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#rockbox log for 2011-09-26

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00:11:00kugelamiconn: I wasn't very sure if it's 100% correct, but then I was never sure within mpeg.c
00:11:19kugelit's at least very similar to playback.c
00:11:25kugelso I guess yes
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00:13:06amiconnIt still doesn't fix hwcodec completely, as there's the freeze, but that looks like something going wrong later in the boot sequence
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01:59:22saratogaalright i'm about to lose my mind over these stupid c multidimentional arrays
02:00:15saratogaa struct has member "(*sbsample_prev)[2][36][32] "
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02:00:20saratogahow the hell do i iterate over this
02:01:16saratogai tried *(struct_name -> sbsample_prev)[x][y][z] but that didn't seem to work
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02:09:01saratogayeah the above definitely extends outside the bounds of the source array, although i'm not sure i understand why
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02:12:15funmansaratoga: looks ok
02:12:35funmanwhat type is it? (i wonder why you use * to dereference)
02:13:21saratogaits the mad_frame struct from apps/codecs/libmad/frame.h
02:14:05saratogadoing it in multiple steps (assinging a series of derefenced pointers ) seemed to work
02:14:12saratogaso i guess it was bad parenthesis placement
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02:16:52saratogai think matlab has broken my brain about arrays
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04:28:59[Saint_AndChat]Turns our there is something about the position / whatever of Google music beta's offline cache that raaa doesn't like.
04:29:51[Saint_AndChat]Symlinking it to /sdcard/my documents qorkes fine and the database picked it up.
04:30:14[Saint_AndChat]*works fine, too.
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06:16:54[Saint_AndChat]Cough...bitmap scrollbars with support for transparency, cough...
06:17:25[Saint_AndChat]Then, I could do an "Android " scrillbar :)
06:17:39[Saint_AndChat]Scrollbar, even.
06:18:22JdGordonbitmap scrollbars "should" work with skinned lists
06:19:44[Saint_AndChat]Hmmmmmm. Can I *just* specify a scrollbar in the ui viewport and let the core draw the lists?
06:20:05JdGordonI cant remember, I dont tinhk it's hooked up to work
06:20:30JdGordonoffline cache not working is pretty curious though...
06:20:37[Saint_AndChat]Also, does it respect the scrollbar configuration settings? I can't force it in the default theme.
06:20:54JdGordonif you've got the sim going it would be worth recreating the directory structure and seeing if it barfs
06:21:05[Saint_AndChat]I'd like to do it this way, but it needs to respect the scrollbar settings.
06:21:52JdGordonmy view is that themes should completly ignore user settings, possibly add some configuration in the form of skin vars/settings but ignore the inbuilt settings
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06:22:10[Saint_AndChat]JdGordon: it worked qhen I symlinked it to another location
06:22:18[Saint_AndChat]Really: offline cache.
06:22:47JdGordonright, so its probaly the path :)
06:23:32[Saint_AndChat]That was my initial thought, but I was told that wouldn't be it by the db gurus.
06:23:59JdGordonhook up the debugger and see what happens, i.e trust noone!
06:24:36[Saint_AndChat]Ill poke it in a similar tonight, and hope I get some decent debug output.
06:24:56[Saint_AndChat]I suspect u should if I enable metadata logging.
06:25:21JdGordonyep, that could very quickly tell you whats happening
06:25:26JdGordonyou could even do that now :)
06:25:49[Saint_AndChat]I can sethe problem is, it doesn't barf, it just completely ignores this sir.
06:27:38JdGordonmy db creation just gave up at 35537 files...
06:27:54[Saint_AndChat]I didn't try just renaming it yet. Ill try that on MT phone bow after I put something back in the cache.
06:28:08[Saint_AndChat]*my phone.
06:28:19JdGordongrr... no metadata log file created
06:29:33[Saint_AndChat]<sad trombone >
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07:05:40saratogai'm trying to compile my .S function and .c testdriver, whats the gcc command for the .S files
07:05:50saratogaor is it smart enough to figure out what to do from the file extension
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07:36:02ukleineksaratoga: usually it is
07:36:35ukleineksaratoga: -x c is to force C syntax, don't know what you need to pass instead of 'c' for assembler
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08:45:38polemonI repaired a iPod nano 2g theme
08:46:08polemonI was wondering, I have some files with UTF-8 characters in their names, how can I display them with RockBox?
08:46:24JdGordonuse a font with the needed glyphs
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08:46:46polemonerm, ok, but I don't quite know which font that would be
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08:47:21polemonoooh, nice
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08:48:23JdGordonthere is also a codepage setting but I'm not entirely sure when you need to fiddle with that and when you don't
08:48:39JdGordonspeaking of which, why is that in Display settings? surely its a system setting?
08:48:54CIA-14New commit by zagor (r30605): Use another GNU mirror while is down.
08:50:47CIA-14r30605 build result: All green
08:51:14polemonI just need my japanese songs to be displayed correctly ¯\(°_o)/¯
08:51:34polemonI need to change some fonts in my theme *grml*
08:52:01JdGordonnot necessarily
08:52:19JdGordonmost themes use the system font, so just change it in settings
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08:53:40polemondidn't help, I've chosen fonts with no coverage vor Kana
08:53:48polemonand/or Kanji
08:53:50ukleinekpolemon: settings -> Display -> something
08:53:53polemonI did
08:53:56polemondidn't help
08:54:39polemondefault codepage is UTF-8 now
08:54:43*ukleinek wants a setting: utf-8 with latin1 fallback
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08:54:51ukleinekpolemon: is it really utf-8?
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08:56:29JdGordonhmm, we really should have a theme setting for "16pt font" instead of specifiying it in the skin file
08:58:13JdGordonI think skins will need a preprocessor to do that in a sane way :)
08:59:20[Saint]"most themes use the system font"?
08:59:26JdGordon[Saint]: what do you tihnk about a fonts definition file to do this?
08:59:47[Saint]come again?
08:59:49JdGordonso you'd use %FL(16-custom) which would look up that file to egt the actual font to use
09:00:10[Saint]What's wrong with the way its done now?
09:00:45JdGordonsomeone might want to use a font which doesnt have the chars the font from the skin uses
09:00:48kugel[Saint]: did you see that I posted a list spacing patch with setting?
09:01:39kugelJdGordon: are we now making up use cases? or did someone really ask for this?
09:02:04[Saint]JdGordon: Then its simple enough (IMO) to edit the theme file if the theme is using additional fonts.
09:02:11[Saint]And if its not, its even simpler still.
09:02:27JdGordonforcing the user to modify the theme sucks
09:02:32[Saint]Though...what's your proposal?
09:02:44[Saint]Wouldn;t they need to edit a font list, anyway?
09:02:54JdGordonwhich is a once off thing
09:03:03[Saint]So's editing the theme ;)
09:03:20JdGordonthemes generally need to just specify the font height, the actual font comes down to personal preference
09:03:28JdGordonah but themes get overwritten
09:04:37[Saint]How would this work with themes that *do* define an additonal font, or fonts?
09:04:45[Saint]That gets ignored?
09:05:23JdGordonpotentially yes
09:05:26JdGordonthough probably not
09:05:40kugelIMO the font is part of the theme
09:06:11kugeljust look at gevaerts' medieval theme
09:06:50[Saint]I'm of the same opinion, but, I wouldn;t mind a way to specify multiple fonts, and offer a way to choose between them.
09:07:24[Saint]a theme is useless if the font doesn't have the chars needed for <lang X>
09:07:55ukleinekthe obvious solution is that the language must be part of the theme, too :-)
09:08:10ukleinekah, or fix the font
09:08:16[Saint]...that's effen stupid, sorry ukleinek ;)
09:08:18kugelyes! especially considering rtl langs :)
09:08:48JdGordon[Saint]: yes, the theme is useless without the required glphys, and yes using a different font will change the look, but pretty sure users would go for the latter given the options
09:08:52[Saint]lang specific themes is just....well, yes. lets not go there ;)
09:09:00polemonok, I switched the fonts in my theme, that cover my glyph supplement!
09:09:03polemonall is good now!
09:09:31polemonGNU Unifont is quite awesome!
09:09:43[Saint]and UGLY! ;)
09:09:51[Saint]and *massive*.
09:10:10polemonwell, just for track title, it´s OK
09:10:35polemonI use Nimbus wherever I display small latin letters and numerals only
09:11:25polemonAnd I have to use Sazanami-Mincho
09:11:43[Saint]JdGordon: I'm still not sure how this would work. How would the font be selected?
09:11:43JdGordonand remember to not update the theme :)
09:11:45polemonwhich isn't exactly a nice font either, but it supports my glyph supplement
09:12:14polemonJdGordon: It's actually an old, broken theme
09:12:39polemonI made it work correctly again, something changed with the theme api in the last year or two, obviouslz
09:12:56[Saint]several somethings.
09:12:56polemonand some old themes for iPod nano 2g don't work anymore
09:13:03*[Saint] assumes this is a touchscreen theme?
09:13:09JdGordon[Saint]: probably a "set as <size> favorite" context menu item which would write it to the custom_font.txt file, then themes would just use %FL(<size>)
09:13:20polemonit was called nClix
09:13:56polemonI plan to repair at least Electric Bars Of Colour and Cabbiev 3
09:14:25polemonyou guys should better work on porting RockBox to newer iPod nano's ;)
09:14:39JdGordonthis would of course rely on the user not being a dunce and selecting a 48-pt font for their 16-pt favorite :)
09:15:14[Saint]JdGordon: Changing the size of the font can fuck up a theme massively. I'd go for being able to select different fotns of the same height, but being able to specifiy a different height is a broken idea IMO.
09:15:28[Saint]I know this can be done now with some themes, but a smart themer can prevent this.
09:15:32JdGordonyou've misunderstodd my suggestion
09:16:19JdGordonthe theme shold say "Use a 16pt font, i dont care which, just pick one", the user choose "16-wingdings", it magically works
09:16:54JdGordonnot here... no
09:16:55polemonswtich to open type fonts!
09:17:16polemonLinux-Libertine and Linux-Biolinum!
09:17:22[Saint]Well, the theme should say "use this specific font, of this size, but allow fonts of <this size> to be put in its place".
09:17:41JdGordonsame thing
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09:17:42[Saint]*<this size and smaller>
09:17:55JdGordonthat could be added completly transparently
09:18:41JdGordonand with special handling for bold also
09:19:04[Saint]It could be useful, but, I can't think of a sane way to deal with themes that use multiple different fonts of the same height.
09:19:24[Saint]I guess it'd just need to replace them all.
09:19:37[Saint]Otherwise it'd get far too complex.
09:20:00JdGordonmost places the font is used the actual style doesnt matter
09:20:14JdGordon%FL could get a "FORCE" param to bypass the magic
09:20:47[Saint]kugel: Whoops, sorry...highlight doesn't appear to be working. What params does this setting have?
09:21:02[Saint]A simple on/off, or a value?
09:21:23*[Saint] would prefer the latter, personally.
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09:22:02[Saint]Something like: "Settings - Display Settings - List Padding: 0,1,2,3,4..."
09:22:48kugelauto, off, 2,4,6,...
09:23:34[Saint]Right, cool. I've no problems with it. I missed you pasting the patch I'm afraid. Sorry about that.
09:23:51[Saint]My main concerns were it being a: forced, and b: non-configurable.
09:24:06[Saint]Neither of those are an issue now.
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09:45:56[Saint]kugel: Did you have any more feedback for me regarding the last .zip I got you to test?
09:46:23[Saint]I'll be switching around some font alignment shortly, and putting a new version on the tracker this evening.
09:46:49kugelthere was something...
09:47:15kugelah yes, the rew/ffwd buttons don't do rew/ffwd. they move the cursor in the list
09:47:37[Saint]By tonight I should (hopefully) have the niggles in the graphics for your port sorted out (they were jsut quick resized images, for testing's sake), and have the titlebar using the .lang strings.
09:48:17[Saint]Oh...whoops, yes. I thought I disabled that. There was some reason why (you'd have to ask JdGordon) FFWD/REW isn't possible in the .sbs
09:48:34[Saint]JdGordon: ^?
