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#rockbox log for 2011-08-20

00:19:57 Join TheLemonMan [0] (
00:23:35TheLemonManpamaury, ping
00:32:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:35:13 Join mt [0] (~mt@rockbox/developer/mt)
00:38:56TheLemonManim doing some usb-related stuff and i need your help :)
00:39:00TheLemonManPM ?
00:39:34pamauryno just talk here
00:40:15TheLemonManim trying to write an usbeth enabled usb driver
00:40:41TheLemonManthe doc says i just need the control endpoint plus an in and an out endpoint
00:40:42pamauryethernet over usb ?
00:41:10pamauryit's one of cdc-acm like spec right ?
00:41:42TheLemonManhmm sort of, it has much simpler configuration, w/o all those proprietary interface config
00:42:27TheLemonMani get a request 6 on ep0 with windex 409, i guess its asking for my string descriptor in english
00:42:40TheLemonManbut i dunno how to reply to it, and on what ep
00:43:28pamauryon ep0
00:45:04TheLemonManso, i just need to echo the request packet back
00:45:08TheLemonManand then the data ?
00:45:42pamauryjust the data; just like responding to a get descriptor for example
00:46:19pamaurythe usb_core.c files already responds to some string request, do it the same way
00:52:36pamaurywhy do you want to implement ethernet over usb ?
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02:00:44***Started Dancer V4.16
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02:09:15GigaBrickHey, guys, got a question that might be more C related than rockbox related.... "ci->codec_get_buffer(&size_available);" Does this mean that codec_get_buffer is a pointer to a function declared in a struct?
02:09:55GigaBrickI've just never seen a function called like that...
02:12:00GigaBrickOkay, just wanted to know if that's how it worked, I've never thought about that before.
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02:47:20GigaBrickSo why is rockbox written in C and not C++? Make it easier to compile for lots of different platforms?
02:47:50GigaBrickNot that I'm saying it should be written in either or, just that C++ seems to be a more common choice
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12:20:07peaceful1do any of you guys know russian language ?!
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13:11:51CIA-14New commit by mcuelenaere (r30334): Android tools: Allow discovery of download URLs ...
13:14:26CIA-14r30334 build result: All green
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13:53:33TheLemonManpamaury, does a bulk transfer include some sort of header too ?
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14:04:36 Join malte1 [0] (
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14:08:12malte1hi. i had some (undocumented) problems installing rockbox on my ipod video/5.5g (80gb) that I managed to get around. where would be the best place to document my work-around for developers and other users?
14:11:12 Quit Casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603])
14:13:03gevaertsmalte1: what sort of problems?
14:17:05malte1partitioning/file system and rb not reading them correctly problems
14:18:44gevaertsMaybe then, depending on how it got in that state?
14:19:51malte1mh.. thaht was my first thiught too. though i had no problems restoring it to manufacturing state.
14:20:40LloreanWhat problem did you have, then?
14:24:15malte1the bootloader wouldn't work even though rbutil and ipodpatcher reported an ok result.
14:25:05gevaertsHow had you formatted the filesystem?
14:25:18malte1if i used "ipodpatcher -wf" the bootloader worked but couldn't access anything on the partition
14:26:07malte1gevaerts: i tried mkfs.vfat, the mformat stuff from and windows' format
14:26:38malte1same result for all of them
14:27:50malte1oh wait… mformat worked partially
14:28:13malte1but only on the first ~20gb
14:28:35malte1if i wrote anything beyond that, it would corrupt the fs
14:29:15malte1even though the fs reported ~80gb capacity
14:30:56malte1another thing i noticed: (g)parted reported that the 2nd partition only contains ~20gb
14:31:13gevaertsDoes your ipod have the original 80GB disk?
14:32:02gevaertsWhat did you do to finally solve the issues?
14:32:07malte1the guy i bought it from claims, he hardly used and never repaired/modified it after he bought it from retail.
