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| 00:27:50 | Strife1989 | Anyone feel like checking a Vorbis file and seeing if it loads slowly for them? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1905158/4%20Future%20Masters.ogg |
| 00:28:43 | Strife1989 | On my iPod Video, using r30169, it takes a good 9 seconds to start playback on any track in the album. |
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| 00:43:57 | Poodlemastah | Just tried it on 30172 on my iPod classic, started in the normal 2-3 sec.. |
| 00:44:33 | * | Strife1989 nukes his settings file and retries. |
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| 00:49:59 | saratoga | embedded album art can make loading vorbis files messy |
| 00:50:46 | Strife1989 | 6 seconds with default settings. |
| 00:52:04 | | Join L-Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) |
| 00:54:33 | L-Strife89 | Any way to strip embedded AA in bulk? |
| 00:54:52 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:55:37 | kugel | saratoga: why? |
| 00:55:51 | saratoga | because Tremor is kind of stupid about it |
| 00:56:01 | saratoga | and its really, really hard to fix |
| 00:56:01 | | Quit Strife1989 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 00:56:51 | saratoga | it basically encodes the album art into about a million Ogg pages which have to be malloced and then parsed and then skipped before you can actually get to the audio |
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| 01:00 |
| 01:01:14 | * | L-Strife89 somehow thought that Rockbox would favor external AA over embedded. |
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| 01:14:15 | kugel | saratoga: IIRC someone said it's base64 encoded in vorbis comments? |
| 01:15:17 | kugel | but I also remember to have read that the FLAC style is also supported (which is like mp3 and aac, a plain dump of the image)) |
| 01:17:14 | kugel | RaaAoA doesn't work on 1.6 (anymore) |
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| 01:17:29 | kugel | not in the emulator at least |
| 01:20:26 | | Quit Horschti (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 01:25:09 | kugel | bluebroth3r: there's a problem with headphone detection |
| 01:25:37 | rasher | That's 3.6% of devices |
| 01:27:04 | | Quit GeekShadow (Quit: The cake is a lie !) |
| 01:29:06 | * | kugel couldn't care less about 1.6 |
| 01:29:19 | kugel | especially since we're not on the market |
| 01:31:33 | | Quit simonlnu (Quit: .) |
| 01:32:59 | saratoga | 2.0 or above sounds reasonable |
| 01:33:18 | kugel | I don't know why it's crashing, the same mechanism works on 2.1 |
| 01:33:50 | saratoga | hard to imagine many people interested in rockbox with old devices won't have hacked them with something newer by now |
| 01:33:59 | saratoga | firmware hacking seems to be popular with our users |
| 01:41:28 | kugel | the emulator dies as soon as I try to play music |
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| 01:44:58 | CIA-14 | New commit by kugel (r30173): Android: Change headphone detection to call into native. ... |
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| 01:47:38 | CIA-14 | r30173 build result: All green |
| 01:47:43 | Aevum | question about the clip plus. this is the place to ask ? |
| 01:48:13 | scorche | only if it is about rockbox ;) |
| 01:48:18 | Aevum | hehe |
| 01:48:25 | Aevum | remind me to send you a lollypop |
| 01:48:54 | | Quit GeekShadow (Client Quit) |
| 01:49:27 | Aevum | anyways. i read somewhere that the main issue with AAC support on the clip plataform was that the onboard memory is insufficient to run proper aac decoding |
| 01:49:53 | Aevum | is that still the case ? |
| 01:51:58 | Aevum | im awake that you're not paid or obliged to answer. but i would even appriciate a "i dont know" |
| 01:52:02 | Aevum | aware |
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| 01:52:53 | scorche | well, i dont know, but according to the majorchanges wiki page, there is "2011-04-18: Major rework of m4a parser to reduce memory consumption and enhance playability on low memory targets" |
| 01:53:22 | Aevum | then i guess im going to have to rockbox it and try |
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| 01:55:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 01:56:18 | saratoga | Aevum: there was never an issue with AAC decoding on the Clip+ |
| 01:56:35 | | Quit amiconn[h] (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 01:56:40 | Aevum | i guess the issue was with the original cliop |
| 01:56:53 | saratoga | yeah |
| 01:56:55 | saratoga | different player |
| 01:59:35 | Aevum | ok |
| 01:59:56 | Aevum | i thought it was the same plataform with a couple of changes to accomodate the microSD slot |
| 02:00 |
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| 02:00:52 | Aevum | wow |
| 02:00:56 | Aevum | the installer is quite sweet |
| 02:01:03 | Aevum | rockbox has come a long way |
| 02:09:17 | Aevum | thats weird |
| 02:09:22 | Aevum | i plug it in to the usb |
| 02:09:27 | Aevum | dosnt show up as drive |
| 02:09:49 | wodz | Aevum: I guess you didn't bothered to read manual... |
| 02:10:16 | Aevum | 3.1.4 : putting music on the player |
| 02:12:37 | wodz | wow, *that* should be in manual - on AMSv2 usb support in rb is disabled due to stability issues. You have to use OF to copy files into player |
| 02:12:48 | saratoga | its in the manual |
| 02:13:38 | Aevum | maybe it is and im an idiot |
| 02:13:57 | Aevum | its quite a real posibility at this moment |
| 02:15:29 | wodz | saratoga: From what I see manual says only that OF firmware will be booted if it is powered by USB connection. |
| 02:16:44 | Aevum | or if you hold left while starting the device |
| 02:17:29 | saratoga | perhaps its disabled on the fuzev2 manual, let me grep |
| 02:18:09 | Aevum | well, thanks for the info. now i know i have to boot OF to load music in to it |
| 02:18:54 | | Part kerwood |
| 02:19:22 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 02:23:31 | saratoga | seems sideral removed that line a couple months ago, probably by mistake |
| 02:23:33 | saratoga | i'll put it back |
| 02:24:25 | Aevum | the line that states you cant load music with RB ? |
| 02:25:36 | saratoga | yeah |
| 02:26:19 | Aevum | ok |
| 02:26:21 | Aevum | thank you |
| 02:27:20 | CIA-14 | New commit by saratoga (r30174): Add back mention that rockbox will boot into the OF when powered by USB because the AMSv2 devices don't support USB yet. This used to be there but ... |
| 02:29:33 | | Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 02:30:37 | CIA-14 | r30174 build result: All green |
| 02:30:51 | saratoga | i could put a mention of that in the AMSv2 install section, but it seems like something that would get overlooked pretty easily |
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| 02:35:55 | saratoga | i guess i could make a HAVE_ROCKBOX_USB option |
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| 02:44:23 | alouette | hey ^^ |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:07:10 | JdGordon | who was fiddling with the irc viewer yesterday? |
| 03:09:19 | mc2739 | it was me |
| 03:09:26 | JdGordon | i tihnk you made it worse |
| 03:09:46 | JdGordon | chrome shows the html for the link |
| 03:10:04 | mc2739 | yeah, same on firefox |
| 03:10:26 | JdGordon | if they cant be clickable can they just be plain text? |
| 03:10:35 | JdGordon | New commit by 03alex (r30169): Commit <a target="_blank" href="http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12188">FS #12188a> - Fix perl scripts that used Switch by Sean Bartell. ... <- pretty silly |
| 03:19:41 | | Join belak [0] (belak@subtle/user/belak) |
| 03:26:58 | CIA-14 | New commit by mc2739 (r30175): Revert r30153 and r30154 since links now display as html |
| 03:28:26 | | Quit kadoban_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 03:30:31 | CIA-14 | New commit by jdgordon (r30176): Remove to top/bottom quickscreen defaults. ... |
| 03:33:11 | CIA-14 | r30176 build result: All green |
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| 03:53:24 | [Saint] | Aw man....I actually liked having the file view settings on the quickscreen. |
| 03:53:28 | | Join shai [0] (~Shai@l192-117-110-233.cable.actcom.net.il) |
| 03:53:39 | JdGordon | you can put it there easily |
| 03:54:16 | [Saint] | I understand it causes problems for those that didn't rtfm, though. But, that's their problem ;) |
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| 04:00 |
| 04:03:20 | * | Strife89 uses QS up and down for Brightness control |
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| 05:03:05 | JdGordon | err... did i bugger up that commit? the defaults were correct in the sim but apparently i get dirfilter on top and bottom in my mini2g now? |
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| 05:39:36 | | Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 05:47:47 | * | [Saint] goes through the settings and is reminded how badly he desires to unify the time relevant selections in the settings so that all offer a unified set of choices. |
| 05:48:13 | [Saint] | 1,2,3,4...etc. and 0,5,10,15...etc. is a horrible mix. |
| 05:50:43 | hskf | Hay guys |
| 05:50:43 | hskf | Hey hahaha |
| 05:50:55 | | Join Transformer [0] (~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 05:51:32 | hskf | I want to help with the android port...how do I get started? I don't see it on the builds page |
| 05:52:00 | [Saint] | that's because its currently "unusable". |
| 05:52:11 | [Saint] | it won't be built automatically until it reaches unstable. |
| 05:52:31 | | Part Transformer |
| 05:53:10 | [Saint] | If you want to help, set up a development environment, checkout the source, and compile it yourself. |
| 05:53:31 | [Saint] | then look for things that are within your ability to improve upon. |
| 05:55:12 | hskf | Deal. Is it on the same SVN repo as the others? |
| 05:55:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:55:26 | hskf | Or is that only for pushing builds |
| 05:57:23 | [Saint] | The svn repo contains the source for all ports, yes. |
| 05:58:43 | [Saint] | You'll need the a development environment (NOT CygWin), the Android S/NDK, and a JDK to compile RaaA. |
| 05:59:08 | [Saint] | *S/need the a/need a/ |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:11 | hskf | Ok. Would this be written in C like all the others, or did it get completely rewritten is java? |
