| 00:00:12 | mystica555_ | so what features not present in 1.6 are you making use of now? |
| 00:00:32 | [Saint] | The compatibility code needed to run ancient Android versions no one cares about (in the greater scheme of things) make developing for the more recent Android versions a huge pain in the ass. |
| 00:01:03 | [Saint] | SOlution, don't care about 1.6 |
| 00:01:17 | * | gevaerts will let those people who actually do the work explain, since they're more likely to actually get things right |
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| 00:01:35 | mystica555_ | so if i am to understand your disdain for android, would it be considered correct that 'android is not as backwards compatible as windows has been' ? |
| 00:01:48 | mystica555_ | ie, code for lowest common denominator no longer works? |
| 00:02:02 | B4gder | lowest common denominator was bumped apparently |
| 00:02:16 | gevaerts | Code for the lowest common denominator will work. It just won't work as well as code that assumes a more recent version |
| 00:02:38 | mystica555_ | and again i ask what code is assuming a newer version to work nicer? gui widgets? powersave? audio out? |
| 00:02:58 | * | B4gder has no idea, but lets the guys who do the code do the code |
| 00:03:29 | mystica555_ | im just trying to figure out what changed so horribly much to make my nice old android phone stop taking builds of rockbox. heh |
| 00:03:39 | [Saint] | Progress ;) |
| 00:03:44 | B4gder | why would it be "horribly much" ? |
| 00:03:46 | mystica555_ | details! |
| 00:03:49 | B4gder | I bet it only takes a few tiny bytes |
| 00:04:00 | mystica555_ | B4gder: some api change is horrible enough |
| 00:05:56 | markun | mystica555_: doesn't say why it was changed: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi?view=rev;revision=30293 |
| 00:05:58 | [Saint] | rasher's daily builds *just* so happen to be on r30292 now, this is the lastest build you can use until (highyl unlikely) someone that wants it, ans is able to, decides that compatibility for these older devices is worth putting time and effort in that the current maintainer is not. |
| 00:06:00 | markun | you could ask kugel |
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| 00:08:26 | kugel | the 1.6 support was broken before 30293 IIRC |
| 00:08:39 | kugel | I just happened to notice it then and made it explicit |
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| 00:09:15 | kugel | mystica555_: the C code runs fine on 1.6. but the java parts need some compatibility stuff |
| 00:09:47 | kugel | if you provide a patch to reenable 1.6 support it might go in |
| 00:09:49 | mystica555_ | ok.. so what exactly is the last build that works fine on 1.6? |
| 00:10:01 | mystica555_ | or 'as fine as it ever did' |
| 00:10:05 | mystica555_ | assuming always bugs |
| 00:10:25 | kugel | however I'm not willing to support code for 1% of the android users which nobody of us developers can test |
| 00:10:36 | gevaerts | mystica555_: "I just happened to notice it" implies that we don't know exactly when it got broken |
| 00:10:44 | Torne | It's likely nobody knows, since if someone developed and tested on a 1.6 device then it would probably still work :) |
| 00:10:51 | mystica555_ | heh |
| 00:11:11 | kugel | realize that 1.6 is dead and upgrade :) |
| 00:11:28 | mystica555_ | i realize that no version past 1.6 has worked on the g1 without a lot of headaches |
| 00:11:28 | mystica555_ | heh |
| 00:11:33 | [Saint] | Given you're the first one who actually cares its broken, I assume the assumption that our 1.6 userbase is very, very small is correct ;) |
| 00:11:48 | [Saint] | it's like 1~2% of the entire Android market. |
| 00:11:52 | kugel | mystica555_: I heard CM6 worked fine on it |
| 00:12:02 | mystica555_ | fine does not imply enough memory to run things properly |
| 00:12:12 | Torne | 1.5 on 1.3%, 1.6 on 2.0% |
| 00:12:25 | Torne | so yeah, requiring 2.1 supports 96.4% of android devices |
| 00:12:30 | [Saint] | Hmmm, 1.5....lol |
| 00:12:42 | [Saint] | what's that, like...microwaves and fridges? ;) |
| 00:12:56 | mystica555_ | and certain older archos tablets that nobody officially upgraded yet |
| 00:13:05 | mystica555_ | still got a friend in chicago who won't hack his tablet and still runs archaic stuff on it |
| 00:13:34 | kugel | so please provide a patch if you can actually verify 1.6 support |
| 00:13:38 | kugel | we can't |
| 00:13:57 | mystica555_ | for fridges, i'd figure you'd need at leat 2.2 to keep the yogurt cool enough... |
| 00:14:13 | mystica555_ | *least |
| 00:14:19 | mystica555_ | (</badjoke>) |
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| 00:23:08 | preglow | kugel: awesome work! |
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| 01:06:59 | kugel | JdGordon: I was wondering why you can't add lines to simplelist if it has a get_name callback |
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| 01:36:30 | JdGord | Kugel: addlines is used when the list is all static items |
| 01:36:47 | JdGord | Callback is when any/all are dynamic |
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| 01:36:53 | kugel | I found that too |
| 01:36:53 | JdGord | U can't mix them |
| 01:37:10 | kugel | my list is all dynamic, but why can't I add a line dynamically? |
| 01:38:04 | JdGord | You mean increase the line count? |
| 01:38:12 | kugel | ryes |
| 01:38:27 | JdGord | That's not what addline does |
| 01:38:47 | kugel | I didn't talk about addline |
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| 01:38:52 | JdGord | I'm not at my comp, does the simplelist struct have the actual list struct? |
| 01:39:14 | * | JdGord got confused |
| 01:39:43 | JdGord | Do it manually through the gui_list struct |
| 01:39:46 | kugel | simplelist only lets one change the line count if get_name isn't given |
| 01:39:57 | kugel | I worked around by using the classic list api for that |
| 01:40:20 | JdGord | Yyou can extend the simplelist api |
| 01:40:28 | kugel | it has an api for this |
| 01:40:40 | kugel | the code explicitely checks get_name == NULL |
| 01:40:55 | JdGord | That might be a bug |
| 01:41:08 | JdGord | Ill be in the office in 20min, ill look then |
| 01:41:10 | kugel | it does so in a few places. it seems intentional to me |
| 01:41:34 | kugel | see what I did in debug_menu.c with the buflib related debug items |
| 01:56:31 | | Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~kudo@wireless.sit-co.net) |
| 01:56:57 | JdGordon | kugel: which simplelist funcyin you asking about? |
| 01:57:51 | kugel | simplelist_set_line_count() |
| 01:59:31 | JdGordon | Why do you want to change the line count thouhg? simplelist_show_list() doesnt return while in the list |
| 01:59:46 | JdGordon | is that because you dont want to reinit it ever? |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:06 | kugel | the items to be displayed change in the action callback |
| 02:05:13 | JdGordon | what the heck are you doing? :) you can probably remove that get_name == NULL check |
| 02:05:13 | kugel | see debug_menu.c |
| 02:05:13 | JdGordon | ok, you've added test code to debug_menu? |
| 02:05:13 | kugel | I added a buflib debug item |
| 02:05:13 | JdGordon | 1) im not sure how you expect that to work.. you are unallocing the handle after setting the list count? |
| 02:05:13 | kugel | the number of allocations (which are listed) changes in the callback (pressing STD_OK makes an allocation) |
| 02:05:13 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK JdGordon |
| 02:05:13 | JdGordon | that really should have been in a seperate plugin |
| 02:05:13 | JdGordon | test_buflib.rock |
| 02:05:20 | JdGordon | but anyway, you free the handle in the same callback |
| 02:05:26 | JdGordon | so the count shouldnt change? |
| 02:05:44 | kugel | the count changes because it leavs an unallocated block |
| 02:05:47 | | Join Pacific [0] (~521be6fc@giant.haxx.se) |
| 02:06:00 | Pacific | Hello there |
| 02:06:25 | JdGordon | oh, well, using gui_synclist_set_nb_items() is fine |
| 02:06:38 | JdGordon | I tihnk all that should be removed to a plugin and a proper test suite built |
| 02:07:31 | kugel | the simplelist code is also calling this, but blocked by the get_name == NULL check. I don't know why though |
| 02:08:48 | Pacific | I downloaded a version of Rockbox 3.9 with the USB-PIO patch for my Clip+ but I want to change the version number from r30325M to just 3.9 for aesthetics, could this be done easily or would it require messing with the source code and compiling it myself? |
| 02:09:02 | JdGordon | kugel: it is making sure the count is always correct when using the static array |
| 02:09:26 | JdGordon | Pacific: you need to compile it yourself |
| 02:09:37 | JdGordon | and we ask that you *dont* do that, or at least dont give it to anyone else |
| 02:09:45 | JdGordon | 3.9 does actually have special meaning |
| 02:10:27 | Pacific | Alright, thanks for the help! And I don't plan on giving it to anyone else |
| 02:10:36 | | Quit Pacific (Client Quit) |
| 02:12:17 | JdGordon | kugel: also, what is the point of that debug menu? |
| 02:12:35 | JdGordon | are you expecting people to ever run it? or you to run it each build? |
| 02:12:57 | kugel | I use it a lot |
| 02:13:29 | JdGordon | hmm, I meant the allocating magic button |
| 02:13:53 | kugel | I use that a lot also |
| 02:14:16 | JdGordon | that worries me a bit |
| 02:14:58 | kugel | :? |
| 02:15:11 | JdGordon | doing mostly-random alloc/frees through there isnt testing |
| 02:15:38 | JdGordon | a proper test suite plugin would be infinitly more valuable |
| 02:15:56 | kugel | i have plans for a test plugin |
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| 02:16:15 | JdGordon | heck, even not freeing immediatly and allowing the free to happen later would be more valuable |
| 02:16:25 | JdGordon | I just dont see the point in that |
| 02:16:31 | kugel | you don't need to |
| 02:17:59 | JdGordon | ok, so enlighten me |
| 02:19:23 | kugel | why? you're going to complain anyway |
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| 02:20:36 | jhMikeS | kugel: yes, it's possible to restart playback without _restarting_ playback (which was built into the new "design") |
| 02:21:17 | kugel | JdGordon: no point in insulting me in the other channel |
| 02:21:52 | kugel | jhMikeS: how? |
| 02:23:29 | jhMikeS | passing the right flags to audio_start_playback |
| 02:24:19 | kugel | but playback is stopped prior to calling that, no? |
| 02:24:40 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 02:24:40 | * | kugel is posssibly missing something |
| 02:24:42 | jhMikeS | not when changing crossfade and such |
| 02:25:07 | | Quit JdGordon (Quit: fuck the lot of you) |
| 02:25:36 | jhMikeS | it just resets the engine and resumes but doesn't leave play state |
| 02:27:46 | kugel | jhMikeS: not sure what you mean |
| 02:28:21 | kugel | I can call it with AUDIO_START_RESTART, but that doesn't help me when I need to stop playback in order to resize buffering space prior to that |
| 02:28:23 | jhMikeS | see audio_set_cuesheet and audio_set_crossfade |
| 02:29:26 | jhMikeS | ah, you need to get some action in between there |
| 02:31:13 | | Join Slasheri [0] (miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri) |
| 02:31:14 | jhMikeS | is this code specific to playback because of the way it uses leftover ram? |
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| 02:33:22 | kugel | jhMikeS: what do you mean? |
| 02:35:01 | jhMikeS | the playback state changing |
| 02:39:25 | | Part bylzz |
| 02:41:22 | kugel | jhMikeS: well, if I get you right, you suggest I just call audio_start_playback() with the right flags? |
| 02:41:59 | kugel | but that leads to audio_reset_buffer() to be called which makes a new allocation. that doesn't work from within the the shrink callback |
| 02:44:45 | jhMikeS | I wasn't fully aware of the requirements in this particular case. |
| 02:45:36 | kugel | the requirement is that the buffer is shrinked (so that no code exceeds the new bounds anymore) before returning |
| 02:46:23 | kugel | and that nothing messes with the buflib allocations |
| 02:47:29 | jhMikeS | (since I'm following up on your TODO) does the core_shrink caller need to be the same thread? |
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| 02:48:11 | kugel | no, the thread doesn't matter |
| 02:48:28 | kugel | what matters is that it's called before the callback returns |
| 02:49:15 | kugel | also the callback isn't called on the audio thread but I wanted to play safe |
| 02:52:39 | kugel | shrinking from the end is rather unlikely, that's only when space is needed to expand the handle-to-pointer lut. actual allocations only happen to ask for space in the front |
| 02:53:45 | jhMikeS | an additional flag could allow that to be put inside audio_start_playback and you only do one operation on the audio thread. if playback isn't playing then audio isn't doing anything else anyway. |
| 02:54:40 | kugel | but that still stops playback for a moment, doesn'T it? |
| 02:56:27 | jhMikeS | sure, but not actually alter the state |
| 02:57:02 | kugel | what's the exact gain of this? |
| 02:57:52 | jhMikeS | well, it could cause wps to exit spontaneously |
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| 07:41:28 | blindwanderer | While r30393-110830 for Sansa c200 seems to run, it won't play mp3's, instead it just advances to the next file. Reverting to older version. |
| 07:43:14 | | Quit blindwanderer (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 07:48:21 | | Join blindwanderer [0] (~ad48516e@giant.haxx.se) |
| 07:48:54 | blindwanderer | *rolls eyes* thought I rebooted, nevermind. |
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| 07:52:56 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@178.182.112.249.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 07:53:38 | wodz | JdGordon: What are technical blockers for customizable menus? |
| 07:53:51 | JdGordon | wodz: none |
| 07:54:14 | wodz | IMO this is the ultimate solution when following menu reorganization thread |
| 07:54:20 | JdGordon | that is entirely project policy |
| 07:54:53 | wodz | oh, I thought that simply no one care enough to implement |
| 07:55:17 | JdGordon | like I said in the thread. I don't particularly like Al's patch, but wouldnt object to it |
| 07:55:32 | JdGordon | no, the usual reason given is it would be a support nightmare |
| 07:56:20 | wodz | well, it is only matter of first ask to roll back to default layout before asking for help |
| 07:57:09 | JdGordon | indeed |
| 07:57:17 | wodz | we only need to provide indicator if custom layout is used to sort this out quickly |
| 07:58:10 | JdGordon | I'm not sure that is even needed |
| 07:58:28 | scorche|sh | wodz: also, this becomes a bit more complicated when one takes into account our blind users, but... |
| 07:59:01 | JdGordon | what *is* needed is enough people to put their hand up and say they wouldn't object to it outright so someone can work on it and not waste their time |
| 07:59:03 | wodz | scorche|sh: why? |
| 07:59:21 | * | wodz rises his hand |
| 07:59:22 | JdGordon | scorche|sh: blind users would have the same benefit from this, probably moreso |
| 08:00 |
| 08:02:24 | scorche|sh | JdGordon: possibly - i am just bringing up the usual arguments |
| 08:03:03 | JdGordon | right, which is why if this is ever going to change we need people to stop being apathetic and say the usual arguments are invalid |
| 08:03:53 | JdGordon | the patches implementation using a text file to load the main menu is a really simple solution to the support question also, rename that file and you have a supported configuration without nuking all your other settings |
| 08:04:27 | wodz | JdGordon: running time in System - This is how I found that something is fishy with pll/dividers settings on rk27xx - it simply run too slow. But I don't know if this is enough reason to leave it. |
| 08:04:55 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 08:05:24 | wodz | JdGordon: text file was my idea - personally I don't see any reason to block such approach |
| 08:05:35 | JdGordon | I agree 100% |
| 08:05:49 | wodz | It will only provide added value with minor hassle |
| 08:05:55 | JdGordon | but then apparently I've got a change fetish or something |
| 08:05:59 | | Join God_Eater [0] (93722cd1@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 08:06:59 | * | [Saint] got tired of supporting customizable menus and getting shot down by "the usual pects" |
| 08:07:07 | JdGordon | wodz: as for running time, well I'm not going to bother removing it if system+settings get merged because there is no real need... if t&d *only* was being moved then I'd care more, but it does look like *most* people don't hate the proposals |
| 08:07:10 | [Saint] | *suspects too |
| 08:07:18 | [Saint] | ERR:LAG |
| 08:08:50 | JdGordon | back in a few min |
