#rockbox 2011-07-25

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#rockbox log for 2011-07-25

00:01:20		Join soap [0] (~soap@cpe-76-181-78-156.columbus.res.rr.com)
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03:00:19	CIA-14	New commit by saratoga (r30209): Convert AMSv2 microphone samples from 14 to 16 bit before storing them.
03:04:32	CIA-14	r30209 build result: All green
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03:14:52	evildaemon	I appear to be unable to flush the rockbox database.
03:15:32	[Saint]	open the volume in <explorer_of_your_choice> and delete all .tcd files, done.
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03:41:32	*	jhMikeS wonders why r30209 is only for the microphone when it's always 14-bit samples
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04:24:44		Join saratoga [0] (9803ec71@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.236.113)
04:25:17	saratoga	i don't seem to be able to reproduce the DC offset reported when pausing the sansa clip
04:25:33	saratoga	my player drops towards zero as expected, with only a bit of white noise left when paused
04:28:03	saratoga	i get similar results both through high impedance and through headphones
04:55:56	saratoga	^^ clip+ rather, not Clip
04:56:05	saratoga	testing on the ClipV2 i get a similar result
04:56:30	saratoga	above 0dB or so I also get a faint click changing the volume, but its due to the small dc offset present, on the order of a few mV
04:56:34	saratoga	not sure where it comes from
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05:26:52	saratoga	soap, JdGordon: ban Idella Yerbich
05:27:21	JdGordon	done
05:32:43	evildaemon	I'm not really having much luck. I get Rockbox installed: "Oh great lets try it out." I turn it on, select a track AND. "Undefined instruction at 09E86BF4" My face: -.- Me: "Well okay then! Lets just google this." About a minute later "I just had to delete .rockbox, sorry for spamming the list." Me: "Okay, lets just open konsole here and rm .rockbox" Again about a minute later, one rm -r AND "Cannot remove, read-only filesystem" My
05:33:31	JdGordon	if you actually want help you need to rethink your sentences...
05:33:47	evildaemon	Yeah, that was a rant i wrote about 30 mins ago.
05:34:07	evildaemon	It was left on the prompt.
05:36:46	[Saint]	Howdy, 480x800 RaaA full-touch "cabbie" theme, needs testers: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-fd8a471f.html
05:36:53	tmzt_	evildaemon: it sounds like the filesystem is corrupt
05:36:59	tmzt_	linux will push it to read only if that happens
05:37:08	evildaemon	That was my suspicion.
05:37:10	tmzt_	you can pastebin dmesg for me and I can take a look
05:39:05	[Saint]	This theme is at a point where I consider it to be "finished"...unless there are any additions that testers believe would be beneficial to the theme.
05:39:31	[Saint]	Once I have completed the 320x480 port of it, I will update my forum thread and start a push to get it committed.
05:40:56	[Saint]	(please discount the AA font as being a part of the theme, for now, it will change...the numerals need to be fixed width, which ewas not possible at the time the font was converted)
05:41:41		Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend)
05:42:36	JdGordon	[Saint]: volume icons is still fucked
05:43:05	[Saint]	define "fucked"?
05:43:13	JdGordon	not appearing
05:43:41	[Saint]	Blargh! I haven't touched it since I got it working for evilnick...I wonder what gives.
05:43:59	[Saint]	I'll flip to Ubuntu and poke at it in the SDl app.
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05:52:24	[Saint]	JdGordon: Something must have gone wrong with the extraction...its working fine here.
05:52:37	[Saint]	240x320 uses the same code, working on device.
05:52:47	[Saint]	SDL app displays 480x800 correctly.
05:53:30	JdGordon	something very wierd is happening
05:53:40	[Saint]	Oh?
05:53:44	JdGordon	ive got the version with tabs now after i deleted rockbox and reextracted
05:54:05	[Saint]	....what the?!?!
05:54:08	[Saint]	how? ;)
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05:54:10	JdGordon	indeed
05:55:12	[Saint]	I have an updated .apk floating around here somewhere if it helps. Its possible that the .apk you installed was from me, and had the theme included in the .apk
05:55:27	[Saint]	but, that would be a VERY old build.
05:55:43	JdGordon	yeah, gimme the apk
05:55:53	[Saint]	right, one sec.
05:57:18	JdGordon	i dont have a heap of time right now though
05:57:22	JdGordon	link it and remind me tonight
05:57:33	[Saint]	will do.
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05:59:29	[Saint]	my last build is a few revisions below svn head anyway, I doubt there's been any relevant commits since then but it'll give me a chance to make updated builds for the hell of it, anyway.
06:00
06:01:19	JdGordon	the build on my phone is weeks old so meh :)
06:03:12	JdGordon	[Saint]: don't you want to play with the tiled main menu patchs :)
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06:14:15	[Saint]	I do, yes...but, one thing at a time ;)
06:14:30	*	JdGordon would like it in for 3.9+1 :)
06:15:05	JdGordon	and it would be great if the default android/big-screen-touch skins used it
06:15:17	[Saint]	I don't want to spin off onto a tangent with this theme that further delays the 320x480 port. And playing with tiled menus almost certainly will :P
06:15:47	[Saint]	Lets just say...I'm perfectly capable of distracting myself, thankyouverymuch ;)
06:15:54	JdGordon	hehe
06:17:35	[Saint]	I'm not so sure about just "Android-in-General" using tiled menus, ...but I will most certainly look into doing so when I do the tablet full-touch themes.
