| 00:00:28 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 00:03:38 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
| 00:07:13 | bertrik | ah, the nano2g doesn't even support radio yet, because IAP does not work on that target yet |
| 00:07:55 | | Join Thra11_ [0] (~thrall@42.5.113.87.dyn.plus.net) |
| 00:08:16 | | Join T44 [0] (~Topy44@f049103045.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:08:55 | wodz | bertrik: do serial work on nano2g? |
| 00:09:31 | bertrik | wodz, I made a patch for IAP over UART0 for the nano2g, but I have no idea if it actually works (probably doesn't) |
| 00:10:15 | bertrik | I remember someone working on serial output for the nano2g recently, was it Lalufu perhaps? |
| 00:10:27 | | Quit Thra11 (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 00:11:07 | pixelma | aha, looks like the "buttons locked" splash is actually handled by the button action system |
| 00:11:10 | wodz | probably |
| 00:11:58 | | Quit Topy44 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 00:13:52 | wodz | polemon: ok if you want to compile nano2g sim with FM screen you need hack a bit firmware/config/ipodnano2g.h file 1) uncoment CONFIG_TUNER line 2) add SRC_CAP_FMRADIO to INPUT_SRC_CAPS |
| 00:14:01 | wodz | just checked this |
| 00:14:20 | pixelma | does a 1st gen Nano sim show the radio screen? |
| 00:14:47 | wodz | it should |
| 00:15:31 | pixelma | then that's enough for theme making - both have the same screen size and bit depth which is the only thing that counts |
| 00:16:42 | pixelma | I believe that's what polemon wanted as the question was about viewing FMSs |
| 00:16:51 | wodz | I recall someone stated today that there is no other target with screen dimentions as nano2g |
| 00:17:26 | pixelma | I said there were no others like the Nanos |
| 00:17:39 | wodz | ah, I misunderstood than |
| 00:19:03 | | Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 00:22:48 | saratoga | whats the max clock on the Fuze+? |
| 00:23:17 | JdGordon | freddyb: whyd you close the glyphcache patch? |
| 00:23:27 | JdGordon | your one which rejigs the load size |
| 00:24:25 | | Quit bertrik (Quit: And That, My Liege, Is How We Know the Earth to Be Banana Shaped) |
| 00:29:03 | * | JdGordon does like this idea boaut The Fund buying him a sports car though |
| 00:40:10 | freddyb | (You mean allocate by glyphs.) I thought it was a good idea but i'm not going to bat for it. |
| 00:40:40 | | Join krey_ [0] (~krey@stu171.sjc.ox.ac.uk) |
| 00:41:01 | krey_ | hello, I can't remount my ipod since I installed dropbox |
| 00:41:51 | krey_ | ^rockbox |
| 00:43:30 | saratoga | probably worth mentioning what ipod you have |
| 00:49:51 | krey_ | video (5g) |
| 00:49:57 | krey_ | the block device doesn't exist |
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| 01:00 |
| 01:03:41 | | Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@149.254.182.244) |
| 01:04:48 | JdGordon | freddyb: i dont tihnk anyone else had any thoughts on it at all.. |
| 01:04:59 | JdGordon | and actually tihnking about it i tinhk its a good idea |
| 01:09:54 | | Join ReimuHakurei [0] (~reimu@adsl-75-16-233-161.dsl.kntpin.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:10:14 | freddyb | If there's no resistance I might reopen it but part of the reason I did it was to not starve international users of glyphs and the only likely way to get this in is if reducing memory usage is the only possibility. |
| 01:14:33 | JdGordon | 99% of users wont realise there is a difference |
| 01:18:53 | | Quit Thra11_ (Quit: kthxbai) |
| 01:27:10 | | Quit KiwiCam (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 01:28:34 | pixelma | krey_: which computer OS? |
| 01:28:48 | krey_ | pixelma: linux |
| 01:30:10 | | Quit robin0800 (Read error: Connection timed out) |
| 01:30:49 | pixelma | hmm, I just knew that some versions of MacOS had trouble with our USB HID mode so turning that off would have been a suggestion but I believe there's no such known problem under linux. Still worth a try maybe but other than that I need to pass |
| 01:32:18 | pixelma | you should always be able to use the Apple firmware for USB (manually started or so) but Rockbox USB should work on the Video |
| 01:32:23 | | Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@rouxbicon.rh.uchicago.edu) |
| 01:34:16 | krey_ | pixelma: even if I reboot into disk mode, nothing happens. is this normal? |
| 01:35:42 | | Quit RansomTime (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 01:36:43 | | Join RansomTime [0] (~RT@wikia/vstf/Randomtime) |
| 01:41:20 | | Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@149.254.186.244) |
| 01:43:10 | | Join bobby2hat [0] (bobby2hat@host109-148-188-88.range109-148.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:44:45 | bobby2hat | hello all, why have I got a write error on a (v. old!) 3g ipod classic when installing the bootloader with utility or ipodpatcher when run as administrator, windows 7, in disk mode... |
| 01:45:26 | | Quit AlexP (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 01:46:24 | JdGordon | maybe the disk is dead |
| 01:47:46 | | Quit krey_ (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 01:49:08 | bobby2hat | tried moving 200mb mp3 it worked, checked disk for errors... |
| 01:49:14 | bobby2hat | ok |
| 01:49:54 | bobby2hat | would anything restrict access? |
| 01:52:51 | | Quit RansomTime (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 01:54:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:56:42 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:01:44 | | Join chelz [0] (~iridesenc@unaffiliated/chelz) |
| 02:02:32 | chelz | is there an article/guide/etc on the differences/similarities between Rockbox and the iPod 5G / 5.5G / 6G native firmware? |
| 02:05:09 | | Quit hilbert (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) |
| 02:05:48 | saratoga | chelz: if you just mean an overview of rockbox features and the apple firmware features, try wikipedia |
| 02:08:09 | chelz | saratoga: well i'm trying to decide if i should get an iPod 5G / 5.5G that's only 80GB that can dualboot or iPod 6G that's 160GB but can only run rockbox. so i'm curious what, if anything, rockbox lacks that might be worth only 80GB |
| 02:08:43 | | Join RiotGear [0] (~RioTgEar@206.192.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) |
| 02:09:38 | saratoga | chelz: the 6G port isn't in particularly good shape at the moment, so thats something to consider |
| 02:14:45 | | Quit bobby2hat () |
| 02:20:01 | | Quit fatline (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 02:33:09 | [Saint_AndChat] | Dammit...who highlighted me? |
| 02:33:25 | [Saint_AndChat] | My scrollback doesn't go that far. |
| 02:34:21 | [Saint_AndChat] | Bah...just dismissed the notification without reading it. |
| 02:34:30 | krazykit | [Saint_AndChat], so why not look in the logs for your nick ;) |
| 02:35:00 | [Saint_AndChat] | Because its painful on a phone :) |
| 02:36:58 | | Quit soap (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 02:37:35 | JdGordon | the logviewer is fine on the phone |
| 02:37:37 | | Quit [Saint_AndChat] (Quit: AndChat - Android IRC Client - http://www.andchat.net/) |
| 02:37:56 | | Join [Saint_AndChat] [0] (~Saint]@101.98.129.152) |
| 02:42:32 | | Quit tjb0607 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 02:44:10 | | Quit ReimuHakurei (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 02:45:01 | [Saint_AndChat] | Well...that was boring :) |
| 02:45:39 | [Saint_AndChat] | alexbobp: weird your build hated my theme. |
| 02:45:55 | | Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 02:46:05 | [Saint_AndChat] | You don't have resources on sdcard running f, do you? It hates that. |
| 02:46:23 | [Saint_AndChat] | It'll copy over the. wps |
| 02:47:02 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng418.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:00:39 | | Quit freddyb (Quit: Leaving) |
| 03:00:40 | | Quit soap (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 03:00:52 | | Nick soap__ is now known as soap (~soap@94.75.232.194) |
| 03:01:11 | | Quit soap (Changing host) |
| 03:01:11 | | Join soap [0] (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap) |
| 03:03:10 | | Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
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| 03:18:16 | | Join ChickeNES [0] (~ChickeNES@rouxbicon.rh.uchicago.edu) |
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| 03:26:27 | | Quit ChickeNES (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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| 03:26:56 | | Join Keripo [0] (~Keripo@eng418.wireless-resnet.upenn.edu) |
| 03:30:26 | polemon | which fonts get installed when installing minimal installation, or without the extra font pack |
| 03:30:31 | polemon | ? |
| 03:31:15 | [Saint_AndChat] | Only whatever your cabbie port uses, and sysfont. |
| 03:31:19 | JdGordon | only the one(s) needed by the default theme |
| 03:32:21 | polemon | and which are those? |
| 03:32:49 | polemon | I installed the font pack, now I have many, but I'd like to minimize the space .rockbox takes up |
| 03:33:18 | [Saint_AndChat] | Look at cabbiev2 cfg |
| 03:33:25 | [Saint_AndChat] | It'll tell you. |
| 03:33:41 | polemon | ok, I'll check |
| 03:33:44 | JdGordon | it actually may not :) |
| 03:33:57 | JdGordon | polemon: whats the point? save 10mb or less? |
| 03:34:02 | [Saint_AndChat] | .....buh? |
| 03:34:13 | [Saint_AndChat] | It may not? |
| 03:34:15 | chkktri_ | btw, why not to ad some ani-aliased fonts? |
| 03:34:39 | [Saint_AndChat] | Feel free to submit some. |
| 03:35:00 | chkktri_ | hmm i could |
| 03:35:01 | [Saint_AndChat] | Ones with acceptable licenses, obviously. |
| 03:35:13 | chkktri_ | but they're propiretary |
| 03:35:18 | chkktri_ | though |
| 03:35:27 | [Saint_AndChat] | Then, no, we can't use them. |
| 03:35:28 | chkktri_ | gejavu fonts should be fine |
| 03:35:36 | chkktri_ | DejaVu* |
| 03:36:17 | [Saint_AndChat] | I supplied a font pack ages ago...its not a lack of fonts, its a lack of....effort. |
| 03:37:08 | chkktri_ | you mean bdf fonts? |
| 03:37:21 | [Saint_AndChat] | One sec, ill drop a new link here from my dropbox, huge aa font pack. |
| 03:38:22 | [Saint_AndChat] | http://db.tt/rEG2cAjL |
| 03:38:39 | | Join Jak_o_Shadows [0] (~hayden@CPE-144-136-211-121.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 03:38:55 | [Saint_AndChat] | Lots of sizes, bold, regular, light, acceptable license. |
| 03:38:58 | polemon | JdGordon: just so I know what font's I should use in my themes |
| 03:39:19 | polemon | anyway, I'm looking at cabbiev2, but there's just one font in the .cfg |
| 03:39:37 | [Saint_AndChat] | polemon: how many did you expect? |
| 03:39:46 | [Saint_AndChat] | Cabbie only uses one font. |
| 03:40:11 | [Saint_AndChat] | But, that font differs between targets. |
| 03:40:17 | polemon | yeah, but that wasn't what I was looking for |
| 03:40:41 | polemon | what font's are always installed, no matter if it is minimal installation, or something else. |
| 03:40:47 | polemon | which fonts are those? |
| 03:41:02 | [Saint_AndChat] | It differs between targets. |
| 03:41:10 | [Saint_AndChat] | You can't do it that way. |
| 03:41:41 | polemon | Well, the theme I made, is just for the iPod nano |
| 03:41:47 | [Saint_AndChat] | The only way is to state that the user must download the font pack and use it in order to use your theme. |
| 03:42:05 | [Saint_AndChat] | That way your not limited to using a specific font. |
| 03:42:18 | polemon | so there is not a single font, that is consistent on all installs? |
| 03:42:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | No. |
| 03:42:56 | [Saint_AndChat] | Well, there is...but its 8px high, and ugly as hell :) |
| 03:43:18 | [Saint_AndChat] | Its only a fallback, though. |
| 03:43:23 | polemon | there's this helv*.fnt fonts, they seem to be like a fallback or something |
| 03:43:37 | polemon | helvR*.fnt, even |
| 03:43:39 | JdGordon | even then, sysfont doesnt have many glyphs |
| 03:43:44 | [Saint_AndChat] | No, they're not. That's what cabbie uses. |
