00:00:45 | gevaerts | Have you considered http://www.rockbox.org/ ? |
00:01:06 | othniel | ok found it |
00:01:16 | othniel | Still funny |
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02:29:11 | prhalmen | hi, anyone on here? :) |
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02:30:35 | GeekShadow | nope everyone is crying for Jobs |
02:30:46 | GeekShadow | the lion sleeps tonight |
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02:32:07 | AlexP | prhalmen: If you have a question, just go ahead |
02:34:47 | prhalmen | im looking all over the web to try and find a (working?) rio karma |
02:35:10 | AlexP | I'm not sure how that relates to Rockbox |
02:35:16 | prhalmen | after a long search, i landed here... does anyone have, by any chance, a rio karma they might wanna sell? |
02:35:17 | AlexP | We don't run on the Rio Karma |
02:35:25 | prhalmen | i got in over the rio karma rockbox port site |
02:35:34 | AlexP | Nothing to do with us |
02:35:40 | AlexP | Where are they? |
02:35:52 | prhalmen | and read on the forums how some bought karmas just for hacking, so i thought someone might wanna sell one of those |
02:36:03 | prhalmen | some say, the best mp3 player ever built |
02:36:30 | krazykit | prhalmen, yeah, i sold mine to lamdacalculus for that reason, but nothing happened with that, and i wouldn't expect anything to |
02:36:35 | prhalmen | didnt mean to offend anyone, just wanted to ask, thought i might get lucky |
02:36:50 | AlexP | prhalmen: No offence, I just don't think you'll have much luck |
02:37:03 | AlexP | We don't run on it, nor have any real attempts been made to |
02:37:18 | AlexP | So I wouldn't expect to find any here really :) |
02:37:27 | prhalmen | yeah, ok. thanks anyway |
02:37:31 | prhalmen | :) |
02:37:40 | AlexP | no worries :) |
02:38:11 | prhalmen | oh, and @geekshadow didnt mean to disturb the mourning. rip steve o/ |
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04:00 |
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04:43:34 | othniel | Can someone with recording experience with Rockbox tell me the range of mp3 recording so I can document it in the WIKI |
04:43:44 | othniel | speeds |
04:43:48 | othniel | bitrates |
04:44:11 | othniel | Also for .wav .AIFF and .WV |
04:44:16 | othniel | ranges |
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04:47:15 | tbruff13 | hey i put a video on my ipod nano 2gen and it is not showing up in rockbox i made sure to convert it to the rockbox format using winff it still did not show up |
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04:47:47 | [Saint] | What's your "show files" set to? |
04:48:16 | tbruff13 | how can i tell that |
04:49:03 | [Saint] | Searching the manual for "show files". :) I don't have a dap near me. |
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04:50:20 | tbruff13 | Saint i set show files to all but now the video wont play help |
04:50:23 | [Saint] | Settings - general settings - file view - show files. |
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04:50:28 | tbruff13 | that is done |
04:50:32 | tbruff13 | it wont play |
04:51:09 | [Saint] | What type of video format is this? |
04:51:18 | [Saint] | How was it converted? |
04:52:03 | tbruff13 | it is mpg |
04:52:20 | tbruff13 | i went to winff and used the preset rockbox ipod nano fullscreen |
04:53:55 | [Saint] | It should work, then. Provided your build is current, File a bug on flyspray, attatch the file, or a file, showing the error if possible. |
04:54:56 | tbruff13 | ok im checking in the automated install if i missed installing the plugin |
04:55:12 | [Saint] | I'm in no position to test this presently, sorry. My nano2g builds are holds as the hills, and video works fine. |
04:55:33 | [Saint] | tbruff13: it's not an option to install. |
04:55:38 | [Saint] | Its always there. |
04:56:05 | [Saint] | You would have needed to explicitly remove it. I'm quite sure you didn't :) |
04:56:09 | tbruff13 | Saint well then please help |
04:56:14 | tbruff13 | it just wont play |
04:56:41 | tbruff13 | let me try encoding to a new winff preset |
04:57:13 | tbruff13 | it wont make a difference |
04:57:19 | tbruff13 | well crap |
04:57:21 | [Saint] | That's all the help I can offer, file a bug report, or don't. |
04:57:35 | tbruff13 | Saint how do i file a bug report |
04:57:36 | [Saint] | It'd be good if you did, though. |
04:58:10 | [Saint] | Flyspray is linked from the Rockbox.org main page. |
04:58:23 | [Saint] | You'll need to make an account. |
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04:59:15 | tbruff13 | ok im make a bug report but all i can say is the video wont play there is no error log as far as i can see the plugin wont start |
05:00 |
05:00:29 | [Saint] | ...and give the details asked for regarding build version, etc. |
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05:04:44 | tbruff13 | ok |
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05:18:34 | tbruff13 | Saint i posted a bug report how long until someone reponds |
05:18:39 | tbruff13 | answers |
05:21:46 | [Saint] | That's impossible to say. |
05:22:01 | tbruff13 | Saint i cant see my bug report in the list |
05:22:54 | [Saint] | I can... |
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05:23:36 | tbruff13 | found it but i could not give much as far as errors it just did not start should i try an older version of rockbox |
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05:26:12 | tbruff13 | Saint i changed the name of the file so the video did not play |
05:26:20 | tbruff13 | i did not put .mpg after it |
05:26:34 | tbruff13 | i gave them an oops note in the bug my fault |
05:26:45 | [Saint] | *facepalm* :) |
05:27:08 | [Saint] | I assumed you'd checked it played elsewhere :) |
05:28:54 | tbruff13 | it did |
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08:54:53 | JdGordon | how the heck was buflib allowed to go in without proper unit testing off target? |
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08:56:33 | Zagor | did we ever unit test *anything*? |
08:56:50 | JdGordon | hardly an argument against starting :) |
09:00 |
09:04:46 | kugel | JdGordon: by *noone* replying to my several mails to the ml |
09:05:34 | JdGordon | I said *unit* testing.... |
09:06:00 | kugel | I read that |
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09:07:21 | kugel | I mean noone asked for it, or even reviewed (at least not so that I knew about it) |
09:07:50 | JdGordon | for a system that important it should have been obvious it was needed |
09:09:06 | kugel | I've had unit tests in kugel-/buflib">https://github.com/kugel-/buflib since the beginning |
09:10:43 | KiwiCam | Please. When it says "viewport relative", how does that relate to a progress bar that I want to go vertically instead of horizontally? I presume that this is to do with where the x & y co-ordinates start relative to the viewport. Could someone please clarify? |
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09:39:33 | JdGordon | KiwiCam: viewport relative means 0,0 is the top left pixel of the viewport |
09:39:53 | JdGordon | 5,5 would put it at 15,15 if the viewport itself is at 10,10 |
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09:41:12 | JdGordon | I got a "fun" raaa bug on my phone on the way homr from work today... its refusing to play the next song in the playlist |
09:41:22 | JdGordon | i start a new playlist, it plays the first one then just does nothing |
09:41:45 | JdGordon | pressing skip next causes it to crash! |
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09:43:11 | JdGordon | hmm, adb logs suggest its an audio hardware bug |
09:47:05 | kugel | meh, the log viewer bug (about nicks in urls) is annoying |
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09:56:31 | KiwiCam | I believe I've got it now. Thanks. So, this gives me a PB Bar Tag with a bit map (5 pixels across and 1 high) that rises from bottom to top, and I didn't need to specify "vertical". In what situations would I use the Horizontal and Vertical options in a Bar Tag? Why didn't I need it here? |
09:56:42 | Zagor | kugel: it's in svn :-) |
09:57:45 | kugel | Zagor: I know, mc2739 attempted to fix it but didn't succeed |
10:00 |
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10:05:23 | KiwiCam | Oops. I better show some code: %xl(Z,levels.bmp,0,0) %Vl(a,0,0,5,-,-) %pb(0,0,5,20,-,slider,Z,nofill,nobar) |
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11:47:42 | JdGordon | clipv1 booting with svn again :) |
11:47:54 | JdGordon | well, not quite svn, but bug fixes only |
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11:50:08 | JdGordon | kugel: can you *please* change the buflib debug screen to use multi lines for each item? and add some meaning to the numbers.... |
11:50:48 | JdGordon | does anyone have a target that doesnt boot with svn? |
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11:56:02 | kugel | JdGordon: the numbers have a meaning. it's the total size of the alloc (in n*sizeof(union buflib_data)) |
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11:56:59 | kugel | including metadata |
11:57:07 | wodz | JdGordon: hw targets are said to not boot |
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11:58:03 | JdGordon | I dont have a hwcodec target handy |
11:58:14 | JdGordon | amiconn: pixelma: test a bugfix patch? |
11:58:33 | KiwiCam | I've sussed it now. |
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11:59:15 | JdGordon | err, the talk about debug symbols before... we dont build with any at all? I thught they just get stripped from the elf? |
