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#rockbox log for 2011-08-03

00:00:16ukleinekis there an obvious way to store a vfat file system in nand?
00:00:38ukleinekor does that depend on the manufacturer/firmware?
00:04:50 Join saratoga [0] (9803ec4b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
00:05:10saratogaukleinek: file systems are almost always stored on a NAND chip using an FTL
00:05:15saratoga(flash translation layer)
00:05:36 Join mudd1 [0] (
00:05:41saratogawhich maps blocks on the NAND device to sectors in the file system so that the nand appears as a hard drive
00:06:07saratoga(assuming you mean on a pure NAND chip, not something like SD or CF which provides a chip between you and the NAND blocks)
00:06:32ukleineksaratoga: I think I can read out the bare nand chips
00:06:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:07:07saratogathen you're probably dealing with a software based FTL
00:07:14ukleineksaratoga: the application detects my device has two nand chips, lets me select one and a range of sectors and writes the data to a file.
00:09:34 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:09:35*ukleinek guesses the location and encoding of the translation table isn't standardized
00:10:08CIA-14New commit by sideral (r30241): Database: Fix to support case-sensitive file systems containing audio ...
00:10:17saratogano they're specific to whatever library the device's operating system used
00:10:56saratogaalthough there are a few relatively common types out there, some of which are documented in rockbox, android, etc
00:13:29CIA-14r30241 build result: All green
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00:16:09 Nick thegeek_ is now known as thegeek (
00:16:18ukleinekthere are functions in the firmware that contain FS_FDT, does that ring a bell for someone?
00:16:51ukleinek(e.g. FS_FDT_AddFDT FS_FDT_ChangeFDT FS_FDT_ClearClus FS_FDT_DelFDT FS_FDT_FindFDTInfo FS_FDT_GetFDTInfo)
00:17:53ukleinekbedtime here
00:19:22saratogaflatten device tree?
00:19:30saratogamight make sense if its running some kind of linux
00:19:52ukleinekno, it's not Linux
00:20:03ukleinekfile d??? table?
00:22:18ukleinekarguments (i.e. for FS_FDT_ReadFDTInfo) are: FS_VOLUME *pVolume, FS_FDT *Rt, uint32 SecIndex, uint16 ByteIndex
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00:32:58ukleinekmaybe this is fat-related
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00:39:01ukleinekah, the FS_FDT struct seems to match a directory table
00:42:23ukleinekand there is a FTL.o in the sdk's prebuilt library
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09:10:53God_Eateranyone replied to that job offer in the dev list yet? :)
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09:15:39[Saint]soap did in the forums.
09:15:48[Saint]Not sure how "serious" it was...though.
09:16:40[Saint]I'd do it on the conditions that GPL was honoured and the credits plugin stays.
09:23:04God_Eaterhonouring the GPL is not really up for discussion
09:25:04God_EaterI hope someone does do it for money into the fund
09:25:08God_Eaterthat would be nice
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11:49:27CIA-14New commit by kugel (r30242): Cleanup tree.c cache handling a bit. ...
11:52:24CIA-14New commit by kugel (r30243): Plugin API/ABI got incompatible r30242. Bump and sort.
11:52:27 Quit antil33t ()
11:53:45CIA-14r30242 build result: All green
11:54:25kugelbah, I didn't notice my build client is down again
11:54:53kugelone week already!
11:56:20[Saint]Don't you get some form of poke if your client stops responding? Or can clients come and go as they please and you'd only be warned if builds repeatedly fail?
11:56:45kugelI didn't get one as far as I can tell :)
11:57:02kugelI also can't kill the process, so something went horribly wrong
11:57:54CIA-14r30243 build result: All green
11:58:01kugelit hangs at svn up, apparently
11:58:17kugelthe downtime last week might be related
12:02:38[Saint]How would that work?
12:03:12[Saint]I mean it might, sure, but from what I understand it shouldn't have an effect.
12:03:36[Saint]"Very Weird Things(TM)" not inclusive.