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| 06:00:29 | [Saint] | Bits of both. |
| 06:00:47 | hskf | Ok |
| 06:01:38 | hskf | I have eclipse set up with the sdk, so I'll get the other stuff, dl the source, and get it going |
| 06:02:03 | hskf | I've been using it on my Nexus S for a while, obviously not ready yet though |
| 06:02:14 | hskf | Do you know who else is working on itm |
| 06:02:14 | hskf | ? |
| 06:02:35 | [Saint] | Anyone thats interested in it. |
| 06:04:16 | [Saint] | kugel and bluebrother are probably the most active commiters for the RaaA port at this stage. |
| 06:06:06 | hskf | K cool, just looking for someone to ask if I really run into something |
| 06:06:19 | hskf | I guess it'd all be relatively the same thoug |
| 06:06:22 | hskf | H |
| 06:08:15 | hskf | Alright man, thanks for the start. I'll check it out this weekend and help anyway I can |
| 06:08:23 | [Saint] | o/ |
| 06:08:33 | hskf | Later |
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| 06:58:29 | pixelma | saratoga: you put the line back for all Sansas - and removed the "how to boot into the OF" if I see correctly |
| 07:00 |
| 07:02:44 | pixelma | and Clipv2, Fuzev2, Clip+ will have one sentence twice :\ |
| 07:04:05 | pixelma | and also doesn't explain the problem at all |
| 07:05:06 | pixelma | besides the line was still there for these three targets |
| 07:06:16 | pixelma | e.g. http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipv2/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-280003.1.3 </monologue> |
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| 07:13:22 | * | pixelma doesn't have time to fix or revert it now and doesn't like these commits without checking at all |
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| 07:55:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 08:26:15 | [Saint] | JdGordon: jsyk, with clean svn head you patch throws the warning "/home/saint-ubuntu/Rockbox/rockbox/apps/playlist_catalog.c: In function ‘display_playlists’: |
| 08:26:15 | [Saint] | /home/saint-ubuntu/Rockbox/rockbox/apps/playlist_catalog.c:149: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘bookmark_autoload’" |
| 08:26:32 | [Saint] | *s/your patch/your playlist handling patch/ |
| 08:27:07 | * | JdGordon knows |
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| 08:31:26 | snooffy_ | hi guys, anybody here who could help me to unbrick a sansa fuze1? |
| 08:31:40 | snooffy_ | I've done http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick |
| 08:31:56 | snooffy_ | until "use recovery mode" |
| 08:32:07 | snooffy_ | and now i have no idea what to do next |
| 08:33:07 | snooffy_ | i can see a 1gb device in /dev/sdf but cannot mount it or anything and fdisk says this about the partition |
| 08:33:08 | snooffy_ | Disk /dev/sdf: 1027 MB, 1027342336 bytes |
| 08:33:09 | snooffy_ | 32 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1011 cylinders |
| 08:33:09 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK snooffy_ |
| 08:33:09 | snooffy_ | Units = cylinders of 1984 * 512 = 1015808 bytes |
| 08:33:09 | snooffy_ | Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |
| 08:33:09 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 08:33:09 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK snooffy |
| 08:33:09 | snooffy_ | I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |
| 08:33:12 | snooffy_ | Disk identifier: 0xffffffff |
| 08:33:14 | snooffy_ | Disk /dev/sdf doesn't contain a valid partition table |
| 08:33:44 | snooffy_ | can anybody help me with it? |
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| 08:42:04 | wodz | snooffy: to me instructions are very clear - You see hidden partition than dd image onto it |
| 08:42:18 | snooffy_ | thats what i did |
| 08:42:38 | snooffy_ | but what now? |
| 08:43:10 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 08:43:22 | wodz | reboot I guess |
| 08:43:25 | snooffy_ | well.. what i did i dd'd there fuzea.bin |
| 08:44:13 | snooffy_ | wodz: I'm sorry for being such a noob in this field... how do I reboot it? |
| 08:44:58 | wodz | I'am not Sansa guy, but I would try to unplug USB cable |
| 08:45:44 | snooffy_ | yep.. that's what i did as well.. but still have a blank screen |
| 08:45:57 | snooffy_ | it doesnt fire up |
| 08:46:12 | wodz | than you have to wait for someone more skilled in this area |
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| 08:47:35 | snooffy_ | yep.. probably.. |
| 08:47:44 | snooffy_ | thanks for your interest anyway |
| 08:51:34 | wodz | If I were You I would try to dump the content of the hidden nand part and compare with what you have just dd'ed. |
| 08:54:53 | snooffy_ | do you mean this step ? dd if=/dev/sde of=orig_image.bin bs=512 count=$((0xF000)) |
| 08:56:26 | wodz | yes |
| 08:57:10 | snooffy_ | the image i get has 30MiB the one i was trying to send in has 15MiB (I've got it from here: http://forums.sandisk.com/t5/Fuze/Sansa-Fuze-Firmware-Update-01-02-31-amp-02-03-33/td-p/139175) |
| 08:58:35 | wodz | ~30MB size is what you should get - You told dd to dump that much :-) |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:01:56 | wodz | http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/amsfw.html might be of some help |
| 09:02:42 | wodz | this makes me thinking - do you have fuze or fuzev2 ? |
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| 09:08:26 | snooffy_ | v1 |
| 09:09:03 | | Quit user890104 () |
| 09:09:17 | snooffy_ | i downloaded a simmilar firmware file from sansa site (a different version of it) than is on the site you gave me |
| 09:11:39 | snooffy_ | and i get this output when dd the file in: |
| 09:11:40 | snooffy_ | dd if=fuzea.bin of=/dev/sdf |
| 09:11:40 | snooffy_ | 30720+0 records in |
| 09:11:40 | snooffy_ | 30720+0 records out |
| 09:11:40 | snooffy_ | 15728640 bytes (16 MB) copied, 43.1101 s, 365 kB/s |
| 09:11:56 | snooffy_ | so i gues this went ok, right? |
| 09:12:08 | wodz | looks good |
| 09:12:56 | | Quit webguest1234 (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 09:13:13 | snooffy_ | but nothing else happens... |
| 09:13:36 | snooffy_ | when i unplug it, it doesn't react to any buttons etc.. |
| 09:14:22 | wodz | this is beyond my abilities, sorry. |
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| 09:18:15 | snooffy_ | i wish i could get hold of the guy who's site you sent me... |
| 09:19:46 | snooffy_ | I'll try to send him a message and see if he can help.... thanks for your time wodz |
| 09:20:19 | [Saint] | as far as I know, dd'ing a firmware file there is not sufficient. |
| 09:20:38 | [Saint] | you're actually supposed to dd an image of the original FS, which you're suppsoed to already have. |
| 09:22:28 | snooffy_ | [Saint]: ah... where can I get that? |
| 09:22:35 | [Saint] | ie, someone with a *working* player needs to do this same procedure (almost), and copy the image that exists on this partition. |
| 09:22:58 | [Saint] | (this is how I understand it, anyway) |
| 09:23:29 | snooffy_ | you are probably right, thats wha they say on that unbricking guide perhaps... |
| 09:24:16 | [Saint] | I'm pretty sure there won;t be an image of this available in any of the Rockbox resources, it wouldn't be legal to redistribute it. |
| 09:25:04 | [Saint] | If you can get hold of another working player yourself, just basically do the same thing up to a point, but copy the image off the working player. Should work fine. |
| 09:26:05 | snooffy_ | but i guess i need to put that "workign player" to recovery as well right? |
| 09:26:33 | snooffy_ | guys, anybody with sansa fuze v1 who could share their FS with me? :D |
| 09:27:25 | [Saint] | snooffy: Yes, you would have to put the working player into recovery also to recover the firmware partition image. |
| 09:27:52 | snooffy_ | i will have to find someone than... |
| 09:27:58 | snooffy_ | hopefully here:D |
| 09:28:17 | [Saint] | I _think_ dd'ing a patched fuzea.bin (patched with Rockbox) is enough to boot Rockbox, but not the OF. |
| 09:28:24 | [Saint] | that's possibly your middle ground. |
| 09:32:03 | snooffy_ | sorry for a noob question |
| 09:32:10 | snooffy_ | but what is OF? |
| 09:32:15 | snooffy_ | eactly? |
| 09:32:46 | [Saint] | Original Firmware |
| 09:32:53 | [Saint] | the Sansa firmware. |
| 09:33:09 | [Saint] | fs-bluebot: .explain OF |
| 09:33:10 | fs-bluebot | OF: Shortcut for Original Firmware |
| 09:33:26 | snooffy_ | thats what i thought.. |
| 09:33:32 | snooffy_ | so i patched one |
| 09:33:48 | snooffy_ | dding right now.. |
| 09:34:36 | snooffy_ | ok done, nothig happend again... |
| 09:35:21 | [Saint] | after unmounting and cycling the power button? |
| 09:36:54 | snooffy_ | sorry, but what do you mean cycling the pwr button~? |
| 09:36:57 | snooffy_ | wow |
| 09:36:59 | snooffy_ | hold on |
| 09:37:02 | snooffy_ | it powerd |
| 09:37:10 | snooffy_ | boot loader USB mode |
| 09:38:20 | snooffy_ | Ok that got me somewhere |
| 09:38:20 | [Saint] | that sounds very much like the Rockbox bootloader, a good sign. |
| 09:38:27 | snooffy_ | no blank screen anymore |
| 09:38:30 | [Saint] | Its still connected to the PC I take it? |
| 09:38:38 | snooffy_ | now it is yep |
| 09:38:51 | snooffy_ | when i have disconnected it it sayd mount 0 and panic |
| 09:39:07 | snooffy_ | than please connect it to USB so i did |
| 09:39:35 | | Quit Scr0mple (Quit: Leaving) |
| 09:40:12 | snooffy_ | [Saint]: ok what should i do now? have Bootloader USB mode and connected to PC |
| 09:40:25 | [Saint] | Hmmmm...I have no idea what that is. Its definitely the Rockbox bootloader, which is a good sign, but how to remedy this I'm not sure. |
| 09:40:33 | [Saint] | WAs it patched with a release bootloader? |
| 09:40:36 | [Saint] | *Was |
| 09:40:38 | snooffy_ | yes |
| 09:40:59 | [Saint] | Right, it might require an svn bootloader if you're running a current build. |
| 09:41:28 | [Saint] | that's just speculation, though. I seem to recall this issue being in the forums recently. |
| 09:41:43 | [Saint] | But I'm hazy on it and don't want to blatantly feed missinformation ;) |
| 09:42:05 | snooffy_ | hold on, there is a difference, now the partition in fdisk -l has correct 4 GB |
| 09:42:19 | snooffy_ | Disk /dev/sdf: 4077 MB, 4077912064 bytes |
| 09:42:20 | snooffy_ | 126 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1019 cylinders |
| 09:42:20 | snooffy_ | Units = cylinders of 7812 * 512 = 3999744 bytes |
| 09:42:20 | snooffy_ | Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |
