn(1) has nothing to do with writing. I mean which file is used when a file with the same name already exists on both fs's?
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09:46:38amiconnOh, and USB will become real fun with such an approach
09:47:15amiconnActually it's not possible to present it that way through USB with MSD
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09:49:21[Saint]Does the way it's presented via USB matter? Is it not just the way the device "sees" it that's important? (I admit I'm missing the bigger picture here almost certainly)
09:50:41[Saint]s/the device/Rockbox/
09:50:51amiconnThe way it's presented via USB matters insofar as it's easy to create case (1) that way
09:51:12[Saint]Ah, right.
09:51:24amiconnFinally, what would be the advantage of creating an imprecise view of the filesystems?
09:52:36pixelmae.g. making playlist from your PC without having to add <microSD>/ or somesuch
09:52:52[Saint]None, for myself. Or most others. I was mostly curious if I was correct in thinking there was a way it could either be done/could possibly be done to point the guy on the forums in some direction other than "No, just use the Database".
09:54:04[Saint]Understanding his reason for not wanting to use the Database might help I suppose, but there's evidently not a lot that can be done about it.
09:54:41amiconnYou don't have to add <microSD1>/ afaik.
09:55:29amiconnIirc it tries both filesystems. What definitely works is the other way, i.e. cutting path element sfrom the beginning until the track is found
09:56:08amiconnThis is for supporting both windows (where the playlists usually contain the drive letter) and linux (where absolute paths contain the mount point)
09:59:07pixelmano, it doesn't add <microSD> - but it would strip it, so it works in one way but not the other
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10:12:46[Saint]JdGordon: (logs) chaining ACTION_TOUCHSCREEN to ACTION_NONE in skinparser.c for the "none" touch area breaks skin parsing when the area "none" is defined in the skin.
10:13:13[Saint]Perhaps I took you too literally?
10:15:07n1si think the playlist code trying to add the <microSD> would be nice
10:15:23n1si thought it did but then tried on my fuze
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10:44:15*amiconn has an idea how to improve playlist behaviour on multivolume targets
10:46:11amiconnThe logic that cuts path components from the beginning shold be modified so that (1) it doesn't cut existing mount points, as these probably were inserted on purpose (this is easy, as no PC system uses < and > in paths), and (2) it tries to add the moint point the playlist resides on
10:47:09amiconnThe latter would ensure that playlists created on PC on an MMC/SD and stored on it will work in rockbox
10:48:13pixelmaI believe that works already (if the playlist is stored on the external card)
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11:09:07bluebrother[Saint]: that guy _can_ access both volumes from the same location: from the file browser :)
11:09:19bluebrotheror from the database.
11:09:47[Saint]Well, yes ;) but he wants to enter the filebrowser, and see all folders in one location.
11:09:53[Saint] idea why, but...yeah.
11:10:24[Saint]pointing out to him that the filebrowser *is* one location...seemed a little smartassed, even for me :P
11:10:30bluebrotherI don't even understand why this should be that important. It's useful in like cases with overlay filesystems of Linux live CDs so you can modify the read only content of it.
11:10:40bluebrotherbut for a media player? Why is that important?
11:10:53[Saint]No idea. He doesn't seem to want to elaborate.
11:11:11bluebrotheron Windows you have this "one location" called "My Computer". And you still have drive letters below that.
11:11:47[Saint]From what I can gather, he wants the filebrowser to behave like the Database.
11:12:01[Saint]When asked why the Database isn't appropriate, elaboration.
11:12:03bluebrotherthen he's out of luck.
11:12:21bluebrotherbesides, if it's that important he really should give a good reason why it's that important. Or post a patch :)
11:13:14pixelmabluebrother: I sometimes wish that too if I first fill the internal storage and then the card. I can't fit my whole collection on either so I have to select something - doing it once for the internal then a second time for the card and I may notice that I'd like a second album from the same artist that just didn't fit on the internal. Now it would be nice if I could see them in one place
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11:14:33pixelmawithout having to move stuff around. I know I should be able to do that with the database but didn't get around to replicate the structure I'd like with the tagnavi format
11:14:49pixelmait's not that important to me but I can see his reasons
11:16:12bluebrotherpixelma: I'm not saying that idea is unreasonable. But if he claims that to be "very important" then he really needs to explain things. What's the problem with splitting up at some defined point? Or not using the database for this case? You can't do that on a normal PC, so you will run into the same issue there.