09:49:07kugelfor the graphics, IMO the grey of the image's background is a bit too light. I know there's two versions of the grey over all cabbie images
09:49:37[Saint]Maybe that's a legacy, and its simply not enabled, I'm not sure. But the touch actions for FFWD/REW shouldn't be there. I'll remove them.
09:49:40kugelIIRC ffwd/rew actions were added
09:50:29[Saint]FFWD/REW has never worked in the .sbs to my knowledge.
09:51:01[Saint]That's the one's I'm using.
09:51:07kugelthat should work for skipping, not seeking at least
09:51:11[Saint]and they move the cursor.
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09:51:23kugelthen it's buggy I guess
09:51:59[Saint]Its never worked for seeking, I seem to recall there being a reason for this described to me. I'm not sure if its still valid though.
09:52:18kugeli think you can only seek in the wps
09:52:29kugelbut skip works everywhere
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09:54:01kugel[Saint]: GodEater made some comments about your theme
09:54:19[Saint]Also, when you say "the backgroud images", I take it you mean the "off/unused" state for the icons such as FFWD/REW (when stopped), shuffle, repeat, etc. ?
09:54:35kugelfwiw, I find the titlebar a waste of space
09:55:12[Saint]better used by....? Its needed for the softlock, also.
09:55:29kugelan additional list item
09:55:33kugelor even two
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09:56:17kugelsoftlock is also rather useless as you mentioned yourself several times :)
09:56:50[Saint]Its quite useful.
09:56:53kugelit's ok in the wps. but IMO not needed in the menus
09:57:03[Saint]that's good, its not in the menus ;)
09:57:07[Saint]you should know that.
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09:57:36[Saint]When and where did God_Eater comment about the theme?
09:57:39kugelI meant the titlebar
09:57:48[Saint]Its not on the tracker, so, I'll ignore it for now ;)
09:59:18kugelthe titlebar is ok in the wps, but IMO not needed in the menus (just so it's clear)
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09:59:46[Saint]Its needed as a button, you didn't think of that.
09:59:56kugelwhat button?
10:00:00God_Eater[Saint]: my comments were "I've not used it" - do you *want* me to put that in the tracker? It doesn't seem right to do so to be honest.
10:00:00[Saint]its actually two buttons.
10:00:42[Saint]God_Eater: Apologies, kugel made it seem as though you'd said something of importance.
10:00:51kugelGod_Eater: oh sorry, I misinterpreted "not since the first time I tried it and didn't like the WPS changes" then :)
10:01:37[Saint]I was fairly certain you did some initial testing for me...
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10:01:56God_Eater[Saint]: I tried it *once*
10:01:56JdGordon[Saint]: isnt the region action wps_next/prev there?
10:02:00JdGordonor something like that?
10:02:27kugel[Saint]: it seems to do the same as the standard titlebar
10:02:30[Saint]JdGordon: Yeah, but in the .sbs it moves the cursor.
10:02:34God_Eaterthe point I was making to kugel was you seemed to have said to him that my lack of feedback to you was indicative of me accepting some feature or other of your theme.
10:02:38JdGordonwps_next shouldnt
10:02:50God_Eaterand I was saying "it can't be - because the reason I've said nothing is because I've barely used it"
10:03:47[Saint]kugel: Its quickscreen, and menu.
10:04:16[Saint]without it, you'd be fucked for a quickscreen and a way to get back to the main menu if you had no HW keys.
10:04:19kugelit's not quick screen
10:04:25kugelnot in this version at least
10:04:43kugeland the standard titlebar does menu
10:04:46JdGordon[Saint]: yeah wps_next and wps_prev
10:04:58[Saint]JdGordon: that's what I'm using.
10:05:06[Saint]they only move the cursor in the .sbs
10:05:21JdGordonI don't believe you
10:05:35[Saint]Try it ;)
10:06:21kugel[Saint]: in my sbs you use prev/rew
10:06:48JdGordon[Saint]: short press of << and >> work fine for me :) )
10:06:54[Saint]well, that's an error. Apoligies.
10:07:10[Saint]right, so that explains that.
10:07:28JdGordonlong press moves the cursor though
10:07:56[Saint]Just so I'm clear, is FFWD/REW expected to work in the .sbs?
10:08:16[Saint]'d be really nice if it did.
10:08:29JdGordonit can be added
10:08:35JdGordonim not sure how easily thouhg
10:09:20[Saint]Its not essential, as there'd be no easy way to see where you were seeking to/from, but, it'd be a nice feature.
10:09:59[Saint]I'd add a seek bar on ffwd/rew, but the UI viewport doesn't cope well with dynamic resizing.
10:10:27[Saint]It seems to need a fullscreen redraw to be triggered, or you get leftovers onscreen.
10:10:55kugelI thought viewport.c clears leftovers
10:11:19*kugel wonders if [Saint] wants to comment on the menu/qs button remark
10:12:20[Saint]kugel: Whoops, I thought I did. It seems I copied it over from the .wps and forget to change the touchscreen area. It supposed to be quickscreen on long_press.
10:12:50[Saint]without that, there's no way to get to the quickscreen from the .sbs.
10:13:17kugelso, the titlebar is just for the quickscreen?
10:13:35[Saint]quickscreen and return to main menu.
10:13:41kugelcould add that behavior to the stock list title
10:14:08kugelthe list title already does that. the list title icon even goes back
10:15:43gevaertsJdGordon: I noticed yesterday that %ss doesn't seem to handle more than one tag inside it. I guess that's not easy to fix?
10:17:04JdGordonwhat second trag do you want to use?
10:18:01gevaertsI wanted to pad things, basically. I suspect I might want a "rotate this text" tag instead...
10:18:12JdGordongevaerts: i tinhk a better way to get another tags value is going to be needed, in general making one tag accept another is simple
10:18:23*gevaerts nods
10:19:09kugel[Saint]: so if we added the quickscreen to the list title, the titlebar wouldnt be needed as button, right?
10:19:26gevaertsA concatenate tag would be reasonably easy to do, but the question is if we want that. If we then get "proper" support, we end up with a *really* useless tag to keep around forever
10:20:25kugelanother one, you mean? :)
10:20:40[Saint]kugel: Technically, yes. But, I happen to quite like the titlebar and don't see the need for more room in the lists. Perhaps you do, as you seem to need gigantic lists as your monkey fingers can't seem to manipulate them ;)
10:20:58*kugel has tiny fingers
10:21:15gevaertskugel: most of the others provide a different way of doing things. This one would literally be "Strip it, and you won't notice the difference"
10:21:15JdGordongevaerts: you want to rot13 your tags?
10:21:30gevaertsJdGordon: not rot13. Rotate the positions
10:22:42JdGordonpositions of what?
10:22:50gevaertsWhat I was trying to do is put lots of scrolling lines under each other, in a one-character-wide viewport. If those scrolling lines have substrings of your string in them starting from increasing offsets, you get (for a while) a nice vertical scrolling text. The problem is that it gets out of sync because those substrings aren't the same length
10:23:17gevaertsJdGordon: basically I want "rockbox" to become "ockboxr", or "ckboxro"
10:23:35JdGordonyou need to either share or stop smoking!
10:23:38gevaertsNow of course this is really a dirty hack to achieve that goal...
10:23:54[Saint]I thought *I* was the king of dirty hacks.
10:24:04[Saint]but, that's a pretty good one GeekShadow ;)
10:24:13[Saint]errr, gevaerts even.
10:25:11gevaertsFor c200, sbs only
10:25:30gevaertsGraphics are *ugly*
10:25:49[Saint]Couldn't you do it *just* with alternating sublines, and no other magic?
10:26:43[Saint]yes, yes you could.
10:28:55[Saint]You'd need 7 alternating sublines, in a one px wide viewport.
10:29:09gevaertsJdGordon: that reminds me, scrolling and skinned lists behave weirdly together I think
10:29:21gevaertsI need to investigate a bit further though
10:29:30JdGordonneed more input
10:30:48gevaertsYes, I know. I just wanted to warn you of a possible upcoming bug report :) I haven't ruled out user error yet
10:40:55[Saint]alternating sublines, no other magic.
10:41:54[Saint](just fixed a small error)
10:42:11*[Saint] likes getting bash to work out things for him.
10:42:41[Saint]unless I'm *really* mistaken, that should do exactly what you want it to do.
10:43:04[Saint]it would be trivial to reverse the order, also.
10:45:21[Saint]I may, or may not, have messed it up, I'l admit to not having tested it...but you can see what I'm going for.
10:46:50Bagderthere, I've wanted to express that for a while and now I said it!
10:48:50[Saint] <−− gevaerts
10:49:20[Saint]That should actually work properly. I missed a line, to add the space.
10:54:41[Saint]It needs no additional magic, or yet another additional tag to achieve.
10:55:19[Saint]I think sometimes people need to look at ways of doing things with what they have, when its already possible, rather than adding a milion tags ;)
10:55:54[Saint]There may be a smiley there, but I'm completely serious.
11:00:00[Saint]there was a theme, many moons ago. A text only theme called "ROFLcopter (iirc) that did something incredibly similar....with the entire screen.
11:05:22LalufuZagor: the new download link for gcc-core 404s
11:06:22 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
11:06:24Lalufulooks like there's a /releases/ missing in the path
11:06:34ZagorLalufu: thanks, checking
11:06:54 Quit bluebroth3r (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
11:13:34polemonwhen making themes, is it OK, to package the fonts I need with the theme?
11:13:59God_Eaterdepends on the license of the font
11:14:54polemonit's one of the fonts that's avilable with the RockBox font packs
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11:15:34God_Eaterpolemon: that should be fine then
11:15:40polemonok, great
11:16:08polemonI just want to make sure, the theme is displayed correctly, etc...
11:19:17[Saint]Its not advised to do so.
11:19:44[Saint]The fonts get updated, and if a user installs the font pack, then your theme, it may downgrade the font.
11:19:47[Saint]so, don't.
11:20:08[Saint]Just advise in the comments that the fontpack is needed for the theme to function.
11:20:25JdGordonon the topic of silly themes... there is a clip theme with pacman as the progressbar
11:20:30JdGordonit is *AWESOME*
11:20:51[Saint]polemon: ^
11:21:03[Saint](that was for you, btw, I forgot to highlight you)
11:21:32[Saint]SO yes, please don't include the fonts in your theme if they are already part of the fontpack.
11:21:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:22:55JdGordonthe themesite rejects it if it is in the fontpack iirc
11:23:05[Saint]AH, good to know.
11:23:29[Saint]Guess he'll find out if he hasn't seen my post already.
11:28:54JdGordonZagor: I've been saying from the begining that RaaA doesnt make much sense and concentrating on splitting the playback engine out and putting a native ui on the top of that makes much more sense
11:28:58JdGordonbut bleh
11:29:19BagderI agree with that
11:29:44JdGordonwtachi's gsoc should have kick started that but apparently didnt get much interest
11:29:56LloreanIsn't that why we had that GSoC?
11:30:01ZagorJdGordon: is he done?
11:30:02LloreanFor projects more or less like that?
11:30:31Zagorit's a monolith task, pretty much. before there's a basic lib there's not much anyone else can do.
11:30:34[Saint]Even after the split...someone still needs to do the native UI.
11:30:42JdGordonZagor: iiuc he got pretty far but seems to have dissapeared
11:30:43[Saint]And I never saw/heard anyone step up for that.
11:33:35[Saint]"Perhaps a reasonable middle ground is to release the current android app on our homepage, for manual installation by early adopters." <−− I'd like to see that.
11:33:38Zagor[Saint]: well it becomes a lot more interesting once it *can* be done. investing a lot of work speculatively is not that fun.
11:34:08[Saint]Without blowing my own horn (I know there's room for improvement) I think the only reason a user would get a poor opinion of Rockbox is if it were to not include my theme work.
11:34:36[Saint]I'm the first to admit it looks like ass without it.
11:34:59Zagorwhere do I download it?
11:35:06[Saint]The tracker.
11:35:15[Saint]One sec.
11:36:02[Saint]I have 240x320, 320x480, and 480x800 ports.
11:36:26kugelwhat happened about wtachi?
11:36:33[Saint]I'm approximately an hour or so away from posting a reasonably large cleanup of images and code.