| 08:09:51 | Slasheri | kugel: A good estimate for a needed tempbuf size is about: commit_entry_count*sizeof(struct tempbuf_searchidx) + (commit_entry_count + tch.datasize/TAGFILE_ENTRY_CHUNK_LENGTH)*sizeof(void **) + commit_entry_count*TAGFILE_ENTRY_AVG_LENGTH |
| 08:09:54 | [Saint] | Customizable menus, however, don't fix the fact that the default layout is still crap. |
| 08:09:55 | wodz | Not speaking that we will save a lot of work with menu reorganization |
| 08:09:57 | | Quit powell14ski (Quit: powell14ski) |
| 08:10:03 | [Saint] | We still need to fix that, and put that thread to bed, IMO. |
| 08:10:15 | [Saint] | wodz: No, we won't. |
| 08:10:19 | [Saint] | It still needs to be done. |
| 08:10:34 | [Saint] | For those that won't use this feature, which will be many. |
| 08:10:42 | | Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 08:10:58 | [Saint] | The default layout is still important, moreso than custom layouts. |
| 08:11:05 | [Saint] | We still need a "sane" main menu. |
| 08:14:17 | wodz | while I generally agree, the pressure will drop significantly with customizable layout |
| 08:17:19 | | Join dunkaist [0] (~dunkaist@217.197.7.195) |
| 08:18:29 | JdGordon | wodz: are you talking about complete menu customising? or jut the main/root menu? |
| 08:19:04 | [Saint] | wodz: I don't see how the pressure will drop. |
| 08:19:23 | [Saint] | It'll still be there, it'll just give people an opportunity to ignore it. |
| 08:19:30 | [Saint] | but the default layout is the priority. |
| 08:19:41 | wodz | if we (will) do root menu customization what stops us from full customization? |
| 08:20:09 | JdGordon | my view is that the main menu should be completly customisable, with the option of adding a shortcuts submenu to favorite settings, but not full customisation because i think the code bloat wont be worth it |
| 08:20:29 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Agree completely. |
| 08:20:42 | wodz | from the discussion it is clear that even if we come to consensus it will not satisfy everyone |
| 08:20:47 | [Saint] | ordering *every* menu item will bloat the menu code out needlessly. |
| 08:21:01 | [Saint] | only the main menu need customization. |
| 08:21:04 | JdGordon | I also doubt people would use it |
| 08:21:09 | [Saint] | the rest of the menu needs "sane" ordering. |
| 08:21:12 | JdGordon | wodz: well thats never going to happen anyway :) |
| 08:21:38 | wodz | JdGordon: the bloat would be like number of entries* sizeof(function pointer) |
| 08:22:05 | [Saint] | exactly, needless ;) |
| 08:22:30 | n1s | all this menu customization is needless |
| 08:23:33 | n1s | and if we make one menu customizable people will ask that we make the otherones customizable as well |
| 08:23:45 | JdGordon | wodz: + parseing whatever file lays it out |
| 08:23:47 | [Saint] | I agree entirely with JdGordon that there's no need to offer sub-menu customization. Allowing a customizable main menu (and possibly quickscreen) is all that's needed IMO) |
| 08:24:26 | [Saint] | For the rest of the menu, the plan to go with sorting out the sub-menu categories/ordering still seems like it'd be best. |
| 08:24:31 | n1s | i thought the qs already was customizable |
| 08:24:41 | JdGordon | people want more than 4 items |
| 08:24:57 | [Saint] | n1s: It is, buit if you want more than 4 items (people do) its somewhat lacking. |
| 08:25:17 | [Saint] | A simple, list style quickscreen has been wanted by some for ages. |
| 08:25:24 | n1s | that's a completely different thing though |
| 08:25:45 | [Saint] | ...in what way? |
| 08:26:05 | amiconn | That wouldn't be a quickscreen anymore |
| 08:26:07 | * | n1s don't care at all about the qs but i think it seems very arbitrary to say "menu x needs to be customizable but not meny y" |
| 08:26:28 | amiconn | The quickscreen is meant to be for real quick operation of often-used things |
| 08:26:31 | n1s | [Saint]: it *is* customizable, you want to replace it with a menu |
| 08:27:12 | [Saint] | Not just me...the countless people that want more than three items, and also want to include the (many) items the QS doesn't allow. |
| 08:27:20 | [Saint] | s/three/four/ |
| 08:27:41 | amiconn | It's in fact still not as quick as it used to be before the action code |
| 08:27:47 | JdGordon | amiconn: yeah, but the QS hasnt been as quick as it used to since actions went in (or was that finally fixed?) |
| 08:27:54 | JdGordon | snap! |
| 08:28:01 | n1s | it's still something different from making it customizable and i don't see why it is relevant |
| 08:28:08 | amiconn | It's still quicker than a menu though |
| 08:28:10 | [Saint] | and I also don't see how it would stop it from being a "quickscreen"..if you want more than 4 items, and others don't..it won't affect them. |
| 08:28:32 | [Saint] | I assume the option for a "standard" QS will be left in place. |
| 08:28:38 | [Saint] | I wouldn;t see why not. |
| 08:28:57 | JdGordon | the way I'd do it is allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it |
| 08:29:00 | n1s | it seems like people start pulling in everything they want to change about the UI into every UI discussion |
| 08:29:15 | JdGordon | n1s: haha, sad but true |
| 08:29:18 | amiconn | And I can't see what a menu-style quickscreen would offer. You can just use the ordinary menu at the same speed then |
| 08:29:28 | [Saint] | Geee...talking about UI changes when changing the UI comes up.... 0_o |
| 08:29:41 | * | [Saint] is shocked! :) |
| 08:29:53 | JdGordon | amiconn: it would mean all *your* favorite items are in the one submenu instead of across a dozen |
| 08:30:06 | JdGordon | it does have an actual beenfit |
| 08:30:19 | * | [Saint] nods. I'd use it, for sure. |
| 08:30:28 | Llorean | So what five items do you change so often that you need to cut 5 or 6 seconds off your use time for them? |
| 08:30:33 | | Join funman [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 08:30:34 | amiconn | How many items *you use often* are actually scattered? |
| 08:30:46 | JdGordon | n1s: thats probably because we've had the same UI mistakes for 10 years and none are ever fixed |
| 08:30:54 | * | amiconn actually doesn't even use the quickscreen |
| 08:30:56 | Llorean | And which of them aren't associated with other items, so that they wouldn't be even faster by just using a .cfg? |
| 08:31:10 | JdGordon | amiconn: that's not the point though. I also neever use the QS, but some people want it |
| 08:31:19 | amiconn | yeah |
| 08:31:23 | [Saint] | A .cfg is fine, if you have a few, very specific fixed case scanious. |
| 08:31:25 | amiconn | I don't want to remove it |
| 08:31:30 | n1s | JdGordon: true, but i think it makes discussing isolated changes harder and thus less likely to go anywhere, which is sad |
| 08:31:34 | JdGordon | please read what I said.... |
| 08:31:50 | JdGordon | I explicitly said it wouldnt change if you wanted the current QS |
| 08:31:56 | [Saint] | *scanious? |
| 08:32:06 | [Saint] | Errr.... scenarios. |
| 08:32:15 | * | [Saint] curses his phone. |
| 08:32:17 | Llorean | Why not address the actual use cases? Talk about which settings exist that need changing regularly independently of each other. Rather than just saying "some people want it" demonstrate the cases where it's useful rather than hypothesizing that they're out there. |
| 08:32:53 | JdGordon | Llorean: from your own mouth... "I don't really think your speculation on what the most likely way |
| 08:32:56 | JdGordon | users use the settings is means much. The honest truth is, we don't |
| 08:32:59 | JdGordon | know." |
| 08:33:13 | JdGordon | how are we supposed to know what users want? |
| 08:33:21 | JdGordon | or fix the damn issue and empower them from the get go |
| 08:33:22 | Llorean | JdGordon: Yes, but you're claiming we should change it for reasons we don't and can't know. How does that work? |
| 08:33:25 | wodz | about customizable menus - if we could load "menu functions" one by one we may decrease final binary size in some cases |
| 08:34:00 | JdGordon | Llorean: err, what?! |
| 08:34:15 | Llorean | JdGordon: I didn't ask for the most likely way. |
| 08:34:24 | Llorean | JdGordon: I asked for cases that this is meant to address. |
| 08:34:25 | JdGordon | and i didnt say anything about that |
| 08:34:35 | Llorean | JdGordon: You attempted to counter with a quote from me about "most likely ways" |
| 08:34:47 | Llorean | I'm not asking for likelihoods. Just cases in general. |
| 08:35:26 | Llorean | It's a change with the intent to increase the number of accessible settings via the quickscreen. So let's talk about which of our settings are changed regularly independently of each other, and perhaps why they aren't more accessible in other ways. |
| 08:35:44 | JdGordon | and how the hell are we supposed to know that? |
| 08:36:05 | Llorean | Well, since you're trying to solve a problem, it seems reasonable that you've identified it. |
| 08:36:13 | Llorean | Rather than focusing on a single solution, let's focus on the *problem* as there might not be a lone solution. |
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| 08:36:26 | | Quit [Saint] (Quit: Imagination is for turbo-nerds who can't handle how kick-butt reality is. I'm a kick-butt reality master! I would rather die, than be imaginative. I mean that.) |
| 08:36:29 | Llorean | Or is this a case of "I want to make this change, so I'm making up reasons to justify it that I won't really go into the details of"? |
| 08:37:06 | Llorean | I don't think it's unreasonable at all to ask "what are we trying to solve with this?" |
| 08:37:14 | wodz | I guess this is more question to the users asking for more qs entries |
| 08:37:18 | JdGordon | yes, thats it.. i need to stroke my ego with added changes |
| 08:37:32 | | Quit dunkaist (Quit: leaving) |
| 08:38:15 | JdGordon | Llorean: as for solving issues... i note you havnt touched the settings menu ordering doc after saying you actually wanted to find a solution |
| 08:38:51 | Llorean | JdGordon: Stay on topic please, or are you trying to avoid answering the question? |
| 08:38:54 | | Quit CaptainKewl (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 08:39:02 | Llorean | I've already explicitly said my intent regarding that document. |
| 08:39:08 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~st.lasciv@119.224.108.127) |
| 08:46:19 | wodz | reading whole discussion I am a bit shocked how Jd is attacked considering the fact how polite he tries to push this changes |
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| 08:47:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 08:49:12 | Llorean | wodz: I don't think anyone's attacked him here during this discussion. |
| 08:50:09 | * | JdGordon guesses the menu change ml thread(s) |
| 08:50:19 | JdGordon | good thing I have thick skin :) |
| 08:51:57 | God_Eater | yeah, that was a bit harsh |
| 08:52:11 | [Saint] | Its especially surprising since *I'm* the one that re-opened this can of worms....*sigh* ;) |
| 08:52:21 | God_Eater | lucky it was just an end user and no-one we actually care about the opinion of ;) |
| 08:52:22 | [Saint] | He's just getting shit because he's prepared to implement it ;) |
| 08:52:46 | God_Eater | [Saint]: if it's your can of works - can *you* cite these use cases Llorean is afteR? |
| 08:52:50 | | Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 08:52:56 | God_Eater | s/works/worms/ |
| 08:53:08 | [Saint] | Hmmm...seems I need to scroll. |
| 08:53:13 | [Saint] | What does he want? |
| 08:53:20 | JdGordon | which can of worms are we talking about now? |
| 08:53:32 | JdGordon | there is about 15 change discussions happening in parallel :p |
| 08:53:44 | Llorean | [Saint]: To simplify - what problem are we trying to solve? What is the full list of settings that are likely to be changed often, independently of one another so that .cfg files aren't likely to be useful. |
| 08:53:57 | God_Eater | JdGordon: search me - [Saint] claimed ownership of said can. |
| 08:54:00 | [Saint] | If its about the quickscreen, I believe I have it in my logs Llorean himself saying that its generally accepted that users want more than 4 QS items. |
| 08:54:06 | Llorean | [Saint]: I like to start from the core of things. If settings need changed often, we should look at what those settings are, and possibly if there are other ways to address that need. |
| 08:54:40 | [Saint] | Ohhhh to find that log. That'll shut this up. |
| 08:54:52 | Llorean | I'd be surprised if I ever said that. But I will admit to having said I wouldn't mind replacing the quickscreen with the "load .cfg file" screen as an alternative. |
| 08:55:15 | God_Eater | [Saint]: grep is your friend |
| 08:55:18 | [Saint] | Dammit! You're lucky you said it in community ;) |
| 08:55:22 | Llorean | But that's more on my personal use case than any perceived problem. |
| 08:55:24 | n1s | rockbox utility only creates voice files from the curtent svn .langs, right? |
| 08:55:30 | [Saint] | I'll need gevaerts for this I think. |
| 08:55:34 | n1s | as in not for releases |
| 08:55:34 | God_Eater | [Saint]: when do you think he said it? I'll look through my logs. |
| 08:55:59 | [Saint] | I seem to recall it at elast since I've been back...~2 weeks, or so? |
| 08:56:15 | God_Eater | not that I think it matters mind you |
| 08:56:19 | n1s | why does it matter if Lloreansaid that? |
| 08:56:22 | [Saint] | I have a hunch it was in -community, but I may be wrong. |
| 08:56:31 | Llorean | I'm fairly certain I didn't say anything like that recently |
| 08:56:44 | Llorean | I don't believe I've commented on the quickscreen at all, outside this discussion, for months at the shortest. |
| 08:57:15 | Llorean | I'm not prepared to say I've never suggested some users might want more than 4 at any point, but even then, I'd like to know *why* more than simply the fact that they do. |
| 08:57:22 | JdGordon | this argument really is stupid |
| 08:57:43 | JdGordon | We have no idea of knowing how users use rockbox, so obviously we have no idea which settings are important tto them |
| 08:57:58 | Llorean | Then how do we know it's important to replace the quickscreen with a menu? |
| 08:57:59 | JdGordon | we DO know that we have been asked for more settings on the QS before and customisability in the menus |
| 08:58:03 | JdGordon | so why not allow it? |
| 08:58:15 | God_Eater | [Saint]: nope - he never said any such thing |
| 08:58:15 | Llorean | "Have been asked" != "is important" though. |
| 08:58:26 | Llorean | We have been asked for pretty much any idea under the sun. |
| 08:58:54 | JdGordon | Llorean: do you *ever* actually read? I've said twice today and about a million times evry time we have this discussion that I'm not in favour of *removing* the current QS for those that want to stay with that |
| 08:58:55 | Llorean | Which is why it's valuable to look at why it's needed/wanted, to weigh against costs and look for alternative ways to meet that need. |
| 08:59:17 | God_Eater | JdGordon: aren't you discussing a change here? |
| 08:59:22 | Llorean | JdGordon: I didn't mean to suggest you want to remove it. I suppose "replace" was the wrong word there, sorry. |
| 08:59:25 | * | [Saint] wonders what it is he's thinking about...then. I'm sure I recall *someone* (damn sure it was Llorean, but, apparently not) saying that it was universally accepted that users want more than 4 QS items. |
| 08:59:28 | * | [Saint] retracts. |
| 08:59:35 | JdGordon | [Saint]: I remember it too |
| 08:59:42 | Llorean | [Saint]: I don't know who said it, but I'm *very* confident it wasn't me if it was recently. |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:05 | Llorean | I know that some users want more than 4 QS items. I don't believe it's universally accepted that any significant number of users would want or benefit from this. |
| 09:00:23 | JdGordon | 16:28 <JdGordon> the way I'd do it is allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it |
| 09:00:28 | | Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 09:00:43 | amiconn | We can't just add all kinds of exotic functions just because someone asked for them. Every additional function comes at a cost |
| 09:01:24 | God_Eater | JdGordon: that could easily be read as you wanting to remove the QS |
| 09:01:29 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@www.haxx.se) |
| 09:01:29 | | Quit Bagder (Changing host) |
| 09:01:29 | | Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder) |
| 09:01:30 | [Saint] | If it can be allowed (as an alternative to the "normal" QS), at a nominal binsize hit (I sincerely doubt this change would affect binsize in any detrimental way)...I don't see why not to allow it. |
| 09:01:44 | JdGordon | God_Eater: how?! |
| 09:01:58 | God_Eater | though from context I see you're saying now you would allow it as an option to choose between keeping current behaviour and a new method. |
