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| 00:45:09 | | Part Zagor |
| 00:45:20 | freddyb | Zagor: I don't see why not. That very low hanging fruit. |
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| 01:07:39 | JdGordon | kugel: you broke skin fonts |
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| 01:25:42 | JdGordon | fs#12337 :/ |
| 01:25:43 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12337 r30773 breaks all skin fonts (bugs, new) |
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| 02:00 |
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| 02:33:28 | chkktri | http://tails.bloodheaven.net/Temp%20folder/20111018_003.jpg |
| 02:33:35 | chkktri | what the hell? |
| 02:34:00 | chkktri | is that some kind of finger friendly interface? |
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| 02:38:56 | JdGordon | chkktri: your pic isnt loading but yeah... new broken feature |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:06:28 | JdGordon | chkktri: which target is that? it looks pretty bad |
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| 03:20:11 | chkktri_ | it's cowon d 2 |
| 03:20:21 | chkktri_ | d2* |
| 03:20:40 | chkktri_ | pic is still not loading? |
| 03:26:43 | JdGordon | no, it loaded |
| 03:28:37 | chkktri_ | so, is it toggleable? |
| 03:34:57 | JdGordon | there should be a setting somewhere |
| 03:39:30 | chkktri_ | can't find anything v_v |
| 03:42:14 | [Saint] | Gah! |
| 03:42:19 | [Saint] | It went in...didn't it. |
| 03:42:26 | [Saint] | bah, yep :-S |
| 03:43:14 | chkktri_ | hm? |
| 03:43:34 | [Saint] | this patch that's apparently broken the lists for you. |
| 03:44:03 | [Saint] | Or, the fonts rather. I scammed through the logs to find the image you're talking of, but I must have missed it. |
| 03:44:34 | [Saint] | you _should_ be able to toggle it in the desplay menu |
| 03:44:43 | | Join factor [0] (~factor@74.197.205.204) |
| 03:44:43 | [Saint] | (from what I remember of the patch) |
| 03:44:51 | mc2739 | chkktri_: the setting is under System->Display->Touchscreen Settings->Line Padding in Lists |
| 03:44:55 | [Saint] | *display menu |
| 03:46:57 | [Saint] | chkktri_: Is the line selector using the foreground colour the theme? |
| 03:47:20 | [Saint] | that looks horrible (to me) and I would hope its not a result of this patch. |
| 03:51:47 | chkktri_ | oh |
| 03:51:50 | chkktri_ | thanks |
| 03:52:05 | chkktri_ | no that's not a result of patch |
| 03:52:29 | [Saint] | Hum...nice. :-S |
| 03:52:44 | [Saint] | chkktri_: did turning it off fix the line selector? |
| 03:53:04 | chkktri_ | yes |
| 03:53:05 | chkktri_ | thanks |
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| 03:53:56 | * | [Saint] wonders how that wasn't noticed during the testing this patch (apparently really didn't) recieve(d) |
| 03:54:06 | Llorean | What wasn't noticed? |
| 03:54:10 | Llorean | That it defaults to "on" or? |
| 03:54:27 | [Saint] | and also why it seems sane for this to default on! |
| 03:54:37 | chkktri_ | ? |
| 03:54:42 | [Saint] | Llorean: that it totally borks the line selector. |
| 03:54:54 | Llorean | He said it's *not* a result of the patch |
| 03:55:20 | Llorean | What's "borked" other than the line spacing? |
| 03:55:27 | [Saint] | Oh...whoops. I totally missread that. |
| 03:55:37 | [Saint] | nevermind, then. |
| 03:55:41 | Llorean | I don't think it's sane to have it default to widely spaced, but as a usability feature I can definitely see how someone might argue it's sane to default to on. |
| 03:55:44 | * | [Saint] skulks away. |
| 03:56:03 | * | [Saint] returns |
| 03:56:14 | Llorean | Since if you *need* it to be able to interact meaningfully due to cramped screen or whatever, having it on makes it easier to turn off, while having it off makes it harder to turn on. |
| 03:56:25 | [Saint] | Llorean: Yeah...I dont think it should default on for anything other than the fallback. |
| 03:56:39 | [Saint] | its arguable that the theme author accounted for list spacing already. |
| 03:56:53 | [Saint] | well...its not arguable, really. they likely did. |
| 03:56:54 | JdGordon | the patch completly breaks themeing |
| 03:57:04 | JdGordon | but.. yeah, not a big deal apparently! :p |
| 03:57:23 | [Saint] | Yeah...I would have been a LOT more vocal if I saw it go in. |
| 03:57:32 | [Saint] | I'm...not amused. |
| 03:57:35 | Llorean | I would say usability trumps themeing, and you can turn it off. |
| 03:57:58 | [Saint] | You can also turn it *on*, and magic to detect the fallback would have been easy to add. |
| 03:58:12 | Llorean | Then add it, and default it to disabled? |
| 03:58:12 | [Saint] | the fallback is the only case where this really matters. |
| 03:58:39 | [Saint] | Hahahaha...good luck, I love the sentiment. I could post all the patches in the world for that. |
| 03:58:49 | [Saint] | I sorely doubt it'd get committed. |
| 03:59:05 | Llorean | Then post one, and complain about it not getting committed after you've posted it, rather than hypothesizing that it wouldn't? |
| 03:59:15 | [Saint] | I raised my views on this (as did others) before commit. |
| 03:59:29 | [Saint] | ...it wasn't listened to, at all. |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:02 | [Saint] | Even kugel mentioned that this is really needed for the fallback, but it still seemed "sane" to default on for all. |
| 04:00:20 | [Saint] | Its seven (probably more? ;)) kinds of stoopid IMO |
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| 04:01:40 | JdGordon | you're wasting your energy |
| 04:01:55 | [Saint] | The fallback is TOTALLY unusable without this, I'll admit that. And its really needed there. But if a user theme, or the default is unusable without this, then its the themes fault. |
| 04:02:03 | Llorean | In my opinion a feature like that would make the most sense if it were something like "space out lines if they're less than X height" where X is a physical measurement based on DPI rather than a pixel count |
| 04:02:24 | Llorean | In which case, defaulting to on would make perfect sense. |
| 04:02:25 | [Saint] | I see it useful if a user wants to *increse* the spacing a theme offers, optionally...but it *shouldn't* default on for user themes or the defautl. |
| 04:03:05 | JdGordon | it defaults to "broken" on user themes |
| 04:03:34 | [Saint] | Yeah...dammit. I really wish I noticed the "I'm committing this" mail. |
| 04:03:40 | [Saint] | was there even one? |
| 04:03:57 | JdGordon | a big thread |
| 04:04:11 | JdGordon | to which there was plenty of "this isnt the way to do it" replies :/ |
| 04:04:21 | [Saint] | Oh, yeah. I know about the thread. But apparently I missed the "this is going in now" mail. |
| 04:05:38 | [Saint] | Bwahahahah....240x320 theme (of mine, for RaaA) gets 4 main menu items with this patch ;) |
| 04:05:56 | [Saint] | they used to all fit. |
| 04:06:30 | * | [Saint] will add the config magic to turn this off in his themes. |
| 04:06:54 | Llorean | Looking back at the thread, I don't see particularly much opposition. At least as many for as against. |
| 04:07:34 | [Saint] | I'm totally for the patch. Just not the default. |
| 04:07:48 | [Saint] | I've always been for it, I just think its insane that it defaults on. |
| 04:08:20 | [Saint] | it defaults on to catch the fallback theme, but, magic to detect a user theme didn't load could easily have been added. |