12:07:05kugel[Saint]: no idea
12:07:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:08:58kugelshould run again now
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12:23:28*sideral finds bugs in dircache and tagcache that may have caused crashes in the DB browser
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12:39:47CIA-14New commit by kugel (r30244): Fix oops in r30242. I didn't want to change/reduce the buffer size.
12:43:56CIA-14r30244 build result: All green
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14:07:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:20:36kugeldo we have assert() ?
14:21:54sideralNo we don't (except in the sim and maybe in RaaA)
14:22:45sideralBut we should, IMHO
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14:35:31kugelbah, {tag,file,}tree.c are so tricky
14:38:59kugelGod_Eater: thanks, looking forward for your refator results
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14:50:22[7]s/refactor/rewrite/? :)
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15:11:27God_EaterI think kugel's typo "refator" is probably more accurate about what would happen if I did it
15:11:34God_Eaterit would definitely get fatter
15:12:34kugelrefactoring doesn't necessarily make code smaller
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16:07:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:07kugelmeh, the diff is way bigger than anticipated, but I think I got {tag,file,}tree.c compaction safe
16:10:36kugelbut that's because the buffer handling is completely broken there :)
16:14:14sideralkugel: Please don't check in further extensive clean ups to tagtree/tagcache without some up-front review time. You're breaking my work in progress.
16:19:18kugelsideral: I'm sorry about that, but how does review time help there?
16:19:18kugelunless with "review time" you mean enough time for you to commit your stuff so that I need to rebase :)
16:20:33sideralIn general, I think cleanups have to wait. They're much easier to rebase typically, and typically less critical.
16:20:54sideralSo I'd like to have some time to cry foul and make you slower :)
16:21:11kugelI don't have enough time to be slower :)
16:23:23sideralAlso it gives me more confidence at least one person tests the stuff during the review time, before you check in −− which would be you ;)
16:23:47kugeland it's difficult for me to rebase as my tree is already quite diverged, so I would like to commit not-so-major stuff in the meantime
16:24:24sideralDon't forget other people might have the same problem
16:25:00kugelbut other people don't have the same time pressure :)
16:25:24sideralI don't think there's time pressure to get the stuff in the trunk
16:29:44kugelsideral: I'm not convinced my project is considered successful if the vast majority if the changes is still outside svn
16:31:17God_EaterI think it's explicitly not successful if it's mostly not commited
16:31:25God_Eaterif you interpret Google's rules
16:32:11sideralI'm not sure that's a good excuse to commit unreviewed structural patches?
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16:32:27*[Saint] also tends to think that GSoC stuff wins when it comes to "stuff that helps kugel achieve his goal"...if that happens to break someone elses WIP, that's sad, be it.
16:32:56gevaertsGod_Eater: as far as I know, success is entirely defined as "does the mentor say "success" at the end?"
16:33:12God_Eatergevaerts: I thought we had to supply a repo with code in for googel too?
16:33:22God_Eateralthough I suppose that needn't be OUR repo
16:33:54gevaertsYou have to supply code, yes, but what exactly that means couldn't really be more vague
16:37:25[Saint]this also kinda reminds me of the pre-GSoC huge playback patch, where it became apparent there needed to be more "Hey, jsyk, I'm working on <foo>" discussions.
16:37:46jhMikeSrub it in why don't you!
16:38:04 Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
16:38:36[Saint]jhMikeS: That wasn't a dig, nor finger-pointing ;)
16:38:48[Saint]And I think we all like our lovely new playback engine.
16:39:33jhMikeSparadoxically, I'm glad noone says it :) It's good when huge patches don't rise up like the cracken.
16:40:36[Saint]That's mostly because you chose to fight off its many tentacles pre-commit though no?
16:40:41[Saint]You spent a LOT of time there.
16:40:45sideralTo be fair, kugel's changes to far aren't mind-boggingly huge. They just clean up code structure, which can be as annoying as whitespace patches
16:41:08sideralwhen you're working in similar spots
16:41:11jhMikeS[Saint]: true, alot of personal use and abuse it done before ever presenting things in most cases
16:41:48[Saint]I had to pull your patch 8-thing-o from my tree, sideral, as I didn't feel like syncing it then and there.
16:41:59[Saint]I'll put it back when I've slightly more time/motivation.
