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#rockbox log for 2011-07-25

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01:57:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:00:19CIA-14New commit by saratoga (r30209): Convert AMSv2 microphone samples from 14 to 16 bit before storing them.
03:04:32CIA-14r30209 build result: All green
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03:14:52evildaemonI appear to be unable to flush the rockbox database.
03:15:32[Saint]open the volume in <explorer_of_your_choice> and delete all .tcd files, done.
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03:41:32*jhMikeS wonders why r30209 is only for the microphone when it's always 14-bit samples
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04:25:17saratogai don't seem to be able to reproduce the DC offset reported when pausing the sansa clip
04:25:33saratogamy player drops towards zero as expected, with only a bit of white noise left when paused
04:28:03saratogai get similar results both through high impedance and through headphones
04:55:56saratoga^^ clip+ rather, not Clip
04:56:05saratogatesting on the ClipV2 i get a similar result
04:56:30saratogaabove 0dB or so I also get a faint click changing the volume, but its due to the small dc offset present, on the order of a few mV
04:56:34saratoganot sure where it comes from
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05:26:52saratogasoap, JdGordon: ban Idella Yerbich
05:32:43evildaemonI'm not really having much luck. I get Rockbox installed: "Oh great lets try it out." I turn it on, select a track AND. "Undefined instruction at 09E86BF4" My face: -.- Me: "Well okay then! Lets just google this." About a minute later "I just had to delete .rockbox, sorry for spamming the list." Me: "Okay, lets just open konsole here and rm .rockbox" Again about a minute later, one rm -r AND "Cannot remove, read-only filesystem" My
05:33:31JdGordonif you actually want help you need to rethink your sentences...
05:33:47evildaemonYeah, that was a rant i wrote about 30 mins ago.
05:34:07evildaemonIt was left on the prompt.
05:36:46[Saint]Howdy, 480x800 RaaA full-touch "cabbie" theme, needs testers:
05:36:53tmzt_evildaemon: it sounds like the filesystem is corrupt
05:36:59tmzt_linux will push it to read only if that happens
05:37:08evildaemonThat was my suspicion.
05:37:10tmzt_you can pastebin dmesg for me and I can take a look
05:39:05[Saint]This theme is at a point where I consider it to be "finished"...unless there are any additions that testers believe would be beneficial to the theme.
05:39:31[Saint]Once I have completed the 320x480 port of it, I will update my forum thread and start a push to get it committed.
05:40:56[Saint](please discount the AA font as being a part of the theme, for now, it will change...the numerals need to be fixed width, which ewas not possible at the time the font was converted)
05:41:41 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend)
05:42:36JdGordon[Saint]: volume icons is still fucked
05:43:05[Saint]define "fucked"?
05:43:13JdGordonnot appearing
05:43:41[Saint]Blargh! I haven't touched it since I got it working for evilnick...I wonder what gives.
05:43:59[Saint]I'll flip to Ubuntu and poke at it in the SDl app.
05:44:23 Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.)
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05:52:24[Saint]JdGordon: Something must have gone wrong with the extraction...its working fine here.
05:52:37[Saint]240x320 uses the same code, working on device.
05:52:47[Saint]SDL app displays 480x800 correctly.
05:53:30JdGordonsomething very wierd is happening
05:53:44JdGordonive got the version with tabs now after i deleted rockbox and reextracted
05:54:05[Saint]....what the?!?!
05:54:08[Saint]how? ;)
05:54:09 Quit Rob2223 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
05:55:12[Saint]I have an updated .apk floating around here somewhere if it helps. Its possible that the .apk you installed was from me, and had the theme included in the .apk
05:55:27[Saint]but, that would be a VERY old build.
05:55:43JdGordonyeah, gimme the apk
05:55:53[Saint]right, one sec.
05:57:18JdGordoni dont have a heap of time right now though
05:57:22JdGordonlink it and remind me tonight
05:57:33[Saint]will do.
05:57:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:59:29[Saint]my last build is a few revisions below svn head anyway, I doubt there's been any relevant commits since then but it'll give me a chance to make updated builds for the hell of it, anyway.
06:01:19JdGordonthe build on my phone is weeks old so meh :)
06:03:12JdGordon[Saint]: don't you want to play with the tiled main menu patchs :)
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06:14:15[Saint]I do, yes...but, one thing at a time ;)
06:14:30*JdGordon would like it in for 3.9+1 :)
06:15:05JdGordonand it would be great if the default android/big-screen-touch skins used it
06:15:17[Saint]I don't want to spin off onto a tangent with this theme that further delays the 320x480 port. And playing with tiled menus almost certainly will :P
06:15:47[Saint]Lets just say...I'm perfectly capable of distracting myself, thankyouverymuch ;)
06:17:35[Saint]I'm not so sure about just "Android-in-General" using tiled menus, ...but I will most certainly look into doing so when I do the tablet full-touch themes.
06:18:32[Saint]A while back I figured out a way to do almost the same thing without your patch, but it relied on a foolish amount of code to do things that are now very simple with your patch, and all the text needed to be bitmaps.