06:18:32	[Saint]	A while back I figured out a way to do almost the same thing without your patch, but it relied on a foolish amount of code to do things that are now very simple with your patch, and all the text needed to be bitmaps.
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06:42:34	[Saint]	JdGordon: Is it a possibility to add "Playlist Catalogue" to %cs? Currently whilst in the catalogue it displays the "Settings" %cs field for some reason.
06:42:40	[Saint]	I haven't looked into why.
06:42:54	JdGordon	it should be the last item since a few days ago
06:43:19	[Saint]	Oh...right, I missed that. Thanks. I'll update the theme to accomodate this.
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09:28:36	[Saint]	bertrik: (logs) http://www.datafilehost.com/download-54e78f85.html <−− "iLike" (OF theme clone) with anti-aliased fonts.
09:28:55	[Saint]	(for iPod Nano 1~2G)
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09:35:44	[Saint]	Odd....
09:36:42	[Saint]	JdGordon: A theme using the playlist catalogue %cs field displays the playlist catalogue true condition during startup...
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09:38:52	[Saint]	no so obvious on a flash target...but terribly obvious on a HDD target.
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09:39:56	[Saint]	it displays the correct %cs field whilst navigating around the playlist catalogueitself, but for some reason it displays it during startup also.
09:40:05	[Saint]	*catalogue itself
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10:27:08	JdGordon	[Saint]: hmm... how long does it take to go to the correct one?
10:27:21	JdGordon	or, what is your start screen setting set to?
10:28:35	[Saint]	JdGordon: My start screen is set to main menu, it takes 1~2 seconds on a flash device, 5~6 on HDD
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10:40:07	JdGordon	[Saint]: ok, should be fixable :)
10:40:29	[Saint]	Yeah, I was more wondering if you were aware of it or not.
10:40:47	JdGordon	hmm....
10:42:21	JdGordon	[Saint]: try http://pastebin.com/0sEEqAHw
10:43:10	Taco_Princess	[Saint]: Did anyone happen to respond to my issue while I was away?
10:43:29	[Saint]	Taco_Princess: Remind me again what that issue was...
10:43:45	*	[Saint] doesn't quite have the steele trap mind he used to anymore ;)
10:43:53	[Saint]	*steel too
10:45:42	[Saint]	Taco_Princess: ....?
10:45:53	Taco_Princess	I was chatting in another channel, sorry
10:46:20	Taco_Princess	I couldn't get the pitch_detector application to work properly.
10:46:46	[Saint]	Oh, then no. To my knowledge there has been no talk of this since that day.
10:47:38	Taco_Princess	That's okay, thanks for your time.
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11:02:31	[Saint]	JdGordon: Before I forget... http://www.datafilehost.com/download-d4c51add.html <−− theme and binary.
11:02:50	JdGordon	swap you, test the aboeve diff
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11:21:17	[Saint]	JdGordon: Unfortunately, nope :-S
11:21:21	[Saint]	still the same.
11:22:05	[Saint]	...don't bust a hump over it, its only a very small defect.
11:22:29	[Saint]	it'd be nice if it wasn't there of course, but, its not worth going insane over ;)
11:23:44	ukleinek	hmm, rockboxdev failed to download gcc-core-4.4.4.tar.bz2 for the 2nd time
11:24:01	[Saint]	download it manually then.
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11:56:45	alouette	hey o/
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12:16:28	ZeBuddha	hello there
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12:18:03	ZeBuddha	I was wondering if anyone could tell me whether the Cowon C2 is suported (or will be anytime soon) by rockbox? I've been searching around and from what I can see the c2 is basically a D2 with some (relatively) minor changes so perhaps it works already?
12:19:38	lebellium	I don't think someone already tried... I disassembled mine yesterday. Unfortunately I broke it but I have hardware pictures and I'll post a disassembly guide on ABI sooner or later
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12:27:59	ZeBuddha	ok, thanks :)
12:29:11	ZeBuddha	guess I'll just have to be patient. Sorry to hear about yours though :/
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12:34:53	pamaury	chip errata are really nice
12:35:16	pamaury	you shouldn't use XXX but keep in mind that YYYY is broken so don't do ZZZZ until TTTT is reached otherwise universe will collapse
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12:37:53	CIA-14	New commit by buschel (r30210): Submit FS #12196. Adds support for embedded album art (jpg) with APEv2 tags.
12:41:43	CIA-14	r30210 build result: All green
12:48:05		Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.18/20110614230723])
12:48:21	[Saint]	ZeBuddha: Patience alone will do nothing.
12:48:39	[Saint]	If you want someone (other than yourself) to start working on it, you need to do some work yourself.
12:48:48	[Saint]	this doesn't have to be coding.
12:49:18	[Saint]	Find as much out about the player as you can, open a page in the wiki about it, dissassemble and scan it.
12:49:24	[Saint]	find datasheets if you can.
12:49:39	[Saint]	If you expect someone else to do it, you may as well assume it will never happen.
12:49:52	[Saint]	I know that sounds harsh, but its pretty much fact.