| 09:42:20 | snooffy_ | I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes |
| 09:42:21 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 09:42:21 | snooffy_ | Disk identifier: 0xe36d986e |
| 09:42:22 | wodz | hmm eSpeak has constant memory requirement at the level of ~420kB |
| 09:42:23 | snooffy_ | Disk /dev/sdf doesn't contain a valid partition table |
| 09:42:33 | wodz | snooffy_: use pastebin or something |
| 09:43:26 | snooffy_ | I'll try sorry for flodding |
| 09:43:57 | snooffy_ | if thats what you meant... |
| 09:44:12 | [Saint] | snooffy: Right, yeah...this has gone past my personal technical ability. When I trashed my Fuze this procedure just "automagically worked". Though the OF now no longer boots. |
| 09:44:35 | [Saint] | People seem to have varying rates of success with the AMS recovery, as quite little is actually known about it really. |
| 09:44:50 | [Saint] | Until fairly recently it was thought impossible to recover these devices. |
| 09:45:14 | [Saint] | s/fairly recently/about a year or so ago? soemthing like this / |
| 09:45:55 | snooffy_ | do you think would be wise to try to create a partition? |
| 09:46:42 | snooffy_ | i would try to use rockbox utility, but it needs a folder where the fs is mounted, but how can i mount something which doesnt have a valid parittion? |
| 09:46:52 | [Saint] | I really don't know, sorry. Someone more familiar with the Sansa needs to comment there. I wouldn't want to lead you astray after at least getting the thing *partially* working again ;) |
| 09:48:33 | snooffy_ | underestand.. |
| 09:48:49 | snooffy_ | thanks a lot, at least it get me somewhere else :D |
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| 10:17:24 | snooffy | ok made it |
| 10:17:31 | snooffy | [Saint]: :D |
| 10:18:06 | snooffy | did created partition there using kde partition manager |
| 10:18:09 | snooffy | fat32 |
| 10:18:16 | snooffy | mounted |
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| 10:18:51 | snooffy | than used rockbox utility to load the rockbox there and that was it, have the rockbox already, thanks good:D |
| 10:19:01 | [Saint] | snooffy: So...Rockbox works as expected now? |
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| 10:19:24 | snooffy | [Saint]: and wodz thank both of you |
| 10:19:29 | [Saint] | That's great. I might use your experiences here to update the Sansa AMS recovery wiki |
| 10:19:47 | snooffy | [Saint]: have to check it if it plays etc... |
| 10:20:02 | [Saint] | just to add an "if you can't get hold of an image of the original FW partition" option. |
| 10:21:06 | snooffy | what i exactly did was I've patched the original one like this ./mkamsboot fuzea.bin bootloader-fuze.sansa patched.bin |
| 10:22:12 | snooffy | than ddaed the patched bin in to the device, than removed usb, it booted to "USB boot loader" and i could see 4GB in fdisk -l |
| 10:22:34 | snooffy | so I've created a fat32 partition, and loaded the rockbox |
| 10:22:38 | snooffy | thanks god :D |
| 10:23:36 | [Saint] | That's basically exactly what I did to recovery my Fuze, but I used Windows and for whatever reason I did not have to reformat the partition. It "just worked". |
| 10:23:53 | [Saint] | I'm very glad for you, though. This is valuable info for others. |
| 10:25:27 | snooffy | i hope so:D |
| 10:25:48 | snooffy | now i have to go to sleep :D have a good one guys... |
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| 12:13:52 | gbl08ma | I'm trying to design my own convttf GUI wrapper... it's not that I'm unfamiliar with the command line, but converting many fonts using purely the command line is tiring... |
| 12:14:01 | wodz | I am looking a bit into porting espeak to rb and I am wondering how weird would it be to port it as a codec? tts needs to load ~420kB of data into memory (dictionary, phenomes, etc.). Than it would process stream of text. What oddities may I expect with such an approach? |
| 12:14:37 | gevaerts | wodz: it would prevent using it from the UI while playback is active |
| 12:14:55 | gbl08ma | aren't codecs expected to play/pause, ffw/rw, etc.? a tts engine isn't supposed to do these things |
| 12:15:25 | wodz | gevaerts: how is that? .talk files are speex so where is the problem? |
| 12:15:42 | gevaerts | wodz: .talk files don't use speex as a regular codc |
| 12:16:00 | wodz | hmm |
| 12:16:07 | gevaerts | They use a special built-in version |
| 12:17:09 | wodz | gbl08ma: ffw/rw may be simulated by seeking in text stream passed to tts |
| 12:18:14 | wodz | hmm so maybe plugin as a first step is better |
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| 12:55:17 | linuxstb | wodz: Porting as a codec sounds interesting though - adding the text files to the playlist and using espeak as the codec. Do you think you could calculate the total play time of a text file with espeak? |
| 12:56:19 | linuxstb | But I guess in terms of a UI, a user may want to see the text itself, not the WPS... |
| 12:59:02 | wodz | linuxstb: some estimation of the total play time is possible probably but I don't think it would be very accurate |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:41 | linuxstb | Also, I assume you've seen the existing port of espeak which was posted to flyspray a couple of years ago? |
| 13:01:17 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) |
| 13:02:36 | wodz | linuxstb: yes, but 1) it is extremely outdated 2) It introduces some changes to the espeak code which would make it harder to sync our port to mainline 3) Is unmantained for long time |
| 13:03:18 | wodz | 4) It dosn't work on big-endian cpus |
| 13:03:25 | wodz | *doesn't |
| 13:03:39 | Torne | more sig spammers on forum: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28438.msg183046.html#msg183046 |
| 13:03:41 | JdGordon | has anyone updated to svn and checked the QS yet? |
| 13:04:05 | Torne | JdGordon: no, but thanks a lot for doing that :) |
| 13:04:21 | JdGordon | I'm not 100% sure it actually worked thogh :/ |
| 13:04:28 | JdGordon | it worked in the sim but apparently not on my mini2g |
| 13:04:42 | Torne | ah |
| 13:05:11 | JdGordon | who beat me to the ban?! |
| 13:05:40 | scorche | =) |
| 13:07:14 | JdGordon | how does one get to the quickscreen in the sdl app? |
| 13:09:54 | gbl08ma | Torne: I guess you already deleted the spam sig, or are you talking about my sig or bertrik's sig (seeing as sexton has no sig I can see)? |
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| 13:10:30 | Torne | scorche already banned the user |
| 13:11:18 | JdGordon | ah, ok the QS change did work, seems git svn is a bit mental with merging just commited changed back into master or something if you merge origin/master into a locla branch |
| 13:11:40 | Torne | that sounds like one of the big list of things that don't work sensibly with git-svn, yes |
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| 13:52:09 | JdGordon | [Saint]: did you get to testing the playlist patch at all? |
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| 14:36:22 | JdGordon | does anyone know how the hell the "create playlist" menu item blooody works? i cant find the code it actually calls! |
| 14:44:15 | JdGordon | OK, I'm getting very tempted to commit this... |
| 14:45:30 | | Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) |
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| 14:56:28 | Ctcp | Ignored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 14:56:28 | * | JdGordon gives up trying to get testers |
| 15:00 |
| 15:03:06 | [Saint] | Well, that's a piss poor attitude ;) |
| 15:03:22 | [Saint] | I know the patch is old, but recent development/testing is young :P |
| 15:04:10 | [Saint] | I'm trying to see what in my tree is fucking it up now, I did a clean svn head build, with nothing but that patch and it still messed up which threw me off the trail...but I needed to run make reconf. |
| 15:04:37 | [Saint] | So, now I find that svn head builds/works as expected I'm trying to see whats messing it up in my local changes. |
| 15:05:42 | JdGordon | well, im done |
| 15:05:51 | [Saint] | I can't really say a hell of a lot more than "yep, it works" though really. |
| 15:06:08 | [Saint] | I don't know the many, wide and varied ways that people use playlists. |
| 15:06:45 | AlexP | JdGordon: I did! |
| 15:07:06 | AlexP | JdGordon: Incidentally, related to but not on this patch, the playlist/plyalist catalogue menu items |
| 15:07:30 | AlexP | I know they are for different things, but they are related, and it isn't terribly obvious where you should look for things |
| 15:08:17 | AlexP | e.g. if you load something from the catalogue (even if you know what that is - it is called "Playlists" on the main menu), you might think that you should be looking under the playlist catalogue menu and not playlist for stuff |
| 15:09:24 | JdGordon | AlexP: I'm open to suggestions to rename th menu items, but they shouldnt be merged |
| 15:09:29 | [Saint] | seems wise to just chuck the "Playlist Catalogue" entry in with the sub-entries under Playlist" |
| 15:09:31 | | Join Thra11 [0] (~thrall@87.115.107.103) |
| 15:09:35 | AlexP | JdGordon: Why not? |
| 15:09:39 | JdGordon | "Current Playlist" and "Playlist catalog" perhaps |
| 15:09:47 | AlexP | Yes, that'd help certainly |
| 15:09:48 | JdGordon | because they are very different functions |
| 15:09:57 | [Saint] | Ah, yes. That would help. |
| 15:10:00 | AlexP | At the very least they need renaming |
| 15:10:22 | AlexP | And in that vein, the main menu option should maybe be Playlist Catalogue |
| 15:10:32 | | Quit Strife89 (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 15:10:46 | | Join gbl08ma [0] (~gbl08ma@195.23.214.71) |
| 15:10:51 | [Saint] | dammit, just about to push enter on a long-winded version of the same statement ;) |
| 15:10:53 | JdGordon | I dont know if that is required |
| 15:11:11 | JdGordon | but OK, if that gets general approval |
| 15:11:12 | AlexP | Having the same thing referred to under different names is bad |
| 15:11:16 | AlexP | (mmmkay) |
| 15:11:18 | [Saint] | I think it would be suited to the patch. The function of the menu item has changed a lot. |
| 15:11:20 | JdGordon | simple to change |
| 15:11:37 | * | JdGordon adding the context menu items to change the cat dir |
| 15:11:43 | AlexP | but anyway, that can be separate |
| 15:11:45 | AlexP | cool |
| 15:12:11 | * | [Saint] stops the current round of builds, reverts stuff, and waits ;) |