| 04:08:27 | JdGordon | noone (including myself) is againt the feature. just the implemnetation was very rong on about 15 different levels |
| 04:08:45 | Llorean | Ah, you've taken me off ignore? |
| 04:09:10 | JdGordon | surprise! |
| 04:09:32 | Llorean | Anyway, nobody really talked much about the implementation other than a discussion over the difference between skinned and unskinned lists, and one group saying "all lists should be skinned lists" and another saying "but until they are, this will fix issues" |
| 04:09:56 | Llorean | And as Torne mentioned, skins aren't DPI aware yet. |
| 04:10:27 | Llorean | So it seems like there's a path forward to removing this if someone really feels like it needs to be removed. |
| 04:10:42 | [Saint] | no one feels it needs to be removed. |
| 04:10:46 | [Saint] | Just a sane default. |
| 04:11:06 | [Saint] | Or rather, the appropriate magic to detect when its needed. |
| 04:11:42 | [Saint] | which, just to be an ass, I think I'll add...if even *I* can do it, then something is *seriously* wrong with the way it was implemented ;) |
| 04:12:22 | [Saint] | I'm about 99% sure the fallback case could be detected and this set to on in that case. |
| 04:12:44 | [Saint] | ie. "when its needed" |
| 04:12:54 | JdGordon | if it was done using the skin engine *like ti should have been* then yes |
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| 04:14:35 | Llorean | [Saint]: It's also needed when loading 'bad' themes. While it's the fault of the theme author, it is reasonable to want to be able to just switch to a better theme. |
| 04:14:55 | Llorean | I thought that's what the DPI-awareness of it was supposed to deal with. The "automatic" mode. |
| 04:15:13 | Llorean | Though it seems that there should be a target size for the automatic mode, which it appears there isn't. |
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| 04:20:33 | * | [Saint] brain dumps |
| 04:21:12 | [Saint] | "things that are needed before the theme I'm working on can be totally usable:" |
| 04:21:41 | [Saint] | 1: touch region "none" to behave as other regions do (long/short press) |
| 04:22:08 | [Saint] | 2: a new .lang string "Screen Locked" |
| 04:22:35 | [Saint] | 3: ...probably something I'm forgetting. |
| 04:22:38 | JdGordon | 3. a new skin maintainer |
| 04:22:45 | [Saint] | ;D |
| 04:23:04 | JdGordon | skin engine maintainer even |
| 04:23:32 | [Saint] | Yeah, I was just about to say...I suppose *I* fal into the first category there. |
| 04:23:37 | [Saint] | *fall |
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| 04:45:58 | [Saint] | I still find it...um, I dunno....amusing, shocking(?) even that two people heavily invested in the Rockbox UI had (apparently) absoluely no say in this line height commit. |
| 04:46:26 | [Saint] | Perhaps I should give up being shocked about such things...its likely not, but sometimes it does feel like a personal agenda. |
| 04:48:46 | Llorean | I thought you both said your piece? Or are you suggesting that you should have veto power over any change that affects the UI? |
| 04:49:53 | [Saint] | No, not at all. But I do feel like what I said (I won't talk for Jd) was completely ignored. |
| 04:50:25 | Llorean | What's the difference between "ignored" and "heard, but deemed not a reason not to go forward"? |
| 04:50:57 | [Saint] | when it obviously *is* a reason not to go forward ;) |
| 04:51:05 | Llorean | That's subjective, though. |
| 04:51:14 | [Saint] | I think not, but, meh. |
| 04:51:27 | Llorean | Notice you said "I think". That's more or less the definition of subjective. |
| 04:52:37 | JdGordon | [Saint]: just ignore it... |
| 04:53:11 | JdGordon | thats not to say you arnt correct, just its not worth the effort complaining |
| 04:53:16 | Llorean | [Saint]: Basically, you're saying because your opinion wasn't followed, you weren't listened to. Or at least that's what I'm hearing. |
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| 04:59:05 | [Saint] | Llorean: (last thing I'll say (at least for now) on it) I feel like the "do it right" attitude was thrown out the window. |
| 04:59:51 | Llorean | [Saint]: It's a solution that works, can be turned off, doesn't require anything but the use of a menu item to use. It has a bug that needs fixing, but it's a lot closer to "good enough" than several other things that have been contentious |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:01:16 | JdGordon | someone may as well revert the skin list commit... it is practically dead anyway |
| 05:01:49 | Llorean | Probably a good idea if there won't be someone finishing it. I imagine we'd get some RAM back? |
| 05:02:05 | JdGordon | 3/th of fuck all |
| 05:02:12 | JdGordon | 3/5th* |
| 05:02:27 | Llorean | Well if there's no real significant cost for keeping it around, then why bother? |
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| 08:21:16 | * | GodEater_ is impressed with this morning's "Ladies and Gentlemen" email. |
| 08:21:26 | GodEater_ | I had no idea anyone was working on the Hifiman! |
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| 09:39:45 | kugel | GodEater_: there was a tracker task about it open for a bit |
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| 10:07:17 | kugel | [Saint]: you were not ignored. it was mainly you that made me adding the config in the first place |
| 10:18:38 | [Saint] | Right, I'm still very much in belief that the default for user skins and the default skin should be off, though. That's all I object to. I'll be having a look this evening at adding magic to detect the failsafe theme and default to on in this case only. |
| 10:19:13 | [Saint] | I've always liked the idea of the patch, I think its great. The only thing that bugs me is that it defaults on. |
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| 10:26:49 | kugel | [Saint]: I don't know what's wrong. you can toggle it off in all your themes |
| 10:27:36 | | Quit Keripo (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 10:27:48 | | Join dfkt [0] (dfkt@unaffiliated/dfkt) |
| 10:27:53 | kugel | I don't think I said "it defaults to on specifically for the fallback theme". I rather said I want it to Just Work with any theme, which includes the fallback one |
| 10:28:54 | [Saint] | Its existing themes that it will suddenly "break" (as happened this afternoon, my time, when a D2 user came in and wanted to know what was wrong with his theme all of a sudden) that bothers me. |
| 10:30:03 | [Saint] | The value also needs to be added to the list of accepted config values for the themesite, otherwise theme authors won't actually be able to turn this off with a theme. |
| 10:30:14 | kugel | that happens. we tend to break themes once in a while, that's why we offer a way to update them; we never cried lout because of that, and I don't see a need to do this now |
| 10:30:59 | JdGordon | err... you completly broke everything.... |
| 10:31:01 | JdGordon | with no fix |
| 10:31:44 | kugel | [Saint]: See, what you see as breakage was one of my goals |
| 10:32:17 | Zagor | kugel: no, your focus was on the built-in theme. not to break all existing themes. |
| 10:32:22 | [Saint] | To make it so that theme authors can't actually guarantee the theme will look as they intend it to? |
| 10:33:29 | Zagor | breaking themes is painful and should be avoided if possible. are you saying enabling auto on for built-in only is impossible? |