12:50:53	[Saint]	check out the NewPorts wiki page for the steps you should be taking if you actually want to see this happen in your lifetime ;)
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12:56:01	z180	teach your bluebot what saint said
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13:21:40	*	evilnick would really like to re-open the scrobbling on Android debate if possible
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13:27:27	[Saint]	...not that badly, apparently ;)
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13:49:40	JdGordon	evilnick: well... come up with a patch :)
13:49:51		Quit robin0800 (Remote host closed the connection)
13:50:12	evilnick	JdGordon: Hmmmm, you know full well that I don't code, I just whinge :)
13:50:38	JdGordon	i know, i know :)
13:51:37	JdGordon	re scrobbling, imo we should do it in a rbutil app which has suppport for all scrobbler apis we can support
13:51:47	JdGordon	rbutil shold also managle themes and updates
13:54:03	*	[Saint] doesn't think mangling themes is a good idea ;)
13:54:09	[Saint]	Some of them are crap enough :P
13:54:20	JdGordon	wtf is managle? :D
13:55:02	*	evilnick just wants a simple/easy way to scrobble from a device that is 95% of the time connected to the internet. Makes no sense to have to use a separate app/website to submit the plays when it could be done within the RB app
13:55:39	JdGordon	noone is arguing against it :) just noone wants to do the work
13:55:54	JdGordon	but it is something we should do
13:56:18	JdGordon	some people dont like the idea of supportingmultiple API's (which i tinhk is idiotic)
13:57:35	*	evilnick is confused now!
13:57:48	evilnick	I thought that the patch in FS had already done the work
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13:58:20	JdGordon	is there?
13:58:44	JdGordon	thunderbirds ftw
13:58:46	[Saint]	there is/was? probably quite out of sync now.
13:58:50	JdGordon	dun da da daaaaa
13:58:59	JdGordon	wrong channel ftl :p
14:00
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14:21:14	lasser	gbl08ma: hi! I just saw your website and the hint to my counter. I improved the script a bit more, now it's also usable on an e200 though some keys are missing. Have a look, please: http://lassowski.dyndns.org/BierderLOG/downloads/countawasp.lua
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14:51:08	gbl08ma	lasser: looks great, I'll put it on my website with all the credit to you, once I take some time to do it.
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15:30:26	lasser	gbl08ma: unfortunately I can't test this thing on other players. And I don't know if somebody else than me is interested in it. But if yes, can I open a tracker task for it?
15:36:36	[Saint]	lasser: There's nothing stopping you from opening a task on flyspray.
15:36:36	[Saint]	Of course, you only should do that if you actually plan to develop it to a point where it can be accepted into SVN
15:36:37	[Saint]	ie. runs on all players it possibly can, has keymaps for those targets, etc.
15:37:30		Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
15:37:32	[Saint]	It might pay, if you do plan to get it accepted, to make it more of a generic counter...rather than one aimed specifically at counting wasps and flying insects. IIUC, this would only mean changing the name.
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16:09:40	*	ukleinek has a (trivial) patch and wonders if he needs another account for it to put it on fs
16:09:49	ukleinek	I already have a wiki-account
16:11:49	sideral	If you plan to contribute and report bugs regularly, you should get an FS account. It's simpler (and more automatic) to set up than a Wiki account
16:11:52	AlexP	you do
16:11:57	AlexP	They aren't linked
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16:13:30	*	ukleinek is waiting for his OS to time out the ipv6 connection to rockbox.org
16:16:19	lasser	[Saint]: is it possible to realize these keymaps in lua? And how?
16:18:17	ukleinek	hmm, flyspray claimed to have sent a confirmation thingie via jabber, but I didn't receive anything
16:19:22	*	[Saint] is not sure if pluginlib can be used by LUA.
16:19:36	[Saint]	someone more knowledgeable than I needs to answer that
16:20:57	sideral	ukleinek: I've never tried FS's Jabber notification, but know for sure that email notification works
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16:25:00	ukleinek	sideral: and now? reregistering doesn't work and recovering a password doesn't work either :-(
16:25:36	[Saint]	there's no password to recover if the account was never verified.
16:25:45	[Saint]	this is how I understand it.
16:25:46	ukleinek	obviously, yes
16:25:56	*	ukleinek didn't get a mail, too
16:27:16	sideral	ukleinek: Now is the time I'd summon Zagor, but I think he's still on vacation
16:28:32	sideral	Not sure who else would be able to have a look at your stuck FS registration
16:28:41	sideral	sorry about this
16:29:42	sideral	did you give FS an email address and enable email notification at all? perhaps the email just takes a while...
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16:32:41	ukleinek	sideral: I gave an email and jabber account and selected jabber
16:35:16	sideral	ukleinek: I suggest to create a second account and sort it out later when Zagor returns
16:35:25	Torne	It's entirely possible that nobody has ever used the jabber thing before ;)
16:35:28	Torne	it probably doesn't work.
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16:37:59	sideral	ukleinek: If you insist on getting the user name right the first time, let me check if I can find out when the first registration expires
16:40:38	sideral	ukleinek: No, I cannot. I did find my old confirmation email, but it doesn't spell out the registration timeout
16:44:19	ukleinek	sideral: thanks
16:44:38	*	ukleinek just collects patches for now and retries in a few days
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17:30:54	saratoga	in that microphone commit, should I also have scaled pcm_rec_dma_get_peak_buffer?
17:31:08	saratoga	its not clear to me if the peak buffer expects values to be scaled to 16 bits or not
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18:27:34	Buschel	hmm, why do not all avaiable covers show up when using the pictureflow plugin? I do only see some of the available album covers
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18:37:20	gbl08ma	Buschel: Embedded album art, although now supported in the WPS, AFAIK is not scanned by PictureFlow (unfortunately), and show up as question marks. Are you sure the albums that don't appear have a standalone AA image?