16:42:03*JdGordon thinks being rushed is a pretty damn goood reason to *not* commit anything without a second review
16:42:54JdGordoncode refactors doubly so
16:43:25JdGordonpity we dont have a really nice code review website up.... :p
16:43:30sideralNo problem Saint
16:43:37jhMikeSnoone would visit ;)
16:44:13JdGordonwhen do the swedes get back from their holidays?
16:44:54[Saint]sideral: It had damn near a full days (8 hours or so, until I exhausted my battery) testing and nothing jumped out and bit me, which can only be good.
16:45:01[Saint]built with no warning, etc.
16:46:15sideralSaint: Good! I hope you browsed the database a lot in those 8 hours, because that's where the changes were :)
16:46:47[Saint]I use the DB exclusively, yes.
16:46:55 Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel)
16:54:22sideralSaint: Thanks for testing! I plan to commit the code later this week
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18:03:39_jacky_hi. how long approx does it take to uninstall the (base) rockbox from an ipod nano 1st ed?
18:04:20_jacky_the reason i ask is that i had problems installing the latest version, so i decided to unistall my existing 1.8-ish but its taking a long time
18:07:30AlexPUninstall should be quick anyway
18:07:45_jacky_the version of rockbox is 1.8
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18:08:00_jacky_oh well its taking over 10 mins
18:08:00AlexPIt isn't
18:08:13AlexPRockbox before version 3.0 was never released for anything but Archos
18:08:37_jacky_i must have my numbers wrong then
18:08:42AlexPyes :)
18:08:44AlexPbut reagrdless
18:08:55AlexPYou are uninstalling with Rockbox Utility?
18:10:12AlexPAnd on what OS?
18:10:20AlexPbrb, I have to pop out for ten minutes
18:11:24_jacky_no probs
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18:31:38sideralSlasheri: "I found something"
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18:51:22Stephen__can anyone confirm what cpu is in the clipv2 the clip plus and the fuze v2 ? I think it's different to the Austria !MicroSystems AS3525 isn't it ?
18:52:28Stephen__and how much ram they havfe ? i think the clipv1&2 have 2MB what have the plus and the fuzes got ?
18:52:51sideralthat's right. I think we don't know the official name of the SoC; that various ones offered on AMS' website don't seem to fit 100%. Hence it's known around here as AS3525v2
18:53:17sideralThese players have 8 MB RAM
18:53:48Stephen__Thanks sideral
18:53:51sideralincluding the ClipV2
18:53:54Stephen__just updating the device chart
18:54:01Stephen__the clipv2 has 8mb rams ?
18:54:12Stephen__the v1 only had 2 right ?
18:54:15sideralYes, I think so
18:55:18sideralYeah, I saw your edits. Thanks for updating the chart!
18:55:45Stephen__no bothers have to finish these then the nano 2g and that's it
18:55:49Stephen__i think*
18:56:23Stephen__would you call the clips screen oled or 2 colour oled ?
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18:56:30Stephen__what sound sbetter ?
18:56:55LloreanStephen__: Mono OLED
18:57:03Stephen__thanks Llorean
18:57:05LloreanThe two colors aren't controllable, so it's really a 1bpp display
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18:57:15Stephen__1bit ?
18:57:21 Quit simonlnu (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
18:57:24Llorean1 bit per pixel. On or Off, no color value.
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18:57:37LloreanMuch like the Archos Recorder, or the remote control screen on the H100
18:59:11Stephen__i'll just use the same stuff from the recorder then
18:59:48Stephen__that has b/w will i say yellow/cyan or just put 1bit ?
19:02:47sideralperhaps "1-bit yellow/cyan static color"? :)
19:04:58LloreanIt's definitely not just "yellow/cyan" at least in the same context as "b/w"
19:05:00LloreanI'd just go with 1bit
19:05:33LloreanParts of the screen are b/yellow and other parts b/cyan if we take "b/w" as an example. But no part of the screen is yellow on cyan or cyan on yellow
19:06:06Stephen__ok ill go 1bit so
19:06:38sideralor you can invent a new term, such as traffic-light multicolor ;)
19:10:05Stephen__whats charging ctrl ?