| 09:02:09 | JdGordon | 16:28 <JdGordon> the way I'd do it is (allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it) |
| 09:02:21 | [Saint] | [18:28] <JdGordon> the way I'd do it is allow the current QS implementation *or* a menu so it doesnt affect anyone that doesnt want it |
| 09:02:21 | JdGordon | added brackets to remove ambiguity |
| 09:02:25 | Llorean | Can we drop the issue of whether or not what JdGordon said could imply it would be removed? We all know now that he doesn't want it removed. |
| 09:03:46 | God_Eater | [Saint]: adding features and not removing others always increases binsize |
| 09:04:11 | JdGordon | which is why I've been saying running time and debug info should be removed |
| 09:04:27 | [Saint] | I didn't say it wouldn't. What I did say, is that I doubt it would be anything significant. |
| 09:04:49 | Llorean | JdGordon: But those are an entirely different conversation. "Remove X means it's okay to add Y" isn't how it should work. |
| 09:04:51 | [Saint] | "check for magic file, if its there...use that instad of QS, if not, don't" |
| 09:05:15 | Llorean | Why is there so much resistance to trying to figure out if it's actually *needed* rather than just suggested by a person here or there? |
| 09:05:34 | n1s | [Saint]: please not magic file |
| 09:05:43 | * | JdGordon could implement a menu based quickscreen in *maybe* 200-400 lines including spaces :) it isnt a big feature |
| 09:05:50 | Llorean | It sounds like nobody in this discussion thinks they personally would actually make use of it, based on nobody knowing what settings would need such access? |
| 09:06:08 | [Saint] | n1s: In my imagined implementation, the "magic file" would be the users custom ordering. |
| 09:06:20 | God_Eater | Llorean: well I barely ever use the quickscreen as is. I can't imagine wanting to replace it with a huge menu either. |
| 09:06:25 | [Saint] | not something simply to "turn it on" |
| 09:07:02 | [Saint] | Llorean: DId you miss me saying that I'd certainly use it? |
| 09:07:09 | Llorean | God_Eater: As it stands, the quick screen can hold 4 different settings. So the hypothesis here is that there are use cases that include 5 different settings that are changed frequently enough to warrant quick access, but are changed independently so a .cfg is inappropriate. |
| 09:07:21 | n1s | [Saint]: i'd prefer to have at least a visible setting for enabling, like a file selection option in which people could choose the cusom menu they wanted |
| 09:07:21 | [Saint] | I *hate* digging through menus, even if I don't access them regularly. |
| 09:07:39 | n1s | hidden stuff usually means few people use it |
| 09:07:41 | [Saint] | I'd love to know I had a list, ordered exactly as I please, of my frequent menu items. |
| 09:07:51 | Llorean | [Saint]: What are your frequent menu items? |
| 09:07:52 | [Saint] | who wouldn't? |
| 09:08:05 | [Saint] | a lot..apparently, but I don't see why. |
| 09:08:15 | [Saint] | Llorean: WHy does that matter? |
| 09:08:18 | [Saint] | *WHy |
| 09:08:24 | [Saint] | fuck it. :-S |
| 09:08:30 | n1s | i only use the menus when i want to test something |
| 09:08:40 | Llorean | [Saint]: Well it sounds like you want it as an alternative because we're not getting custom menu ordering, from your description. |
| 09:08:43 | God_Eater | [Saint]: to answer Llorean's earlier question about the use case! |
| 09:09:31 | [Saint] | Llorean: That's partly the case, but even if custom menu ordering were allowed, I'd probably still use this as an alternative. |
| 09:09:34 | * | JdGordon 's config.cfg has 8 lines only |
| 09:09:42 | [Saint] | As I could have a minimal list of items of my chosing. |
| 09:09:57 | Llorean | [Saint]: So what would those items be? |
| 09:09:58 | [Saint] | And not have to dig down into any menu. |
| 09:10:58 | JdGordon | can we *please* push this discussion aside and just agree on the main menu proposal change? |
| 09:11:16 | JdGordon | even if that just means how we all want settings and system merged |
| 09:11:47 | JdGordon | really it seems to be do we put settings as a submenu in system or not |
| 09:12:15 | * | Llorean prefers to put system in as a submenu of settings. |
| 09:16:50 | | Join ender` [0] (~ender@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 09:16:55 | God_Eater | why can't re-ordering of the main menu wait until we've finished looking at the entire menu structure? |
| 09:17:17 | JdGordon | 1) because I don't believe that will actually happen |
| 09:17:25 | Llorean | They're basically independent anyway, with the possible exception of T&D moving over to somewhere else. |
| 09:17:37 | JdGordon | 2) the scope of that doesnt necessarily involve the main menu |
| 09:17:57 | * | JdGordon throws something sharp at apple... apparently the ipod mini's OF does that backward ordering also |
| 09:18:17 | [Saint] | "backward ordering"? |
| 09:18:23 | JdGordon | settings > system |
| 09:18:36 | [Saint] | Ah, right. |
| 09:19:02 | JdGordon | android and apprently the ipod of are the only things which follow that... |
| 09:19:20 | [Saint] | TBH, I really don't give a flying <foo> whether its Settings - System, or System - Settings...as long as its agreeable to all that the two be merged. |
| 09:20:16 | JdGordon | noone has actually said they dont want them somehow merged right? |
| 09:20:36 | [Saint] | If the Android OF does this, *and* the iPod OF....and we run on both, maybe it *might* be sane to follow suit? |
| 09:20:58 | [Saint] | Since, we run on both. Best not to confuse needlessly, yeah? |
| 09:21:14 | JdGordon | gnome does it system > preferences... OSX does it the correct way, booting windows to make sure also |
| 09:21:43 | * | [Saint] slaps his forehead ;) |
| 09:21:44 | JdGordon | do we want to align with dumbed-down interfaces now? |
| 09:21:48 | | Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 09:21:53 | [Saint] | Lets refrain from words like "correct" ;) |
| 09:22:45 | JdGordon | anyway, it seems very few people actually have an opinion here |
| 09:22:47 | Llorean | From my perspective: "Settings" is something everyone knows to look for. "System" is something people will enter hoping settings might be found there once they don't see it at the top level. |
| 09:23:02 | evilnick | Llorean: +1 |
| 09:23:29 | Llorean | I don't think there's a large practical difference in the name, but I think naming it "Settings" is a little friendlier over all. |
| 09:23:53 | JdGordon | since when do we do friendly over correct? |
| 09:24:06 | JdGordon | we use database instead of "music" or "libary" |
| 09:24:23 | JdGordon | full EQ instead of a dumbed down one |
| 09:24:59 | JdGordon | I highly doubt anyone would actually be confused if they saw the settings items inside system |
| 09:25:17 | Llorean | We actually offer a dumbed down one as well. "Music" isn't correct from some perspectives, and neither is "library." You're pulling random things in here, but it's really entirely subjective what order they belong in. |
| 09:25:27 | Llorean | dumbed down EQ, that is. |
| 09:25:52 | God_Eater | I'm glad of the dumbed down one - I've no friggin' clue how to use the full one. |
| 09:26:28 | | Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@119.224.108.127) |
| 09:26:52 | Llorean | But, typically, in places where it doesn't cost us to be user friendly, we should be. |
| 09:27:25 | Llorean | When we talked about naming it "library" or "music" there was talk of those *increasing* confusion in some cases. |
| 09:28:10 | JdGordon | yeah, well I disagree |
| 09:28:55 | God_Eater | no way. really? |
| 09:29:03 | n1s | i'm for merging but don't really care if settings or systme is the top level item |
| 09:29:10 | Llorean | With which point? That those could be confusing, that we should be user friendly when possible, or that Settings is the more obvious "this is what's here" name for the top level? |
| 09:29:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | n1s: same here. |
| 09:30:02 | JdGordon | all three points really |
| 09:30:21 | JdGordon | given then items there is no way users would get lost |
| 09:30:46 | JdGordon | we have plenty of cases where we do correctness over friendliness |
| 09:30:48 | Llorean | I don't see what's to gain by intentionally not being user friendly when the opportunity arises. I can see how you might have a different opinion on the other two, thought. |
| 09:30:56 | [Saint_AndChat] | How can one argue against being user friendly where possible? |
| 09:31:30 | JdGordon | this isnt user frieldnyyness anyway, this is "our users are stupid" |
| 09:31:37 | God_Eater | [Saint_AndChat]: JdGordon can argue black is white. Did you not know this yet? |
| 09:32:00 | [Saint_AndChat] | JdGordon: I disagree. |
| 09:32:00 | JdGordon | God_Eater: well that is my point... if more people would open their mouths this would be done |
| 09:32:22 | JdGordon | right now its me and Llorean, and everyone else doesnt care, and i've done the patch and ready for commit |
| 09:32:41 | JdGordon | I'm only not because I dont want to appear like i'm not trying to get consensus |
| 09:32:48 | [Saint_AndChat] | There seems little reason to deliberately do the opposite of the host os. |
| 09:33:02 | JdGordon | [Saint_AndChat]: and on targets where the OF does the other way? |
| 09:33:24 | [Saint_AndChat] | Ate there any? |
| 09:33:28 | [Saint_AndChat] | Are |
| 09:33:30 | God_Eater | I don't like "System" as the top level entry |
| 09:33:36 | God_Eater | I prefer "Settings" |
| 09:36:27 | JdGordon | will anyone put up their hand to help with the manual changes needed? |
| 09:36:31 | JdGordon | including screenshots :/ |
| 09:36:39 | * | [Saint_AndChat] too but I could tolerate either. |
| 09:37:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | I nominate alexbobp! He's managed to avoid most of this discussion ;) |
| 09:37:42 | n1s | i can help with the manual, screenshots are tedious though so i'd prefer not to have to do all of them by myself |
| 09:38:06 | n1s | and i think i'll do it after it's certain which way we went :) |
| 09:38:10 | [Saint_AndChat] | Don't we have a "make screenshots" script? |
| 09:38:15 | n1s | we do? |
| 09:38:18 | [Saint_AndChat] | I thought so... |
| 09:38:30 | JdGordon | rasher has a patch which is good enough for this, but it still involves building the lot of them |
| 09:38:39 | [Saint_AndChat] | Ah. |
| 09:39:04 | rasher | You're not going to get around that |
| 09:39:12 | JdGordon | frankly at this point I don't even care any more, I do feel pretty offended that people who are pushing one way dont want to contribute to getting their way done though |
| 09:39:20 | rasher | Building is just a matter of pressing "go" though |
| 09:39:39 | rasher | The patch still needs work though, to be really useful |
| 09:39:49 | JdGordon | but if it means that I'm stuck doing everything then I'm getting my way |
| 09:40:14 | * | JdGordon doesnt think that is unreasoable given the lack of conviction from 99% of the audience |
| 09:40:47 | [Saint_AndChat] | Well...in what way could I be of use? I see it as stalled as every time someone has a suggestion there's a twelve hour argument. |
| 09:40:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | I don't want to waste my time. |
| 09:41:47 | [Saint_AndChat] | If I contribute I don't want changed minds the next day. You dig? |
| 09:42:12 | | Quit Scromple (Quit: Leaving) |
| 09:42:56 | Llorean | JdGordon: Isn't the difference between your way and the way people have suggested almost literally one word? Is it really that much more work to do it the other way, or is this just a case of "I'm looking for another excuse to do it my way now that people spoke up?" |
| 09:43:29 | JdGordon | so? |
| 09:44:01 | JdGordon | If I'm doing *all* the work, and it is such a small difference, and so few people care... why shouldnt I get something back from it? |
| 09:44:02 | [Saint_AndChat] | The only thing I see left is system - settings vs settings -system |
| 09:44:26 | JdGordon | the manual is the only thing holding this back |
| 09:44:38 | JdGordon | screenshots+some tex reordering |
| 09:44:47 | Llorean | JdGordon: Why did you even ask for opinions if your intent was to ignore them, then? |
| 09:45:06 | rasher | I'm not sure I like the idea that because you're doing the work you get to overrule a majority wanting thinking there's a better solution. If that is the situation, which it sounds like. |
| 09:45:13 | JdGordon | im not ignoring *them*, I'm asking for more than 2 people to weigh in |
| 09:45:21 | JdGordon | what majority? |
| 09:45:23 | Llorean | The excuse "well, if I'm doing the work, I can ignore the opinions of the rest" would apply to *everything* otherwise. |
| 09:45:30 | JdGordon | its still less than half a dozen people saying *anything* |
| 09:45:47 | rasher | JdGordon: Irrelevant. A majority of the people who care enough to speak up |
| 09:46:33 | God_Eater | JdGordon: so far you're the *only* person who has said they want "System" as the top level entry. Everyone else who has ventured an opinion has disagreed with you. |
| 09:46:54 | JdGordon | but noone has disagreed with the need to merge the two |
| 09:47:07 | [Saint_AndChat] | That's not the issue |
| 09:47:27 | [Saint_AndChat] | And you're right Boone has |
| 09:47:35 | [Saint_AndChat] | No one |
| 09:47:38 | God_Eater | lol autocorrect |
| 09:48:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | The issue, is what should be top level. System or settings |
| 09:48:41 | JdGordon | correct |
| 09:48:55 | [Saint_AndChat] | I wanted settings but I caved in to try to get an agreement. |
| 09:49:04 | JdGordon | and the people arguing one way dont actually want to contribute to it |
| 09:49:14 | [Saint_AndChat] | Errrrr.... |
| 09:49:21 | [Saint_AndChat] | I do! |
| 09:49:26 | rasher | JdGordon: But that is not a useful argument. "I'm doing it so I should get my way" shouldn't be an argument. Otherwise, why have discussions at all? |
| 09:49:58 | God_Eater | erm - we *are* contributing. We're telling you what we think. |
| 09:50:12 | JdGordon | and if just a few more people said they absolutly dont want it that way I'd give in... |
| 09:50:15 | rasher | *Especially* in this case where the amount of work is the same. |
| 09:50:33 | [Saint_AndChat] | How many more do you need? |
| 09:50:36 | rasher | I could sort of see it if it was a matter of one way being significantly more work |
| 09:50:41 | God_Eater | if you're defining "contribute" as "write their own patch to do it" then you're a fucking moron. |
| 09:50:51 | [Saint_AndChat] | Sorry but so far I just see one that wants system top level |
| 09:51:22 | rasher | Can someone explain the issue in a few short sentences and I'll give my unbiased opinion :) I don't know who wants what. |
| 09:51:45 | alexbobp | [Saint_AndChat]: lol, what am I nominated for? |
| 09:52:00 | alexbobp | [Saint_AndChat]: I avoided the discussion by being out trying to fight with some damnable printer nonsense |
| 09:52:03 | [Saint_AndChat] | I caved as I have NP write access, and agreeing made thongs easier. If I had my way settings would be top level. |
| 09:52:07 | Llorean | rasher: Basically, it's an argument about a single word. In the top level Rockbox menu, System and Settings are being merged. The question is, would we prefer the new item to be named System or Settings? |
| 09:52:13 | alexbobp | blast these school assignments! I shouldn't have to use obselete stuff like paper! |
| 09:52:22 | Llorean | Some of us feel that "Settings" may be more familiar to users, and may (slightly) aid user friendliness. |
| 09:52:23 | rasher | Llorean: System, I say. |
| 09:52:23 | [Saint_AndChat] | Thongs |
| 09:52:25 | [Saint_AndChat] | ...lol |
| 09:52:27 | God_Eater | [Saint_AndChat]: hahahahaha |
| 09:52:28 | Llorean | others feel that "System" is technically more correct. |
| 09:52:34 | [Saint_AndChat] | Thongs. |
| 09:52:42 | [Saint_AndChat] | Dammit! |
| 09:52:57 | alexbobp | so is it true that fuze v2 usbmode works just fine as long as all I care about is linux? |
| 09:53:07 | alexbobp | I would like to know how to enable it if there is an easy way |
| 09:53:13 | alexbobp | because I hate the OF with a fiery passion |
| 09:53:13 | Llorean | How about we drop both "System" and "Settings" and name it "Configuration" |
| 09:53:15 | JdGordon | rasher: thank you :) |
| 09:53:26 | rasher | haha |
| 09:53:27 | JdGordon | Llorean: how is that any different to settings? |
| 09:53:45 | rasher | Honestly, I don't see it being any sort of issue though |
| 09:53:50 | rasher | Either would be fine |
| 09:53:51 | Llorean | Five more letters, for a start. |
| 09:55:12 | * | [Saint_AndChat] chokes back a laugh. |
| 09:55:17 | God_Eater | Would it fit on charcell? |
| 09:55:19 | [Saint_AndChat] | Ahem. |
| 09:55:27 | [Saint_AndChat] | Probably not. |
| 09:55:37 | JdGordon | charcell is 11 chars isnt it? |
| 09:55:41 | [Saint_AndChat] | Too long I think |
