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#rockbox log for 2011-09-23

00:00:13[Saint]If you could post your thoughts/findings to FS #12254 it would be very much appreciated.
00:00:14fs-bluebot RaaA cabbiev2 [Full Touch Application Port] (patches, new)
00:01:52 Quit n1s (Remote host closed the connection)
00:01:56pixelmawell, I wasn't sure if I missed something or not (regarding the scrollbars). It's definitely more usable than SVN cabbiev2 but I'd like to try it a bit more
00:02:56[Saint]Sure, the more testing the better. Preferably with album art, and without.
00:03:16pixelmaI'm currently a bit annoyed by possibly using the latest (working) incarnation of my own theme
00:03:29 Join mudd1 [0] (
00:03:36pixelmaerr... s/using/losing
00:03:53[Saint]No backups?
00:04:16[Saint]Sorry if I caused this, in some roundabout fashion. :-S
00:04:41pixelmanah, my fault in the end
00:04:45polemon[Saint]: so the whole iPod_Control can go?
00:04:59[Saint]It can, yes.
00:05:09polemongreat news
00:05:12[Saint]There's no real reason to delete it, though.
00:05:19polemontakes up space
00:05:29[Saint]It'll just get recreated given the correct circumstances.
00:05:30polemonespecially that "iTunesControl" file
00:05:46Torneit's, like, 2MB when empty ;)
00:05:47polemonok, well, then it'll get recreated
00:05:58Tornethat's not really an amount of space worth reclaiming
00:06:04polemoniPod_Control is around 50MB right now
00:06:14polemon20 of those is a binary file called iTunesControl
00:06:22Tornedid you previously have itunes-synced music on there?
00:06:30[Saint]that's stiall a very trivial amount, if you ask me...but, "meh".
00:06:30polemonyes, but the music is gone
00:06:31Tornealso, 50MB is also not an amount of space worth reclaiming, really :)
00:06:35TorneYou deleted the music?
00:06:48TorneWell, that's the itunes database for the music you deleted, then
00:07:01TorneIf you delete it, it will be recreated, but it will be much, much smaller
00:07:07Tornesince it won't have any database entries :)
00:07:51polemonI just deleted all folders that were there prior to RockBox installation
00:08:15 Quit petur (Quit: Leaving)
00:08:37Torneanyway, deleting them is fairly useless as they get recreated reasonably easily
00:08:50Tornejust set the folders hidden and they won't show up in the file browser in rockbox by default
00:09:27polemontoo late, they're already gone
00:09:51polemonok, I'll reboot the iPod now, and see what I can do...
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00:10:55pixelma[Saint]: found a backup but it's failing to load the WPS currently, probably because of the repeat_press etc. change. (Yes, I haven't updated in a while)
00:11:35[Saint]Ah, that's good.
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00:15:41pixelmathat's what it was
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01:45:54-->"ods 100" received from cgthayer (~chatzilla@
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03:58:15polemonanybody still here?
03:58:42polemonwhen selecting the line selector, how do I make the lines being indented?
04:23:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:24:06polemonor is there some documentation on how to make themes?
04:27:31JdGordonCustomWPS on the wiki for that
04:27:50JdGordoni tihnk lines will be indenteded as long as the title is enabled
04:28:09JdGordonthe scrollbar might need to be on the left also
04:28:19polemonI think it's the scrollbar
04:28:24polemonit indents the lines
04:28:24JdGordonyou can now use thmes to draw the lists any way you like
04:28:30polemon, even when not shown
04:28:53polemonwell, I want to make some older themes work again
04:29:38polemonthings like nClix and ElectricBarsOfColour
04:30:12polemonmaybe I'll do another one in the future, but it seems there isn't many people using old iPod nanos these days
04:30:32polemonalso, how is the support for things like the iPod touch and the latest iPod nanos?
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08:14:00BuschelJdGord: quite some traffic in FS #12273 :)
08:14:02fs-bluebot use buflib for fonts (patches, new)
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08:20:54LinusNLalufu: i didn't write that code, i just committed a patch. however, i think the idea is to send periodic info to the ipod.
08:21:44*Zagor wants more commits today!