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11:22:27bluebrotherany thoughts on making the manual default to a single page for HTML output? That page gets quite big so I kinda like having it smaller.
11:22:39bluebrotherbut the searchability argument definitely counts
11:24:27bluebrother(gets 1.3MiB for h120 for me)
11:25:05pixelmaI can't even imagine how long that page would be... and last I looked at least Firefox had problems rendering such pages - after a certain point all you saw was black
11:25:40bluebrotherworks fine for me locally.
11:25:52pixelmamaybe we could implement a google search box somehow, prefilled with ?
11:26:41bluebrotherhmm. Does Google allow searching in a specific subfolder of a website?
11:26:46pixelmaI don't like working with long web pages, it also needs to load everything and that can take a while
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11:27:23bluebrotheryes, loading takes a bit. And imagining loading that huge page over a slow connection isn't too nice either.
11:27:49bluebrotheranother option would be to build the manual twice: a single page version and another with the current paging.
11:28:27pixelmaor maybe leaving out the screenshots would help a lot already (only giving a link that you could click when interested)
11:28:42pixelmafor the single page version
11:29:14bluebrotherthe html file itself is still huge
11:29:57bluebrotherAdvanced search with Google doesn't let me restrict searching to a specific subfolder on the domain.
11:34:00pixelmathat's with "site:" (or =, can't remember)?
11:35:30bluebrothersite: does restrict to a domain
11:37:07bluebrotherhmm, seems that respects a path.
11:39:08bluebrotherso we might be able to do this with a bit of HTML in the header and js
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11:40:23pixelmamaybe a nice solution :)
11:41:05*bluebrother tries
11:41:05CIA-27New commit by bluebrother (r30013): Add script to spellcheck the manual LaTeX sources. ...
11:41:10CIA-27New commit by bluebrother (r30014): Manual: Add version information to page footer.
11:41:14CIA-27New commit by bluebrother (r30015): Manual: Simplify Makefile htlatex call a bit.
11:41:16pixelmabluebrother: do you have an example one page html that I coul look at from here (stressing the android browser or so ;) )
11:41:28bluebrotherI can upload one
11:41:41bluebrotherany specific manual you'd like to try?
11:43:17pixelmaa smaller screenshot one would be a better start, if you have an H1x0 already, that's ok
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11:45:35CIA-27r30013 build result: All green
11:48:57CIA-27r30015 build result: All green
11:50:10bluebrotherhmm. r30014 wasn't built?
11:50:56bluebrotherand dev.cgi only shows r30015 in the delta table but nowhere else?
11:51:11pixelmaI believe there's a small window for "collecting" stuff
11:52:03*bluebrother clears browser cache
11:52:17pixelmathe build table seems to only go to r30006
11:53:08bluebrotherthat's a new feature then, isn't it?
11:53:24pixelmaand the delta table only starts with that?
11:54:00pixelmalooks like it's not completely fixed yet still ;)
11:54:32bluebrothermaybe some changelog for the build system would be nice?
11:55:43pixelmaI thought it was in SVN, in a module that's just not shown on the frontpage, like www or so. But I'm not sure
11:55:56bluebrotherpixelma: upload finally finished:
11:58:03pixelmanot as long as I was afraid of but loading takes a while
11:58:56bluebrothertried it using a mobile connection myself. Takes a while and transfers a notable amount of data.
11:59:16bluebrotherso for mobile devices it's not that great.
11:59:28bluebrotherespecially since you usually don't need all chapters.
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12:03:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:05:30bluebrotherhmm, but how include custom HTML code in the header with htlatex?
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13:19:00pixelmabluebrother: for some reason this single page html manual isn't handled very well in the android browser with regards to reflowing the page which usually works fine. It's not so important as the line length isn't too long so that I don't need to scroll horizontally at a decent font size (except for the pictures which are centered)
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13:50:07mac9416Hi! Okay, I have a friend who wants an iPod, probably Nano 5g or 6g. I hate Apple and want her to get something she can Rockbox instead. Can anyone recommend a comparable MP3 player? (FYI, Nano 6g is the only MP3 player I've ever owned so I've never had a chance to use Rockbox −− I'm kinda shooting in the dark.)
13:55:00pixelmaI guess a Sansa Clip+ would be an option, size factor is comparable to the Nano 6G although the display is a huge difference (monochrome, no touch screen) - instead physical buttons and a microSD slot
13:55:38pixelmathings I thought of immediately but it depends a lot on what is wanted or not
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13:57:51mac9416Okay. I'm not sure size is the biggest deal. Really anything will do that is comparable to any recent iPod...