11:36:39kugelneither he or his mentor said anything about the outcome of his project
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11:37:37[Saint]I was under the impression he'd finished.
11:37:45[Saint](the project, I mean)
11:38:23[Saint]Guess I was mistaken. I seem to recall that he had success in splitting out the playback engine.
11:39:21JdGordonthats what i understood too
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11:46:42kugelmost of his work is not comitted however
11:47:04kugelwhether or not he was successful is determined, why can't anyone just make a statement?
11:47:36*[Saint] parse fails.
11:48:34[Saint]kugel: Are you going to commit the configurable list spacing?
11:48:50kugeli wanted to put it on the tracker first
11:49:02[Saint]Ah, right. Fair enough.
11:49:31LinusNwhere can i find a .apk to try?
11:49:48[Saint]One second LinusN
11:50:05LalufuIf i see the following in an objdump of an ARM object file, what does the ! signify?
11:50:08Lalufu 54: e5a4200c str r2, [r4, #12]!
11:50:32[Saint]right, correct link ;)
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11:51:24kugelLalufu: I think post increment of r4, but you better google for it
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11:53:32Zagor[Saint]: I agree, your theme makes a huge difference
11:53:46[Saint]Thanks, I appreciate that immensely.
11:54:07BagderFWIW, I think I'm in kugel's camp: release the darn thing already on the market
11:54:29ZagorI think the button row is too cramped though. I'd prefer just << || >> there and have repeat and shuffle on the wps only
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11:54:52BagderI think we need to ignore the risk of ruining the first impression and instead try to get more eyes and users
11:54:54Zagorand ideally volume as a popup, the android way.
11:55:12JdGordonnoo... we dont want users, especially not android users :'(
11:55:23[Saint]I'd like to do it as a popup also, but the UI viewport doesn't like being drawn over.
11:55:30Bagderwell, users that write java apps for android =)
11:55:39Bagderand who wants to fix our minor quirks
11:57:02 Quit Jak_o_Shadows (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
11:57:14[Saint]Am I really the only one that thinks playback control shouldn't be limited to the .wps only?
11:57:32Lalufukugel: reading further down the code you seem to be right. #12 is implicitly added to r4
11:57:36[Saint]I'm irked by the fact that you can't seek in the .sbs
11:57:43Lalufunow that's a neat trick.
11:57:45JdGordon[Saint]: I'm worried about accidental presses
11:57:48Zagor[Saint]: no, I like the << || >> buttons being everywhere. I just don't thing shuffle and repeat needs to.
11:59:06kugelshuffle and repeat needn't even be in the wps if you ask me
11:59:08LinusNnote to self: throw away my crappy HTC Desire
11:59:08Zagorwe need to fix some strings too. "Reboot to enable" isn't a useful instruction from the database
11:59:40kugelZagor: I have a patch somewhere to make it work without reboot
11:59:41[Saint]LinusN: You can throw it in my direction, I just bricked my Galaxy today ;)
11:59:50Zagorkugel: commit! :)
11:59:59kugeljust need to mature the other "reclaim free buflib space for audio" before
12:00:01LinusN[Saint]: ouch
12:00:16[Saint]The joys of custom ROMs :D
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12:49:21polemonwhen I want to submit a theme, do I have to make the screenschots myself?
12:49:50[Saint]There's a screenshot function in ROckbox.
12:50:07[Saint]Just enable it, and it'll take a screenshot whever you plug USB
12:50:21[Saint]Its in the Debug (Keep Out!) menu
12:50:33polemonah, never looked in there before
12:54:58polemonwere there iPod nano's 2g with FM tuners?
12:55:36[Saint]Not built in, anyway. None of the Nanos had FM until the 4G
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13:15:24kugel[Saint]: perhaps you can play with the patch's auto setting to get a spacing which is reasonable for you
13:16:09kugelin list.c there's a forumla (dpi*4/11). I made it so it's comparable to androids item size
13:18:04[Saint]I'm not sure its possible to do so for all devices.
13:18:59[Saint]for 240x320, to fit the main menu in without scrolling it, you pretty much want no padding at all with a 28px font.
13:19:09[Saint](and that's very usable for me also)
13:19:25kugelfit with or without your theme?
13:19:41[Saint]the later
13:19:46[Saint]*latter too.
13:21:43kugelthat can't be true
13:22:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:22:33kugelyou have 40px per item (320px / 7 items + 1 list title)
13:23:07kugelbut with my patch there's probably scrolling indeed
13:24:17[Saint]Yes, I was talking about with your patch. Not without.
13:24:37[Saint]the UI viewport for 240x320 is ~270px iirc
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13:25:39kugelwithout your theme there is no ui viewport
13:26:23[Saint]Right...but it looks like ass.
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13:26:39[Saint]No, sorry, it looks like concentrated ass.
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13:27:57kugelanyway, this patch isnt about how it looks
13:29:10[Saint]What's the default setting, of you inteded patch?
13:29:20*[Saint] crosses his fingers and hopes for "off".
13:29:44[Saint]errr, "0", rather.
13:30:28kugelauto of course
13:30:43[Saint]Please no.
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13:30:44kugelI don'
13:30:54kugelI don't make a usability patch and default to unusable
13:31:08[Saint]Let the theme handle it, and let users use this setting *if* they don't think its sufficient.
13:31:27kugelthe patch has no means to let themes not handle it
13:32:07[Saint]by :let the theme handle it", I mean, let the spacing provided by the theme be the "default", and the setting off.
13:32:17[Saint]Users can change the setting *if* they want/need to.
13:32:48kugelI don't make a usability patch and default to unusable
13:33:00[Saint]If its committed before the theme is (almost certainly will be), then fine. When the theme's committed, it needs to default off.
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13:33:09kugelit's NOT a theme issue
13:33:20[Saint]As it seriously fucks up the look of the theme.
13:33:32[Saint]and yes, it is a theme issue.
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13:33:59[Saint]Its a setting for if the theme isn;t sufficient for some...I fail to see why you can't see that.
13:34:28[Saint]the theme provides list spacing, the core shouldn;t add additional spacing by default.
13:34:33[Saint]its just wrong to do so.
13:34:33JdGordonI still have massive reservations against this patch... but what the fuck does my opinion matter?
13:34:46JdGordonseen as im th eonly one doing active ui work </bitch>
13:35:04[Saint]JdGordon: I do too...but, I'm not going to win against it not getting in, so I need to at least be happy with it.
13:36:36kugel[Saint]: the core should be usable by default. no spacing is unusable for me
13:36:48JdGordon*for me*
13:36:56*[Saint] nods
13:36:57JdGordonsince when are you the only user thaat matters?
13:37:05God_Eaterhe isn't the only one
13:37:08God_EaterI agree with him
13:37:26kugelJdGordon: I remember you saying too that the lists are too small in svn
13:37:50[Saint]God_Eater: Didn't you say "that's hideous" when my theme and that patch conflicted?
13:38:04God_Eater[Saint]: but I also don't like how your theme looks without it
13:38:09[Saint]I assumed that's what you were referrign to.
13:38:13God_Eaterit's still too cramped
13:38:36[Saint]God_Eater: Right, I think it should default to off, and let a user specify the spacing if needed.
13:38:49God_Eaterabsolutely not
13:38:54kugelit should default to auto, if it
13:38:55God_Eaterthat means the default is unusable
13:38:56[Saint]I just don't think it should default to auto, you saw what that looks like.
13:39:11kugelit's too big the user can fine tune the padding
13:39:15God_Eateryes, but at least it's usable then
13:39:23kugelin fact, it should even default to "somewhat similar to android"
13:39:52God_EaterIdeally I'd like the font to match the default Android one too
13:40:08JdGordonthen make a default theme which duplicates the android music app
13:40:09kugelperhaps things look less ugly with an item separator
13:40:59[Saint]God_Eater: I did that, with the font, and got shot the *flying* fuck down.
13:41:15kugelnot that I find no-padding any more beatiful than auto padding
13:41:20[Saint]"its a ugly font, get rid of it"
13:41:27[Saint]"its the same as Android"
13:41:36[Saint]"I don;t care, its ugly, get rid of it"
13:41:37God_EaterUgly in the context of cabbie v2 ?
13:41:56kugelit's not the same, it's a lot larger since you need it larger to be able to select items
13:42:02[Saint]Pass. I got that feedback for 3 or 4 people.
13:42:18[Saint]kugel: No, its not the same, now. Very observant ;)
13:42:21God_Eater3 or 4 peoples != "shot the flying fuck down"
13:42:46[Saint]It does when that was the entire testing base of the time bar one.
13:43:02God_Eaterthis is what's wrong with this project
13:43:14God_Eaterwhen cabbiev2 was developed there were a LOT of people working on it
13:43:19God_Eaternot just one
13:43:38[Saint]Do you know how many times I've asked for help? Its a joke!
13:43:41God_Eaterif you're trying to do the default theme for RaaA I'd probably have chosen to start from scratch
13:43:47[Saint]I'd fucking *love* help.
13:43:57God_Eaterwhere have you asked?
13:44:00JdGordonoh? I was hoping you'd say "loud opiniated people get their way, regardless of their level of contribution" :/
13:44:44[Saint]I've asked here several times whenever people said "So, when's port <X> going to be ready"
13:44:55[Saint]Everyone's been quite happy to sit back and leave it to me.
13:45:01God_Eateryes, the cabbiev2 effort was co-ordinated out of the forums
13:45:04God_Eaternot IRC
13:45:11God_Eateras bascially bugger all themers hang out here
13:45:16kugel[Saint]: whenever I asked you you just said "soon, i
13:45:20kugelI'm busy atm"
13:46:09[Saint]I didn't ask you, no. I assumed if you cared about the themes we wouldn;t have the current joke of a touchscreen default theme.
13:46:22kugelGod_Eater: but with cabbiev2 we had usable ports to develop on :)
13:46:26God_Eaterouch - not called for
13:46:33God_Eaterkugel: also true :)
13:47:03God_Eater[Saint]: take it down a notch please, if kugel hadn't already worked his ass of there wouldn't BE an RaaA.
13:47:29[Saint]It may be badly worded, but there's been no effort to fix the *badly* broken svn theme.
13:47:38[Saint]that's all I meant.
13:47:48God_Eateryes, but that's not kugel's fault
13:47:58*kugel wonders in which way it's badly broken
13:48:13God_Eateryeah, and it's really not that badly broken
13:48:16kugelI use it just fine since ever
13:48:19God_Eaterit works quite nicely with the list spacing patch
13:48:30[Saint]the FFWD/REW pops up whenever you touch the screen anywhere, overtop of the logo, for one.
13:48:35Zagor"with this patch" != svn
13:48:44God_EaterZagor: I realise that
13:49:00kugelZagor: true, but [Saint]'s effort isn't solving this one
13:49:02God_Eaterit's not the same as saying it's badly broken without it either
13:49:12Zagorkugel: it does for me
13:49:13God_Eaterthe WPS works perfectly fine
13:49:24God_Eaterit's only the menus which are too small
13:49:27kugelZagor: really? how?
13:49:39[Saint]Thankyou, Zagor. Thankyou.
13:49:40kugelbigger font?
13:49:47ZagorI think the svn code is massively better with his theme than the default
13:50:47kugelZagor: we're specifically not talking about looks
13:50:56ZagorI am
13:51:13[Saint]Zagor: Do you find the lists usable?
13:51:18Zagorlooks is vital for an android app
13:51:18kugelI don't disagree that it looks better
13:51:35kugelmy concern is usability,
13:51:42Zagor[Saint]: I do, yes
13:52:16[Saint]Which is why I think this intended spacing patch should default off.
13:52:17Zagorthere are still things to do, of course. but I'm much more optimistic about releasing on Market after trying [saint]'s theme
13:52:38kugelso, I
13:52:41[Saint]Oh yes, I'm the first to admit it needs a lot more work. I'm getting there, though.
13:52:54kugelI'm not surprised the list is more usable with a bigger font
13:53:21Zagorone quirky thing is that settings such as treble don't show the setting once you scroll the list
13:53:31ZagorI mean the current setting
13:54:09God_EaterZagor: you don't think the list should scale out to fill the screen then?