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08:25:57n1sZagor: i can give you a whitespace cleanup one if you like :)
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08:29:18LalufuLinusN: yes, the called function eventually is used to send info from the ipod to the device. I was just wondering why this specific method was chosen.
08:30:05LalufuOr maybe I'm trying to misuse some functions.
08:30:30 Quit ej0rge (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
08:30:34LalufuIf I want an event to fire roughly every 100ms, is is a valid choice to create a timeout for that?
08:34:02 Quit JdGord (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
08:35:51LinusNyou can use a tick task to send an event, or you can use sleep() and TIME_AFTER() in a thread. it depends on the application.
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09:01:33LalufuLinusN: ticks are used now, but those are very high frequency, so the tick handler spends most of it's time just returning.
09:01:43Lalufuthat looks like a bad use of CPU time to me.
09:02:08Lalufuthus the idea to register a timeout with a base frequency of 100ms or thereabouts
09:02:47LalufuBut kernel.c says: "be mindful this is not really intended for continuous timers" about the timeout_* functions
09:09:20LinusNthe timeout functions work in the same way as the iap_task
09:09:51LinusNbut the implementation is slightly more efficient than the iap_task
09:11:24LinusNit doesn't really matter how you implement it, since there has to be a comparison to the tick counter somewhere
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09:11:51LinusNwhether you sleep() or add a tick task
09:12:29LinusNsleep() is a little more gentle though
09:17:01Lalufuthe iap handler does not really have a thread that could sleep in a useful manner, it's entirely triggered by outside events
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09:21:16LinusNthen i think a timeout callback might the best choice
09:22:13LinusNas long as it is only activated when you attach a peripheral, of course
09:24:40kugelLalufu: triggered by outside events seemsperfect for a thread
09:25:22kugelyou can queue_wait_w_tmo() with timeout to wait for incoming events (via queue_post() or queue_send())
09:26:07kugelusing timeout_* forperiodic stuff in favor of tick task is a but strange because theey're also implemented via tick tasks
09:26:32Lalufukugel: the current code has two main entry points: iap_task() (which is registered via tick_add_task()) and iap_getc() which is called directly from firmware/serial.c
09:26:39Lalufufirmware/drivers/serial.c even
09:27:35Lalufuiap_task() basically just counts up an internal counter, to queue an internal message every 100 or 500 ms.
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09:27:58Lalufuthe latter seemed kind of duplicate to me, as timeout_* does the same thing and already exists.
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09:29:40kugelyou can use timeout just fine
09:29:46LalufuOK, thanks
09:31:16kugelbut when you say queue an internal message it sounds like more than one message could be in the pipeline. tick_tasks/timeout aren't very suitable for this as you need to implement the queueing
09:33:40Lalufuiap_task() posts SYS_IAP_PERIODIC to the button queue
09:34:41Lalufuwhich eventually leads to iap_periodic() being called
09:35:17Lalufumultiple messages being in the queue for that is not really critical
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10:03:11pamauryjust seen the discussion on tick and timeout, I think most devices also have a generic timer_* implementation so you can register a timer at the frequency you want (and it is *not* based on tick timer)
10:08:10amiconnThe user timer (timer_*) is not meant for permanent use in the core
10:08:29 Join ej0rge [0] (~alhaz@
10:08:44amiconnThis is because many SoC only have two hardware timers. One is already taken by the kernel tick, the other is made available through timer_*
10:09:27amiconnThe latter has a priority framework so that a plugin can "steal" the timer from another module.
10:10:05 Quit milk (Quit: baaaiiii)
10:10:44amiconnOne example is backlight fading on H1x0. It uses the timer, but if the greylib is running (which needs the timer) the timer is taken and the backlight doesn't fade
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10:23:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:30:28pamauryiap is not permanent, on the contrary it has a very restricted usage
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11:37:42Lalufuis there an explanation somewhere how the public interface to the tagcache works and how one uses it?
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11:45:04pamaurynot really, have a look at how tagtree uses it, that's your best chance
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11:59:29nick-pHas anyone spoken with sideral in the last few weeks?
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14:54:18wodzpamaury: Do you have a clue if f+ uses internal codec block or external one through i2s?
14:55:15polemonis there any wor underway to port RockBox to the later generation iPods?