12:00 |
12:00:15 | Torne | you are confusing debug information with symbols |
12:00:29 | Torne | we build with symbols because you can't *not* build with symbols and still link anything |
12:00:40 | Torne | (but they are discarded when you objcopy, no need to explicitly strip) |
12:00:46 | Torne | we don't build with any debug info |
12:00:50 | JdGordon | ok |
12:01:05 | Torne | i think we should, but haven't gotten around to timing how much longer it makes the build |
12:01:11 | JdGordon | short answer is a cant to an objdump intermixed with the c code |
12:01:11 | Torne | probably negligible, but hey |
12:01:21 | Torne | no, you can't |
12:01:26 | Torne | add -g to the build flags |
12:01:27 | Torne | then it will work |
12:01:48 | Torne | also time how long it takes and if it's negligible, please commit the change :p |
12:02:08 | JdGordon | the build flags in which makefile? |
12:03:02 | Torne | globally |
12:03:11 | Torne | possibly in configure? |
12:03:12 | Torne | i'm not sure :) |
12:03:19 | Torne | i don't really know how our build thingy works. |
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12:05:46 | JdGordon | adding it to the Makefile in the buildd dir didnt seem to work |
12:05:56 | JdGordon | or it got stripped elsewhere |
12:07:00 | gevaerts | JdGordon: did you use the right objdump options? |
12:07:16 | JdGordon | which are the right ones? :) |
12:07:20 | JdGordon | -dslS? |
12:07:23 | wodz | I hacked root.make to build with -g IIRC |
12:07:47 | Torne | JdGordon: do you have a bunch of .debug_* sections |
12:07:49 | Torne | if so you did it right |
12:07:56 | Torne | (and thus your objdump must be wrong) :) |
12:08:01 | Torne | otherwise, no |
12:08:24 | JdGordon | yeah, lots |
12:08:41 | JdGordon | err.. of 0 size |
12:08:51 | KiwiCam | Has anyone ported the Simulator or Theme Editor across to the Android phone? If not, is this being worked on, or considered? |
12:08:58 | JdGordon | oh no, readint he wrong column |
12:09:25 | wodz | KiwiCam: simulator on android? what for? |
12:10:03 | wodz | KiwiCam: rockbox on android can be observed as a special kind of rockbox simulator |
12:10:04 | gevaerts | JdGordon: I know I recently used -dS for it. Did you add -g to the link flags too? |
12:11:45 | JdGordon | ah no |
12:12:30 | JdGordon | still nothing, LDOPTS and GLOBAL_LDOPTS > |
12:12:38 | JdGordon | s/>/?/ |
12:14:26 | KiwiCam | wodz: But can it emulate the Clip? That's what I'm wanting a Sim for. |
12:14:31 | gevaerts | JdGordon: I apparently added -g to GCCOPTS only (in Makefile) |
12:14:42 | Torne | it should be sufficient to just add it to gcc |
12:14:44 | Torne | the linker doesn't care |
12:15:11 | JdGordon | gevaerts: thats what I did first, doesnt matter, ill figure this out the slow way with lcd_puts :p |
12:15:21 | JdGordon | not entirely sure what the objdump would tell me anywway |
12:15:53 | JdGordon | data abort is unaligned access no? |
12:15:58 | gevaerts | JdGordon: which file are you running objdump on? |
12:16:07 | JdGordon | rockbox.elf? |
12:16:29 | wodz | kugel: About your comment about backtrace - you can call it basically from anywhere. Current implementation takes one argument (PC) to start interpretation from and assumes that the stack to be inspected is svc stack. The letter can be easily extended. |
12:16:34 | JdGordon | font.o is the same |
12:16:56 | gevaerts | ok. I just did a clip build with -g added to GCCOPTS, and arm-elf-eabi-objdump -dS rockbox.elf does show me the source |
12:17:12 | KiwiCam | wodz: Sometimes I find myself sitting somewhere with idle time. I'd love to be able to just start theming for my clip using the Android. |
12:17:13 | * | JdGordon disables ccache |
12:17:19 | kugel | wodz: so, is it implemented for panicf() calls? |
12:17:23 | wodz | JdGordon: it can also be data access outside of address space supported by SoC |
12:17:38 | wodz | kugel: it this patch? no |
12:17:42 | wodz | *in |
12:18:02 | Torne | wodz: do we actually have any SoCs that bother to signal external aborts but don't have a FSR? :) |
12:18:09 | kugel | wodz: can you do that? :) |
12:18:53 | gevaerts | JdGordon: data abort usually is unaligned access, yes. I believe it can be other things too, but I've never seen them. The source helps with finding which line is wrong more precisely without having to understand asm :) |
12:19:13 | JdGordon | gevaerts: /me feels stupid |
12:19:13 | kugel | I don't suppose it can be used on app targets (read: RaaAoA) in signal handlers like for SIGSEGV? |
12:19:39 | Torne | kugel: should be, but android tombstones are probably more useful |
12:19:47 | JdGordon | apparently you cant use s and S together |
12:19:48 | wodz | Torne: On rk27xx for example gating clock signal to dma module produce data aborts when accessing dma registers |
12:20:02 | Torne | wodz: what ARM is that? |
12:20:12 | wodz | arm7ejs |
12:20:20 | Torne | does it implement cp15? |
12:20:25 | gevaerts | JdGordon: that does make some sort of sense in hindsight :) |
12:20:34 | wodz | I believe no |
12:20:55 | Torne | wodz: okay, well that might be one then. |
12:21:08 | Torne | wodz: but pretty much all our existing arm7 targets don't actually generate external aborts to my knowledge |
12:21:19 | Torne | they just return nonsense or mirrored data :) |
12:21:37 | gevaerts | Which is *useful*! |
12:21:43 | JdGordon | WHAT THE fucking fuck? |
12:21:59 | Torne | gevaerts: well, kinda. |
12:22:24 | Torne | gevaerts: it is useful sometimes if MSBs that decode to a functional unit that doesn't exist or has its clock disabled aborts :) |
12:22:50 | Torne | but it's sometimes useful when things are mirrored within their address range |
12:24:59 | Torne | wodz: are you going to try and change to running in system mode btw? |
12:25:09 | Torne | i don't think anyone will object |
12:25:14 | Torne | but it might be worth, er, telling people |
12:25:25 | Torne | since it's relevant when debugging :p |
12:25:27 | wodz | Torne: yes, I am going to post patch on FS |
12:25:50 | Torne | good stuff |
12:26:03 | Torne | then we can come up with a use for SWI :) |
12:26:11 | wodz | there are 16 Crt0*.S files in /firmware/target/arm |
12:26:27 | Torne | yeah.. |
12:26:36 | wodz | I am wondering what to do with the ones used exclusively in bootloaders |
12:26:44 | Torne | change them as well |
12:26:50 | Torne | there really is no reason not to |
12:27:00 | wodz | ok |
12:27:12 | Torne | the fact that ARMs boot into svc is just a legacy of ARMs that had less modes |
12:27:58 | wodz | what to do with freed svc? what sp assign to this? |
12:28:40 | Torne | UIE, presumably |
12:28:45 | Torne | That's what we already do on swi, no? |
12:28:52 | wodz | yes |
12:28:59 | Torne | Oh, actually no |
12:29:03 | Torne | we appear to just return |
12:29:09 | Torne | ..we shold UIE :) |
12:29:12 | wodz | eee? |
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12:29:41 | Torne | anyway, it can use the irq stack the same as abort and undef, no? |
12:29:54 | Torne | if all uses are fatal then it doens't matter what stack you use as long as it's valid |
12:30:15 | wodz | indeed we just return |
12:30:44 | Torne | We shouldn't do that |
12:30:48 | Torne | :) |
12:31:02 | Torne | since that means that calling swi just corrupts r14 for you and then continues |
12:31:13 | Torne | not particularly nice behaviour |
12:31:23 | wodz | and here we come to the point - for now it doesn't matter what sp it uses but when we start to exploit swi we should have separate stack |
12:31:27 | Torne | i guess if we run in sys then it won't corrupt r14 any more. |
12:31:35 | Torne | Well, yes |
12:31:41 | Torne | If we're goingt o use it for anything it needs its own stack |
12:31:53 | Torne | since you'll probably want to be able to take irqs |
12:32:10 | Torne | You could allocate a third stack and use it for svc/abt/und |
12:32:20 | Torne | since those should hopefully be exclusive :) |
12:32:23 | wodz | I am wrapping my head around gdb arm-stub now which could potentially use swi for single stepping |
12:33:46 | Torne | anyway, for now it's sufficient to just use the irq stack i think. |
12:33:57 | wodz | ok |
12:34:16 | wodz | I'll try to craft patch later today |
12:34:52 | Torne | all exceptions disable IRQs so there is no risk of stack corruptoin |
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12:38:42 | Torne | well, er |
12:38:50 | Torne | except in that it will overwrite the irq stack :) |
12:38:52 | JdGordon | pop quiz... what the hell is causing font_unload() to be called on shutdown? |
12:39:06 | JdGordon | *other than font_unload_all()*! |
12:39:16 | Torne | Fun |
12:39:22 | Torne | What you need is a stack unwinder! :p |
12:39:28 | Torne | or a gdb stub :p |
12:39:39 | wodz | :-) |
12:39:41 | JdGordon | indeed |
12:39:50 | Torne | time to suck up to wods! |
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12:40:04 | JdGordon | is fs#12302 working enough? |
12:40:05 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12302 Add backtrace to the panic screen on ARM (patches, new) |
12:40:35 | wodz | JdGordon: it should give you backtrace on data abort (or not at all if unwidnign fails) |
12:40:52 | | Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
12:42:32 | JdGordon | building with it now... fingers crossed it helps :) |
12:42:48 | JdGordon | boo! doesnt build for the clip |
12:43:08 | pamaury | I'm looking at the audio cap of the imx233 and I need some help because I'm not an audio expert. What does CLIPPING_CAP stands for ? It seems to have to do with the volume but I don't understand the link. And how is balance defined ? |