| 15:12:22 | [Saint] | I assume its getting committed soon-ish? |
| 15:13:04 | AlexP | JdGordon: I do see your point about not merging, but I'd be much in favour of renaming the two options |
| 15:13:28 | AlexP | The "currents" can be removed from the items within the context menu in that case |
| 15:14:09 | JdGordon | [Saint]: soon as in the next 45min hopefully |
| 15:14:36 | JdGordon | AlexP: doing that is slightly annoying |
| 15:14:41 | JdGordon | a whole new set of lang strings |
| 15:14:54 | AlexP | I think it's worth it |
| 15:15:23 | AlexP | Well, not removing the current maybe |
| 15:15:34 | AlexP | but rename plyalist to current playlist anyway |
| 15:16:43 | JdGordon | thats easier |
| 15:17:19 | JdGordon | if the next release is 4.0 we should use the opportunity to remove all the deprecated strings, and then adding half a dozen more isnt a big deal |
| 15:17:39 | AlexP | 3.10 is the current plan, unless there is anything major |
| 15:17:44 | JdGordon | and given the new mixer i think there is no reason to not do that |
| 15:17:55 | AlexP | Possibly |
| 15:18:18 | AlexP | Speaking of which, I should fill in the calendar |
| 15:22:00 | [Saint] | 3.10? |
| 15:22:07 | [Saint] | why not 4.0? |
| 15:22:13 | JdGordon | AlexP: I tihnk quite a bit of the manual will be outdated by this change, no? |
| 15:23:13 | AlexP | [Saint]: Because a major version bump implies a major change |
| 15:23:34 | AlexP | JdGordon: Yes, probably |
| 15:23:42 | AlexP | JdGordon: I'll have a look |
| 15:24:02 | [Saint] | I thought historically releases jumped the version by .1? |
| 15:24:08 | [Saint] | (except for point releases) |
| 15:24:09 | AlexP | [Saint]: exactly |
| 15:24:14 | AlexP | 3.8, 3.9, 3.10 |
| 15:24:16 | AlexP | etc. |
| 15:24:23 | [Saint] | I don't think I've seen a X.<greater than 9> |
| 15:24:25 | AlexP | 3.11, 3.12 |
| 15:24:32 | AlexP | We haven't got there yet |
| 15:24:47 | AlexP | But of course there are - look at something like gnome |
| 15:24:53 | AlexP | and several million others |
| 15:24:56 | JdGordon | linux |
| 15:25:09 | AlexP | yep |
| 15:25:14 | * | JdGordon sudddnely reaslised he's been around for more than 10 releases! |
| 15:25:27 | JdGordon | well, it will be 10 soon |
| 15:25:28 | AlexP | JdGordon: And you've hated each one :) |
| 15:25:32 | [Saint] | I just assumed it would go from 3.9 to 4.0..."meh". |
| 15:25:33 | | Join Thra11_ [0] (~thrall@46.208.209.116) |
| 15:25:39 | AlexP | [Saint]: Why? |
| 15:25:42 | AlexP | 10 follows 9 |
| 15:25:57 | AlexP | they are two different numbers, not decimal places of one |
| 15:26:16 | AlexP | Major release 3, minor release 10 |
| 15:27:12 | gbl08ma | Talking about that, how many changes (or other criteria) would be enough to release a 4 major release? |
| 15:27:31 | [Saint] | doesn't the radically new playback stuff count as "major" in this case? (not trying to make myself right, heh ;)) |
| 15:27:59 | [Saint] | I did assume it was a decimal number, though...no idea why. |
| 15:28:17 | | Join markun [0] (~53501979@rockbox/developer/markun) |
| 15:28:22 | AlexP | gbl08ma: Dunno really |
| 15:28:23 | | Quit Thra11 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 15:28:25 | JdGordon | yeah, I would think the new mixer would easily be enough to justify it |
| 15:28:31 | AlexP | [Saint]: Possibly |
| 15:28:58 | AlexP | I'm not discounting 4.0 if people think it is enough, just saying that 4.0 doesn't follow 3.9 :) |
| 15:29:01 | gbl08ma | I think "radically new playback" is what was explained on some ideas for GSoC, putting videos as "normal" playback files, introducing video codecs, etc. |
| 15:29:03 | Torne | We could just do what everyone else is doing at this point and decide that major releases are not a thing (outside of things that need to be API/ABI compatible with other things) and just call them 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, etc |
| 15:29:05 | markun | just saw a video where rockbox was mentioned for 1 second :) http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/552391/head-fi-tv-episode-005-q-a-questions-and-answers |
| 15:29:16 | gbl08ma | IMO that would be enough for a 4.0 release |
| 15:29:29 | AlexP | gbl08ma: We haven't done those things |
| 15:29:38 | Torne | There's no real reason to say that any one release is qualitatively different from another |
| 15:29:42 | markun | 5:30, about an ipod DAC |
| 15:29:45 | gbl08ma | AlexP: I know |
| 15:29:47 | Torne | other than bugfix releases |
| 15:30:19 | gbl08ma | Torne: you're talking about only major version releases like Chromium always did, and Firefox is starting to do? |
| 15:30:23 | AlexP | I'd prefer the current system to a major one each time |
| 15:30:25 | Torne | Yup |
| 15:30:28 | | Nick Strife1989 is now known as Strife89 (~Strife89@207-144-19-39.cstel.net) |
| 15:30:36 | AlexP | With 4 month releases the numbers get massive very quickly |
| 15:30:46 | gbl08ma | I prefer using the minor version numbers on my projects too. |
| 15:30:50 | Torne | AlexP: It's about to get massive anyway |
| 15:30:56 | AlexP | Torne: ? |
| 15:30:58 | Torne | 3.10 is just as many characters as 23.0 |
| 15:31:04 | AlexP | I didn't mean in characters |
| 15:31:13 | AlexP | In actual number |
| 15:31:18 | Torne | yes, but that clearly doesn't matter |
| 15:31:22 | Torne | :) |
| 15:31:26 | AlexP | It is a matter of preference |
| 15:31:32 | AlexP | I was just staing mine |
| 15:32:08 | AlexP | There is no more reason to do 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0 etc than 3.1, 3.2, 3.3 etc. |
| 15:32:12 | gbl08ma | well, if we never release 4.0, and keep increasing the minor version number in 3.x, then we'll get an enormous number after 3. Like 3.156 :) |
| 15:32:25 | AlexP | I would hope to get to 4 before that :) |
| 15:32:30 | Torne | 3.141.59.2 |
| 15:32:33 | Torne | :) |
| 15:32:42 | AlexP | We aren't trying to buy patents :) |
| 15:33:13 | AlexP | But anyway, I have no preference on 3.10 vs 4.0 if people think the audio mixer deserves it :) |
| 15:33:21 | gbl08ma | and from a certain point of view, it will look like between 3.0 and 3.10 there were only small improvements, while 3.0 is a completely different thing from what 3.10 will be, or what 3.9 already is. |
| 15:33:33 | Torne | yah, that's kinda the reason |
| 15:33:53 | Torne | the difference between the "minor" releases may not be much, but within 3.x loads of stuff has changed |
| 15:33:57 | * | gbl08ma thinks 4.0 deserves a new theme. getting tired of the cabbie one... |
| 15:34:15 | AlexP | Yeah, you could just say the major number changes when cumulatively it is far enough away from the previous one |
| 15:34:39 | Torne | AlexP: Right, but then that seems weird somewhat too, since the difference between 3.9 and 4.0 is little ;) |
| 15:34:45 | AlexP | gbl08ma: Feel free to design and write one for all screen sizes :) |
| 15:34:49 | AlexP | Torne: yeah |
| 15:35:00 | Torne | Only having major.bugfix establishes that they are just numbers for releases |
| 15:35:11 | Torne | release 11 comes after release 10 and before release 9, and that's all it implies :0 |
| 15:35:14 | Torne | Er |
| 15:35:18 | Torne | Okay it doesn't imply that |
| 15:35:23 | AlexP | heh :) |
| 15:35:28 | Torne | unless you have a very strange idea of numbers |
| 15:35:32 | Torne | but you get what i mean. |
| 15:35:38 | AlexP | just about :) |
| 15:35:39 | gbl08ma | (well, I never tried 3.0, but when I started using RB there was 3.6 and I find it to have a big difference from 3.9) |
| 15:35:50 | Torne | it's why fedora, chrome, firefox, etc are doing it |
| 15:36:04 | AlexP | This time round anyway, maybe the cumulative changes + the mixer means enough has changed for a 4.0 |
| 15:36:19 | Torne | I wouldn't object to 4.0 this time even if the next one was 4.1 |
| 15:36:25 | AlexP | yeah |
| 15:36:27 | Torne | I generally find numbers like 3.10 kinda ugly |
| 15:36:42 | AlexP | I find the idea of 26.0 ugly :) |
| 15:36:54 | [Saint] | I'll just have to make sure that every time X.9 rolls around that I encourage a major commit to bump the X so I still get my way :D |
| 15:36:56 | AlexP | but that is besides the point for this release |
| 15:37:02 | AlexP | [Saint]: :) |
| 15:37:03 | Torne | AlexP: it won't show up until 2018, though :) |
| 15:37:15 | gbl08ma | I think numbers like 3.10 confuse newbies (and newcomers), it might be confused with 3.1.0 also. |
| 15:37:25 | AlexP | Torne: We ought to out chrome chrome and release every week :) |
| 15:37:31 | JdGordon | AlexP: [Saint]: http://imagebin.org/163998 is the main menu "Playlist Catalog"'s context menu... |
| 15:37:34 | Torne | Yah. Purely from a practical POV, a lot of people really do not understand major.minor |
| 15:37:45 | JdGordon | im not sure if its title should actually be changed |
| 15:37:49 | gbl08ma | Do you really think Rockbox will survive until version 26.0? |
| 15:37:53 | gbl08ma | :) |
| 15:37:56 | Torne | they confuse it as gbl08a says, which is not a problem as long as you *do* bump the major often enough :) |
| 15:38:06 | [Saint] | gbl08ma: Sure, why not? |
| 15:38:11 | AlexP | People are stupid :/ |
| 15:38:33 | AlexP | It doesn't matter in this case, I'm just wary of the people don't understand argument in general |
| 15:38:47 | * | Torne shrugs |
| 15:38:50 | AlexP | You keep making it easier for these people and in the end it is useless |
| 15:39:04 | Torne | As you said, it ultimately doesn't change anything either way |
| 15:39:15 | AlexP | indeed |
| 15:39:22 | Torne | The only time when it really matters is if you are, say, a library which has a no-backward-incompatible-change policy |
| 15:39:34 | AlexP | JdGordon: Could you give me a brief summary of the patch changes (just bullet points or something) and I'll have a bash at the manual |
| 15:39:37 | Torne | If we were doing something like that we should've gone to 4.0 when we broke the WPS syntax :) |
| 15:39:42 | AlexP | yeah |
| 15:40:01 | AlexP | Torne: We'll get another opportunity for that, JdGordon wants to break it again :) |
| 15:40:03 | Torne | but the wps syntax is not a big enough deal imo. we just don't have any interfaces we really need to preserve ;) |
| 15:40:27 | AlexP | Torne: This might become more important with librbcodec |
| 15:40:31 | Torne | AlexP: Indeed |
| 15:40:46 | Torne | But then I would generally have the library's version number be something independant |
| 15:40:55 | Torne | specifically so that it could track interface changes |
| 15:40:58 | Torne | and nothing else. |