13:54:15[Saint]I'm not sure how its possible for a theme to break that.
13:54:56ZagorGod_Eater: vertically? no, I don't think that's important
13:55:23ZagorI count 12 lines in the list. that's already more than most android file managers I've tried.
13:56:02[Saint]all ports should have between 11~13 slots in the list unless my math is bad.
13:59:14God_EaterZagor: perhaps scale isn't quite the right word
13:59:31God_Eaterbut I believe if we want wide android market adoption, our lists should look as much like android ones as possible.
14:00:00[Saint]In that case, we need line seperators, and Setting sublists.
14:00:16[Saint]I'd be for that.
14:00:50Zagoras long as they behave as an android user expects, I'm not so sure it matters if the pixels are a little different.
14:01:13God_Eateryes, I don't think we need to implement them as native android ui controls just yet
14:01:19God_Eateralthough I'd still like to see that eventually
14:01:20[Saint]A blurb in a smaller font describing a settings function/state would be a good thing for a labrinthing menus IMO.
14:01:52God_EaterI also wish we didn't hide the status bar in android, but I've no idea if that's deliberate or something that's a function of running an NDK app like ours
14:02:22[Saint]it uses sysfont, so, its pretty much unusable on even the 240x320 port
14:02:35Zagorno, the android status bar
14:02:44[Saint]Ah, right.
14:02:55God_Eateryeah, I want to see if new emails have come in etc.
14:03:10kugelyea, we should work with it, but it's not nice for themes
14:03:22Zagoryeah, that would be nice. yay, yet another dimension for themes... :-)
14:03:23JdGordontrying to emulate the android lists is a waste of time
14:03:33JdGordonand by the way, it can already be done with svn
14:03:57[Saint]setting sublists would need to be hardcoded, though.
14:04:00God_Eaterwhy is it a waste of time?
14:04:16JdGordon[Saint]: setting sublists?
14:04:35JdGordonyou mean inline settings? - which was on my plate to work on?
14:04:47[Saint]JdGordon: The small blurb that describes a settings function and/or state in Android.
14:05:03[Saint]And yes, I remember now you thought about working on that.
14:05:07JdGordonyeah, we could add that if it were really wanted
14:05:22[Saint]It'd be nice for new users.
14:05:34JdGordononce again, *with SVN* you can exactly copy the android lists with a theme
14:05:41JdGordonoh right, thats too much work
14:05:57JdGordon(exactly minus the scroll bar thing, but that too is on my todo list)
14:06:23*JdGordon randomly points out that his todo list isnt going to happen if his current motivation levels doesnt severly rise
14:06:38[Saint]I'm not sure how we'd translate the "inline settigns" (is this what they're called?) though.
14:06:41God_Eaterit'll just get moved to Mr Someone's
14:06:59JdGordonin theory
14:07:07[Saint]Its so hard not to burst out laughing at that.
14:07:20[Saint]Mr. Someone hasn't been very active lately ;)
14:07:25God_Eaterhe never is
14:08:06ZagorI think painstakingly making a pixel-perfect emulation of android 2.3 is a waste of time.
14:08:28kugelnobody wants to do that
14:08:36[Saint]I also like the fact that Rockbox is Rockbox, and Android is Android, personally.
14:08:41JdGordonsounds like you want to get retty damn close
14:08:55Zagoryeah, or settings are a bit arcane and strange. but we're not alone in android-land with that. most games have their own weird settings too.
14:09:16*kugel wonders how we went from "somewhat similar" to "emulate/clone"
14:11:11Zagor[Saint]: the problem is inviting new users to it, if it's "too much like rockbox and too little like android"
14:11:53 Join pondlife [0] (~Steve@rockbox/developer/pondlife)
14:12:06Zagorit has to look good, and work intuitively (i.e. similar to other apps in android). it doesn't have to look perfectly native imho.
14:12:43*JdGordon slaps Zagor
14:12:50JdGordonyou're not allowd to use the word intuitive
14:12:56JdGordonits a nonesense word!
14:13:02Zagorno it's not
14:13:04JdGordonpondlife: long time no see!
14:13:12Zagorin this context it means "without surprises"
14:13:22God_Eaterhe must have been reading the logs, and is going to wade in with his wisdom ;)
14:13:30*God_Eater waves to pondlife too
14:13:39pondlifeHi guys
14:13:58God_Eaterand probably also wants to know "Where is my H340?" :)
14:14:40JdGordonZagor: intuition is nonsense... ill give my phone to my not-yet-5 year old nephew who has never used an mp3 player and he'll figure out how to play music in rockbox
14:14:44pondlifeIt'd be nice...but I can still run an H340 sim
14:15:02God_EaterJdGordon: yes, but give it to your 90 year old grannie and same thing won't happen
14:15:11God_Eater5 year olds are pretty adaptable
14:15:36JdGordonthats not intuition, thats expectation which is very different
14:15:42Zagorandroid is different. android users expect apps to behave reasonably similarly
14:15:44JdGordonnot expectation... my english sucks tonight
14:16:16pondlifeThat's kind of why I dumped my first thoughts on using [Saint]'s theme (and indeed a recent Android port)... if you get used to something you can fail to see how unintuitive it is.
14:16:21JdGordonanyway, in the context of the list spacing patch, it can already be done in the theme which is where it shold be done
14:16:57pondlifeI'm more concerned with the Onda/Clip+ problem right now..
14:17:18pondlifeJdGordon: Have you traced any of this through?
14:17:45kugelJdGordon: why needs everything needs to be done in themes now?
14:17:58kugelthemes have always been an extra, not mandatory
14:18:25pondlifeJdGordon: Sorry, back in 20
14:18:33kugelI disagree I need to find a suitable theme for something which clearly isn't a theme thing
14:20:25JdGordonpondlife: no, I havnt looked into it at all, I've got side tracked and lost motivation to bother. It does affect the clipv1 which i can easily test with though, so maybe...
14:20:59[Saint]I happen to think that if the lists aren't usable, its the themes fault. If someone says "I can't press this button on my touchscreen theme" you don't adjust the core to suit it.
14:21:26[Saint]If my lists aren't usable, I'll damn well try to make them so.
14:21:41kugelthemes weren't even concerned with lists until a few days ago..
14:22:06kugelnow it's entirely up to the theme?
14:22:13Zagor[Saint]: on the other hand, if you mistakenly wipe the rockbox dir it would be good to at least be able to navigate enough to select the new theme...
14:22:30Zagorwith sysfont on 480x800 that is not easy at all
14:22:52kugeldoable with list spacing
14:23:12JdGordonZagor: sysfont on any touch target is always not useable
14:23:21JdGordonbut dont they default to grid layout if that happens?
14:23:24[Saint]Zagor: Which is why I back kugels patch completely, but not for it to default on. There could be magic added that if the fallback theme is the only option, it defaults to "auto".
14:23:48JdGordonany by the way.. list spacing isnt going to help with sysfont on android anyway
14:23:52Zagor[Saint]: what if the theme controls the setting?
14:23:54JdGordonits still going to be impossibly small
14:24:10ZagorJdGordon: small to read, yes. but at least if would be selectable
14:24:18kugel[Saint]: you toggle between supporting it and fighting against it in an amazingly quick fashion
14:24:24[Saint]Zagor: It can't, as far as I'm aware.
14:24:29JdGordonZagor: not without a capacative stylus
14:24:56[Saint]kugel: No, I support it. I *want* it to go in. I don't want it to default to on/auto, though.
14:25:01ZagorJdGordon: in that case I guess I don't understand what the spacing patch does
14:25:18kugelZagor: it does what you think
14:25:29kugelyou can use the thumb even with sysfont
14:26:10Zagor[Saint]: ok, but wouldn't that be a solution? default is on, to make core usable even with sysfont. but a theme can choose to override it?
14:27:15[Saint]If the theme overrides it, then a user wouldn;t be able to adjust it if they felt it wasn't enough.
14:27:32JdGordonskin viewports need to completly disable it by default or it will break evry current theme
14:27:32[Saint]I want it to be a users choice.
14:27:57Zagor[Saint]: yes, but again: how can we make a "naked" core usable?
14:28:17Zagorit least usable enough to select a theme
14:28:20Zagor*at least
14:28:47[Saint]Zagor: It could default to auto if the failsafe is the only theme option available, /probably/.
14:29:01[Saint]I assume that magic could be added.
14:29:53JdGordonthis cant possibly work with themes in a user configurable way
14:30:01JdGordonsimply because the viewport confiuration is static
14:30:21[Saint]It may still be hard to use with failsafe and sysfont, though. As far as I'm aware the padding added isn't touch sensitive. It just spaces out the touch sensitive lines.
14:30:28JdGordonand having themes not override the setting will break all existing themes
14:30:33[Saint]it'd probably still be pretty hard to hit a 12px line.
14:30:51[Saint](depending on the target, of course)
14:31:00Zagor[Saint]: sure, but you wouldn't risk hitting the wrong one.
14:31:08[Saint]that's correct.
14:31:50Zagorkugel: would you agree the main focus is to get the failsafe/builtin theme usable?
14:32:07kugelthis and the default
14:32:15kugel't care about other themes
14:32:36 Join beta2k [0] (
14:33:26[Saint]The default theme should do this *in the theme*, not with a core addon.
14:33:45polemon%Sx() in themes is for translation, right?
14:33:51[Saint]If its not usable, its the theme's fault. And I'll try to address this.
14:33:56JdGordonpondlife: yes
14:34:00[Saint]polemon: Correct.
14:34:11JdGordonpondlife: err. i meant polemon
14:34:14polemonit's not documented in CustomWPS...
14:34:19[Saint]the string needs to exist in english.lang
14:34:39[Saint]You can't translate arbitrary strings, of course ;)
14:34:41kugel[Saint]: why?
14:34:55JdGordonI also think it should be higher priority to make sure its never possible to get the failsafe theme
14:35:08[Saint]kugel: Why what?
14:35:15kugel"not with a core addon.
14:35:27kugelI don't see this as an objective
14:35:35[Saint]Because its the themes job to handle the UI.
14:35:51polemonit seems nobody cares about iPod nano 2g themes anymore :(
14:35:54kugelbesides it doesn't make sense anyway, depending on how you define core addon
14:36:08kugel[Saint]: the *look* of the UI
14:36:24kugelthere's a lot more to UI than just look
14:36:27JdGordonyou're going to argue this isnt the look?
14:36:28[Saint]polemon: What makes you say that? I've already created the most awesome Nano2G theme there is, ever :P
14:36:44polemon[Saint]: which one is it?
14:36:52polemonand don't say pen+paper
14:37:00kugellist spacing is not primarily about look yes
14:37:21polemonuh... iLike is like nothing changed since using RockBox...
14:37:22kugelI made it so I can actually use lists
14:37:25polemonit's a bit sad...
14:37:51[Saint]polemon: Why would it change? Its a faithful representation of the Apple OS.
14:38:10[Saint]unless Apple changes it, it won;t change...and Apple's done with the Nano2G.
14:38:11polemoncan I simulate the .fms view in the simluator?
14:38:26JdGordonpolemon: There is an evil quote of me getting pissed of with [Saint] because i tested his theme on my ipod video, forgot about it and wondered why rockbox wasnt booting :)
14:39:20polemonmaking those themes is a bit painful, though...
14:39:30polemonI wish it could read and compose PNGs
14:41:13Zagorwhy the heck did the gnu people start naming the files different from the versions?
14:41:55polemonbecause: rms
14:42:50Zagoryeah, they did a fix release because they forgot some files. but why the name policy change?
14:42:56[Saint]<JdGordon> i hope my ipod vid has music on it.. and battery
14:42:56[Saint]<JdGordon> hahah S_a_i_n_t, you twat!
14:42:56[Saint]<JdGordon> I booted my vid and wondered why the fuck it got into the OF
14:42:56DBUGEnqueued KICK [Saint]
14:42:56[Saint]<JdGordon> curse your ilike theme
14:43:00[Saint]...there we go ;)
14:43:08Zagorit screws up our compiler compiler
14:43:26JdGordonyou didnt have to repaste it...
14:45:04BagderZagor: possibly because it is a rushed and patched release?
14:45:26Zagoryeah, maybe
14:46:36 Quit Farthen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:46:51polemonwhy only BPM?