12:43:30 | pamaury | also what PRESCALER_CAP is supposed to stand for ? |
12:43:54 | wodz | pamaury: are you going to unmute f+? |
12:44:16 | pamaury | try to at least ;) |
12:44:19 | wodz | JdGordon: what is the error? |
12:44:31 | JdGordon | the lcd functions arent there for mono dislays |
12:44:44 | JdGordon | and i dont tinhk it will work too well on the tiny screen :) |
12:44:59 | JdGordon | no backtrace :( |
12:45:38 | wodz | there is little I can do about this you know :/ |
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12:48:51 | JdGordon | is clean_shutdown() called by more than just the main thread of shutdown? |
12:49:01 | JdGordon | no, that doesnt make sense either... |
12:49:09 | JdGordon | something is bloody calling font_unload |
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13:00 |
13:06:54 | wodz | JdGordon: how is it possible for clip to not implement lcd_putsf()? |
13:07:17 | JdGordon | it dosnt have the colour functions |
13:09:19 | wodz | what colour? Isn't it simply printing formated string to lcd? |
13:10:02 | | Quit Jerom (Quit: Leaving.) |
13:10:11 | wodz | anyway clip uses very the same UIE as other arms and I don't use any extra lcd function in backtrace() |
13:11:24 | JdGordon | lcd_set_foreground |
13:12:10 | wodz | it's not needed comment it out :-) |
13:12:58 | JdGordon | way ahead of you :p |
13:12:58 | JdGordon | goddamit... who the hell knows how the lru use |
13:13:04 | JdGordon | lru works |
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13:21:38 | kugel | pamaury: arent these capabilities? some targets can do dsp stuff in hardware so we dont use use sw implementations |
13:24:02 | [Saint] | Ahhh the hilarity, "I don't know what you're doing qrong, but its something" :) |
13:24:19 | JdGordon | size_t is unsigned... so new - current isnt ging to work very well if the handle moves backwards :/ |
13:25:04 | kugel | that's not the problem, but ptrdiff_t might be better |
13:26:07 | pamaury | yes, my question is about what these cap mean |
13:26:57 | kugel | I guess the first is that the hw can detect clipping and fix stuff appropriately and the latter means some sort of gain applied |
13:27:20 | kugel | you don't need to defined them just yet if you're unsure |
13:30:02 | JdGordon | *might* be better? size_t is completly wrong |
13:30:10 | JdGordon | but no, that doesnt solve the crash :/ |
13:37:09 | JdGordon | ok, WHAT THE FUCK? apparently the _index field is moves *twice* |
13:37:25 | JdGordon | is gcc screwing up aliasing or something? |
13:37:39 | JdGordon | font.buffer_start == font._index |
13:38:33 | kugel | btw, the crash I mentioned on the font ask is opened as FS #12317 |
13:38:34 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12317 Data abort when triggering buflib compaction using the debug menu (bugs, unconfirmed) |
13:45:14 | JdGordon | font.cache._index is never written to after being initially set (and in the move callback), but somehow when the crash happens it appears to have the wrong bloody value |
13:45:22 | JdGordon | which happens to be 2*diff |
13:49:43 | kugel | I looked into the crash shortly, and the font structure is fine until shortly before the segfault |
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13:50:01 | kugel | it's fine throughout the buflib operation |
13:51:12 | kugel | in the backtrace on my system it would corrupt somewhere at printing the third line of the debug menu |
13:52:16 | JdGordon | fucking hell |
13:52:21 | JdGordon | _short is a short* not a void* |
13:52:24 | JdGordon | or char* |
13:52:36 | JdGordon | so diff is doing pointer arithmatic and mismoving it |
13:53:09 | | Quit Thra11_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
13:53:36 | JdGordon | OK, you really need to add a macro so this doesnt happen again |
13:54:12 | | Quit Stummi (Client Quit) |
13:54:20 | JdGordon | #define FIX_PTR(p, diff) if (p) { (void*)p +=diff; } |
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13:55:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
13:56:00 | kugel | hm, I remember that I looked out for this kind of issue but didn't see non-char*/void* pointers |
13:56:06 | kugel | must have been blind |
13:57:48 | JdGordon | that void* cast isnt working thugh |
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14:00 |
14:01:27 | JdGordon | if (alloc->font.cache._index) |
14:01:27 | JdGordon | { |
14:01:27 | JdGordon | void** foo = (void**)&alloc->font.cache._index; |
14:01:27 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK JdGordon |
14:01:27 | JdGordon | *foo += diff; |
14:01:27 | JdGordon | } |
14:01:30 | JdGordon | lovely :p |
14:01:49 | kugel | why that construct? |
14:03:15 | JdGordon | becuase gcc barfed with just putting (void*) at the front |
14:03:25 | kugel | right. you can't cast the lhs, but you can do p = (void*)p + diff |
14:03:43 | JdGordon | or that |
14:03:56 | JdGordon | should be macro-ised |
14:12:15 | kugel | JdGordon: does that fix the crash? |
14:12:29 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
14:12:29 | * | JdGordon screems at powermngnt.c |
14:14:12 | kugel | [Saint]: ping |
14:14:23 | | Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
14:15:45 | JdGordon | commit http://pastebin.com/WVfGnPyH and close all the font bugs |
14:15:53 | JdGordon | and clip not booting |
14:16:17 | kugel | at work currenty, will have a look later today |
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14:20:53 | pamaury | JdGordon: you found the bug(s) ? What was the problem ? |
14:21:10 | wodz | pamaury: pointer arithmetics :-) |
14:21:41 | JdGordon | well that was a bug, but not the fatal boot one |
14:22:05 | JdGordon | not entirely sure what that was, that paste fixes about 3 or 4 different issues, it could have been any of them |
14:22:12 | JdGordon | my clip is working fine again though |
14:22:16 | JdGordon | so someone commit it |
14:22:35 | JdGordon | or fs#12299 (the patch in the last of my comments) |
14:22:36 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12299 Font Glyph cache is no longer getting saved (bugs, new) |
14:22:45 | pamaury | yes I read about the pointer arithmetics one, a nasty bug :) It's nice to see it fixed. Perhaps we should wait a bit for other people with a clip to test it and commit |
14:22:59 | | Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
14:23:03 | JdGordon | thats what svn is for |
14:23:15 | JdGordon | waiting for testers really is an excerisze in futility |
14:24:42 | wodz | considering the type of a bug I don't think it is needed to test extensively |
14:24:57 | wodz | we will need to fix this anyway |
14:25:01 | pamaury | true |
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14:26:26 | pamaury | JdGordon: (just looking at the patch) is buf still necessary since you use the global setting now ? |
14:26:47 | JdGordon | ? |
14:27:12 | JdGordon | in settings.c? yes |
14:27:24 | kugel | what is the lock in lcd-bitmap-common.c for? |
14:27:50 | JdGordon | font access of the scroll thread |
14:28:13 | JdGordon | freddyb's catch |
14:28:18 | kugel | you dont need to lock there |
14:28:24 | kugel | it's not yielding |
14:28:46 | pamaury | sometimes I think we should have a macro for things like p = (void *)p + delta; this is so common... |
14:28:50 | kugel | and you don't use the pointer except for getting the height |
14:29:07 | JdGordon | then the lock doesnt do anything other than a function call.... |
14:29:12 | JdGordon | remove it if oyu want |
14:29:21 | kugel | it's your patch |
14:29:51 | JdGordon | :) |
14:30:24 | kugel | that makes the entire changes to the locking uneeded |
14:30:37 | kugel | I would welcome if you would update the patch accordingly |
14:32:19 | kugel | also the code duplication is still there (font_shrinkfilename()) |
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14:33:48 | JdGordon | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12299?getfile=24132 take it or leave it. I only fixed these because i felt slightly guilty. im officialy done |
14:35:13 | kugel | wodz: ping |
14:35:17 | wodz | pong |
14:36:04 | kugel | wodz: you didn't answer my question. can you add the backtrace to stock pancif()? |
14:36:39 | wodz | it shouldn't be a problem |
14:36:47 | kugel | and what do you thibnk of the idea to compile it as lib? did you need to make many changes? |
14:37:05 | wodz | dunno - never compiled code as lib |
14:37:14 | kugel | wodz: I mean, can you add this to the patch? :) |
14:37:21 | kugel | (not whether it's possible or not) |
14:37:38 | wodz | I am at work |
14:38:26 | wodz | compiling as lib can have one benefit - it should be possible to compile this code with -Os -mthumb and squize it to 3kB or so |
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14:57:13 | wodz | What instructions modifying PC on arm are actually used? mov, add, sub, ldr, ldrm, b, bl, bx, blx, blj - anything else? |
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14:58:49 | kugel | wodz: how does the backtrace deal with thumb or even interworking? |
14:59:45 | wodz | kugel: it should handle it correctly |
15:00 |
15:01:21 | [Saint] | kugel: yo? |
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15:02:16 | kugel | [Saint]: you didn't update the theme since a while :( |
15:02:59 | [Saint] | Computer issues. |
15:03:01 | | Quit antil33t (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
15:03:13 | [Saint] | And health/time issues. |
15:03:16 | | Quit factor (Quit: Leaving) |