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06:42:34[Saint]JdGordon: Is it a possibility to add "Playlist Catalogue" to %cs? Currently whilst in the catalogue it displays the "Settings" %cs field for some reason.
06:42:40[Saint]I haven't looked into why.
06:42:54JdGordonit should be the last item since a few days ago
06:43:19[Saint]Oh...right, I missed that. Thanks. I'll update the theme to accomodate this.
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07:58:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:28:36[Saint]bertrik: (logs) <−− "iLike" (OF theme clone) with anti-aliased fonts.
09:28:55[Saint](for iPod Nano 1~2G)
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09:36:42[Saint]JdGordon: A theme using the playlist catalogue %cs field displays the playlist catalogue true condition during startup...
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09:38:52[Saint]no *so* obvious on a flash target...but terribly obvious on a HDD target.
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09:39:56[Saint]it displays the correct %cs field whilst navigating around the playlist catalogueitself, but for some reason it displays it during startup also.
09:40:05[Saint]*catalogue itself
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09:58:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:27:08JdGordon[Saint]: hmm... how long does it take to go to the correct one?
10:27:21JdGordonor, what is your start screen setting set to?
10:28:35[Saint]JdGordon: My start screen is set to main menu, it takes 1~2 seconds on a flash device, 5~6 on HDD
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10:40:07JdGordon[Saint]: ok, should be fixable :)
10:40:29[Saint]Yeah, I was more wondering if you were aware of it or not.
10:42:21JdGordon[Saint]: try
10:43:10Taco_Princess[Saint]: Did anyone happen to respond to my issue while I was away?
10:43:29[Saint]Taco_Princess: Remind me again what that issue was...
10:43:45*[Saint] doesn't quite have the steele trap mind he used to anymore ;)
10:43:53[Saint]*steel too
10:45:42[Saint]Taco_Princess: ....?
10:45:53Taco_PrincessI was chatting in another channel, sorry
10:46:20Taco_PrincessI couldn't get the pitch_detector application to work properly.
10:46:46[Saint]Oh, then no. To my knowledge there has been no talk of this since that day.
10:47:38Taco_PrincessThat's okay, thanks for your time.
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11:02:31[Saint]JdGordon: Before I forget... <−− theme and binary.
11:02:50JdGordonswap you, test the aboeve diff
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11:21:17[Saint]JdGordon: Unfortunately, nope :-S
11:21:21[Saint]still the same.
11:22:05[Saint]...don't bust a hump over it, its only a very small defect.
11:22:29[Saint]it'd be nice if it wasn't there of course, but, its not worth going insane over ;)
11:23:44ukleinekhmm, rockboxdev failed to download gcc-core-4.4.4.tar.bz2 for the 2nd time
11:24:01[Saint]download it manually then.
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11:56:45alouettehey o/
11:58:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:16:28ZeBuddhahello there
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12:18:03ZeBuddhaI was wondering if anyone could tell me whether the Cowon C2 is suported (or will be anytime soon) by rockbox? I've been searching around and from what I can see the c2 is basically a D2 with some (relatively) minor changes so perhaps it works already?
12:19:38lebelliumI don't think someone already tried... I disassembled mine yesterday. Unfortunately I broke it but I have hardware pictures and I'll post a disassembly guide on ABI sooner or later
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12:27:59ZeBuddhaok, thanks :)
12:29:11ZeBuddhaguess I'll just have to be patient. Sorry to hear about yours though :/
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12:34:53pamaurychip errata are really nice
12:35:16pamauryyou shouldn't use XXX but keep in mind that YYYY is broken so don't do ZZZZ until TTTT is reached otherwise universe will collapse
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12:37:53CIA-14New commit by buschel (r30210): Submit FS #12196. Adds support for embedded album art (jpg) with APEv2 tags.
12:41:43CIA-14r30210 build result: All green
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12:48:21[Saint]ZeBuddha: Patience alone will do nothing.
12:48:39[Saint]If you want someone (other than yourself) to start working on it, you need to do some work yourself.
12:48:48[Saint]this doesn't have to be coding.
12:49:18[Saint]Find as much out about the player as you can, open a page in the wiki about it, dissassemble and scan it.
12:49:24[Saint]find datasheets if you can.
12:49:39[Saint]If you expect someone else to do it, you may as well assume it will never happen.
12:49:52[Saint]I know that sounds harsh, but its pretty much fact.