18:37:54	Buschel	they don't have, but funnily there are no stand alone pictures either
18:38:42	gbl08ma	i think albums without AA show in Pictureflow as question marks. let me check.
18:39:39	gbl08ma	yep, all the albums without stand-alone AA still show as question marks.
18:40:10	gbl08ma	try to exit out of pictureflow and then enter again, sometimes it triggers an update if it notices DB changes
18:40:28	Buschel	will do this now
18:41:13	gbl08ma	if it still didn't work, PictureFlow menu -> Rebuild Cache, exit out and enter again. it should rebuild the AA cache (something that might take some time if you have much music...)
18:41:49	Buschel	no change
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18:42:14	gbl08ma	rebuild cache if you haven't done so...
18:42:41	Buschel	re-building now
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18:43:18	gbl08ma	if they still don't appear after a cache rebuild, check if the albums that don't appear in the pictureflow appear in the database (pictureflow uses the DB to get Album info AFAIK)
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18:48:50	Buschel	ok, now it does not show up anything. maybe the "old" covers were cached? I just deleted all stand-alone cover arts and moved them to embedded art
18:50:14	gbl08ma	obviously, that's why none shows. embedded art is NOT scanned by pictureflow
18:50:26	Buschel	at least it does what it should :)
18:50:50	gbl08ma	feel free to work on pictureflow embedded AA. I'd appreciate it much :)
18:51:06	gbl08ma	who is the creator of pictureflow at the end?
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18:54:32	Buschel	I am not sure
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18:57:14	Buschel	or to be more precise -> I don't know
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19:01:19	bertrik	Which embedded AA should be used in pictureflow anyway? What if there is more than one file per album with embedded AA?
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19:06:08	gbl08ma	good point. so, embedded AA keeps being a non-practical solution in Rockbox in my opinion.
19:09:18	sideral	bertrik: The pragmatic way would be to use the first file of the album and be done with it
19:09:30	Buschel	well, that could be solved via either showing the last found or the first found during the scan. this is similar to what we do with multiple genre tags as well
19:09:40	Buschel	sideral: exactly :)
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19:24:20	kugelp	gbl08ma: embedded aa in pf is not supported
19:25:29	Buschel	and will never be? or: mr. someone would need to implement it?
19:25:43	kugelp	the latter :-)
19:26:13	kugelp	just saying its not a bug because its a known and documented limitation
19:28:43	gbl08ma	I already thought of how embedded AA would be scanned in PictureFlow and some problems arise...
19:30:11	gbl08ma	To read embedded AA, the scanner would need to open each file, read its tags, read the embedded AA, put the AA in cache, close the file. Now, think on this operation block repeated 1000 times for each audio file...
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19:54:02	sideral	gbl08ma: You don't have to do this for each file of an album, but only for one. The DB tells you which files belong to an album.
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19:55:09	kugelp	I think the db should index albumart
19:55:37	Llorean	I wouldn't assume all files within the same 'album' had the same art.
19:55:38	kugelp	with embedded its lots more useful than before
19:56:03	Llorean	For example, for an award nominees album, someone might choose to replace the album art with individual album art for each song if they're embedding it anyway
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19:56:31	gbl08ma	ok, but what if I have 1000 albums, something perfectly possible on big iPod Video... would pictureflow need to read tags from 1000 files? it'd be too slow, I think.
19:56:49	gbl08ma	or if like Llorean said, I want to see the album art for each track...
19:57:27	Llorean	gbl08ma: Or you're like many people, who just have a collection of hundreds / thousands of singles you've bought through iTunes with few (if any) complete albums.
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19:57:57	Llorean	kugelp: Maybe just index a bool of whether a given file has it embedded or not?
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19:58:18	gbl08ma	for albums with multiple AA, we could do something that's eye candy... on the pictureflow, the AA for that album would consist of four tiles with some (randomly chosen) of the AAs of that album. but, that's me dreaming about eye candy...
19:58:21	Llorean	Or some sort of thumbprint to identify files that have indentical album art.
20:00
20:06:25	sideral	kugel: In which way could the DB index album art? That is, what queries would you like to run, and what should be the result?
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20:38:26	kugelp	sideral: pf could query. or thumbnails when browsing
20:39:18	kugelp	of course the skin engine too
20:39:31	sideral	what would they query?
20:40:15	sideral	are you suggesting to store the entire image / thumbnail in the DB?
20:40:24	kugelp	some data structure containing sufficient information
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20:40:35	kugelp	no
20:41:23	ender\|	ok, this one seems to have a real IP, but seems like there's no reply
20:41:40	ender\|	argh, wrong channel
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20:52:10	CIA-14	New commit by bertrik (r30211): battery bench: fix redundant '#' in the battery bench instruction header
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20:55:17	CIA-14	r30211 build result: All green
20:56:38	bertrik	Torne, you worked on power management on the ipod video, didn't you?
20:56:49	saratoga	i guess a flag indicating if a file has embedded album art would make sense
20:56:52	bertrik	(or was it ipod color)
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20:56:57	saratoga	then you know which files you need to scan
20:57:00	Torne	i hve done various things :)
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20:57:25	saratoga	and that could probably be generalized to allow things like compilation albums with multiple different pieces of coverart
20:57:35	lixxus	is there someone i can go to follow the status of the toshiba S bootloader development status
20:57:48	saratoga	lixxus: i think theres a wiki page on it
20:57:50		Quit gbl08ma (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
20:58:09	bertrik	I enabled readout of ISTAT on the ipod nano 1g this weekend so I'm now able to see the current consumption. Oddly I see about 24 mA consumption while idle and the same while playing mp3.