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14:33:13malte1when i resized the partition to contain all the free space behind it and formatted it with mkfs.vfat (no special options), everything worked
14:34:42malte1and stil one thing: with only the rockbox firmware, fdisk reports 512 b physical and logical sector size in contradiction to the wiki's claim of 2048 b logical sector size.
14:34:55gevaertsWhat does dmesg say?
14:35:06malte1didn't look at it
14:35:21malte1do you want me to check now?
14:36:32gevaertsIt would be useful to know, yes. Can you check from either the firmware disk mode or the original firmware? The way the rockbox USB code works, results may be inconclusive
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14:41:26malte1i pressed select+play during boot and it got me into firmware disk mode
14:41:59gevaertsThat looks as expected
14:42:18gevaertsI don't really see what caused your issues then
14:42:43malte1yep. just run fdisk -l on it and got "Sector size (logical/physical): 2048 bytes / 2048 bytes"
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14:46:33malte1with rockbox usb:
14:48:46malte1my best guest is, i did something unforseen (like writing rb over apple's os) and then all the stuff in the wiki didn't work for me anymore
14:49:11malte1because the usb driver works with another sector size
14:51:41malte1though i tried it multiple times with a freshly written mbr, apple firmware and rbutil
14:52:55malte1after all, i don't think, my method is a bigger pain in the ass than using mformat^^
14:53:11gevaertsThe mbr isn't the only thing rockbox looks at. The problem is that the MBR doesn't indicate the blocksize, normally the disk does that. In this case however, the disk reports 512 bytes, but the Apple firmware translates everything to use 2048 bytes, but only on the 5.5G
14:53:35gevaertsAnd we don't really have a way to see if we're on a 5G or a 5.5G
14:53:58gevaertsSo what we do is to see if things work if we assume 512 bytes, and if they don't we try 1024 and 2048
14:54:59gevaertsI can understand how rockbox can think it should use 512 byte sectors, I just can't understand how this can then ever work
14:56:07malte1there's still a possibility, the disk has been exchanged
14:56:23malte1but still reports a toshiba model
14:58:20gevaertsThe only way I can see for the rockbox code to detect 512 byte sectors is if there are remnants of a FAT filesystem at the place where the data partition would start of the disk had 512 byte sectors (partition locations in the MBR are given in numbers of sectors). IIRC that location is inside the firmware partition, but far enough that in normal cases it's not overwritten by the firmware.
14:58:46gevaertsThe flaw in that theory is that *if* that would happen, rockbox would see a 20GB filesystem, not a 80GB one
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14:59:07gevaertshm, wait
14:59:18malte1that's the flaw indeed
15:00:14malte1i can flawlessly access files beyond 20gb
15:01:01gevaertsIt's definitely related to that. The dmesg bit you pasted for the firmware disk mode can't access the partitions because they're too large. This is because your MBR *now* works with 512 byte sectors
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15:02:27gevaertsI still don't understand the entire chain of events though. That's how it works *now*, but how did it get there?
15:03:24malte1after the way of the wiki didn't work for me i tried a few non-standard things
15:03:29pamauryTheLemonMan: bulk transfer doesn't imply any structure
15:03:41malte1like overwriting the aggle firmware
15:04:18gevaertsYes, but everything was still in 2048 byte blocks then, so nothing should ever have misinterpreted the partition sizes
15:04:25malte1and using different sector sizes (512 and 2048) with mkfs.vfat and mformat
15:04:47gevaertsok, maybe I do see a way
15:05:58malte1at some time my mtools.conf contained the line: drive j: file="/dev/disk/by-id/usb-TOSHIBA_MK8010GAH_[snip]-0:0" partition=2
15:07:22malte1but i later changed it too: drive j: file="/dev/disk/by-id/usb-TOSHIBA_MK8010GAH_[snip]-0:0-part2"
15:07:36gevaerts*maybe* (I haven't tested this) rockbox will find a partition that internally uses 512 byte sectors (the FAT superblock says how big the sectors are) with an MBR that assumes 2048 bytes. If you manage to boot rockbox on such a system, the MBR will assume 2018 bytes, but rockbox will claim a 512 byte block size over USB, which will basically make the entire thing unreadable for the host. If you then resize the second partition and reformat it, you'
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15:08:30AlexP_gevaerts: cut of at you'
15:08:37gevaertsd be in your current state
15:08:39malte1yep. for mee too.