13:58:01mac9416I'm going through the list of Rockboxable players now.
13:58:24mac9416For example, the Archos 6000 has some aesthetic issues. ;-)
13:58:40gevaertsIt does not!
13:59:01bluebrotherbuy a used nano2g?
14:00:37mac9416gevaerts, girls are funny about things like that. :-P
14:00:57mac9416bluebrother, that _might_ be an option. It's a little oldish though.
14:00:59bluebrotherthen buy a used mini2g in pink and CF mod it
14:01:16*bluebrother likes the mini better than the nano because of its physical size
14:01:45mac9416Okay, I'll give it a look...
14:01:51mac9416Pink may be a bit much.
14:02:42gevaertsIf you want "new" and "looks like an ipod", I'm not sure you have many options
14:03:00bluebrotherdepends on your friend I guess ;-)
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14:03:08bluebrothera Fuze might be an option too.
14:03:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:03:37gevaertsIf you go for a fuze, make sure it's a fuze, not a fuze+
14:03:40AlexPSomething that is new and looks like an ipod is an ipod I'm afraid
14:03:44mac9416Yeah, the Fuxe is nice-looking.
14:03:56AlexPSomething that is new, good, looks nice but not like an ipod is a fuze
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14:03:59mac9416gevaerts, thanks for the tip. That would be bad.
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14:04:30mac9416"Video MP3 Player with FM Radio" Now we're talking.
14:04:44*bluebrother wonders when MP3 became a video format
14:05:08AlexPbluebrother: About the same time you could get HD sound
14:05:22pixelmano colour sound?
14:05:29AlexPthat too :)
14:05:30pixelmaor color even
14:05:31mac9416"Video/MP3 Player" would have been betters.
14:05:35bluebrothercatch the digital flow!
14:05:58*[Saint] wonders...
14:06:01bluebrother(below the Rockbox Tower bridge :)
14:06:03[Saint]Is a Fuze still "new"?
14:06:13AlexPStll available anyway
14:06:23bluebrotherand remember, it's _not_ Fuse.
14:06:32[Saint]You'd be *bloody* lucky to find one for sale that's NIB.
14:06:48[Saint]Most are reconditioned now.
14:06:53[Saint]"new in box"
14:06:54bluebrotherNative Interface Builder?
14:07:25bluebrotheramazon has one (not sold by amazon directly, but well)
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14:08:00bluebrotherand even still ships some:
14:08:15[Saint]mac9416: that's a Fuze+
14:08:20gevaertsmac9416: I'd recommend playing around with the sim a bit before deciding if you've never used rockbox before
14:08:56mac9416gevaerts, okay. I know someone with a Rockboxable MP3 player. I'll see what I can do.
14:09:11mac9416[Saint], this one?
14:09:11bluebrotherthefirst one is a fuze
14:09:18mac9416Sorry about the long URL.
14:09:25mac9416Ebay's fault.
14:09:28bluebrotherat least on the page ebay displays in my browser
14:09:40[Saint] took me to the middle of the list when I first clicked it. Sorry.
14:09:46[Saint]I refreshed and it "just worked".
14:10:21gevaertsmac9416: that would be ideal of course, but we also have a simulator, or "sim", that lets you get a feel for it on a PC
14:10:38bluebrotherso it shouldn't be too hard to distinguish them :)
14:10:56mac9416gevaerts, ah, that's perfect! I shall give it a try.
14:11:18mac9416Hmmm, can Rockbox do FM or will I lose that feature?
14:11:38[Saint]It can, yes.
14:11:49[Saint]Provided the player has the hardware, of course ;)
14:11:57[Saint](Which the Fuze does)
14:15:52*bluebrother grumbles
14:16:15bluebrotherwhat on earth is htlatex doing here? Copying _some_ of the source images only? wtf?
14:17:41gevaertshm, some reports on the forum about a 2007 LBA48 build for the Player not working properly
14:19:05[Saint]blast from the past...
14:19:40gevaertsI bet they did something wrong
14:22:10[Saint]bootloader missmatch?
14:22:42gevaertsOn a Player?
