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| 00:38:44 | deute1 | hey guys, i just followd the developer guide and setup my computer to compile. now i struggling at http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HowToCompile step 4 |
| 00:39:11 | deute1 | i typed which arm-elf-eabi-gcc and it says /usr/local/bin/arm-elf-eabi-gcc |
| 00:39:28 | deute1 | so im guessing its all right? |
| 00:40:23 | deute1 | and im wondering what to do now... i could just move forward to step 5 build... but shouldnt i program my things first...!? |
| 00:40:42 | CIA-1 | New commit by jethead71 (r31335): Convert remaining memframe LCDs that can be convert to common code. ... |
| 00:40:49 | deute1 | doesnt build is equal to compile? |
| 00:41:00 | saratoga | that means you installed the compiler |
| 00:41:39 | deute1 | ok so now i could start program and then compile...? |
| 00:41:49 | saratoga | those instructions are to build rockbox, once you have the build tools installed the next step is actually compiling rockbox |
| 00:42:24 | saratoga | i would do that first, then once you have everything working try changing things |
| 00:42:29 | gevaerts | You can make modifications first of course, but I'd say compiling rockbox once first to see if everything works properly is sensible |
| 00:43:06 | CIA-1 | r31335 build result: 5 errors, 0 warnings (jethead71 committed) |
| 00:43:55 | deute1 | that make sense. thanks |
| 00:46:13 | CIA-1 | New commit by jethead71 (r31336): Oops. Left some bits I didn't want to keep. |
| 00:48:03 | CIA-1 | r31336 build result: All green |
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| 01:06:48 | dfkt | i noticed the %tr tag for fm signal strength is missing on the custom wps wiki page |
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| 01:09:11 | dfkt | should i add it? |
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| 01:09:57 | gevaerts | sure |
| 01:10:31 | dfkt | ok, added - just thought it might have been removed for a specific reason |
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| 02:25:19 | funman | jhMikeS: FS #12542 : you know crt0.S is shared with other targets? (d2 iirc) |
| 02:25:21 | fs-bluebot | Flyspray doesn't have a task with this number. |
| 02:25:31 | funman | FS #12452 |
| 02:25:32 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12452 Reduce interrupt latency for AMS v1 and v2 (patches, new) |
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| 02:33:55 | jhMikeS | funman: yeah |
| 02:34:25 | jhMikeS | it's not meant to be committed as is. I'd take care of that beforehand. |
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| 02:36:36 | funman | ok |
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| 02:43:36 | CIA-1 | New commit by jethead71 (r31337): Do some things to make -ffunction-sections work better. ... |
| 02:45:34 | CIA-1 | r31337 build result: 69 errors, 0 warnings (jethead71 committed) |
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| 03:01:03 | CIA-1 | New commit by jethead71 (r31338): Get the linker files that slipped through in r31337. |
| 03:03:03 | CIA-1 | r31338 build result: All green |
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| 03:17:54 | jhMikeS | shouldn't we decide what the cache functions should be called by now? :) |
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| 04:22:08 | funman | jhMikeS: commit etc instead of cache? |
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| 08:27:27 | CIA-1 | New commit by jethead71 (r31339): Commit to certain names for cache coherency APIs and discard the aliases. ... |
| 08:30:15 | CIA-1 | r31339 build result: 71 errors, 24 warnings (jethead71 committed) |
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| 08:54:02 | CIA-1 | New commit by jethead71 (r31340): Swap red and yellow for green on r31339's cranky builds. |
| 08:56:20 | CIA-1 | r31340 build result: All green |
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| 09:11:31 | scanf | hello |
| 09:11:35 | scanf | what is the cheapest rockbox-able mp3 player |
| 09:15:59 | kevku | clip? |
| 09:16:50 | kevku | mayb not the cheapest but best bang for the buck |
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| 09:36:56 | scanf | whats that |
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| 10:47:07 | bluebrother | pamaury: I get a warning ../../utils/imxtools/sb.c:179:12: warning: excess elements in struct initializer |
| 10:47:28 | bluebrother | looking at the initialization it's two elements too much, compared with struct tm. |
| 10:47:34 | bluebrother | is there any reason for that? |
| 10:47:50 | pamaury | arf, the size of tm is platform specific I forgot that |
| 10:48:03 | pamaury | are you using cygwin ? |
| 10:49:02 | bluebrother | no, I'm on linux |