15:03:20 | kugel | oh :( |
15:04:05 | [Saint] | I have some updates ill up on flyspray later tonight, though. |
15:04:37 | kugel | cool |
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15:05:35 | kugel | [Saint]: I wonder if we should have some forum thread about it, to get more people involved |
15:06:28 | kugel | Zagor: ping |
15:07:04 | [Saint] | There was a "hey, look at this/test this" thread but I closed it when I put it up on flyspray. |
15:07:30 | [Saint] | I was actually thinking about mentioning it in the general section again. |
15:07:31 | kugel | I'm more thinking about a "lets collaborate on this" type of thread |
15:07:52 | kugel | although rockbox is probably not widely used enough on the targets in question |
15:08:19 | [Saint] | Ah, right. Sure. Ill have a play with a new thread if I get time tonight. |
15:08:38 | [Saint] | I'd like to get new people onboard to port their own targets :) |
15:09:12 | [Saint] | All the <insert weird resolution here> devices ;) |
15:09:57 | kugel | IMO we should concentrate on few resolutions, to get the design done |
15:10:32 | kugel | your theme is good, but there's still a lot room for improvement and some things are questionable/debatable |
15:12:03 | kugel | I think getting more people working on it can get it leaps forward |
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15:17:15 | [Saint] | Problem is users with theme syntax knowledge ...there aren't any :) |
15:17:54 | kugel | well, that's not a requirement |
15:18:28 | kugel | coding can be done by any one when the design is done |
15:18:54 | [Saint] | Well, no...I'm happy to code up ideas (that are possible) provided its agreeable changes. |
15:19:04 | kugel | the design isn't yet done, and that can be described/discussed with sketches and photoshop |
15:19:24 | [Saint] | So theme syntax knowledge isn't essential, but it'd sure help :) |
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15:23:22 | Zagor | kugel: pong |
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15:30:00 | kugel | [Saint]: IMO GodEater made a damn good point when he said "this is what's wrong with this project |
15:30:03 | kugel | when cabbiev2 was developed there were a LOT of people working on it" |
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15:30:19 | kugel | Zagor: did you look into the zip dependency problem? |
15:30:35 | Zagor | remind me please? |
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15:31:11 | kugel | "$ make zip" -> "nothing to be done for 'zip'" |
15:32:44 | Zagor | for android? when what is changed? |
15:32:57 | Zagor | I just ran make zip in my android build dir and it builds fine |
15:33:25 | kugel | right, but once rockbox.zip is there it's always considered done |
15:33:43 | Zagor | no. I had a zip now. |
15:34:28 | [Saint_] | kugel: Forgive me...but you make it sound as though the lack of people working on it is my fault...? |
15:34:44 | [Saint_] | I've never shut anyone out...and never had a *single* offer. |
15:35:17 | Zagor | kugel: "rm apps/main.o && make zip" builds me a zip every time. |
15:35:29 | [Saint_] | You should know being a developer youself, people (in general) don't give when they can just take. |
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15:36:18 | [Saint_] | My problem was waiting until I had usable ports to post my work, people didn't need to do anything. they had a solution ;) |
15:36:20 | kugel | [Saint]: no, I didn't mean to say that |
15:36:49 | [Saint_] | I should have put them up when they were all half finished instead ;) |
15:37:47 | kugel | Zagor: hm, it's only with NODEPS=1. I was pretty sure it also happened without |
15:38:40 | kugel | either way, NODEPS=1 was meant to restore the old behavior (apk to not depend on zip), that's not what's happening here |
15:39:15 | kugel | [Saint]: as I said, coding neednt to happen at all before collaborating on a theme |
15:40:30 | kugel | 13:36 < [Saint_]> I should have put them up when they were all half finished instead ;) |
15:41:58 | kugel | when cabbiev2 was made, lots of random people kept posting photshop mockups until (after some couple hundreds of posts) the end result was there |
15:43:02 | kugel | [Saint_]: I'm not saying it's your fault, it's our fault as we didn't make use of our expierience with this topic |
15:43:26 | kugel | sorry if I sounded like that |
15:44:53 | [Saint_] | It is partly my fault...I did deliberately restrict discussions to IRC to filter out the "You should add this, that, and several other fantasy things..." from users. |
15:45:16 | [Saint_] | It was very deleiberate of my to get things to the point they are now with almost nothing but developer input. |
15:45:25 | [Saint_] | *of my/of me/ |
15:46:57 | [Saint_] | I didn't feel the look really needed any discussion, I wanted it to look as much like "vanilla" cabbiev2 as possible. |
15:47:10 | [Saint_] | I _think_ nI achieved that. |
15:47:14 | [Saint_] | *I |
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15:58:49 | Zagor | will I be chased with a pitchfork if I say I don't want cabbe as default theme on android? :) |
16:00 |
16:01:42 | AlexP | Not by me :) |
16:01:58 | AlexP | I have nothing against Cabbie, but it just doesn't feel quite right on touchscreen |
16:02:05 | Zagor | so you'll join me running, then? |
16:02:10 | kugel | Zagor: no, I don't know cabbe personally :) |
16:02:12 | AlexP | Even [Saint_] is doing excellent work on it |
16:02:26 | AlexP | Zagor: Yeah, although I sense this is a cunning plan of yours |
16:02:34 | AlexP | Zagor: Now you only need to run faster than me |
16:02:48 | kugel | I think cabbie can be made a nice fit for touchscreens |
16:03:12 | kugel | Zagor: what do you think is wrong with cabbie? |
16:03:28 | AlexP | I'm not totally down on it, and [Saint_]'s work is a lot better for sure |
16:03:58 | [Saint_] | "even [Saint_] "? ;) |
16:03:59 | Zagor | it's hard to put into words. it's too... round ... yellow and ... cartoonish I think. |
16:04:11 | [Saint_] | that implies (to me) I shouldn't be ;) |
16:04:39 | [Saint_] | Zagor: I got crucified for implying that RaaA should have a theme other than cabbie. |
16:04:44 | Zagor | I would like a cooler (as in temperature) theme more focused on elegance and simplicity |
16:04:57 | [Saint_] | and told in no uncertain terms it'd never be comitted |
16:05:10 | AlexP | [Saint_]: Sorry, there is a "though" missing from that sentence :) |
16:05:20 | [Saint_] | basically "its cabbie, or your work is irrelevant" |
16:05:33 | [Saint_] | was what I was told. |
16:05:34 | Zagor | [Saint_]: wow, that's harsh |
16:05:37 | AlexP | Zagor: Yes, I think I tend to agree |
16:05:38 | kugel | Zagor: I found the current cabbie standing for elegance and simplicity already |
16:05:53 | [Saint_] | I do too, personally. |
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16:06:01 | [Saint_] | its grown on me since I've workied on it. |
16:06:13 | [Saint_] | its also "the face of Rockbox" |
16:06:15 | kugel | gold and grey colors are not cartoonish in my book |
16:06:25 | [Saint_] | I don't think we can change it without changing *all* default themes. |
16:06:37 | [Saint_] | ...which is a huge task. |
16:06:52 | Zagor | [Saint_]: I disagree. the look of rockbox on android has very little to do with the look of rockbox on other targets |
16:07:17 | [Saint_] | I wish I'd been told that before I started ;) |
16:08:02 | Zagor | the android app is different on so many levels. in all other cases, we are the masters of the device. replacing "OF crap" with our superior software. |
16:08:06 | [Saint_] | I basically got "Don't break the mold, or the theme your working on will be your own, and never the default" |
16:08:17 | Zagor | on android, we are guests. |
16:08:22 | [Saint_] | so I went for "classic cabbiev2" |
16:08:26 | kugel | Zagor: I tend to disagree. the uniform look is one of rockbox' strength, and I see no apparent reason to do things differently on android |
16:08:43 | [Saint_] | I agree there too. Actually. |
16:08:57 | [Saint_] | this is spooky, I'm agreeing with kugel far too much tonight ;D |
16:09:01 | Zagor | it's only a strength for die-hard rockbox fans. 95% (at least) of android users will have never seen rockbox before |
16:09:25 | Zagor | I am not aiming for the converts. I'm aiming at the people who don't have a clue who we are. |
16:09:29 | AlexP | I think my main problem is not actually so much the theme (or WPS rather), it is mainly the lists etc. |
16:09:37 | [Saint_] | But, when they then discover Rockbox on <other platform> itll have a uniform look. |
16:09:56 | AlexP | I don't see anyone really going Android −−> DAP |
16:10:10 | AlexP | If people are using their phones for music, they aren't going to go the other way |
16:10:11 | [Saint_] | I think RaaA can help bring users to other Rockbox targets, when its "out" |
16:10:16 | kugel | I totally agree we have usability problems, but the design of cabbie (general looks, colors) is fine |
16:10:26 | kugel | RaaA or not |
16:10:46 | Zagor | yeah, this is an opinion thing. we can discuss until we're blue and never agree. I just figured I should mention it :-) |
16:10:51 | [Saint_] | AlexP: they may not know its a viable alternative. |
16:10:56 | [Saint_] | ...just a suggestion. |
16:11:05 | [Saint_] | they may have never heard of Rockbox before. |
16:11:17 | [Saint_] | And choose to dig out the old DAP |
16:11:27 | AlexP | I think the number of people that chose to do that will be miniscule |
16:11:30 | AlexP | But anyway |