12:50:53[Saint]check out the NewPorts wiki page for the steps you should be taking if you actually want to see this happen in your lifetime ;)
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12:56:01z180teach your bluebot what saint said
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13:21:40*evilnick would really like to re-open the scrobbling on Android debate if possible
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13:27:27[Saint]...not that badly, apparently ;)
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13:49:40JdGordonevilnick: well... come up with a patch :)
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13:50:12evilnickJdGordon: Hmmmm, you know full well that I don't code, I just whinge :)
13:50:38JdGordoni know, i know :)
13:51:37JdGordonre scrobbling, imo we should do it in a rbutil app which has suppport for *all* scrobbler apis we can support
13:51:47JdGordonrbutil shold also managle themes and updates
13:54:03*[Saint] doesn't think mangling themes is a good idea ;)
13:54:09[Saint]Some of them are crap enough :P
13:54:20JdGordonwtf is managle? :D
13:55:02*evilnick just wants a simple/easy way to scrobble from a device that is 95% of the time connected to the internet. Makes no sense to have to use a separate app/website to submit the plays when it could be done within the RB app
13:55:39JdGordonnoone is arguing against it :) just noone wants to do the work
13:55:54JdGordonbut it is something we should do
13:56:18JdGordonsome people dont like the idea of supportingmultiple API's (which i tinhk is idiotic)
13:57:35*evilnick is confused now!
13:57:48evilnickI thought that the patch in FS had already done the work
13:58:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:58:20JdGordonis there?
13:58:44JdGordonthunderbirds ftw
13:58:46[Saint]there is/was? probably quite out of sync now.
13:58:50JdGordondun da da daaaaa
13:58:59JdGordonwrong channel ftl :p
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14:21:14lassergbl08ma: hi! I just saw your website and the hint to my counter. I improved the script a bit more, now it's also usable on an e200 though some keys are missing. Have a look, please:
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14:51:08gbl08malasser: looks great, I'll put it on my website with all the credit to you, once I take some time to do it.
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15:30:26lassergbl08ma: unfortunately I can't test this thing on other players. And I don't know if somebody else than me is interested in it. But if yes, can I open a tracker task for it?
15:36:36[Saint]lasser: There's nothing stopping you from opening a task on flyspray.
15:36:36[Saint]Of course, you only should do that if you actually plan to develop it to a point where it can be accepted into SVN
15:36:37[Saint]ie. runs on all players it possibly can, has keymaps for those targets, etc.
15:37:30 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
15:37:32[Saint]It might pay, if you do plan to get it accepted, to make it more of a generic counter...rather than one aimed specifically at counting wasps and flying insects. IIUC, this would only mean changing the name.
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15:58:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:21 Part LinusN
16:09:40*ukleinek has a (trivial) patch and wonders if he needs another account for it to put it on fs
16:09:49ukleinekI already have a wiki-account
16:11:49sideralIf you plan to contribute and report bugs regularly, you should get an FS account. It's simpler (and more automatic) to set up than a Wiki account
16:11:52AlexPyou do
16:11:57AlexPThey aren't linked
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16:13:30*ukleinek is waiting for his OS to time out the ipv6 connection to
16:16:19lasser[Saint]: is it possible to realize these keymaps in lua? And how?
16:18:17ukleinekhmm, flyspray claimed to have sent a confirmation thingie via jabber, but I didn't receive anything
16:19:22*[Saint] is not sure if pluginlib can be used by LUA.
16:19:36[Saint]someone more knowledgeable than I needs to answer that
16:20:57sideralukleinek: I've never tried FS's Jabber notification, but know for sure that email notification works
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16:25:00ukleineksideral: and now? reregistering doesn't work and recovering a password doesn't work either :-(
16:25:36[Saint]there's no password to recover if the account was never verified.
16:25:45[Saint]this is how I understand it.
16:25:46ukleinekobviously, yes
16:25:56*ukleinek didn't get a mail, too
16:27:16sideralukleinek: Now is the time I'd summon Zagor, but I think he's still on vacation
16:28:32sideralNot sure who else would be able to have a look at your stuck FS registration
16:28:41sideralsorry about this
16:29:42sideraldid you give FS an email address and enable email notification at all? perhaps the email just takes a while...
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16:32:41ukleineksideral: I gave an email and jabber account and selected jabber
16:35:16sideralukleinek: I suggest to create a second account and sort it out later when Zagor returns
16:35:25TorneIt's entirely possible that nobody has ever used the jabber thing before ;)
16:35:28Torneit probably doesn't work.
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16:37:59sideralukleinek: If you insist on getting the user name right the first time, let me check if I can find out when the first registration expires
16:40:38sideralukleinek: No, I cannot. I did find my old confirmation email, but it doesn't spell out the registration timeout
16:44:19ukleineksideral: thanks
16:44:38*ukleinek just collects patches for now and retries in a few days
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17:30:54saratogain that microphone commit, should I also have scaled pcm_rec_dma_get_peak_buffer?
17:31:08saratogaits not clear to me if the peak buffer expects values to be scaled to 16 bits or not
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18:27:34Buschelhmm, why do not all avaiable covers show up when using the pictureflow plugin? I do only see some of the available album covers
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18:37:20gbl08maBuschel: Embedded album art, although now supported in the WPS, AFAIK is not scanned by PictureFlow (unfortunately), and show up as question marks. Are you sure the albums that don't appear have a standalone AA image?