| 10:34:05 | Llorean | If auto is enabled for built-in only by default, it should also not be something that can be changed on the theme-site. |
| 10:34:16 | kugel | I wonder when I said I was focusing on the built-in one only |
| 10:34:54 | kugel | Zagor: that would be the first time we do this, and it would most certainly require a hardcoded hack somewhere in the code |
| 10:35:10 | Zagor | the fallback theme *is* hardcoded |
| 10:35:21 | Llorean | If it's to be considered a part of themes (in terms of updating the theme site to allow it), then on-by-default makes sense since themes can override it going forward. |
| 10:35:24 | kugel | we broke existing themes numerous times without uproar, and this doesn't even affect released targets |
| 10:35:45 | kugel | e.g. the touchregion renaming |
| 10:36:12 | Llorean | kugel: How does auto work? if the line height is already large due to a large font does it not add spacing? |
| 10:36:22 | Zagor | I don't like this cavalier attitude to our contributors |
| 10:36:47 | kugel | Llorean: it's a min height based on the dpi. if the font is larger it doesnt pad |
| 10:37:07 | Llorean | So effectively, it's a minimum line spacing. Themes that are already large shouldn't be affected (and if they are, it's a bug) |
| 10:37:21 | Llorean | That sounds reasonable for a "defaults to on" since it prevents themes with tiny lines from being hard to disable. |
| 10:38:08 | Zagor | I haven't tried the patch yet. [Saint], what broke exactly? |
| 10:38:18 | Zagor | s/patch/change/. |
| 10:38:24 | Llorean | Zagor: There's a bug posted on the tracker about skin fonts. |
| 10:38:44 | kugel | Zagor: there's also the case a theme doesn't load correctly, like if the font wasnt found (it may be in the not installed font package) |
| 10:38:48 | Llorean | Zagor: The D2 user on the other hand just had lines spaced out more than they were before (the D2 isn't really a finger target, coming with a stylus, so some themes have quite small lines) and it was resolved by simply turning the feature off |
| 10:39:10 | Llorean | I would argue that this feature might either default to off on Stylus targets, or have a smaller minimum spacing. |
| 10:39:16 | kugel | thinking about it, it's not easily possible to detect teh built-in theme, since themes are still only ordinary .cfg files |
| 10:39:31 | [Saint] | Zagor: Besides the bug posted on the tracker, I also think the "default on for user themes" thing to be "broken". |
| 10:39:46 | kugel | Zagor: see tonights logs. someone came and was surprised by the new line height |
| 10:39:49 | * | JdGordon is currently on the phone but has stuff to but in with... |
| 10:40:17 | Llorean | [Saint]: Assuming the minimum is actually well chosen, it shouldn't *affect* most usable themes. |
| 10:40:34 | kugel | that user must be using the grid mode, I don't think he could use the lists with the font that the screenshot had |
| 10:41:26 | [Saint] | From the brief look I had this afternoon. I certainly think its possible to detect the failsafe case and only activate "auto" then. |
| 10:41:59 | Llorean | I don't think the failsafe is the only time you'd want expanded line spacing. |
| 10:42:01 | [Saint] | I'm not /too/ familiar with the skin engine and the particulars with the failsafe theme, though. |
| 10:42:11 | [Saint] | Llorean: No, certainly not. |
| 10:42:11 | Llorean | As kugel mentioned, a missing font is another, for example. |
| 10:42:17 | JdGordon | kugel: that user wasnt using skin lists at all |
| 10:42:22 | Llorean | Since it's *minimum* spacing, it seems the argument should be about a sane minimum |
| 10:42:24 | [Saint] | Its the only time its *needed* though. |
| 10:42:32 | JdGordon | and the patch complelty broke *all* skin fonts, *everywhere* |
| 10:42:41 | [Saint] | Llorean: Which the theme should take care of. |
| 10:42:50 | [Saint] | If its not usuable, its the fault of them theme. |
| 10:42:53 | kugel | JdGordon: yes. that's an unintentional bug |
| 10:43:15 | Llorean | [Saint]: And there's no reason for the OS not to step in in those situations, if the theme's bad, allowing the user to override if they want to use a bad theme |
| 10:43:19 | kugel | I can't work on a fix at work |
| 10:43:23 | JdGordon | which should have been tested for really.. but whatever |
| 10:43:26 | Llorean | [Saint]: Meanwhile, if the minimum is "sane" the patch shouldn't actually affect good themes at all. |
| 10:44:13 | kugel | JdGordon: you know yourself how testing at rockbox works. you don't get it even if you ask for it |
| 10:44:47 | JdGordon | sure, but using a skin font shold have been an obvious test case |
| 10:44:57 | Zagor | kugel: this should only be enabled on touch targets, right? |
| 10:44:59 | JdGordon | im also guilyty of such omision so no big deal |
| 10:45:02 | [Saint] | I just think, preferably. It should default on (to "auto") in the failsafe case, and off for user theme, gut give the option for the user to expand the padding if they want to as opposed to forcing it on. |
| 10:45:06 | kugel | Zagor: yes |
| 10:45:25 | [Saint] | *but give |
| 10:45:39 | Llorean | [Saint]: It should only expand if line size is below a certain amount. Which means if that amount is sane, it should only expand for non-sane themes. That seems extremely reasonable. |
| 10:45:51 | Llorean | It in itself is a sort of failsafe. |
| 10:45:56 | * | JdGordon sings "the implementation is just broken and should never have been commited" the correct patch would have been much smaller and more useful for everyone |
| 10:46:03 | Zagor | missing font is not hard to detect. the code chooses the fallback font, and could enable auto height there. |
| 10:46:22 | [Saint] | Zagor: Good point. |
| 10:46:32 | Llorean | Zagor: Bad font choices because the theme's for another device with the same screen size/shape though, is different and hard to correct for once the theme is loaded. |
| 10:46:48 | JdGordon | can i point out that if the implementation I wanted was used (i.e hardcoding the sbs) then the fallback is immediatly handled |
| 10:46:55 | JdGordon | as is missing fonts |
| 10:47:02 | Llorean | Zagor: You may discover that the 320x200 theme is unusable realistically with a touchscreen after loading. A minimum line height to ensure that you could still interact wouldn't hurt in those cases. |
| 10:47:41 | Zagor | Llorean: true. I suppose a conservative minimum size would fix most breakages. |
| 10:48:12 | Llorean | Zagor: That's how I feel. Since it's a minimum, and not just an "add X amount to all lines" if the value is picked well, it shouldn't affect themes that are usable on the device, and if the user disagrees with our definition of usable it's a setting and can be disabled. |
| 10:48:22 | JdGordon | also, what happened to yesterday being the feature freeze? |
| 10:48:36 | kugel | well, the auto setting is rather conservative already (in my opinion). I actually reduced the height due to [Saint]'s complained |
| 10:48:41 | kugel | complaint* |
| 10:48:46 | Zagor | JdGordon: alexp wasn't around so nobody took it on himself to do it :) |
| 10:48:58 | * | Llorean can't comment on whether or not the line height is sane. |
| 10:49:05 | Llorean | To be honest, it really didn't look sane at all on the D2 screenshot. |
| 10:49:29 | kugel | logbot: you have a d2 don't you? |