| 15:41:01 | gbl08ma | [Saint]: well, I was kidding, but anyways my message led me to a thought: DAPs that only do audio like the ones RB supports are going to be discontinued in a few years probably because of suppression by smartphones, tablets, and other shiny gadgets... this means RaaA is the future? |
| 15:41:02 | AlexP | Yes, it would need to be I think |
| 15:41:12 | AlexP | gbl08ma: We already think that |
| 15:41:25 | [Saint] | JdGordon: your changes there are fine, IMO |
| 15:41:32 | Torne | You don't need to know the library version number unless you are developing an app, so users don't need to see it |
| 15:41:41 | Torne | thus it doesn't matter if it makes sense to them |
| 15:41:47 | AlexP | gbl08ma: http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2010/02/15/the-rockbox-future-is-an-app/ |
| 15:42:00 | AlexP | yeah |
| 15:42:29 | [Saint] | its made me think the "Start Filebrowser at /" menu item should be in the Filebrowser context menu, though. |
| 15:42:42 | gbl08ma | I'd love RaaA much more if I had an Android device (I'm stuck with WM and this old HTC Universal) |
| 15:42:55 | JdGordon | [Saint]: it is there.... |
| 15:42:57 | Torne | the usual one for libs is major for backward-incompatible changes (and also changes soname on *nix), minor for new functionality that doesn't break compat, and revision/bugfix for non-interface changes |
| 15:43:15 | [Saint] | JdGordon: re-read. |
| 15:43:21 | [Saint] | filebrowser, not playlist. |
| 15:43:33 | JdGordon | yes, as i say, thats where it is |
| 15:43:51 | [Saint] | oh...then its in two places. |
| 15:43:58 | [Saint] | which is confusing and sucky. |
| 15:44:02 | AlexP | [Saint]: Bottom item when context on "Files" |
| 15:44:04 | JdGordon | where else is it? |
| 15:44:18 | [Saint] | its in settings - general settings - file view. |
| 15:44:28 | [Saint] | bottom item. |
| 15:44:49 | JdGordon | AlexP: tbh, I think one of the weaknesses of the manual is that it tries to explain the menus and UI more than actually explaining how things generally work... |
| 15:45:35 | [Saint] | so I guess the settings - general settings - file view - start filebrowser at / item can piss off, but that'd be a seperate commit. |
| 15:45:36 | JdGordon | e.g I'd expect a chaptor on playing music, a chaptor on using the vairous playlist options, etc |
| 15:45:38 | AlexP | JdGordon: Possibly, although with plenty of our menu items they need explaining |
| 15:45:58 | JdGordon | yes, they are neede also, but they shldnt be the whole manual |
| 15:46:03 | AlexP | And that'd be a major major rewrite that I for one am not planning to do |
| 15:46:08 | AlexP | Feel free though :) |
| 15:46:11 | JdGordon | but anyway, yeah, ill put up a list of what i remember changed |
| 15:46:27 | JdGordon | hahaha, me, *write*!!! never! |
| 15:48:15 | | Join GermanMushroom [0] (~c@s5146db6a.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 15:48:33 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:49:36 | JdGordon | AlexP: http://imagebin.org/164000 |
| 15:50:00 | AlexP | JdGordon: Coolio :) |
| 15:50:37 | gbl08ma | Honestly, I don't think the audio mixer changes are enough to call a new release 4.0, because there's no evidence to the end user that a new audio mixer is present (to me, RB just sounds like before). for now, it's a behind-the-scenes improvement, and most users would not notice a difference between 3.9 and 4.0... |
| 15:51:02 | JdGordon | gbl08ma: thats because you dont know what it fixes |
| 15:51:12 | JdGordon | the uber-long standing bug where you cant do voice while paused |
| 15:52:01 | gbl08ma | That's *one* bug. |
| 15:52:25 | gevaerts | It was reported about 2514 times I think |
| 15:53:00 | JdGordon | that *one* bug is more than enough to bump the major number |
| 15:53:05 | gbl08ma | That's *two thousands, five hundreds and fourteen* bugs. |
| 15:53:17 | JdGordon | plus i think this playlist change is very long overdue |
| 15:53:32 | gbl08ma | It would be the RB release with more bug fixes ever done |
| 15:53:43 | AlexP | It was a massive bug that voice/paused one, in terms of numbers of times it was reported etc. |
| 15:54:05 | | Quit kadoban_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 15:54:36 | gbl08ma | JdGordon: we all know you're really willing to have the playlist patch in the svn :) |
| 15:55:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:55:56 | gbl08ma | The new audio mixer means that, theoretically, we could play two audio files at the same time (assuming two codecs can be loaded at the same time, and a plugin handles the playback of the 2nd file)? |
| 15:56:10 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 15:56:37 | JdGordon | iiuc the playback engine does that with voice+playback anyway, swaps codecs quickly to do it |
| 15:57:10 | gbl08ma | and that we can have fancy sound effects on rb->splash? |
| 15:57:16 | AlexP | JdGordon: the voice codec is build into core I thought |
| 15:57:34 | JdGordon | oh is it? |
| 15:57:50 | AlexP | I think so |
| 15:58:05 | AlexP | I'm waiting for someone to confirm/deny :) |
| 15:59:14 | gbl08ma | there's a speex.codec under .rockbox/codecs on my iPod... |
| 15:59:33 | AlexP | yes, and there is a cut down version in core |
| 15:59:43 | AlexP | talk isn't "proper" speex |
| 15:59:50 | AlexP | It is raw with no container or anything |
| 15:59:59 | AlexP | And I may be talking arse |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:03 | AlexP | We shall see :) |
| 16:00:12 | gbl08ma | so, if we delete speex.codec, voice will keep working? |
| 16:00:14 | gevaerts | Yes, it is |
| 16:00:14 | AlexP | gevaerts: Am I talking arse? |
| 16:00:20 | gevaerts | AlexP: not right now :) |
| 16:00:24 | AlexP | Good :) |
| 16:02:21 | gbl08ma | why does the Database have so many .tcd files? can't they be joint in a single one which includes the index & everyting? |
| 16:06:58 | [Saint] | Anyone interested in pushing a tiny commit for me? |
| 16:07:18 | [Saint] | http://pastebin.com/tmWvzFBx <−− remove irrelevant secondary "start filebrowser at /" |
| 16:07:31 | [Saint] | (literally a one line fix) |
| 16:10:30 | JdGordon | [Saint]: that menu is the menu shown in the "files" context menu |
| 16:10:36 | JdGordon | your patch removs it from both places |
| 16:10:45 | | Quit gbl08ma (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 16:11:17 | JdGordon | and here we go! |
| 16:11:19 | CIA-14 | New commit by jdgordon (r30177): FS #11808 - Major playlist handling changes (on disk playlists) ... |
| 16:11:56 | JdGordon | AlexP: http://pastebin.com/9UE6c6RC has the changes i can remember |
| 16:12:06 | [Saint] | the context menu is defined in settings_menu.c? |
| 16:12:24 | AlexP | JdGordon: Ta |
| 16:12:30 | JdGordon | the context menu is just a shortcut to it |
| 16:12:34 | | Join gbl08ma [0] (~gbl08ma@195.23.214.71) |
| 16:12:43 | [Saint] | Ah, oh...bum :S |
| 16:13:12 | CIA-14 | New commit by saratoga (r30178): Fix broken merge of my previous USB changes in the manual. |
| 16:13:16 | JdGordon | search for LANG_RESET_START_DIR and you'll see it is only in 1 place |
| 16:13:52 | [Saint] | Yeah, I just did that. Crap. Hmmm...so. Bah. |
| 16:14:04 | AlexP | Or try your change before asking for it to be committed :) |
| 16:14:09 | [Saint] | Manipulating the menus is not a strongpoint of mine. I though that diff had it covered. |
| 16:16:05 | CIA-14 | r30177 build result: All green |
| 16:18:53 | [Saint] | Oh, I did...in hindsight it would have been more sane to check to see I didn't wipe it out from where I *wanted* the item to be, instead of being satisfied with it not being where I didn't want it to be. |
| 16:19:12 | [Saint] | Now this requires more effort... |
| 16:19:44 | CIA-14 | r30178 build result: All green |
| 16:19:53 | CIA-14 | New commit by jdgordon (r30179): Add the playlist catalog option to the %cs manual text |
| 16:22:52 | JdGordon | [Saint]: blame it on the time :) |
| 16:23:28 | CIA-14 | r30179 build result: All green |
| 16:29:20 | JdGordon | should the quickscreen fix today be considered a major change for the stupid bug that they were ever there! |
| 16:29:45 | AlexP | Enhancement maybe :) |
| 16:29:56 | AlexP | It wasn't really a bug, just a silly option |
| 16:30:03 | JdGordon | definitly a bug :) |
| 16:30:35 | gbl08ma | Indeed that quickscreen change might fix many "bug" reports about RB not showing all files, not allowing track changing (only adding to playlist), etc. etc. |
| 16:31:17 | gbl08ma | and it's a silly option only if we think people are going to hit the quickscreen accidentally (not something that happens with me) |
| 16:32:17 | JdGordon | the problem is more that peope get there and dont know how to get out and accidentally change the setting |
| 16:32:49 | | Quit gbl08ma (Quit: gbl08ma) |
| 16:33:09 | | Join gbl08ma [0] (~gbl08ma@195.23.214.71) |
| 16:33:09 | | Quit gbl08ma (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 16:33:34 | | Join gbl08ma [0] (~gbl08ma@195.23.214.71) |
| 16:33:53 | AlexP | gbl08ma: Plenty of people did manage to change it by accident |
| 16:33:59 | AlexP | This is why we removed it :) |
| 16:36:05 | gbl08ma | indeed, the quickscreen has four directions, and even myself often forgot that to exit I press select... |
| 16:36:38 | gbl08ma | talking about quickscreen... does anyone remember a discussion about a multiple-page quickscreen on the forums? |
| 16:37:00 | JdGordon | IIRC that was more a discussion to make it a proper menu |
| 16:37:09 | JdGordon | and let the user choose which settings they want on it |
| 16:37:35 | gbl08ma | I don't need such thing anymore, because I taught myself not to use the QS. |
| 16:38:01 | gbl08ma | still, if work on the menu ever gets done by someone, I'm in! |
| 16:38:18 | gbl08ma | Mr. Someone will do it, for Rockbox version 34.5 |
| 16:38:57 | JdGordon | Mr. Partypooper will say "Not a chance is that going in!" |
| 16:39:48 | gbl08ma | btw, Mr. Someone has been very inactive lately... or is it me that doesn't notice the commits by Mr. Someone? |
| 16:39:53 | * | [Saint] still wants one QS related commit in svn... |
| 16:40:02 | [Saint] | FS #12075 |
| 16:40:04 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12075 Add timeout to quickscreen (patches, unconfirmed) |
| 16:40:32 | [Saint] | "On noes! more settings!"...but, useful. |
| 16:40:54 | JdGordon | I wouldnt hold your breath... we dont like screens changing without the user realising |
| 16:41:13 | [Saint] | well, they have to specifically set it, it defaults off. |