| 03:43:52 | polemon | really? |
| 03:43:57 | [Saint_AndChat] | Yes. |
| 03:44:03 | [Saint_AndChat] | Really really. |
| 03:44:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | The size used, however, differs between target. |
| 03:44:52 | [Saint_AndChat] | There's no one font present on all targets other than sysfont. |
| 03:45:41 | [Saint_AndChat] | Use whatever font you want from the font pack, and state in the theme description that the font pack MUST be used. |
| 03:46:02 | [Saint_AndChat] | You can't account for all cases. Its not possible. |
| 03:46:13 | polemon | well, then pretty much every theme needs the font pack... |
| 03:46:31 | [Saint_AndChat] | Yes. Correct. |
| 03:47:52 | [Saint_AndChat] | You can't include any font that's in the font pack in your theme, it'll wont be uploaded. I guess you discovered that. |
| 03:48:44 | [Saint_AndChat] | I did mention this some days ago... |
| 03:54:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:56:34 | | Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 03:59:44 | | Join Jak_o_Shadows1 [0] (~hayden@CPE-144-136-211-121.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 04:00 |
| 04:02:29 | | Quit Jak_o_Shadows (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 04:03:11 | | Quit [7] (Disconnected by services) |
| 04:03:20 | | Join TheSeven [0] (~TheSeven@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) |
| 04:07:03 | | Quit FoH (Quit: ¡ooʇ ‘ǝןdoǝd ǝɹɐ sʇɐq) |
| 04:13:14 | polemon | erm, I haven't discovered that, but I wouldn't do it anyway... |
| 04:14:11 | polemon | ok, I'm gonna package the themes shortly, sadly, I can't test the .fms, so I can't include that one... |
| 04:15:13 | | Quit Galois (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 04:15:16 | [Saint_AndChat] | Ummmm...why can't you test it? |
| 04:15:24 | [Saint_AndChat] | I assure you you can. |
| 04:15:32 | polemon | because I can't select the fms display in the UI |
| 04:15:37 | polemon | UI simulator, that is |
| 04:15:55 | [Saint_AndChat] | Use the nano1g sim. |
| 04:16:12 | polemon | ? |
| 04:16:14 | polemon | oh |
| 04:16:21 | polemon | ok, I'll try |
| 04:16:37 | JdGordon | the nano1g always shows the radio? |
| 04:16:51 | [Saint_AndChat] | In the sim, yes. |
| 04:17:02 | JdGordon | the sim shuold actually be changed to have a magic key to toggle fm-present |
| 04:18:53 | polemon | yeah, that would be nice, but then again, I had to find out the hotkeys by trial and error |
| 04:19:07 | polemon | there's help file, ot text file or somethnig |
| 04:19:23 | [Saint_AndChat] | You can just click on the ui buttons. |
| 04:19:49 | [Saint_AndChat] | Pretty simple... |
| 04:20:23 | [Saint_AndChat] | It works the same as the physical device does. |
| 04:21:14 | JdGordon | we shuold actually have a IAP simulator program to talk to the sim(or real target even!) |
| 04:21:43 | [Saint_AndChat] | That'd be nice. |
| 04:25:12 | | Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 04:26:15 | polemon | ok, I've installed the Nano 1G UI sim and there's the FM radio! |
| 04:26:22 | polemon | and the recording screen |
| 04:26:49 | polemon | ok, it seems, I'm not finished with the theme afterall |
| 04:27:18 | | Join GeekShadow [0] (~antoine@254.164.21.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 04:28:21 | polemon | for the recording screen, how do I do that? |
| 04:28:38 | polemon | is there another file for it? |
| 04:29:20 | JdGordon | no |
| 04:29:35 | JdGordon | the recording screen cant really be skinned... |
| 04:29:38 | polemon | it just uses the .wps? |
| 04:29:40 | polemon | ah |
| 04:29:47 | JdGordon | you can do it in the sbs if you're really adventurous though |
| 04:29:51 | | Quit pixelma (Disconnected by services) |
| 04:29:53 | | Join pixelma_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 04:29:55 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (quassel@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 04:30:08 | JdGordon | that was on my todo list, and probably wont happen for quite a while now |
| 04:30:18 | * | JdGordon has no interest in recording |
| 04:30:53 | polemon | yewell, there's other things that can't be skinned, seemingly |
| 04:30:59 | polemon | VU level meters, for instance |
| 04:31:16 | polemon | those that appear when the skin is not working, or when there is none at all.. |
| 04:31:31 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 04:31:31 | | Quit amiconn (Disconnected by services) |
| 04:31:37 | [Saint_AndChat] | %?cs and the .sbs == a full recording screen skin. |
| 04:31:38 | JdGordon | vu meters (called the peak meters) *can* be skinned |
| 04:31:49 | JdGordon | no [Saint_AndChat] |
| 04:31:50 | [Saint_AndChat] | Beat me to it JdGordon :) |
| 04:31:53 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (quassel@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 04:32:17 | polemon | yeah, but in the docs, I couldn't find the tags for it... |
| 04:32:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | JdGordon: no? |
| 04:32:39 | [Saint_AndChat] | polemon: looking in the wrong place, probably. |
| 04:32:46 | polemon | CustomWPS |
| 04:32:51 | JdGordon | polemon: %pL and %pR will let you display a bar for the left and right channels |
| 04:33:02 | | Quit fiesh (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 04:33:14 | JdGordon | [Saint_AndChat]: no, the rec screen does... err.. actually... |
| 04:33:21 | [Saint_AndChat] | polemon: search for "bar tags" |
| 04:34:12 | JdGordon | yeah, the rec screen hardcodes all its info, the sbs wont work too well with it |
| 04:34:45 | [Saint_AndChat] | Yeah, I was a bit vague...you can skin around it :) |
| 04:34:51 | | Quit ChickeNE_ (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
| 04:34:51 | [Saint_AndChat] | And I've done so. |
| 04:35:10 | polemon | Ah! OK, I found the peak meters, must have overlooked them |
| 04:35:27 | [Saint_AndChat] | polemon: you really should use the manual, also. |
| 04:35:32 | | Join fiesh [0] (~fiesh@p4FCB7181.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:35:48 | polemon | well, all I could find, was on rockbox.org |
| 04:35:48 | [Saint_AndChat] | Only use customWPS for tags that aren't in the manual. |
| 04:35:54 | polemon | I'm reading the Wiki, basically |
| 04:36:08 | [Saint_AndChat] | The manual CLEARLY lists the skin tags. |
| 04:36:16 | [Saint_AndChat] | Its even in the index. |
| 04:36:25 | [Saint_AndChat] | You didn't look very well :) |
| 04:36:37 | JdGordon | be nice.... |
| 04:36:43 | polemon | it's quite confusing... |
| 04:36:49 | JdGordon | it certainly is |
| 04:36:50 | polemon | I mean the Wiki and page layout |
| 04:36:54 | JdGordon | the wiki is pretty shit |
| 04:37:05 | polemon | looks like a DokuWiki a bity |
| 04:37:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | Yeah, that's why I recommended the manual. Its laid out a bit better. |
| 04:37:39 | polemon | s/.$// |
| 04:37:40 | [Saint_AndChat] | There's tags misssing from it, though. |
| 04:38:24 | JdGordon | the tags don't belong in the manual, they should be in a seperate document autogened every time skin_engine/ is touched |
| 04:38:37 | JdGordon | and not in fucking TeX, something simpler |
| 04:38:44 | [Saint_AndChat] | There's less tags missing from the manual than there is tags missing from CUSTOMWPS |
| 04:38:47 | polemon | you guys should do it the Motorola way... |
| 04:39:11 | [Saint_AndChat] | Everything Motorola does is wrong by default :) |
| 04:39:28 | [Saint_AndChat] | I know, I own a Defy :p |
| 04:40:35 | JdGordon | haha snap |
| 04:44:25 | polemon | Motorola has nice documentation policies |
| 04:44:43 | polemon | you can get all documentation on paper for free |
| 04:44:54 | polemon | you don't even have to pay for shipping |
| 04:45:13 | polemon | a friend of mine ordered the full documentation of the M68k |
| 04:45:23 | polemon | over 6000 pages in total |
| 04:45:30 | [Saint_AndChat] | Make a sizable donation, and we'll talk :) |
| 04:46:19 | [Saint_AndChat] | "The Fund" would go broke /pretty/ quickly with printing and shipping. |
| 04:46:26 | polemon | you could start by making a nice LaTeX documents |
| 04:46:37 | [Saint_AndChat] | We have those. |
| 04:46:40 | JdGordon | documentation is boring... |
| 04:46:44 | [Saint_AndChat] | Its called the manual. |
| 04:46:45 | JdGordon | hence the lack of them |
| 04:47:04 | polemon | well, I'm not a big fan of doing documentation work myself... |
| 04:47:24 | [Saint_AndChat] | And LaTex != "nice" |
| 04:47:33 | [Saint_AndChat] | Its horrible to work Anthony. |
| 04:47:36 | polemon | companies usually have lower tier programmers or so called "technical writers" for those tasks |
| 04:47:42 | polemon | [Saint_AndChat]: nope |
| 04:47:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | Oh....it is. |
| 04:48:01 | JdGordon | the tech writer here isnt techy at all :) |
| 04:48:04 | polemon | I like LaTeX, I just shunned PDFlatex a year ago, or so |
| 04:48:13 | JdGordon | she struggles with the command line even :) |
| 04:48:30 | polemon | omg, EVERY single technical writer I've known in the companies I' |
| 04:48:39 | polemon | ve worked for, were female |
| 04:48:46 | JdGordon | polemon: like I said, if you want to help here it would be hugely useful to nuke CustomWPS and the manual and start a new seperate document |
| 04:49:00 | polemon | bad timing |
| 04:49:07 | [Saint_AndChat] | polemon: perhaps you just volunteered to maintain our manual :) |
| 04:49:15 | polemon | I'll be working on my masters thesis coming two semesters... |
| 04:49:25 | [Saint_AndChat] | Since you like latex so much .... |
| 04:49:29 | [Saint_AndChat] | Hehe.. |
| 04:49:44 | polemon | I do like it, and I have to use it even more in the upcomping months and years |
| 04:49:56 | [Saint_AndChat] | Poor boy. |
| 04:50:15 | [Saint_AndChat] | Another soul twisted by the horrors of latex :) |
| 04:50:16 | polemon | I wasn't a big fan of LaTeX until I discovered XeLaTeX |
| 04:50:44 | polemon | XeTeX is certainly easier to use and let's you produce nicer documents |
| 04:52:00 | fiesh | in what sense nicer? |
| 04:52:08 | polemon | for instance, you have OTF support |
| 04:52:24 | JdGordon | going very offtopic now |
| 04:52:29 | polemon | you're not bound to those shitty Computer Modern fonts, etc, you can easily swap them |
| 04:52:29 | fiesh | I don't see how that makes it nicer ;) |
| 04:52:41 | fiesh | you're not bound to them in latex either |
| 04:52:46 | polemon | well, I have no problem shutting up just now... |
| 04:52:46 | fiesh | \usepackage{txfonts} e.g. |
| 04:52:49 | fiesh | oh yes |
| 04:52:52 | polemon | fiesh: poop |
| 04:52:56 | JdGordon | stop the TeX talk... |
| 04:53:05 | JdGordon | move to #rockbox-community |
| 04:53:23 | [Saint_AndChat] | But yeah, JdGordon is right. It'd be a huge benefit to nuke customWPS and the manual and have one port of call for all such docs. If you know latex, and Luke it, ans are good with it...I almost guarantee it'll still need fixing when your semesters of study are up :) |
| 04:53:26 | fiesh | couple days ago I asked about the Bauer stereophonic binaural DSP but didn't get any answer |
| 04:53:44 | fiesh | has anyone ever considered implementing it? I'm kind of tempted but alas have zero time right now, so it might take a long time until I get to it |
| 04:53:54 | [Saint_AndChat] | s/Luke/like/ |
| 04:54:22 | polemon | Well, I could take a look at it, and maybe do it on the side, since writing LaTeX documents, doesn't require too much cognitive workout |
| 04:54:35 | JdGordon | [Saint_AndChat]: I *did* even attempt to have the help doc and the tag table (for the parser) generated from the same source xml file remember.... but that didnt happen :/ |
| 04:54:56 | JdGordon | fiesh: yes |
| 04:55:17 | JdGordon | i.e sounds like at least *you* have contemplated implementing it :) |
| 04:55:28 | [Saint_AndChat] | Hehe.. |
| 04:56:07 | [Saint_AndChat] | JdGordon: yeah, I remember that. Our problem is having ...what, like 2 "doc gurus". |
| 04:56:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | I can only think of 2... |
| 04:56:30 | fiesh | JdGordon: ok, let me rephrase that to "has anybody except me ever..." ;) |