14:23:12pixelmathen it wouldn't work for the rest of it (as I understood)
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15:14:33*pixelma wonders about - lines 44-68, especially 55 and 68
15:15:13pixelmalooks unnecessary to check for remote lcd inside the h110/h300 pad defines... or am I missing something
15:15:21pixelmait doesn't hurt though
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15:36:00bluebrotherpixelma: finally got somewhere:
15:36:38bluebrotherthis htlatex is really a pain. Haven't done that much try and error since quite a while
15:37:41[Saint]Start making themes ;)
15:38:56bluebrothernah, there are enough other tasks on my list :)
15:39:10*bluebrother tries to convince [Saint] to work on Rockbox Utility :P
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15:42:50*Buschel does not find any voice file on the daily build page
15:42:59Buschelare there any?
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16:10:25bluebrotherpixelma: updated a bit to put some stuff "in" the crosslinks header
16:11:02bluebrotherseems to work fine so far though I've only tested with FF4 yet.
16:21:50[Saint]are the images supposed to show?
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16:22:16[Saint]under 3.1.1 "the player's controls"
16:22:48[Saint]bluebrother: ^
16:23:45pamauryis STORAGE_GET_INFO actually ever used ?
16:24:24pamauryah yes, it's defined in config.h, sorry
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16:26:23[Saint] FF just displays "pic" and Chrome just gives the "image missing" thumnail, I guess not.
16:26:43pamauryarg, am I mistaken or is sd.c and storage.c assuming that there is not SD + MMC target ? How can I implement card_get_info_target for both ????
16:27:59pamauryI think storage.c should implement card_get_info_target in the usual way: define if only one storage subsystem is used and dispatch otherwise
16:34:21gevaertspamaury: I probably indeed didn't consider SD + MMC. Should be easy to fix though...
16:35:31pamauryMy question is: shouldn't we do it like other storage functions ?
16:36:19pamaurythat means:
16:36:19pamaury- implement card_get_info_target if multiple storage is present
16:36:19pamaury- rename card_get_info_target to sd_card_get_info for sd and mmc_gcard_get_info for mmc (for example)
16:36:28pamaurydoes that sound reasonable ?
16:36:31CIA-27New commit by miipekk (r30016): Removed redundant copy of tagcache master_header structure stored in ...
16:36:56pamauryOk, do you have time to do it or should I write a patch that you can review ?
16:37:27pamauryactually, can you run a test build on all target using the build server ?
16:38:02gevaertsI still have a headache, so I'd rather not try to code right now
16:38:25gevaertsNo, the build system doesn't support that
16:40:06CIA-27r30016 build result: All green
16:40:57pamauryIs storage_spinup_time() actually used ?
16:42:02pamaurystorage_spinup_time() calls mmc_spinup_time() which is not implement and strangely enough, it's commented out for SD !
16:43:33gevaertsIt should be commented out for mmc as well
16:43:49gevaertsThat one only makes sense for spinning disks
16:44:06pamaurythere is also mmc_spin
16:44:14pamauryand mmc_spindown
16:44:18gevaertsNobody ever noticed because there currently is no mmc multidriver target
16:44:32pamauryfor sd there are implemented in sd.c but for mmc that's driver specific
16:44:54pamauryI propose to remove them for sd and mmc, does that sound ok ?
16:46:11gevaertsI don't mind
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17:15:31bluebroth3rpixelma, AlexP: last version. Any concerns about this? Since I'd like to have that finished committing it might be a good idea. bluebrother/rockbox-buildch3.html">
17:16:15AlexPbluebroth3r: Sorry, I've missed the context - what am I looking at? :)
17:16:32bluebroth3rthe only drawback is that it requires JavaScript, but I haven't found a better solution
17:16:46bluebroth3rAlexP: search field in the multipage HTML manual directing to google
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17:17:08AlexPah yes, just spotted it
17:17:18bluebrotherI've also added the Rockbox logo at the top while at it :)
17:17:29AlexPGood idea, it is impossible to search for stuff in the html one at the moment
17:17:41AlexPYes, looks good
17:18:46bluebrotherhtlatex is really a beast :(
17:19:10bluebrotherhaven't figured how to get the JavaScript embedded into the generated website. Well.
17:20:05[Saint]it's not *impossible*, but...awkward. I usually click "Contents" and search from there.
17:20:22[Saint]as long as you know the correct terminology, you _should_ find what you're looking for.
17:20:27[Saint]this is a much better solution though.
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17:21:11AlexPContents only helps if the thing you are searching for is a heading/subheading
17:21:34AlexPSo it isn't possible to search the manual that way, only the table of contents :)
17:21:45bluebrotheranother drawback will be that the google search index isn't necessarily up to date with the latest manual changes
17:22:24bluebrotheroh, and I removed some items from this crosslink bar at the top and bottom. Should be cleaner now.