| 09:55:59 | rasher | There are also other languages.. |
| 09:56:08 | JdGordon | I was going to say "fuck off charcell" but system is shorter so would win if that was the deciding factor |
| 09:56:27 | rasher | Well it wouldn't be a deciding factor between System and Settings |
| 09:56:41 | JdGordon | 2 chars less |
| 09:56:47 | rasher | Sure but both fit on charcell |
| 09:56:54 | [Saint_AndChat] | ...as long as it fits. |
| 09:56:57 | Llorean | Really though, the idea that it shouldn't be named "settings" is mostly based in pedantry around the idea that some of the things contained in it won't actually be settings any more. Specifically the Rockbox Info, Debug, and Running Time options. |
| 09:57:02 | JdGordon | so call it "ass monkey" |
| 09:57:19 | JdGordon | Llorean: oh good, we like pedantry here |
| 09:57:58 | rasher | I really fail to see why this is a point of contention though. Even though I feel System would be a better choice, it seems more people like Settings, so why not go with that? It doesn't matter that much... |
| 09:58:14 | JdGordon | because "more people" here is 2.... |
| 09:58:17 | [Saint_AndChat] | Llorean: which is why I wanted the "about" menu. |
| 09:58:23 | [Saint_AndChat] | Fixed ;) |
| 09:58:41 | rasher | JdGordon: Not like you're going to get all developers weighing in on an issue like this... |
| 09:58:44 | JdGordon | and it matters because this is a bikeshed |
| 09:58:53 | [Saint_AndChat] | Put the npn-settings in About. Done. |
| 09:59:15 | [Saint_AndChat] | non-settings. |
| 09:59:20 | JdGordon | and about goes where? |
| 09:59:21 | rasher | It's exactly bikeshedding. So go with the more popular option and move on because ultimately it doesn't matter |
| 09:59:39 | [Saint_AndChat] | JdGordon: under Settings |
| 09:59:44 | JdGordon | which is wrong! :D |
| 09:59:49 | [Saint_AndChat] | No! |
| 09:59:52 | Llorean | rasher: Honestly, most of us have said it doesn't matter too much to us. I think more of us object to how JdGordon's acting about the whole issue than the issue itself. |
| 09:59:52 | JdGordon | YES! |
| 09:59:54 | [Saint_AndChat] | ;) |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | Perfect timing... |
| 10:02:22 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 10:03:01 | [Saint_AndChat] | Seriously though, an About menu would solve all this "non-settings items under settings" nonsense. |
| 10:03:27 | | Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@106.70.119.244) |
| 10:03:29 | [Saint_AndChat] | And a LOT of OSes do this Settings -About thing. |
| 10:04:07 | Llorean | [Saint_AndChat]: I wouldn't mind Settings->About, but it's not going to solve the problem simply because it leaves the same issue of technically there being non-settings within the settings hierarchy. |
| 10:04:48 | [Saint_AndChat] | It nodes them away, at least. The majority does seem to thing Settings is sane. |
| 10:04:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | It shortens the list, also. |
| 10:05:15 | [Saint_AndChat] | S/nodes/hides/ |
| 10:05:34 | JdGord | Please stop using the word majority |
| 10:05:36 | JdGord | 6 people have weighed in |
| 10:06:02 | [Saint_AndChat] | And the majority of them agree settings is sane. |
| 10:06:30 | [Saint_AndChat] | So, majority is correct here. |
| 10:06:47 | [Saint_AndChat] | Those that don't comment, apparent have no opinion. |
| 10:07:07 | Llorean | Or just aren't here. |
| 10:07:55 | [Saint_AndChat] | Well that too...but them not commenting doesn't change that the main portion of those that have commented agree settings is better wording. |
| 10:08:09 | | Quit bieber (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 10:08:15 | JdGord | 2:4 is hardly a mojority |
| 10:08:28 | [Saint_AndChat] | Were...yeah, it os :) |
| 10:08:48 | [Saint_AndChat] | Dammit! |
| 10:09:13 | [Saint_AndChat] | Were...yeah, it is. 2 vs 1 is a majority. |
| 10:09:24 | God_Eater | it's the very definition of a majority. |
| 10:09:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | Indeed. |
| 10:09:38 | Llorean | It's at *least* as technically a majority as "Rockbox Info" is technically not a setting. ;) |
| 10:10:22 | | Quit JdGord (Quit: Bye) |
| 10:10:33 | God_Eater | it's pretty clear that basically you want to continue this argument until you manage to get enough people to agree with you JdGord, at which point I expect you to suddenly commit your patch as is. That's acting like a dick. |
| 10:20:41 | | Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@106.70.119.244) |
| 10:20:58 | JdGord | If I wanted to be a dick id have commited already |
| 10:21:14 | JdGord | 6/40+ is not enough voices to do anything |
| 10:21:38 | JdGord | I've also asked for help which noone is willing to do |
| 10:21:50 | JdGord | Train |
| 10:21:54 | | Quit JdGord (Client Quit) |
| 10:23:45 | * | [Saint_AndChat] wonders how many times he's confirmed he'll help. |
| 10:23:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | Once I know I'm not wasting my time. |
| 10:24:17 | [Saint_AndChat] | Is this being willfully ignored? |
| 10:25:07 | alexbobp | what's the patch do? |
| 10:25:10 | [Saint_AndChat] | I've said it at least a dozen times I'd say. |
| 10:25:53 | [Saint_AndChat] | I just don't want to work on something only a handful of people want, that may change and waste my time. |
| 10:26:17 | [Saint_AndChat] | I want a CONFIRMED menu first. |
| 10:26:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | Then ill gladly help. |
| 10:26:35 | * | alexbobp is completely lost |
| 10:26:53 | [Saint_AndChat] | alexbobp: probably best ;) |
| 10:27:22 | alexbobp | aww |
| 10:27:29 | alexbobp | I wanna know what the patch does that people are arguing about! |
| 10:27:43 | alexbobp | should I ask in -community? |
| 10:27:43 | [Saint_AndChat] | Menu ordering. |
| 10:27:53 | alexbobp | oh, okay, I don't really care then XD |
| 10:28:03 | [Saint_AndChat] | Settings - system vs system - settings |
| 10:28:29 | [Saint_AndChat] | The two will be merged, the question is what will be top level. |
| 10:28:47 | alexbobp | oh |
| 10:28:54 | [Saint_AndChat] | Majority says settings, jd says system. Stalemate. |
| 10:29:51 | alexbobp | I think settings -> system is more like what most original firmwares do |
| 10:30:09 | alexbobp | mainly because average end users are scared of seeing words like "system" in their main menu, I suspect |
| 10:30:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | That's a non-argument, apparently. |
| 10:31:05 | alexbobp | well, if it were up to me, they wouldn't be merged :P |
| 10:31:10 | alexbobp | but it's not a big deal to me, pay no heed! |
| 10:31:19 | [Saint_AndChat] | Then an os that does it the other way is brought up. |
| 10:31:32 | alexbobp | I can see his argument... system -> settings is more intuitive to me |
| 10:31:36 | [Saint_AndChat] | Ie. Stalemate. |
| 10:31:41 | alexbobp | but settings -> system is probably less scary to novices, and it's faster for reaching most options |
| 10:31:44 | alexbobp | that you actually want to reach |
| 10:31:54 | * | [Saint_AndChat] nods. |
| 10:32:15 | [Saint_AndChat] | IPod and android do it this way. |
| 10:33:01 | alexbobp | so, uh, on the topic of patches... |
| 10:33:05 | Llorean | alexbobp: I think that either way, what you see when you enter the menu will be the same. It's really just an issue of naming, not actual organization. |
| 10:33:56 | mystica555_ | i vote for Settings > System order. |
| 10:34:39 | [Saint_AndChat] | alexbobp: there's nothing on flyspray regarding this iiuc. There's a patch that does what I'd wants on the ml though. |
| 10:34:42 | alexbobp | aww, my fuze just hardlocked when I tried to use the fm radio :( |
| 10:34:48 | mystica555_ | the menu options under 'system' all seem to be a setting of some sort... whereas all settings cannot ideally be grouped under 'system' category. |
| 10:34:56 | alexbobp | Llorean: so if it's system -> settings, you'd have a "settings" menu full of your clock and the credits and running time and stuff? |
| 10:35:00 | alexbobp | because that would make no kind of sense! |
| 10:35:36 | alexbobp | So on the topic of patches I hear from http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMS it's possible to use usbmode in rockbox on a fuzev2, if you only care about linux support |
| 10:35:49 | [Saint_AndChat] | mystica555_: care to actually look again? |
| 10:36:15 | [Saint_AndChat] | There's only time and date under system that is a setting. |
| 10:36:40 | [Saint_AndChat] | The test are clearly not settings. |
| 10:36:49 | gevaerts | Time and date aren't settings! |
| 10:36:52 | [Saint_AndChat] | S/test/rest/ |
| 10:37:17 | alexbobp | gevaerts: how not? |
| 10:37:27 | [Saint_AndChat] | gevaerts: you can set them can you not? |
| 10:37:45 | gevaerts | alexbobp: a setting is something that when you go back to it shows what you set it to |
| 10:37:54 | Llorean | I thought the idea was that the menu structure would be our current "settings menu" with the "System settings" merged with the current "System" menu and then the top level menu would either be named System or Settings? |
| 10:38:00 | gevaerts | If your clock behaves that way, I recommend replacing it |
| 10:38:12 | [Saint_AndChat] | Like 12/24 hour? ;) |
| 10:38:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | That's shows as you set it. |
| 10:38:43 | alexbobp | gevaerts: I would argue that what you are "setting" is the offset of your device clock from real time, and you would like it to remain close to 0 after you set it to that |
| 10:38:43 | mystica555_ | [Saint_AndChat]: i seem to have ctrl-f'd to the wrong 'system' section in the manual. |
| 10:38:47 | gevaerts | Well, ok, some bits in there are setting |
| 10:38:56 | alexbobp | gevaerts: are you saying that how a setting is displayed to you changes whether it is a setting? |
| 10:39:06 | Llorean | gevaerts: So if you set the offset between the RTC and the local time, and it displayed that offset rather than the actual time, would it then become a setting? I mean that's what you're setting, it's just a display issue... |
| 10:39:07 | mystica555_ | i apparently got to 8.5 > system which is not the same as 'main menu > system' |
| 10:39:33 | gevaerts | Llorean: it would. I'd argue that you're not doing that though |
| 10:39:40 | mystica555_ | i still find a few setting values within the main menu > system |
| 10:39:49 | alexbobp | Llorean: <3 |
| 10:39:55 | mystica555_ | why not move those setting values to 'settings' and keep the system menu as 'sysinfo' :P |
| 10:40:04 | gevaerts | Now I don't mind moving the thing to settings, but I do object to this general "time is a setting" idea that can *only* lead to a career in politics |
| 10:40:07 | mystica555_ | to imply 'no settings at all here' |
| 10:40:19 | Llorean | gevaerts: So you don't "set" the clock? |
| 10:40:38 | alexbobp | compromise: the menus should be called "Steve" and "Larry", and nobody can opine that they are incorrectly descriptive |
| 10:40:38 | gevaerts | Llorean: I tend to adjust it :) |
| 10:40:44 | Llorean | Ah, so it's an adjusting. |
| 10:40:46 | Llorean | Fair enough. |
| 10:40:51 | * | Llorean begins plans for a new menu. |
| 10:40:51 | [Saint_AndChat] | Lol. |
| 10:40:57 | alexbobp | this is pedantry at it's finest |
| 10:41:19 | Llorean | alexbobp: gevaerts and I probably shouldn't be allowed to speak to one another. He's also a weapons-grade punner. |
| 10:41:22 | [Saint_AndChat] | System, Settings, Adjustments ;D |
| 10:41:30 | | Join JdGord [0] (~AndChat@106.70.119.244) |
| 10:41:42 | mystica555_ | but once you adjust something, is it not set? :P |
| 10:41:54 | gevaerts | mystica555_: clearly not. It changes all by itself |
| 10:41:54 | Llorean | mystica555_: It's hardly set if it keeps changing. |
| 10:42:04 | * | gevaerts clarifies again that he doesn't intend this to be an argument in the current discussions |
| 10:42:08 | | Quit JdGord (Client Quit) |
| 10:42:11 | mystica555_ | then how would you tend to adjust a constantly varying value? |
| 10:42:24 | Llorean | mystica555_: You *could* set an offset to that value. |
| 10:42:33 | mystica555_ | which then is now set, thus a setting :P |
| 10:42:41 | Llorean | But the current discussion is, quite literally, about whether the top level is *named* one thing or another, not what it contains or any issue of ordering. |
| 10:43:08 | mystica555_ | well if you're all restructuring the menus, shouldnt all of that come into play? |
| 10:43:30 | Llorean | The issue is mostly that 'System' avoids the issue that 'Settings' is not wholly technically correct. While one could argue that 'Settings' is more likely what a user will expect to see and may look for in the first place. |
| 10:44:07 | Llorean | mystica555_: The organizing of the content of the menu is a much larger project anyway. There's an effort to come up with an organized way to tackle it. |
| 10:44:59 | mystica555_ | settings should stay ; any adjustable crap may go under it imho. as for where 'system' goes, sysinfo is what it should be named as it overloads the general settings > system menu...and should contain no settings of its own |
| 10:45:37 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 10:46:20 | [Saint_AndChat] | mystica555_: there would be no need for that menu. |
| 10:46:29 | kugel | fwiw, can I vote "don't change anything"? |
| 10:46:34 | [Saint_AndChat] | There isn't really any need for it now. |
| 10:46:45 | [Saint_AndChat] | Its just a clone of System |
| 10:47:07 | kugel | I honestly don't see why we're in need for a drastical UI change (which just confuses existing users) |
| 10:47:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:48:04 | [Saint_AndChat] | Because the menu is TERRIBLE |
| 10:48:25 | mystica555_ | [Saint_AndChat]: which menu is a clone of which now? |
| 10:48:29 | [Saint_AndChat] | People being used to it doesn't make it un-terrible. |
| 10:48:41 | kugel | but it's an argument to not change it |
| 10:49:07 | kugel | I also doesn't find it that terrible |
| 10:49:45 | kugel | if I need to vote for a change, I'm probably still in the "move t&d to settings and rename system to about" camp, without merging |
| 10:50:36 | [Saint_AndChat] | mystica555_: nevermind. I confused myself thinking about another menu. Apologies. |
| 10:50:40 | God_Eater | I don't find it terrible either |
| 10:51:08 | [Saint_AndChat] | Because we're used to it. |
| 10:51:13 | God_Eater | no |
| 10:51:14 | Llorean | I'd just take everything in the top level "system" menu, shove it into the current Settings->General Settings->System menu and call it a day if it were completely up to my preference. |
| 10:51:14 | kugel | JdGordon: there were several more people than 2 that voiced an opinion. I guess you ignored them because they don't have your opinion |
| 10:51:15 | * | gevaerts thinks he agrees with kugel |
| 10:51:21 | Llorean | We have two places called system. Merge them, go to bed. |
| 10:51:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | It's very unintuitive for.new users. |
| 10:51:53 | God_Eater | [Saint_AndChat]: Rockbox is complex firmware. It's not always possible to make it intuitive. |
| 10:51:55 | [Saint_AndChat] | Were all just used to it. |
| 10:51:57 | God_Eater | This is why we ship a manual. |
| 10:52:11 | [Saint_AndChat] | That no pneumonia reads ;) |
| 10:52:18 | * | kugel always wonders where people get the knowledge what's confusing for new users and what not from |
| 10:52:19 | [Saint_AndChat] | No one. Lol. |
| 10:52:20 | God_Eater | If you want intuitive, stick to the OF |
| 10:52:31 | gevaerts | [Saint_AndChat]: there is no such thing as intuitive software |
| 10:52:31 | kugel | other than making assumptions based on oppinions |
| 10:52:31 | Llorean | A question. The way it's set up currently, would it be feasible for the same setting to appear in multiple places? |
| 10:52:32 | God_Eater | kugel: indeed |
| 10:52:44 | [Saint_AndChat] | kugel: from watching new users. Personally. |
| 10:52:46 | God_Eater | Llorean: sure |
| 10:52:48 | Llorean | For example, could "Volume" show up both in playback *and* sound settings? |
| 10:52:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | I've converted a lot of people.to Rockbox. |
| 10:53:11 | God_Eater | [Saint_AndChat]: for god's sake use a PC. |
| 10:53:40 | Llorean | Just thinking on the big settings reorganization, and thinking in some of the ways I might group them, it'd make sense for some settings to show up in more than one place. |
| 10:54:02 | kugel | yay, redundancy |
| 10:54:06 | mystica555_ | [Saint_AndChat]: 'sokay. i just have always noted the names overload eachother so saying the 'system' menu leads to confusion... |
| 10:55:24 | kugel | for me it seems the whole drastical UI change was just brought up because JdGordon was unhappy with that's going to happen to t&d. nobody really put up a complaint about the current structure |