20:58:16	lixxus	but there is no new news
20:58:23	lixxus	its been same for a while now
20:58:28	saratoga	well yeah, i don't think anyone has looked at that in ages
20:58:51	clockcycle\|wrk	anyone here albe to walk me through rockboxing a clip+?
20:58:52	lixxus	i have 1.3 stock firmware on mine
20:59:05	lixxus	and i dont think beastpatcher works on 1.3, but only on 1.2
20:59:15	saratoga	clockcycle\|wrk: just follow the directions in the manual
20:59:32	Torne	it should work on 1.3
20:59:46		Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:59:49	clockcycle\|wrk	they arent too clear, and i get an err unable to confirm firmware
21:00
21:00:01	lixxus	i tried it on 1.3 and it doesnt install
21:00:09	saratoga	clockcycle\|wrk: then feel free to ask questions about the step you don't understand
21:00:27	clockcycle\|wrk	automatic with installer comes up with err unable to confirm firmware
21:00:37	saratoga	did you provide it with a firmware file?
21:01:00	saratoga	usually that error means you've provided it with a file thats not a firmware, or nothing at all IIRC
21:01:45	lixxus	is the toshiba s project still alive, and will it become stable at one stage
21:02:00	Torne	lixxus: Nobody knows how to fix the boot issues on the Beast
21:02:01	saratoga	depends if someone works on it
21:02:14	Torne	I spent a lot of time disassembling the bootloader only to disprove most of our theories
21:02:29	lixxus	so its really hard
21:02:30	Torne	If someone spends a bunch more time staring at it, maybe it will get figured out
21:02:34	Torne	mayeb it won't.
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21:02:58	lixxus	i guess i will have to look at another player then
21:03:04	lixxus	because i really miss using rockbox
21:03:20	Torne	You could try the single-boot bootloader
21:03:26	Torne	It doesn't require the original firmware at all
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21:03:41	lixxus	but how would i perform upgrades etc
21:03:45	Torne	what upgrades?
21:03:50	lixxus	because i am used to using rockbox utility
21:03:56	lixxus	for new firmwares etc
21:03:58	Torne	you only have to install the bootloader once
21:04:03	bertrik	saratoga, do you know if the latest clip+ bootloader got uploaded already?
21:04:24	saratoga	bertrik: i don't think it did, i pinged bagder a couple times about it but didn't hear about it
21:04:47	Torne	the problem is that the single boot bootloader appears to cause the beast to get upset and reformat itself more often
21:04:53	Torne	but that doesn't happen for everyone, so maybe you will be ok
21:05:07	lixxus	i think i might just sell it
21:05:11	lixxus	and buy a stable port
21:05:16	lixxus	save the hassle
21:05:30	gevaerts	lixxus: is it a 30 or a 60?
21:05:42	lixxus	30gb
21:05:50	saratoga	can we flash the gigabeats firmware loader? i wonder if it'd be possible to just skip everything after hardware init
21:06:13	lixxus	i dont know which player to replace it with
21:06:16	Torne	saratoga: We can in theory, yes, it's just a NOR flash
21:06:31	lixxus	i want ideally over 60gb but in small form factor
21:06:32	Torne	hardware init on the imx.31 is frigging massive thoguh :)
21:06:56	Torne	I looked for possible places to prod to dual boot from flash but didn't find anything promising that left any kind of recovery option open.
21:07:13	Torne	there are various things i know how to do, like disabling the reformat-on-error behaviour :0
21:07:16	Torne	but it doesn't make it *boot8
21:07:18	Torne	just not reformat
21:07:24	Torne	so you can't fix the device without taking the hard disk out
21:07:32	Torne	and then, er, guessing what it wants you to fix :)
21:07:50	lixxus	whats peoples opinion on opid video 80gb ?
21:07:58	lixxus	ipod^
21:08:03	Torne	the ipod video works fine for music
21:08:05	saratoga	what about something like on AMS where we put in a button check that either jumps to rockbox, or if a button is held, continues to the OF's recovery code
21:08:14	Torne	saratoga: Right, but where do you put it?
21:08:22	saratoga	somewhere after init :)
21:08:34	Torne	Oh, I mean, where do you put it such that you can't brick it
21:08:40		Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
21:08:44	Torne	if you don't care about the process being safe it's easy :)
21:08:48	saratoga	you know where it checks the hard disk partition right? around there would be a good place
21:09:13	saratoga	just a if(GPIO_X) then rockbox(), else nothing()
21:09:14	Torne	i meant putting it somewhere where you can do an erase and overwrite the old code in a way that cannot brick it
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21:09:40	saratoga	well a fall through button check that continues into the OF is fairly safe assuming you don't mess up the logic
21:09:56	Torne	it isn't if you fail to flash it successfully
21:09:56	saratoga	i think we only bricked one or two clips doing that for AMS :)
21:10:19	Torne	if you leave a chunk of the bootloader set to FF FF FF FF FF it is not so happy :)
21:10:43	saratoga	you mean due to hardware error or programming error?