| 10:49:33 | kugel | Llorean: ^ |
| 10:49:35 | Llorean | Yeah |
| 10:49:57 | Llorean | But I prefer grid mode, and used the stylus when not in it anyway. So for fingers it may be more reasonable. |
| 10:50:21 | kugel | in my memory the screen is tiny, and that screenshot seems about right (to enable the thumb to be used) |
| 10:50:28 | kugel | an owner might think diffferently |
| 10:50:28 | Llorean | The screen is pretty tiny |
| 10:50:33 | Zagor | where is this d2 screenshot? I only see JdGordon's e200 bug report. |
| 10:50:53 | Llorean | http://tails.bloodheaven.net/Temp%20folder/20111018_003.jpg |
| 10:50:59 | | Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
| 10:51:07 | kugel | Zagor: JdGordon's report is a real bug, not intended. |
| 10:51:13 | Zagor | ok |
| 10:51:23 | Llorean | For reference, the entire height of the D2 screen is about two thumb widths for me |
| 10:51:51 | Llorean | So for finger use, that is actually probably close to right, though I think I personally would narrow it a little bit more. But I also have skinny fingers. |
| 10:51:52 | kugel | saint's complaint is different |
| 10:52:08 | JdGordon | saints complaint is mostly missing the point |
| 10:52:16 | * | Llorean just digged up his D2 to see how big it really is rather than depending on memory |
| 10:53:20 | kugel | that screenshot should be about unusable, however I suspect grid mode is on |
| 10:53:29 | kugel | unusable without list spacing* |
| 10:53:55 | JdGordon | what makes you say that? |
| 10:54:17 | JdGordon | remember grid mode is off by default |
| 10:54:17 | Llorean | kugel: He may use the stylus. It came with one. |
| 10:54:23 | kugel | JdGordon: not on the d2 |
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| 10:54:39 | kugel | JdGordon: thanks to you actually :P |
| 10:54:54 | Llorean | But it'd certainly be nearly unusable without a stylus. With a font size like that 2 lines would fit under the tip of my pinky |
| 10:54:59 | kugel | Llorean: right. I forgot about the stylus |
| 10:56:09 | JdGordon | I sitll wonder why you assume he has grid mode on.. he didnt say anything about it? |
| 10:56:56 | kugel | the font looks too small to be used with the thumb to me |
| 10:56:59 | Llorean | JdGordon: Forgot about the stylus, and it really would be very nearly unusably small with a finger with that font. So he's just guessing, but a not-to-unreasonable guess ignoring the stylus |
| 10:58:42 | JdGordon | why on earth is the title padded also? |
| 10:59:14 | Llorean | That seems unusual to me too. |
| 10:59:32 | Llorean | I haven't used a touchscreen device in a while. That doesn't do anything like "go up/back a level" or anything, does it? |
| 10:59:34 | kugel | it can be clicked too |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:09 | kugel | Llorean: it does "go to the main menu"# |
| 11:00:18 | Llorean | Ah, okay |
| 11:00:47 | kugel | it looked very strange without too |
| 11:01:23 | JdGordon | you said this wasnt about looks thugh! |
| 11:01:56 | Llorean | He said "too." |
| 11:07:47 | kugel | Zagor: your complaint was based on JdGordon's bug report, right? |
| 11:08:42 | Zagor | no, rather on saints |
| 11:09:35 | JdGordon | can we please have a civil discussion about reverting it and doing it correctly using the skin engine and fixing the skin lists where it is currently missing bits? |
| 11:10:07 | JdGordon | this implementation is totally useless for everyone who wants to skin the list *at all* |
| 11:10:32 | kugel | I was opening the discussion on the ml pre-commit to not discuss reverting post-commit |
| 11:10:59 | JdGordon | and i was very strongly against the commit to begin with... |
| 11:11:09 | JdGordon | never against the feature, always against the implementation |
| 11:11:12 | kugel | but you also said "I'm out" |
| 11:11:22 | JdGordon | so revert skin lists |
| 11:11:34 | JdGordon | noone else seems to care at all about rockbox themeing anymore |
| 11:11:34 | Llorean | JdGordon: Isn't your usual stance "don't object to the implementation unless you're willing to write it the way you think is right"? |
| 11:11:54 | Llorean | Are you offering to implement it the way you think is the right way, then? |
| 11:12:15 | JdGordon | http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2011-10/0047.shtml |
| 11:12:19 | Zagor | I think we should keep it and let kugel fix it. if it's not fixed by next monday, we'll revert it for the release |
| 11:12:40 | Llorean | Zagor: The question though is what needs fixed. |
| 11:12:59 | Llorean | Zagor: Obviously the bug with fonts needs fixed, but JdGordon's complaint is beyond that scope. |
| 11:13:06 | kugel | JdGordon: FS #12330 is also implemented in the classic lists, not in the skinned lists |
| 11:13:07 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12330 Add a nice UI to configure database search directories (patches, new) |
| 11:13:16 | kugel | why are you complaining about me doing so? |
| 11:13:22 | JdGordon | kugel: uh show me where that is ready for commit? |
| 11:13:48 | JdGordon | that patch also has nothing to do with the indenting implementation |
| 11:13:50 | Llorean | JdGordon: Does your patch do the exact same thing (minimum line height, based on screen DPI)? |
| 11:14:11 | kugel | JdGordon: ah so it isnt? I was confused because you already put it on FS (which should mean: look at this and commit please) |
| 11:14:32 | Llorean | kugel: No, flyspray means "this patch is moving toward being ready for commit" |
| 11:14:42 | Zagor | kugel: it usually means "look at this and comment, please" |
| 11:14:53 | Llorean | It doesn't indicate readiness, just intent. |
| 11:15:01 | kugel | okay |
| 11:15:03 | JdGordon | Llorean: why are you being obtuse as always? look at the response i got to that message... |
| 11:15:34 | Llorean | JdGordon: I just asked a yes/no question. Could you perhaps answer it without being insulting, rather than demanding I read the whole thread looking for things I skimmed over or missed? |
| 11:15:56 | Llorean | I thought we were trying to be civil here. |
| 11:16:14 | JdGordon | read the thread, then come back |
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| 11:16:48 | Llorean | JdGordon: The next post says that your patch *doesn't work* |
| 11:16:49 | JdGordon | 100% of the list and lcd and viewport change could have been done in a the skin engine |
| 11:16:57 | Llorean | So am I to take it then, that you haven't implemented it "the right way" yet? |
| 11:17:11 | Zagor | JdGordon: yes but we don't use the skinned list in fallback theme so that wouldn't help |
| 11:17:22 | kugel | we figured that the skin engine isn't ready yet. for a) bugs and b) other limitations |
| 11:17:33 | Zagor | it's a longer process to merge the lists and Do It Right |
| 11:17:48 | JdGordon | Zagor: my proof of concept patch does use the skin engine for the fallback |
| 11:17:52 | JdGordon | that was the whole point |
| 11:17:52 | Llorean | Meanwhile, other than the bug the existing patch "does what it's supposed to do" |
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| 11:18:34 | JdGordon | so instead of fixing bugs which need to be fixed anyway, he's added cruft to a bunch of code which didnt need it |
| 11:19:17 | Llorean | Isn't it cruft that would be removed anyway once all lists are skinned? |
| 11:19:40 | JdGordon | it will have to be now wont it... |