18:37:54Buschelthey don't have, but funnily there are no stand alone pictures either
18:38:42gbl08mai think albums without AA show in Pictureflow as question marks. let me check.
18:39:39gbl08mayep, all the albums without stand-alone AA still show as question marks.
18:40:10gbl08matry to exit out of pictureflow and then enter again, sometimes it triggers an update if it notices DB changes
18:40:28Buschelwill do this now
18:41:13gbl08maif it still didn't work, PictureFlow menu -> Rebuild Cache, exit out and enter again. it should rebuild the AA cache (something that might take some time if you have much music...)
18:41:49Buschelno change
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18:42:14gbl08marebuild cache if you haven't done so...
18:42:41Buschelre-building now
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18:43:18gbl08maif they still don't appear after a cache rebuild, check if the albums that don't appear in the pictureflow appear in the database (pictureflow uses the DB to get Album info AFAIK)
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18:48:50Buschelok, now it does not show up anything. maybe the "old" covers were cached? I just deleted all stand-alone cover arts and moved them to embedded art
18:50:14gbl08maobviously, that's why none shows. embedded art is NOT scanned by pictureflow
18:50:26Buschelat least it does what it should :)
18:50:50gbl08mafeel free to work on pictureflow embedded AA. I'd appreciate it much :)
18:51:06gbl08mawho is the creator of pictureflow at the end?
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18:54:32BuschelI am not sure
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18:57:14Buschelor to be more precise -> I don't know
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19:01:19bertrikWhich embedded AA should be used in pictureflow anyway? What if there is more than one file per album with embedded AA?
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19:06:08gbl08magood point. so, embedded AA keeps being a non-practical solution in Rockbox in my opinion.
19:09:18sideralbertrik: The pragmatic way would be to use the first file of the album and be done with it
19:09:30Buschelwell, that could be solved via either showing the last found or the first found during the scan. this is similar to what we do with multiple genre tags as well
19:09:40Buschelsideral: exactly :)
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19:24:20kugelpgbl08ma: embedded aa in pf is not supported
19:25:29Buscheland will never be? or: mr. someone would need to implement it?
19:25:43kugelpthe latter :-)
19:26:13kugelpjust saying its not a bug because its a known and documented limitation
19:28:43gbl08maI already thought of how embedded AA would be scanned in PictureFlow and some problems arise...
19:30:11gbl08maTo read embedded AA, the scanner would need to open each file, read its tags, read the embedded AA, put the AA in cache, close the file. Now, think on this operation block repeated 1000 times for each audio file...
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19:54:02sideralgbl08ma: You don't have to do this for each file of an album, but only for one. The DB tells you which files belong to an album.
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19:55:09kugelpI think the db should index albumart
19:55:37LloreanI wouldn't assume all files within the same 'album' had the same art.
19:55:38kugelpwith embedded its lots more useful than before
19:56:03LloreanFor example, for an award nominees album, someone might choose to replace the album art with individual album art for each song if they're embedding it anyway
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19:56:31gbl08maok, but what if I have 1000 albums, something perfectly possible on big iPod Video... would pictureflow need to read tags from 1000 files? it'd be too slow, I think.
19:56:49gbl08maor if like Llorean said, I want to see the album art for each track...
19:57:27Lloreangbl08ma: Or you're like many people, who just have a collection of hundreds / thousands of singles you've bought through iTunes with few (if any) complete albums.
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19:57:57Lloreankugelp: Maybe just index a bool of whether a given file has it embedded or not?
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19:58:18gbl08mafor albums with multiple AA, we could do something that's eye candy... on the pictureflow, the AA for that album would consist of four tiles with some (randomly chosen) of the AAs of that album. but, that's me dreaming about eye candy...
19:58:21LloreanOr some sort of thumbprint to identify files that have indentical album art.
20:06:25sideralkugel: In which way could the DB index album art? That is, what queries would you like to run, and what should be the result?
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20:38:26kugelpsideral: pf could query. or thumbnails when browsing
20:39:18kugelpof course the skin engine too
20:39:31sideralwhat would they query?
20:40:15sideralare you suggesting to store the entire image / thumbnail in the DB?
20:40:24kugelpsome data structure containing sufficient information
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20:41:23ender|ok, this one seems to have a real IP, but seems like there's no reply
20:41:40ender|argh, wrong channel
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20:52:10CIA-14New commit by bertrik (r30211): battery bench: fix redundant '#' in the battery bench instruction header
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20:55:17CIA-14r30211 build result: All green
20:56:38bertrikTorne, you worked on power management on the ipod video, didn't you?
20:56:49saratogai guess a flag indicating if a file has embedded album art would make sense
20:56:52bertrik(or was it ipod color)
20:56:56 Join lixxus [0] (
20:56:57saratogathen you know which files you need to scan
20:57:00Tornei hve done various things :)
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20:57:25saratogaand that could probably be generalized to allow things like compilation albums with multiple different pieces of coverart
20:57:35lixxusis there someone i can go to follow the status of the toshiba S bootloader development status
20:57:48saratogalixxus: i think theres a wiki page on it
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20:58:09bertrikI enabled readout of ISTAT on the ipod nano 1g this weekend so I'm now able to see the current consumption. Oddly I see about 24 mA consumption while idle and the same while playing mp3.