14:55:42polemonversion 3,4,5 would be nice.
14:55:46polemonI don't know aboutr
14:55:52pamaurywodz: it uses an internal block
14:56:15wodzsome work on the 4g nano is started I believe but it is on early reverse engineer stage
14:56:19polemonthe latest iPod, supposedly, they got things right in the latest version
14:56:40polemonis the 4g and 5g anywhere similar?
14:56:54wodzpamaury: so pcm driver should be easy - dedicated dma channel pushing samples to the fifo :-)
14:57:02n1spolemon: probably
14:57:15polemonby the looks of it, it's pretty much the same shit in a new wrapper
14:57:21*gevaerts suspects that polemon means ipod *nano*, since the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gen ipods are supported
14:57:30polemoniPod nano it is
14:57:49polemonthe normal iPods are called "classic" for some reason
14:57:59gevaertsThey aren't
14:58:06n1si don't think the exploit used on the other samsung ipods work on the nano 5g though but i'm not sure
14:58:19pamaurywodz: yes, and you also need to setup the zillions things to make it work, but I don't have much time during the week now. And I also need to implement batteryc harging and touchpad otherwise the device is not usable
14:59:16n1son the 4g nano i think it's flash/ftl that's blocking
14:59:35wodzpamaury: yep datasheet is a bit scary with all this settings to simply play samples
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15:12:59user890104polemon: about the 3g, 4g, etc nanos please see and
15:13:37user890104if these tasks are completed, the resulting code could be easily ported to rockbox
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15:41:30*n1s wants a button to exit usb mode without disconnecting the cable
15:42:55LalufuI'd buy that.
15:45:36pamauryI think most device have a button to *prevent* usb mode on connexion
15:46:02n1syeah, this would be convenient in some cases though
15:47:21ZagorI propose, uh, "left"
15:48:23n1sit will be tricky with the HID buttons though
15:50:41Zagorhow do you mean?
15:51:19n1sleft is in use in some of the HID maps
15:51:19gevaertsIf you use HID, you have to assume that people want *all* buttons I think
15:52:16Zagorbut... if you use hid you don't want to be stuck in the usb mode screen anyway do you?
15:52:16*Zagor is confused
15:53:25gevaertsNot necessarily, but that's the way it works now
15:54:35pamauryin usb mode you can't use the device for anything basically so it's natural to bind all buttons
15:54:38CIA-14New commit by nls (r30583): libtremor: small whitespace cleanup.
15:56:41CIA-14r30583 build result: All green
15:57:20Zagorpamaury: yeah, but it would be convenient to exit usb disk mode but keep charging
15:58:41gevaertsThis should be rather easy to implement, but you need to either take buttons away from HID or only support it without HID
15:59:28n1sperhaps a long press of the "switch hid map" button
16:00:17gevaertsor have a "no actual HID" map in the list where you can exit?
16:00:27Zagoronly without hid is the best imho.
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16:00:41gevaertsIt's easiest anyway :)
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16:01:50CIA-14New commit by nls (r30584): libtremor: arm asm for ff_vector_fmul_window_c on v4 and v5 cores, speeds up c200v1 and fuzev1 by ~0.4MHz and ipod classic by ~1MHz.
16:01:52ZagorI think wanting to be able to exit disk mode while in HID mode is a pretty strained use case
16:02:41n1scan you get out of hid while in the usb screen?
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16:02:54ZagorI guess not
16:03:35CIA-14r30584 build result: All green
16:03:46Zagoralthough since there are mode select buttons in hid mode, having exit buttons is possible too
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16:04:31n1si'd like a regular exit button most but i don't use hid so i might be biased :)
16:04:43*Zagor does the 103 second build dance
16:05:00gevaertsZagor: that's still more than a minute!
16:05:28Zagoradd more machines! we need more power, scotty!
16:06:30*TheSeven adds more build targets to compensate for the additional machines
16:07:13n1swe also need more odd game plugins!
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16:11:44CIA-14New commit by zagor (r30585): Enable mysql_auto_reconnect
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16:12:36CIA-14New commit by zagor (r30586): Also sort builds based on number of able clients.