| 04:56:41 | fiesh | I was actually surprised it isn't implemented in rockbox yet |
| 04:56:49 | fiesh | would seem very natural to have a dsp for headsets |
| 04:56:49 | [Saint_AndChat] | Likely no. |
| 04:57:06 | JdGordon | there are apparently 4 people online at the moment, so its hardly a sensible question... |
| 04:57:22 | * | JdGordon is being a bit of an ass :) |
| 04:57:34 | JdGordon | you sure you cant do the same affect with the current dsp? |
| 04:57:42 | fiesh | well it could be they have been part of a discussion etc., so it's not just 4 people |
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| 04:58:07 | fiesh | pretty sure, http://bs2b.sourceforge.net/ |
| 04:58:28 | [Saint_AndChat] | fiesh: if there's nothing on flyspray, then it was *only* discussion, and therefore not relevant. :) |
| 04:58:54 | [Saint_AndChat] | Discussion, and implementation ans motivation are very different things. |
| 04:58:56 | fiesh | ok, thanks |
| 04:59:59 | [Saint_AndChat] | Things are often discussed, but that's no indication anyone intended doing anything about it. |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:52 | [Saint_AndChat] | Seems a nice idea, but it should be possible already with custom configs and our existing settings. |
| 05:01:34 | fiesh | it should? |
| 05:01:36 | fiesh | hmm |
| 05:01:44 | [Saint_AndChat] | It should, yes. |
| 05:02:04 | fiesh | how? |
| 05:02:18 | [Saint_AndChat] | Just have an "in car" configuration, a "headset" configuration, etc. |
| 05:02:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | Run when needed. |
| 05:02:38 | fiesh | yes that's what I want, but how would I get the DSP? |
| 05:03:00 | saratoga | fiesh: is that much different then the crossfeed DSPs we support? |
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| 05:04:29 | fiesh | saratoga: to my understsanding, the bs2b is more sophisticated |
| 05:04:43 | fiesh | but I haven't done any direct listening comparison, I should do that, good idea |
| 05:04:47 | saratoga | what does it do differently? |
| 05:06:37 | fiesh | hmm good question, I never looked at its details I must admit, I was always more than happy with the bs2b ;) |
| 05:07:00 | | Quit Rob2222 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 05:07:10 | alexbobp | [Saint_AndChat]: it was AlexP, who is not me :P |
| 05:07:38 | fiesh | hmm maybe I'm wrong actually and it doesn't give anything extra, thanks saratoga, I'll try some direct comparisons |
| 05:07:57 | [Saint_AndChat] | "Its different! Different is better...can haz moar differents!" :) |
| 05:08:05 | fiesh | hehe |
| 05:08:19 | [Saint_AndChat] | alexbobp: yeah, sorry...Nick complete fail. |
| 05:08:31 | alexbobp | no worries |
| 05:08:31 | saratoga | skimming that link its cites someone named "Meier" who is suspiciously similar in name to the "Meier crossfeed" on the patch tracker |
| 05:09:04 | [Saint_AndChat] | saratoga: I'd like that in svn ...I've been using it a long time. |
| 05:09:08 | [Saint_AndChat] | I like it. |
| 05:09:26 | [Saint_AndChat] | I'm not sure why it wasn't donutted. |
| 05:09:37 | [Saint_AndChat] | Lol, *committed |
| 05:10:33 | saratoga | bug bertrik, hes probably just been working on other stuff |
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| 05:32:32 | | Part chelz |
| 05:40:18 | Unhelpful | fiesh: i've honestly never noted this fatiguing effect of headphone listening with pure stereophonic sources. but, if something like bs2b is going to do what it should do to work like it ought, i would imagine it must perform an approximation of the hrtf. |
| 05:42:14 | fiesh | Unhelpful: I think the crossfeed filter really does a decent job, I gave it a couple of tries and can't complain at all, although I tested it vs. bs2b on my laptop, so the output device was not the same |
| 05:42:18 | fiesh | Unhelpful: but thanks |
| 05:42:56 | | Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 05:43:45 | Unhelpful | fiesh: well, a simple crossfeed probably does *enough*. if you want to simulate listening on speakers, though, there is a well-known method for converting "some audio" to "what this would sound like in each ear if coming from a specific point in space" |
| 05:44:14 | Unhelpful | which, if you want to really sound like two speakers, is what you would aim for |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:19:01 | CIA-14 | New commit by fredwbauer (r30714): Do not font_unload() failed fonts when aborting a skin load |
| 06:23:43 | CIA-14 | r30714 build result: 0 errors, 7 warnings (fredwbauer committed) |
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| 06:37:12 | [Saint_AndChat] | *-community made me think....does, or could, rbutil collect stats on successful installs, and if possible drop a file to count updates as well? |
| 06:37:30 | [Saint_AndChat] | (So updates aren't counted as installs) |
| 06:41:42 | [Saint_AndChat] | That would be useful, no? |
| 06:42:06 | [Saint_AndChat] | So we have even a ballpark guess of the userbase? |
| 06:42:22 | [Saint_AndChat] | Sao/do/ |
| 06:42:29 | [Saint_AndChat] | Bah! |
| 06:44:11 | | Quit fatline (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) |
| 06:44:57 | CIA-14 | New commit by Blue_Dude (r30715): Clean up compressor setting code |
| 06:47:04 | | Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 06:53:22 | CIA-14 | r30715 build result: 0 errors, 7 warnings (Blue_Dude committed) |
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| 08:00 |
| 08:22:35 | chkktri_ | uh |
| 08:22:52 | | Quit Scromple (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:23:28 | chkktri_ | looks like i'm having problems with D2 since new item in debug menu |
| 08:23:30 | | Quit Keripo (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 08:24:04 | chkktri_ | to be stright: rockbox freezes while playing, then changing track and before playing track |
| 08:24:49 | chkktri_ | some mp3 files don't play at all, just wps screen with readen tags and calculated time |
| 08:25:16 | chkktri_ | though sometimes they play but with huge (~30sec) delay |
| 08:25:42 | chkktri_ | also there's ~5-10 sec delay then changing tracks |
| 08:27:43 | | Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@115-64-195-104.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 08:28:21 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 08:34:02 | [Saint_AndChat] | There's no active maintainer for the D2, and hasn't been for some time, its also not "supported". |
| 08:34:14 | [Saint_AndChat] | I'm not surprised at all to be honest. |
| 08:34:28 | [Saint_AndChat] | Nor should anyone be :) |
| 08:35:21 | [Saint_AndChat] | You can help by bisecting which commit introduced the issues you're seeing. |
| 08:35:30 | | Join mudd1 [0] (~cmertes@ip-78-94-202-227.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 08:35:42 | [Saint_AndChat] | Since you apparently have this target. |
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| 08:46:53 | chkktri_ | well i'll try to find from where it starts once again |
| 08:47:38 | kugel | Zagor: we talked about this before |
| 08:47:50 | kugel | I think we want a dynamic tick for all targets, not only RaaA |
| 08:48:44 | Zagor | dynamic as in pause/resume, or on-demand tick lengths? |
| 08:49:14 | kugel | the latter would be nice |
| 08:50:43 | kugel | the target independent part could call a timer_reschedule() function and fix up current_tick as appropriate |
| 08:51:12 | kugel | (this way HZ needn't be dynamic) |
| 08:51:23 | | Quit Scromple (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 08:52:51 | kugel | you can relax the tick rate when no music is playing (could possibly even do it depending on the codec) and no recent ui interaction took place |
| 08:53:28 | Zagor | raaa is still special since we really go into "don't even exist" mode, which never happens on hardware targets |
| 08:53:51 | Zagor | but sure, I'd love having it everywhere |
| 08:54:42 | kugel | btw, the tick rate isn't a problem on my phone (0% cpu usage)# |
| 08:55:08 | Zagor | which phone model is that? |
| 08:55:24 | kugel | htc legend |
| 08:55:32 | Zagor | interesting |
| 08:55:43 | Zagor | I get pretty solid 2% cpu use |
| 08:55:47 | Zagor | on my nexus s |
| 08:56:51 | Zagor | btw, where did you get the march and mtune gcc flags from? they're rather strange :-) |
| 08:57:24 | kugel | that was the ndk default when I did the port |
| 08:57:35 | [Saint_AndChat] | 1% while backgrounded here on moto Defy, 2% on galaxy 5 |
| 08:57:37 | kugel | i.e. what the standard build system of the ndk used |
| 08:57:56 | Zagor | ok |
| 08:58:06 | kugel | I'm fine with tuning for armv6 even |
| 09:00 |
| 09:02:09 | kugel | Zagor: I'm not sure I like the solution to control the tick from java. I think the native code should control the java code (as per target tree), not the other way around. plus, the foreground/background switch is initiated from native, going back to native seems backward to me |
| 09:02:58 | kugel | btw, you can have underscores in native methods. the separator is _1 then (or something like this) |
| 09:03:17 | kugel | e.g. Java_org_rockbox_RockboxService_tick_1resume() |
| 09:03:38 | kugel | eventually we should get rid of the automatic linkage, and register methods explicitely |
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| 09:40:21 | Zagor | kugel: yeah you're probably right about native vs java. I was in the mindset that "app being minimized" is a java thing. |
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| 09:44:13 | kugel | Zagor: yes, that separation isn't always easy. I try to solve this kind of thinks in an interrupt-like fashion and respond to it in native (app minimized is handled in lcd-android.c btw) |
| 09:46:51 | KiwiCam | I hope this is clear enough: I have a bitmap that's 4 pixels across and three down. The top row and bottom row are black. (It's for a Sansa Clip so there are only two colours as such). The centre row is four white pixels across. Or, is it better to have just one row of black pixels four across, and duplicate them to give the impression of the block I mentioned first? What uses less memory? I'll be using a lot of this block in a them |
| 09:46:51 | KiwiCam | e that seems to be taking forever :) |
| 09:53:08 | [Saint_AndChat] | Bitmap strips use less memory than individual bitmaps to comprise the same image. |
| 09:53:22 | [Saint_AndChat] | I hope that's what you were asking. |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:05:18 | KiwiCam | So, it's better to have one long bitmap say 3 x 27 pixels, than 9 bitmaps, each 3 by 1 making 27, joined together to look the same as the long bitmap? |
| 10:21:24 | KiwiCam | Thanks. |
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| 10:31:51 | [Saint_AndChat] | KiwiCam: sorry, I was busy for a bit. Yeah, it is better to do it with a bitmap strip than it would be to use individual images. Easier to/ better code too :) |
| 10:40:43 | KiwiCam | True. Thanks again. |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:07:49 | JdGordon | has there been any more movement on the git move? |
| 11:08:22 | Zagor | not since the gerrit installation. |
| 11:08:38 | JdGordon | is http://git.rockbox.org supposed to show anything? |
| 11:08:50 | JdGordon | thats where gerrit is going to end up no? |
| 11:08:59 | Zagor | no it's at gerrit.rockbox.org |
| 11:09:13 | JdGordon | ah, okey dokey |
| 11:15:13 | | Quit God_Eater (Quit: Page closed) |
| 11:16:59 | JdGordon | Buschel: esp ping! :) |
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| 11:47:44 | kugel | Zagor: RE tick rate: What I think would work well: 3 states, a) idle tick rate 1Hz, b) music, tick rate 25Hz, c) user activity, 100Hz. on native targets c) would be defined as via backlight on, on RaaA whether an activity is open or not |
| 11:49:23 | kugel | (targets without backlight are tricky in that scheme, it's not goign to be worse for them) |
| 11:49:34 | Zagor | why have tick on at all in idle? |
| 11:50:03 | kugel | there's lots of code depending on the tick |
| 11:50:21 | | Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) |