| 10:49:11 | bluebrother | struct tm is platform specific? |
| 10:49:40 | bluebrother | I can't see that to be platform specific: http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/ctime/tm/ |
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| 10:50:28 | pamaury | I already run into this problem, compiling on another platform and two fields where gone too, so there must be something platform specific |
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| 10:51:06 | pamaury | might be my platform which has two more :) |
| 10:51:23 | bluebrother | what platform are you running on? |
| 10:51:45 | bluebrother | I've just checked C in a Nutshell and it agrees with the link above :) |
| 10:51:46 | pamaury | linux, ah right it's the timezone |
| 10:52:42 | pamaury | Wait a minute, I will commit a proper init |
| 10:52:53 | bluebrother | ah. |
| 10:52:56 | desowin | hmm, is using oscillopsope hooked to some easily accessible GIO to calibrate udelay() loop a good way to do? (that is, write an infinite loop which calls ie. udelay(10), then switches the state of that ouput, and calibrate the func to output square vale with duty cycle 50% and cycle time of 20us) is there generally any better way to approach that? |
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| 10:53:10 | bluebrother | there's some #ifdef __USE_BSD in time.h on my system :) |
| 10:53:57 | bluebrother | ah right. The problem is that I'm cross compiling for Windows. |
| 10:54:15 | pamaury | desowin: how did you implement udelay ? |
| 10:54:33 | desowin | pamaury: I didn't :-) I used the "crude" code that already was there |
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| 10:54:42 | bluebrother | and my linux time.h actually does include the additional fields. |
| 10:54:55 | pamaury | desowin: how it's implement ? loop ? |
| 10:54:58 | desowin | pamaury: but the biggest weak point of that is not being aware of boost/unboost |
| 10:55:20 | pamaury | desowin: doesn't this SoC has a high precision counter ? |
| 10:55:21 | desowin | pamaury: volatile int temp=usec*(175000/200); while(temp){temp−−;} |
| 10:56:07 | pamaury | bluebrother: perhaps I should change that to a memset and manual assignment ? |
| 10:56:10 | desowin | it has few more counters than we use |
| 10:56:25 | desowin | dunno if those are high precision actually |
| 10:56:43 | bluebrother | pamaury: might make sense :) |
| 10:57:02 | bluebrother | we could of course also #ifdef _WIN32, but that might give new issues with other platforms |
| 10:57:18 | bluebrother | I can try to check on OS X later, but I guess it's the same as on Linux |
| 10:57:25 | desowin | pamaury: but your suggestion is, to start the counter inside the udelay() and wait until it reaches certain value? |
| 10:57:29 | CIA-1 | New commit by bluebrother (r31341): rbspeex: fix cross compiling rbspeex.dll. |
| 10:58:07 | pamaury | desowin: not, high precision counter are useful free running counter, you save the value on enter and wait for it to reach the expected value (since it increments N times per usec usually) |
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| 10:59:14 | * | bluebrother wonders why ipodpatcher seems to ignore the default value for CC |
| 10:59:55 | CIA-1 | r31341 build result: All green |
| 11:00 |
| 11:02:28 | * | bluebrother grumbles |
| 11:03:17 | bluebrother | mingw32-make doesn't like the calls of submakefiles. msys make has a problem passing the options to the MS programs. |
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| 11:10:18 | bertrik | JdGordon, but rds data is only updated when there is a radio event, so I thought they can be static |
| 11:12:14 | JdGordon | bertrik: sure, but that means you need to do a full screen redraw to update it |
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| 11:22:37 | CIA-1 | New commit by pamaury (r31342): imxtools: fix compilation when cross compiling for windows (tm doesn't have timezone fields) |
| 11:23:21 | bertrik | meh, test_codec won't compile for me |
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| 11:24:57 | CIA-1 | r31342 build result: All green |
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| 11:31:17 | bluebrother | pamaury: thanks :) |
| 11:44:17 | bertrik | jhMikeS, I see in codec_crt0.c, a ci->cpucache_invalidate(); has been replaced by a ci->commit_dcache();, is this correct? |
| 11:45:02 | bertrik | I'm not really familiar with the cache stuff, but shouldn't this be commit_discard_idcache(); ? |
| 11:47:53 | bertrik | jhMikeS, at least test_codec broke with the recent cache flush/discard changes |
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| 11:54:39 | bertrik | JdGordon, rds radio text is not scrolling anymore |