14:47:32Zagorkugel: I think our focus should be "how do we fix this for default without ruining every custom theme"
14:47:40Bagderpolemon: why is BPM painful?
14:48:02polemonBagder: no anti aliasing when composing images onto the background
14:48:14polemononly 1-Bit alpha
14:48:22CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:48:22*[Saint] assumes polemon means .bmp
14:48:30Bagderso its lack of alpha you're talking about
14:48:37Bagderwhich is WAY more than just image format
14:48:46polemonPNG has it
14:48:54Bagderbut rockbox doesn't
14:48:55polemonmuch more easier to create an UI with it
14:49:00 Join Farthen [0] (~Farthen@2a01:4f8:101:2a4:0:bc28:b2e1:9)
14:49:20[Saint]do your work in .png and export it to bitmap. done.
14:49:21JdGordonjpg is more likely than png
14:49:33polemonjpg is poo
14:49:33Bagderso if rockbox would support PNG tomorrow, it would have to convert the alpha to a fixed color
14:49:42polemonat least in UI design
14:49:46polemonartefacts, etc
14:49:58kugelpng is great. we should support it
14:50:15polemonit is, it IS!
14:50:27kugelunlikely though
14:50:32polemonlibpng is PITA, though
14:50:47Bagderagain, don't confuse PNG with alpha channel
14:51:14kugelwe support png in a plugin, but not alpha IIRC
14:51:26polemonI'm not, you could take any other image format that has 8 bit alpha
14:51:39Bagderit is NOT about the image format!!!
14:52:14polemonI don't see what you're so agitated about
14:52:26Bagderbecause it seems you don't get it
14:52:38Bagderrockbox has no alpha support
14:52:46Bagderit doesn't matter what image format you add to that
14:53:04polemonI know, I've been doing this kind of programming...
14:53:05kugelBagder: That's not entirely right :)
14:53:11Bagderyou'd first need to implement actual alpha
14:53:23BagderI don't count the "chroma-key" style as alpha
14:53:25kugelwe have anti aliased fonts, with 4bit alpha channel
14:53:27 Join wodz [0] (
14:53:32Bagderah right, for fonts
14:53:35Bagderforgot that
14:53:42wodzwe do interpret alpha in png plugin
14:53:45kugelI guess someone could make it work for images in theory
14:55:03 Join webguest36 [0] (
14:56:32wodzAs far as I remember the main concern about png graphics in themes was memory needed + time to decode. You will need to decode all images on theme load and cache decoded version.
14:56:57polemonthat's what I expected...
14:58:04 Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
14:58:21polemonwodz: are you talking about the lz compression of PNG?
14:58:28wodzthe memory hit would be huge as you first need to load whole file int mem, uncompress it and finaly convert to native format.
14:58:58polemonhmm, ok, then uncompredssed, but with alpha
14:59:06 Quit webguest36 (Client Quit)
14:59:35Torneso are we done arguing about themes on android yet? :)
14:59:47TorneZagor: I totally understand your lack of desire to be the go-to guy for the git server as well
14:59:58Tornedoes anyone have alternative suggestions?
15:00:03ZagorTorne: that was bagder :)
15:00:10TorneYeah, ok
15:00:12TorneWhichever :)
15:00:16pixelmareading the backlog about (a) list spacing and (b) font selection based on font size is quite... interesting. People saying (a) was rather done by the theme say that (b) shouldn't be done by the theme only - and vice versa
15:00:20Zagorsame same, but different :)
15:00:25TorneZagor: so, er, what do we want to do about that?
15:01:44Zagorunless someone desperately wants to host on his very stable machine, I think we go forward with installation on www
15:02:18TorneZagor: ok.
15:02:31TorneZagor: so, i am back in the UK now and thus I can actually manage to talk to you
15:02:38JdGordonpixelma: well, they are two different issues
15:02:42Tornepacific time turned out to be inconvenient ;)
15:02:46polemonuncompressed TGA, mazbe?
15:03:12ZagorTorne: excellent. I think I'll have some time tonight.
15:03:39TorneZagor: OK, good. I'll ping you when I get home from work, then
15:03:43scorcheZagor: i could always throw it on mine if need be...
15:03:48wodzpolemon: without hardware support for alpha blending (and most of our targets don't have such) it is pointless
15:04:20TorneZagor: what webserver does www run?
15:04:33ZagorTorne: apache2
15:04:56Tornethe "nicest" way to configure gerrit is to install mod_proxy, then, and set up a reverse proxy for the vhost or similar
15:05:14 Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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15:05:46Tornesince then it can be on port 80
15:05:54Tornewhich is more firewall-friendly and less typing
15:07:39pondlifeJdGordon: Heh, sorry. I was hoping to help you with the Clip+ issue (didn't see it also applied to ClipV1), by building some Onda/Clip+ code for users to try. However it'll likely be much quicker for you to just attack it some day..
15:09:39polemonwodz: well, then blending in software!
15:09:57pixelmaJdGordon: sure, but I don't see such a great difference with regards to the question "what should be handled by the theme (only) and what with a setting"
15:10:37wodzpolemon: than you will need to blend on every lcd update - that's gonna hurt
15:11:36polemonpre-blend and store the resulting bitmaps in cache files
15:12:43polemonor, well, there could be a blending compiler for themes
15:12:56JdGordonpixelma: I still dont understand your point
15:13:02JdGordonthey are two very different issues
15:14:44JdGordonchoosing the font is more about making sure the text is actually readable and not so much about the look
15:15:41 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
15:15:53polemonoh great, I made him leave
15:22:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:37:10[Saint]pixelma: Its not saying that font selection shouldn't be done by the theme, in fact, I don't think that was said at all.
15:37:49 Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s)
15:37:50[Saint]It was said that the theme should specify a font, and a font size, but users should be allowed to chose a font within the range specified by the theme, optionally, if they chose to.
15:38:28[Saint]The theme is still handling the font by default, and the theme still governs what fonts can be used.
15:38:58[Saint](that was my interpretation of the conversation, at least)
15:39:22JdGordonnot quite what I was suggesting but close enough
15:39:31[Saint]By the way pixelma, did you have any comments about the cabbie full-touch theme?
15:41:01[Saint](its cool if you don't, just curious. I've been getting a LOT of feedback from the cyanogenmod community I've become a part of but its all pretty much useless noise)
15:42:14*[Saint] discovers he needs at least one new lang string.
15:42:33[Saint]I need "Screen Locked" to do the titlebar with full translation.
15:43:14pondlife[Saint]: Hope you take my comments in the intended spirit... ;)
15:43:37[Saint]pondlife: I didn't actually parse it particularly well.
15:43:45[Saint]I wasn't sure what you were getting at.
15:44:10pondlifeMainly didn't like the pop-up window with the Q C stuff in.
15:44:41pondlifeMost of what I spotted is probably not theme related really.
15:45:42pondlifeAlso, the theme setting didn't seem to work because my paths were different - no .rockbox
15:46:01pondlifeNot sure why - I just installed Rasher's latest build from apk
15:46:03[Saint]I did it that way to maximize the screen realestate that can be used by the most important factors in the .wps
15:46:26[Saint]those being metadata, playback controls, and AA (subjective)
15:46:48 Part LinusN
15:46:51pondlifeI agree, but don't think shuffle/repeat are that important.
15:46:58[Saint]pondlife: there's no .rockbox
15:47:03[Saint]its "rockbox"
15:47:17[Saint]And, if you've not tried the theme in a long time, it might pay to try it now.
15:47:24pondlifeI tried today's
15:47:43[Saint]Ah, right. You'd need to re-apply the theme from theme settings.
15:47:51pondlifeI did
15:48:01[Saint]It should've worked fine, then.
15:48:13pondlifeThought the theme file had a .rockbox in... what's the FS# again?
15:48:27Zagorno, it's rockbox/
15:48:33Zagorwithout the dot
15:48:40ZagorI was briefly confused by that too
15:48:48pondlifeYes, it is on the device.. but I maybe got the wrong download?
15:49:09*pondlife downloads again
15:49:56pondlifesbs: /.rockbox/wps/
15:49:57*God_Eater has distributed an apk and a theme file to a few people at work for his test audience
15:50:17pondlifecabbiev2.cfg contains dots
15:50:21[Saint]the theme .cfg uses ".rockbox"
15:50:31[Saint]but that points to "/sdcard/rockbox/
15:50:39[Saint]that's a little confusing.
15:50:41God_Eaterhow does that work?
15:50:53pondlifeIt doesn't ;)
15:50:59[Saint]Oh, it does.
15:51:01pondlifeOr it didn't for me
15:51:04[Saint]I assure you it does.
15:51:33pondlifeDo you have a link in /.rockbox or something?
15:51:37God_Eaterwho decided that bit of obfuscation was a good idea?
15:51:44pondlifeI'm not root...
15:51:52[Saint]there's no symlink, no.
15:51:57[Saint]and you don;t need to be root.
15:52:21God_Eaterthis seems a very very dumb idea
15:52:32pondlifeIt did pick up the WPS, font, backdrop ok, but not the sbs
15:52:57pondlifeI get the tiny default status bar
15:53:00God_EaterI wouldn't know what an sbs looks like
15:53:07God_Eaterso no way to tell what happened with it here
15:53:11[Saint]Works for me, worked for others testing today...and since its creation.
15:53:35[Saint]God_Eater: If you had playback control in the main menu, it loaded.
15:54:05God_EaterI didn't
15:54:07pondlifeI may have put something in the wrong place, of course... will recheck tonight
15:54:14God_Eaterthere was definitely no playback control
15:54:23[Saint]Hmmm...this is curious.
15:54:34*God_Eater will attempt to screenshot
15:54:53[Saint]Zagor: you definitely had playback control in the main menus, yes?
15:55:12God_Eaterhmm - I lie actually
15:55:12pondlifeBah - sysfont unusableness occurs
15:55:16God_EaterI just didn't notice it
15:55:18God_Eatersorry [Saint]
15:55:28[Saint]God_Eater: *phew*, no worries ;)
15:56:58[Saint]the reason for the .rockbox/rockbox weirdness is unknown to me. But the /sdcard/rockbox/ dir is essentially a symlink to .rockbox in the internal memory.
15:57:17[Saint]files in sdcard/rockbox are given first pecking order over files in internal memory.
15:57:30[Saint](which is why I can directly "replace" cabbiev2"
15:58:15pondlifeOn a not-quite-related subject, is there any way to make the database browser ignore stuff above /sdcard?
15:58:36pondlifeMaybe it should use the same root folder as the file browser?
15:58:42[Saint]pondlife: "database.ignore"
15:59:01pondlifeYes, but I would have to root my device to put one above /sdcard
15:59:06[Saint]make a blank file named "database.ignore" and put it in the root of the sdcard.
15:59:08kugelsymlink is the wrong term, but whatever
15:59:09pondlifeIt's all read-only up there
15:59:13pondlifeI mean in /
15:59:25[Saint]pondlife: Ah, then, no.
15:59:25pondlifedb picks up all sorts of Samsung stuff
15:59:27God_EaterI didn't think RaaA indexed outside of /sdcard
15:59:31kugelthere's no /.rockbox
15:59:37[Saint]God_Eater: It walks the whole FS
15:59:46God_Eater[Saint]: another peculiar decision
15:59:49kugel"/.rockbox" is the magic for whereever the appropriate place is on the host platform
16:00:09pondlifeWe already have a start folder for the file browser - I'll make the db use that
16:00:15kugelGod_Eater: doing the whole FS wasn't a decision
16:00:21God_Eaterpondlife: why not root your device though? :)
16:00:26kugelit happens to be hardcoded in the database
16:00:48[Saint]God_Eater: I've mentioned it needs a "start database here" option like the filebrowser has, even looked into doing so (but it was above me, I thought I could do it, it seemed simple, but I messed it up)
16:00:48pondlifeGod_Eater: I'll let [Saint] answer that ;)
16:01:20pondlifeBesides, I have a bad rep when it comes to bricking in the name of Rockbox.