| 11:51:06 | kugel | most importantly the thread scheduler, and various timers (e.g. idle poweroff) |
| 11:51:29 | Zagor | thread scheduler doesn't need to be running in idle |
| 11:51:35 | Zagor | idle poweroff does though |
| 11:52:18 | Zagor | unless we rather solve that with a single-shot timer |
| 11:52:44 | Zagor | my worry is that if we design for 1Hz we're going to be more lazy than if we aim for true zero-tick idle. |
| 11:52:53 | kugel | I feel turning it off entirely is a bit drastic |
| 11:53:18 | JdGordon | anyone wanna test a patch to fix glyphcache? |
| 11:53:54 | Zagor | I can't test stuff at work, I'm afraid |
| 11:54:07 | kugel | you need the tick to respond to outside events too, so that the button queue is checked |
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| 11:54:41 | Zagor | outside events should start the tick rather |
| 11:54:42 | kugel | (e.g. start playback via remote button/widget when the app is in the background) |
| 11:55:07 | JdGordon | I'm playing with a new system to save a different .glyphcache file for each font to better cache glyphs, currently i save them to /.rockbox/<fontname>.glyhpcache. shold I put it in .rockbox/fonts (they'll be hidden in rockbox anyway), or some other place/name? |
| 11:55:07 | Zagor | if those events are polled, 1Hz isn't going to cut it anyway |
| 11:55:35 | * | kugel doesn't want TIMER_AFTER/_BEFORE to be wrong too |
| 11:56:48 | kugel | JdGordon: are you back? that would be great |
| 11:56:58 | JdGordon | nope |
| 11:57:01 | Zagor | that's what I mean. if we have to do polling in idle, we're going to want to up it to 10 Hz or more and suddenly we don't have much of an idle state at all |
| 11:57:56 | kugel | I don't want to suggest polliong in idle state is good, but measuring time should still work |
| 11:58:27 | Zagor | why? |
| 11:58:49 | Zagor | change the idle timer to a one-shot firing at shutdown time |
| 11:59:01 | kugel | JdGordon: oh well, I was curious since you want our opinion |
| 11:59:32 | kugel | Zagor: timers work via tick :) |
| 11:59:53 | Zagor | kugel: we welcome everyone who contributes. long-term commitment is necessary. |
| 11:59:57 | Zagor | is *not* necessary |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:07 | Zagor | the tick timer doesn't |
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| 12:00:40 | kugel | yes, but that one drives all other timers |
| 12:01:13 | Torne | the fix for that is to not have the tick drive all other timers |
| 12:01:17 | Zagor | uh, yes. and we are talking about how we want to change that to avoid wasting power running empty timer loops. |
| 12:01:30 | Torne | you set a timer interrupt to go off when the next timer is due |
| 12:01:35 | Torne | et voila, no tick |
| 12:01:42 | Zagor | exactly |
| 12:01:52 | kugel | right, on RaaA |
| 12:01:59 | kugel | it's not that simple for native targets |
| 12:02:02 | Torne | yes it is |
| 12:02:09 | kugel | no it isn't |
| 12:02:15 | kugel | most targets have only 2 timers |
| 12:02:51 | Torne | you only need one |
| 12:03:00 | Torne | set to go off when the next timer is due. |
| 12:03:12 | kugel | yes, but's it's not simple to do |
| 12:03:21 | Torne | ..yes it is! |
| 12:03:26 | | Quit Jak_o_Shadows1 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 12:03:34 | kugel | Torne: patch here in 5min=? :) |
| 12:03:37 | Torne | <- wrote tickless kernels before |
| 12:03:45 | kugel | we would have that by now if it was that easy |
| 12:04:14 | JdGordon | you just keep a list of pending timers and scedule the next one each time the timer goes off.... not hard at all |
| 12:04:25 | kugel | it's sure doable, and it's not rocket-science, but it |
| 12:04:31 | Torne | Yeah. Interrupt goes off, pop timer off priority heap, read next delta, set interrupt again |
| 12:04:34 | kugel | it's harder to implement that what we have now |
| 12:04:34 | Torne | then execute timer |
| 12:04:36 | JdGordon | just dont queue up a million tick times at boot |
| 12:04:50 | Torne | It is more complicated than having a tick, yes |
| 12:04:56 | Torne | but it's still simple |
| 12:06:16 | kugel | the tickless kernel is only part of it, the otehr code needs to be adapted. e.g. our responsiveness to user actions depends on the tick |
| 12:06:27 | Lalufu | Would that imply new interfaces for the timeout* functions, too? |
| 12:06:30 | kugel | and threading |
| 12:07:01 | JdGordon | that would all be done transparently |
| 12:07:04 | JdGordon | *easy* |
| 12:07:13 | JdGordon | queue_wait() would fix that |
| 12:07:23 | JdGordon | (or queue_send() or whatever does the timeout) |
| 12:07:50 | * | JdGordon naivly assumed thats how our ticks were already being done! |
| 12:08:17 | kugel | you need to decide whether latency is important currently or not, and stuff |
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| 12:49:11 | Zagor | kugel: the latency does not change. we just do away with all the ticks that do nothing more than increment the timer variable. |
| 12:49:54 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 12:51:24 | wodz | Torne: am I correct that gdb-stubs exploit undefined instruction or swi on arm for single stepping? |
| 12:51:35 | Torne | no idea. |
| 12:52:04 | Torne | i have never debugged on non-emulated hardware without using an ICE |
| 12:52:16 | Torne | or with gdb, really :) |
| 12:52:40 | wodz | we don't use swi in rockbox right? |
| 12:52:47 | Torne | we don't, no |
| 12:52:50 | Torne | but we also can't sensibly |
| 12:52:58 | Torne | we run in svc mode all the time, so swi will corrupt state |
| 12:53:03 | Torne | (specifically r14) |
| 12:53:22 | Torne | we should probably run in sys mode instead :) |
| 12:53:58 | Torne | there is also, yaknow, BKPT instruction :) |
| 12:55:09 | wodz | isn't it for v5+ ? |
| 12:55:18 | Torne | which? |
| 12:55:23 | Torne | sys mode exists in V4+ |
| 12:55:44 | wodz | bkpt |
| 12:55:48 | Torne | Oh. Yeah. |
| 12:55:59 | Torne | undef works just as well |
| 12:56:13 | Torne | if you're only using a software monitor |
| 12:56:22 | Torne | i have no idea what real code actually does, thoguh |
| 12:59:59 | wodz | Would there be any side effects of running in sys mode? Change should be trivial (only crt0.S probably) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:23 | Torne | wodz: Nope. If you never use SWI it makes absolutely no difference at all, other than anywhere you actually inspect/set the mode bits (e.g. stack setup) |
| 13:00:32 | Torne | It just enables you to use swi later. |
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| 13:02:02 | JdGordon | wodz: you're trying to debug the font boot crash?. |
| 13:02:16 | Torne | wodz: the other other option for debugging is, yaknow, actual debug hardware in cp14 |
| 13:02:33 | Torne | but not everything has that :) |
| 13:02:42 | wodz | JdGordon: I don't have target affected |
| 13:02:53 | JdGordon | damn |
| 13:03:41 | Lalufu | wodz: Yes, I've done some work with the serial port on the ipod2g. |
| 13:03:42 | | Quit Jak_o_Shadows (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 13:03:42 | | Quit soap (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 13:03:47 | Lalufu | anything in particular? |
| 13:03:57 | Lalufu | make that mini2g |
| 13:04:31 | wodz | Torne: I am still thinking about extend our crash capabilities - gdb-stub should be quite easy option |
| 13:04:54 | wodz | Lalufu |
| 13:04:59 | wodz | mini or nano? |
| 13:05:05 | Lalufu | the mini |
| 13:05:10 | wodz | mini has working serial AFAIK |
| 13:05:31 | Lalufu | yes, it does. It even has two working serials, which is a bit of a problem |
| 13:05:40 | Lalufu | I suspect all the other ipods are similar |
| 13:06:01 | wodz | anyway Torne has my mini |
| 13:07:22 | | Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 13:07:51 | Lalufu | SER0 is the serial port next to the headphone jack, SER1 is the serial port in the dock connector |
| 13:09:55 | Lalufu | being able to use both (not at the same time, but either one or the other) is somewhere on my todo-list |
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| 13:14:55 | JdGordon | is there any reason GPIOD_PIN(7) = (1<<7); wont work too early in the boot sequence? |
| 13:15:15 | JdGordon | that turns the button light on, I;ve put that pretty much at the strat of init() and it isnt happening |
| 13:15:33 | JdGordon | so, is there any memory issues which could cause the binary to just cause the loader to crash?> |
| 13:15:54 | kugel | Zagor:the tickless system needs to react to changing latency demands, though |
| 13:16:16 | wodz | JdGordon: You need to configure pin direction most probably |
| 13:16:28 | Zagor | kugel: of course. it's just a more efficient way to run a timer. |
| 13:16:36 | kugel | sure |
| 13:16:50 | kugel | it needs to be implemented :) |
| 13:17:41 | JdGordon | wodz: that macro isnt enough? |
| 13:19:14 | Zagor | kugel: and, more importantly, thoroughly tested. that's why I thought adding a quick fix for raaa was a quicker solution. it's also much more important on raaa than hardware targets. |
| 13:20:11 | JdGordon | \o/ progress |
| 13:20:23 | kugel | the 3 states I proposed should be relatively simple to implement, but it's not truly tickless |
| 13:20:43 | kugel | your quick fix breaks code that depends on the tick/TIMER_AFTER/TIME_BEFORE etc |
| 13:20:59 | wodz | JdGordon: usually you need to setup pin direction first (in separate register associated with the port) and than you are free to change pin level |
| 13:20:59 | Zagor | what raaa code does that? |
| 13:21:24 | Zagor | we're idle. nothing happens or is going to happen. we can just as well just freeze time. |
| 13:21:32 | * | JdGordon got a visible data abort |
| 13:21:37 | kugel | did you double check that assumption? |
| 13:21:55 | Zagor | can you think of a case? |
| 13:22:07 | kugel | there is code that depends on this. I can't tell you all the places or if they're active in RaaA |
| 13:22:09 | Zagor | we don't do much mathematical code proofs here :) |
| 13:22:32 | kugel | we shouldn't have misbehaving macros, still |
| 13:23:21 | Zagor | I don't see how that is relevant to my fix |
| 13:23:32 | Zagor | fix/hack |
| 13:23:44 | kugel | stopping the tick makes e.g. TIME_AFTER wrong |
| 13:23:56 | Zagor | why? |
| 13:24:01 | Zagor | time has *stopped* |
| 13:24:24 | kugel | time doesn't stop |
| 13:24:36 | Zagor | I just did |
| 13:24:53 | Zagor | we don't do wall-clock in rockbox, other than in the status bar. |
| 13:25:37 | kugel | to be clear: I'm against this hack, because it's a) a hack which breaks sensible assumptions and b) it's android specific |
| 13:26:13 | Zagor | I disagree your assumptions are sensible |
| 13:26:15 | kugel | I don't think we need this kind of code in our repo |
| 13:26:58 | Zagor | uh, what kind of statement is that??? |
| 13:27:34 | kugel | the problem it tries to solve isn't bad enough to warrant such hacks IMO |
| 13:28:07 | Zagor | "the rockbox app drains battery" isn't bad enough to fix? |
| 13:28:26 | JdGordon | you're wrong, TIME_BEFORE/AFTER isnt used anywhere tick time matters |
| 13:28:30 | kugel | nobody so far reported stronger battery drain, in contrast the battery life is better since rockbox doesn't eat as much for decoding |
| 13:28:54 | Zagor | kugel: I reported it. and proved it. |
| 13:29:14 | Zagor | and whole problem is that we drain battery when the user thinks he has turned *off* the app. |
| 13:29:20 | kugel | proved by looking at the 2% cpu usage? |
| 13:29:34 | kugel | did you actually measure the battery life? |
| 13:29:42 | Zagor | what is wrong with you? |
| 13:30:03 | Zagor | the app is closed. we should not be running *at all*! |
| 13:31:01 | kugel | then we should just exit entirely |
| 13:31:21 | kugel | though, that's also not the best solution because of the large startup time |
| 13:31:32 | Zagor | exactly. we should just stop running. |
| 13:39:24 | JdGordon | ok, so not having commit access does suck... can someone quickly commit a major fuckup fix? |
| 13:39:49 | Zagor | sure, just pastebin it |
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| 13:40:42 | JdGordon | http://pastebin.com/9VkP49is |