| 10:55:34 | alexbobp | Would someone mind looking at a rockdev.sh error for me? http://pastebin.com/b3kx3Hdn |
| 10:56:40 | Bagder | that binutils package isn't there anymore, is it? |
| 10:57:05 | kugel | and to me it seems that lots of the discussion is insulting, mainly by JdGordon |
| 10:57:05 | alexbobp | holy crap you're right |
| 10:57:13 | alexbobp | Bagder: I just did "file" on it and it's an html document |
| 10:57:19 | alexbobp | I would have refused to unpack that too. |
| 10:57:23 | Bagder | yes, someone else mentioned that problem the other day |
| 10:57:43 | alexbobp | how can I make it sew? |
| 10:57:57 | alexbobp | I must have my rockbox usbmode! |
| 10:58:08 | alexbobp | I really want to never boot OF again, it's "refreshing your media" thingy is positively dreadful. |
| 10:58:32 | Bagder | try editing the script to use binutils-2.20.1a.tar.bz2 instead |
| 10:59:00 | rasher | Did anyone figure out what was so terrible about the old version that it had to be eradicated? |
| 10:59:19 | alexbobp | Bagder: thanks |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:24 | alexbobp | rasher: I'd guess a security bug or a correctness bug with compiling, if they'd do that |
| 11:00:54 | rasher | Pretty crazy that it's just gone without a trace. |
| 11:00:58 | alexbobp | Bagder: all the downloading seems fine now, thanks :D |
| 11:01:26 | kugel | rasher: if it's a security thing they probably keep it secret for a few days until major distros picked it up |
| 11:01:47 | alexbobp | rasher: it's understandable i nsome cases. Better to make people do a double-take and fix their scripts, then let them accidentally install a compiler that will produce bad binaries and screw them later. |
| 11:01:58 | kugel | I don't suppose someone has the old package for a diff? |
| 11:02:02 | rasher | kugel: hm, good point |
| 11:02:16 | alexbobp | kugel: surely someone does, what with this script! |
| 11:02:18 | alexbobp | someone among the devs |
| 11:07:27 | | Join Buschel [0] (~chatzilla@p54A3B69C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:07:57 | JdGordon | given this is an entirely aestetic change (therefore subjective), and has no technical justification for either way, tell me if this is a distrotion of facts |
| 11:08:00 | JdGordon | 1) the *vast* majority have no opinion at all |
| 11:08:02 | JdGordon | 2) of those that have an opinion, aronud half dont have a strong opinion either way and just want the discussion to end |
| 11:08:05 | JdGordon | 3) of those that do have a strong opinion, only one person has made any effort to actually implement it |
| 11:09:02 | * | [Saint_AndChat] waits for the bit that matters. |
| 11:10:05 | n1s | alexbobp: old buggy versions are usually kept around on the ftps and new patched versions are added. This has to be something else than just some regular bug |
| 11:10:05 | alexbobp | 1 and 2 are probably true. I don't know the details on 3. |
| 11:10:09 | kugel | JdGordon: you brought this thing up in the first place. why should anyone else have to offer an implementation? |
| 11:10:39 | * | [Saint_AndChat] coughs. |
| 11:10:45 | [Saint_AndChat] | I brought it up. |
| 11:10:55 | [Saint_AndChat] | He did something about it. |
| 11:11:07 | rasher | JdGordon: I disagree with including 1). It's factually correct, but a not important when judging what the opinion. We'll *always* only get a subset of developers participating. |
| 11:11:15 | kugel | [Saint_AndChat]: merging system and settings was your idea? |
| 11:11:36 | [Saint_AndChat] | kugel: oh...THAT. |
| 11:11:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | I thought you meant menu ordering as a qhole, sorry. |
| 11:12:09 | [Saint_AndChat] | *whole |
| 11:14:14 | JdGordon | rasher: even taking that out, if ppeople dont step up to do the work on such a trivial change then why should anyone listen to them at all? |
| 11:14:27 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 11:14:29 | JdGordon | that is hardly unreasonable |
| 11:14:33 | | Join pamaury_ [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:14:42 | | Quit pamaury_ (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:15:07 | kugel | JdGordon: we're not settled on what we want to have, it's unreasonable to expect an implementation at this point |
| 11:15:09 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel (r30394): Declare several libgme functions static. |
| 11:15:27 | kugel | that you have a patch doesn't make the thing less controversial |
| 11:15:31 | rasher | I disagree. Especially when it's not a matter of workload (ie. if it was a matter of one option being much more work than the other, I'd be more inclined to agree) |
| 11:17:22 | JdGordon | right, and right now noone is doing anything either way |
| 11:17:32 | JdGordon | if one person said theyd do the work i'd give up |
| 11:17:35 | JdGordon | i'd even bloody commit it |
| 11:17:42 | JdGordon | I just want the argument fininshed |
| 11:18:10 | JdGordon | what I dont think is fair is having to do the work and not get my preference when it is an entirely subjective matter |
| 11:18:24 | CIA-14 | r30394 build result: All green |
| 11:18:26 | kugel | do what work exactly? we haven't reached a consensus |
| 11:18:26 | Llorean | JdGordon: So don't do the work at all then. |
| 11:18:32 | JdGordon | and im not commiting the work i've already done because i dont want to appear to be an ass |
| 11:18:33 | Llorean | JdGordon: Nobody's making you do anything. |
| 11:18:47 | JdGordon | indeed |
| 11:18:51 | Llorean | What exactly are you holding out for? |
| 11:18:58 | alexbobp | wow, rockbox builds fast |
| 11:19:04 | gevaerts | As long as one of the valid options is "do nothing", and some people want that option, I don't think "I'm doing the work" can ever be considered even slightly valid |
| 11:19:06 | JdGordon | but noone else has said they will do it |
| 11:19:07 | alexbobp | like 100 times faster than the toolchain I had to build to build rockbox XD |
| 11:19:15 | kugel | making the work in advance, then crying about it is also not fair |
| 11:19:18 | Llorean | JdGordon: You're basically saying you'll never do it the way people have voted, so what are you holding out on? You can now just go do something else. |
| 11:19:30 | alexbobp | I'm not really in favor of merging the menus, if that's what's up for debate |
| 11:19:37 | alexbobp | but I also only barely care |
| 11:19:56 | * | JdGordon looks forward to this argument coming up again in a few weeks |
| 11:20:09 | JdGordon | weeks/months/whenever |
| 11:20:42 | * | alexbobp looks forward to this being the last goddamned time he ever boots original firmware |
| 11:20:58 | Llorean | JdGordon: You've created a situation where the only two options are "someone else write the whole thing" or "you get it your way." Why are you even still arguing? |
| 11:21:30 | alexbobp | Llorean: not really. Just edit his patch, it'll be easy! |
| 11:21:41 | | Join sideral [0] (~sideral@rockbox/developer/sideral) |
| 11:22:10 | alexbobp | or a patch on his patch. but you get the idea. |
| 11:22:27 | Llorean | alexbobp: It would take more effort for him to share it with me than it would be for him to change the word. Somehow I don't suspect he'll be sharing it if he's not willing to do the other work. |
| 11:23:00 | alexbobp | Llorean: oh, are you guys committing directly to svn? |
| 11:23:04 | alexbobp | no decentralized revision control? :P |
| 11:23:05 | JdGordon | my patches are all on the mailing list |
| 11:23:20 | Llorean | JdGordon: Are there any that doing contain the reordering as well? |
| 11:23:37 | JdGordon | would it matter? |
| 11:23:44 | Zagor | alexbobp: we're still on svn, yes. we are moving to git, but haven't executed that yet. |
| 11:23:45 | JdGordon | its not like you're actually going to *do* anything |
| 11:24:27 | JdGordon | go on.. prove me wrong |
| 11:25:10 | kugel | oh the buggered patches that also sneak in the resume playback & playlist catalog swap? |
| 11:26:15 | JdGordon | because its so hard to understand the patch to put it back |
| 11:27:08 | alexbobp | I need help with the usb mode patch |
| 11:27:27 | alexbobp | I applied this patch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11664?show_task |
| 11:27:32 | alexbobp | to enable usb support on the fuzev2 |
| 11:27:49 | alexbobp | is there anything special I need to do once it's plugged into a computer? it's not doing anything different than before, just charging |
| 11:28:09 | | Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Quit: AndChat - Android IRC Client - http://www.andchat.net/) |
| 11:28:12 | Llorean | JdGordon: Why does your "no other changes" patch have "-case GO_TO_MAINMENU: -return ONPLAY_MAINMENU;" as two changes to onplay.c? |
| 11:28:13 | kugel | I don't understand the binutils diff really, but it doesn't impact our targets |
| 11:30:13 | JdGordon | Llorean: i havnt uploaded any with that filename |
| 11:30:27 | Llorean | What filename? |
| 11:30:28 | | Join lorenzo92 [0] (~chatzilla@95.233.108.80) |
| 11:30:38 | JdGordon | exactly |
| 11:30:51 | Llorean | I have no idea what you're saying now. |
| 11:31:03 | JdGordon | and i have no idea what diff you're talking about |
| 11:31:09 | Llorean | It's simply called "changes.diff" and you described it as "All this does is move the contents of the settings menu into the system menu, and move the system menu to where settings currently is. It also changed the "rockbox info" icon. No other changes." |
| 11:31:29 | kugel | I can see that as well |
| 11:31:37 | JdGordon | was that so hard to say the first time? |
| 11:31:45 | JdGordon | context does help |
| 11:32:08 | Llorean | I do believe it's the only patch you described as having "no other changes" after I complained about you inaccurately describing earlier patches. I thought that was context enough. I'm sorry. |
| 11:32:20 | JdGordon | because GO_TO_MAINMENU is 1) never used 2) meant for going into the settings menu which was rmeod in that patch |
| 11:33:07 | JdGordon | I also said that I just wanted help doing the manual changes, i'll do the code changes |
| 11:34:58 | Llorean | Just a minute ago you were refusing to do the code changes. |
| 11:35:32 | JdGordon | no i didnt |
| 11:36:26 | Llorean | So I'm confused. |
| 11:36:35 | Llorean | When you asked for help, [Saint] said he was willing to. |
| 11:36:48 | Llorean | But you've been holding out saying that since you've done the coding, it should be named what you want it named. |
| 11:37:01 | JdGordon | i never said that at all |
| 11:37:13 | sideral | alexbobp: You need to apply the first patch to sansafuze.h as well |
| 11:37:15 | JdGordon | and [Saint] hasnt agreed to anything untill there is consensus |
| 11:37:22 | Llorean | JdGordon: "(4:18:06 AM) JdGordon: what I dont think is fair is having to do the work and not get my preference when it is an entirely subjective matter" |
| 11:37:31 | Llorean | What did you mean by that, then? |
| 11:37:54 | JdGordon | the screenshots, the manual changes |
| 11:38:07 | JdGordon | I'm realistic enough to know noone else is going to touch root_menu.c |
| 11:38:11 | sideral | alexbobp: there's a different patch in that tracker task that does that for you: |
| 11:38:47 | sideral | alexbobp: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11664?getfile=22652 |
| 11:39:30 | | Quit lorenzo92 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 11:39:32 | Llorean | JdGordon: I'll tell you what. Go ahead and finish your patch 100%, including manual work, and post it to the mailing list. I'll happily convert it to what the consensus agreed on. Then you won't have to do a single iota more work than you would have if we agreed with you. Sound fair? |
| 11:39:37 | sideral | alexbobp: (ah, it's sansfuzev2.h, not sansafuze.h) |
| 11:40:09 | JdGordon | Llorean: I'm done, take the patch as it is |
| 11:40:33 | JdGordon | and as long as t&d stays in system *or* system+settings merge I'm happy |
| 11:40:36 | | Quit n1s (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 11:40:42 | | Join TheLemonMan [0] (~giuseppe@ppp-215-7.26-151.libero.it) |
| 11:41:10 | Llorean | JdGordon: It's clear you're not, since you're objecting to merging system+settings if it's named "settings" |
| 11:41:35 | JdGordon | fucking hell, i said ages ago i stopped caring as long as it happened and someone else did the work |
| 11:41:47 | kugel | JdGordon: the sentence above shows that you still care |
| 11:41:49 | JdGordon | I';ve been arguing for the last hour that i sholdnt be expected to implementing something i disagree with |
| 11:41:57 | Llorean | Nobody's telling you to implement it. |
| 11:41:57 | kugel | you're still against what everone agreed to |
| 11:42:04 | JdGordon | given the lack of caring by anyone else to actually do anything |
| 11:42:06 | Llorean | Just walk away from the discussion. |
| 11:42:32 | JdGordon | "and as long as t&d stays in system *or* system+settings merge I'm happy" |
| 11:42:46 | alexbobp | sideral: I had applied both patches |
| 11:42:52 | Llorean | If you don't want to implement what the general consensus settled on, then don't. It'll stay unimplemented, or someone else will pick it up. |
| 11:43:05 | kugel | JdGordon: yes, and everyone agreed to move t&d to settings and rename system to about |
| 11:43:15 | sideral | alexbobp: the two patches at the top don't apply the needed change to sansfuzev2.h |
| 11:43:21 | alexbobp | sideral: and now I've installed some build from the forums that hangs on boot XD |
| 11:43:27 | alexbobp | sideral: oh I see |
| 11:43:39 | alexbobp | sideral: so I apply the second patch from the link I posted, and the one from the link you posted? |
| 11:44:33 | sideral | yeah. or just apply the patch I linked to and answer "no" to the revert questions it'll ask :) |
| 11:44:47 | alexbobp | sideral: I already trashed my stuff and have a clean tree |
| 11:44:59 | sideral | er, I meant: or just apply the patch I linked to *on top of the other two* and answer "no" to the revert questions it'll ask :) |
| 11:45:06 | sideral | ah OK |
| 11:46:35 | alexbobp | sideral: do I also answer no to "apply anyway"? |
| 11:46:38 | sideral | All: Which targets have a 320x240 touch screen? I'm looking for a nice usable theme for my nice&small Android device |
| 11:47:00 | Llorean | sideral: The Cowon D2 has one, I don't know how usable the theme really is though. |
| 11:47:07 | [Saint] | sideral: None. |
| 11:47:27 | [Saint] | the Cowon D2 has this res, but you mention "usable" as a requirement. |
| 11:47:30 | [Saint] | So, none ;) |
| 11:47:35 | sideral | alexbobp: that shouldn't happen. Paste log to pastebin? |
| 11:47:54 | sideral | Saint: can you make me one? please? |
| 11:47:59 | sideral | :) |
| 11:48:10 | [Saint] | I will do eventually. ;) |
| 11:48:14 | alexbobp | sideral: http://pastebin.com/VgjNDJUk |
| 11:48:17 | [Saint] | Its on my To-Do. |
| 11:48:47 | sideral | alexbobp: right, answer n there as well |
| 11:49:23 | JdGordon | sideral: no, beast is 320x240 isnt it? |
| 11:49:29 | JdGordon | or ipod video |
| 11:49:34 | kugel | touch screen |
| 11:49:49 | JdGordon | excatly... neither of those are touch |
| 11:49:59 | sideral | well, I have a keyboard as well, so I could live without touch for the time being |
| 11:50:22 | alexbobp | sideral: huh? |
| 11:50:53 | sideral | sideral: the last comment belonged into the other conversation about Android :) |
| 11:50:59 | sideral | er, alexbobp^ |
| 11:51:47 | alexbobp | ah okay |
| 11:52:07 | kugel | sideral, Slasheri: I have a patch for reboot-less database enablement, but I'm unsure if it's correct w.r.t. to the load to ram feature |
| 11:52:38 | kugel | http://pastie.org/2459148 |
| 11:52:54 | alexbobp | sideral: should I say y or n? |
| 11:52:54 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 11:52:56 | sideral | kugel: sounds cool! please put it on the tracker, I won't have time to review it for a few days |
| 11:53:03 | alexbobp | sideral: wait never mind |
| 11:53:04 | alexbobp | I'm retarded |
| 11:53:08 | alexbobp | I was misreading your answer |
| 11:53:35 | alexbobp | okay, building now |
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| 11:53:49 | sideral | alexbobp: If in doubt, always say no. :) |
| 11:53:53 | alexbobp | lol |
| 11:57:20 | alexbobp | installing |
| 11:57:48 | alexbobp | oh no, I did major retard, stand by for fat filesystem corruption |
| 11:57:53 | * | sideral takes a look at Cowon D2 themes |
| 11:58:16 | sideral | some seem not so bad |
| 11:58:43 | sideral | but the "Doesn't work with current build" on the theme site scares me |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:33 | [Saint] | sideral: Needs updating. |
| 12:00:39 | [Saint] | the touch region code change. |
| 12:00:42 | [Saint] | only a small edit. |
| 12:00:54 | [Saint] | I'll do itif you get stuck, but I'm kinda busy now. |
| 12:01:31 | sideral | Saint: thanks. Maybe I can do it myself if you point me to the relevant commit or mailing-list message? |