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19:19:40Stephen__presume it's HW
19:21:19 Quit sideral (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
19:25:31bertrikAMSv2 players like clipv2, clip+ and fuzev2 now have a wake-up alarm, not sure about the AMSv1 players
19:26:45Stephen__amsv1 don't
19:26:49Stephen__I'll add that in
19:27:59bertrikI'm starting to wonder now if that is because the hardware can't do it, or we never bothered to implement it
19:28:55Stephen__I remember funman looking at it but couldn't find the right part of the firmware ?
19:54:42 Quit ReimuHakurei (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
19:55:20bertrikStephen__, it looks like AMSv1 just doesn't support it in hardware
19:56:00Stephen__aqgh good word bertrik, I always thought it just wasn't implemented
19:56:45bertrikBTW, there was a person here yesterday complaining about the RTC being too slow/fast. I see in the as3525 documentation that it's possible to correct for drift. Perhaps the RTC in the H320 can be calibrated too. I'll check.
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19:59:40jhMikeSbertrik: don't think so (it's that philips pmic iirc?)
19:59:50Stephen__yeah my e280v2 does that, the rtc drift
20:02:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:04:41bertriklooks like the pcf50606 in the H320 doesn't allow drift correction
20:17:43 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
20:18:24pamauryregarding the RTC drift, lots of RTC use 32.0 kHz clocks but it's also common to have 32.768 kHz; on some soc it's is configurable so perhaps such a different can account for the drift (just an idea, might not be relevant at all)
20:19:24gevaertsThe h320 in question drifted randomly in all directions
20:19:34pamauryok, then it's just broken :)
20:21:53jhMikeShow did it work at all? doesn't the crystal clock that entire chip?
20:35:25CIA-14New commit by learman (r30245): Backport r30149 (AAC gapless fix) to 3.9 branch.
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20:39:32AlexPlear: ta :)
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21:04:55sideralpamaury: Unfortunately, I need my Clip+ back soonish
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21:12:19saratogasideral: did you want another clip+? they're only ~20 if you need one
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21:54:50sideralsaratoga: that would be another solution :) the 4GB version?
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22:02:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:03:00saratogasideral: yeah, which side of the Atlantic are you in?
22:03:50sideralsaratoga: Europe.
22:04:07saratogai can send you one
22:05:16sideralthat'd be cool! What do you reckon would the shipping cost, and how long would it take?
22:06:31 Quit JdGordon (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:10:25waynehi, i have a problem with my sansa e260v2. today i started Rockbox Utility and I overwrote my old rockbox version with the new version (complete installation, rockbox and bootloader). after that i booted rockbox and started with generating a new database. I thought the process has ended and so I clicked on "Database" to hear my music. there came the info that rockbox was still generating its database but from this moment rockbox hanged. I wai
22:10:25wayneted some minutes but the system didn't continue. I pressed the shut-down button till the mp3-player switched off. when i start the player now, the first and only thing that appears is the lable "Generating Tag-Database 1/9". Normally the original-firmaware started, when I connected my sansa with the computer. In my case the problem is: When I connect my mp3-player with the computer now, then not the original-firmware starts but rockbox (with
22:10:26waynethe same problem). So I can't use rockbox and I can't overwrite my rockbox installation because the player isn't recognized by my computer. Maybe someone can help me, would be very great! greets :)
22:12:46bertrikyou can start the original firmware by holding the left button (IIRC) while booting
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22:17:09kugelgevaerts: I uploaded a (hopefully) final version of the audibuf access patch
22:17:25kugelI'm currently preparing an updated buflib insertion patch too
22:19:24 Quit stripwax (Quit:
22:19:51waynethank you!!! :) didn't know that:)
22:20:08bertriksideral, pamaury are you hacking at something in particular for the clip+ ?
22:20:45sideralbertrik: I borrowed my Clip+ to pamaury for USB debugging
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22:22:09sideralWe originally thought that maybe the USB corruption I see is device dependent, but right now I think it's more likely to depend on the host. I see the same corruption with another Clip+
22:22:10bertrikwayne, not sure what happened, but you can probably fix it by wiping the .rockbox directory and reinstalling it, everything will be back at default. You won't need to install the bootloader again.