15:09:18gevaertsThe best way to fix things if you get in a really confused state is to zero out the first gigabyte or so of the disk (not sure how much is really needed. At least up to the beginning of the data partition assuming 2048 byte sectors. 1GB is definitely enough) and start over.
15:09:35malte1gevaerts: that's how i remember the chain of events here
15:10:02malte1thanks for the tip
15:10:34malte1is there any advantage over the current situation or shoul i just leave it that way until things break again?
15:10:45gevaertsI'm not sure if I'd recommend doing that in your case, since it works now. On the one hand it's a lot of extra work to fix something that arguably isn't broken, but on the other hand if you get serious issues, the firmware disk mode isn't there (at least not easily) to help fix things
15:11:27gevaertsYou can of course just do the zeroing if and when that happens. You likely won't ever get such issues in the first place
15:12:02malte1you mean, i wouldn't be able to zero the first gb in firware disk mode?
15:12:09gevaertsYou'd be able to do that
15:12:29gevaertsYou wouldn't be able to run fsck on it over the firmware disk mode
15:12:33malte1well, then i don't see any threat to bricking my device.
15:12:55gevaertsSo if you install a bad rockbox build, you have more work than most people to fix it
15:13:15malte1i'll just mind, not to store anything important without backup on it
15:13:40gevaertsyes, that's the main thing. A good idea even without this actually
15:13:58gevaertsThere would be ways to fix it involving manually setting up loopback devices and things like that, but nothing really straightforward
15:14:07malte1which i won't do anyway because i already had a head crash with my old ipod.
15:14:26gevaertsYou *might* have worse disk performance this way, but I'm not at all sure. This sector size handling is too messy for me to understand the impact, and it might even be faster this way
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15:15:19malte1the performance seems ok enough to me to not try to fix this
15:15:39malte1~10mb/s write speed
15:16:02malte1it's what i get with my other ipod too
15:17:08*malte1 makes a note in a text file about zeroing the first 1gb
15:18:50*gevaerts is adding a brief note to the IpodManualRestore page
15:23:19gevaertsThis is where the gigabeat S has an advantage. Do *anything* wrong, and it will helpfully repartition and reformat the lot for you :)
15:24:11malte1you forgot a "d" in "confused an unusual situation"
15:24:40gevaertsOh, thanks. Fixed
15:25:15malte1thank you too
15:25:25malte1that was very insightful
15:28:02gevaertsWe should find a better way to detect when presenting 2048 byte sectors is needed. This possibility to get into such messy situations isn't very nice
15:38:18 Join glued [0] (
15:43:22gluedJdGordon, got my pc back, pinpointed the wps space bug to your commit, see FS #12237
15:43:23fs-bluebot WPS/FMS string space bug introduced by r30302 (bugs, unconfirmed)
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16:33:26JdGordon^ vry curious bug
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18:57:22TheLemonManpamaury, is it possible that the usb controller pads the request len to the nearest endpoint packet size ?
19:02:05gevaertsThat should not happen
19:02:49TheLemonManthis stupid controller does it :|
19:03:07gevaertsIn fact, not sending a full packet is how you end a transfer
19:04:14TheLemonManif i request 2 bytes i get 0x40, but it receives correctly the short packets at the end of transfer
19:14:07TheLemonManalso iirc the max size of hi-speed endpoint descriptors is 0x100
19:14:15TheLemonManand this controller supports only 0x40
19:15:38gevaertsIn fact, for high speed bulk, 0x40 is *not* a valid size
19:15:42TheLemonMangah, 8 times slower
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20:02:27gluedMikeS could you pls take a look @ FS #12238
20:02:29fs-bluebot WPS delay on pause introduced by r30097 (bugs, unconfirmed)
20:12:00gluedJdGordon, yes it is weird. It does look like an extra space char, as the position changes depending on space char width of a font, but I cannot see any leftover spaces in your code.