17:22:33AlexPtrue, but it is better than nothing (along with the contents)
17:22:52bluebrotherthat's the only reason why I did the actual work :D
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17:28:15pixelmahmm, you'll be directed to the PDF then , right?
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17:29:40bluebrotherpixelma: depends on what Google does. Might happen, but we can't control that.
17:30:27pixelmaaha, it's just that then you have to search the PDF too. It's a good step ahead though, I like it :)
17:32:05bluebrotherit uses the base URL of the file for searching, so when starting it from my copy google will search my webspace. Which doesn't have any html manuals.
17:32:16bluebrotherthat might be another reason why you'll see pdf results
17:32:43pixelmaah, ok
17:33:52bluebrotherbut I didn't want to hard code fixed paths to the Rockbox server locations −− those can change.
17:34:31pixelmanice :)
17:34:39bluebrothernot that I expect that ...
17:35:16bluebrotherand when using locally it seems to redirect you to google, without restricting it to any domain. Which wouldn't work for a local copy anyway
17:43:44CIA-27New commit by bluebrother (r30017): Manual: add search box to HTML output. ...
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17:47:16CIA-27r30017 build result: All green
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17:56:06pamaurywhat is mmc_touched() ?
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18:01:33bertrikWould it make sense to declare a prototype for codec_main and plugin_start (currently we don't seem to have one)?
18:02:28bertrikI run a build with -Wmissing-prototypes once every while and I get warnings on those.
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18:04:44pamauryarggg, why so much code assume sd XOR mmc ?!!?
18:04:59bertrikHaving a declaration in some header file and including it in sources that use it, makes sure that everyone agrees on the same prototype. The linker can't tell the difference between two functions with a different set of arguments for example) and will happily link a call to a function with a different prototype (e.g. arguments)
18:08:08pamauryWould anyone be against adding a function to the storage layer to determine the subsystem of each drive (STORAGE_*). So that the code can ask "is drive X a ATA/SD/MMC/NAND drive ?"
18:10:59bertrikWhy does code need to know that?
18:11:32pamauryfor card_get_info
18:12:04pamaurysince I have SD + MMC, card_get_info has to handle both, how could it tell which drive one is sd and which one is mmc ?
18:13:07pamauryand the same problem arises in debug_menu.c which also assumes no such situation exist
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18:26:59*pixelma curses pictureflow's button action blob
18:27:52pixelmait's really hard to follow which target uses which, where exceptions are and especially why they are there for some targets
18:30:50pixelmalooks like it's basically all standard context for all plus an extra quit action - and some exceptions. There are vague memories in my head about the case of the Ondio, but I don't know about the other targets (H10 etc.)
18:30:56hobby16hi all, I want to debug on my Sansa Clip new firmwares (launching it with rolo). Is there a way NOT to connect and disconnect the USB cable each time you upload a new firmware version ?
18:31:38*[Saint] wrestles with pictureflow not being adapted to absolute point at the same time, and the guesse-work needed to navigate gridmode if you're unfamiliar with it.
18:33:03[Saint]hobby16: not without compiling your own build with the (still experimental) patch to enable USB on these devices
18:33:39gevaertsEven then
18:34:03pixelmacopying the new firmware file to microSD and then to interenal (though that's probably not very convenient too)
18:34:26[Saint]Oh, yes...derp.
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18:56:45pixelmadoes someone have an M:Robe100 plus remote and/or knows if the remote works?
19:06:55bertrikhobby16, when debugging, you can place many .sansa files on the clip in one go (say each with a different compiled setting) and then rolo them one by one
19:07:22bertrikon the clip+ you can place them on the microsd card
19:08:44hobby16@Saint, GREAT, I compile the firmware already (testing Lua interpreter => hence the need to reload the often the lua script to debug. Can you tell me with patch I must apply please ?
19:10:48hobby16@Gertrik, in fact, I use just one rockbox.sansa, but I program in Lua, so I need to change a text script very often to debug (and I need to do it on the target after the script has been debugged on the simulator)
19:10:50bertrikclipv1 already has USB enabled
19:11:40bertrikcan't you develop the lua scripts on the desktop first? or perhaps in the simulator?