22:22:37bertrikperhaps do a checkdisk of your player too
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22:45:12RansomTimeWhat format do album images need to be for rb to recognise them
22:45:37 Quit sideral (Remote host closed the connection)
22:45:41RansomTimemy collection's all been tagged with mp3tag, but not much shows up on RB at all
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22:47:04gevaertsfor non-embedded, jpeg and bmp. Embedded only jpeg I think. Keep in mind that our jpeg decoder doesn't handle progressive jpeg
22:47:39RansomTimeThey're all embedded jpeg IIRC
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22:54:56saratogasideral: sorry had to run, probably take a few days to get the player, then another week or two to ship it to the EU
22:55:13saratogabut shipping is cheap, i think when i sent a fuze to france it only cost a few dollars
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22:59:27sideralsaratoga: sounds fine. thanks for your help! but before we do this, let's see whether pamaury still needs my player. IIRC he'll regain access to his own soon
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23:03:03pamaurysideral: bertrik: I'm not hacking something now, but I've not made any progress with clip+ usb although I have regain access to mine this week. Do you need some test on device ?
23:03:57kugelgevaerts: the other patch is up too
23:04:43kugelthis one can be considered for committing, I'd say
23:05:19sideralpamaury: Not something in particular. I need a Clip+ for general use (as well as it being my main hacking platform), and I have to return the borrowed one that I'm using now. So I'd like to have mine back if possible.
23:06:23 Quit dhrasmus (Quit: Leaving)
23:06:56sideralThe Clip+ is my favourite DAP right now. I tried to get accustomed to a FuzeV2, but although I liked the large color display, it's so huge and impractical in comparison ;)
23:07:59pamaurysideral: ok, I can send it back to you if you want
23:08:51sideralBTW, my FuzeV2 does not have the USB corruption issue I see on the Clip+
23:09:57sideralpamaury: OK. It's a pity it wasn't a help in tackling the USB problems...
23:11:02pamauryI realized there was another option for USB: if we can't reliable usb, perhaps we can get reliable usb at full speed ? that's better than nothing, it would be interesting to try
23:12:00pamauryI'll have a try tomorrow on various hosts
23:13:37sideralyeah, the host really seems to make a difference.
23:16:45 Quit stripwax (Quit:
23:18:07sideralSlasheri, kugel: I've logged a dircache bug −− FS #12216
23:18:08fs-bluebot Dircache shuts down when closing a file that was opened prior to reloading the dircache (bugs, new)
23:19:35 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
23:34:27sideralpamaury: Thanks for your comments on the dircache bug! I'm not quite sure I understand the issues of dircache storing directories as well. The dircache shutdown waits for them to be released, and a dircache reload would rebuild all the needed information. Is there anything we can miss in between?
23:34:54gevaertskugel: I'll try to have a proper look tomorrow
23:37:35pamaurysideral: no, my thought was that the bug it about files but the same is probably true for directories
23:38:18sideralI don't think so.
23:39:33sideralDir handles are held only for short periods, and the dircache synchronously waits till they are release before it exits
23:39:34sideralah, but what about dirs that are open when it reloads −− is that what you're wondering?
23:43:39pamauryanyway, this bug is not new, it's just that nobody took time to fix it :-/
23:44:13pamauryand therer is the problem of the simulator
23:45:35 Quit krazykit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:46:07 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
23:47:45sideralit looks like dircache keeps track of dirs even if it is disabled
23:48:41sideralI think we're safe on that front
23:49:12pamauryI don't remember, and I don't want to have a look at it right now, I'll go to sleep instead :)
23:49:25sideralwhat do you mean with "the problem of the simulator"? that we can't use the file layer on hosted platforms?
23:50:13pamauryyes but if you use OS file layer + dircache (which is stupid but useful for testing) then you can't recover the information the same way
23:50:46sideralright, that's what I figured as well
23:51:16pamauryotoh, the dircache already has simulator specific code so it's not a big deal
23:51:59pamauryif would be really nice to have storage emulation for the simulator, but last time I tried, it didn't work and wasn't able to figure out the problem
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