16:11:49 | AlexP | I don't think we should worry about the design too much for now, the usability issues are much more important |
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16:12:04 | Zagor | to me, that type of thinking is leaning towards "rockbox dap emulator on android" |
16:12:09 | kugel | fwiw, ABI's review of some android-powert dap mentioned rockbox often and only in good ways |
16:12:17 | Zagor | this is an android app, not "rockbox on android". |
16:12:49 | Zagor | we have to be more attractive than all the other players on the market |
16:12:53 | AlexP | yes |
16:13:10 | kugel | Zagor: yes, that's probably what you see when you are long into rockbox. I dont think newcomers will see it this way |
16:13:57 | Zagor | kugel: you think newcomers will be happy that their app looks like an iphone firmware they have never seen? |
16:14:17 | Zagor | I don't quite understand what you mean |
16:14:38 | kugel | IMO our wps looks better than the stock music app's one |
16:15:23 | * | [Saint_] thinks this too |
16:15:28 | kugel | Zagor: I don't think they will see it as a "hostile firmware" |
16:15:35 | [Saint_] | I cant really comment, though. |
16:15:44 | [Saint_] | its "my baby", and I'm biased, blatantly. |
16:15:46 | kugel | I think what you mean cannot be undone without native widgets anyway |
16:16:08 | Zagor | of course it can |
16:16:10 | pamaury | I *might* shock some people here but the WPS screen is the one I use the least of all |
16:16:39 | [Saint_] | thats 'cos your player has no audio output! :P |
16:17:06 | pamaury | I don't have an android phone but I think it's far more important to be able to quickly find the music you want to play; then you don't look at the screen :) |
16:18:08 | pamaury | The same thing for settings and so: you *don't* want to fight with the UI |
16:18:16 | [Saint_] | if FFWD/REW were enabled for the .sbs (who's our new maintainer, btw?) then we wouldn't *need* the WPS on Android ;) |
16:18:28 | [Saint_] | I like being able to control playback from all listys. |
16:18:32 | [Saint_] | *lists. |
16:18:38 | [Saint_] | Only FFWD/REW is missing. |
16:18:47 | Zagor | [Saint_]: yeah that's a very nice touch |
16:19:12 | [Saint_] | AFAIK, we're the only app doing that, so far. |
16:20:12 | [Saint_] | AA doesn't seem to work in CM, but...that's a very "don't really have to worry about it" issue. |
16:20:21 | [Saint_] | It'd be nice if it did though |
16:20:26 | * | [Saint_] looks at kugel ;) |
16:20:53 | [Saint_] | WHoops. *AA doesnt seem to work in the lockscreen, in CM |
16:21:14 | [Saint_] | playback control works, but there's no album art. |
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16:22:56 | kugel | [Saint_]: AA in the lockscreen uses some internal API. does any other app work with ti? |
16:23:23 | kugel | when I looked at it it needs the app to use the standard database (or at least the playing song to be in it) |
16:24:10 | [Saint_] | Ah, right. Google Music beta, Google Music, and CM's Music app have AA in the lockscreen. |
16:24:38 | [Saint_] | I guess it figures we can't use it, then...bugger. |
16:25:33 | kugel | hm interesting that they work |
16:25:48 | kugel | the setting even says it only works with the builtin app |
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16:26:25 | Zagor | I suppose it works with any app that plays music using the standard system service |
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16:29:28 | othniel | I have a correction to the sansa e280v1 manual. My rockbox player allows me 3 settings: 24k, 22.05, & 16 whereas the manual says only the middle one is permitted. Do I have access to make this change myself? |
16:29:47 | Torne | upload a patch to flyspray |
16:29:53 | othniel | Section 10.2 |
16:30:01 | othniel | 10.3 I mean |
16:30:53 | othniel | I checked the recording and it truly is 16KHz sampling. |
16:31:12 | Torne | er |
16:31:25 | Torne | you mean, when you select 16? or always? |
16:31:38 | othniel | I changed WiKI stuff but dont know how to do flyspray. |
16:31:53 | othniel | I set that as preference on recording settings |
16:31:58 | othniel | Didnt check 24 |
16:32:12 | othniel | but I'm guessing they added 24 and 16 kHz |
16:32:23 | othniel | to the 22.05 that was there originally. |
16:33:59 | Llorean | othniel: You can just go to flypsray and open a bug report that mentions that information, if you can't figure out how to make a patch against the manual to post there. |
16:48:50 | othniel | How do I make a patch against the e200v1 manual? |
16:49:00 | othniel | I'm in Flyspray now. |
16:49:31 | krazykit | you change the source markup in the manual, make a diff, and upload that |
16:49:40 | Llorean | Pretty much the same way you'd make any patch |
16:50:25 | othniel | No checkout? or checkin? I thought this was SVN. |
16:50:43 | Llorean | You check out the code, sure. |
16:50:51 | Llorean | You don't check it in, you're not a committer. You post a patch. |
16:51:09 | othniel | ok where are these instructions? |
16:51:44 | Llorean | On the website, in the for developers section of the docs index, if memory serves. |
16:53:48 | othniel | Is all this necessary even for a change to the e200 manual? |
16:54:44 | Llorean | As compared to what? |
16:55:13 | Llorean | There are basically three steps. Write the text. Convert the text to a patch. Commit the patch. Step 3 must be done by a committer. |
16:55:41 | Llorean | Step 1 *or* step 2 can be the flyspray task. |
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16:59:29 | othniel | I want to document the fact that the sansa e200 target allows recording with a sample rate/frequency of 24, 22.05 and 16 kHz instead of the 22.05 only mentioned currently. So I registered for Flyspray −− I looked for that bug report. Nothing on this topic. So I would do it myself if it were easy. |
17:00 |
17:00:22 | Llorean | I'm confused. |
17:00:35 | Torne | the manual is built from LaTeX source code, stored in the same repository as the Rockbox source |
17:00:47 | Llorean | All you have to do is post a bug report against the e200v1 manual and say "The manual says this (text) but (text) is correct" |
17:00:47 | Torne | So yes, you need to check out the source byf ollowing the developer instructions |
17:00:52 | Llorean | You don't need to post a patch |
17:00:53 | Torne | You don't need to actually built it |
17:01:01 | Llorean | A patch is just preferable since that means someone else doesn't have to make it to commit your change. |
17:01:03 | Torne | Or, yes, just report it as Llorean says. |
17:03:27 | Llorean | Can someone running a recentish current build with playlists on their device answer a question for me? |
17:03:30 | Llorean | I don't have a DAP handy |
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17:05:51 | [Saint] | Depends on the question :) |
17:06:30 | Llorean | Just click select on the playlist in the file browser (not the catalog). Does it execute the playlist, like it used to, or does that invoke "browsing" the playlist now? |
17:06:37 | | Quit benedikt93 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
17:06:48 | Llorean | I swear when the catalog changes were going in I was told repeatedly that selecting it in the browser would still simply invoke it, not browse it. |
17:07:55 | [Saint] | ....fudge. no battery. |
17:08:03 | Llorean | Ah well. Dug up my e200 |
17:08:04 | Llorean | Updating it |
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17:08:31 | [Saint] | I _think_ the browsing behaviour was intended. |
17:08:38 | [Saint] | From memory. |
17:09:08 | [Saint] | The catalogue launches, filebrowser browsed. |
17:09:11 | Torne | Llorean: can't you play it directly by hitting a different button, on targets with enough buttons? |
17:09:18 | Llorean | Torne: I don't know. |
17:09:26 | Torne | i believe targets with dedicated play buttons it plays it |
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17:09:30 | Torne | i don't have a device handy thouhg |
17:09:45 | Llorean | Torne: How would that work? "Play" is resume / return to the file browser on most of those |
17:10:02 | Llorean | Ah well, e200 has that dedicated button, so I can test. |
17:10:03 | * | Torne isn't sure, doesn't use playlists. |
17:10:23 | Torne | anyway, i'm not sure that there is a problem with pressing select twice instead of once.. |
17:10:37 | Llorean | Torne: It doesn't return you to the WPS any more |
17:10:49 | Llorean | After pressing select twice, you then need to press something else, or a combo on low-button players, to get back to it |
17:11:12 | | Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) |
17:11:13 | Llorean | Bafflingly, instead of returning you to the WPS, it returns you to the file browser, with the playlist highlighted. |
17:11:58 | Torne | Huhh. |
17:12:00 | Torne | Okay, that sounds wrong |
17:12:05 | Llorean | Yeah |
17:12:11 | [Saint] | I guess this is why testing is better than arguing about implementation for weeks :) |
17:12:13 | Torne | I expect all actions that start something playing to take me to wps |
17:12:39 | Llorean | [Saint]: It's not a bug. That was part of the implementation description. |
17:12:40 | Torne | since almost all the time, the action that starts soemthing playing will be the last thing i do |
17:13:39 | [Saint] | Llorean: but you've apparently found something wrong with it now? |
17:13:39 | Llorean | This whole feature seems to make it harder to "just use" playlists, in favor of making it easier to do more complex things with it. |
17:14:25 | [Saint] | It favourable the catalogue for "just using" playlists, as it should, IMO. |