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| 12:11:20 | honschu | Hi, I have a SanDisk Clip Zip and would like to use rockbox with it. I have already downloaded the current svn version with git. I have built the version for this device with make zip and would like to load the bootloader now. Is there docu about how to upload this? |
| 12:14:01 | WalkGood | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipzip/rockbox-buildch2.html#x4-60002 |
| 12:15:28 | WalkGood | you might also want to read http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66292 |
| 12:15:38 | lebellium | bertrik : is the RDS patch still breaking my theme? |
| 12:16:40 | honschu | I'll read this. Thanks. |
| 12:17:03 | bertrik | I don't know how it broke the them |
| 12:17:33 | honschu | What is the best way to compile "rbutil"? Just go into the directory rbutil/rbutilqt and use qmake? |
| 12:18:42 | lebellium | when you gave me a compiled version last month, it displayed the virtual keyboard on the left top corner, at the place of the numeric volume. I can't compile anything so I can't try the patchs myself |
| 12:22:50 | honschu | Or let me ask in another way: What is the appropriate way of compiling rbutil? |
| 12:23:11 | lebellium | bertrik : if you use my theme, you would notice this very strange bug immediately so I assume it doesn't break the theme anymore :) |
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| 12:28:31 | SynrG | scanf: i'd agree on the clip. definitely a good value for your money ("bang for your buck") |
| 12:29:24 | SynrG | three of our family members own them. i picked up three more for gifts this christmas. $40 from futureshop (canada) |
| 12:30:30 | SynrG | ah, except the deal is over now. back to $50 |
| 12:31:33 | SynrG | clip+ to be precise |
| 12:31:35 | SynrG | 4G model |
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| 13:25:44 | scanf | SynrG: would one like this with SDHC additional work: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Sansa-Player-microSDHC-Storage/dp/B005ORQLAM/ |
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| 13:32:15 | WalkGood | <honschu> i'm not really sure what you asking about rbutil, if you're looking to compile rockbox sc this should help http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SimpleGuideToCompiling#Introduction |
| 13:32:35 | WalkGood | *i wass away, sorry for delay |
| 13:34:07 | WalkGood | scanf i have the zip, are you in the states? if so costco has the 8gb for $39.99 sale on it |
| 13:34:34 | scanf | yes but i dont think there is a zip within 200 miles |
| 13:35:14 | scanf | s/zip/costco/ |
| 13:35:34 | scanf | zip has an ext storage port right |
| 13:35:43 | bertrik | yes, is has a microsd slot |
| 13:35:43 | WalkGood | yes |
| 13:35:55 | scanf | basically, i want a budget player that can hold *all* of my music (~20gb) |
| 13:36:25 | WalkGood | i've been running rockbox w/32gb card, latest builds work great |
| 13:36:56 | WalkGood | usb doesn't always work for me, 1 in 5 but i'm sure that will come |
| 13:37:48 | bertrik | The clip zip is basically a clip+ with an colour oled display and an RDS capable fm tuner chip, hardware-wise. The sd card driver is the exact same as the one in the clip+ |
| 13:38:32 | scanf | does fm listen/record work in rockbox? |
| 13:39:13 | WalkGood | pass, i haven't even tried it. i don't ever use radio on my daps |
| 13:40:43 | bertrik | yes, fm listen works, but there is an annoying ticking sound on the clip+. A bugfix for this has been committed recently, but I haven't tried it. I don't have the ticking on my clip zip. |
| 13:41:54 | scanf | what about record? |
| 13:42:03 | bertrik | I haven't tried record |
| 13:42:11 | bertrik | but it's supposed to work |
| 13:42:54 | scanf | awesome |
| 13:43:04 | scanf | well i guess the zip is the answer to my questions |
| 13:43:07 | scanf | thanks :) |
| 13:43:26 | WalkGood | bertrik did i miss read something or did the last commit mess up rds |
| 13:44:19 | scanf | biggest sdhc cards are 64gb? |
| 13:45:37 | WalkGood | it's actually sdxc but it can be formatted to fat and work in some players |
| 13:45:58 | WalkGood | 32gb is the largest in sdhc afaik |
| 13:46:17 | scanf | will sdxc work in the plus/clip? |
| 13:46:58 | gevaerts | desowin: that delay loop should probably be implemented in assembler. We've had some nasty surprises in the past when switching gcc versions |
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| 13:47:26 | bertrik | WalkGood, there is some to-be-investigated issue with scrolling radio text, but it probably wasn't caused by the last commit |
| 13:47:36 | WalkGood | from what i've read it should if formatted because it's still under the hc specifications but when they go to the xc specifications it won't |
| 13:47:38 | bertrik | scanf, I don't know |