| 13:41:13 | JdGordon | I'm not sure that will be hit but it for sure a bug :) |
| 13:44:24 | CIA-14 | New commit by zagor (r30716): Only alloc if necessary. Patch by Jonathan Gordon. |
| 13:45:33 | | Quit hilbert (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
| 13:45:47 | | Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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| 13:46:42 | JdGordon | not quite :) That stopped it crashing if someone gave a font_id which hadnt been allocated, or during searching a font id was unloaded and the font requested didnt have that glyph |
| 13:47:23 | Zagor | heh, almost :) |
| 13:47:45 | JdGordon | so yeah, unlikely to be hit but good to check for anyway |
| 13:48:04 | JdGordon | char *foo[10] would be equivilant to char foo[40] right? |
| 13:48:16 | Zagor | yes |
| 13:48:22 | JdGordon | the * was there accidentaly... hmm.. |
| 13:48:31 | Zagor | size-wise, that is |
| 13:48:43 | JdGordon | im getting a crash somewhere after show_splash, so getting somewhere at least |
| 13:48:46 | JdGordon | not ery helpful though |
| 13:50:15 | CIA-14 | r30716 build result: 0 errors, 7 warnings (zagor committed) |
| 13:50:30 | amiconn | kugel, Zagor: I don't think a tickless design (or even variable tick) would work on native targets, especially not on the older ones |
| 13:50:52 | Zagor | amiconn: due to the polling needed? |
| 13:51:06 | amiconn | The tick is our only timekeeping method, and the SoCs don't have alternative methods of timekeeping like desktop CPUs |
| 13:51:27 | Zagor | tickless timer doesn't mean we lose track of time |
| 13:51:36 | amiconn | Hmm? |
| 13:51:38 | Zagor | only that we increment different amounts each "tick" |
| 13:52:01 | amiconn | Variable timer will also be difficult and prone to drift/ losing time |
| 13:52:45 | Zagor | actually there is a case to be made that variable timer is *more* accurate since we don't do as many |
| 13:53:45 | Zagor | but as I've said I think it's more a "nice to have" thing on hardware targets. we don't sit idle for long times on them, as opposed to raaa. |
| 13:53:55 | amiconn | Atm we're using the timers in repeat mode. This is inherently reliable and quite stable. Allowed interrupt latency is up to a little less than a tick interval |
| 13:54:18 | amiconn | If you want it variable, you need single shot, and then latencies add up |
| 13:54:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:54:46 | Zagor | why would you have more latency with single shot? |
| 13:55:24 | LinusN | because the time between the irq and the setup of the new timer interval is unknown |
| 13:55:46 | amiconn | You get the interrupt, enter the isr (possibly after some delay if either a higher prio interrupt is being serviced, or interrupts were disabled), then reprogram the timer |
| 13:55:55 | kugel | in repeat mode the time spent in the handler doesn't add to the timer interval |
| 13:55:55 | Zagor | right, very true |
| 13:56:17 | amiconn | You have no means to track the time between the interrupt being triggered and actually being processed |
| 13:57:12 | kugel | I dont think that drift is a problem |
| 13:58:02 | amiconn | That depends how often you reprogram the tick |
| 13:58:18 | amiconn | If you do it every cycle, it very much is |
| 13:58:44 | amiconn | If you're running in repeat mode and only change the tick frequency every now and then, it might be okay |
| 13:58:56 | LinusN | we can minimize the drift by always using reload, and compensate for how long the timer has run when reprogramming it. then we lose only a few timer clocks |
| 13:59:03 | kugel | amiconn: that was my proposal |
| 13:59:57 | kugel | but even in one-shot, a drift of a few nanoseconds once every few (worst case being ten) milliseconds doesnt sound problematic |
| 13:59:58 | amiconn | We're already doing something similar on coldfire when boosting/ unboosting. Sinec the timer is running on core clock, we have to reprogram the prescaler in order to keep the timer frequency constant |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:26 | amiconn | But there we're using repeat mode, and we don't reset the timer itself |
| 14:01:21 | kugel | LinusN: on newer targets the timer auto-reload even |
| 14:01:33 | amiconn | LinusN: That only works reliably if you can read the timer value in an atomic operation. Not sure whether this is possible on all SoCs |
| 14:01:34 | kugel | IIUC |
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| 14:03:39 | Zagor | tickless on hw is a red herring. I only want to stop the idle cpu use on raaa. |
| 14:05:13 | amiconn | Idle poweroff? |
| 14:06:15 | Zagor | almost. but we only want to do it when the app is closed/minimised |
| 14:06:49 | Zagor | and it should be able to resume without having to reload/restart |
| 14:06:53 | kugel | idlepoweroff works as epected |
| 14:07:23 | kugel | Zagor: you think that's better than exiting entirely and restarting? |
| 14:07:35 | Zagor | what is? |
| 14:07:41 | kugel | I think exiting entirely would be best combined with faster startup time |
| 14:08:07 | Zagor | no, we must be able to resume to where the app was closed. and fast. |
| 14:08:16 | Zagor | think phone call |
| 14:08:39 | kugel | phone call works right nwo |
| 14:08:51 | Zagor | yes, but is using 2% cpu |
| 14:10:06 | Zagor | unloading the app from ram as soon as the user goes to the home screen or anohter app is just silly |
| 14:10:30 | Zagor | we should just stop running until the user brings us back (or android unloads us) |
| 14:10:52 | Zagor | why is that so strange to you? |
| 14:11:04 | kugel | it's not |
| 14:12:01 | kugel | but with really fast startup time (like 200ms) we can even unload from ram |
| 14:12:17 | Zagor | but we don't want to. there is no reason why we'd do that. |
| 14:12:32 | kugel | why wouldn't we want to do that? |
| 14:12:36 | kugel | freeing unused ram is a good thing |
| 14:12:46 | kugel | if it comes without drawback |
| 14:12:48 | Zagor | because it is a lot of unnecessary work and wait? |
| 14:13:23 | kugel | what wait? |
| 14:13:28 | Zagor | plus we don't save the state enough to come back exactly where we were in menus, database or file browser for instance |
| 14:13:41 | Zagor | you just said 200ms |
| 14:14:09 | kugel | 200ms is effectively instant |
| 14:14:30 | Zagor | and completely unnecessary |
| 14:14:37 | Zagor | will you stop this nonsense? |
| 14:14:44 | kugel | the screen transistion animation takes longer than this |
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| 14:15:47 | kugel | will do |
| 14:15:51 | LinusN | still, it's 200ms that the cpu can spend doing better things |
| 14:18:35 | Zagor | on another note, I'm unhappy about the current trend of ignoring warnings introduced in commits. we want a clean green build table, people! |
| 14:19:46 | JdGordon | disable that build client :) |
| 14:20:21 | Zagor | yeah, punish every build client that dares produce warnings. that'll tech em! ;) |
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| 14:25:22 | JdGordon | was buflib ever properly tested on low mem targets? |
| 14:25:38 | | Quit Jak_o_Shadows1 (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:26:12 | kugel | well, I tested a bit on my clipv1 |
| 14:26:33 | kugel | anyway, buflib alone didn't increase memory usage |
| 14:27:01 | kugel | i also tested on hwcodec |
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| 14:27:47 | JdGordon | ok, was allocing largeish blocks and having things moved around tested properly on low mem targets? |
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| 14:28:58 | kugel | I think there's a problem in the shrink_callback if it actually runs oom. are you hitting this? |
| 14:29:19 | kugel | but you'd need to alloc like 500k on lowmem to hit this |
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| 14:29:28 | JdGordon | i dont know what I'm hitting |
| 14:29:44 | JdGordon | for some reason im crahsing in viewportmnaager_init() during boot |
| 14:30:18 | kugel | did you try a sim configured with very low memory? |
| 14:31:58 | JdGordon | si works fine |
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| 14:42:46 | ScaV | hi, where i can see RockBox daily build's changelog? |
| 14:43:04 | wodz | ScaV: svn changelog is on the frontpage |
| 14:44:01 | ScaV | wodz: ah, sorry for stupid question.. |
| 14:44:12 | wodz | np |
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| 14:52:01 | ScaV | My iPod nano 2g hangs when I select an album from the picture flow. But if you open the album, which is now played, then everything is OK. |
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| 15:03:18 | kugel | Zagor: sorry if I was harsh or something. it's just that I would like to see a solution which is beneficial for more targets than android |
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| 15:13:05 | JdGordon | anyone done an ipod manual restore recently? |
| 15:16:06 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Why is "recently" relevant? |
| 15:16:57 | JdGordon | I guess it isnt, just figured they'd be more likely to remember the steps |
| 15:17:25 | JdGordon | the wiki instructions dont seem to be working for me |
| 15:29:01 | JdGordon | woohoo! took long enough, back in buisness |
| 15:30:19 | Llorean | So, was there something wrong with the steps? |
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| 16:28:52 | krey_ | hello, I've submitted a bug report (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12313), and I read that chances of it getting any attention are greatly increased by irc presence, so here I am, anyone interested in helping? |
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| 16:40:30 | Llorean | krey_: When you say "the problem persists in disk mode" do you mean when booting into the dedicated disk mode? |
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| 16:42:19 | CIA-14 | New commit by zagor (r30717): Changed #warning to a TODO comment. |
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| 16:44:29 | krey_ | Llorean: yes |
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| 16:47:46 | CIA-14 | r30717 build result: 0 errors, 6 warnings (zagor committed) |
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| 16:51:50 | Llorean | krey_: That's Apple code. If that's not working, it's not a Rockbox bug you're experiencing. |
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| 17:10:13 | krey_ | Llorean: but it worked before I installed rockbox. should I uninstall it and see if I can mount in disk-mode? |
| 17:11:18 | krey_ | Llorean: I think it might be connected to this issue: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/10873 |
| 17:11:23 | Llorean | krey_: You can do that, but disk mode really is something that's run outside of Rockbox. If it's not working, there's not something Rockbox can do about it. |
| 17:11:52 | Llorean | krey_: That report notes it *does* work in disk mode. |
| 17:12:37 | krey_ | Llorean: "the device does work as a HID" <−− I think this might be the problem |
| 17:13:07 | Llorean | Disk Mode doesn't involve any Rockbox code. Including the HID code, which isn't even loaded off the disk at that point. |
| 17:21:15 | krey_ | Llorean: I fixed the issue by reinstalling rockbox. thanks for you for helping |
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| 17:57:10 | othniel | On the FeatureComparison wiki page will someone add "FM Recording codec/samplerate/kbps" in Other features section −− after "Radio Recording" (should be FM Radio Recording imho) My Stock e280v2 records FM in .WAV the codec is pcm_s16le/24000 stereo/768kbps according to ffmpeg. 353,894,400 bytes per hour. Whereas my e280v1 has rockbox and can record in MP3. Or you may want to break the change out into several lines: FM re |
| 17:57:12 | othniel | cord file format, FM record codec, FM record samplerate, FM record kpbs, This would help people compute Maximum FM record time considering the DAP capacity/record velocity −− not battery life. Or your could put a line for max time also. An 8GB stock firmware e280v2 then gives 22.6 hours FM record time at 768 kbps. Not good. Rockbox FM record time at 128 kbps MP3 gives 135 hours. For lecture recording, I prefer the 8kHz s |