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16:15:40wodzn1s: I guess you should update CodecPerformanceComparison wiki after massive vorbis optimizations
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16:57:01-->"ods 100" received from cgthayer (~chatzilla@
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20:01:10webguest988is anyone here
20:02:44webguest988how do i request for my model
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20:11:23Buscheln1s: in total your tremor-changes results in a minor speedup on PP5022 (27.4 -> 27.8 MHz) and a huge speedup on S5L8701 (49.1 -> 43.3 MHz). so on nano2g vorbis does now decode faster than mp3 ;)
20:12:31Buschelas you mentioned the target with slower RAM benefits more
20:12:56Buschel(test file was our vorbis_256)
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20:13:38amiconnLooks like you swapped the values for PP5022
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20:14:26amiconnBtw, vorbis is faster than mp3 on PP too if you take into account that mp3 uses both cores
20:14:27Buschelno, I wrote awrong number. should be: 27.4 -> 26.8 MHz
20:15:07amiconnHmm, I should probably test on PP5002 (expected speedup is larger than on PP502x)
20:15:51wodzWhat is our policy with filenames when porting some external code? espeak has source files with .cpp extensions which is a bit weird since this are plain C files
20:16:05amiconnIf it uses dram, that is
20:18:16 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
20:18:42Tornewodz: renaming it is a trivial enough transform that it seems like a good idea
20:18:58n1samiconn: the larger block sizes get the largest gain on targets with small fast iram and slow dram
20:19:08kugelwodz: does it compile cleanly with cc?
20:19:25n1sour test_files have no such file but you can make one with oggenc using q-1
20:19:26kugelgcc will use g++ if it sees .cpp I think
20:19:58Torneunless you've actually tried compiling it with it renamed to .c don't assume it's plain C
20:20:06Torne"not using classes or templates" is not sufficient.
20:20:14n1sour toolchains don't include g++
20:20:24amiconnn1s: Yeah, and dram on PP5002 is slow-ish because of the broken cache
20:21:00Tornewodz: anyway, just rename them
20:21:04n1sas i wrote in the commit message, such a file got a 20MHz speedup on mcf5049
20:21:09TorneIt's trivial for someone updating espeak later to just rename the nw version as well
20:21:17n1s65MHz > 45MHz
20:21:46*amiconn should probably mass-recharge his targets
20:21:55amiconnAnd update, of course
20:22:39n1swodz: yeah, i'll try to update it for the tragets i can when i feel i'm done :)
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20:23:09*n1s has one more thing that helps fast iram slow dram targets he wants to do
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20:23:33n1sand one or two more odd tweaks
20:23:54 Quit Buschel (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:26:03amiconnDo you have a PP5020 target? (not 502x with x>0)
20:26:19n1sno, my only pp is 5024
20:26:51n1sor was that 5022?
20:27:50wodzespeak compiles cleanly with gcc (not g++)
20:28:26Tornegcc ignores you
20:28:31Zagorwodz: try parameter -x c to ensure c not c++
20:28:33Tornegcc still compiles it as C++ if it's .cc or .cpp
20:28:46TorneIt just doesn't link libstdc++ for you
20:29:00Torneyeah. -x c will override the extension
20:30:14n1swe configure gcc with −−enable-languages=c does it still do c++?
20:30:37Zagorn1s: I assumed wodz is using the host compiler
20:31:46amiconnn1s: PP5022 and PP5024 are the same except the latter has an integrated AS3514
20:32:11n1samiconn: right
20:32:12n1sbtw, there's a lot to do if someone wants to help tremor's memory consumption, it basically uses 32 bit types for everything
20:36:19wodzright, with -x c it throws errors
20:37:51Tornethen it's C++ :)
20:39:35wodzfirst error is about S_IFMT not defined so this is header problem rather
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21:18:37wodzok with minor modifications (mainly C type casting) espeak compiles with gcc -x c
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21:35:03pamauryI have to decide what I do for the fuze+ bootloader: header to load at the right location or bootloader copies itself
21:38:13wodzheader is probably cleaner, self relocation is more common approach in bootloaders
21:39:20kugelheader is easier to implement isn't it?