| 11:21:34 | JdGordon | kugel: selective blindeness much? "this also uses a half done patch to make lists handle indenting, not done for the skin list but if this is actually wanted that can be easily added" |
| 11:21:42 | Llorean | Is there some reason other than "its' not the best way to do it" that you're objecting to this? |
| 11:21:53 | Llorean | I'm just trying to get all the problems with it out in the air. |
| 11:22:15 | JdGordon | because with me gone the skin engine is dead pretty much... who is going to finish skin lists? |
| 11:22:34 | kugel | JdGordon: let's be honest, you aren't gone |
| 11:22:43 | JdGordon | especially when the biggest issue is no kinetic scrolling, which kugel implemented and should know what needs fixing |
| 11:22:53 | kugel | which is by all means good |
| 11:23:04 | JdGordon | find someone to take over skinning and i *am* |
| 11:23:11 | JdGordon | i have a very hard time letting go of it |
| 11:24:00 | JdGordon | im really more annoyed that my word means so little seen as it is deeply fiddling with code i've been the only one maiting for the last ages... if someone thinks that is arrogant of me then, well... ok |
| 11:24:17 | JdGordon | there is a cleaner way to do this, but that was ignored |
| 11:24:35 | JdGordon | s/ignored/shot down as an insult/ |
| 11:25:05 | JdGordon | I honestly dont think this feature will be done in skin engine unless I do it.. |
| 11:25:07 | kugel | nobody disagreed that it should be done in the skin engine |
| 11:25:30 | wodz | kugel: huh? |
| 11:25:30 | JdGordon | so we like code duplication now? |
| 11:26:53 | kugel | no, we happily remove the old code once the replacement is ready |
| 11:27:00 | kugel | it's not, as of now, though |
| 11:27:09 | Llorean | I think it's reasonable, as this is a usability feature, that until the skin engine is ready for it there be an alternative implementation of it. Especially if it's likely the skin engine is about to get less maintained. |
| 11:27:17 | JdGordon | what was the rush? |
| 11:27:28 | Llorean | Usability stands in the way of releases. How it looks doesn't. |
| 11:27:48 | JdGordon | err... no targets this affects are in the stable category |
| 11:28:48 | Llorean | Yes, and one issues that could be debated about promoting them is that our UI is at times a bit crap on touch. |
| 11:28:57 | kugel | there was no rush. it was discussed for almost a week, then calmed down for another (almost) week |
| 11:29:43 | | Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving) |
| 11:30:13 | wodz | and commited even if the feature was debatable |
| 11:30:46 | Llorean | Why is that remarkable? It happens pretty frequently that not everyone is for a feature. |
| 11:31:16 | kugel | actually, the implementation was/is debatable, not the feature |
| 11:31:28 | Zagor | as long as this is corrected to not negatively affect stable targets, I'm fine with having it in as a work-in-progress |
| 11:31:51 | Zagor | I don't think every commit has to be 100% correct first shot. we work iteratively. |
| 11:31:56 | Llorean | Zagor: IIUC it's already not supposed to affect stable targets, since none are touch, so where it does is already a bug |
| 11:32:14 | JdGordon | yet if I commited my version of the main menu rewrking patch the shitstorm would have been huge... |
| 11:32:27 | Zagor | the important thing in my view is that the dev is active and fixes issues that are found. and I see no reason to doubt kugels willingness to do this. |
| 11:32:36 | wodz | we often block quick fixes and push 'do it right' solution - why this time this is different? |
| 11:32:42 | Zagor | JdGordon: yes, that would most certainly affect stable targets |
| 11:33:02 | JdGordon | Zagor: sure, but this topic had a clearly better (even kugel admited that skin lists were the way to go) solution which was ignored in favour of the current version |
| 11:33:14 | Llorean | JdGordon: That also is disagreement on a feature, rather than an implementation. |
| 11:33:21 | Zagor | wodz: because those times I have not voiced my opinion? I have always been on the "slack" end of the requirement scale. |
| 11:33:35 | Llorean | Nothing blocks the better solution here, whereas the menu reorganization would've contradicted directly alternatives. |
| 11:33:49 | Zagor | JdGordon: it only had a better concept, not a better implementation. |
| 11:33:58 | Zagor | once we have the better implementation, that's what we should commit |
| 11:34:40 | kugel | that's how I see it too |
| 11:34:48 | Llorean | wodz: Sometimes bad implementations get removed (ones where user visible parts of it are done contrary to ways its decided users should interact with the software, for example) |
| 11:34:53 | Llorean | This one isn't even a user visible difference, really |
| 11:34:55 | JdGordon | you have no intention of fixing the implementation thouhg |
| 11:35:33 | JdGordon | kugel: ^ |
| 11:35:57 | Zagor | JdGordon: I personally have a very definite intention of seeing our dual lists merged into one |
| 11:35:58 | Llorean | It's a solution that works, and not only that, would probably be considered "okay" if skinnable lists weren't another feature, and when the skinnable list feature is complete and able to be adapted to this, will be removed, right? |
| 11:36:26 | JdGordon | Zagor: all the more reason to not let anyone add features to one and not the other |
| 11:37:04 | | Quit GeekShadow (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 11:37:14 | JdGordon | That said, untill you said native lists were "deprecated" i never really thought about it |
| 11:37:19 | Zagor | I disagree. I can't (and won't) declare "there shall be no modifications before list merge" |
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| 11:38:33 | Zagor | I wouldn't say native or skinned lists are deprecated. I just think we should have one list that handles all cases. |
| 11:38:55 | JdGordon | i think you used a softer phrase, someone used the d word in the mailing list :) |
| 11:40:04 | kugel | I used deprecated |
| 11:41:26 | JdGordon | can anyone explain why the lcd_puts functions draw the selection bar also? |
| 11:42:07 | wodz | other topic - what about -Os on ARMs? |
| 11:42:24 | kugel | please no :) |
| 11:42:28 | Zagor | wodz: absolutely |
| 11:42:32 | Zagor | but not before release |
| 11:42:43 | wodz | fair |
| 11:43:20 | JdGordon | Zagor: how are you going with the lcd api fiddling? I think alot of my issue is more that the lcd driver does the line height instead of the list code becasue it is all line instead of pixel based |
| 11:43:22 | kugel | why would you want Os? I expect it to slow things down. Most isn't performance sensitive, but some places are |
| 11:43:51 | Zagor | kugel: Os is actually (far) more optimized that -O |
| 11:44:12 | kugel | Linux even removed the kconfig option (it defaulted to off before) because Os has mostly bad effects |
| 11:44:20 | Zagor | plus 20-40 KB smaller on most targets |
| 11:44:32 | | Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services) |
| 11:44:32 | kugel | Zagor: that's an argument for O2 in my book :p |
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| 11:44:45 | wodz | in my tests Os was faster always |
| 11:44:54 | Zagor | O2 is bigger and slower than Os |
| 11:45:05 | kugel | why should O2 be slower? |
| 11:45:19 | Zagor | because it doesn't inline |