16:01:30God_Eateroh come on
16:01:32God_Eateryou only did it once ;)
16:01:35[Saint]Wait, what am I answering? ;)
16:01:49kugelI have been too lazy to implement a list of search dirs for the database (not a single one). the framework is there
16:01:53pondlifeGod_Eater: Twice actually
16:01:55kugeljust the setting is missing
16:02:06God_Eaterpondlife: oh? What did you do other than the H340 ?
16:02:11[Saint]kugel: Ah, nice. WHen was that added, and where?
16:02:17pondlifeSame one twice
16:02:24[Saint]I can't say I noticed such a thing but didn't look terribly hard.
16:02:25God_Eaternow that's dedicated
16:02:30[Saint]I tried to reinvent the wheel.
16:02:48pondlifeI must hate that H340 (H380 the second time)... and Linus...
16:02:52kugelwell, whatever commit fixed the handling of recursive symlinks
16:02:54God_Eatertalking of which, has LinusN finished resurrecting it yet?
16:03:01kugelthat introduced multiple search roots
16:03:11pondlifeYes, but he's experimenting on it to work out what broke
16:03:22[Saint]Hmmmm. That's quite possibly more recent than my attempt to add it.
16:03:35God_Eaterpondlife: that's not "finished" in my book ;)
16:03:39kugelit's ages ago, but after the start filebrowser here thuing
16:04:11pondlifeA single entry would do me... consistency across browsers being good too...
16:04:37[Saint]pondlife: You mention "\Phone\rockbox" dir?
16:04:38God_EaterI'd want the DB indexing my google music cache, and the file browser to stay the hell out of it
16:04:41kugelfilebrowser start has little to do with where the music is, imo
16:05:09pondlife[Saint]: That's how it appears in Windows - probably not true.
16:05:28kugelsomeone just do a setting in the fashion of autoresume, a list for dirs
16:05:29God_Eateryou still using that creaky OS then? :)
16:05:33[Saint]you also say it shows the Android status bar.
16:05:43kugelthen initialize the search_roots in tagcache.c with that
16:05:43[Saint]something is VERY wrong with your device.
16:06:06pondlifeNo - I want it to show the Android status bar
16:06:24[Saint]Ah, sorry, I missread. We all do, its not currently possible.
16:06:44pondlifeIndeed, I was just braindumping
16:07:09kugeli hacked a patch together for this
16:07:14kugelshould be on my git
16:07:18kugelbut it's very immature
16:07:31kugelalso ages ago :)
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16:07:48 Join bluebrother [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
16:08:03[Saint]WHat .apk did you download pondlife, and from where?
16:08:13pondlifeRasher's.. hang on a mo..
16:08:18[Saint]I really have no idea why your device isn't displaying this properly.
16:08:24[Saint]it *is* working correctly.
16:08:29 Join fs-bluebot [0] (
16:08:37[Saint]pondlife: that's fine, I know the ones."> - 480x800
16:08:50[Saint]the 480x800 port is actually the most mature port.
16:09:07JdGordonwho you calling mature?!
16:09:08[Saint]and it *does* display correctly on other devices.
16:10:22God_Eaterpondlife - try grabbing Zagors?
16:10:40 Join freddyb [0] (
16:11:39pondlife[Saint]: Probably user error, don't worry
16:12:30pondlifeI'm at work at the moment and don't have my phone cable handy.
16:13:15God_Eaterdownload direct to the phone
16:13:35pondlifeWork pressure ;)
16:13:47God_Eaterexcuses excuses
16:13:49[Saint]Yet time for IRC, classic ;)
16:13:55God_Eateryeah, exactly
16:14:07pondlifeIRC doesn't involve thinking
16:14:27God_Eaterneither does downloading to a phone
16:14:41n1sIrc can also look like you're working :)
16:14:49pondlifen1s is on the case
16:15:02ukleinekusing the phone looks like working, too
16:15:03[Saint]"(don't favour file browser over database!)" also confuses me...
16:15:07[Saint]do I do so?
16:15:32God_Eaterthen you can scan it and not even have to type anything :)
16:16:01pondlifeNope, you're not going to get me involved now ;)
16:16:56God_EaterPS [Saint] - that's how I want all links from you in future ;)
16:17:20 Join matze` [0] (
16:17:48[Saint]pondlife: Did you at some point, use a Rockbox build with the "resources on /sdcard patch applied? And if so, did you chose to not replace files while extracting?
16:18:19[Saint]that's the *only* way I can explain the behaviour you're seeing.
16:18:25[Saint]even then it doesn;t make a lot of sense.
16:18:38pondlifeI definiely would have overwritten all.
16:19:15[Saint]"Reason for closing: Not a bug - Device is weird and broken" ;)
16:19:26pondlifeI did have a previous installation moved to the card... but had to uninstall that before I could get the new apk to install.
16:19:45pondlifePresumably that's normal ... ;)
16:20:05[Saint]it wouldn't be if the signing keys were the same.
16:20:05God_Eateronly if the previous install was built by someone other than rasher
16:20:09bluebrotherthat's normal if the apk's are signed using a different key
16:20:20[Saint]three in a fow, nice ;)
16:20:24bluebrother(debug keys expire after some time, iirc 1 year)
16:20:26[Saint]*row, too
16:20:54*bluebrother thinks that shutdown in menu thing should be handled by features.txt
16:21:30bluebrotheris there any reason this isn't the case right now?
16:21:33[Saint]You might care to know that shifting to the sdcard breaks our lovely widgets, too, pondlife
16:21:46bluebrotherotherwise I might give it a go later today
16:21:55[Saint]bluebrother: the very vocal "you dfon't need shutdown in an Android application" crew.
16:21:55pondlifeCool - why do we allow it ;)
16:22:14[Saint]pondlife: Its not a question of "We".
16:22:20[Saint]its Androids fault.
16:22:47pondlifeSome apps keep the option greyed out, I believe...
16:22:49[Saint]It allows you to move to the sdcard, but it doesn't make any claims that the app will continue to work correctly ;)
16:23:08God_Eateryes, so we should disable allowing it
16:23:24pondlifeCan we not specify some kind of "non-movable" attribute?
16:23:32God_Eateryes we can
16:23:36God_Eaterplenty of other apps do
16:23:38bluebrother[Saint]: well, it's not about having shutdown in the menu (on target x) but simply by handling it slightly different :)
16:23:43n1sbluebrother: just think noone did it, i think car adaptor mode is the same
16:23:46[Saint]the "fix" for this is having the widgets as seperate .apks
16:24:12bluebrothern1s: ok, will give it a go later then. AFAIU it shouldn't be hard at all
16:24:26n1sor, well at least in the manual, dunno if that's what you were talking about :)
16:24:27[Saint]bluebrother: Good luck...
16:24:38bluebrother[Saint]: it's not about enabling it for Android ;-)
16:24:50bluebrother(but that would make enabling it for Android a one line change)
16:24:52[Saint]I cannot remember who, but there were some very vocal people regarding Android apps not needing a shutdown.
16:25:07[Saint]bluebrother: Ah, right. Gotcha.
16:25:15pondlifeIt should be enabled for Android while we still have "Reboot to enable" splashes ;)
16:25:31pondlifeKilling the service isn't very obvious
16:25:37[Saint]That splash is broken, anyway.
16:25:47n1sdo we still have those?
16:25:50[Saint]it tricks users into thinking a full reboot is needed. Its not.
16:26:02pondlifen1s: DB rebuild
16:26:04[Saint]n1s: Yes.
16:26:09kugeln1s: the db one is the only one left I think
16:26:24kugelcoincidentally the most obvious one
16:26:25n1saha, i thought they would go away with the buflib stuff
16:26:46kugelyea, but the db isn't as simple as the buffer size it needs isn't known beforehand
16:27:10kugelit can be done by taking away lots of memory. but that needs to be reclaimed at some point
16:27:14[Saint]can it steal all available buffer, then give back the rest?
16:27:36[Saint]...that's a bit ugly, though.
16:27:49pondlifeIt has to do this while playback runs though.
16:27:58pondlifeSo, not *all* memory
16:28:01n1skugel: no realloc style feature in buflib?
16:28:22kugelyou need temp memory for realloc
16:28:41God_Eaterwhy does it need to do it whilst playback runs?
16:28:54pondlifeIt's a background scan
16:29:02n1skugel: not any more that you need for any other alloc
16:29:15pondlifeYou can listen to stuff while it proceeds at the moment..
16:29:23God_Eaterbackground scans don't need the reboot afterwards though
16:29:36pondlifeThis one does
16:29:37God_Eaterit's only the initial scan which does though right?
16:29:47[Saint]God_Eater: I thought so.
16:29:58kugeln1s: if you want increase X by Y, you need to make an alloc of X+Y, memcpy() and then free X
16:29:59[Saint]Seems we may be wrong, though.
16:30:03God_Eaterthis'll be me never using the DB
16:30:10kugelit's not implemented, and I'm not sure we need it
16:30:24n1skugel: or move whatever is in the way
16:30:31[Saint]I've leaned towards the filebrowser too lately.
16:30:53kugeln1s: implmenent it :)
16:30:57[Saint]I used to use the DB a lot, but its not even init'ed on my phone/DAPs anymore.
16:31:10n1skugel: i don't care about the db :)
16:31:43pondlifeLooks like I'm the only db user left then ;)
16:32:08[Saint]pondlife: Yes, the only one in the world ;)
16:32:14[Saint]Its all up to you now, champ.
16:32:17n1spondlife: i think sideral uses it too but he's not been around much lately
16:32:59pondlifeOK, I'll do a deal with him.... if we both agree to stop using it, can we have anything remaining in the fund? ;)
16:33:06pondlifeJob done.
16:33:55Zagordid anyone look into what is required to use the android db instead or in addition to our own?
16:35:18God_Eaterit's sqllite
16:35:24God_Eaterso we'd need that for a start ;)
16:35:43Zagorisn't there an api for it?
16:36:51Zagornot that I'm sure what benefits it'd give, other than dodging the user question "why do you have your own db?" :)
16:37:19God_EaterI'm sure there is an API for it yes
16:38:23God_Eaterwould we do a translation layer between our tagcache query language, or just bin that completely in favour of SQL ?
16:38:48Lalufuis sqlite small enough?
16:39:02n1sZagor: that server has a different dir structure for gcc than had so won't find gcc now
16:39:56Zagor:-[ and binutils can't be found because FSF screwed up their release
16:40:20n1si thought they symlinked those back
16:40:23Lalufudownloading binutils worked for me some hours ago
16:40:32Zagorn1s: not on at least
16:41:12n1sthe sunet server has them though
16:41:18 Quit WalkGood (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
16:41:30n1si really love the inconsisteny
16:41:35Zagoror, hey, the did for .. everyone except the one we use: 2.16.1
16:42:14God_EaterLalufu: we don't care how small sqllite is really - we get it for free on Android.
16:42:18TorneThe GNU mirrors do just all have crazy random directory layouts
16:42:28n1sah, 2.15 and 2.16 indeed miss the non-a symlinks
16:43:43polemonwhat are the maximum dimensions the cover art can have?
16:43:45LalufuGod_Eater: well, if you're switching to sqlite on one platform it might be usable for all of them.
16:43:56LalufuI for one would not mind being able to use SQL queries
16:44:09n1sTorne: yeah, it's fun for srcipting
16:44:19kugelZagor: the android db supports only a subset of the formats we can play
16:44:30God_EaterLalufu: oh, it's too big for all the embedded targets
16:44:37God_Eaterwe've been through that discussion before
16:44:42Zagorkugel: ah, right
16:45:26kugelin fact, our db scan is so quick we should just do it by default :)
16:45:43n1si think sqlite was 100+ kB in size ompiled for arm
16:45:45God_Eaterkugel: is there something we can do to populate the android DB ourselves?
16:45:57God_Eateror is it read only for apps?
16:46:13TorneYou can't touch it
16:46:14kugelI guess read-only
16:46:28God_EaterTorne: fix it pls. More formats kthx.
16:46:59[Saint][03:43] <polemon> what are the maximum dimensions the cover art can have? <−− there are none.
16:46:59TorneGod_Eater: it already differs per-device because some vendors replace the media framework :/
16:47:09*Bagder presses reload on the "formats supported by db" page to see the changes come in
16:47:09God_EaterTorne: *vomit*
16:47:13[Saint]but its totally useless to have AA that's any larger than the width of the LCD
16:47:18[Saint]polemon: ^
16:47:51God_EaterTorne: is it only vendors can replace the media framework?