| 13:47:41 | | Quit jdgord_ (Client Quit) |
| 13:47:55 | JdGordon | bertrik: rds wont scroll with latest svn? |
| 13:47:57 | JdGordon | lame! |
| 13:48:06 | bertrik | sdxc uses a different file system IIRC (one that we don't support) |
| 13:48:24 | bertrik | but I think you can reformat it to FAT32 |
| 13:48:47 | WalkGood | yes it should work as it does in other players |
| 13:49:05 | WalkGood | [05:54] ic, thks >> <bertrik> JdGordon, rds radio text is not scrolling anymore |
| 13:49:53 | | Quit JdGord (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 13:51:46 | WalkGood | i have to say though it's much cheaper to buy two 32gb cards than one 64gb xc card, recently bought 2 for $30 each |
| 13:51:58 | scanf | oh wow |
| 13:52:10 | JdGordon | bertrik: can you put your latest patch up somewhere? You're not still cauing a full redraw when the rds event comes in are you? |
| 13:52:19 | WalkGood | i've yet to see the xc less than $149 |
| 13:52:32 | scanf | theres a 64gb sdxc for $70 |
| 13:53:03 | WalkGood | nice, make sure you buy from reputable dealer, i keep seeing fakes in the market |
| 13:53:08 | WalkGood | and they look real |
| 13:53:13 | scanf | could be a fake |
| 13:53:49 | WalkGood | don't buy cards from ebay |
| 13:53:50 | scanf | http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SDXC64GB-10 |
| 13:54:53 | WalkGood | that isn't a microsd card and fakes are impossible to tell from pictures |
| 13:54:57 | bertrik | JdGordon, yes, I'll put it on the tracker |
| 13:56:58 | WalkGood | scanf afaik the only way to tell a fake is by testing it, like with H2testw |
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| 14:14:31 | lebellium | what? RDS is included in the latest SVN? huh |
| 14:15:26 | lebellium | ah no I read it wrong |
| 14:19:09 | lebellium | JgGordon: do you wait for sth particular to included your "Skin viewport layering" into the SVN? |
| 14:19:17 | lebellium | to include* |
| 14:19:35 | lebellium | JdGordon* |
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| 14:32:07 | scanf | why is the project using svn over things like git |
| 14:32:53 | * | scanf 's day job is migrating a project from svn to git |
| 14:33:52 | dfkt | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GitVersionControl |
| 14:34:37 | | Quit lebellium (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 14:35:19 | gevaerts | scanf: because when rockbox migrated away from svn git wasn't around? |
| 14:35:45 | n1s | from cvs |
| 14:35:59 | gevaerts | right |
| 14:36:10 | n1s | hmm, test codec doesn't build for target here |
| 14:36:21 | * | gevaerts changed his mind on the correct phrasing halfway through but didn't fix everything |
| 14:39:33 | n1s | ah the cache function rename, easy fix |
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| 14:43:56 | CIA-1 | New commit by nls (r31343): Fix building of test_codec |
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| 14:46:06 | CIA-1 | r31343 build result: All green |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:02:07 | jlbiasini | hello, when trying to play a files from sd I often get the folloowing message: "no .rockbox forlder found, installation incomplete" is ist normal? Should I install rockbox also on the sd? Or is it the storage driver that mix up thing and should be reported as a bug? |
| 15:05:03 | jlbiasini | or could it be related to a bad sd card? |
| 15:06:23 | | Quit WalkGood (Quit: ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪ ♫) |
| 15:17:52 | jlbiasini | pamaury: do you also have this issue? IIRC one of the problem was a mix of the sd and internal at boot... |
| 15:18:29 | pamaury | I didn't try, I'll have a look |
| 15:18:51 | jlbiasini | ok but this isn't happening all the time |
| 15:19:13 | jlbiasini | usually take the card away and in again solve it |
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| 16:07:57 | CIA-1 | New commit by buschel (r31344): Add new metadata feature to the manual section 'Featureset for generic metadata tags'. |
| 16:10:06 | CIA-1 | r31344 build result: All green |
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| 17:30:30 | | Join AlexEditor [0] (~chatzilla@ttxa126.ttx-net.sk) |
| 17:30:35 | AlexEditor | hello |
| 17:39:48 | | Join TomColler [0] (~thomas@net-93-144-145-94.cust.dsl.teletu.it) |
| 17:40:08 | AlexEditor | i'm an editor of an IT mag and thinking about writing an article about rockbox. Is there any sort of statistic about the reliability of the upgrade? I.e. what chance si there to brick the player etc. Google shows up quite a bit of cries of help. |
| 17:44:46 | gevaerts | One problem is that there are vastly different ideas of what "bricked" means. Some people say a player is bricked when it just needs to be reset by e.g. holding the power button for a while |