| 17:57:14 | othniel | ampled adpcm_ima_wav codec stereo (64 kbps), but the Sansa e280 has better battery life than the Chinese S1mp3 that records in that format. FFmpeg can be used to convert recording into SPEEX or AMR or G.729. |
| 17:57:16 | othniel | Also, who can I talk to about .m4b support in rockbox? Those containers have an AAC audio stream and PNG artwork that changes every few minutes. I can provide samples or a download link. Wouldn't think it would be much effort. |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:02:04 | othniel | I don't have write access and I suggest a footnote on "FM Radio Recording" It should say only on Iriver H3x0, Sansa e200v1/v2, Sansa c200/m, etc. I found a FAQ with that info but it is way buried. |
| 18:05:44 | othniel | Maybe MP3 Realtime Encoding and Wavpack Realtime Encoding should be moved down under FM Radio and Voice Recording? |
| 18:08:22 | | Join mortalis [0] (~4d6c62b0@www.haxx.se) |
| 18:08:24 | n1s | othniel: you can get access to change the wiki if you want |
| 18:09:12 | othniel | ok but I dont want to get fussed at for making a lot of changes. |
| 18:09:23 | othniel | I want to run them by somebody first. |
| 18:09:45 | othniel | I'll register |
| 18:10:13 | othniel | what do I do / where? |
| 18:11:44 | n1s | othniel: click the deit link on a wiki page and cancel the login prompt and then fill out the reg form, come in here and promise not to spam and someone will give you write access |
| 18:11:50 | n1s | s/deit/edit |
| 18:12:17 | othniel | Filling out Wiki main Registration now. |
| 18:14:32 | n1s | the feature comparison page has not been updated for most our targets btw |
| 18:17:23 | n1s | much of the info in the first table seems very archos centric |
| 18:17:43 | n1s | and a lot of it is outdated for even those |
| 18:18:35 | n1s | haha, we have "Corrects reported bugs" checked as "Yes" for rockbox :) |
| 18:19:24 | n1s | there's also duplication between the two tables |
| 18:20:12 | n1s | IMO the first table should go away and if anything usefull is in it that's missing from the other table it should be added in there instead |
| 18:20:12 | | Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) |
| 18:20:41 | saratoga | we should probably remove that feature comparison until someone makes a new one |
| 18:21:18 | othniel | I like the feature comparison |
| 18:21:35 | othniel | It is for folks who are wanting to get into rockbox |
| 18:21:49 | othniel | and learn what it is −− quickly |
| 18:21:51 | saratoga | yeah but its so old its basically useless :) |
| 18:22:00 | othniel | I will fix it. |
| 18:22:11 | othniel | and organize it |
| 18:22:11 | | Quit GermanMushroom (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 18:22:15 | Llorean | This is a better page to improve, I think: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyRockbox |
| 18:22:17 | n1s | saratoga: any comments on the patch i posted in FS #11856 |
| 18:22:18 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/11856 Set of ogg vorbis files will not play (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 18:22:34 | saratoga | n1s: i never figured out a good work around, so if yours works go for it |
| 18:23:07 | n1s | it's a fairly ugly hack but seems to work fine |
| 18:23:14 | saratoga | othniel: should probably split it into an archos comparison page, and a comparison page for everything else |
| 18:23:24 | saratoga | and then don't mention specific models |
| 18:23:47 | saratoga | since aside from archos, most everything else is pretty similar |
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| 18:26:49 | othniel | How long until I receive the email confirmation? |
| 18:29:10 | othniel | I am looking for a place to detail FM recording. |
| 18:29:25 | othniel | I will put some on 'WhyRockbox' |
| 18:29:59 | othniel | but the other seemed as good as any place I could find. |
| 18:30:04 | n1s | uh, the email ,ight not come there's been some trouble with that |
| 18:30:20 | othniel | I am interested not in recording music, but lectures/seminars |
| 18:30:43 | othniel | recording it in AMR, SPEEX or similar voice codecs and |
| 18:30:50 | othniel | of course playback. |
| 18:31:03 | othniel | not 320Kbps mp3 |
| 18:32:23 | othniel | The Buyers Guide is the only place that says what hardware you need to purchase to do FM recording with rockbox. |
| 18:32:28 | n1s | does anyone remember if the wiki registration works even without the mail? |
| 18:32:40 | othniel | I put my email in. |
| 18:32:47 | othniel | oh |
| 18:33:04 | n1s | yeah, but the registration confirmations never arrive |
| 18:33:44 | n1s | othniel: try now |
| 18:33:49 | n1s | to log in |
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| 18:34:40 | othniel | dont know where |
| 18:34:54 | n1s | othniel: click edit on any wiki page |
| 18:35:07 | othniel | omg |
| 18:37:09 | othniel | I'm in |
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| 18:37:25 | othniel | I'm good with HTML |
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| 19:04:23 | freddyb | How bad is it to block all font relocations while reloading the skin data? It fixes some crashes for me related to switching themes... I put a patch on FS #12298. |
| 19:04:23 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12298 no display / fatal error on Sansa Clip (bugs, new) |
| 19:04:43 | freddyb | It didn't fix the Clip problem, tho. |
| 19:05:42 | kugel | freddyb: that means the move callback is still incorrect, no? |
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| 19:08:33 | freddyb | I don't think so. I think it has more to do with some (struct font *) that's not forgotten outside of font.c but I haven't found it. I don't know much about viewports, scrolling text, etc. |
| 19:09:30 | kugel | I see |
| 19:09:48 | freddyb | Or maybe some other memory pointer is not updated and a font is moved into its area. |
| 19:10:10 | kugel | what's left using struct font*? wasn't most access just for the font height and that replaced by a wrapper function? |
| 19:10:42 | kugel | I guess I shall commit the debug alloc patch |
| 19:14:02 | freddyb | I haven't really found much that uses *pf's but what i found I locked in the patch on the FS. If I knew the skin engine better I would try delaying the repaint until the allocations are done. |
| 19:14:56 | kugel | freddyb: pretty sure it doesn't draw during allocations |
| 19:15:09 | kugel | allocs are made in the parse-phase |
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| 19:37:14 | othniel | ok I'm having problems saving my changes. |
| 19:37:24 | othniel | First set of changes worked fine |
| 19:37:40 | othniel | I tried to save up a few and do them together. |
| 19:38:03 | othniel | but preview could not render html links properly. |
| 19:38:24 | othniel | I saved and tried to make more changes −− now it rejects my attempts. |
| 19:38:42 | AlexP | Links on the wiki don't work like normal html IIRC |
| 19:39:04 | AlexP | It is something like [[Text][http://link...]] IIRC |
| 19:40:11 | Lalufu | Hm. I just noticed that rockbox does not seem to know the concept of a null pointer exception. That'll take some getting used to. |
| 19:40:28 | AlexP | Oh, other way around |
| 19:40:39 | othniel | So I have to put [] around the whole thing and alternate text inside and link inside with extra sets of [] |
| 19:40:50 | AlexP | You do [[link][text]] |
| 19:40:58 | AlexP | Have a look at the source of another page |
| 19:41:08 | AlexP | But it isn't html |
| 19:41:29 | othniel | Yeah this page is full of <a href="#footnote22" etc |
| 19:41:36 | | Quit Buschel (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]) |
| 19:42:03 | AlexP | Sorry, I didn't mean not at all |
| 19:42:08 | AlexP | but have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/System/TextFormattingRules |
| 19:43:54 | CIA-14 | New commit by kugel (r30718): Revert r30599 "Check for the magic file "/.rockbox/skin_buffer_size.txt" [...]" ... |
| 19:44:27 | othniel | /usr/bin/rcs -o%REVISION|N% %FILENAME|F% of .../Main/FeatureComparison.txt failed: |
| 19:44:31 | othniel | Go back in your browser and save your changes locally. |
| 19:46:41 | CIA-14 | r30718 build result: 0 errors, 2 warnings (kugel committed) |
| 19:47:26 | kugel | hm, my build client quite bumped in the ranking |
| 19:49:10 | othniel | Attention: Error saving topic During save of Main.FeatureComparison an error was found by the version control system. Please notify your Wiki administrator. |
| 19:49:18 | othniel | What do I do now? |
| 19:50:25 | AlexP | othniel: Try again, or wait until Zagor is around and ask him if he has any idea |
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| 19:55:24 | othniel | When you say try again. Do I just hit the back button on the browser and press save changes. or start over and hit edit make the change and press save... |
| 19:56:09 | AlexP | I don't know |
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| 19:58:42 | kugel | didnt JdGordon have a lcd_puts* overhaul patch somewhere? |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:32:21 | CIA-14 | New commit by kugel (r30719): core_alloc: Provide a tiny test allocation, which can be freed for debug purposes. ... |
| 20:32:45 | kugel | the above exposes a crash in the font code |
| 20:34:51 | CIA-14 | r30719 build result: 0 errors, 1 warnings (kugel committed) |
| 20:38:07 | kugel | in an sdl-app 320x480 build at least |
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| 20:54:54 | kugel | right. the font move callback is fine, but something else corrupts the cache |
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| 21:25:12 | othniel | Zagor I was told to talk to you about wiki updates that are not being accepted by rcs |
| 21:25:46 | Zagor | that sounds bad! |
| 21:25:56 | Zagor | what does it say? |
| 21:26:14 | othniel | I make some cnanges and try to save. |
| 21:26:43 | othniel | it works sometimes and sometimes it dont. Is it me or the system? |
| 21:27:15 | Zagor | I would like the exact error message, if possible |
| 21:27:36 | othniel | othniel: /usr/bin/rcs -o%REVISION|N% %FILENAME|F% of .../Main/FeatureComparison.txt failed: |
| 21:27:38 | othniel | othniel: |
| 21:27:40 | othniel | othniel: Go back in your browser and save your changes locally. |
| 21:27:55 | Zagor | yikes |
| 21:28:11 | othniel | And then it decides to work |
| 21:28:16 | ukleinek | Zagor: that makes me yike just because it includes the word "rcs" :-) |
| 21:28:18 | othniel | so I make some more changes a |
| 21:28:24 | othniel | yeah |
| 21:28:24 | Zagor | ukleinek: hehe |
| 21:28:35 | othniel | i thought it was svn |
| 21:28:53 | othniel | and when I save no workee |
| 21:34:53 | othniel | It just worked for me. |
| 21:35:13 | othniel | What did you do Zagor? |
| 21:35:26 | Zagor | nothing |
| 21:35:32 | Zagor | thinking about upgrading :) |
| 21:35:44 | othniel | Thanks −− next time I ask I want you to do the same thing... |
| 21:36:09 | Zagor | great. I'll keep thinking about it :) |
| 21:36:21 | othniel | Its just intermittent |
| 21:36:44 | othniel | I wonder if checkins have something locked. |
| 21:36:50 | Zagor | yeah. there's a number of odd issues with the wiki. maybe some are fixed in the later version. |
| 21:36:52 | othniel | in the WIKI |
| 21:37:18 | othniel | Like my changes in the Firmware Feature Comparison Page? |
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| 21:45:14 | | Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
| 21:46:19 | AlexP | othniel: Has it told you that you are suspicious yet? |
| 21:46:35 | othniel | Oh yeah |
| 21:46:51 | othniel | I dont think I am. |
| 21:47:01 | AlexP | No, it tends to tell everyone they are :) |
| 21:47:15 | othniel | I thought it was funny.... |
| 21:47:27 | AlexP | Of course it is probably right in many cases, although for the wrong reasons |
| 21:47:35 | othniel | Do YOU like my changes? |
| 21:47:45 | othniel | Its a bot |
| 21:47:52 | othniel | what do they know? |
| 21:49:10 | othniel | I just keep trying out new changes in the preview until the commit takes. |