21:10:46	Torne	Yes
21:10:58	Torne	there will be no way to unbrick it on failure, i mean
21:11:05	Torne	unlike the sansas, which can be unbricked if you are determined enough
21:11:18	Torne	the boot config on the beast doesn't have any fallbacks
21:11:23	Torne	it just boots directly to the NOR
21:11:47	Torne	the external boot hardware only exists on the part of the schematic that's not present on actual players :)
21:12:08	Torne	so yeah. if you think that's acceptable then someone could do it
21:12:11	saratoga	we didn't find out about the unbrick on the sansas until over a year later
21:12:13	Torne	it would be some amount of work
21:12:19	saratoga	we thought it was like the GBS actually
21:12:21	Torne	but it's not difficult to work out how
21:12:47	Torne	i was looking specifically for an opportunity to do a partial erase on the bootloader such that it would be able to continue to its own recovery mode on error
21:13:00	Torne	i didn't find one, but i didn't look for very long
21:13:40	lixxus	just out of interest what players are you running rockbox on guys
21:13:58	Torne	lots :)
21:14:05	Torne	generally the answer.
21:14:32	lixxus	lol
21:14:47	*	bertrik uses his sansa clip+ most, but also has a sansa e200, c200, clip, meizu m6sp, meizu m3 and an ipod nano 1g
21:15:28	saratoga	when people ask what player i usually suggest the most impossible to find
21:17:16	lixxus	i think i might go back to sansa
21:18:34	lixxus	sansa clip + 8gb
21:18:49	lixxus	does the micro sd slot support 32gb cards
21:19:40	bertrik	yes
21:20:37	lixxus	which class is recommend for good transfer speeds
21:22:46	saratoga	doesn't matter
21:23:51	lixxus	the next release 4.0 will be a major upgrade in code/features etc ?
21:24:05	gevaerts	Why would the next release be 4.10?
21:24:09	gevaerts	*4.0
21:25:12		Quit ReimuHakurei (Quit: If I use this, I will disappear, and Shana-tan will remain...)
21:25:20	saratoga	if we ever do a 4.0 release it'll probably be for something big
21:25:50	lixxus	i see , which would be ? :O
21:26:10	saratoga	sometime between and forever
21:26:27	saratoga	between the past and forever
21:28:03	lixxus	you said something big . i was just curious what that big feature would be
21:28:41	saratoga	when we figure out it'll be in the release notes
21:28:41	gevaerts	I think you got it reversed
21:28:57	saratoga	and yeah you said big, not us
21:28:59	gevaerts	We're not going to say "4.0 is in two months, better work on something big"
21:29:11	gevaerts	It's more like "wow, this is worth a major version bump"
21:30:06	lixxus	i dont mind waiting . it is just interest to know what the developers have planned, interesting ideas etc
21:30:33	Torne	didn't we discuss maybe making the next version 4.0 anyway
21:30:37	Torne	because version numbers are meaningless
21:30:39	Torne	and 3.10 looks ugly
21:30:53	saratoga	i thought 4 was going to be whenever we get android stable? or did that change
21:30:55	Torne	the current code is very different from 3.0 :)
21:31:05	*	bertrik still thinks we should have nick names for releases :)
21:31:09	Torne	personally I prefer chrome-style versions
21:31:11	lixxus	android app would be really cool
21:31:13	Torne	3, 4, 5, 6, 7
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21:31:21	saratoga	we already have an android app
21:31:31	Torne	you don't need major.minor unless you are maintaining an API/ABI that you promise not to break
21:31:36	lixxus	bring out the desire to check
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21:32:28	saratoga	i think we ended up doing major.minor because we ended up stuck on 2.5 for so many years
21:32:44	saratoga	it was such a huge jump to 3.0 that it seemed like subsequent releases were minor
21:32:48	Torne	i just don't like 3.10
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21:32:58	Torne	because lots of people do not understand that style of versioning
21:33:05	Torne	and yes those people are dumb/wrong/whatever
21:33:18	Torne	but it doesn't matter enough either way to not cater to them :)
21:33:41	Torne	so yeah, imo we might as well make the next one 4.0
21:33:43	lixxus	whats the android app name
21:33:49	lixxus	cant find it on market
21:33:50	Torne	whether we make the one after that 4.1 or 5.0 i dunno, but hey.
21:33:51	gbl08ma_	isn't major.minor working great? isn't the project being successful? I think yes. why change it?
21:33:53	Torne	it's not on the market.
21:34:01	lixxus	oh
21:34:04	Torne	gbl08ma_: It's never gotten to the point of being ambiguous before
21:34:08	gevaerts	Torne: maybe we can skip 3.10 and go straight to 3.11?
21:34:11	Torne	so, you can't draw any conclusions from the past
21:34:17	Torne	gevaerts: heh
21:34:37	Torne	gevaerts: seriously though, do you trust the users to know the difference between 3.11 and 3.1.1 ?
21:34:39	*	bertrik has a release nick name for that
21:35:01	saratoga	well users get whatever rockbox utility gives them, so in practice its probably not a huge deal
21:35:08	gevaerts	Torne: ok. 3.a?