20:58:16lixxusbut there is no new news
20:58:23lixxusits been same for a while now
20:58:28saratogawell yeah, i don't think anyone has looked at that in ages
20:58:51clockcycle|wrkanyone here albe to walk me through rockboxing a clip+?
20:58:52lixxusi have 1.3 stock firmware on mine
20:59:05lixxusand i dont think beastpatcher works on 1.3, but only on 1.2
20:59:15saratogaclockcycle|wrk: just follow the directions in the manual
20:59:32Torneit should work on 1.3
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20:59:49clockcycle|wrkthey arent too clear, and i get an err unable to confirm firmware
21:00:01lixxusi tried it on 1.3 and it doesnt install
21:00:09saratogaclockcycle|wrk: then feel free to ask questions about the step you don't understand
21:00:27clockcycle|wrkautomatic with installer comes up with err unable to confirm firmware
21:00:37saratogadid you provide it with a firmware file?
21:01:00saratogausually that error means you've provided it with a file thats not a firmware, or nothing at all IIRC
21:01:45lixxusis the toshiba s project still alive, and will it become stable at one stage
21:02:00Tornelixxus: Nobody knows how to fix the boot issues on the Beast
21:02:01saratogadepends if someone works on it
21:02:14TorneI spent a lot of time disassembling the bootloader only to disprove most of our theories
21:02:29lixxusso its really hard
21:02:30TorneIf someone spends a bunch more time staring at it, maybe it will get figured out
21:02:34Tornemayeb it won't.
21:02:37 Part clockcycle|wrk
21:02:58lixxusi guess i will have to look at another player then
21:03:04lixxusbecause i really miss using rockbox
21:03:20TorneYou could try the single-boot bootloader
21:03:26TorneIt doesn't require the original firmware at all
21:03:32 Join liar [0] (
21:03:41lixxusbut how would i perform upgrades etc
21:03:45Tornewhat upgrades?
21:03:50lixxusbecause i am used to using rockbox utility
21:03:56lixxusfor new firmwares etc
21:03:58Torneyou only have to install the bootloader once
21:04:03bertriksaratoga, do you know if the latest clip+ bootloader got uploaded already?
21:04:24saratogabertrik: i don't think it did, i pinged bagder a couple times about it but didn't hear about it
21:04:47Tornethe problem is that the single boot bootloader appears to cause the beast to get upset and reformat itself more often
21:04:53Tornebut that doesn't happen for everyone, so maybe you will be ok
21:05:07lixxusi think i might just sell it
21:05:11lixxusand buy a stable port
21:05:16lixxussave the hassle
21:05:30gevaertslixxus: is it a 30 or a 60?
21:05:50saratogacan we flash the gigabeats firmware loader? i wonder if it'd be possible to just skip everything after hardware init
21:06:13lixxusi dont know which player to replace it with
21:06:16Tornesaratoga: We can in theory, yes, it's just a NOR flash
21:06:31lixxusi want ideally over 60gb but in small form factor
21:06:32Tornehardware init on the imx.31 is frigging massive thoguh :)
21:06:56TorneI looked for possible places to prod to dual boot from flash but didn't find anything promising that left any kind of recovery option open.
21:07:13Tornethere are various things i know how to do, like disabling the reformat-on-error behaviour :0
21:07:16Tornebut it doesn't make it *boot8
21:07:18Tornejust not reformat
21:07:24Torneso you can't fix the device without taking the hard disk out
21:07:32Torneand then, er, guessing what it wants you to fix :)
21:07:50lixxuswhats peoples opinion on opid video 80gb ?
21:08:03Tornethe ipod video works fine for music
21:08:05saratogawhat about something like on AMS where we put in a button check that either jumps to rockbox, or if a button is held, continues to the OF's recovery code
21:08:14Tornesaratoga: Right, but where do you put it?
21:08:22saratogasomewhere after init :)
21:08:34TorneOh, I mean, where do you put it such that you can't brick it
21:08:40 Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
21:08:44Torneif you don't care about the process being safe it's easy :)
21:08:48saratogayou know where it checks the hard disk partition right? around there would be a good place
21:09:13saratogajust a if(GPIO_X) then rockbox(), else nothing()
21:09:14Tornei meant putting it somewhere where you can do an erase and overwrite the old code in a way that cannot brick it
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21:09:40saratogawell a fall through button check that continues into the OF is fairly safe assuming you don't mess up the logic
21:09:56Torneit isn't if you fail to flash it successfully
21:09:56saratogai think we only bricked one or two clips doing that for AMS :)
21:10:19Torneif you leave a chunk of the bootloader set to FF FF FF FF FF it is not so happy :)
21:10:43saratogayou mean due to hardware error or programming error?