| 16:41:43 | [Saint] | so its a conscious decision to use it. |
| 16:41:47 | | Join keyb_gr [0] (~chatzilla@p4FF05EE5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:42:52 | gbl08ma | A setting to come back to the WPS after a certain time would be better IMO, because if we only apply it to the QS, people will start asking: what about a timeout on pitch screen? what about a timeout on pictureflow? what about a timeout on <insert valid (or not) rockbox screen here> |
| 16:43:01 | * | JdGordon finds another bug worth fixing |
| 16:43:26 | [Saint] | gbl08ma: why return to the WPS? |
| 16:43:36 | [Saint] | you may not have entered <screen> *from* the WPS |
| 16:43:51 | gbl08ma | IIRC some people already asked for such a timeout |
| 16:44:18 | gbl08ma | alternatively, we can add the QS timeout and another WPS timeout... |
| 16:44:24 | [Saint] | the quickscreen is the only screen that's particularly likely to be entered accidentally. |
| 16:44:43 | [Saint] | returning to the WPS after <foo> I doubt will ever happen. |
| 16:45:10 | [Saint] | the QS has a *slight* chance, if argued well enough...even then, very slight. |
| 16:45:36 | gbl08ma | I think it's easier to accidentally do a quick press on the WPS and go to the main menu, than a long press and go to the QS |
| 16:46:07 | [Saint] | yes, ok...granted. But how do you know if the pres was accidental or not? |
| 16:46:34 | gbl08ma | same with the QS: people may enter the QS propositatedly |
| 16:46:39 | gbl08ma | *on purpose |
| 16:47:10 | [Saint] | you wouldn;t want to exit the WPS and have it throw you back there because you spent a bit too long deciding what album to play. |
| 16:47:31 | [Saint] | It'd be a lot less anoying in the QS imo, as that's generally designed for *quick* actions. |
| 16:48:32 | [Saint] | I might also like to start playback and keep the screen in the database/filebrowser. |
| 16:48:33 | gbl08ma | I'm not saying return-to-WPS timeout is better than QS timeout. One only replaces the other if you access the QS from the WPS. At the same time, I agree that two time outs would be confusing... |
| 16:48:42 | [Saint] | its unlikely anywants to stay in the quickscreen. |
| 16:49:14 | [Saint] | *anyone wants |
| 16:49:49 | gbl08ma | you never know, people may fall in love with that four directional arrows pointing to settings, and admire it for hours... nah, joking :) I'm not a big fan of timeouts in small devices like the DAPs Rockbox supports. |
| 16:49:52 | JdGordon | dammit.. FS #8656 isnt trivial to fix |
| 16:49:53 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8656 Error saving non-current playlist file (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 16:50:14 | JdGordon | apparently we cant easily rewrite .m3u8 files because we dont load them fully into ram |
| 16:50:35 | | Quit the_kyle (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 16:50:47 | gbl08ma | JdGordon: and that bug is old, now you see why it has never been fixed... |
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| 16:54:12 | CIA-14 | New commit by jdgordon (r30180): s/Playlist/Current Playlist/ in the playlist viewer context menu. ... |
| 16:54:38 | JdGordon | gbl08ma: age and triviality dont neceassrily correlate |
| 16:54:57 | gbl08ma | yeah, it depends if some dev looked at it or not |
| 16:55:40 | JdGordon | If i remember I'll try to fix that over the weekend |
| 16:56:10 | JdGordon | not to self: try to grab the audio/plugin/codec/voice/any buffer as a temp buffer so this can work |
| 16:57:29 | CIA-14 | r30180 build result: All green |
| 17:00 |
| 17:05:35 | | Quit ReimuHakurei_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 17:05:57 | gbl08ma | Is OGG embdded AA decoding in Rockbox technically possible? today there was a small discussion about AA on OGG on this channel, http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20110720#00:56:51 |
| 17:06:59 | [Saint] | I guess *anything* is possible....but, embedded AA is the Devil. |
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| 17:08:18 | gbl08ma | embedded AA would save me probably more than 50MB of disk space, because most of my music is OGG and I need to use separate images to have AA |
| 17:08:26 | [Saint] | the only need I could see for embedded AA is if you had one folder that contained your entire music collection in individual files not seperated into Artist/Album |
| 17:08:45 | [Saint] | embedded AA wouldn;t save you anything. |
| 17:08:59 | [Saint] | you know that the art is duplicated, and added to each file, right? |
| 17:09:09 | [Saint] | you'd LOSE space. |
| 17:10:05 | gbl08ma | I have most of my music collection in individual files not separated into Artist/Album. And yes, I know embedded AA is added to each file. Just didn't think of that |
| 17:10:22 | gbl08ma | the only thing it would save is the size of the list of files in the file browser |
| 17:11:04 | [Saint] | if you make "folder/cover.jpg hidden files, and put the show files option to "supported", you won't see them. |
| 17:11:06 | [Saint] | fixed. |
| 17:11:40 | [Saint] | *folder/cover/<track_name>.jpg |
| 17:12:46 | gbl08ma | The problem with "supported" is that, on other folders, it hides files I want to see. that's also why some newbie users made bug reports after accidentally changing that setting on the QS, now it's solved. |
| 17:13:40 | [Saint] | what files does it hide that you want to see? It should, in theory, display any file extension you can forseeably do anything useful with in Rockbox. |
| 17:15:47 | gbl08ma | files I might want to edit with the text editor, for example. or when I want to delete essential files when I'm bored and willing to break Rockbox, before unzipping a new build... :) |
| 17:16:07 | gbl08ma | also hides README files, etc. |
| 17:16:44 | gbl08ma | (sometimes the iPod acts as temporary pendrive, or when I want to read things on the go, although for that now I use my phone) |
| 17:16:46 | [Saint] | all files the text editor can open should be displayed, if not, I'd call that a bug. The latter is a specific use case that would warrant changing the view setting, imo. |
| 17:17:46 | | Quit mdipolt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 17:18:01 | Torne | [Saint]: the text editor can open anything |
| 17:18:05 | Torne | so that doesn't really help |
| 17:18:47 | [Saint] | Ah...hmmm. (You can tell I don;t really use the text editor on my DAPs, I'm...well, not insane ;)) |
| 17:19:41 | gbl08ma | I don't use it much either. It's more for doing quick edits on theme files without needing to connect to the computer again. |
| 17:21:27 | [Saint] | that, to me, would be a use case rare enough to warrant changing the file-view setting from supported to all. |
| 17:22:18 | [Saint] | If all extensions the text viewer can open are listed in supported, I'd say there's no problem (with newfound knowledge the editor opens everything). |
| 17:22:44 | gbl08ma | I think the text viewer open everything too... |
| 17:23:10 | [Saint] | basically as I said, every file you can forseeably do anything useful with (in normal use cases) should be listed under supported. |
| 17:24:32 | * | gbl08ma rethinks on the huge file list issue on Music folder due to AA files |
| 17:25:36 | [Saint] | My solution for that is to make them hidden files (in Windows), and use the "Supported" view. |
| 17:25:58 | [Saint] | but, I only get a single "Folder.jpg" per directory. Not a huge list. |
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| 17:26:14 | gbl08ma | I don't think it's worth changing the file filter to Supported and making files hidden, when I have only 192 music files + about 150 AA files unsorted. Only artists/albums with more than three track have their own folder |
| 17:26:33 | gbl08ma | thus having their own folder.jpg |
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| 18:59:43 | pixelma | I wanted to know if playliists stored alongside the files (same directory or above) keep working with the new handling |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:51 | | Quit swilde (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 19:01:18 | pixelma | I also don't think that the old behaviour was "broken"... additionally to that I apologise for not asking earlier but I don't have much rockbox time lately |
| 19:02:32 | gbl08ma | various users confirmed the old behaviour was broken, I'm one of them |
| 19:02:50 | | Quit bthomson (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 19:02:59 | gbl08ma | when selecting to see a playlist that wasn't playing at that moment, it would just return to the file browser |
| 19:03:11 | gbl08ma | why do you think it wasn't "broken"? |
| 19:03:49 | | Quit boghog (Quit: boghog) |
| 19:03:52 | AlexP | gbl08ma: I'm in favour of the patch, but you cannot say that one way of use is broken and another isn't |
| 19:04:00 | AlexP | It is just how you prefer it to work |
| 19:04:13 | AlexP | And I bet I coud find a user to say anything was broken |
| 19:04:39 | AlexP | It isn't a question of confirming it |
| 19:04:55 | pixelma | gbl08ma: I'm just referring to the principle, what you describe sounds like a bug |
| 19:05:14 | gbl08ma | yes, I was talking about the bug |
| 19:05:24 | AlexP | Well that bug isn't the point |
| 19:05:40 | pixelma | that the playlist would be stored in the music directories not the catalogue |
| 19:05:48 | gbl08ma | afaik no one said the old behaviour was broken. the only thing broken to my knowledge was the function to view a playlist from the file browser |
| 19:07:01 | gbl08ma | About the behaviour, I think (my own opinion) the correct approach would be to eliminate the catalogue as it is now, and let playlists be created in the music's folder. the catalogue would be implemented in a different way: |
| 19:07:52 | gbl08ma | the database would scan for playlist files and display them together, and that would be RB's playlist catalogue. That's how things should work, IMO of course. |
| 19:08:07 | AlexP | No |
| 19:08:13 | AlexP | It shouldn't be tied to the database |
| 19:08:29 | | Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 19:09:31 | gbl08ma | Then how do we make the playlist catalogue show all playlists in the device and not just those inside /playlists? |
| 19:09:40 | AlexP | You can do that in addition |
| 19:09:56 | AlexP | I don't object to having the database show all the playlists on the device |
| 19:10:30 | AlexP | But I strenuously object to having the database forced on me |