17:14:25 | Llorean | [Saint]: I'm not sure. I thought I was told file browser playlist use wouldn't change. |
17:14:36 | Llorean | If it wasn't supposed to change, then there's a bug |
17:14:46 | Llorean | if it was supposed to work in the same in the browser as the catalog, this isn't a bug |
17:14:52 | Llorean | I'm uncertain on that point. |
17:15:03 | [Saint] | I seem to recall the change being intentional. |
17:15:04 | Llorean | The "not returning to the WPS" though isn't a bug, as far as I know, but rather how the catalog is supposed to work. |
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17:16:53 | Llorean | [Saint]: My understanding of the patch, as it was told to me, was that it changes how "Playlist Catalogue" works, but not how filetree accessed playlists work. |
17:18:50 | [Saint] | My understanding was that playlists launched through the catalogue, ans opened to view from the browser. |
17:18:59 | [Saint] | *and |
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17:20:24 | Llorean | [Saint]: Why does that make any sense? The catalog is the only place you can insert songs into other playlists, etc. |
17:20:31 | Llorean | It's the tool for editing them |
17:20:46 | | Quit othniel (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
17:21:22 | [Saint] | Can't you do it via the filebrowser context menu? !? |
17:21:35 | Llorean | Do what? |
17:22:03 | Llorean | I certainly can't play a playlist from it. |
17:22:03 | [Saint] | Add <track(s)> to a playlist. |
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17:22:30 | Llorean | You can add tracks to a playlist *in the catalog* yes. |
17:22:57 | Llorean | I just want to be able to browse to a playlist and hit "select" to play it like we used to be able to. If I want to use the advanced catalog features, I'll put it *in* the catalog. |
17:23:37 | CGEffex | Hello, I have a question about my mp3 player, and if a port could be made for it... |
17:23:58 | Llorean | CGEffex: Ports are pretty much made by people who own the player, and are interested in doing a lot of hard work. |
17:24:23 | CGEffex | Oh...I'm not much of a coder... |
17:24:53 | Llorean | CGEffex: It takes a lot of interest for a port to happen. Typically, that means someone who owns the player and really wants that specific player to run Rockbox badly enough. |
17:24:56 | Zagor | what player is it? |
17:25:04 | CGEffex | You see, before I got my walkman nwz-e344 one of the specs I really liked was it's ability to record off fm radio |
17:25:26 | CGEffex | Come time I get the player, it has the radio but no option to record! |
17:25:30 | * | [Saint] grumbles at JdGordon |
17:25:57 | [Saint] | I just cleared MT configuration, and created a new playlist ...where did it put it? |
17:26:05 | [Saint] | Exactly the dir a stated. |
17:26:05 | CGEffex | I've had it for a while now, but recently I've really been wishing I could somehow get the ability to record the radio off of it |
17:26:31 | [Saint] | "/.rockbox/Playlists" |
17:26:52 | Torne | CGEffex: it's possible the hardware can't actaully do that at all :) and no, there is no port for that |
17:26:53 | CGEffex | in [my eyes] and easy feature to add through rockbox would be the ability to record what comes off the radio... |
17:27:15 | Torne | If you do a whole port for the device, and the hardware actually supports it, then recording the radio is trivial, yes :) |
17:27:19 | CGEffex | Like, you don't need a microphone to record your computers speaker output |
17:27:24 | CGEffex | you can do it internally |
17:27:26 | Torne | but expect to put dozens/hundreds of hours into porting rockbox first |
17:27:33 | [Saint] | Llorean: assuming you've not set it elsewhere ...where is your playlist catalogue dir? |
17:27:39 | Torne | and it is possible that the player can't do it anyway :) |
17:27:54 | CGEffex | And it's possible I'm not actually a coder anyway... |
17:27:58 | CGEffex | :( |
17:27:58 | [Saint] | */Playlists or /.rockbox/Playlists |
17:28:05 | Llorean | CGEffex: It actually depends. The radio audio may be wired directly through to the audio output, without passing through any part the software can pick up. |
17:28:16 | CGEffex | Oh... |
17:28:16 | Llorean | [Saint]: Where do I check that? |
17:28:45 | [Saint] | Just check the filesystem. |
17:28:59 | [Saint] | See what exists. |
17:29:16 | Llorean | If I try to save the dynamic playlist it wants to save in /Playlists |
17:29:22 | Llorean | Are you using RaaA or on-device? |
17:29:32 | [Saint] | RAAA |
17:29:36 | Llorean | It may be different there |
17:29:46 | [Saint] | I suspect that shouldn't differ. |
17:29:55 | Llorean | I just feel like I remember it being mentioned that it would be different there. |
17:29:59 | Torne | You say that, but we need to remap paths on android |
17:30:01 | Llorean | I'm not sure why |
17:30:03 | [Saint] | I can't account for it, I cleared my. Cfg |
17:30:04 | Torne | because otherwise lots of things would try and access / |
17:30:06 | Torne | or /.rockbox |
17:30:07 | Torne | or similar |
17:30:12 | Torne | which are not writable |
17:30:22 | | Quit semitones_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
17:30:32 | Torne | I suspect that our filesystem code is doing something clever to remap stuff to be under /mnt/sdcard/.rockbox |
17:30:42 | Torne | and nobody thought to handle playlists as a special case |
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17:30:54 | [Saint] | Hmmm. |
17:30:59 | | Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
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17:31:54 | [Saint] | Well, it wants to put things in /.rockbox/Playlists for me. |
17:32:17 | Llorean | I thought it was /Rockbox/ on RaaA |
17:32:21 | [Saint] | (Which would actually be /rockbox/Playlists" |
17:32:24 | [Saint] | ) |
17:32:53 | | Quit petur (Quit: *plop*) |
17:33:04 | [Saint] | Llorean: it is, but configuration files still refer to .rockbox |
17:33:09 | | Join keyb_gr [0] (~chatzilla@p4FF02B5F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
17:33:37 | [Saint] | Which points to /mnt/sdcard/rockbox |
17:33:50 | Torne | well, /sdcard/rockbox actually ;) |
17:33:53 | | Quit hilbert (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) |
17:33:59 | Torne | android's fs layout is full of hilarious symlinks |
17:34:08 | Llorean | I guess it'd be impolite to just clutter the root of the sdcard on a multiuse device with folders like "Playlists" |
17:34:33 | Torne | I don't think that's really true |
17:34:39 | [Saint] | Why? Lots of other apps do it, even Google. |
17:34:43 | Torne | Android itself has a bunch of root directories on there, like Music, Pictures, etc |
17:34:48 | Torne | Playlists seems perfectly reasonable |
17:34:48 | Llorean | Torne: Yeah |
17:34:55 | Torne | it contains standard playlist files in a stnadard format |
17:34:59 | Torne | which other apps could use perfectly fine |
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17:35:06 | Llorean | I guess that's true for Playlists, actually |
17:35:23 | [Saint] | Listen drops a com.Foo.bar dir in /sdcard |
17:35:38 | * | Llorean doesn't know what Listen is. |
17:35:39 | [Saint] | Qhen it could easily put it elsewhere. |
17:35:50 | Llorean | Most of my apps seem to put things in /sdcard/data/(appname) |
17:36:26 | [Saint] | As it should...Listen is a Google podcast-esque kinda thing. |
17:37:00 | [Saint] | (That's buggy as hell :)) |
17:38:19 | [Saint] | RaaA should /probably/ use /sdcard/data/rockbox as well...if we actually care about "clean" sdcards. |
17:38:47 | Torne | We shouldn't use /sdcard at all, really |
17:38:52 | [Saint] | Ans not drop dies hither and thither. |
17:38:53 | Torne | The paths are not actually guaranteed to be fixed |
17:38:55 | Torne | or sensible. |
17:39:07 | [Saint] | True. |
17:39:08 | Torne | some andorid devices now have /sdcard-ext incidentally :) |
17:39:10 | Zagor | how come the menu option was called "Playlists catalogue" rather than just "Playlists", btw? |
17:39:21 | Zagor | so we could argue the spelling? ;) |
17:39:23 | Torne | because they have internal eMMC and *also* a card slot |
17:39:43 | Torne | So yeh. We should be calling the magic android APIs that give you the right places to put data |
17:39:53 | Torne | Unfortunately they don't really give us the info we want :) |
17:40:03 | Llorean | Zagor: Because it doesn't find them itself, so they must be manually added, I guess? |
17:40:06 | Torne | how to resolve this problem: er, yeah, dunno |
17:40:55 | * | [Saint] cracks the google-whip |
17:41:00 | Zagor | Llorean: no I mean the actual text shown in our top menu. why "catalogue?" it doesn't match "Files" for instance. |
17:41:01 | [Saint] | Fit it! |
17:41:09 | * | Llorean would like a simpler playlists interface, where adding/modifying playlists is activated through the context menu on them, selecting a playlist just plays it, and "Playlists" isn't anything special other than being a shortcut to a folder. |
17:41:43 | * | [Saint] could think of a better time to gave brought that up....:) |
17:41:59 | [Saint] | Like, ~4 or 5 weeks ago. |
17:42:04 | Llorean | [Saint]: I've said that several times over the years. |
17:42:31 | Zagor | it's always a good time to make things better |
17:42:38 | Llorean | [Saint]: I objected to the patch but was told my objection didn't count. |
17:42:46 | [Saint] | But not during the development of the catalogue? Nor checking for regressions? ;) |
17:42:59 | [Saint] | Regressions always matter. |