| 17:46:06 | | Quit Stummi (Read error: No route to host) |
| 17:46:25 | pamaury | depends on what you mean by upgrade too, if you update to SVN head, that's clearly no the same as upgrade to a stable release |
| 17:47:41 | gevaerts | I'd say that if you follow instructions, installing rockbox on a player that's on the list of stable ports isn't more risky than doing a "regular" firmware update |
| 17:48:32 | dfkt | wouldn't it actually be risk-free, as long as only the rockbox firmware is updated, not the bootloader? |
| 17:49:05 | * | gevaerts assumes that "the upgrade" refers to "the installation of rockbox" |
| 17:49:13 | dfkt | ah, right |
| 17:50:54 | AlexEditor | bricked = doesn't work and can't be fixed by software means - i.e. needs dissasembly or something |
| 17:51:12 | AlexEditor | by upgrade i mean rockbox instead of the original fw :) |
| 17:52:19 | AlexEditor | btw is there any way to try rockbox without installing? there's unofficial firmware for canon digital cameras that runs just from the sd card |
| 17:52:32 | funman | no |
| 17:52:37 | dfkt | there are simulators |
| 17:52:45 | | Join phpfury [0] (~root@ip98-167-172-201.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:52:49 | phpfury | http://www.powerhash.com |
| 17:52:50 | phpfury | http://www.powerhash.com |
| 17:52:50 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK phpfury |
| 17:52:50 | phpfury | http://www.powerhash.com |
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| 17:52:51 | phpfury | http://www.powerhash.com |
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| 17:52:51 | phpfury | http://www.powerhash.com |
| 17:53:07 | Mode | "#rockbox +o funman" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 17:53:14 | Kick | (#rockbox phpfury :phpfury) by funman!~fun@rockbox/developer/funman |
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| 17:55:06 | gevaerts | Those canon cameras have built-in support for running things from sd card (presumably meant for firmware updaters). Audio players tend not to have that |
| 17:55:14 | AlexEditor | btw how many people are working on rockbox? approx. |
| 17:55:26 | gevaerts | Good question :) |
| 17:55:42 | AlexEditor | i expected like 5 people here on irc |
| 17:56:01 | gevaerts | We have about 100 people with commit access. It's hard to say how many of those are active though, but I'd say 20 to 40 |
| 17:56:24 | AlexEditor | nice |
| 17:57:02 | dfkt | AlexEditor, here you can get windows simulators to try rockbox - rasher.dk/rockbox/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/ |
| 17:57:20 | funman | also you can make stats from git repo log |
| 17:57:33 | gevaerts | During the last month, 22 different people did at least one commit |
| 17:59:11 | AlexEditor | yep just checking out ui for clip+ which i'll be trying this on |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:00:46 | AlexEditor | is it more difficult to develop rb for newer devices? like touchscreens, video playback and stuff |
| 18:02:12 | gevaerts | It depends. Actual hardware support probably isn't more difficult, but touchscreens obviously provide new UI challenges, and we haven't fully adapted to that yet |
| 18:03:15 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 18:03:18 | gevaerts | We've had mpeg1 and mpeg2 playback for a while now. It's not integrated in the regular playback system though, so no playlists and things like that for video. We really tend to focus on audio first |
| 18:05:24 | AlexEditor | i was also wondering, how do you actually implement different codecs on these players? I'm not an engineer, but i thought these little gadgets have some specialized hardware that is designed to play some certain codecs and it would be difficult to support, say, monkey audio. how do you accomplish that? |
| 18:06:13 | AlexEditor | or am i wrong and the cpus are quite generic? |
| 18:06:31 | gevaerts | You used to be right :) |
| 18:07:46 | gevaerts | The old Archoses only have mpeg audio (mp3 and mp2 IIRC). Newer players just do everything on a regular arm or coldfire cpu (or mips, but we don't have many of those) |
| 18:10:04 | Mode | "#rockbox +v gevaerts" by funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 18:10:06 | Mode | "#rockbox -o funman" by funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 18:10:26 | gevaerts | monkeysaudio is a bit special though. It has quite high CPU requirements, especially for higher compression levels. I think we can handle -c1000 on all players (except the Archoses obviously), but we only have one single player (and it's not even on the "stable" list...) that can handle -c5000, and that's really just barely |
| 18:10:35 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 18:10:35 | * | gevaerts glares at funman |