| 19:10:41 | AlexP | Part of the great attraction of Rockbox is not having to use a database |
| 19:11:31 | gbl08ma | I think playlists in the DB is an interesting feature. Not that I use playlists much, but I have a few created. But, I agree that perhaps that shouldn't replace the playlist catalogue... |
| 19:11:52 | AlexP | they definitely shouldn't |
| 19:12:04 | AlexP | I don't understand why people are so keen to force others to use the database |
| 19:12:40 | gbl08ma | (I don't use the database much, but I find it useful for certain things, e.g. play stats) |
| 19:13:01 | AlexP | I don't need to be told how often I listen to something |
| 19:13:37 | gbl08ma | nor do I, but it's nice to have. Of course, I could live with the DB disabled. |
| 19:13:54 | gbl08ma | then again, how will playlist catalogue show all playlists in the device and not just those inside /playlists? |
| 19:14:02 | AlexP | It won't |
| 19:14:17 | gbl08ma | isn't the playlist catalogue meant to show all the playlists on the device? |
| 19:14:21 | AlexP | No |
| 19:15:06 | AlexP | That would be a job for the database |
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| 19:15:46 | gbl08ma | so, why have the playlist catalogue if it is just a copy of /playlists? obviously, other users might find this "copy" useful... |
| 19:16:05 | AlexP | /playlists IS the playlist catalog |
| 19:16:10 | AlexP | It has existed for ages |
| 19:17:34 | gbl08ma | then, some of the JdGordon's (I think was who commited the changes) changes need to be reverted. |
| 19:17:40 | AlexP | why? |
| 19:18:34 | gbl08ma | it will create all the playlists on the playlist catalogue and this is not intended, or is it? |
| 19:18:52 | AlexP | yes |
| 19:19:25 | AlexP | Well, by default |
| 19:19:34 | AlexP | You can chose to put them somewhere else if you want |
| 19:20:46 | gbl08ma | IIRC JdGordon's change was to put the playlist saving text input with "/playlists/" as default text, to ease saving of playlists |
| 19:21:03 | AlexP | yes, into the catalogue |
| 19:21:08 | pixelma | AlexP: is ther also the choice to have it in the current playlist item's directory and not one set directory? |
| 19:21:16 | AlexP | (you can change the location of the catalogue) |
| 19:21:37 | AlexP | pixelma: I don't know - you can of course type it in, but I don't know if there is an option |
| 19:22:13 | AlexP | I feel a bit sorry for JdGordon - he first sent emails about this patch in November last year |
| 19:22:51 | * | gbl08ma wonders how to change the location of the catalogue... (haven't read the manual from the start to the end for months) |
| 19:23:00 | AlexP | He just added that |
| 19:23:07 | AlexP | And I haven't got round to the manual changes |
| 19:23:15 | AlexP | Hint: use the context menu |
| 19:24:13 | gbl08ma | is the patch still needed or these changes are commited? I'm getting a bit confused... |
| 19:24:21 | AlexP | He's committed it |
| 19:24:22 | pixelma | yes, but then it got forgotten and he picked it up quite recently and I admit not having noticed for a while... so for me the time between discussion and actual commit was too short. I remember reading a big discussion about this with Llorean last weekend or so - and half a week is not much for such a big change if it takes existing functionality away |
| 19:24:37 | AlexP | pixelma: He's been asking for testers for weeks |
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| 19:24:49 | pixelma | week*s*? |
| 19:24:52 | AlexP | Yes |
| 19:24:56 | pixelma | I only know of one |
| 19:25:42 | pixelma | and by the way - I wasn't complaining much yet, just asking |
| 19:25:49 | * | gbl08ma goes svn update'ing his checkout and make && make zip'ing a new build to see if he can change the catalogue location |
| 19:25:49 | | Quit the_kyle (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 19:26:49 | AlexP | pixelma: I don't know if there is or not, but if not I would have thought an option to save playlists locally or in the catalogue by default would be in order |
| 19:27:05 | * | pixelma sighs at making rules about decision making |
| 19:27:26 | pixelma | as agreed on several times before |
| 19:27:31 | AlexP | If nobody bothers to test or comment, I don't see there is much else to do |
| 19:28:09 | pixelma | sorry about real life |
| 19:28:39 | AlexP | Of course you can't do anything about that, but you can't stop everything until everybody is free |
| 19:28:53 | gbl08ma | I'm getting lots of conflicts on svn update'ing, related to the playlists part. Accepted all merged versions, let's see if it compiles cleanly... if not, I'll have to do a full svn revert and reapply patches... |
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| 19:29:44 | gbl08ma | of course it returned errors. I'm not going to bother more, I'll just svn revert everything... |
| 19:30:59 | pixelma | AlexP: and what about Llorean's points - I think it was exactly that but got a bit lost when discussion went out of hands. I don't remember seeing any reaction to that |
| 19:31:13 | AlexP | I don't remember |
| 19:31:15 | pixelma | in terms of patch rethought |
| 19:31:43 | AlexP | I'm not defending all aspects of this, I'm not the author or an expert in it |
| 19:31:52 | AlexP | I'm just defending it being committed |
| 19:32:26 | AlexP | If people wanted to test/comment but couldn't because of other things couldn't, I would have thought a quick mail to the list stating that would have been useful |
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| 19:33:58 | pixelma | the "I pick this up again" mail was on the 18th? |
| 19:34:13 | AlexP | I think so, but it came up in here loads |
| 19:34:18 | AlexP | in addition |
| 19:35:32 | gbl08ma | I tested JdGordon's patch after one of his messages on IRC asking for testers. |
| 19:35:59 | | Quit Xerion (Quit: ) |
| 19:35:59 | pixelma | yes, but I thought we agreed on IRC not being the proper place - and two days isn't much |
| 19:36:44 | AlexP | 8 months is though |
| 19:36:53 | AlexP | More than long enough for comments on the tracker |
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| 19:38:52 | pixelma | somehow that doesn't strike me as fair, can't give much reason though except: time this thing was on people's minds was way less than 8 months as it was probably forgotten for a while in between |
| 19:39:04 | | Join GermanMushroom [0] (~c@s5146db6a.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:39:50 | pixelma | also, I remember not seeing explained or understanding all the things this change comes with |
| 19:39:51 | bertrik | length of time on the tracker is not a very good criterium for inclusion of a patch I think |
| 19:40:33 | AlexP | I'm not defending everthing here, just saying that I understand |
| 19:40:53 | AlexP | It happens everytime, nobody tests or comments until it goes in |
| 19:41:06 | kugel | letting people wait to test a patch for more than a week is unreasonable |
| 19:41:36 | pixelma | but it wasn't a week in most people's attention I guess |
| 19:41:51 | kugel | then pay attention if you're interested |
| 19:41:56 | gevaerts | We've always said that patches that aren't meant for inclusing (eventually...) shouldn't be on the tracker. I think it's not unreasonable to derive from that that any new patch on the tracker is an implicit request for comments, which is equivalent to discussing things on the mailing list |
| 19:42:00 | pixelma | each and every day? |
| 19:42:13 | kugel | no |
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| 19:42:20 | kugel | which is why I said more than a wekk |
| 19:42:21 | pixelma | it was 2 days on the ml |
| 19:42:35 | pixelma | for the "I pick it up again" |
| 19:42:51 | AlexP | It had been picked up before that, as comments on the traqcker show |
| 19:43:13 | AlexP | And given the prvious discussion, anyone interested could have been getting emails from the tracker |
| 19:43:32 | kugel | pixelma: you seem tend to come up with complaints only post-commit (no offense) |
| 19:43:53 | pixelma | I've also done lots of testing |
| 19:43:53 | kugel | weird sentence, but anyway |
| 19:44:41 | kugel | IMO we can't afford stalling development because of other people's lack of time |
| 19:44:57 | kugel | especially since I noticed the development rate somewhat decreased recently |
| 19:45:25 | bertrik | it depends on what your goal is, I guess |
| 19:45:38 | AlexP | gevaerts: Especially when there was a discussion at the start and then further discussion on the tracker |
| 19:45:41 | kugel | our goal is fun, as ever :) |
| 19:46:22 | bertrik | I won't mind having a stable rockbox with slower development over time, as we're getting more complete |
| 19:46:31 | pixelma | yeah |
| 19:46:43 | bertrik | I don't feel a push to add more and more stuff |
| 19:46:56 | kugel | this patch didn't actually push new stuff IIUC |
| 19:47:25 | pixelma | but removed old features? Still not sure about that though... :\ |
| 19:47:34 | kugel | hopefully with gerrit this problem will be gone, if it can make people review stuff more actively |
| 19:47:40 | pixelma | as even testers don't seem to know about |
| 19:51:23 | pixelma | and surely forcing things on others by means of committing something will get more attention. I guess that's natural |
| 19:51:23 | AlexP | They don't get any attention before |
| 19:51:23 | saratoga | we always have slower development in mid summer since people are away |
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| 19:51:23 | pixelma | it got mine with this weekend's discussion but I wasn't prepared for this commit |
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| 19:51:46 | pixelma | I can't give evidence but I wanted to ask what I asked at the beginning today anyway these days |
| 19:52:55 | kugel | I dont see a reason to complain how this patch was handled, JdGordon did way better than previously :) |
| 19:53:32 | pixelma | a bit but not *way* in my eyes |
| 19:53:36 | kugel | I knowingly didn't bother so I don't complain even if I might notice something I'm unhappy with |
| 19:53:55 | kugel | well, I might complain, but not that it was committed too early |
| 19:54:36 | kugel | I also find it unreasonable to expect everyone to wait for me until I have time to look at things |
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| 19:54:54 | gbl08ma | btw, did the manual get updated with JdGordon's changes? I just tried the latest build, the playlist part has some different things (no matter you like them or not) that must go in the manual... |