| 12:03:06 | [Saint] | r30129 |
| 12:03:25 | [Saint] | oh...hang on, that should have been fixed. |
| 12:04:57 | [Saint] | H,mmmmm..apparently not. |
| 12:05:24 | [Saint] | unless the D2 uses the mrobe500's wps. |
| 12:06:01 | alexbobp | sideral: data abort at 300547A8, FSB 0x8, domain 0, fault 8, address 0x8B000034 |
| 12:06:23 | alexbobp | well at least it's trying now XD |
| 12:08:28 | | Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 12:09:02 | | Join sinthetek [0] (~sinthetek@unaffiliated/sinthetek) |
| 12:09:22 | [Saint] | JdGordon: You ever noticed that the touchscreen changes were never added to the manual, or CustomWPS? |
| 12:09:42 | [Saint] | re: *, & and ! (what *is* !, btw...?) |
| 12:10:01 | [Saint] | commit 30129 |
| 12:10:29 | JdGordon | which ones in particular? |
| 12:10:52 | JdGordon | err, they've been replaced |
| 12:10:53 | [Saint] | None of the touch area prefixes are defined. |
| 12:11:01 | JdGordon | and that change is in the manual and wiki |
| 12:11:15 | [Saint] | Ah....right, *that*s why ;) |
| 12:11:33 | [Saint] | I forgot about that change ;) |
| 12:11:50 | JdGordon | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CustomWPS#Touchscreen_areas look at options |
| 12:12:23 | [Saint] | yeah, I grepped for * & and ! |
| 12:12:32 | [Saint] | *fail!* |
| 12:12:44 | JdGordon | close as I'm going to get to an apology :) |
| 12:12:54 | | Quit Bagder (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
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| 12:30:09 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel (r30395): Build libgme with the same compiler settings as other codecs. |
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| 12:30:37 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 12:33:11 | CIA-14 | r30395 build result: 0 errors, 1 warnings (buschel committed) |
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| 12:47:56 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:49:17 | | Join madskiny [0] (dre@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-bwdewrbfbpldyxae) |
| 12:50:16 | JdGordon | where are the docs on buflib usage? |
| 12:55:20 | jhMikeS | heh, docs |
| 12:55:54 | * | JdGordon wonders why buflib.h is in firmware/export/include |
| 12:56:06 | JdGordon | I thught that was for posix compatability headers? |
| 12:57:18 | sideral | alexbobp: hmm. looks like the USB driver does not work for you, then. :-( (assuming you made no other change) |
| 12:57:25 | Buschel | jhMikeS: : can you take a look at the warning in libspc? by fault I also removed the "-fno-strict-aliasing" compile option for it. Is there a proper solution or do I need to enable it again? |
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| 12:58:06 | jhMikeS | Buschel: err, I forget what that's about, something with the echo...hold on |
| 12:59:40 | kugelp | JdGordon: its not |
| 12:59:56 | JdGordon | /firmware/include sorry |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:50 | | Quit madskiny (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) |
| 13:01:03 | jhMikeS | Buschel: yeah, it wouldn't not whine about reinterpreting the pointer |
| 13:01:58 | Buschel | so, I should enable it again? |
| 13:02:42 | jhMikeS | perhaps, or I can just try a quick change |
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| 13:04:34 | Buschel | ok, I would prefer such a quick change :) |
| 13:07:54 | sideral | Saint: r30129 is "Update the french translation, shorten string for Archos Player." −− Are you sure? |
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| 13:13:48 | [Saint] | sideral: sorry, 30219 |
| 13:14:03 | [Saint] | ...lucky I saw that, highlights seem to be non-working here. |
| 13:15:40 | sideral | Hmm. The theme I'm looking at doesn't use %Tl, but is reported as broken with current nonetheless |
| 13:15:45 | jhMikeS | Buschel: this seems to work here: http://pastebin.com/imJ7p6wL |
| 13:16:02 | sideral | Saint: AW200glass |
| 13:16:47 | * | [Saint] hands sideral checkwps |
| 13:17:27 | sideral | thanks! does it produce better error messages than what's shown in the mouse-overs on the theme site? |
| 13:17:38 | Buschel | jhMikeS: fine :) will you submit it? I cannot test it on a target |
| 13:17:48 | [Saint] | I _think_ it just spits a line number ;) |
| 13:18:09 | jhMikeS | Buschel: sure |
| 13:18:20 | [Saint] | Oh...what am I saying. No, no it doesn't. |
| 13:18:25 | [Saint] | that's what the themesite uses ;) |
| 13:18:36 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 13:19:16 | [Saint] | So if the themesite is not verbose enough for you, checkwps won't help one bit I don't think. |
| 13:19:18 | CIA-14 | New commit by jethead71 (r30396): Get rid of strict aliasing warnings for ARMv6 spc_dsp.c. Just do load in asm block instead. |
| 13:22:12 | CIA-14 | r30396 build result: All green |
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| 13:25:16 | Buschel | jhMikeS: thanks |
| 13:25:24 | jhMikeS | welcome |
| 13:29:49 | jhMikeS | oooh, fancy new debug screen :) |
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| 13:44:38 | | Quit kugel (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 13:53:41 | | Quit dfkt|n () |
| 13:56:11 | sideral | Saint: gdb says checkwps barfs at this SBS line: %T(272,26,40,40,&cancel) |
| 13:56:53 | JdGordon | why the & |
| 13:56:57 | sideral | I guess that should be ..., cancel, repeat_press) then? |
| 13:56:58 | JdGordon | that was removed ages ago |
| 13:57:01 | JdGordon | yes |
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| 13:57:39 | [Saint] | ",cancel,repeat_press" |
| 13:57:42 | sideral | I guess the theme author want compatibility with 3.9? |
| 13:57:49 | [Saint] | NO NEEDLESS SPACES! |
| 13:57:57 | JdGordon | spaces add readability! |
| 13:57:59 | [Saint] | heh...says "the king of whitespace" ;P |
| 13:58:10 | * | [Saint] retracts. |
| 13:58:12 | JdGordon | want me to commit a patch to the parser to force spaces? |
| 13:58:14 | [Saint] | Space all you want. |
| 13:58:32 | [Saint] | errr...dammit, bad timing. |
| 13:58:36 | [Saint] | No, no I don't ;) |
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| 14:00 |
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| 14:10:17 | jhMikeS | why is the operation in tdspeed considered "autocorrelation" - it hardly appears to be that |
| 14:22:11 | jhMikeS | mmm, it's considered "the difference function" |
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| 14:47:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:54:56 | JdGordon | what happened to the parse_*(line?) fnction we used to have? |
| 14:54:59 | JdGordon | was it nuked? |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:13 | JdGordon | yep... bugger |
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| 15:01:09 | kugel | JdGordon: misc.c? |
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| 15:52:44 | JdGordon | how the heck does the shortcuts plugin work? |
| 15:56:36 | [Saint] | poorly? |
| 15:57:38 | JdGordon | eer, I should say, how does the list work? where is the list stored, etc |
| 15:57:46 | JdGordon | is it in the manual? |
| 15:58:36 | * | JdGordon hopes the wiki is accurate |
| 15:58:42 | JdGordon | ok, so its the viewer for .link files |
| 16:00 |
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| 16:04:55 | * | GodEater_ doesn't know how it works these days - but I did write the original version of it |
| 16:05:08 | * | JdGordon now has a patch to get a *much* better version of the shortcuts plugin in the core |
| 16:05:26 | JdGordon | and llike I said quite a few hours ago.... the .*diff* is under 400 lines |
| 16:05:39 | GodEater_ | explain "much better" plz |
| 16:05:47 | JdGordon | and after I change it to use buflib the ram delta will be SFA if you dont use it |
| 16:05:59 | JdGordon | GodEater_: 1) it can work for just about any setting |
| 16:06:10 | JdGordon | 2) it actually runs files instead of just opening the browser there |
| 16:06:16 | GodEater_ | it wasn't designed for settings back in the day |
| 16:06:27 | JdGordon | including plugins, m3u files, anything |
| 16:06:43 | GodEater_ | and it wasn't supposed to "run" files either - it was supposed to dump you there in the browser |
| 16:06:52 | JdGordon | ok |
| 16:06:56 | GodEater_ | that was *specifically* the use case request |
| 16:07:19 | GodEater_ | although the settings thing is cool |
| 16:07:21 | JdGordon | I completly forgot about the shortcuts plugin untill about 20min ago |
| 16:07:35 | JdGordon | it wasnt done as a replacement but as requested functionality |
| 16:07:55 | GodEater_ | using buflib for it is a great idea |
| 16:08:51 | GodEater_ | I seem to recall getting it commited was contraversial at the time |
| 16:09:03 | GodEater_ | as it was both a viewer, a plugin, and had a menu entry |
| 16:09:08 | JdGordon | brb, irssi is being screwy |
| 16:09:10 | | Quit JdGordon (Quit: leaving) |
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| 16:10:10 | [Saint] | Sounds as though if there were an option for this to launch, or take one to, the desired shortcut object...the shortcut plugin could be tossed? |
| 16:10:17 | [Saint] | errr..."tossed out" |
| 16:10:22 | * | [Saint] eyes the brittish |
| 16:10:27 | [Saint] | -t |
| 16:10:51 | GodEater_ | my poor shortcut plugin. |
| 16:10:59 | GodEater_ | :`( |
| 16:11:05 | JdGordon| | it could stay around as a UI for editing the .link file :) |
| 16:11:24 | [Saint] | that's what text editor is for! ;) |
| 16:11:55 | JdGordon| | well true, it already has a mode for the .colours file :) |
| 16:11:56 | [Saint] | but, yeah, JdGordon|... a launch/take me to option *might* be needed, if its not a PITA |
| 16:12:04 | [Saint] | then it could be, a replacement. |
| 16:12:07 | GodEater_ | *needed* ? |
| 16:12:33 | JdGordon| | [Saint]: this is me we are talking about.... its completly configurable right now |
| 16:12:35 | [Saint] | GodEater_: well, yeah...unless regression is a wanted thing? |
| 16:12:57 | GodEater_ | it is not needed - it might be a nice to have |
| 16:13:00 | JdGordon| | "file: /path/to/file.ext" will run the file, "browse: /path/to/file/.ext" will open the browser there |
| 16:13:05 | [Saint] | this sounds like it does completely kill the shortcuts plugin. |
| 16:13:07 | GodEater_ | if it were *needed* it would have been done years ago |
| 16:13:16 | JdGordon| | the difference is 1 line of code :) |
| 16:13:22 | [Saint] | and, if that was the objective of said plugin....it needs to do at least what it could do. |
| 16:15:42 | * | JdGordon| wonders if he can write a simple xml parser in under 50 lines |
| 16:15:59 | GodEater_ | I bet you could |
| 16:16:06 | GodEater_ | I also bet it wouldn't be feature complete ;) |
| 16:16:15 | JdGordon| | for sure |
| 16:16:38 | JdGordon| | to do this nicely it needs a bunch of config items for each line which parse_setting() cant handle right now |
| 16:16:59 | | Quit Bagder (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
| 16:17:05 | kugel | JdGordon|: what is this you're working on? |
| 16:17:27 | JdGordon| | <item name="something" icon="1" type="file" /> is all it needs to support |
| 16:18:03 | JdGordon| | just something I want that will probably not see the light of day |
| 16:18:35 | [Saint] | I wouldn't go that far... |
| 16:18:42 | JdGordon| | ? |
| 16:18:57 | [Saint] | Oh, whoops...confusing two things. |
| 16:19:11 | [Saint] | you meant the XML parser when you said that, I guess. |
| 16:20:03 | JdGordon| | that xml line is the minimal options that I want to support *right now*... concievebly there would be more |
| 16:20:34 | JdGordon| | currently im using a shit system which isnt going to work in the long term |
| 16:20:55 | JdGordon| | <type>:<path>[,title] |
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| 16:22:35 | JdGordon| | what is the format of the .link files? |
| 16:23:08 | * | Torne supports using anything except xml for this stuff. :) |
| 16:23:23 | Torne | xml is unnecessarily complicated |
| 16:23:37 | JdGordon| | not the full spec obvisouly, nothing more complex that that line |
| 16:23:44 | JdGordon| | but it is slightly human readable |
| 16:23:45 | Torne | Nonono |
| 16:23:52 | Torne | don't use something that look slike xml either |
| 16:23:53 | | Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 16:23:55 | Torne | becuse 1) it's ugly |
| 16:23:59 | JdGordon| | how would you do it? |
| 16:24:00 | Torne | and 2) people will assume it is xml |
| 16:24:03 | JdGordon| | I dont want more than one line pr item if it can be avoided |
| 16:24:36 | Torne | probably json |
| 16:24:37 | kugel | http://old.nabble.com/binutils-2.20.1a-replaced-by-2.20.1-and-so-2.21.1a−−to32363179.html |
| 16:24:52 | * | JdGordon| doesnt know what json is other than a web thingy |
| 16:24:52 | Torne | or something similar. |
| 16:25:04 | Torne | JdGordon|: for this purpose: javascript literals |
| 16:25:28 | JdGordon| | pastebin an example similar to the xml line please? |
| 16:25:30 | Torne | {'name': 'something', 'icon': '1', 'type': 'file'} |
| 16:25:42 | Torne | though i wouldn't form it quite like that |
| 16:26:22 | JdGordon| | http://pastebin.com/1XdetBiy are my two optoins really |
| 16:26:26 | JdGordon| | the sedon is annoying to parse |
| 16:26:27 | Torne | something more yaml-like might be nicer |
| 16:26:39 | Torne | it is? |
| 16:26:39 | JdGordon| | I dont see how that is nicer to read or parse than xml |
| 16:26:54 | JdGordon| | sedon = second one |
| 16:27:00 | Torne | Nop, i mean |
| 16:27:05 | Torne | that's not hard to parse at all |
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| 16:27:10 | n1s | kugel: ah so it was some unusual issue that doesn't affect us at all |
| 16:27:12 | Torne | that's just ConfigParser/ini/whatever you want to call it style |
| 16:27:14 | Torne | that's totally trivial |
| 16:27:20 | kugel | n1s: yes |
| 16:27:32 | kugel | although theyre lying and the new file doesn't just contain new files |
| 16:27:37 | Torne | JSON's quoting requirements are a bit yucky. |
| 16:27:40 | n1s | Mr. Someone should patch rockboxdev.sh |
| 16:27:41 | Torne | json is more tolerant |
| 16:27:43 | Torne | er |
| 16:27:45 | Torne | yaml is more tolerant |
| 16:27:50 | JdGordon| | Torne: keeping track of the itme we are in... it is trivial, but its just yuck :) |
| 16:28:04 | JdGordon| | probably will go the second way though |
| 16:28:21 | Torne | JdGordon|: If you thnk you caan write a parser for hte xml-like one that doesn't have to keep track of exactly the same thing you are mistaken |
| 16:28:26 | Torne | Those examples are *identical* |
| 16:28:32 | JdGordon| | it means any UI to move it has t load the whole file and rewrite, it cant do inplace swaps |
| 16:28:47 | JdGordon| | i know |
| 16:28:48 | Torne | er, what? |
| 16:28:53 | kugel | the second one is compatible with the .cfg format (assuming an implicit default namespace) |
| 16:28:55 | Torne | anwyay. yaml is civilisation |
| 16:29:45 | Torne | if you lose the ini-style section markers and just indent and use more keys you have a yaml subset :) |
| 16:29:56 | JdGordon| | kugel: whats the smallest buffer size buflib copes with without being nasty with fragments? |
| 16:30:16 | kugel | 1 byte |
| 16:30:18 | | Quit mgue (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 16:30:19 | JdGordon| | do I do my own buf management on larger chunks? |
| 16:30:40 | JdGordon| | err, K, whats the handle overhead |
| 16:31:28 | kugel | 5*sizeof(void*) + strlen(name) (rounded up to sizeof(void*) |
| 16:31:29 | JdGordon| | doing 1 handle for each 128 byte struct isnt very good if the overhead is biger than that |
| 16:31:50 | kugel | so ~30bytes |
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| 16:32:34 | kugel | you can do a big alloc and shrink it later |
| 16:33:50 | JdGordon| | Torne: our optimised readline doesnt work very well with multi-line configs which is why I want to avoid that |
| 16:34:17 | * | JdGordon| has a play |
| 16:34:21 | Torne | huh? |
| 16:34:42 | Torne | i don't think we're quite talking about the same thing :) |
| 16:34:53 | JdGordon| | im sure we arent |
| 16:35:02 | * | JdGordon| knows what he is talking about... that's the main thing |
| 16:35:07 | JdGordon| | it is after all past midnight here |
| 16:35:28 | Torne | If you care about lines i am inclined to think you are doing it wrong :) |
| 16:35:41 | Torne | parsers are parsers; bytes are bytes |
| 16:36:04 | JdGordon| | yeah, but using the existing readline api to do minimal work |
| 16:37:28 | Torne | Oh, i see what you mean |
| 16:37:58 | Torne | i don't think it's necessary, thoguh |
| 16:38:13 | JdGordon| | I'm going to put a int** into that params to keep track of the current item for each line |
| 16:38:19 | * | JdGordon| is porbably over engineering this |
| 16:39:21 | Torne | Anyway. even using fast_readline you can do it exactyl as easily with the other form, i'm pretty sure |