21:35:16	Torne	saratoga: but users already wildly misreport the version when they come back to report issues/etc
21:35:22	Torne	giving them yet another way to make a mistake is not ideal :)
21:35:34	gbl08ma_	I thought we didn't care much about the users, at the end, Rockbox is from devs to devs... isn't it what you say? and I think all devs know how to distiguish between 3.1.0 and 3.10
21:35:37	Torne	I can't think of a downside of calling it 4.0
21:35:47	Torne	gbl08ma_: Right, but it costs us nothing
21:35:56	Torne	the numbers don't mean anything
21:36:02	Torne	bigger numbers are more recent
21:36:07	Torne	that's the only thing that actually is required
21:36:13	saratoga	i propose that we argue abotu this until we deadlock and then don't bother doing releases for a few years
21:36:17	saratoga	thats worked well in the past
21:36:18	Torne	saratoga: Yay!
21:36:28	gevaerts	gbl08ma_: exactly. Confused users means annoyed developers :)
21:37:45	kepstin-laptop	Hmm. Is there any planned replacement for the Main Menu -> Playlists -> Create Playlist (root.m3u8) option, now that the Playlists menu is gone from SVN?
21:39:15	gbl08ma_	Torne, saratoga, gevaerts: well, I don't care much what version is it. At the end, what I find importance to is the release number, like r34567. I don't use stable releases, only SVNs :)
21:39:42	Torne	gbl08ma_: in which case don't argue against it
21:39:46	Torne	srsly.
21:39:56	saratoga	yes but people get mad when we don't do releases for some reason, or worse keep using some 3 year old build and complain that we haven't fixed bugs in 3 years
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21:40:45	bertrik	gbl08ma_, we might drop the release number when going git
21:40:56	Torne	the revision number, you mean
21:40:58	Torne	and yes, we will have to
21:41:12	Torne	there are various alternatives and they all suck for exciting reasons :)
21:41:15	saratoga	yeah i'm not sure how thats going to work
21:41:31	saratoga	i guess check out date would be good
21:41:37	Torne	yuck.
21:41:48	Torne	I am intending to go with git describe output
21:41:55	saratoga	or maybe check out data + seconds since midnight
21:41:58	Torne	and to tag the revision immediately after each branch point
21:42:30	Torne	so it'll look something like v3.10pre+47-g235ba42
21:42:46	Torne	The exact details of what we tag it as and so on can be debated :)
21:42:59	Torne	but the general scheme is about the only sensible option if you want to hae a sequential number in there
21:43:08	Torne	The problem is that it doesn't distinguish trunk from someone's private branch
21:43:12	Torne	but then, nor does any other scheme i can think of
21:43:17	gbl08ma_	what? git doesn't have revisions?
21:43:17	Torne	that being the joy of a DVCS
21:43:21	Torne	gbl08ma_: Nope
21:43:26	Torne	Even if it did they would be meaningless
21:43:31	saratoga	how does that work if we change things in the release branch
21:43:33	Torne	since more than one person can have the same revision
21:43:41	saratoga	does it just reference to when we branched the release?
21:43:58	Torne	saratoga: We'll be tagging the first commit on trunk after branching the release
21:44:05	saratoga	ok that makes sense
21:44:08	gbl08ma_	so if we use the checkout date, it'll be inaccurate... imagine a older version is checkout... how would we distinguish from the latest?
21:44:22	Torne	gbl08ma_: we aren't going to use the date
21:44:26	Torne	see above.
21:44:47	Torne	v3.10pre+47-g123ba42 means "47 commits after the commit tagged as v3.10pre"
21:44:55	Torne	(and SHA1 hash starting 123ba42)
21:45:12	Torne	So yeah. The numbers will go up one at a time like a revision
21:45:31	Torne	but they will reset periodically when we cut a release branch
21:45:43	Torne	and they cannot be relied on to be exact, unfortunately
21:45:51	Torne	since if I make a local commit after that it will be +48
21:45:54	Torne	but so will yours
21:46:05		Quit liar (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
21:46:28	Torne	so yeah, there can be builds with the same version number that contain different code.
21:46:30	saratoga	we could just have the build system tag its builds with an "official" line or something
21:46:40	saratoga	that way we know if its built from our current git repo or a local branch
21:46:47	Torne	saratoga: yah.
21:46:54	Torne	that's probably the easiest way
21:47:05	Torne	the numbers are still useful for local branches
21:47:10	Torne	it's still meaningful to you
21:47:13	saratoga	and probably good enough for support purposes
21:47:16	Torne	it's only confusing if you give your build to someone else
21:47:18	gbl08ma_	but, that makes my local builds with as-is checkout unofficial!
21:47:23	Torne	gbl08ma_: yes
21:47:27	Torne	so?
21:47:33	kepstin-laptop	that's similar to how most linux distributions add their distro name to the kernel version of their own builds. - they only support their own builds.
21:47:56	Torne	gbl08ma_: there is literally no way to tell
21:48:14	Torne	unless you can invent one )
21:48:36	Torne	Well, okay it's possible in theory, you could have version.sh go and inspect git.rockbox.org
21:48:37	gbl08ma_	that means my local builds will be unsupported even if I make no modifications to them? (I guess I could lie at which version I was using...)
21:48:45	Torne	hm?
21:48:49	Torne	nobody said it would be unsupported
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21:49:09	saratoga	we actually did officially consider local builds unsupported, or at least less well supported anyway
21:49:14	Torne	the hash is unique and meaningful
21:49:23	saratoga	since usually when someone reported a problem we'd just tell them to try our build and see if it went away
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21:49:47	Torne	If your build is v3.10pre+47-g123ba42 and the "official" build is v3.10pre+47-official-g123ba42
21:49:55	Torne	then we know they are the same source
21:49:59	Torne	beause the commit hash is the same.