19:13:45hobby16@bertrik, here what I want to do 0)edit Lua script 1)connect Sansa in drive mode 2) upload my Lua script (ascii file) 3)disconnect drive mode and connect in USB power mode 4)launch the Lua script 5)script to debug => restart at 0)
19:14:02hobby16And all without disconnecting the USB cable
19:14:56bertrikI recommend to do the main development on the pc in the simulator, then fine-tune and check it on target
19:15:04hobby16diner now, see you later. appreciate any patch suggested. Thanks again
19:15:43hobby16@bertrik, indeed, I develop in the Simulator but still need to debug on target (I2C interface)
19:23:20CIA-27New commit by amiconn (r30018): Optional dual-boot support in iAudio X5 and M5 bootloader, based on FS #5289. ...
19:24:56AlexPamiconn: Was that a bug fix? :)
19:25:13AlexPAnyway, would you be wanting to do a new bootloader release?
19:25:27amiconnNo, but it wasn't a feature change for main rockbox either
19:25:34amiconnIt's all bootloader code
19:25:35AlexPI know, was a joke :)
19:26:02AlexPBut are you thinking of putting a dual-boot bootloader out?
19:26:12AlexPIt might be nice for the release if we can manage it
19:26:37amiconnThe question is whether I should do a bootloader release along with the main release, or wait and then add wake-up alarm support as well (which does require changes in main rockbox)
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19:26:46CIA-27r30018 build result: All green
19:27:27AlexPI guess wait and not make people update the bootloader twice
19:27:39amiconnThe dual boot bootloader also needs special support in rbutil. It is diffent from the single boot bootloader binary
19:30:16amiconnBoth pixelma and me can't use dual boot anyway. The OF doesn't seem to like SSDs (at least Photofast G-Monster V1 and V2)
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20:23:16sideralSlasheri: Does the fix you checked in also relate to the recently-added (and not just to the recently-played) DB query?
20:23:53sideralbecause I've seen misbehavior with recently-added recently, especially if commit couldn't complete w/o reboot
20:24:59Slasherisideral: yes
20:25:11Slasherithat should behave better as well
20:25:56sideralthat's great! one item less on my list of annoyances :)
20:26:54Slasheri:) do you have any other annoyances with the db? ;)
20:28:35sideralSlasheri: Yes, a couple :) Will you be around later tonight? I'm short on time right now
20:30:09Slasherisideral: great, just tell me when you are around
20:32:15sideralSlasheri: Cool. I should have some time after 10 or 11 p.m. CEST. If you cannot stick around, I'll shoot you an email
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20:43:27TheJewI just installed RockBox on my F40 Toshiba and when I try to convert the SAT files via Windows Media Player, Windows cannot see them in Windows Explorer. I am running Windows 7 64 bit, anyone have any ideas
20:43:46TheJewThe folders show upo where the SAT files would normally be but they are empty
20:44:16TheJewWhen I am plugged in with Gigabeat reoom they show up
20:44:28TheJewAnd rockbox, only have the problem with WMP
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20:56:23hobby16anyone has a solution for my USB problem ? (how to avoid disconnect & connect usb cable at each upload)
20:57:21*ukleinek didn't read about an USB problem and suggests to write to the mailing list
20:57:22gevaertsThe best solution probably is to learn to accept it
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21:43:40sideralSlasheri: still around? I'm back
21:43:56Slasherisideral: yes :)
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21:45:03sideralcool. OK, so I know of various database bugs and am working on various enhancements (more on that later if you want), but there are two bugs that classify as annoyances
21:45:52sideralThe major problem I have is that the tagtree browser responds unpredictably to changes to tagnavi conditions
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21:46:54sideralFor example, I have a query that shows only unplayed tracks. When I play a track (and make sure the DB is updated by causing an unbuffer event), one of three things happens:
21:47:49sideral(1) the change is reflected in the DB browser, but only after some time.
21:48:21sideral(2) after some time, the DB shows entirely bogus results
21:48:38pixelmahmm, my r30012 android build just skips through the song
21:48:50pamauryI'm highly confused, I have access to the fuze+ internal flash and it's...strange
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21:49:09sideralSlasheri: (3) or the DB just never reflects the change
21:49:50sideralSlasheri: I don't think the delayed index update is to blame, as I've implemented store-to-load forwarding in tagcache
21:50:03SlasheriHmm, is the thing 1) still relevant? I see there were some changes to the tag lookup so that tagcache should check the commit queue if new track statistics has not yet been updated to disk
21:50:59sideralYes, I implemented that, but that doesn't help the DB browser for some reason. It works perfectly well for the buffer/unbuffer events though, they always find the updated data now
21:51:22sideralThere seems to be some caching in tagtree that can become stale or even faulty
21:52:05Slasherisideral: hmm.. i just tried that today and for me, new data was immediately available in db browser after unbuffer event had occurred (data still in the queue)
21:52:52sideralThen you ran into case (1), but luckily "some time" was very short for you
21:53:23Slasheriinteresting :)
21:54:48Slasheridid you try to force the db browser to make a new query? (going backwards one step and then selecting the entry again)
21:55:20sideralYes, I tried that. Is that guaranteed to erase the previous results?