| 11:45:29 | kugel | it's supposed to be faster, and considering what the web says about it it is |
| 11:45:37 | kugel | (like gcc mailing lists) |
| 11:45:55 | kugel | O2 does inline, even more aggressively that Os |
| 11:46:10 | wodz | kugel: I guess it's faster on x86 |
| 11:46:32 | kugel | Os stops inling once it has a bad effect on the size (i.e. the second call) |
| 11:46:33 | Zagor | kugel: compare the output of "arm-elf-eabi-gcc -c -Q -Os −−help=optimizers" and "arm-elf-eabi-gcc -c -Q -O2 −−help=optimizers" |
| 11:47:01 | wodz | most work on arms is done with -Os and thats what majority use |
| 11:47:27 | | Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 11:47:51 | kugel | don't the codec guys always test these things? |
| 11:47:58 | Zagor | there's 27 different optimization algorithms enabled on Os that are disabled on O2 |
| 11:48:19 | Zagor | codecs have their own O flags. this only concerns core. |
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| 11:48:38 | wodz | btw. test of thumb performance shows we are marginally affected by optimization level used since most critical parts are compiled with own set of flags and are asm optimized |
| 11:48:56 | kugel | Zagor: well, it's a fact that O2 is supposed to (by the authors) than Os. I don't know what those 27 algorithms do |
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| 11:49:21 | kugel | wodz: right, that's true |
| 11:49:36 | Zagor | wodz: exactly. and since we always scream about every dozen bytes wasted binsize, reclaiming 20-40 KB should be a no-brainer. |
| 11:49:50 | wodz | Zagor: exactly |
| 11:49:57 | kugel | wodz: did you check O2? |
| 11:50:17 | wodz | kugel: yes but quite long ago |
| 11:50:22 | Zagor | kugel: somehow I believe the output of the compiler more than man pages and lists posts |
| 11:50:36 | Zagor | not that it couldn't be wrong, of course |
| 11:50:51 | wodz | it wasn't substantially faster than Os but considerably bigger |
| 11:51:05 | kugel | it could also mean it applies 27 size optimizations, some of which could have a negative impact on speed |
| 11:51:24 | Zagor | kugel: again, this is core. |
| 11:51:37 | Zagor | it's mostly idling anyway |
| 11:52:24 | kugel | right. the most sensitive parts are ASM'd |
| 11:52:31 | wodz | and not to mention it's hard to tell what is the impact of reduced mem hit |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:36 | Zagor | 39616 bytes gain on sansac200 |
| 12:00:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:23:08 | | Join mortalis [0] (~c3133585@www.haxx.se) |
| 12:26:26 | wodz | mortalis: what is relation between HM-601/HM-602/HM-802 in terms of hardware? |
| 12:27:50 | | Quit sinthetek (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 12:33:15 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 12:35:49 | mortalis | wodz: 602 can work as usb dac, I think it's hardware controled. 801 has another buttons, bigger battery capacity, DAC is PCM1704, also can work as usb DAC. |
| 12:37:24 | wodz | 1) what about the SoC - do they all use rk27xx? 2) Is the dac feature somehow controlled from the firmware (aka some gpio to activate)? 3) I guess this units do not have FM right? |
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| 12:45:08 | mortalis | wodz: 1) yes, they all use rk2706b and the same lcd 2) As I sayed I guess it hardware controled, but I don't know it exactly. GPIO may be used to determine when usb inserted in DAC slot. 3) Yes. You are right |
| 12:46:30 | mortalis | *said |
| 12:47:38 | wodz | mortalis: ok. I think you should post to ML about volume controll - maybe someone will have bright idea how to deal with this. |
| 12:48:00 | wodz | mortalis: are you going to work on missing lowlevel stuff? |
| 12:49:41 | mortalis | wodz: Yes, but I don't have much time to do it, so progress will be slow. |
| 12:50:34 | wodz | I don't have much free time either |
| 12:51:01 | wodz | mortalis: In this case it would be nice to not overlap the work |
| 12:51:47 | mortalis | agree |
| 12:52:06 | wodz | what is your priority? |
| 12:53:44 | mortalis | I think it would be nice to make work nand or usb. |
| 12:54:08 | wodz | mortalis: I have started work on both |
| 12:54:36 | wodz | usb seems to be easier but quite tricky due to the design of usb core |
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| 12:54:43 | Silicium | hi there |
| 12:54:49 | wodz | nand is a lot of dissasembly work |
| 12:54:58 | Silicium | i have a short question about the unsupported cowon D2+ |
| 12:55:20 | Silicium | 2 years ago i installed RB successfully on that device but now it wont work. no idea why |
| 12:55:42 | mortalis | wodz: how about dual boot? |
| 12:55:52 | wodz | mortalis: I failed so far. |
| 12:56:13 | Silicium | i installed a new bootloader, r30119M-110703 and the nightly build (precompiled) |
| 12:56:39 | Silicium | but the device just hangs in the bootloader, there is only the bootloader screen |
| 12:56:41 | wodz | for unknown reason loading original s2 bootloader dumped from flash to the dram do nothing. |
| 12:57:24 | Silicium | when i insert a mmc card (which is not supported) it says blabla ata error file not found, that means the bootloader works and is trying to read files from the local FS |
| 12:57:33 | wodz | mortalis: I started dissasembling s2 bootloader - I guess it sets some magic flag somewhere but this will take a while for sure |
| 12:58:01 | Silicium | so, is it possible to attach a console to the bootloader (usb) for checking why rockbox wont boot? |
| 12:58:20 | wodz | Silicium: no AFAIK |
| 12:58:55 | Silicium | also in the past days *2 years ago) i had a directory on the internal flash which was called "multiboot" and contained a binary |
| 12:59:03 | Silicium | thats not needed, right? |
| 12:59:08 | Silicium | or not longer needed |
| 12:59:22 | wodz | mortalis: maybe you could look at USB - most of my work is in svn |
| 12:59:29 | Silicium | i just have a .rockbox directory |
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| 13:00 |
| 13:01:44 | Silicium | hmm, no idea? |
| 13:02:22 | Silicium | is there no generic problem which prevent from booting the rockbox kernel? |
| 13:02:35 | mortalis | wodz: ok, I can work on USB |
| 13:03:28 | wodz | Silicium: we have a few issues in current trunk but binary should boot AFAIK |
| 13:04:09 | wodz | mortalis: ok I'll dig in nand/ftl |
| 13:04:48 | wodz | mortalis: but if you find out how to use lcdif properly I'll buy you a beer or two :-) |
| 13:05:21 | Silicium | hmm ok |
| 13:05:25 | Silicium | then i will compile byself |
| 13:05:25 | Silicium | thx |
| 13:05:57 | Silicium | but actually, there is no output, if there are problems, it should come to an error at booting, right? |
| 13:07:03 | mortalis | wodz: btw, looks like we always use 44.1kHz sample rate. I added print pcm_fsel to debug info, and tried play some files with different sample rate. pcm_fsel is always 2 which means 44.1kHz |
| 13:07:36 | wodz | Silicium: if you can compile yourself - add a bunch of printfs to see where it hangs |
| 13:08:30 | Silicium | yep, printf will printed on the screen from pointing to the binary? |
| 13:08:38 | wodz | mortalis: I am not pcm subsystem expert - this is question to JhMikeS most probably |
| 13:09:00 | wodz | Silicium: I don't understand |
| 13:09:38 | Silicium | from which bootstep is printf able to print to the device screen? |