| 19:55:06 | gbl08ma | anyways, seeing as this is still being discussed... |
| 19:55:28 | saratoga | yeah i tend to agree with kugel, its pretty hard to get people to review anything, and theres inevitably someone complaining after major commits |
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| 19:55:53 | saratoga | so i tend to think its best to commit eventually and then fix things once people start complaining |
| 19:56:37 | kugel | what annoys me a bit is that we have exactly this discussion over and over |
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| 19:56:48 | AlexP | gbl08ma: [19:23:08] <AlexP> And I haven't got round to the manual changes |
| 19:57:07 | pixelma | kugel: I don't expect anyone to wait for me but two days are too few to me... sure you could discuss if it was two days or more here, that's why I would like to see some rules |
| 19:58:10 | kugel | the mail is almost 3 days old |
| 19:58:21 | kugel | and I'm sure he came up with this thing earler |
| 19:58:24 | kugel | earlier* |
| 19:58:45 | pixelma | 2 or 3... still not a week which I would have found approriate |
| 19:59:12 | gevaerts | It's not 3 days. It's 8 months |
| 19:59:12 | kugel | pixelma: you should at the very least say "hey, I don't currently have time but I want to have a look so please wait a bit for me", but that didn't happen |
| 19:59:12 | saratoga | hasn't these changes been in the works for months? |
| 19:59:28 | kugel | I don't think such a mail/post/whatever is too much too ask for |
| 19:59:28 | AlexP | saratoga: Since November |
| 19:59:41 | saratoga | heh |
| 19:59:42 | pixelma | gevaerts: I already state what I think about that |
| 19:59:52 | pixelma | anyway, doesn't look like anyone knows the new behaviour enough to answer my two questions about it... so |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:04 | AlexP | That the tracker is irrelevant? |
| 20:00:09 | kugel | well, when the patch was opened doesn't really count if there's half a year of inactivity |
| 20:00:18 | gevaerts | kugel: why not? |
| 20:00:23 | pixelma | AlexP: I didn't say tat |
| 20:00:24 | pixelma | that |
| 20:00:26 | pixelma | at all |
| 20:00:34 | kugel | gevaerts: because everyone has forgotten about it |
| 20:00:45 | gevaerts | kugel: what if he had committed it back then? |
| 20:00:45 | AlexP | But stuff being on the tracker for ages doesn't count? |
| 20:01:16 | kugel | after such a long time of inactivity the rules should be the same as for newly opened tasks |
| 20:01:19 | saratoga | i guess it depends how much changes right before its committed |
| 20:01:39 | gevaerts | kugel: why? |
| 20:01:50 | saratoga | i remember people complaining that i didn't discuss the power button changes after i got almost everyone i could think of to agree to them and then left them on the tracker for 5 months while i asked even more people |
| 20:01:56 | kugel | gevaerts: because everyone has forgotten about it |
| 20:01:58 | kugel | ;) |
| 20:02:11 | saratoga | some peopel still complained that they weren't warned which was absolutely ridiculous |
| 20:02:34 | pixelma | AlexP: no, but to me (and as I said before), especially controversial feature( change)s and that's what I think it is, should go to the ml (and have some rules about it :\ ) |
| 20:02:54 | kugel | what's controversial is controversial :) |
| 20:02:55 | AlexP | This is partly a problem with there being so much dead stuff on the tracker, it hides other things |
| 20:03:00 | gevaerts | kugel: it's been on the tracker all along. It's *extremely* easy to go and look at new patches every week or so. If people don't do that, they don't get to blame people who put the stuff there |
| 20:03:19 | kugel | pixelma: it didn't appear this changes were controversial |
| 20:03:23 | kugel | not to me, that is |
| 20:03:32 | saratoga | its not hard to watch it! |
| 20:03:36 | saratoga | exactly, we have a subscribe feature and an RSS feed for the tracker |
| 20:03:47 | pixelma | I look at *new* items in the bug or patch tracker, just not old ones anymore |
| 20:03:58 | saratoga | i skim every new task posted to the tracker, takes like 5 minutes a day |
| 20:04:06 | AlexP | We can't adapt to everyone's way of working |
| 20:04:08 | kugel | yes, but even if you deeply looked at a task 6 month ago, it's out of your memory now |
| 20:04:11 | pixelma | kugel: seen the discussion with Llorean? |
| 20:04:15 | AlexP | People have to adapt a bit too |
| 20:04:26 | kugel | so the notice about new activity is equivalent to the notice bout a new task |
| 20:04:27 | AlexP | kugel: Then you should have subscribed to it then |
| 20:04:31 | gevaerts | pixelma: did you comment on it when it was new? |
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| 20:04:58 | pixelma | gevaerts: no, but I didn't understand what it did exactly |
| 20:05:03 | saratoga | are we talking about a reviving a dead task and rewriting it, or just committing something that was left mostly done on the tracker for comment? |
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| 20:05:28 | kugel | something in the middle |
| 20:05:49 | saratoga | i'd say if the features change siginficantly it needs an email and a long wait |
| 20:05:54 | pixelma | I still think the original description is lacking quite a bit about actual consequences of the change |
| 20:06:04 | saratoga | if the implementation is improved but the features don't, then i don't think that matters |
| 20:06:09 | AlexP | hence testing being a good idea |
| 20:06:50 | pixelma | e.g. what happens with the existing "alongside files" playlists and if it is still possible to save any such easily |
| 20:06:55 | saratoga | it seems like if you're watching an area of code (say codecs, playlists, wps) its pretty reasonable to subscribe to FS tasks concerning that area and maybe even comment on them |
| 20:07:43 | saratoga | if you have months to do so and did not, then its mostly ones own fault when its committed without one reviewing it |
| 20:08:12 | saratoga | someone with SVN access putting something on the tracker basically says "i want to commit this, take a look at it before I do" |
| 20:08:47 | saratoga | if someone doesn't comment after a length of time, its reasonable to think they don't have an opinion |
| 20:10:52 | pixelma | maybe there is an item for this new catalogue folder item "current (file's) directory? |
| 20:11:05 | pixelma | catalogue folder setting |
| 20:11:43 | gbl08ma | yes there is a setting, it works very similarly to the "start filebrowser here" setting. |
| 20:11:58 | AlexP | gbl08ma: That's a setting for which dir is the catalog |
| 20:12:06 | AlexP | gbl08ma: pixelma is asking something different |
| 20:12:15 | pixelma | well that would be one fixed directory |
| 20:13:14 | gbl08ma | I keep on re-reading pixelma's sentence and I think what she means is what I explained, but certainly I'm wrong. letting the discussion go on... |
| 20:14:07 | AlexP | gbl08ma: She wants an option that lets you select whether to use the catalog, or to save the playlist in whatever directory the files you have added are in |
| 20:14:20 | AlexP | gbl08ma: i.e. not always in the same directory |
| 20:15:23 | gbl08ma | I see. that setting would render part of this discussion unnecessary... |
| 20:16:22 | gbl08ma | what RSS feeds does Rockbox have exactly? only the tracker one? is there any to indicate new releases and such? and more importantly, is there a list of these? |
| 20:17:28 | bertrik | the tracker has several ones, like most recent entry and most recently modified entry |
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| 20:19:08 | gbl08ma | anything more than the tracker ones? |
| 20:21:08 | saratoga | where is the link for the RSS feeds again? |
| 20:21:40 | saratoga | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/toplevel/proj1 |
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| 21:17:20 | pixelma | saratoga: thanks for fixing the manual commit btw. |
| 21:17:59 | saratoga | no problem, not sure how i copied the wrong line of text into my clean tree for that commit |
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| 21:24:20 | bertrik | I have an ipod nano 1g and an IAP accessory now, so I can finally hack on IAP myself |
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| 21:40:35 | bertrik | There's no wiki page about the ipod nano1g apparently... at least I can't find one |
| 21:41:01 | gbl08ma | I think there never was. At least, I never found one. |
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| 21:51:41 | bertrik | button-clickwheel.c has two return statements in a row, can't be right |
| 21:55:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:59:12 | bertrik | IAP stops working for me once I enter the I/O debug screen, any ideas? |
| 21:59:22 | bertrik | (on the nano 1g) |
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| 22:06:34 | * | bertrik spots some frivolous unimplemented functions for ipod nano 1g: lcd invert and lcd flip ;) |
| 22:08:48 | bertrik | Have the LCD controllers been positively identified for the the various lcd types in the nano1g and color? |
| 22:09:14 | bertrik | (if so, this is nice information to put in the source code, thank you very much) |
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| 22:22:54 | preglow | don't think they were |
| 22:23:01 | preglow | 5g and nano shares the controller too, afaik |
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| 22:47:25 | bertrik | yay, LCD inverse mode works on my ipod nano1g, not really useful but nice :) |
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| 22:50:23 | bertrik | Can the ipod nano 1g also have different lcd types, or is it just the ipod color that has different types? |
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| 23:21:32 | CIA-14 | New commit by bertrik (r30181): ipod nano 1g: show lcd type debug info, make more room for iap debug info |
| 23:24:48 | CIA-14 | r30181 build result: All green |
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| 23:49:41 | bug2000 | Is there a firmware for the Fuzev2 to work `hidden` mode? |
| 23:49:59 | bug2000 | As in, booting OF unless I have the LEFT button pressed at boot time. |
| 23:50:10 | bug2000 | In other words, reverse the current start way. |
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| 23:55:51 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).