21:10:58Tornethere will be no way to unbrick it on failure, i mean
21:11:05Torneunlike the sansas, which can be unbricked if you are determined enough
21:11:18Tornethe boot config on the beast doesn't have any fallbacks
21:11:23Torneit just boots directly to the NOR
21:11:47Tornethe external boot hardware only exists on the part of the schematic that's not present on actual players :)
21:12:08Torneso yeah. if you think that's acceptable then someone could do it
21:12:11saratogawe didn't find out about the unbrick on the sansas until over a year later
21:12:13Torneit would be some amount of work
21:12:19saratogawe thought it was like the GBS actually
21:12:21Tornebut it's not difficult to work out *how*
21:12:47Tornei was looking specifically for an opportunity to do a partial erase on the bootloader such that it would be able to continue to its own recovery mode on error
21:13:00Tornei didn't find one, but i didn't look for very long
21:13:40lixxusjust out of interest what players are you running rockbox on guys
21:13:58Tornelots :)
21:14:05Tornegenerally the answer.
21:14:47*bertrik uses his sansa clip+ most, but also has a sansa e200, c200, clip, meizu m6sp, meizu m3 and an ipod nano 1g
21:15:28saratogawhen people ask what player i usually suggest the most impossible to find
21:17:16lixxusi think i might go back to sansa
21:18:34lixxussansa clip + 8gb
21:18:49lixxusdoes the micro sd slot support 32gb cards
21:20:37lixxuswhich class is recommend for good transfer speeds
21:22:46saratogadoesn't matter
21:23:51lixxusthe next release 4.0 will be a major upgrade in code/features etc ?
21:24:05gevaertsWhy would the next release be 4.10?
21:25:12 Quit ReimuHakurei (Quit: If I use this, I will disappear, and Shana-tan will remain...)
21:25:20saratogaif we ever do a 4.0 release it'll probably be for something big
21:25:50lixxusi see , which would be ? :O
21:26:10saratogasometime between and forever
21:26:27saratogabetween the past and forever
21:28:03lixxusyou said something big . i was just curious what that big feature would be
21:28:41saratogawhen we figure out it'll be in the release notes
21:28:41gevaertsI think you got it reversed
21:28:57saratogaand yeah you said big, not us
21:28:59gevaertsWe're not going to say "4.0 is in two months, better work on something big"
21:29:11gevaertsIt's more like "wow, this is worth a major version bump"
21:30:06lixxusi dont mind waiting . it is just interest to know what the developers have planned, interesting ideas etc
21:30:33Tornedidn't we discuss maybe making the next version 4.0 anyway
21:30:37Tornebecause version numbers are meaningless
21:30:39Torneand 3.10 looks ugly
21:30:53saratogai thought 4 was going to be whenever we get android stable? or did that change
21:30:55Tornethe current code is very different from 3.0 :)
21:31:05*bertrik still thinks we should have nick names for releases :)
21:31:09Tornepersonally I prefer chrome-style versions
21:31:11lixxusandroid app would be really cool
21:31:13Torne3, 4, 5, 6, 7
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21:31:21saratogawe already have an android app
21:31:31Torneyou don't need major.minor unless you are maintaining an API/ABI that you promise not to break
21:31:36lixxusbring out the desire to check
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21:32:28saratogai think we ended up doing major.minor because we ended up stuck on 2.5 for so many years
21:32:44saratogait was such a huge jump to 3.0 that it seemed like subsequent releases were minor
21:32:48Tornei just don't like 3.10
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21:32:58Tornebecause lots of people do not understand that style of versioning
21:33:05Torneand yes those people are dumb/wrong/whatever
21:33:18Tornebut it doesn't matter enough either way to *not* cater to them :)
21:33:41Torneso yeah, imo we might as well make the next one 4.0
21:33:43lixxuswhats the android app name
21:33:49lixxuscant find it on market
21:33:50Tornewhether we make the one after that 4.1 or 5.0 i dunno, but hey.
21:33:51gbl08ma_isn't major.minor working great? isn't the project being successful? I think yes. why change it?
21:33:53Torneit's not on the market.
21:34:04Tornegbl08ma_: It's never gotten to the point of being ambiguous before
21:34:08gevaertsTorne: maybe we can skip 3.10 and go straight to 3.11?
21:34:11Torneso, you can't draw any conclusions from the past
21:34:17Tornegevaerts: heh
21:34:37Tornegevaerts: seriously though, do you trust the users to know the difference between 3.11 and 3.1.1 ?
21:34:39*bertrik has a release nick name for that
21:35:01saratogawell users get whatever rockbox utility gives them, so in practice its probably not a huge deal
21:35:08gevaertsTorne: ok. 3.a?