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21:55:51Slasheriit should erase previous results
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21:56:25Slasheriwhat tagcache settings did you have enabled? ram loading, dircache, maybe hibernated state on H1xx target?
21:57:45sideralram loading, dircache, autoupdate. No hibernation as far as I'm aware (target's a Clip+)
21:58:01sideralCase (2) is interesting as well. :) It caused some queries to return tracks that should never have appeared because of the tagnavi condition for example files from a directory not covered by the condition
21:58:25Slasheriok.. that could be target specific as well.. at least on iriver, there seems to be less problems than on other targets
21:58:28sideralHence my suspicion that it was using stale data from another query
21:58:59Slasherihmm, does the case 2) happen constantly?
22:01:14sideralIt used to. Currently I cannot seem to trigger it because it used to happen after autoupdate + DB reload, but for some reason the DB reload fails because the DB doesn't commit in the same session and requires a reboot. But the problem appeared some time after the DB reload, that is, immediately after the reload the DB appeared fine, including the newly added tracks
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22:02:43Slasheriinteresting.. that could memory corruption/overflow somewhere for example
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22:04:06sideralThat's a possibility
22:04:59sideralI had a suspicion that DB reload doesn't invalidate all cached query results, resulting in stale pointer accesses in tagtree
22:05:52sideralI can consistently trigger case (1) though
22:07:35sideralOK, let's move on to the second annoyance, shall we?
22:08:02Slasherithat could be possible in case 2
22:09:07Slasheribut i will do some debugging with case 1 as soon as i get one changelog import problem figured out.. now logf is staggering as i increased the buffer size over 100 kB
22:10:00sideralThanks! What is that changelog import problem, BTW?
22:10:07 Quit kevku (Remote host closed the connection)
22:10:23Slasheriit fails to import statistics from one single track
22:10:29Slasherino idea why, yet
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22:10:41sideraloh, nice :)
22:11:49sideralThe other annoyance is that tagnavi %sort and %strip clauses are consulted only for the first %format of a format group, and then applies to all %formats of the group.
22:12:05sideralI can see that %sort should be per-group, but %strip shouldn't
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22:13:24sideralI need %strip to be per-format to fix the more-than-two-digits-in-tracknumber-sorts-wrong bug once and for all :)
22:13:33 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Benjamin Disraeli)
22:14:34Slasherisideral: interesting, lets add that to the todo list as well ;) i think that should be considered as a bug
22:14:59sideralYeah. I'll come around and fix it eventually, unless you beat me to it again ;)
22:15:23sideralAny idea whether per-format %sort would make any sense?
22:17:24Slasherino idea, unless you figure out an example situation
22:18:53sideralThen we should document this properly and choke (into logf at least) when a subsequent %format of a group has a %sort directive
22:20:28sideralThere's another bug that I find somewhat annoying: FS #9093
22:20:29fs-bluebot Database initialization hangs if there's no music file on the player (bugs, assigned)
22:20:57pamauryhas anyone ever a "disk" where the sector size is 1536(=3*512) or more precisely a MBR with such sector size
22:21:02pamaury*ever seen
22:21:09sideralSlasheri: I don't understand the patch proposed by someone else, and my patch seems to be buggy as well
22:21:55sideralSlasheri: My patch makes autoupdate keep updating the DB forever, and I don't understand why, yet
22:25:15Slasherisideral: oh, that bug is still there..
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22:25:49Slasherisideral: i add that to my list as well :)
22:26:14sideralI'd like to see your list :)
22:27:03pixelmathat's what Slasheri said all years... ;)
22:27:36 Quit domonoky (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:27:41sideralSlasheri: If you're interested and have a few minutes left, I can give you a quick rundown of the DB-related projects I have in the queue, and their status
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22:28:06Slasherisideral: sounds interesting :)
22:29:44sideralFS #12132 −− I'll commit that after the freeze. I was unsure whether it broke the recently-added list, but that seems to have been unrelated, as you just have committed a fix :)
22:29:45fs-bluebot tagnavi: Support "basename" in formats and conditions; replace <Untagged> in track views (patches, new)
22:31:35Slasherisideral: that should be useful, i already looked that some time ago :)
22:31:55sideralI'll probably later add "numeric" sort order (as in the file browser) as a %sort directive to make that available when displaying file names.