20:12:42AlexP_glued: It is jhMikeS
20:13:39 Join BinaryMan [0] (
20:13:50BinaryMani'm having a small problem.
20:14:15BinaryManiriver h320. pressing left or right doesn't advance to the next or start playback of the current track, respectively.
20:14:36BinaryManstart playback at the beginning of the current track.
20:14:42AlexP_BinaryMan: Check you don't have party mode enabled
20:14:50n1sor the track lock thing
20:14:54AlexP_or that
20:15:19BinaryMantrack lock thing?
20:15:26jhMikeSglued: I'm aware that it blocks UI for about 1/5-1/3 of a second, for now anyway. The mixer couldn't be introduced to where it completely broke things.
20:15:53n1sBinaryMan: some setting to prevent unintentional skipping i don't remember the name
20:15:55BinaryManparty mode is not on.
20:16:06BinaryMananti skip buffer?
20:16:15AlexP_That is completely different
20:16:20AlexP_Prevent track skipping
20:16:34n1sah yes, that's it
20:16:54BinaryManthat was such an irritating problem.
20:17:02BinaryManwhy is that option on by default?
20:17:07AlexP_It isn't
20:17:07Torneit isn;t.
20:17:13BinaryManwas for me.
20:17:19AlexP_No it wasn't
20:17:26AlexP_You must have changed it by mistake
20:17:57BinaryManI never went through any of the playback settings before playing audio after flashing rockbox.
20:18:16AlexP_I can't be bothered to argue, it isn't on by default
20:18:29AlexP_either way, it is off now
20:18:42AlexP_So happy times :)
20:18:48 Part BinaryMan
20:19:11jhMikeSso, on a fade, when is playback "paused"? at the start or the end of it? I wonder if the WPS can handle a state change going in the background.
20:20:44gluedwas trying to figure it myself.
20:21:11gluedthe delay is very noticable though... Would be damn great if it's gone.
20:22:15gluedmanaged to fix it on pause, but had to burn the code −− too ugly.
20:22:27jhMikeSI'd suggest "paused" should reflect what the user had set right away, then proceed with fading in the background...invert for resume
20:23:59AlexP_jhMikeS: I think I agree
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20:26:12gluedMakes sense. The gui should reflect user invoking an action here.
20:26:18jhMikeSAt least then the playback engine deals with it internally and it works the same from any scrren
20:27:33jhMikeSbtw, how does one get voice files to work in RaaA on Android? (I was tricked by my gf into getting a phone :)
20:29:49jhMikeSnvm, I see I missed doing something
20:38:39jhMikeSDoes the delay matter when stopping playback?
20:44:22 Quit XavierGr ()
20:47:24gluedit makes sense that actions such as pause are reflected right away, when user invokes them, but stop is less important imho, due to its semantics.
20:48:16glued= if it coulb be done without much pain.
20:49:40glued*could. just don't want you to work too much :)
20:49:41jhMikeSMy thoughts were that stopped should really mean stopped by the time audio_stop returns, since other areas tend to assume playback isn't using resources after that
20:50:18gluedwell, when one presses a red button, it kinda shoul light up...
20:50:50gluedfeels broken otherwise
20:53:00gluedbut i see that it's hard to split the gui / status logic
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21:11:39jhMikeShmmm...using the timeout api to set the new mixer volume would keep it accurate regardless of what audio is in the middle of
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23:12:11krazykitdo you have a question?
23:12:36coinichyeah, I do
23:12:43coinichif anyone has a moment
23:12:50AlexP_just ask
23:12:59coinichI'm running Rockbox on my Sansa v2 Fuze, and I'm getting horrible graphics bugs
23:13:10coinichincluding flickering, fading to white, inversion, and simple errors
23:13:24coinichreboots don't fix it, but occasionally it will suddenly start working right
23:13:29coinichany tips?