17:43:04 | Llorean | What regressions? Apparently everything's working as intended. |
17:43:13 | [Saint] | Differences of opinion not so much. |
17:43:16 | n1s | the pl catalogue was added years ago |
17:43:35 | n1s | and it always seemed a rather obscure feature to me |
17:44:01 | Llorean | n1s: It is nice to be able to context menu on an arbitrary file, and then add it to an arbitrary playlist. |
17:44:07 | [Saint] | Llorean: if it doesn't work as it used to...which you suggest, without good reason to, I'd call that a regression. |
17:44:31 | | Quit keyb_gr (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
17:44:39 | Llorean | [Saint]: The intent of the patch was to make a bunch of things not work as they used to. |
17:44:54 | Llorean | [Saint]: So, that goes into "differences of opinion" as to what old behaviours should be kept |
17:45:11 | n1s | Llorean: yeah, that sounds nice if you do playlists, i didn't know it could do that |
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17:48:02 | Llorean | It's one of those cases where "let's stop and look for a well rounded solution" was dismissed with "stop objecting, this idea works okay, let's go" I think. The fear that if we stop and think, nothing will ever get done. |
17:48:38 | [Saint] | Which in fairness often happens. |
17:48:50 | Llorean | And? |
17:48:59 | Llorean | I think "doing nothing" is better than "doing the wrong thing, then having to fix it later" |
17:49:14 | n1s | to some, that is progress |
17:49:17 | [Saint] | ...nothing gets done. Or things that were done rot. |
17:50:31 | [Saint] | Having to fix a misguided implementation makes it more likely the right implementation will get in, that waiting for the right implementation before comitting. |
17:50:46 | [Saint] | Not always appropriate, but, ...yeah. |
17:51:03 | Llorean | I agree that that might be the case, but I don't agree with that as being a good way to treat other developers, and users. |
17:51:17 | [Saint] | If its I |
17:51:35 | [Saint] | *immediately after a release..."meh". |
17:51:47 | | Part Zagor |
17:51:56 | Llorean | Bugs are one thing. Bad features are another. |
17:52:03 | n1s | [Saint]: as long as fixing the thing doesn't change the UI because then it's impossiblew |
17:52:09 | [Saint] | Oh, certainly. |
17:52:28 | Llorean | If a good feature might have a lot of bugs. This happens. A bad feature shouldn't be committed to prompt someone else to write a good version of it. |
17:52:38 | [Saint] | I learnt that the hard way. |
17:53:04 | [Saint] | It'll be a cold cold day in hell before I bring up a simple ui change again :) |
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18:07:16 | * | fatline hello world |
18:10:51 | [Saint] | Hello fatline...? :) |
18:11:07 | fatline | hi :) |
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19:08:12 | chaser | hi all |
19:08:28 | [Saint] | O/ |
19:09:53 | chaser | could anyone please tell me something technical about rockbox |
19:10:47 | [Saint] | Anything in particular? |
19:10:50 | [Saint] | :) |
19:11:03 | [Saint] | Or just something random? |
19:11:44 | chaser | something partcicular and random hehe |
19:12:01 | chaser | is there any development to playback 24/192 flac? |
19:12:20 | chaser | and can a compile be seen to be rockbox by looking at the hex? |
19:13:00 | Llorean | Nobody who wants 24/192 playback has stepped forward to do the work, as far as I know. |
19:13:13 | Llorean | What do you mean by the second question? It seems confusing. |
19:13:33 | chaser | I have a Colorfly C4 and I just wanted to know if the source was Rockbox |
19:14:05 | [Saint] | I assure you it isn't :) |
19:14:23 | [Saint] | At least, no official port. |
19:14:30 | chaser | mmmmm |
19:14:45 | chaser | this is why i wonered if there was a hex on the binary that may show it being rockbox |
19:15:13 | chaser | I have a download of the firwamre |
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19:15:16 | Llorean | Rockbox is open source. They could remove or change anything they wanted. |
19:15:24 | chaser | true |
19:15:29 | chaser | thought they may be stupoid hehe |
19:15:42 | chaser | and left it it |
19:15:45 | chaser | in |
19:15:48 | Llorean | You'd basically need to actually understand what the code does, and compare algorithms in areas that they're unlikely to have changed, etc. |
19:15:50 | saratoga | we do support 192/24 flac |
19:16:10 | [Saint] | Ask for the sources...if its using rockbox code, they'd need to give you the sources the used. |
19:16:21 | Torne | We resample it moderately badly though, no? |
19:16:23 | saratoga | i added it a while ago |
19:16:23 | [Saint] | *they used. |
19:16:24 | Torne | and it may not decode fast enough |
19:16:28 | Torne | depending on cpuy |
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19:17:02 | chaser | fast cpu |
19:17:10 | chaser | mmmm okay |
19:17:24 | [Saint] | Llorean: you forgot the simple "ask them" route :) |
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19:18:32 | chaser | I asked and they said it doesnt support |
19:18:50 | chaser | but wont tell me if it does or doesnt use rockbox |
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19:19:05 | Torne | That's definitely not rockbox |
19:19:12 | Torne | well, probably not |
19:19:13 | saratoga | they dont use rockbox |
19:19:17 | Torne | they would've had to modify a huge amount of stuff :) |
19:19:31 | Torne | since it uses a crazy decoder chip thingy by the look of it |
19:19:44 | chaser | yeah |
19:19:45 | [Saint] | Right...Rockbox has no code specific to that device, unless it shares some hardware with another similar player we do support. |
19:19:50 | chaser | high performance DAC and SRC |
19:20:09 | Torne | no, the actual decoder |
19:20:14 | chaser | oh sorry |
19:20:23 | Torne | doesn't look like it's using a general purpose CPU for it |
19:20:26 | chaser | just so annoying it doesnt support flac |
19:20:33 | Torne | and the only decoder we've ever supported is the ancient one int he Archos that only supports mp3 |
19:21:03 | Torne | well that's what you get for buying a pretentious piece of poser hardware :) |
19:21:08 | Torne | inferior software support |
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19:21:39 | chaser | lol thanks Torne :-) |
19:21:45 | Bagder | http://colorfly.colorful.cn/brand_story.html <= lots of fun audiophile mumbo jumbo there |
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19:22:06 | chaser | sound great with 24/192 .wavs |
19:22:33 | Bagder | "the original audio must pass through 8 modes from input to output for the sake of getting the perfect voice" |
19:22:58 | saratoga | 14/192 is stupid anyway, so no surprise the thing is crap |
19:23:05 | saratoga | 24 |
19:23:32 | saratoga | clueless customers means bad hardware |
19:26:02 | chaser | too much noise at 192 |
19:26:40 | chaser | and 176 |
19:26:57 | saratoga | huh? |
19:27:15 | [Saint] | "The audio must pass through 17 layers of concentrated unicorn stem cells, and be bombarded with neutrinos for the perfect voice..." |
19:27:17 | saratoga | noise has nothing to do with sampling rate |
19:27:57 | * | [Saint] loves audiophiles |
19:28:04 | saratoga | 96 and 192 are dumb because they dont do anything useful |
19:28:07 | [Saint] | "Loves" |
19:28:26 | chaser | it adds noise when sampling at that frequncy |
19:28:33 | chaser | 88 is the best I find |
19:28:35 | saratoga | just marketing crap for people with more money then sense |
19:28:43 | chaser | higher numbers means nothing |
19:29:20 | [Saint] | Yeah...unicorn stem cells is where the good audio is at. |
19:30:24 | [Saint] | And neutrinos, so the sound travels faster than light, so you hear the betterness faster :) |
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19:39:51 | amiconn | JdGordon: Where can I find that patch? |
19:40:15 | * | amiconn may be able to test today, but later (maybe in 3 hours or so) |
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19:52:11 | * | amiconn has frequent hangs on swcodec too, specifically H1x0 |
19:52:41 | amiconn | Build is not fully up to date yet though |
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20:03:44 | telliott | I just got a 160GB iPod Classic and I'm reading about EmCORE |
20:04:44 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
20:04:57 | [Saint] | Although it might seem so emCORE and rockbox aren't related projects. |
20:05:16 | [Saint] | The classic is still officially "unusable" |
20:06:06 | telliott | That sucks. I guess I'll wait then |
20:06:23 | [Saint] | Mostly due to lack of dual-boot, and no rockbox bootloader, and the non-trivial installation method. |
20:07:05 | [Saint] | Its certainly usable, just don't expect a tonne of support yet ;) |
20:07:05 | telliott | Do you know what options the emcore boot loader procides? |
20:07:40 | [Saint] | Basically nothing except booting rockbox and apple's disk mode. |
20:07:41 | telliott | I have been using Rockbox for years on my Archos |
20:07:52 | [Saint] | Unless you're an advanced user. |
20:08:35 | telliott | I did see a video of someone using a hacked version of the iPod software |
20:08:58 | [Saint] | EMCORE is a VERY powerful tool...a lot more powerful than an average user needs it to be, really. |
20:09:36 | [Saint] | Its the only way yo boot Rockbox presently, though. |
20:09:38 | TheSeven | [Saint]: wrong, it doesn't even boot disk mode |
20:09:51 | TheSeven | just rockbox, umsboot, console, tools, and i think that's it |
20:09:51 | telliott | One thing I hate most about the ipod software is the distorted album art |