22:32:16sideralThat could actually be a use case for per-format %sort directives ;) not sure yet
22:33:02Slasherinice :)
22:33:45sideralThere's also a patch on FS to allow %format being applied to <All tracks>, that should elide a few more displays of <Untagged> :)
22:34:10sideralFS #9613
22:34:11fs-bluebot Allow formatting of track names for the default <All Tracks> database menus (patches, unconfirmed)
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22:35:12sideralOK, the next project is to remember which browser WPS-Select was bound to (DB or file browser) across reboots
22:35:14Slasherigreat! i have plenty of those <Untagged> tracks as well ;)
22:35:50sideralbeing dropped in the file browser after reboot is a frequent annoyance for me
22:36:19sideralThen we have FS #12076
22:36:20fs-bluebot Autoresume feature can start from wrong offset due to resurrection of old runtime stats (bugs, assigned)
22:36:50sideralWhere we resurrect stale runtime data for tracks that are actually new
22:37:34sideralFor the next release, we'll just drop the fuzzy DB resurrection. After that, I'd like to reinstate it in a fixed version
22:38:06sideralI've experimented with the encoded-data length already, but that isn't sufficient to tell similar tracks apart
22:38:21sideralnext idea is to CRC the first 512 bytes of the encoded data
22:39:43Slasherihmm, so you would rely either the filename or CRC to match?
22:40:21Slasheri(in fact, filename also is a crc)
22:40:45sideralyeah, I noticed (I think you told me before)
22:41:14Slasheriso there is always a small risk for collissions
22:42:22sideralyeah, we already also look at the track length, and I'd add to that the encoded data CRC. Perhaps even as a mandatory match?
22:43:08sideralAdding the CRC also raises the question of how to deal with column inflation in the DB. I don't think it's a problem yet, but I have some ideas of how to compress the existing columns into fewer fields/bytes
22:44:39sideralNext: Looked at how %format conditions work, and noticed that they are parsed differently from filter conditions
22:44:49siderals/Looked/I looked/
22:45:37sideralThey don't support the "&" connective. Instead, a conjugation can be achieved by just enumerating clauses
22:46:00sideralI'd like to support "&" and also add "|", which I've added to filters already
22:46:37sideralStill with me Slasheri?
22:51:16siderals/conjugation/conjunction/ :)
22:52:17Slasherisounds interesting, but lets continue tomorrow :) now i have to go sleep ;)
22:53:15Slasheriand i just figured out what is causing the changelog import problem. it most likely is fast_readline()
22:53:43sideralSlasheri: cool :) get some good sleep, my list is still long ;)
22:54:21Slasherihehe, better to try :D
22:54:30sideralI likely won't have too much time tomorrow, but possibly later this week
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23:09:45amiconnSlasheri: There's still the oooold annoyance that db init never finishes if there are no audio tracks
23:11:34sideralamiconn: Yeah, we just discussed that. It's tracked as FS #9093, BTW
23:11:34fs-bluebot Database initialization hangs if there's no music file on the player (bugs, assigned)
23:12:48amiconnHmm, not as old as the FS# I closed today, actually
23:13:41sideralamiconn: Right. Kudos for not letting old stuff rot in FS :)
23:15:03amiconnThere's another old one, but I won't tackle this next. The rather annoying .talk bug on hwcodec is more important to fix (hopefully) before the release
23:15:24amiconnAnother old one for iAudio X5/M5 I mean
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23:34:13ruskiehmm is there a way to tell rockbox to shutdown a device after N-minutes? so I could put something to play and say shut it down after 20 minutes?
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23:40:37pixelmaruskie: search around our nice manual for "sleep timer"
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23:44:47*amiconn slaps kugel a bit
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23:45:40amiconnI found the cause for the non-working .talk clips. You said you restored the previous behaviour of mp3info(), but this isn't true
23:46:31amiconnYou turned mp3info() in a generic metadata info funcion, which tries to figure out the format first. Of course this breaks when dealing with .talk, as about the first thing it does is checking the extension
23:47:15amiconnmp3info() is for mp3 only, as its name implies (the struct with the same name, however, is generic these days - probably should be renamed)
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