16:47:55God_Eateror can we do that too?
16:48:12 Quit casainho (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110905174115])
16:48:15kugelwe can provide our own android version yes:)
16:48:24God_EaterUnhelpful: get right on that pls
16:48:26Bagderwe need rockboxmod, the custom android
16:48:31kugelwait, we already have an OS :P
16:48:51God_Eaterwe need to just get folded into cyanogenmod
16:49:08God_Eaterleave the rest of the OS to the clever people ;)
16:49:17God_Eaterand we do what we're good at
16:49:43[Saint]Rockbox as an Application on Android in Rockbox as an Android OS. (RaaAoAiRaaAOS...?) ;)
16:50:09Bagderlet's run android as a plugin in the rockbox os!
16:50:17God_EaterI'm pretty sure CM replaced the default music app in CM6
16:50:25God_Eaterit wasn't super popular
16:50:28*[Saint] nods
16:50:35God_Eaterbut there's not reason they couldn't do it again with a super awesome music app like Rockbox
16:50:40LalufuJust to get my terms straight, the screen that's shown while a song is playing (with the progressbar and all that) is called the WPS, right?
16:50:55God_EaterLalufu: yep, the "Whilst Playing Screen"
16:50:56[Saint]Lalufu: Correct
16:51:10God_Eateror While even
16:52:12Zagor[Saint]: can you make it so the quickscreen goes away when I tap a second time? right now I don't know how to make it dissapear...
16:52:38[Saint]Zagor: tap the quickscreen in the middle
16:52:41Lalufuis there a way to programmatically force the player to switch to that screen?
16:52:41 Quit mikroflops (Quit: <(^_^)>)
16:52:42[Saint]I can
16:52:43God_EaterZagor: back button?
16:52:51[Saint]'t theme the quickscreen
16:53:35Zagorneither works. tapping the middle brings up the qs but doen't bring it down again. and back throws me to the file browser!
16:54:12polemon[Saint]: got it
16:54:18[Saint] you mean the *actual* quickscreen? Or my .wps popup?
16:54:28ZagorI mean the wps popup
16:54:33polemonit just has to be 24bit BMP, right?
16:54:40[Saint]It will disappear by itself.
16:54:42Zagor...I guess
16:54:49[Saint]perhaps I should reduce the timeout
16:54:54Zagoroh, indeed it does
16:55:10pondlifeThat's why I don't like popups...timeouts are bad...
16:55:11[Saint]I didn't want it to disappear before a user gets time to make a selection.
16:55:19polemon[Saint]: did iPod nanos had FM tuners? is the FMS actuallyever used on them?
16:55:19Zagoris it possible to make it go away the second tap?
16:55:20[Saint]its a fine balance
16:55:49polemons/ye/y e/
16:55:57[Saint]Zagor: I believe so, yes. But each selection from it should open a different screen.
16:56:10Zagorit's particularly confusing, because when you tap again to remove it the timeout resets and you feel it's going to stay forever :)
16:56:16[Saint]So, by the time you're done what you're doing in that screen it should time out.
16:56:48Zagor[Saint]: yes, but I didn't want to do anything. I just tapped the screen, saw the popup. "ok, that's nice. now go away. *tap*. please? *tap* grrr"
16:57:11[Saint]Right, gotcha ;)
16:58:09Zagorpersonally I feel shuffle and repeat should go into that popup
16:58:11[Saint]I believe it can be done with more skin variable magic.
16:59:16pondlife[Saint]: Is it intended that long press on the WPS shows the playlist? Or is that the "hotkey"?
16:59:36[Saint]pondlife: that's Hotkey
17:00:06[Saint]Zagor: Would it be better if I flipped long and short press in that instance?
17:00:17[Saint]So the pop-up didn't launch accidentally?
17:00:41[Saint]Avoiding accidental keypresses is *hard* :-S
17:00:41Zagorno the popup launch is fine. I just want to feel that I am in control of it.
17:00:53pondlife[Saint]: I guess I need a hotkey option for "Context menu"
17:01:00Zagorthough I would prefer not having it popup on Hotkey. it gets a bit flickery.
17:01:20Zagoror was that what you meant?
17:01:50[Saint]come again? I'm not sure what "prefer not having it popup on Hotkey" means.
17:02:06pondlifeI get the feeling that the "long" keypress timer isn't quite long enough
17:02:19pondlifeI keep doing long presses when I want short ones
17:02:27Zagorwhen I long press, I get first the popup and then (200ms later) I get the playlist view
17:02:39[Saint]there was a patch to make that configurable at one point, but it never made it into svn.
17:03:03[Saint]Zagor: that's...interesting. That really shouldn't happen.
17:03:25[Saint](and doesn't for me)
17:03:27pondlifeI don't think it needs to be configurable, but it seems shorter tahn on other targets I've used.
17:03:33pondlife[Saint]: I see that too
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17:03:49polemonomg, I have the greatest idea ever!
17:03:50pondlifeThe popup appears just before it triggers the hotkey action
17:04:01polemonwhy not use vector graphics for the UI!?
17:04:12God_Eaterbeen thought of before
17:04:36polemontoo complex, eh?
17:04:56[Saint]too much for most targets to handle.
17:05:25n1swould vector graphics even work well for the relatively small resolutions we want?
17:06:18God_Eateryeah I don't see why not
17:06:19polemonyou can adjust the anti aliasing level in SVG for instance
17:06:35BagderI doubt it'd work very well
17:06:51Tornelibsvg is *massive*, also
17:06:53Zagorvector fonts typically look crap at small sizes
17:07:05God_Eaterwe *could* perhaps adapt to using vectors in the code base, and generate bitmaps from it at build time
17:07:07polemonTorne: that'd be probably the killer factor
17:07:10[Saint]Zagor: pondlife: It seems I may have just never noticed this.
17:07:14Bagderand we have monocrome and greyscales with very few colors for anti aliasing
17:07:22[Saint]it seems there's a problem with the touch area "none"
17:07:23God_EaterZagor: I don't believe we meant vector fonts - just for icons and such
17:07:24polemonZagor: fonts, but what about graphics
17:07:29[Saint]Its fixable, but not with a theme.
17:07:56pondlife[Saint]: Keypress actions should generally be on key release if there are long/short options..
17:08:36[Saint]Right...but, I didn't write the touch interface stuff ;)
17:08:42[Saint]Not. My. Problem ;)
17:09:01God_Eateris your problem
17:09:01polemoneventually, you need to take those things into account, there's things like the iPod touch and the latest iPod nano, which kind of thrive on vector graphics and alpha blending
17:09:10God_Eaterpossibly not up to you to fix though ;)
17:09:23God_EateriPod touch is unlikely to ever get the love
17:09:37God_Eaterand all the new nanos need us to keep finding ninja exploits on them
17:09:39polemonDAMN KEZBOARD!
17:10:05[Saint]polemon: You're not taking into account that (whereever possible) things implmented in Rockbox need to run on all targets.
17:10:08polemonhmm, but isn't it a matter of time, really?
17:10:09God_Eaterpolemon: mainly because no-one here gives a damn about porting RaaA to iOS
17:10:12Tornebecause nobody will ever be able to install rockbox on iOS without hacking it
17:10:21Torneand this is a huge disincentive to anyone caring about porting it
17:10:24[Saint]And, a LOT of our targets just DON'T have the grunt for your proposals
17:10:38polemon[Saint]: sure, but there's the color UI and the text based one, too
17:11:04God_EaterI like the idea of keeping the graphics as vectors in the source repo and generating target appropriate bitmaps from them at build time though
17:11:08God_Eaterthat would be cool :)
17:11:13polemonso, things like vector graphics and such would be the next logical step, wouldn't it?
17:11:16TorneGod_Eater: That is a neat trick if you can get it to produce acceptable output
17:11:21[Saint]A lot of colour UI targets are *really* underpowered.
17:11:29TorneGod_Eater: not always easy, though; fonts are hinted for a reason
17:11:32[Saint]We don;t want it to take ~20 seconds to load a screen.
17:11:33God_EaterTorne: I'm not volunteering to get it working mind ;)
17:11:39[Saint]let alone screen refreshes.
17:12:01God_EaterTorne: and again, I wouldn't even bother doing this with fonts
17:12:04God_Eateronly with icons
17:12:12TorneRight, i'm just drawing ac omparison
17:12:15polemonIt's not like i want vector graphics on my old iPod
17:12:23TorneVector graphics also often look crap when you scale them down too far
17:12:30Tornefor the same reasons vector fonts do
17:12:34Torneand SVG doesn't have hinting :)
17:12:35polemonbut the latest players are well capable of that and have large enough screens...
17:12:44[Saint]Icons use transparency, there's already a script to produce an iconset from the tango set.
17:12:47Tornepolemon: you say that but it's mostly *not the case*
17:12:49[Saint]the result looks like ass.
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17:12:57 Quit WalkGood (Changing host)
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17:12:59God_Eaterpolemon: I think what we're all saying here is "We await your patch to do this with interest"
17:12:59Tornepolemon: Current MP3 players are, mostly, not much more powerful than ones we already support
17:13:02TorneThey don't need to be
17:13:03Zagorverctor graphics as source format is sensible. vector graphics on static-size targets is ... not.
17:14:05polemonwell, I'd be OK, with that, but themes would need to be "compiled" stand alone.
17:14:28[Saint]polemon: What we're all saying basically is.....get coding.
17:14:46[Saint]Put something on the tracker, and we'll talk then.
17:15:08polemonok, ok, don't get mad
17:15:13[Saint]I'm not.
17:15:52 Join mikroflops [0] (
17:15:57[Saint]You'd know if I (or others) were, there's be various swears incorperated into the mix ;)
17:16:09polemonI installed RockBox for the first time ever earlier today, so it's not like i can whip out stuff just like thatn
17:16:30[Saint]And neither can we ;)
17:16:31polemonI'm in the process of making my second theme, and I still don't know where the FMS comes in on iPod nanos
17:16:35God_Eaterpolemon: when I said earlier the idea had come up before, I wasn't kidding ;)
17:16:39 Part Zagor
17:16:39[Saint]Especially when its totally impractical to do so.
17:16:47God_Eateryou aren't the first person to come in and feel like you've just been shot down
17:16:57God_Eaterso chill - it's happened to us all at some point ;)
17:17:21[Saint]Ohhh no, certainly not ;) Its happened to all of us. We've all had "the big idea"
17:17:39[Saint]But, those ideas need to be capable of running on some *really* low powered hardware.
17:17:44God_Eateryour idea even has the merit of not being entirely stupid ;)
17:17:53God_Eatersome people's great ideas are just f*cking moronic
17:18:01[Saint]I'll second that! ;)
17:18:06[Saint]I've had a few of those.
17:18:31God_Eateronly a few? :)
17:18:53[Saint]I'm quite delighted that this is your first appearence and its not just "Can haz Rockbox betterz plz?"
17:19:09God_Eaterpolemon: go take a look at GoldenQuotes in the wiki
17:19:41[Saint]L0rD AsuKa wanted help to port Android to his iPod Nano1G, for instance ;)
17:19:57[Saint]there've been some classic ones.
17:20:32polemonhe's been watching too much Evangelion, me thinks...
17:20:48[Saint]And huffing a lot of glue...
17:21:52[Saint]Your idea about images taken from vector graphics at compile time is partially in place.
17:22:02[Saint]The problem is, it produces shit results.
17:22:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:22:19[Saint]Which need to be cleaned up by hand, making it totally pointless.
17:22:55[Saint]We use a "magic colour" for transparency in Rockbox (you may have noticed), this doesn't sit well with resizing images.
17:23:21 Quit Bagder (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
17:23:30[Saint]As you get a magenta (our magic colour) ring around all the images as it tries to be "smart" when resizing and blend edges.
17:28:32polemonI'm reading the golden quotes right now
17:28:50polemonseems you had some fun with recouring people at times...
17:29:23 Quit pondlife (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
17:29:55[Saint]"You broke my iPod Touch" guy is a good read.