| 18:11:12 | AlexEditor | any idea what kind of cpus are used in cheap chinese dealextreme players? :) |
| 18:11:25 | funman | open them to know |
| 18:12:26 | AlexEditor | and yeah, monkey audio is what surprised me most |
| 18:12:28 | AlexEditor | quite a feat |
| 18:12:49 | desowin | AlexEditor: you mean the s1mp3 ones? |
| 18:12:54 | gevaerts | At least a few years ago, the *really* cheap players tended to have some sort of 8 bit CPU, a DSP for mp3 and whatever other codec they support, and a few hundred kilobytes of RAM |
| 18:13:13 | bertrik | mp3 or ogg take about 30 MHz on an ARM. A popular player like the sansa clip+ can easily handle that, it runs at max 240 MHz. |
| 18:13:53 | AlexEditor | desowin: heh i didn't know it's called that, but yeah |
| 18:14:38 | bertrik | gevaerts, funman I think all of our current stable targets are 32-bit right? |
| 18:14:45 | gevaerts | They are, yes |
| 18:14:56 | gevaerts | If http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SoundCodecMonkeysAudio is still up to date, I suspect your clip+ *may* be able to handle monkeysaudio -c4000 |
| 18:15:33 | gevaerts | That sort of thing tends not to be good for your battery life though :) |
| 18:16:42 | AlexEditor | heh just barely it seems |
| 18:17:23 | AlexEditor | so anyway, what are the biggest challenges when porting rb to a new device? like, if you'd want to support nano 7g or so |
| 18:17:53 | Mode | "#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 18:17:59 | Mode | "#rockbox +v funman" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
| 18:18:13 | Mode | "#rockbox -v gevaerts" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts) |
| 18:18:17 | AlexEditor | or 8g :) |
| 18:18:19 | Mode | "#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 18:18:42 | * | gevaerts hands the microphone to funman or pamaury :) |
| 18:19:03 | gevaerts | I haven't been involved with actual porting, so I can't really answer that |
| 18:19:23 | desowin | AlexEditor: what do you mean by "new"? newly released or not supported yet? |
| 18:19:47 | bertrik | IMO, in general it takes a smart person, with the right skills (reverse engineering, C and ASM knowledge), owning the new device, who also happens to have a lot of free time and a lot of perseverance |
| 18:19:55 | funman | AlexEditor: i think you need great deals of patience, humility, and other people's help |
| 18:19:59 | desowin | AlexEditor: in some cases, the cryptography used in device is blocking factor |
| 18:20:21 | funman | and an illegal copy of ida pro^W^W^W^W^W^W objdump |
| 18:20:39 | bertrik | in particular, newer apple players appear to have a lot of encryption stuff |
| 18:21:02 | AlexEditor | desowin: especially new architecture, so not like from clip to clip+, but something qiute new |
| 18:21:07 | AlexEditor | aha |
| 18:21:14 | AlexEditor | yeah sounds like apple |
| 18:21:24 | AlexEditor | :P |
| 18:22:32 | bertrik | basically the same requirements, but more of it :) |
| 18:23:21 | funman | a lot of ports were "easily" made thanks to different players using the same architecture |
| 18:23:39 | funman | "clip" to "clip+" wasn't actually that easy. it was an 12:21 <ringo> and that one has packet loss for at least one of my HD streams … but that is lower priority |
| 18:23:42 | funman | 12:21 <funman> !that might be part of the wishlist: fix the decoder |
| 18:23:44 | funman | 12:21 <ringo> http://www.bcpa.net/ |
| 18:23:53 | | Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6) |
| 18:24:04 | * | funman need an anti copy/paste |
| 18:24:17 | funman | ... architecture upgrade |
| 18:24:28 | bertrik | the first step is usually to find a way to run your own code on the device, like find some kind of USB boot mode, or injecting your own code into a firmware upgrade |
| 18:24:49 | desowin | ...or tear it all apart and find JTAG |
| 18:25:13 | gevaerts | Developer-owned players tend to have been opened at least once :) |
| 18:29:01 | AlexEditor | does the work often require meddling with the hardware itself? |
| 18:29:09 | desowin | AlexEditor: and beside finding a way to run custom code, the other big obstacle is (sometimes) having to deal with chips without publicly available datasheets |
| 18:29:38 | desowin | AlexEditor: for Sansa Connect, I have done a lot of hardware hacking (in fact, there still isn't purely software method to run Rockbox on it) |
| 18:30:46 | AlexEditor | i often wonder why the companies don't just support or even use such firmware |
| 18:31:04 | AlexEditor | i have a wi-fi router with dd-wrt and it blows the original fw out of the water |
| 18:31:19 | desowin | sometimes it's caused by licenses from third parties |
| 18:31:24 | AlexEditor | hm right |
| 18:32:11 | AlexEditor | i guess if it's not backed by someone like google in case of android they might be afraid of lawsuits and stuff |