21:35:16Tornesaratoga: but users already wildly misreport the version when they come back to report issues/etc
21:35:22Tornegiving them yet another way to make a mistake is not ideal :)
21:35:34gbl08ma_I thought we didn't care much about the users, at the end, Rockbox is from devs to devs... isn't it what you say? and I think all devs know how to distiguish between 3.1.0 and 3.10
21:35:37TorneI can't think of a *downside* of calling it 4.0
21:35:47Tornegbl08ma_: Right, but it costs us nothing
21:35:56Tornethe numbers don't mean anything
21:36:02Tornebigger numbers are more recent
21:36:07Tornethat's the only thing that actually is required
21:36:13saratogai propose that we argue abotu this until we deadlock and then don't bother doing releases for a few years
21:36:17saratogathats worked well in the past
21:36:18Tornesaratoga: Yay!
21:36:28gevaertsgbl08ma_: exactly. Confused users means annoyed developers :)
21:37:45kepstin-laptopHmm. Is there any planned replacement for the Main Menu -> Playlists -> Create Playlist (root.m3u8) option, now that the Playlists menu is gone from SVN?
21:39:15gbl08ma_Torne, saratoga, gevaerts: well, I don't care much what version is it. At the end, what I find importance to is the release number, like r34567. I don't use stable releases, only SVNs :)
21:39:42Tornegbl08ma_: in which case don't argue against it
21:39:56saratogayes but people get mad when we don't do releases for some reason, or worse keep using some 3 year old build and complain that we haven't fixed bugs in 3 years
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21:40:45bertrikgbl08ma_, we might drop the release number when going git
21:40:56Tornethe revision number, you mean
21:40:58Torneand yes, we will have to
21:41:12Tornethere are various alternatives and they all suck for exciting reasons :)
21:41:15saratogayeah i'm not sure how thats going to work
21:41:31saratogai guess check out date would be good
21:41:48TorneI am intending to go with git describe output
21:41:55saratogaor maybe check out data + seconds since midnight
21:41:58Torneand to tag the revision immediately after each branch point
21:42:30Torneso it'll look something like v3.10pre+47-g235ba42
21:42:46TorneThe exact details of what we tag it as and so on can be debated :)
21:42:59Tornebut the general scheme is about the only sensible option if you want to hae a sequential number in there
21:43:08TorneThe problem is that it doesn't distinguish trunk from someone's private branch
21:43:12Tornebut then, nor does any other scheme i can think of
21:43:17gbl08ma_what? git doesn't have revisions?
21:43:17Tornethat being the joy of a DVCS
21:43:21Tornegbl08ma_: Nope
21:43:26TorneEven if it did they would be meaningless
21:43:31saratogahow does that work if we change things in the release branch
21:43:33Tornesince more than one person can have the same revision
21:43:41saratogadoes it just reference to when we branched the release?
21:43:58Tornesaratoga: We'll be tagging the first commit on *trunk* after branching the release
21:44:05saratogaok that makes sense
21:44:08gbl08ma_so if we use the checkout date, it'll be inaccurate... imagine a older version is checkout... how would we distinguish from the latest?
21:44:22Tornegbl08ma_: we aren't going to use the date
21:44:26Tornesee above.
21:44:47Tornev3.10pre+47-g123ba42 means "47 commits after the commit tagged as v3.10pre"
21:44:55Torne(and SHA1 hash starting 123ba42)
21:45:12TorneSo yeah. The numbers will go up one at a time like a revision
21:45:31Tornebut they will reset periodically when we cut a release branch
21:45:43Torneand they *cannot be relied on to be exact*, unfortunately
21:45:51Tornesince if I make a local commit after that it will be +48
21:45:54Tornebut *so will yours*
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21:46:28Torneso yeah, there can be builds with the same version number that contain different code.
21:46:30saratogawe could just have the build system tag its builds with an "official" line or something
21:46:40saratogathat way we know if its built from our current git repo or a local branch
21:46:47Tornesaratoga: yah.
21:46:54Tornethat's probably the easiest way
21:47:05Tornethe numbers are still useful for local branches
21:47:10Torneit's still meaningful to *you*
21:47:13saratogaand probably good enough for support purposes
21:47:16Torneit's only confusing if you give your build to someone else
21:47:18gbl08ma_but, that makes my local builds with as-is checkout unofficial!
21:47:23Tornegbl08ma_: yes
21:47:33kepstin-laptopthat's similar to how most linux distributions add their distro name to the kernel version of their own builds. - they only support their own builds.
21:47:56Tornegbl08ma_: there is literally no way to tell
21:48:14Torneunless you can invent one )
21:48:36TorneWell, okay it's possible in theory, you could have go and inspect
21:48:37gbl08ma_that means my local builds will be unsupported even if I make no modifications to them? (I guess I could lie at which version I was using...)
21:48:49Tornenobody said it would be unsupported
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21:49:09saratogawe actually did officially consider local builds unsupported, or at least less well supported anyway
21:49:14Tornethe hash is unique and meaningful
21:49:23saratogasince usually when someone reported a problem we'd just tell them to try our build and see if it went away
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21:49:47TorneIf your build is v3.10pre+47-g123ba42 and the "official" build is v3.10pre+47-official-g123ba42
21:49:55Tornethen we know they are the same source
21:49:59Tornebeause the commit hash is the same.