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| 21:57:35 | Zagor | don't we support m4b files? I thought that was just m4a flagged "resume enable"? |
| 21:57:57 | Llorean | Zagor: Some of them have chapters, we don't support the chapters. |
| 21:58:20 | othniel | The m4b files I have contain artwork |
| 21:58:45 | othniel | They are aac audio with png graphics which changes every 5 minutes |
| 21:58:50 | othniel | or so |
| 21:59:12 | othniel | Yes they are bookmarkable but when rockbox hits the png in the data stream |
| 21:59:40 | othniel | it doesnt throw it away or display it −− it aborts playback and goes to the next track. |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:20 | othniel | Usually the artwork is early in the podcast/magazine |
| 22:00:27 | othniel | so no listen |
| 22:01:10 | Llorean | Rockbox is rather picky with the AAC files it supports. They need to be optimized for streaming (which involves moving all the metadata to the front). It sounds like those aren't. |
| 22:01:31 | | Quit Llorean (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 22:01:40 | othniel | Ok so I still have a use for my Ipod classic. |
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| 22:02:52 | othniel | yeah my m4b have chapters to separate the articles in the magazine. |
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| 22:03:15 | | Quit hilbert (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) |
| 22:05:02 | Zagor | wohoo, ftp.gnu.org added the symlink |
| 22:05:49 | Zagor | now rockboxdev.sh works again |
| 22:06:01 | Llorean | Good news! |
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| 22:06:51 | othniel | I guess you were commenting on my flagging of no .m4b support in the FeatureComparison −− changed to "No chapter support" |
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| 22:08:28 | Zagor | yes |
| 22:08:48 | othniel | no PNG support either Right? |
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| 22:10:05 | Zagor | no support for anything in the middle of the files |
| 22:11:04 | Llorean | Rockbox only supports BMP and JPEG album art, and only JPEG as embedded art. |
| 22:11:13 | Llorean | That's covered in the manual. |
| 22:11:57 | othniel | Would the mp4player handle it? |
| 22:12:15 | Llorean | I don't even know what you mean by "the mp4player" |
| 22:12:29 | othniel | Its a plugin for some targets |
| 22:13:27 | othniel | See rockbox extras |
| 22:14:10 | Llorean | I don't see anything called "mp4player" on the extras page. |
| 22:14:10 | | Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 22:14:26 | Llorean | Do you mean mpeg player? |
| 22:14:32 | othniel | yep |
| 22:14:38 | Llorean | That's completely unrelated to mp4. |
| 22:14:48 | Llorean | It's a video player that plays mpeg 1 and mpeg 2 video. |
| 22:15:02 | Llorean | It really helps if you use the proper names of things. |
| 22:15:43 | othniel | Yes that is one of my pet peeves also, But an m4b is just like a mpeg movie. |
| 22:15:57 | othniel | Except it is mostly audio with pictures |
| 22:16:09 | othniel | not moving pictures either. |
| 22:16:37 | scorche|sh | there are many different types of "mpeg movies |
| 22:16:38 | Llorean | An m4b is an AAC stream in an MP4 container. |
| 22:16:49 | | Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 22:17:07 | Llorean | That's a different type of audio, a different type of container, and no video whatsoever compared to MPEG1/MPEG2 movies. |
| 22:17:20 | Llorean | The only similarity is that both are part of the MPEG umbrella. |
| 22:17:28 | othniel | ok but from where I sit they are similar. |
| 22:17:56 | othniel | Yet rockbox supports one and not the other |
| 22:18:14 | | Quit user890104 (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 22:18:21 | Llorean | MP3 is more similar to MP4 than MPEG1 video files are. |
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| 22:19:11 | othniel | The .m4b files I was asking about have an AAC audio stream and PNG images every 3 to 5 minutes. |
| 22:19:15 | Llorean | Rockbox plays AAC audio in MP4 containers just fine as long as the metadata is optimized for streaming. |
| 22:19:25 | othniel | It would be nice to listen to them |
| 22:19:33 | Llorean | .m4b files are just AAC in MP4, but the ones you're describing have metadata that gets in the way |
| 22:19:45 | othniel | Better to actually show the images as they are encountered in the stream. |
| 22:19:48 | Llorean | Run it through an app like MP4box that fixes the metadata and they ought to play |
| 22:20:48 | othniel | I know how to use ffmpeg command line, but I'd like to see the images as they are encountered. |
| 22:20:54 | Llorean | Then fix it. |
| 22:20:56 | Llorean | It's open source. |
| 22:21:15 | othniel | I'd love to. |
| 22:21:18 | Llorean | It's more work than you seem to think it is, and there's very little interest in actually *doing* the work from the people, like you, who want it done. |
| 22:21:18 | RedWork | afternoon folks |
| 22:21:24 | othniel | I'm trying to get up to speed. |
| 22:21:44 | RedWork | I'm attempting to load RB on a Toshiba GigaBeat S, following the instructions here: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-gigabeats/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-110002.2.2 |
| 22:21:58 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@giant.haxx.se) |
| 22:22:08 | AlexP | othniel: Part of the trouble is is that while there is a work around, not many of the devs are going to put the time into something they don't use |
| 22:22:24 | RedWork | I get as far as beastloader saying it's complete and rebooting, but it comes up in toshiba recovery mode, not BR mass storage |
| 22:22:33 | AlexP | beastpatcher? |
| 22:22:35 | Llorean | othniel: First, someone would need to add support for PNG album art in general. |
| 22:22:38 | RedWork | I've tried hard rebooting with the battery switch |
| 22:22:45 | Llorean | othniel: Then they'd need to fix the MP4 parser to deal with mid-file metadata |
| 22:22:49 | othniel | Right. I'm getting a Sansa Fuze+ this week |
| 22:22:52 | RedWork | alexp, yes, beastpatcher.exe |
| 22:22:53 | Llorean | othniel: Then they'd probably also have to fix it to deal with exceedingly long files. |
| 22:22:59 | AlexP | Llorean: image viewer supports png IIRC, so at least we have some code |
| 22:23:05 | AlexP | But not in core |
| 22:23:08 | Llorean | AlexP: Yes. |
| 22:23:10 | othniel | I've got e280v1 (3) and 2 e280v2 |
| 22:23:30 | AlexP | RedWork: Are you trying to use the single or dual boot bootloader? |
| 22:23:43 | othniel | An Ipod Classic 80GB |
| 22:23:47 | RedWork | single, I've no use for the original firmware |
| 22:23:54 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 22:24:09 | AlexP | RedWork: Try dual |
| 22:24:21 | RedWork | alexp, alright, I'll give it a try |
| 22:24:23 | AlexP | RedWork: The Toshiba bootloader can be very randomly picky |
| 22:24:33 | AlexP | RedWork: And it seems to have fewer problems with dual |
| 22:24:49 | Llorean | Yeah, a lot of people seem to have better luck with dual boot than single boot, with certain versions of the Toshiba firmware. |
| 22:24:59 | AlexP | RedWork: For some people single is fine, others have problems. For all those that have had problems with single, dual has worked |
| 22:25:00 | RedWork | alexP, i've gotten that impression (picky), but didn't know dual was less so |
| 22:25:13 | RedWork | thanks for the help, I'll give it a try |
| 22:25:20 | AlexP | fingers crossed :) |
| 22:26:04 | RedWork | yeah |
| 22:30:15 | | Join robin0800 [0] (~robin0800@genld-218-248.t-mobile.co.uk) |
| 22:33:55 | RedWork | alright, the link for MESV12US.zip is 404, so nk.bin is looking to be difficult to get |
| 22:34:51 | | Quit Stummi (Quit: Bye!) |
| 22:40:19 | othniel | AlexP you still there? I've reorganized the Feature Comparison page to present information more clearly. Any feedback? |
| 22:40:27 | AlexP | one mo |
| 22:41:42 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
| 22:42:22 | | Join Jerom [0] (~jerome@79.132.42.48) |
| 22:42:27 | AlexP | othniel: looks fine to me |
| 22:42:52 | | Quit ChickeNES (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
| 22:42:54 | AlexP | I think the biggest issue there is the difficulty of comparing RB to the vast number of different OFs |
| 22:43:03 | othniel | Lot of missing tags on footnote refs |
| 22:43:18 | AlexP | It might be even worth dropping the comparison part and just expanding/merging with WhyRockbox |
| 22:43:18 | | Join GeekShadow [0] (~antoine@254.164.21.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 22:43:45 | othniel | Yes but this page is just a general info for newer users to get them interested in Rockbox. |
| 22:43:59 | Llorean | That's the intent of the WhyRockbox page. |
| 22:44:16 | AlexP | Exactly |
| 22:44:29 | AlexP | WhyRockbox is the one we link from the front page |
| 22:44:43 | AlexP | Quite a lot of it is duplicated between the two too |
| 22:44:54 | AlexP | othniel: Thanks for working on this by the way |
| 22:44:57 | AlexP | The wiki is a mess |
| 22:45:34 | othniel | Hey I'm an unemployed software developer that uses Rockbox. I should have helped a long time ago. |
| 22:46:08 | AlexP | well late is better than never :) |
| 22:47:18 | othniel | I will continue to help. But I'll probably help with the Fuze+ port when I get mine. |
| 22:49:01 | | Join hilbert [0] (~hilbert@89.217.203.0) |
| 22:50:21 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 22:53:50 | | Join n1s [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 22:57:26 | othniel | A question on 10.1 in the manual. What are the kbps for PCM wave, AIFF, wavpack and mp3 the last being a function of sampling rate? |
| 22:58:44 | Llorean | I'm not sure what you mean |
| 22:58:51 | AlexP | othniel: I don't follow |
| 22:59:24 | Llorean | PCM and AIFF have a bitrate determined by bit depth and sample rate. On most players I guess that'll be 1411kbps. |
| 22:59:25 | othniel | when you type in ffmpeg -i file it tells you what the kbps for the file |
| 22:59:36 | Llorean | wavpack's bitrate is entirely dependent on the content being recorded, since it's lossless compression. |
| 22:59:46 | AlexP | and wav and aiff are fixed |
| 22:59:51 | AlexP | mp3 you can chose |
| 22:59:52 | othniel | also tells you the codec container stereo or not sampling rate etc |
| 22:59:56 | Llorean | MP3's bitrate is up to the user. |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:09 | othniel | Wav is not fixed |
| 23:00:10 | AlexP | you are recording here |
| 23:00:20 | Llorean | othniel: WAV is fixed based on sample rate and bit depth. |
| 23:00:27 | AlexP | You set the bitrate you want the mp3 to record at |
| 23:00:30 | Llorean | For each combination thereof, there is only one bitrate a wave file will be. |
| 23:00:31 | othniel | I have one recorder which does 768kbps |
| 23:00:38 | othniel | and another that does 64kbps |
| 23:00:44 | AlexP | othniel: It is, you can't chose wav bitrate |
| 23:00:56 | othniel | Again nope it depends on the codec |
| 23:00:58 | AlexP | It is uncompressed |
| 23:01:07 | AlexP | wav is the "codec" |
| 23:01:11 | Llorean | Well, PCM is |
| 23:01:37 | othniel | wav is the container inside is a code for which codec was used |
| 23:01:38 | Llorean | But with PCM wav files, there literally is only one bitrate per sample rate / bit depth / channels combination |
| 23:01:48 | AlexP | yeah |
| 23:01:59 | Llorean | A 44.1 khz, 16-bit, stereo PCM wav file will always be 1411kbps |
| 23:02:07 | Llorean | If you halve the sample rate, it'll halve the kbps. |
| 23:02:08 | Llorean | Etc |
| 23:02:22 | Llorean | Because it's uncompressed it's literally samples * bits per sample * channels |
| 23:02:33 | n1s | there are some weird compressed bitstreams in some wav files though |
| 23:02:51 | AlexP | Perhaps we should say PCM WAV or something |
| 23:02:52 | n1s | othniel: if you just say wav file everyone will assume you mean it's a pcm file |
| 23:02:58 | Llorean | 44100 * 16 * 2 = 1411200 or 1411.2kbps |
| 23:03:22 | othniel | recode a wav file using the adpcm_ima_wav using ffmpeg and you will see that it is not true |