21:39:50kugelyou can even use load_code() api for this
21:40:22wodzself copying is ~4 asm lines + some changes in linker script
21:40:42wodzI think in terms of work both approaches are equal
21:41:35pamauryno, the header thing is because the final bootloader file uses the SB file format, with instructions like "load <bloc> at xxx", so I need the xxx otherwise I must hardcode it. On the other hand, the self copying code is a bit ugly because I already use linker tricks because the bootloader setups the mmu
21:41:44kugeloh I thought we talk about more complex relocation than copying
21:41:53pamaury(so the header will disappear from the final binary, it's just a temporary thing)
21:44:45pamauryok, let's go for the copy approach
21:45:20 Part ironzorg
21:46:33CIA-14r30584 build result: All green
21:46:59pamaurydoes mov rx, pc puts the real pc value into rx or is the an offset due to pipelining ?
21:47:26Tornethat gives you two instructions later
21:48:02pamauryso if the first instruction is at X and I do mov r1, pc, r1 will be X+8 ?
21:48:11pamauryfor all ARMs ?
21:48:19TorneX+8 in ARM code
21:48:21TorneX+4 in thumb
21:48:44TorneNot sure about thumb2. I suspect dragons.
21:48:51pamaurythat will be arm :)
21:49:04pamauryso the self-copying code will be more than 4 lines ;)
21:49:12TorneConveniently this gives you the return address, for branches
21:49:23Tornemov lr, pc; bx r0; nop
21:49:31Tornewill return to the nop, from the routine in r0
21:49:44Tornevital on ARMs that are too old to have a blx instruction
21:50:35Torneanyway, yeah, it doesn't matter how long the chip's pipeline actually is
21:50:50Tornethe ARM programmer's model pretends to have a three-stage fetch, execute, memory pipeline, always
21:51:19kugeladd rx, pc, #8 would do the same (if pc was the current ins), so just slightly more convinient
21:51:35kugelnot actually "vital" :)
21:51:49Torneokay, not vital
21:51:56Tornewell, it's less typing. and i call that vital :)
21:52:15pamauryso I will have to do -8 anyway if I want to get the address ?
21:52:16TorneI have wanted to know the address of the instruction two instructions further on more often than the address of the current instruction :)
21:52:28kugelthat's asuming you do asm :)
21:52:35Tornepamaury: yah. just do sub r0, pc, #8 to get the current instruction address.
21:52:49kugelbut most of the time the compiler does that for you
21:52:54TorneIf you stick that as the first instruction in your binary then that just gives you the load location
21:53:00pamauryok thanks
21:53:36Tornekugel: if yo uneed to know the address of where you are right now you are probably doing asm :)
21:54:22kugelexcept in the "mov lr, pc; bx r0" case
21:54:44Tornekugel: right, but *you* don't need to know that, only the compiler does :)
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21:59:06pamaurylet's see if it works :)
22:01:09pamaurynot quite /o\
22:04:11 Quit y4n (Quit: PÆNTS ØLF!)
22:17:18pamaurythe f+ linker script is becoming more and more ugly
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22:30:32ukleinekthe linker script is currently a topic in ARM-Linux land, too. Ugly is that.
22:33:52ukleinek(if you're interested:
22:34:20wodzukleinek: Did you managed to recover your archos?
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22:35:09ukleinekwodz: not sure. If I only pack say 1G of data it works fine. If it gets more some corruption occurs.
22:35:38ukleinekI already thought about doing some tests to find the broken blocks and mark them bad in the fs
22:35:55ukleinek(not sure that will work, need to read some docs for that)
22:36:03ukleinekanyhow, bedtime here
22:37:28pamaurymanaged to make it work \o/ As usual, linker script proves is not your friend
22:37:35 Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!)
22:37:35pamaury*proves that it is
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22:40:53CIA-14New commit by pamaury (r30587): imx233/fuze+: rework crt0 and linker script to be able to load at any address and self-copy at the right one
22:42:35CIA-14r30587 build result: All green
22:43:06bertrik100 seconds, nice!
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22:44:13pamaurywodz: the header solution would have been easier to implement :) But at least the self-copy one is more general
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22:46:08*Strife1989 wraps things up and heads home.
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23:09:19fmlCan I load a WPS file (by playing it) which is e.g. in the root dir, i.e. not in the wps folder? I can't do that with the latest sim.
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