20:10:14 | [Saint] | Oh? I thought disk mode was bootable from EMCORE on the classics now. |
20:10:19 | [Saint] | My mistake. |
20:10:23 | TheSeven | nope, no apple code at all |
20:10:35 | TheSeven | i'd really like to know why it fails though |
20:11:18 | telliott | I finally baught a classic since the current model will most likely be the last |
20:11:31 | TheSeven | yeah, seems like that |
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20:12:36 | telliott | I guess I'll wait till the developers say Rockbox is working fully |
20:12:49 | [Saint] | It is working. |
20:13:15 | [Saint] | "Unusable" is simply a classification. |
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20:13:31 | telliott | Vool |
20:13:34 | telliott | Cool |
20:13:37 | [Saint] | Due to it not meeting certain criteria. |
20:14:03 | [Saint] | It's certainly usable though. |
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20:14:32 | telliott | So can I install the emcore loader and rockbox without losing my music? |
20:14:43 | [Saint] | No. |
20:14:57 | [Saint] | You'll need to back it up first. |
20:15:05 | TheSeven | installing emcore will wipe absolutely everything that's on the ipod and completely remove the apple firmware |
20:15:11 | [Saint] | The install formats the disk. |
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20:15:32 | [Saint] | So you'll lose iTunes compatibility also. |
20:15:38 | [Saint] | If you care. |
20:15:53 | telliott | I don't care about losing the ipod software. I love Rockbox. |
20:16:18 | [Saint] | After installation, as far as iTunes is concerned its no longer an iPod. |
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20:16:33 | [Saint] | Just a big removable disk. |
20:17:14 | telliott | anny current issues with the rockbox software itself? |
20:17:26 | [Saint] | Plenty :) |
20:17:42 | [Saint] | Nothing serious, though. |
20:18:02 | [Saint] | Battery life on the classic sucks a bit...that's all really. |
20:19:20 | telliott | I may wait a bit. I'm using MediaMonkey to convert flac files to mp3 and load my ipod. It's taken a couple of evenings overnight |
20:19:56 | | Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection) |
20:20:56 | telliott | [Saint], thanks for the info |
20:20:57 | [Saint] | Just don't bother and use flac on rockbox :) |
20:21:49 | telliott | I like high bitrate vbr mp3 files for portable use. I can fit more on the drive |
20:21:53 | [Saint] | No problem. |
20:22:49 | telliott | I'm currently encoding vbr at -v1 |
20:23:07 | [Saint] | Quite a few users have had success with putting large capacity ssd disks in the Classic. |
20:23:21 | [Saint] | Expensive, but worth it. |
20:23:38 | telliott | I'm sure but I'm not ready for that yet |
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20:24:33 | telliott | What is the largest drie now that will fit in the slim classic case? |
20:24:40 | telliott | drive |
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20:27:35 | wodz | Torne: does it look ok for you? http://pastebin.com/Lmu2xhtt 1)it changes mode to sys 2) allocates separate stack for svc/abt/undf 3) makes SWI explicitly forbiden now. |
20:27:51 | | Quit chaser (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)) |
20:28:13 | wodz | Torne: If that's ok I'll go and modify the rest of Crt0.S files and post a patch on FS |
20:29:23 | wodz | I quickly tested that it boots on my rk27xx |
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21:43:34 | MeAgain | Hiya, is there an RSS feed or the SVN changes? |
21:43:43 | MeAgain | Cant seem to find one on the website |
21:45:33 | Bagder | http://rss.gmane.org/messages/excerpts/gmane.comp.systems.archos.rockbox.cvs perhaps |
21:45:55 | y4n | there is no RSS feed for the new stable versions |
21:45:58 | y4n | which is a shame |
21:46:02 | Bagder | see http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.systems.archos.rockbox.cvs for alternative feeds |
21:46:06 | gevaerts | Or http://cia.vc/stats/project/rockbox/.rss |
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21:52:11 | MeAgain | perfect, thank you gevaerts |
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22:00 |
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22:05:11 | n1s | there are some flac files with huge block sizes that we do not currently support, we could though, at least on targets with large codec buffers, although, those files are rather uncommon |
22:05:41 | n1s | i don't think the official encoder creates them unless it's explicitely told to |
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23:13:50 | * | pixelma thought Rockbox supported a few of the simpler compressed WAV formats like IMA ADPCM on swcodec for a while now (but is laaate to the discussion) |
23:14:17 | gevaerts | pamaury: isn't that only for playback? |
23:14:34 | pamaury | gevaerts: what ? |
23:15:07 | pixelma | oh, maybe I missed he meant for recording only |
23:15:20 | pixelma | pamaury: I guess that was for me |
23:15:23 | gevaerts | pamaury: oh, sorry. I mis-tabbed... |
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23:16:36 | bertrik | pamaury, half an hour loss runtime off 15h isn't *that* bad |
23:17:26 | pamaury | no, but is there any gain on something else ? |
23:18:12 | bertrik | higher max volume, slightly better audio quality and a strong reduction in clicks |
23:19:52 | keyb_gr | ...Specifically, power-off pop noise. Always bugged me. |
23:19:56 | bertrik | and it's the setting the OF uses :) |
23:20:41 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
23:20:59 | keyb_gr | I presume Sandisk's engineers chose 2.5 V as a good compromise between pop noise suppression and loss of runtime. |
23:21:43 | bertrik | I didn't really notice the power-off pop to be honest, but maybe it's my headphones |
23:22:00 | bertrik | or maybe a habit of taking off the headphones before power-off |
23:22:39 | keyb_gr | It never was a big issue for me on my low-impedance SE420s, but quite annoying on HD590s (100 ohm) or external speakers. |
23:23:16 | keyb_gr | So definitely a function of load impedance. |
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23:25:49 | wodz | lyre_proto1 crt0.S is completely different from our other startup codes and moreover this target doesn't compile at all |
23:26:10 | pamaury | well I agree half an hour is not too much, if it brings better audio quality and reduce annoyance |
23:26:42 | pamaury | wodz: different in which way ? |
23:27:13 | bertrik | I guess it once did compile, but it's not part of the build system, so it it breaks nobody notices |
23:28:01 | pamaury | and nobody cares about it ;) |
23:28:40 | wodz | pamaury: all arm crt0.S are derived from one of two 'designs' and are quite similar. Lyre's one is differently structured. |
23:28:52 | wodz | Heh it isn't even used |
23:29:08 | bertrik | problem solved!? |
23:29:11 | pamaury | but a ctr0.S can't be *that* different, you basically always do the same thing |
23:29:26 | pamaury | it shouldn't be in svn if it's unused, it's misleading |
23:30:11 | wodz | SOURCE refers to this file but compilation pics firmware/target/arm/crt0.S |
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23:35:07 | keyb_gr | How's runtime on AMSv2 looking on RB vs. OF anyway? Last time I checked RB was slightly ahead, wasn't it? I guess that was due to lower analog supply... |
23:36:09 | keyb_gr | BTW, when reading this thread... |
23:36:18 | keyb_gr | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,28339.0.html |
23:36:44 | keyb_gr | ...I wondered how USB voltage threshold is set up on AMSv1. |
23:36:57 | bertrik | we don't have much data about OF runtime, but the one we do have shows a huge improvement in runtime over the OF |
23:38:36 | keyb_gr | Huge? Hmm. Using Vorbis or FLAC, sure, but plain MP3? |
23:39:01 | bertrik | and somehow we're doing worse on the clip v2 |
23:41:36 | bertrik | yes, mp3 |
23:42:18 | keyb_gr | That's odd. ClipV2 should be more or less like a Clip+ minus µSD, and different radio chip. |
23:42:37 | bertrik | myabe the radio chip was not turned off ... :| |
23:43:04 | keyb_gr | Kinda unlikely though, isn't it? |
23:43:20 | | Join liar [0] (~liar@clnet-p09-185.ikbnet.co.at) |
23:43:51 | keyb_gr | Ah, now I remember where the big runtime advantage was observed: With external µSD! |
23:44:06 | keyb_gr | OF seems really bad there. |
23:46:38 | amiconn | Not-turned-off chips aren't that unlikely if you don't have hw documentation, and they can be quite a battery drain |
23:47:19 | * | amiconn is reminded of the OTG chip on the H300 |
23:50:10 | keyb_gr | Clips have either Si4702 or RDA5802 tuners though, both of which are at least reasonably well documented. |
23:50:51 | keyb_gr | Looking at SansaRuntime, it seems ClipV1 is the one with shortened runtime. |
23:51:02 | amiconn | Even if every chip has public documentation, there's still the hook up that might cause headaches |
23:55:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
23:55:44 | bertrik | AMSv2 still uses 1-bit instead of 4-bit mode for sd cards |
23:56:30 | bertrik | and tries to use high-speed mode (max 50 MHz instead of 25 MHz) to make up for it, but only some sd cards support that (the internal sd doesn't) |
23:56:49 | bertrik | AMSv1 I mean |
23:58:06 | bertrik | Also AMSv1 uses a bit of an awkward boosting scheme. It boosts to 248 MHz, but this requires the voltage to be boosted too. |
23:58:13 | | Quit ReimuHakurei (Remote host closed the connection) |
23:58:30 | keyb_gr | Wouldn't it be a good idea to disable highspeed mode on the ClipV1 then? With no µSD and all. |