| 23:03:35 | n1s | see, adpcm != pcm |
| 23:03:55 | AlexP | adpcm is different to pcm |
| 23:03:58 | Llorean | othniel: Rockbox doesn't do adpcm. |
| 23:04:00 | othniel | I used to think that before I bought a Chinese MP3 player that stores very efficient wav recordings |
| 23:04:02 | AlexP | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADPCM |
| 23:04:16 | n1s | so if you are talking about different ecodings, speaking of wavfiles is entirely unhelpful |
| 23:04:16 | AlexP | It isn't PCM, which is what everybody means when they say wav |
| 23:04:28 | Llorean | othniel: The manual explicitly says PCM wave. Other formats that can be in the WAV container are irrelevant |
| 23:04:30 | Llorean | They aren't supported. |
| 23:04:47 | gevaerts | There's of course also the fact that some chinese mp3 files encode as mp3 but use .wav as the file extension... |
| 23:04:47 | othniel | but it is wav and is supported by WMP |
| 23:04:51 | othniel | I'm learning. |
| 23:04:54 | AlexP | oh, we already specify :) |
| 23:04:58 | n1s | i think we play some of those weird wavs actually but don't record them |
| 23:05:03 | Llorean | othniel: What does WMP have to do with questions about Rockbox? |
| 23:05:05 | AlexP | othniel: but not PCM WAV |
| 23:05:18 | Llorean | othniel: You asked about the bitrate for Rockbox. I answered that it's a fixed function of sample rate, bit depth, and channels |
| 23:05:24 | othniel | Ok im beat down. I learn fast. |
| 23:06:10 | AlexP | heh :) |
| 23:06:39 | Llorean | AIFF is uncompressed as well, and follows the same rules as PCM WAV in respect to Rockbox. |
| 23:06:45 | Llorean | Because wavpack is a lossless format, its bitrate is variable, and can't be predicted in advance. |
| 23:06:54 | Llorean | And MP3 as said, is selectable. |
| 23:07:51 | othniel | I thought the Sansa e280v2 was bad! |
| 23:08:02 | AlexP | how so? |
| 23:08:41 | othniel | You are saying that if I record in rockbox using WAV I will generate 1411k bps over a megabit per second? |
| 23:08:59 | AlexP | yes |
| 23:09:01 | AlexP | well |
| 23:09:14 | Llorean | You're generating that no matter what you record in. The other formats either compress it, or throw some of it away and compress it. |
| 23:09:16 | AlexP | depending on sample rate etc |
| 23:09:16 | othniel | That is twice as large as the e280v2 OF record. |
| 23:09:28 | othniel | Its not selectable |
| 23:09:29 | AlexP | I think the e200 is limited to 22kHz |
| 23:09:38 | AlexP | So it will be 768 kbps |
| 23:09:38 | Llorean | The e200v1 is. I don't know about the v2 |
| 23:09:42 | AlexP | right |
| 23:09:43 | Llorean | But they're also mono, so that'd halve it again. |
| 23:09:49 | AlexP | yes |
| 23:09:54 | Llorean | Unless it stupidly records to stereo from a mono input. |
| 23:10:01 | AlexP | It might :) |
| 23:10:10 | othniel | According to manual 10.2 |
| 23:10:10 | gevaerts | You could be recording from FM |
| 23:10:56 | othniel | The file produced by OF is stereo. |
| 23:11:12 | othniel | That's what I'm talking about. |
| 23:11:37 | | Join saratoga [0] (98034408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.68.8) |
| 23:11:58 | AlexP | So if it is stereo, limited to 22 kHz, and 16 bit it'll be half 1441 kbps |
| 23:12:05 | AlexP | uncompressed audio is large |
| 23:12:22 | AlexP | This is why if you want to really keep everything, wavpack is a great idea |
| 23:12:24 | Llorean | othniel: I don't see what you're referring to in the e200v2 manual section 10.2 |
| 23:12:41 | othniel | rockbox manual 10.2 |
| 23:12:46 | othniel | for e200v2 |
| 23:12:48 | Llorean | Literally the entirety of that section of the Rockbox manual is "This sets the bitrate when using the MPEG Layer 3 format. And has no settings for the other formats" |
| 23:12:48 | AlexP | *1411 |
| 23:13:15 | othniel | so wav has no settings for sample rate |
| 23:13:28 | Llorean | No setting for bitrate. |
| 23:13:36 | Llorean | Bitrate is not sample rate. |
| 23:13:40 | othniel | Only mono/stereo |
| 23:13:51 | Llorean | "Sample Rate" would be section 10.3 |
| 23:14:00 | Llorean | Frequency = frequency of samples, or sample rate. |
| 23:14:08 | Llorean | 10.5 is channels. |
| 23:14:12 | Llorean | I see no mention of the OF anywhere anyway. |
| 23:14:13 | saratoga | should probably be a comma rather then a period between those clauses |
| 23:14:17 | AlexP | Frequency you can set depending on what the hardware can do |
| 23:14:26 | AlexP | saratoga: yes, not great English |
| 23:14:37 | AlexP | I'll change it |
| 23:14:41 | Llorean | AlexP: According to the e200v2 manual we support 96khz down through 8khz. |
| 23:14:44 | Llorean | A pretty respectable range |
| 23:14:50 | AlexP | yeah, pretty good |
| 23:14:54 | saratoga | othniel: aside from grammar, that seems quite clear to me, do you actually have some question about what its explaining? |
| 23:15:00 | AlexP | Llorean: It must be the v1 that is limited |
| 23:15:17 | othniel | So when I read it I assumed that wav had no settings for frequency. |
| 23:15:23 | Llorean | AlexP: Yeah, the V1 is definitely limited. |
| 23:15:27 | saratoga | "Note: The 11.025 kHz setting is not available when using MPEG Layer 3 format." -< niether is anything above 48k |
| 23:15:40 | Llorean | saratoga: General limits of MP3 I assume? |
| 23:15:47 | saratoga | yeah |
| 23:15:57 | saratoga | although i think mp3 can do 11k too, but maybe our encoder can't |
| 23:15:58 | Llorean | othniel: Why would something about bitrate choices lead you to assumptions about frequency choices? |
| 23:16:15 | Llorean | othniel: The section on frequency doesn't mention any limitations in regard to PCM Wave. |
| 23:16:37 | | Part LinusN |
| 23:16:48 | saratoga | perhaps 10.2 should be renamed "10.2 Encoder Settings (MP3 only)" |
| 23:16:49 | | Quit ender` (Quit: "I'm the head wizard now. I've only got to give an order and a thousand wizards will ... uh ... disobey, come to think of it, or say 'What?', or start to argue. But they have to take notice." -- Archchancellor (Terry Pratchett: Lords and Ladies)) |
| 23:16:49 | othniel | ok if I'm wrong I'm glad. |
| 23:17:19 | Llorean | saratoga: At least for now, that may be wise. |
| 23:17:39 | Llorean | saratoga: Or perhaps since the only encoder-related setting is currently "Bitrate" just rename it to "Bitrate (MP3 only)" |
| 23:17:54 | saratoga | yeah makes sense |
| 23:17:59 | Llorean | Since some people think of frequency, channels, etc as encoder settings (even though they're really source settings) and that seems to have caused confusion here. |
| 23:18:30 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@vit94-1-82-67-248-70.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 23:18:30 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 23:18:38 | saratoga | another idea might be to make that setting only appear in the menu when the encoder is set to mp3 |
| 23:18:47 | | Part Zagor |
| 23:18:49 | saratoga | trying it now it actually still exists for wav, but you can't set it, which is a bit weird |
| 23:18:57 | pamaury | bertrik: I finished the two battery benches |
| 23:19:16 | AlexP | saratoga: What does it look like if you have one of the other formats selected? |
| 23:19:39 | saratoga | its listed but if you click it you get a splash saying "no settings" |
| 23:19:43 | AlexP | OK |
| 23:19:48 | Llorean | saratoga: It might be nice if WAV could replace it with expected output bitrate based on the other options, but yeah, probably just hiding it for everything but MP3 might be nice |
| 23:20:05 | AlexP | If I change the manual does someone want to change the menu? |
| 23:20:19 | AlexP | I like "Bitrate (MP3 only)" myself |
| 23:20:32 | saratoga | anyone familiar with the menu code? i can never figure out if my changes will break something |
| 23:20:44 | othniel | Are you thinking to make Format 1st, Frequency 2nd and Encoder 3rd on the menu? |
| 23:21:18 | othniel | Or should Source come 1st? |
| 23:22:33 | RedWork | AlexP, that did it, thanks. |
| 23:22:40 | AlexP | RedWork: cool :) |
| 23:22:49 | AlexP | You managed to find nk.bin somewhere? |
| 23:23:05 | RedWork | a buddy of mine had it stashed somewhere |
| 23:23:10 | AlexP | cool |
| 23:23:20 | RedWork | actually had several older versions |
| 23:23:21 | AlexP | It is a shame we can't distribute it, but there you go |
| 23:23:27 | othniel | 8k Hz sample rate * 16 bit samples * stereo gives 256k bps wav recordings? |
| 23:23:27 | RedWork | *nod* |
| 23:23:58 | Llorean | Should be, yes. |
| 23:24:08 | RedWork | thanks again, I'm out of here |
| 23:24:12 | | Quit RedWork (Quit: Leaving) |
| 23:25:37 | othniel | I can live with that. Interesting discussion. Did not know that ADPCM was not supported in rockbox. It would cut the size from 256k bps to 64k bps |
| 23:25:57 | othniel | Can do that conversion with ffmpeg |
| 23:26:00 | saratoga | adpcm is not really that useful in recent times |
| 23:26:10 | othniel | Then to SPEEX |
| 23:26:16 | saratoga | if you want lossy mp3 is a lot better |
| 23:26:19 | AlexP | saratoga: To change the menu name, it'd just be the lang files, no? |
| 23:26:20 | othniel | Or straight to speex |
| 23:26:41 | bertrik | pamaury, and what is the result of the battery benches? |
| 23:26:43 | AlexP | if you want lossy use mp3, if you want lossless use wavpack |
| 23:26:48 | saratoga | AlexP: oh i was thinking of making the menu not appear if it wasn't needed |
| 23:26:57 | AlexP | wav and aiff don't have a lot of uses really |
| 23:27:01 | AlexP | saratoga: ah right :) |
| 23:27:13 | AlexP | Well renaming would be a good start I think |
| 23:27:25 | othniel | Well I'm recording lectures so low sampling WAV is fine for me. |
| 23:27:33 | AlexP | why not use mp3 then? |
| 23:27:36 | AlexP | It'll be smaller |
| 23:27:39 | Llorean | Yeah, using wave or AIFF is just a waste of space unless you simply do not have a tool that can deal with wavpack. |
| 23:27:43 | pamaury | bertrik: 14:52:39 with svn VS 14:27:43 with the #if 1 |
| 23:27:52 | othniel | What is the battery life of mp3 recording vs Wav recording? |
| 23:28:05 | pamaury | so half an hour of difference :-/ |
| 23:28:12 | saratoga | probably depends on if you have flash or a hard disk |
| 23:28:22 | othniel | on e280v1 or e280v2 |
| 23:28:58 | othniel | My recording are about 3.5 hours long each |
| 23:29:29 | Llorean | I don't think anyone's done any real testing on the encoder efficiencies. |
| 23:29:32 | othniel | so bitrate is important to me to not fill up DAR |
| 23:29:57 | othniel | Maybe I can test and post on the WIKI. |
| 23:30:18 | CIA-14 | New commit by alex (r30720): Manual: Small English improvement |
| 23:30:38 | AlexP | I just removed the second sentence, it was superfluous |
| 23:32:38 | CIA-14 | r30720 build result: 0 errors, 1 warnings (alex committed) |
| 23:32:53 | othniel | Is the online manual for e280v2 updated AlexP? |
| 23:33:12 | AlexP | othniel: It will be when it is rebuilt in a few hours |
| 23:33:27 | AlexP | It's done once at day at about 06:00 IIRC |
| 23:33:30 | AlexP | (CET) |
| 23:33:33 | pamaury | I don't know if r30717 was a good idea since the warning was to have to know you had to implement it |
| 23:33:34 | othniel | You were speaking of editing section 10.2? |
| 23:33:42 | pamaury | *was nice |
| 23:33:47 | AlexP | I did, but only very slightly |
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| 23:46:11 | othniel | Why is the Ipod Classic mentioned on the HardDriveReplacement wiki page? |
| 23:46:27 | othniel | Is it a supported rocbox platform ? |
| 23:46:50 | | Quit pamaury (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:47:20 | Llorean | othniel: It's a port in development |
| 23:47:42 | othniel | Like the Sansa Fuze+? |
| 23:47:57 | Llorean | More or less |
| 23:48:03 | Llorean | You'll see them both in the same area on the front page. |
| 23:50:26 | othniel | Do you mean dev.cgi or some other Front Page? |
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| 23:54:40 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 23:56:45 | * | gevaerts never even considered that anyone could think of dev.cgi as the front page... |
| 23:58:34 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).