23:14:48AlexP_open a bug report - try and include as much information as possible, version of OF, any information from the debug menu that looks like it might be useful
23:15:05AlexP_I can't remember what is in there, but IIRC it has things like LCD panel info
23:15:39 Join FoH_Phobos [0] (
23:16:52coinichkk, thanks
23:16:57coinichI was hoping there was an easy fix
23:17:14coinichanyone remember how to to dual boot it to avoid the problem?
23:17:38AlexP_It is in the manual
23:17:46AlexP_But hold left when turning on IIRC
23:19:17coinichok, thanks, thought I tried that
23:21:00coinichit just froze each time
23:21:10coinichmight as well try updating to 3.9 to see if it fixes anything, thanks
23:21:28AlexP_oh right
23:21:38AlexP_If you aren't on latest, then definately try that first
23:21:54AlexP_sorry, I just assumed
23:22:04coinichit should've been my first thing
23:22:12coinichbut I only found out it had been updated today
23:22:28AlexP_Don't turn backlight higher than 12 btw
23:23:30coinichI don't usually
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23:27:34coinichI did have the backlight overheating issue a few weeks ago
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23:27:49AlexP_There will be a 3.9.1 to limit this next week
23:27:59coinichbut I haven't done it since, and it was after the problem started
23:28:07coinichbut I'll look for .9.1, thanks
23:28:13AlexP_The limit will be reduced to the same as the OF
23:28:46coinichhmm, the sansa firmware screen is bugged
23:28:58coinichmight not even be a rockbox issue then?
23:29:15AlexP_Ah, that sounds like hardware then unfortunately
23:29:33coinichloved my sansa
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23:36:11coinichwell thanks for the help anyways
23:36:29 Join Borg [0] (
23:37:02coinichand suddenly working again -_-
23:37:35Borgg'day all. I am trying very hard to get into contact with an old friend dating back several years. he goes by the handle of floatsaka. does anyone know where I might find him or do they come around here still by chance?
23:43:14AlexP_From the logs it looks like that nick was only in here about 5 times, the most recent of which was 17/07/2008
23:43:33AlexP_4 times
23:44:01Borgyeah, thats where I was looking is from the logs I wasn't sure maybe if he'd returned or not. well damn, that sucks. thanks for taking a look though for me :)
23:44:08AlexP_no worries
23:44:08Borgthe online log that is
23:44:50BorgI haven't heard from him in probably 3-5 years so it's kind'a tricky tracking the guy down. heh
23:46:18 Quit mystica555 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
23:49:00coinichaannd the fuze is now dead
23:49:02coinichoh well
23:49:08coinichany recommendations of what player to get?
23:49:22Borgor audio/video?
23:49:32AlexP_Be careful with fuze+
23:49:34coinichaudio, sorry
23:49:38AlexP_It isn't supported yet
23:49:45coinichyeah, I figured
23:49:48Borgnot sure if you've heard of it, but VLC is pretty nice.
23:49:51AlexP_clip+ is good - tiny + µSD
23:49:59AlexP_Borg: He means for Rockbox...
23:50:06Borgaah, sorry. heh
23:51:13coinichplus, the fuze+ seems to have poorer reviews
23:51:39AlexP_I think the clip+ is the only thing that is supported and still produced
23:51:58AlexP_If you go for others, then fuze as you know is pretty good + still available
23:52:07Borgk I'm out guys I must continue my search. take care, nice meet'n :)
23:52:19 Part Borg
23:52:38coinichclip looks ok
23:52:45coinichI could always get another fuze
23:53:00coinichis there any other brand thats particularly good?
23:53:23coinichiRiver or something?
23:53:40n1sthe supported iriver players are really old by now
23:54:02n1sthe h100 and h300 are good players though
23:54:24n1sit all depends on what you want
23:54:49 Join germanmushroom [0] (
23:54:51coinichI want sound quality more than anything else
23:54:57AlexP_I love my h140, but it is a) out of production by years and very hard to find and b) bulky and c) greyscale
23:54:57coinichbut a low price is nice too
23:55:08AlexP_but if you want optical in and out it can't be beaten
23:55:20coinichsansa usually fits the bill, but I was wondering about options

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