21:50:19	Torne	it just means that to be sure you have to check
21:50:37	Torne	the lack of some official tag is a reminder that this checking may be required
21:51:40	gbl08ma_	bah. too much complication for something which is currently so simple. Well, natural evolution of things forces us to change, isn't it? I guess from on now I'll use official builds again. at the end, I do nothing with my local checkout.
21:51:46	Torne	i am open to alternatives :)
21:52:01	Torne	gbl08ma_: also, nothing will stop you passing the same arg that the build system does :)
21:52:10	Torne	it's not like it's a signature
21:52:25	*	Torne shrugs
21:52:32	Torne	Seriously, I am not happy with this either :)
21:52:46	kepstin-laptop	gbl08ma_: but wouldn't you rather have v3.10pre+47-gb08ma-awesome-g123ba42 so people know how awesome you are for building your own rockbox?
21:52:49	Torne	but it is pretty difficult to tell what is "official" in a DVCS
21:52:53	Torne	by definition
21:56:08	Torne	Anyway, I will be experimenting with version.sh at some point and will see what I can come up with
21:57:22	Torne	I guess it could poke through your remotes looking for one that looks like our upstream and compare to that
21:57:30	Torne	that might sometimes fail though :)
21:57:33	Torne	if people do weird things with git.
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22:00
22:04:22		Quit gbl08ma_ (Quit: Saindo)
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22:06:46	AlexP	r.e. version of the next release - if we keep arguing until the next release point, I'll just make a random and arbitrary decision :)
22:07:51	Torne	AlexP: 3*phi?
22:08:06	AlexP	Sure :)
22:08:09	Torne	4.85410197 is higher than 3.9, it'll work. ;)
22:08:25	saratoga	we should have every release have equal magnitude but advancing phase
22:08:27	AlexP	I'm open to bungs incidentally :)
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22:09:54	*	bertrik wants a rockbox 3.10 for workgroups
22:10:28	kepstin-laptop	wasn't that 3.11?
22:11:17	AlexP	Rockbox ME maybe
22:11:44	CIA-14	New commit by lenzone10 (r30212): Updated italian translation.
22:14:42	CIA-14	r30212 build result: All green
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22:20:09	pamaury	arg: imx233 errata: Undetectable data corruption can occur during IN transfer in
22:20:09	pamaury	isochronous mode.
22:20:09	pamaury	Workaround: Do not use high-speed isochronous endpoints in
22:20:09	DBUG	Enqueued KICK pamaury
22:20:09	pamaury	high-speed. :-/
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22:30:17	pamaury	:-o
22:30:19	pamaury	There is a phase error of 1/2 sample between the left and right ADC (62.5 μs at 8 KSPS and
22:30:20	pamaury	11.34 μs at 44.1 KSPS).
22:31:01	amiconn	saratoga: Maybe the db could have a file offset pointing to embedded album art if present. -1 could then mean no album art
22:33:11	saratoga	that would make sense
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22:42:00	Buschel	bertrik: regarding your measurements on the nano1G -> the current consumption for idle and mp3-playback is expected to be nearly the same. the CPU is not boosting at all when playing mp3.
22:42:09	Buschel	(except during buffering)
22:42:36	bertrik	Buschel, ok
22:42:58	bertrik	But I expected it to be a bit lower when idle because the cpu should be sleeping more then
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22:44:08	Buschel	wasn't TheSeven also mentioning that CPU sleep did not work for the nano2G as well when using rockbox?
22:44:56	bertrik	I don't remember, nano 1g and nano 2g use a completely different soc (portalplayer vs samsung s5l870x IIRC)
22:45:30	Buschel	yes. I wanted to point out there might be a general issue with rockbox not allowing the CPU's to enter the sleep mode
22:46:33	saratoga	bertrik: http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/30mhz-2.png (take on PP5024)
22:46:51	saratoga	sleeping the CPU saves only a tiny bit of power at 30MHz
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22:51:15	saratoga	i should really find time to do those measurements on AMS
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22:51:56	bertrik	saratoga, nice measurements, still a bit odd that it make so little difference
22:52:14	saratoga	odd that PP sucked at chip design :)
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22:54:17	[7]	the CPU sleep stuff itself does seem to work fine, but there's something that makes us use more power than apple
22:54:25	[7]	that's both on the nano2g and classic
22:54:48	[7]	i'm not sure if it's some kind of deeper SoC sleep that they're using, or if it's just some peripheral that we don't handle correctly
22:55:17	saratoga	i always wondered what those ~4Hz power spikes were on PP5024
22:55:22	saratoga	probably us polling something
22:56:29	saratoga	also kind of neat: http://duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/80mhz-2.png
22:56:55	bertrik	I see the PP502x reconfigures the PLL, which takes a bit of time. I wonder if we can't do this instantly (but we've probably looked at this exhaustively already)
22:57:04	saratoga	you can see how the power usage increases only a bit when the second core powers up
22:57:18	saratoga	bertrik: yeah we can, theres a patch
22:57:45	saratoga	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/9800
22:58:55	saratoga	it didn't really seem to make a difference though, so there wasn't much argument for it
22:59:05	saratoga	reconfiguring the PLL is fast enough
23:00
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23:08:31	bertrik	That patch seems to do two things at once: 1) lower the normal freq 2) use different frequency switching. Even if it doesn't gain much, it's just nice to do it like this and even has fewer lines of code.
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