| 18:32:16 | bertrik | In general, we don't get that much help from the DAP manufacturers |
| 18:33:27 | AlexEditor | i'd ask how do you actually write support for unknown daps but i probably wouldn't understand the reply after the first two words, right :) |
| 18:33:28 | bertrik | basically none, with perhaps two or three exceptions (AFAIK) |
| 18:33:51 | desowin | AlexEditor: unknown daps or unknown chips? |
| 18:34:06 | AlexEditor | well, chips |
| 18:34:15 | AlexEditor | any kind |
| 18:34:22 | desowin | reverse engineer original firmware is easiest |
| 18:35:05 | desowin | that is, when the manufacturer will refuse to give any docs even under NDA (or under NDA wchich prevents releasing source code) |
| 18:35:31 | desowin | (manufacturer = chip manufacturer, not necessary the same as DAP manufacturer) |
| 18:37:02 | AlexEditor | so if there's lot of encryption if the original firmware, this process becomes quite a bitch, right? |
| 18:37:24 | bertrik | yes |
| 18:38:07 | bertrik | for the newer apple players, it took a lot of effort |
| 18:38:33 | bertrik | some players use encryption, but with a trivial key (like the sansa fuze+) |
| 18:39:26 | desowin | Connect uses RSA 2048-bit key |
| 18:40:11 | bertrik | Earlier sandisk sansa players (e200, c200) used encryption, but tried to hide the key in plain text in the bootloader :) |
| 18:40:21 | AlexEditor | :) |
| 18:40:30 | AlexEditor | so what if you can't get into the original fw? |
| 18:41:16 | desowin | AlexEditor: in some cases it's not really encryption as just signing |
| 18:41:47 | desowin | AlexEditor: which means the thing that it's preveting you from is just running unsigned (custom) code |
| 18:42:18 | AlexEditor | that prevention against unsigned code can lie directly in the hardware? |
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| 18:43:26 | desowin | AlexEditor: well, there are crypto memories on the market... but I doubt any DAP on the market uses that to prevent running unsigned code |
| 18:43:34 | | Join rarog [0] (~4ff5c7a9@www.haxx.se) |
| 18:44:00 | rarog | hello, I'm having problems registering myself on the wiki |
| 18:44:03 | desowin | AlexEditor: but it really depends what you mean by that question |
| 18:44:50 | rarog | I get "suspisios change request" page and don't get andy confirmation mail |
| 18:44:55 | rarog | *any |
| 18:45:22 | desowin | AlexEditor: often it's some sort of bootloader that does the check |
| 18:45:39 | AlexEditor | hm |
| 18:45:41 | AlexEditor | so |
| 18:45:55 | AlexEditor | the original bootloader usually stays? |
| 18:46:19 | desowin | AlexEditor: and the thing needed is in such cases, to patch that check (this involes finding some exploitable bug and a way to overwrite the bootloader (in case of Connect it requires applying high voltage)) |
| 18:46:36 | AlexEditor | um now i get it |
| 18:47:16 | AlexEditor | i thought rb overwrites the whole fw including the bootloader, so i didn't understand the problem about unsigned code |
| 18:47:19 | AlexEditor | sry |
| 18:47:58 | desowin | AlexEditor: but well, most what I say is the case of Sansa Connect, don't assume it's the same everywhere |
| 18:48:49 | AlexEditor | yeah sure, i read on wiki about rockbox bootloader, so i thought it' used all the time |
| 18:49:00 | AlexEditor | i see it's different on various players |
| 18:49:41 | desowin | AlexEditor: yes, it's used, but in some cases it's not really overwritting the code that's being run right after power-on due to some reasons |
| 18:50:08 | desowin | such a reason can be really hard way to debrick the player if that gets damaged |
| 18:50:28 | AlexEditor | where did you people learn this low-level stuff? |
| 18:51:03 | AlexEditor | :) |
| 18:52:39 | | Quit rarog (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
| 18:53:00 | desowin | AlexEditor: it works something like "core bootloader" (which can handle recovery modes or something) -> Rockbox bootloader -> main firmware |
| 18:54:56 | AlexEditor | i see |
| 18:55:48 | desowin | if you read into datasheets, you can sometimes find a few-stage bootloaders |
| 18:56:49 | desowin | where the first stage for example is in on-chip ROM which loads the next stage bootlaoder from NAND or something |
| 18:57:36 | desowin | and the engineer don't really have a way to replace that ROM code :P |
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| 18:58:29 | | Quit thomasjfox (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 18:59:11 | AlexEditor | except replacing the chip probably |
| 18:59:31 | desowin | finding a drop in replacement for SoC is really difficult |
| 18:59:47 | AlexEditor | i can imagine |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:01 | desowin | but yeah, if you are capable of manufacturing modified versions of chips, why not :D |