21:50:19Torneit just means that to be sure you have to check
21:50:37Tornethe lack of some official tag is a reminder that this checking may be required
21:51:40gbl08ma_bah. too much complication for something which is currently so simple. Well, natural evolution of things forces us to change, isn't it? I guess from on now I'll use official builds again. at the end, I do nothing with my local checkout.
21:51:46Tornei am open to alternatives :)
21:52:01Tornegbl08ma_: also, nothing will stop you passing the same arg that the build system does :)
21:52:10Torneit's not like it's a signature
21:52:25*Torne shrugs
21:52:32TorneSeriously, I am not happy with this either :)
21:52:46kepstin-laptopgbl08ma_: but wouldn't you rather have v3.10pre+47-gb08ma-awesome-g123ba42 so people know how awesome you are for building your own rockbox?
21:52:49Tornebut it is pretty difficult to tell what is "official" in a DVCS
21:52:53Torneby definition
21:56:08TorneAnyway, I will be experimenting with at some point and will see what I can come up with
21:57:22TorneI guess it could poke through your remotes looking for one that looks like our upstream and compare to that
21:57:30Tornethat might sometimes fail though :)
21:57:33Torneif people do weird things with git.
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22:06:46AlexPr.e. version of the next release - if we keep arguing until the next release point, I'll just make a random and arbitrary decision :)
22:07:51TorneAlexP: 3*phi?
22:08:06AlexPSure :)
22:08:09Torne4.85410197 is higher than 3.9, it'll work. ;)
22:08:25saratogawe should have every release have equal magnitude but advancing phase
22:08:27AlexPI'm open to bungs incidentally :)
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22:09:54*bertrik wants a rockbox 3.10 for workgroups
22:10:28kepstin-laptopwasn't that 3.11?
22:11:17AlexPRockbox ME maybe
22:11:44CIA-14New commit by lenzone10 (r30212): Updated italian translation.
22:14:42CIA-14r30212 build result: All green
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22:20:09pamauryarg: imx233 errata: Undetectable data corruption can occur during IN transfer in
22:20:09pamauryisochronous mode.
22:20:09pamauryWorkaround: Do not use high-speed isochronous endpoints in
22:20:09DBUGEnqueued KICK pamaury
22:20:09pamauryhigh-speed. :-/
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22:30:19pamauryThere is a phase error of 1/2 sample between the left and right ADC (62.5 μs at 8 KSPS and
22:30:20pamaury11.34 μs at 44.1 KSPS).
22:31:01amiconnsaratoga: Maybe the db could have a file offset pointing to embedded album art if present. -1 could then mean no album art
22:33:11saratogathat would make sense
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22:42:00Buschelbertrik: regarding your measurements on the nano1G -> the current consumption for idle and mp3-playback is expected to be nearly the same. the CPU is not boosting at all when playing mp3.
22:42:09Buschel(except during buffering)
22:42:36bertrikBuschel, ok
22:42:58bertrikBut I expected it to be a bit lower when idle because the cpu should be sleeping more then
22:43:44 Quit gbl08ma (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
22:44:08Buschelwasn't TheSeven also mentioning that CPU sleep did not work for the nano2G as well when using rockbox?
22:44:56bertrikI don't remember, nano 1g and nano 2g use a completely different soc (portalplayer vs samsung s5l870x IIRC)
22:45:30Buschelyes. I wanted to point out there might be a general issue with rockbox not allowing the CPU's to enter the sleep mode
22:46:33saratogabertrik: (take on PP5024)
22:46:51saratogasleeping the CPU saves only a tiny bit of power at 30MHz
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22:51:15saratogai should really find time to do those measurements on AMS
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22:51:56bertriksaratoga, nice measurements, still a bit odd that it make so little difference
22:52:14saratogaodd that PP sucked at chip design :)
22:54:11 Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
22:54:17[7]the CPU sleep stuff itself does seem to work fine, but there's something that makes us use more power than apple
22:54:25[7]that's both on the nano2g and classic
22:54:48[7]i'm not sure if it's some kind of deeper SoC sleep that they're using, or if it's just some peripheral that we don't handle correctly
22:55:17saratogai always wondered what those ~4Hz power spikes were on PP5024
22:55:22saratogaprobably us polling something
22:56:29saratogaalso kind of neat:
22:56:55bertrikI see the PP502x reconfigures the PLL, which takes a bit of time. I wonder if we can't do this instantly (but we've probably looked at this exhaustively already)
22:57:04saratogayou can see how the power usage increases only a bit when the second core powers up
22:57:18saratogabertrik: yeah we can, theres a patch
22:58:55saratogait didn't really seem to make a difference though, so there wasn't much argument for it
22:59:05saratogareconfiguring the PLL is fast enough
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23:08:31bertrikThat patch seems to do two things at once: 1) lower the normal freq 2) use different frequency switching. Even if it doesn't gain much, it's just nice to do it like this and even has fewer lines of code.
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