| 16:39:25 | * | Torne shrugs |
| 16:40:46 | Torne | there doesn't need to be a 1:1 relationship between your actual data structure and lines int he file.. |
| 16:43:05 | JdGordon| | no, but you need to keep track of the block currently being parsed |
| 16:43:24 | JdGordon| | each block starts with [whatever] |
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| 16:52:05 | glued | hm, SanDisk made the Zip fw available right away, and there's *no logical need* for that −− it's vanilla. |
| 16:52:13 | glued | don't you think it was a move towards Rockbox, so that the porting could start w/o waiting-for-fw-bin delay? |
| 16:52:29 | Torne | JdGordon|: Right, but that's no harder than any other way, i mean |
| 16:53:04 | Torne | JdGordon|: Also, I don't think you do, technically |
| 16:53:09 | Torne | it depends what your data structure looks like. |
| 16:53:24 | Torne | you can infer it from the data you already parsed, probably |
| 16:53:42 | JdGordon| | you need to keep track of what you've already parsed though |
| 16:53:52 | [Saint] | glued: I highly, highly doubt that. |
| 16:53:59 | Torne | not really, no |
| 16:54:19 | JdGordon| | glued: plenty of work has been done for the zip already, we are just waiting for someone to get one |
| 16:55:05 | glued | yes, i know about bertik, i'm about the fact the fw was published |
| 16:55:33 | glued | not the update, like with clips, but the original |
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| 17:00 |
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| 17:01:46 | glued | with clip+ we all had to wait damn months for the bin to make bl, and here it is −− fw avail right away, without any techinical reasons for publishing it |
| 17:02:37 | glued | maybe i' naive, but it looks like an unofficial friendly move |
| 17:06:46 | glued | anyway, i end up half of my post at their forums with "share with Rockbox, like you planned long ago" :) and some other do that too. |
| 17:11:11 | Zagor | glued: I agree it's curious |
| 17:13:12 | JdGordon| | [Saint]: fs#12251 |
| 17:13:13 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12251 user shortcuts in the main menu (patches, new) |
| 17:13:39 | [Saint] | \0/ |
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| 19:00 |
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| 19:04:04 | gbl08ma | I'm figuring out that it's impossible to use a LUA script as a viewer... |
| 19:04:28 | gbl08ma | 1st because I'm not sure if it's possible to access the parameter from a lua script |
| 19:05:35 | gbl08ma | 2nd because I can't seem to be able to open a file with a lua script after putting my script in .rockbox/rocks/viewers and editing viewers.config |
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| 19:24:35 | gbl08ma | the "admin work needed" badge has been on the themes site for how long? and what work exactly is needed? |
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| 19:30:06 | [Saint] | copyright violation perhaps... |
| 19:30:12 | [Saint] | broken themes. |
| 19:30:46 | gevaerts | At least half are people not realising that "report theme" means "ask someone to look at this" |
| 19:30:53 | evildaemon | I HOPE were not sitting on a copyright violation. |
| 19:31:16 | [Saint] | evildaemon: there's likely several. |
| 19:31:22 | [Saint] | but it takes someone to notice. |
| 19:31:31 | evildaemon | And no ones got to them? |
| 19:31:32 | [Saint] | themes aren't reviewed for content. |
| 19:31:37 | [Saint] | they just need to parse. |
| 19:31:59 | [Saint] | so, someone needs to report them, *then* someone needs to *do* something about it. |
| 19:32:24 | [Saint] | asking to review many hundreds of themes for violation is a joke. |
| 19:32:33 | [Saint] | we ask the user does this *before* uploading. |
| 19:32:44 | gevaerts | evildaemon: if you know a system to reliably determine if some image is either original work or licensed under a cc-by-sa license, please tell us |
| 19:32:51 | evildaemon | *shrug* I'd assume no one would review them, I'd just think that if I saw some stuff marked "look at this" and it was for copyright infringement I'd get on removing it pretty fast. |
| 19:33:28 | gevaerts | There are *no* reports of copyright issues on the theme site at this time |
| 19:33:44 | evildaemon | Well okay then. |
| 19:34:00 | [Saint] | I was just using that as an example of what things do get reported. |
| 19:34:20 | gevaerts | But as [Saint] said that doesn't mean all theme uploaders understand the license we ask them to agree to |
| 19:34:44 | evildaemon | Or that there AREN'T any violations, just no ones found them yet. |
| 19:34:58 | evildaemon | (Or reported them.) |
| 19:35:11 | [Saint] | well, if there aren't any...no one could find them. ;) |
| 19:35:13 | gevaerts | well, that's what a violation *is* |
| 19:35:23 | evildaemon | I meant, if there are. |
| 19:35:32 | evildaemon | They have not yet been found. |
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| 19:36:06 | evildaemon | I was continuing on the "That doesn't mean...." |
| 19:36:48 | evildaemon | Regardless, wasn't the original issue about the admin stamp? |
| 19:37:53 | [Saint] | Yes, the admin stamp that pops up when someone clicks "report". But as gevaerts mentioned, lots of people think that button == "hey, this is cool" |
| 19:38:06 | [Saint] | like a Fb "like" button or somesuch :-S |
| 19:40:41 | evildaemon | "This theme has been [strike]liked[/strike] reported 9006 times!!!" |
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| 19:59:10 | Pradyumna | Hii |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:17 | saratoga | kind of interesting results running battery tests on sansa amsv2 players: the CLip+ gets massiely better battery life in rockbox then the OF, but the ClipV2 gets better battery life in the OF then rockbox |
| 20:01:13 | Pradyumna | The playlist in clip+ is showing file names how to change it to show song titles?? |
| 20:01:49 | Pradyumna | Anyone?? |
| 20:02:46 | bertrik | saratoga, interesting indeed |
| 20:03:19 | saratoga | going to rerun the test to make sure the battery bench didn't crap out early |
| 20:03:45 | Pradyumna | hello |
| 20:04:06 | gevaerts | Pradyumna: rockbox doesn't do that |
| 20:04:18 | bertrik | saratoga, battery bench should log the reason for exiting the plugin, something like exiting plugin, reason: poweroff |
| 20:04:30 | Pradyumna | Any other solution?? |
| 20:04:41 | Pradyumna | The file names are too long |
| 20:04:55 | Pradyumna | Artist - Album - Song name |
| 20:05:22 | saratoga | bertrik: it doesn't give a reason, but the voltage reads 3.300 volts, so i'm sure its a battery poweroff |
| 20:07:22 | saratoga | but yeah the results are so strange, i get 6 hours longer in RB then the OF for the Clip+, but 3 hours less on the Clipv2 in RB |
| 20:07:30 | saratoga | that makes no sense for two players with nearly identical hardware |
| 20:08:15 | saratoga | also i get that the Clipv2 battery life in the OF is much better then the Clip+'s which also doesn't make much sense |
| 20:10:53 | [Saint] | odd results... |
| 20:10:55 | Pradyumna | are there other plugins line picture flow? |
| 20:11:01 | Pradyumna | like* |
| 20:11:16 | [Saint] | Pradyumna: No. |
| 20:11:27 | [Saint] | That's the only one of its kind. |
| 20:12:17 | bertrik | hm, there's also a clip v1 runtime result where rockbox gets 5h29m while the OF gets 14h59m |
| 20:12:25 | Pradyumna | I'm On a clip+ all the album art shows ? Is it like that or should i do something |
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| 20:13:19 | [Saint] | Album Art *will* look like shit on a monochrome OLED screen, this is a fact ;) |
| 20:13:42 | Pradyumna | I agree |
| 20:13:46 | Pradyumna | just asking |
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| 20:15:02 | [Saint] | Instead of the pixels displaying (as they're supposed to) either on, or off, we flash them at differing rates to give the effect of different shades. |
| 20:15:18 | [Saint] | its a trick of the eye, to achieve an effect the screen isn't designed for. |
| 20:16:25 | gbl08ma | Pradyumna: The only thing in Rockbox that allows you to display only the title of the songs and ignore the filename is the Database, but that doesn't have any effect on the playlist. |
| 20:17:12 | Pradyumna | Guess i have to rename all songs its the only solution |
| 20:17:49 | Pradyumna | Can we make our own fonts? |
| 20:18:14 | gbl08ma | personally I rename my music files as Artist - Song - Album since this way I can have Artist and Song first, which is how I usually search for music. The rule is: put what you find more important first :) |
| 20:18:44 | gbl08ma | yes you can convert existing fonts into Rockbox font format, there's info on the wiki on how to do that |
| 20:19:51 | gbl08ma | I don't know if the Clip+ is able to display antialiased fonts, but if it is, you better use antialiased. I don't know, however, if there's already a guide written on how to convert AA fonts. |
| 20:20:16 | Slasheri | [Saint]: on lcd that pixel flashing should produce quite smooth shade (lcd reacts slowly), but leds have instant effect. So switching frequency needs to be higher for leds, but probably panel frame rate limits that |
| 20:21:20 | gbl08ma | Pradyumna: If it isn't able to display AA fonts, you can convert to the conventional mono format. This one the Clip+ displays for sure. |
| 20:21:49 | [Saint] | it _should_ be able to do AA, it'd probably look gross, though. |
| 20:22:03 | Pradyumna | I want nothing fancy |
| 20:22:10 | Pradyumna | just box shaped fonts |
| 20:22:14 | gevaerts | [Saint]: AA on monochrome? |
| 20:22:44 | [Saint] | gevaerts: Can't we do the same form of trickery there? |
| 20:22:55 | [Saint] | Oh..right, it needs greylib in core. |
| 20:22:55 | gevaerts | no greylib in core |
| 20:23:09 | [Saint] | ha! finally beat ya! ;) |
| 20:23:18 | gbl08ma | greylib is not in core? |
| 20:24:00 | gbl08ma | (if greylib was put on the core, then AA fonts and greyscale icons could be possible) |
| 20:24:34 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 20:25:41 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@87-206-240-131.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 20:26:10 | gevaerts | gbl08ma: greylib implies more RAM usage *and* lots of CPU |
| 20:26:28 | wodz | greylib in core will kill the perfomance and impact battery life severely |
| 20:26:43 | * | gbl08ma is envy that there are more themes for the monochrome Sansas than for the iPod nanos... |
| 20:27:02 | Pradyumna | LoL |
| 20:27:03 | gbl08ma | ok, i forgot the RAM is limited, the CPU is not that fast and the batteries are not inifnite :) |
| 20:27:22 | [Saint] | quantity isn't quality. |
| 20:27:48 | [Saint] | its one of the easier targets to code themes for. |
| 20:28:00 | [Saint] | you can get away without using viewports pretty easy. |
| 20:30:18 | gbl08ma | personally I would design more themes for the nanos but there're a few problems on my side that prevent me from doing it: 1) I have not much graphic editing skills 2) Nano 2G has no radio so that screen would be missing 3) I have a bit of a hard time understanding the themes language |
| 20:30:51 | wodz | nano can have radio as an addon |
| 20:31:08 | gbl08ma | not the 2nd gen |
| 20:31:37 | [Saint] | errrr.... |
| 20:31:47 | gbl08ma | The only theme work I ever did apart from personal tweaks was porting photoSkins to nano, something I'm still very proud of :P |
| 20:32:08 | [Saint] | there most certainly are FM headphone adapters for the 2G |
| 20:33:09 | [Saint] | I have dumps of all the iPod OF bitmaps, I know its there ;) |
| 20:33:51 | gbl08ma | Rockbox on the iPod Nano 2G has no acessory protocol support yet that I know of. Look, "Radio" doesn't show on the menu on the 2G nano, but shows on the 1G. Obviously the OF has support for those adapters with their own headphone out. |
| 20:34:35 | gbl08ma | the OF has support both on 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G (5G has radio builtin and I gunno about 6G) |
| 20:34:36 | [Saint] | you didn't say "no radio on Rockbox", though. |
| 20:34:43 | gbl08ma | right |
| 20:34:44 | [Saint] | you said "no radio" |
| 20:35:26 | gbl08ma | I don't care about the OF so for me it's like it has no support. Anyways, I don't have one of those adapters. |
| 20:35:59 | gbl08ma | and I don't feel like buying one for an iPod that has a scrollwheel that's getting faulty. better invest the money on a new DAP with builtin radio. |
| 20:36:39 | * | gbl08ma takes a look at the Sansa Fuze again and thinks "I damn need to save money to buy one of these!" |
| 20:37:23 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 20:38:16 | | Join jchysk [0] (~jchysk@wsip-24-234-188-22.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 20:39:05 | gbl08ma | I saw the huge discussion on the customizable menus, junction of Settings with System, Settings -> System, System -> Settings and About menu on IRC logs |
| 20:40:16 | | Part jchysk |
| 20:41:08 | gbl08ma | and I'd like to have my say on it, so quickly, here it is: the only menu I really like to see customizable is the quick screen, that is, if it handled more than 4 entries and did not only support settings but also files/plugins/menu shortcuts/etc. |
| 20:41:45 | | Join coinich [0] (~7d1@giant.haxx.se) |
| 20:41:50 | coinich | anyone on? |
| 20:42:13 | gbl08ma | to handle more than four entries, it would either need to be a menu (thus not being really quick, and you'd loose "blind" operation mode), or be a quickscreen with multiple pages |
| 20:42:25 | gbl08ma | coinich: yes :) |
| 20:43:14 | bertrik | gbl08ma, then at some point we could organise the entries like a list and it would be just like our main menu? |
| 20:44:01 | gbl08ma | well, i think you guys are seeing the main menu as replacement for the quick screen, and that's not how things should be IMO |
| 20:44:03 | coinich | oh hello |
| 20:44:07 | coinich | quick question |
| 20:44:32 | coinich | the main page says the most recent version is 3.9, and it was released in June 2011 |
| 20:44:41 | coinich | I thought there was a major release or patch this past week? |
| 20:44:53 | coinich | was there supposed to be one, but it got pushed back? |
| 20:45:22 | gbl08ma | coinich: this last week there were many improvements, but no stable release has been made |
| 20:45:31 | gevaerts | coinich: there were plans to release 3.9.1 with some fixes last week, but that got delayed. It's not a major new version though |
| 20:46:07 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 20:46:33 | * | gbl08ma thinks we should wait until further decision is made on custom menus and then if they get implemented (and well tested), release 4.0 |
| 20:47:06 | gevaerts | gbl08ma: *decisions* are easy |
| 20:47:10 | gbl08ma | at the end, since 3.9, we already have an audio mixer, buflib in the core and many tiny fixes |
| 20:47:23 | coinich | ah, ok, thanks |
| 20:47:54 | coinich | I must've misread |
| 20:48:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:48:46 | gbl08ma | gevaerts: I know, I mean decision should be taken *and* work on it should be done if we decide to implement custom menus |
| 20:51:12 | * | gbl08ma also *thinks* that multiple/relocatable plugins is something more interesting than customizable menus, and effort should be put on the former instead of spinning around with the latter |
| 20:51:30 | gbl08ma | but I'm not a developer, I'm not the one who works for it :) |
| 20:54:49 | | Join tronse [0] (~c3ab59c4@giant.haxx.se) |
| 20:55:03 | tronse | hello guys |
| 20:55:20 | tronse | ive finally managed to rockbox my clip+ |
| 20:55:48 | tronse | big thanks to bluebrother for helping me last week :) |
| 20:56:21 | tronse | but now i have yet another silly question |
| 20:56:40 | bluebroth3r | tronse: you're welcome :) |
| 20:57:03 | Torne | gbl08ma: there's very little overlap between the required skills/work there, so it's unlikely that one is stopping the other getting done |
| 20:57:27 | tronse | how do i put the clip+ on hold while in rockbox? |
| 20:57:49 | tronse | ive googled this and came up with different answers |
| 20:58:23 | tronse | i was told home + select but this doesnt work |
| 20:58:28 | Torne | if you read the manual you will find the *right* answer |
| 20:58:33 | Torne | :) |
| 20:58:52 | tronse | :) |
| 20:59:07 | bluebroth3r | the manual says Home + Select ;-) |
| 20:59:20 | tronse | the manual also says home button and select? |
| 20:59:28 | Torne | indeed. that's because that's how you do it |
| 20:59:39 | bluebroth3r | hmm, that's for the wps. |
| 20:59:52 | tronse | i tried but no luck |
| 20:59:59 | | Quit tjb0607 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:12 | gevaerts | As far as I know, there's no soft lock outside of the wps |
| 21:00:30 | tronse | oh.... |
| 21:00:33 | * | bluebroth3r has no clip+ so no idea |