| 13:09:54 | wodz | after lcd and fonts init |
| 13:10:08 | wodz | so pretty early |
| 13:10:08 | Silicium | haha rly but is that very early? |
| 13:10:10 | Silicium | ok |
| 13:10:20 | Silicium | thx |
| 13:11:27 | wodz | mortalis: I recall our DSP subsystem is 44.1kHz centric - maybe thats the reason |
| 13:12:47 | Silicium | and finally: could it be that r3019M-110703 bootloader isnt compatible with the actual rockbox os? |
| 13:12:52 | Silicium | kernel |
| 13:12:57 | wodz | unlikely |
| 13:13:02 | Silicium | ok |
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| 13:49:53 | Zagor | JdGordon: my api fiddling is going well-ish. I'm a bit bothered by not being able to commit stuff in reasonable portions. maybe I should make a branch. |
| 13:51:13 | pixelma | Silicium: do you have the .rockbox folder on an SD card or on the internal memory? I *believe* the D2s need the former but I'm not sure |
| 13:51:21 | JdGordon | Zagor: call it a bug fix :) |
| 13:52:02 | Zagor | well it is, in some twisted sense. :) |
| 13:52:55 | Silicium | pixelma: internal memory |
| 13:53:14 | Silicium | external will just work with SD and internal worked fine but RO |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:02:16 | pixelma | well, what I seem to remember is that the Rockbox bootloader expects the firmware to be on the SD (because Rockbox is unable to write to the internal memory and needs to for some things, e.g. resume position) |
| 14:02:26 | pixelma | in the D2 case |
| 14:03:12 | kugel | Zagor: branch sounds like a good idea |
| 14:04:29 | Silicium | pixelma: hmm, but when no sd card is inserted, it searchs on the local device |
| 14:04:46 | Silicium | is this defined in the bootloader? |
| 14:05:05 | Silicium | so i will have a look into |
| 14:15:18 | Silicium | allright, final question: where is the mktccboot binary? its not longer in the SDK |
| 14:16:39 | Silicium | ah |
| 14:16:40 | Silicium | :D |
| 14:19:23 | Silicium | yay, debug output works :) |
| 14:19:56 | Silicium | its hanging at mount |
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| 14:44:26 | | Quit Rob2222 (Quit: Rob2222) |
| 14:55:36 | CIA-14 | New commit by zagor (r30781): New branch for LCD work. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:13:23 | wodz | shouldn't FS #12186 be closed? |
| 15:13:23 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12186 GSoC/Buflib: Put extended buflib into core (patches, new) |
| 15:13:48 | kugel | yes, probably |
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| 15:19:21 | * | JdGordon has the cabbie skin buffer usage down to 8kb :p |
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| 15:19:53 | CIA-14 | New commit by zagor (r30782): Dynamic screen size (based on FS #11615), first commit. #ifdef:ed to not affect static targets at all. |
| 15:19:55 | Torne | JdGordon: neat.. how? |
| 15:20:10 | JdGordon | moving the major user onto buflib |
| 15:20:24 | JdGordon | I have disabled the move callback to start with so obviously not ready |
| 15:20:40 | JdGordon | and err... wondering why only one alloc is being done |
| 15:23:21 | JdGordon | buflib_alloc_size -= size; <- always a problem forgetting that line |
| 15:23:37 | * | JdGordon wonders just how many different malloc type implementations we have in rockbox |
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| 15:23:48 | Torne | well technically zero |
| 15:23:53 | JdGordon | or custom buffer alloc systems |
| 15:24:00 | Torne | Okay, not zero really |
| 15:24:09 | Torne | a couple, but all in pluginlib |
| 15:24:12 | Torne | or plugins |
| 15:24:36 | JdGordon | i mean, things that carve up a buffer manually |
| 15:24:51 | Torne | are there really many? |
| 15:25:00 | Torne | most things do it in very special-purpose ways that are not obviously generalisable |
| 15:25:09 | Torne | and os comparing them to malloc is not really fair |
| 15:26:32 | * | Zagor tries to add branch to the commit bot text |
| 15:29:02 | kugel | Zagor: hmm, many #ifdef :( |
| 15:29:09 | Zagor | of course |
| 15:29:24 | kugel | I hope it's not going to be as painful as the charcell/bitmap separation |
| 15:30:22 | JdGordon | Zagor: is there any reason to not use the same system on all targets? |
| 15:30:41 | JdGordon | have the frambuffer as a pointer instead of the static array |
| 15:30:46 | JdGordon | or are the ifdefs elsewhere? |
| 15:30:56 | Zagor | it adds runtime penalty |
| 15:30:57 | * | JdGordon should probaly look |
| 15:31:25 | Zagor | the frame buffer is the least of our problems :-) |
| 15:32:35 | kugel | #ifdefs like in settings_list.c aren't needed IMO (you can simply #define DEFAULT_LCD_WIDTH LCD_WIDTH) |
| 15:34:13 | kugel | I agree that runtime paneltry should be avoided if possible. I just hope it's not going to be a PITA for devs/contributors |
| 15:41:34 | * | JdGordon has no freeking clue how to handle the buflib moveing... |
| 15:42:30 | JdGordon | the move callback happens *after* the data is moved right? |
| 15:42:36 | kugel | no |
| 15:42:51 | JdGordon | ah |
| 15:42:52 | JdGordon | woops |
| 15:42:57 | JdGordon | that makes sense :) |
| 15:43:04 | * | JdGordon is probably too tired to do this now |
| 15:43:08 | Silicium | hmm, what could be the problem, if the RB bootloader can't mount the internal storage? i cleared from the D2 firmware but it still hanging at "mount" i also added some printfs around the main-pp.c's mount-all but they wont be displayed :( |
| 15:43:28 | kugel | Silicium: main-pp.c is the wrong file |
| 15:43:39 | Silicium | ah :D |
| 15:43:43 | Silicium | which is the right one? |
| 15:43:54 | kugel | find out in SOURCES |
| 15:44:52 | Silicium | aah |
| 15:44:53 | Silicium | telechips |
| 15:44:54 | Silicium | damn :) |
| 15:45:16 | Silicium | thx |
| 15:46:20 | Zagor | kugel: I know. but that means changing code for static target. I'm wasting a few #ifdefs at this point to explicitly not change anything for static targets. |
| 15:46:33 | pixelma | Zagor: I remember you trying to add branch to the cia-bot text before without success (things may have changed since though) ;) |
| 15:47:04 | Zagor | pixelma: we'll see next commit :-) |
| 15:49:59 | Silicium | still no output |
| 15:50:19 | Silicium | is D2N_P.bin the right file to patch> |
| 15:50:21 | Silicium | ? |
| 15:51:15 | kugel | Silicium: I doubt anyone online currently is familiar with the D2 port |
| 15:51:27 | Silicium | thx |
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| 16:04:49 | Silicium | allright, it crashs while storage_init() |
| 16:04:53 | Silicium | yay :) |
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| 16:05:15 | Silicium | oh, no |
| 16:05:28 | Silicium | while disk_mount_all |
| 16:14:00 | CIA-14 | New commit by zagor (r30783): Enable dynamic size on Android. |
| 16:15:17 | JdGordon | 00:47 <Zagor> pixelma: we'll see next commit :-) <- guess not :) |
| 16:15:28 | Zagor | nope :) |
| 16:19:47 | Zagor | is anyone friends with SDL? where do I set the window resizable? |
| 16:20:05 | kugel | SDL_VideoInit or so |
| 16:20:36 | kugel | I'm actually not sure if SDL windows can be resiizable |
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| 16:21:49 | Zagor | looks like it can: http://www.libsdl.org/docs/html/sdlresizeevent.html |
| 16:22:27 | Zagor | flags |= SDL_VIDEORESIZE |
| 16:23:38 | kugel | SDL_SetVideoMode() perhaps |