17:30:15polemon"Guess I'm new around here anyways I'm porting Android OS to my Ipod Nano 1st Gen and My wii I might need some extra help"
17:30:29polemon> I might need some extra help
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17:34:36UnhelpfulGod_Eater: ...actually i'm already working on integrating ffmpeg as a demuxer and decoder for the stagefright media library - it should give stagefright everything you get from ffmpeg, except for subtitle, aspect ratio, and stream selection support. :/
17:35:40Unhelpfulthose need new APIs or extensions... but anyway that effort is stalled while i work on my audiomangler project for a bit
17:38:18polemonFMS is still puzzling me, but I need food
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17:42:46polemonare the Demos written in Lua?
17:46:09[Saint]polemon: What puzzles you about the .fms, in particular?
17:46:22*[Saint] is somewhat of a theme guru </horn blowing>
17:48:59God_Eateronly 1 man in 1000 can do that
17:49:14polemonwell, as I have mentioned before, I have an iPod nano 2g
17:49:37polemonnow, there are Themes with .fms for those iPods, so were there ever iPod nanos with FM tuners?
17:49:50[Saint]Its additional hardwear.
17:50:01Tornethe ipod radio remote works on all ipods with dock connectors
17:50:04Torneat least in Rockbox.
17:50:10*[Saint] nods
17:50:11Torneat least in theory :)
17:50:12polemon> Hardwear
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17:53:12polemonhmm, can't finde such a device for 2g nanos..
17:53:57polemonThere's a buttload of them for the later generations
17:54:20[Saint]it'll work on the Nano2G also
17:54:21Tornewe only support the apple radio remote
17:54:43[Saint]Torne: Or good copies ;)
17:54:54Torneit will work on any ipod that has a dock connector to plug it into, and on which we support the accessory protocol
17:54:56[Saint]I have one "no-name" that works.
17:55:04Tornei think the accessory protocol works on the nano2g
17:55:18Tornewhether it works in apple's firmware is a different matter :)
17:55:38polemonhmm, this thing is cheap as poo
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17:56:09polemon4 Euros including shipping
17:57:26Tornethat sounds unlikely to be the right thing
17:57:49polemonwho cares, as long as it does the job...
17:57:53Tornegoogle suggests the radio remote costs ten times that much
17:57:56TorneEr, but it probably *won't*
17:58:17n1sthere are the weird separate-fm-radio-thatt-just-uses-the-ipod-for-battery things
17:58:31Tornen1s: true. they don't require an fms, though :)
17:58:31polemoneven if it doesn't 4 euros isn't a fortune
17:59:06n1sTorne: true, and i'd expect something like that for 4€
17:59:16polemonit's supposed to be controllable with iPod
17:59:27n1sthen it might work
18:00:25polemonbut it's analogue radio only
18:00:58Torneyes, they all are, i expect
18:00:59polemonand they will shut down analogue radio in the next few years, here...
18:01:09[Saint]Its probably on of those FM sender things.
18:01:18[Saint]those are like $1 here
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18:01:25n1somgwtflol, the slimdevices guy responded and attached the patch he used for tremor to skip the comment packet
18:01:25[Saint]*one of
18:01:31Tornepolemon: if you link to the thing you are looking at we can probably identify it ;)
18:01:51[Saint]n1s: Nice?
18:01:53Tornei have never seen an ipod DAB receiver
18:01:56polemon <−−- German eBay
18:02:29[Saint]looks promising.
18:02:31TorneOh, when you say 4 euro you mean "irrelevant starting bid on ebay"
18:02:46Torneanyway yes, that is teh actual apple radio remote and should work on rockbox, as long as IAP works on the nano2g these days
18:03:08TorneI would be very surprised if the closing price is not significantly higher, though, it has over a day to go and that thing new costs ten times that much
18:03:12[Saint]I can't remember if it does. And all my Nano2Gs are in the car.
18:03:18[Saint]And its cold outside...
18:03:21bertrikit doesn't
18:03:33[Saint]Ah, there you go. No point, polemon.
18:03:55TorneYeah, i just looked, it's not enabled
18:03:58Tornepresumably we don't have a serial driver
18:04:15[Saint]Before you say anythign about "well why do these themes have an .fms then?"...they are also themes for the Nano1G, which *does* support it.
18:04:40[Saint]themes are sorted by screen resolution, not be device.
18:04:42bertrikThere's a patch for iap/serial on the nano 2g, but I don't think anybody tried it yet. Also we might need some other magic thing to make serial work.
18:05:04[Saint]TheSeven looked into it once, I believe.
18:05:19[Saint]I seem to remember him saying it'd be semi-trivial to get it working.
18:06:16Torneserial is not too hard, and then IAP should just work
18:06:18bertrikTorne, [Saint] :
18:06:30bertrikand I don't think TheSeven looked into it
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18:07:18[Saint]He certainly has...but, not into this patch specifically.
18:07:34[Saint]What I remember from the discussion was before this patch was created.
18:07:47bertrikthat was just idle talk, AFAIK
18:07:54polemonok, this solved the issue with the fms, I won't bother making one, then
18:08:20[Saint]Nano1G owners will be pissed ;)
18:08:33polemonerm, can RockBox access the internal speaker of iPod nanos?
18:08:52[Saint]No. Not without a patch.
18:08:58polemonI might make one eventually
18:09:15polemonwould be nice to make the iPod play music all by itself
18:09:24polemoneven though it'd sound like crap
18:09:57[Saint]A piezo playing music...just no.
18:10:10[Saint]keyclicks and beeps, yes.
18:10:14[Saint]Music, no.
18:13:03 Quit [Saint] (Quit: bedtime - theme hacking tomorrow.)
18:14:28TheSevenwell, you have a hardware pwm for the piezo, so you *might* actually be able to play PCM audio on it
18:14:35 Quit liar (Quit: hallowed are the ori!)
18:14:36TheSevenit would of course sound pretty much crappy
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18:48:40n1s[Saint_AndChat]: yes, nice. If it works out it should make rb able to play vorbis files with embedded album art
18:49:07n1sit is against slimdevices' heavily patched up tremor from the "low-mem" branch though
18:49:16n1sso needs a bit of adjustment
18:49:42[Saint_AndChat]We should in fact print a splash questioning the users sanity qhen aa is embedded in vorbis ;)
18:50:46[Saint_AndChat]But, that is good. Its nice to be able to handle these cases.
18:50:49n1swell, it will help when othe metadata is too big, it doesn't really matter if that is aa or not
18:51:31[Saint_AndChat]I've found many vorbis files with massive aa.
18:52:05[Saint_AndChat]Its a sin in any audio.
18:52:59*[Saint_AndChat] has never seen the need for multiple copies of the same image to be in his audio.
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18:54:46[Saint_AndChat]I once "acquired" an album that had the cover, the CD label, and a scan of the booklet insert embedded in each file. Stripping the tags reduced the size by ~400MB
18:56:49gevaerts[Saint_AndChat]: so how does your alternating sublines solution work if I *don't* have a fixed string, but e.g. %Lt?
18:57:23[Saint_AndChat]'ll fail miserably.
18:57:48[Saint_AndChat]I thought you only wanted to scroll "Rockbox" in this way.
18:58:13[Saint_AndChat]Sorry, I must have misread.
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18:59:11gevaertsThe "rockbox" I mentioned was an example to show what I meant by "rotating". My sbs had %Lt all along
18:59:35[Saint_AndChat]Oh. Right, apologies.
19:00:15gevaertsI'm still interested in a way of doing this with the current tags if you manage to think of any :)
19:00:23[Saint_AndChat]I can only think of how to do it with a fixed string.
19:01:05[Saint_AndChat]Ill see if I can come up with something though, you never know.
19:01:27saratogan1s: what is this for tremor?
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19:21:28saratogaany arm asm people around?
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19:28:08*jhMikeS never met someone consisting of arm asm
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20:13:36CIA-14New commit by fredwbauer (r30606): glyph_bytes() should pad to an even number
20:14:13 Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Remote host closed the connection)
20:15:56CIA-14r30606 build result: All green
20:25:05 Join y4n [0] (y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx)
20:30:17bertrikfreddyb, does that fix some recent bug?
20:33:33freddybNothing major, but you would not get room for the requested number of glyphs if glyph_bytes() was odd. It was there for a while...
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20:53:06freddybIs there no interest in FS #12293? If someone can live with just 250 glyphs, it saves 48,000 bytes on CabbieV2 (ipod) and 86,000 bytes on iLike...
20:53:08fs-bluebot Global default glyph size setting for gui/skins (patches, new)
20:54:35 Quit Farthen (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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20:55:53 Nick me is now known as Guest24202 (
20:56:16*bertrik thinks about making a 96x96 cabbiev2
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20:59:49bertrikWhat would be a good way of doing this? perhaps take the 128x128 theme and scale that down?
21:00:04 Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.)
21:01:32saratogai would just truncate them and then let someone else fix the images once theres a working port :)
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21:13:45saratogadoes "ldmpc" in rockbox evaluate to "ldmia!{...}; bx lr" ?
21:16:56pamaurydepends on the arm version ?
21:20:25 Quit mortalis (Quit: CGI:IRC)
21:21:00saratogayeah i guess if i'm doing armv5 code i can just use "ldmia sp!, {r4-r11, pc}"
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22:00:28CIA-14New commit by bluebrother (r30607): Replace bootloader object rules with suffix rules.
22:02:04CIA-14r30607 build result: All green
22:05:18*Zagor does the 94 second build dance
22:08:00 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
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22:14:12TorneWe've moved Gerrit to and it's all working
22:14:15TorneThanks very much to Zagor
22:15:01TorneWell, that's only step 1
22:15:13Tornewe still need to set up automatic mirroring, migrate all the build infrastructure, etc :)
22:15:22Tornebut it's now on our machine instead of the random vps it was on
22:15:27*Lalufu is bisecting an mini 2g crash
22:15:30Torneso, progress :)
22:18:53 Quit y4n (Quit: PANTS OFF!)
22:21:49Viperfangso, discontinuing the svn?
22:23:08ZagorViperfang: yes, eventually
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22:36:16LalufuJdGordon: I'm afraid 30589 broke something in my ipod mini 2g.
22:36:48Lalufustart playing a song, insert USB, wait for the disk to mount, pull usb. instant Data abort.
22:37:22Lalufuis there a way to get a coredump out of the thing?
22:37:36 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:41:00gevaertsLalufu: the first address is the place in the code it crashes at, which you can then use to find the code using the elf file and objdump. In this case I'll bet it's in font_get()
22:42:03Lalufulet's see...
22:42:43Lalufuhm. starting a song _after_ pulling USB seems to be unhealthy as well.
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22:44:27Lalufufont_unload() it is.
22:46:24 Quit factor (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
22:47:57LalufuJdGordon: FS #12295
22:47:57fs-bluebot Commit 30589 causes repeatable iPod Mini 2G crash (bugs, unconfirmed)
22:51:25CIA-14New commit by bluebrother (r30608): Prevent unnecessary rebuilding of libs. ...
22:52:51*Torne looks at the svn properties and gags slightly
22:53:09Torneso, for various files we have svn:keywords set to various keywords
22:53:09pixelmabertrik: if nothing has changed then the 128x128 port is one of the worst already, not sure if it's a good idea to depend on that ;)
22:53:12CIA-14r30608 build result: All green
22:53:27Torneincluding "Data" "native" and "Larent Gautier 12/01/09 R23800"
22:53:39bluebrotherwe do?
22:54:12*Torne is intending to solve this via the cunning "throw away all keywords" mechanism
22:54:21bertrikpixelma, ok, I guess I'm taking too many steps ahead with the sansa clip zip anyway ...
22:54:55bluebrother"throw away" as in simply remove them or as in remove all the lines from the sources as well?
22:55:20Torneremove the lines from the sources as well
22:55:44bluebrothergood idea. I was considering to do that for Rockbox Utility a while ago as well :)
22:58:26bluebrotheranyway, looks like I can now finish voice string corrections for Rockbox Utility
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23:22:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:28:07CIA-14New commit by bluebrother (r30609): Rockbox Utility TTS: implement reading TTS vendor. ...
23:29:59CIA-14r30609 build result: All green
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