| 21:01:03 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@87-194-34-169.bethere.co.uk) |
| 21:01:10 | | Join tjb0607 [0] (~quassel@208-100-128-206.bendbroadband.com) |
| 21:01:21 | tronse | i see... |
| 21:01:24 | tronse | oh well |
| 21:02:04 | Llorean | Why do you want hold outside the WPS? |
| 21:02:29 | tronse | because of accidental press |
| 21:03:17 | Zagor | go to wps before putting it in your pocket? |
| 21:03:35 | bluebroth3r | if the playlist ended / is stopped you might want one. I use hold on my Ipod for that: to prevent it doing things and not having to turn it off :) |
| 21:04:17 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: Does the hold cancel if playback ends, I wonder? |
| 21:04:18 | | Quit coinich (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 21:04:59 | Llorean | tronse: I wasn't asking why you wanted hold in general, but why specifically hold in the WPS wasn't enough. |
| 21:06:33 | bluebroth3r | Llorean: I guess not, but if nothing is actually playing I do see a reason why one might want to enable hold :) |
| 21:06:33 | tronse | oh i see :) |
| 21:07:00 | | Join XavierGr [0] (~xavier@rockbox/staff/XavierGr) |
| 21:07:04 | bluebroth3r | hold is overrated anyway :P |
| 21:07:13 | tronse | heh |
| 21:07:14 | Llorean | bluebroth3r: The Clip+ boots nearly instantly. I'd say turning it off is a valid option if nothing's playing. :) |
| 21:07:19 | gevaerts | bluebroth3r: if nothing is playing, I'd switch the thing off :) |
| 21:07:36 | gevaerts | Playback ending is a valid concern of course |
| 21:07:50 | tronse | i havent actually tried that hold optoon in the WPS |
| 21:07:50 | * | gevaerts also doesn't have a clip+ |
| 21:07:59 | tronse | so i shall try when i get home :) |
| 21:08:23 | bluebroth3r | gevaerts: I did that in the past. Though recently I'm rather enabling hold instead of turning it off −− I need to enable hold anyway, since my backpack has some feature to press Select on the Ipod when I don't want it to do that :) |
| 21:09:02 | gevaerts | bluebroth3r: ipods are too easy to switch on accidentally |
| 21:09:41 | gbl08ma | gevaerts: keep the hold switch on, it won't turn on accidentally |
| 21:09:57 | * | gevaerts doesn't actually use an ipod :) |
| 21:10:07 | bertrik | Did anyone figure out yet what the binutil 2.20.1 vs 2.20.1a thing is about? |
| 21:10:13 | gevaerts | But yes, my gigabeat F tends to be on hold |
| 21:10:28 | bluebroth3r | gevaerts: indeed. |
| 21:10:35 | gevaerts | I don't see myself having that problem with a clip-style switch though |
| 21:11:04 | Llorean | I used to put my Gigabeat on hold all the time. I've never felt the need to use the soft hold on my Clip+. |
| 21:11:21 | Llorean | I typically actually clip it to my pocket, where the buttons aren't likely to get bumped. |
| 21:12:47 | gbl08ma | that's why a Clip is for: to clip :) |
| 21:12:53 | gbl08ma | s/why/what |
| 21:15:05 | gbl08ma | is it just me or the "News" section in the Rockbox Forums is good for burning the screen of old CRT screens? :) |
| 21:19:02 | gevaerts | gbl08ma: it moves! |
| 21:19:51 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel (r30397): Update libgme to Blargg's Game_Music_Emu 0.6-pre. |
| 21:22:14 | CIA-14 | r30397 build result: 457 errors, 460 warnings (buschel committed) |
| 21:23:17 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 21:23:24 | Buschel | great, did compile flawlessly for all of my builds :( |
| 21:24:21 | gevaerts | Buschel: we all get our turn at this :) |
| 21:25:24 | | Quit Pradyumna (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 21:29:23 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel (r30398): Check for CPU_ARM in libgme/blip_buffer. |
| 21:29:27 | Buschel | #1 |
| 21:31:22 | | Join Pradyumna [0] (~Pradyumna@117.197.210.153) |
| 21:31:28 | CIA-14 | r30398 build result: 184 errors, 54 warnings (buschel committed) |
| 21:31:50 | Buschel | good, now to the rest |
| 21:31:51 | tronse | now an offf topic question :) |
| 21:32:25 | tronse | last week i purchased an alienware M11x (R1) |
| 21:32:41 | gbl08ma | tronse: #rockbox-community |
| 21:32:50 | tronse | just wondering what good games i could play on it |
| 21:32:57 | | Quit Zambezi (Changing host) |
| 21:32:57 | | Join Zambezi [0] (Zulu@unaffiliated/zambezi) |
| 21:32:58 | Pradyumna | Just noticed that photoflow shows the album art but only for a few albums |
| 21:33:20 | Pradyumna | any specifications to work on all albums?? |
| 21:33:32 | Pradyumna | CLip+ |
| 21:41:15 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
| 21:42:20 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel (r30399): Fix some more libgme compile issues. |
| 21:44:43 | CIA-14 | r30399 build result: 144 errors, 0 warnings (buschel committed) |
| 21:45:02 | | Quit gbl08ma (Quit: Page closed) |
| 21:48:37 | * | Buschel cannot see the error :/ |
| 21:49:44 | n1s | bertrik: yeah, kugel found it and linked earlier, some license issue with generated files not including the source that was used to generate them, iow nothing that concerns users |
| 21:50:48 | bertrik | thanks, I think we should update rockboxdev.sh |
| 21:51:17 | n1s | yes |
| 21:53:18 | n1s | Buschel: looking at the preprocessed source might help |
| 21:53:57 | Buschel | n1s: I cannot even reproduce this error |
| 21:54:38 | n1s | ah, tricky, seems to be only gcc 4.4.4... |
| 21:59:33 | | Join powell14ski [0] (~powell14s@c-174-51-194-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:59:44 | amiconn | Buschel: I guess it might be due to completely #undef ing assert() |
| 21:59:50 | | Quit tronse (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 21:59:57 | | Quit bluefoxx_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 21:59:57 | amiconn | (in blargg_source.h) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:42 | amiconn | Or rather, redefining it as empty |
| 22:02:29 | amiconn | n1s: Not just 4.4.4, also 4.4.5 (at least) |
| 22:02:38 | amiconn | (homepc-petur) |
| 22:02:59 | amiconn | 4.6.1 too |
| 22:03:15 | amiconn | 4.5.1 |
| 22:03:27 | amiconn | So probably all sufficiently new versions |
| 22:03:37 | Buschel | this damn libgme is giving me a hard time with each big change... |
| 22:04:39 | amiconn | Btw, what would be necessary to enable android builds on a box? |
| 22:06:20 | Zagor | amiconn: install android sdk, ndk and enable arch "android30" i runclient.sh |
| 22:06:32 | Buschel | can anybody reproduce the build errors on his machine? I would like to have a patch tested before I blind-commit it |
| 22:06:39 | amiconn | Sdk & ndk are installed on 'saturn' |
| 22:06:59 | amiconn | The cronjob might have path problems though - have to double chek that |
| 22:07:06 | Zagor | amiconn: you also need environment variables ANDROID_SDK_PATH and ANDROID_NDK_PATH set |
| 22:07:32 | amiconn | Hmm, should probably set those in runclient.sh then |
| 22:09:48 | amiconn | Buschel: Yes I can |
| 22:09:48 | wodz | any schedule for git migration? |
| 22:10:13 | amiconn | gcc 4.6.1 (debian sid) |
| 22:11:05 | Buschel | amiconn: great! -> http://pastie.org/2461790 |
| 22:11:51 | Buschel | does not empty define assert(), but replaces all libgme-internal assert()'s with empty defined require()'s |
| 22:12:05 | Zagor | isn't it better to fix the assert define? |
| 22:12:55 | Buschel | well, the code already had require() and assert(). this way libgme only uses one way (= require()) |
| 22:13:06 | | Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.) |
| 22:14:25 | amiconn | gmrl |
| 22:14:38 | amiconn | The patch doesn't apply. Probably a problem on my end though |
| 22:16:24 | * | Buschel will crosscheck |
| 22:16:40 | amiconn | Hmm, can't find it |
| 22:16:48 | amiconn | I get lots of failed hunks |
| 22:17:31 | n1s | can't you just #define assert() do{} while(0) ? |
| 22:17:38 | Buschel | works for me with "patch -p0 <" against r30399 |
| 22:17:54 | amiconn | That's what I tried |
| 22:18:11 | gevaerts | Line ending issues with pastie.org? |
| 22:18:38 | amiconn | I downloaded it via the 'download' link and line endings look unix-ish |
| 22:18:45 | amiconn | (using wget) |
| 22:19:12 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 22:19:17 | Buschel | amiconn: http://www.sendspace.com/file/o8myhe |
| 22:20:34 | | Part tguinot |
| 22:20:38 | amiconn | That one works... so indeed a download-from-pastie problem |
| 22:20:55 | Buschel | good, so far :) |
| 22:20:57 | amiconn | Unfortunately it doesn't fix the build error... |
| 22:22:25 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@c-68-61-166-99.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:22:25 | | Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) |
| 22:22:25 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 22:25:19 | amiconn | On my box the error is in stdio.h line 417, and that one is related to dprintf |
| 22:25:25 | amiconn | So my assert theory is wrong |
| 22:27:03 | Buschel | look at blargg_source.h :/ |
| 22:27:24 | Buschel | #define dprintf DEBUGF |
| 22:28:56 | Zagor | simple fix: move the local include to below the system includes |
| 22:29:15 | Zagor | we don't really want to redefine dprintf in stdio.h |
| 22:29:38 | Zagor | do we? |
| 22:29:38 | Buschel | amiconn: does this worok? |
| 22:30:03 | amiconn | define 'this' |
| 22:30:11 | Zagor | moving the include fixed it for me (gcc 4.6.1) |
| 22:30:14 | Pradyumna | Good custom font for Clip+ |
| 22:30:33 | Buschel | this = move local include below system includes in ym2612_emu.c |
| 22:30:51 | | Join bieber [0] (~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) |
| 22:30:58 | Zagor | http://pastie.org/2461881 |
| 22:32:51 | amiconn | Seems to work here too |
| 22:33:20 | Buschel | compiles for my environment as well |
| 22:34:45 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel (r30400): Fix residual red, thanks to Zagor. |
| 22:34:50 | Buschel | Let's see |
| 22:34:53 | * | amiconn thinks that blargg_source.h is the correct name for this code ;) |
| 22:36:57 | CIA-14 | r30400 build result: 2 errors, 0 warnings (buschel committed) |
| 22:37:35 | wodz | heh, running time seems count incorrectly. 30s in running time lasts 46-47s on my stopwatch. sleep(HZ*30) in bootloader is correct so this is not pll setup problem |
| 22:37:36 | Zagor | kugel's android build environment is broken |
| 22:38:25 | * | Buschel assumes this is not caused by his changes |
| 22:38:49 | Zagor | I'd say that is a fair assumption :-) |
| 22:38:57 | Buschel | :) |
| 22:42:00 | n1s | wodz: freq scaling? |
| 22:42:17 | wodz | no |
| 22:44:18 | amiconn | Zagor: Hopefully my box will do proper android box in the next round |
| 22:44:30 | Zagor | nice |
| 22:44:33 | amiconn | Err, android builds of course |
| 22:45:26 | | Join nick-p [0] (~nick@82-69-105-120.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 22:45:59 | | Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@yop.chewa.net) |
| 22:46:23 | amiconn | Zagor: Is it possible to block a client from doing certain architectures only? |
| 22:46:38 | | Join Horschti [0] (~Horscht@p5DD579A8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:46:39 | | Quit Horschti (Changing host) |
| 22:46:39 | | Join Horschti [0] (~Horscht@xbmc/user/horscht) |
| 22:47:16 | | Join bluefoxx [0] (fuzzylomba@2002:4647:1f1f::4647:1f1f) |
| 22:48:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:48:27 | Zagor | amiconn: no, it's all or nothing. |
| 22:49:31 | | Quit Horscht (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 22:50:22 | Buschel | good night, and thanks for your support! |
| 22:50:23 | amiconn | Would be helpful if a client has one broken (cross)compiler but is otherwise working fine |
| 22:50:25 | | Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941]) |
| 22:53:51 | | Quit XavierGr () |
| 22:54:16 | | Join glued [0] (~536386b3@giant.haxx.se) |
| 22:54:59 | glued | er... anybody used rockboxdev.sh lately? seems like binutils-2.20.1 were renamed to 2.20.1a at mirrors.kernel.org/gnu/binutils so the script needs to be updated |
| 22:56:42 | B4gder | yes |
| 22:56:51 | B4gder | the older one is mysteriously removed |
| 22:59:00 | n1s | no, the mystery qwas solved, licese issue |
| 22:59:13 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 22:59:21 | B4gder | oh, I missed that |
| 22:59:27 | bluebroth3r | license issue? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:04 | n1s | some generated files were included but not the source for them |
| 23:00:14 | | Join lorenzo92 [0] (~chatzilla@host157-111-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:00:16 | n1s | some lexer thing like bison iirc |
| 23:00:33 | n1s | kugel linked it here earlier |
| 23:01:12 | | Quit lorenzo92 (Client Quit) |
| 23:01:36 | bluebroth3r | ah |
| 23:01:39 | glued | btw, (iirc) the binutils patch had a comment "we don't need this at all when 2.21 is out". and it's kinda out, isn't it? |
| 23:02:07 | n1s | yes, but we don't use it, yet |
| 23:02:30 | * | bluebroth3r wonders why some code that works for the widget doesn't work as notification |
| 23:03:02 | n1s | bluebroth3r: am i right thinking rbutil only makes voice files for the current svn .langs |
| 23:03:05 | n1s | ? |
| 23:03:31 | B4gder | so "someone" should then fix rockboxdev.sh in svn ... |
| 23:03:48 | n1s | B4gder: i already told Mr. Someone to do it! |
| 23:03:52 | B4gder | good! |
| 23:04:10 | n1s | i can do it tomorrow unless anybody else does it |
| 23:04:22 | n1s | as i'd like to test build first |
| 23:04:22 | bluebroth3r | n1s: yes, and releases |
| 23:04:43 | bluebroth3r | err, no, scrap that. |
| 23:04:52 | n1s | bluebroth3r: does it select by magic or does the user have to? |
| 23:04:58 | n1s | ah |
| 23:06:54 | bluebroth3r | n1s: it retrieves the currently installed version from rockbox-info.txt and passes that to the script that retrieves the strings |
| 23:07:12 | n1s | ah, magic :) |
| 23:07:46 | n1s | any idea about fs#12248 then? |
| 23:07:46 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12248 Voice files created but don't match voice prompts with items in menu (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 23:09:03 | bluebroth3r | n1s: kinda :) |
| 23:11:18 | | Join Strife89 [0] (~Strife89@207.144.201.128) |
| 23:11:55 | bluebroth3r | hmm, with the move to git those scripts will break :/ |
| 23:12:39 | | Quit dionoea (Changing host) |
| 23:12:39 | | Join dionoea [0] (~dionoea@videolan/developer/dionoea) |
| 23:19:59 | | Join mt [0] (~mt@41.234.33.83) |
| 23:21:22 | | Quit glued (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 23:24:06 | | Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
| 23:25:06 | | Quit mt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 23:26:49 | | Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:29:33 | | Join Challapradyumna [0] (~Pradyumna@117.197.210.153) |
| 23:32:37 | | Quit Pradyumna (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 23:34:44 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:40:19 | bluebroth3r | I really don't get this. |
| 23:40:41 | [Saint] | ? |
| 23:40:44 | bluebroth3r | setting the image for the notification doesn't work, but the same Uri works for the widget |
| 23:41:01 | [Saint] | What're you playing with? |
| 23:41:15 | bluebroth3r | Album Art in the notification area |
| 23:41:35 | [Saint] | Hehehehe.... /me imagines tiny QVGA AA |
| 23:41:47 | [Saint] | I think I'd get 22px to play with ;) |
| 23:42:00 | bluebroth3r | I get an image displayed, but not the album art one. The same image path is pushed to the widget though, and it works for that. It's basically the same code :( |
| 23:42:22 | [Saint] | Google Music beta does this, would pulling apart an .apk help? |
| 23:42:51 | bluebroth3r | I don't think so. |
| 23:46:55 | [Saint] | What image *do* you get? |
| 23:47:32 | bluebroth3r | none. |
| 23:47:49 | bluebroth3r | and stuff like this in logcat: |
| 23:47:50 | [Saint] | Oh, right, sorry. I missread. |
| 23:47:50 | bluebroth3r | I/System.out( 254): resolveUri failed on bad bitmap uri: /sdcard/rockbox/.temp_albumart_261.jpg |
| 23:48:09 | bluebroth3r | but the same path is passed to the widget |
| 23:49:43 | [Saint] | I think its maybe a delicate beast, this RaaA thing ;) I can remember wondering why the *frick* I couldn't get user selectable backdrops for the widget working. |
| 23:49:55 | [Saint] | Despite sharing most of the original widget code. |
| 23:50:14 | [Saint] | Ummm...backdrops is a bad word. |
| 23:50:49 | [Saint] | I had a "light" and a "dark" widget theme, that for all intents and purposes I thought should have been user selectable at widget creation time. |
| 23:50:52 | [Saint] | ...but nope ;) |
| 23:58:38 | bluebroth3r | now I get a bit more information |
| 23:58:39 | bluebroth3r | W/ImageView( 254): java.io.FileNotFoundException: /sdcard/rockbox/.temp_albumart_261.jpg (Permission denied) |
| 23:58:44 | bluebroth3r | but ... why? |
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