| 16:24:36 | kugel | ah yes, it says it on that page |
| 16:24:40 | kugel | that call is in system-sdl.c |
| 16:24:50 | Zagor | yeah, done already. |
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| 17:08:18 | Silicium | allright, the boot process is hanging at fat_mount(), after there are no partitions found, the bootloader tries to mount the blockdevice without partition and then they dont longer response. |
| 17:08:29 | Silicium | still at my cowon d2+ |
| 17:08:58 | Silicium | makes it sense when i reformat the internal storage with vfat? |
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| 17:18:55 | pixelma | have you tried with an SD card? Might be worth it before altering the code |
| 17:19:13 | pixelma | or other measures |
| 17:19:38 | Silicium | i have no SD Card, just SDHC |
| 17:19:43 | Silicium | and sdhc wont work |
| 17:21:23 | pixelma | I thought it should |
| 17:21:27 | pixelma | re. SDHC |
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| 19:02:26 | CIA-14 | New commit by fredwbauer (r30784): In search(): eliminate an unnecessary test. |
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| 19:04:32 | CIA-14 | r30784 build result: All green |
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| 19:53:34 | amiconn | Zagor: Just mu 2 cents: While -Os might be useful for core in general, I'd rather not enable it just now |
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| 19:53:56 | Zagor | "just now" as in before release? |
| 19:53:57 | amiconn | Optimising something while it isn't stable is probably a bad idea.. |
| 19:54:12 | amiconn | "just now" as in before getting the core stable again |
| 19:54:40 | Zagor | right, I'm in no hurry. |
| 19:54:51 | amiconn | The straightened paper clip is still an important accessory, unfortunately :( |
| 19:55:40 | amiconn | I wonder what the core is doing here, btw. Not only does it not store resume position at shutdown, but it also doesn't so while rebuffering (i.e. in the storage callback) |
| 19:55:46 | Zagor | do we have a bug report for that? |
| 19:55:59 | * | amiconn currently has to do resume-from-brain |
| 19:56:10 | amiconn | Not sure, will check |
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| 20:28:43 | Buschel | amiconn: FS #12284 covers a resume issue |
| 20:28:45 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12284 Failure to properly resume playback (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 20:29:53 | amiconn | Buschel: I'm not having a resume issue, I'm having an issue with saving resume position |
| 20:30:24 | amiconn | Resume it self works (to the position stored back when it worked last time) |
| 20:30:49 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 20:30:56 | Buschel | ok, then this does not seem to be covered in flyspray yet |
| 20:38:25 | bluebrother^ | btw, do we have some playback test functionality since SoC? |
| 20:38:54 | Zagor | afaik no |
| 20:39:20 | CIA-14 | New commit by zagor (r30785): Make SDL window resizable and send event on resize. |
| 20:39:41 | bluebrother^ | has there been any result on the playback project? |
| 20:40:28 | * | bluebrother^ wonders why this player doesn't seem to like to talk to beastpatcher :/ |
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| 21:04:46 | CIA-14 | New commit by kugel: r30786): Fix FS #12337. Skin viewports' line height was initialized with the UI font height. |
| 21:06:32 | CIA-14 | r30786 build result: All green |
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| 21:06:58 | CIA-14 | New commit by kugel: r30787): Reflect the time & date settings move in the manual. ... |
| 21:08:52 | CIA-14 | r30787 build result: All green |
| 21:09:30 | bluebrother^ | forum admins: Lidress4f is spamming |
| 21:09:37 | CIA-14 | New commit by buschel: r30788): Submit FS #11805: Add setting 'Start File Browser Here' to manual. |
| 21:11:17 | CIA-14 | r30788 build result: All green |
| 21:25:22 | bluebrother^ | is there any tool to snoop PTP / MTP USB transfer? |
| 21:25:37 | bluebrother^ | i.e. something that also decodes the protocol |
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| 21:49:15 | Buschel | kugel: since r30787 the manual does not build anymore |
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| 21:49:38 | Buschel | the file time_and_date.tex is missing |
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| 22:01:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 22:42:10 | pamaury | sound on the fuze+ \o/ |
| 22:42:41 | bluebrother^ | nice |
| 22:43:35 | bluebrother^ | hmpf. If I send FWImage.ebn to the sa9200 via MTP it stores it on the data partition and doesn't upgrade the firmware :( |
| 22:43:44 | gevaerts | pamaury: well done! |
| 22:44:41 | pamaury | the bug I had was very strange, I still need to investigate it |
| 22:44:54 | pamaury | and I think I messed up in the volume settings |
| 22:45:37 | Zagor | pamaury: wohoo! |
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| 22:48:42 | CIA-14 | New commit by kugel: r30789): Fix manual build, forgot to add new files. |
| 22:50:33 | CIA-14 | r30789 build result: All green |
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| 22:53:53 | wodz | pamaury: congratulations! |
| 22:54:25 | pamaury | thanks |
| 22:54:40 | saratoga | time for a gentlemen email? |
| 22:54:40 | | Quit Keripo1 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 22:55:35 | pamaury | just want to fix a few things before :) |
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| 23:19:40 | Bagder | pamaury: awesome work! |
| 23:19:41 | jpt9 | Random question... are Sansas the only Rockboxable player that you can buy new right now? |
| 23:20:09 | jpt9 | (My Clip's power switch broke, and I'm checking out new MP3 players.) |
| 23:24:56 | wodz | question to arm gurus - what is smulbb mnemonic - I guess this is some signed multiplication |
| 23:26:34 | saratoga | 16x16 bit multiply of bottom half of registers i think |
| 23:28:33 | saratoga | yeah bottom half signed multiple |
| 23:29:00 | saratoga | http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0553a/CHDIABBH.html |
| 23:29:21 | wodz | thx |
| 23:29:53 | saratoga | FWIW thats a single cycle operation on arm7e :) |
| 23:31:57 | wodz | bottom means [0:15]? |
| 23:33:28 | amiconn | yes |
| 23:33:45 | saratoga | If Y is B, then the bottom halfword (bits [15:0]) of Rm is used. If Y is T, then the top halfword (bits [31:16]) of Rm is used. |
| 23:44:03 | wodz | now r1=0-3, r4=0x0b, lr=ptr_to_some_struct : smulbb r3, r1, r4 add r12, lr, r3, lsl#2 - what is the meaning of something like this considering little endian byte sex? IMO it will always give r12 = lr |
| 23:54:58 | | Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.) |
| 23:55:22 | CIA-14 | New commit by pamaury: r30790): imx233/fuze+: move audio driver to the canonical location |
| 23:56:18 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 23:56:38 | | Nick [sanyi] is now known as [Sanyi] (~sanyi@unaffiliated/alexanderc) |
| 23:57:07 | CIA-14 | r30790 build result: 4 errors, 0 warnings (pamaury committed) |
| 23:58:15 | CIA-14 | New commit by pamaury: r30791): fuze+: fix bootloader not set backlight brightness |
| 23:58:20 | CIA-14 | New commit by pamaury: r30792): imx233/fuze+: fix typo and add dac dma/error interrupts |
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