| 19:00:35 | AlexEditor | mod-chips for mp3s like for the old playstations :) |
| 19:00:55 | desowin | AlexEditor: mod chip is way easier to do than what I just said |
| 19:01:19 | AlexEditor | i know, just kiddn' |
| 19:02:45 | AlexEditor | okay, back to more manageable problems, if the original firmware is encrypted, how do you learn about the hardware specs? if the data is not available that is |
| 19:03:17 | desowin | disassemble the player and look at the components markings |
| 19:03:55 | desowin | that can give a rough idea about what to expect from it (ie. architecture) |
| 19:04:16 | AlexEditor | say the architecture is sort-of known but some chips are new |
| 19:04:58 | desowin | AlexEditor: well, look at websites of big players like TI |
| 19:05:42 | desowin | as long as the chips aren't semi-custom or full-custom it shouldn't be that hard to find any info about them |
| 19:06:09 | desowin | (any doesn't mean datasheet) |
| 19:07:53 | AlexEditor | and if the chip is custom or the information is really scarce? |
| 19:08:13 | desowin | if the chip is custom there usually is literally no information at all |
| 19:08:32 | AlexEditor | can you still work around it somehow? |
| 19:08:35 | Bagder | although custom chips are often similar to non-custom ones |
| 19:08:44 | Bagder | like the ipod ones |
| 19:10:18 | AlexEditor | so the most likely cation is to find the closest chip family, try to run the code you have and then debug it? |
| 19:10:22 | AlexEditor | *action |
| 19:11:30 | desowin | AlexEditor: what is the desired audience for that article? |
| 19:11:59 | desowin | I guess it's not targeted for people with ee or cs degree, right? |
| 19:12:05 | | Join webguest85 [0] (~182a1fa4@www.haxx.se) |
| 19:12:13 | AlexEditor | no |
| 19:12:23 | AlexEditor | customers mostly |
| 19:12:49 | | Quit webguest85 (Client Quit) |
| 19:13:08 | AlexEditor | i'm not a programmer myself |
| 19:14:09 | | Join alienkid10 [0] (~alienkid@unaffiliated/alienkid10) |
| 19:14:20 | alienkid10 | metaphysis: it's ok |
| 19:14:31 | alienkid10 | was just locked up somehow |
| 19:14:43 | alienkid10 | I was scared there for awhile |
| 19:15:22 | alienkid10 | it's out of warranty so I was like eck |
| 19:15:46 | desowin | AlexEditor: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/NewPort - have you read that? |
| 19:15:47 | metaphysis | <alienkid10>:yeah it happen to me once I I was pretty scare too! ;)) |
| 19:15:51 | alienkid10 | according to OF still a good 40% but I'll charge it now |
| 19:16:06 | alienkid10 | metaphysis: glad to know I'm not alone |
| 19:17:02 | Bagder | AlexEditor: when reverse engineering parts that speak to peripherals, comparing command or init sequences with known datasheets have helped to find similar documented chips |
| 19:18:03 | alienkid10 | thanks for reminding me of hard reset. I've never need to do it before |
| 19:19:00 | alienkid10 | metaphysis: go ahead and delete my posts on the thread |
| 19:21:04 | AlexEditor | desowin: i read it, just asking for more details (but not as much as the PortingHowTo) |
| 19:21:28 | metaphysis | alienkid10: I can't do that but someone will probably do anyway. For such urgency help irc is probably the first place to come... |
| 19:22:03 | AlexEditor | okay guys thanks for now, i'll leave ya :) since i see this channel is alive, i'll check back someday when i'll need some clarification |
| 19:22:17 | alienkid10 | metaphysis: yeah. I don't have IRC client on this OS yet and didn't know there was a web client |
| 19:22:18 | AlexEditor | keep up the good work |
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| 19:26:00 | AlexEditor | bai |
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| 19:26:27 | desowin | AlexEditor: to get any more details you need to know a bit about electronics engineering, and if you do, you woldn't probably ask such questions ;-) |
| 19:26:30 | desowin | too late |
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| 19:28:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:31:57 | CIA-1 | New commit by dreamlayers (r31345): Add const to global pointers to strings. ... |
| 19:34:05 | CIA-1 | r31345 build result: All green |
| 19:41:42 | dreamlayers | the web server sends charset=iso-8859-1, but data shown from svn has utf-8 text. |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:40:46 | James_Hunt | Hi. Please, can anyone approve this updated translation to SVN? Passed more than 2 weeks. I'm worried. http://rockbox.org/tracker/task/12420 |
| 20:42:59 | jhMikeS | bertrik: it's just a writeback of data to make it coherent with the uncached alias, so yes, commit should be enough |
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| 20:47:44 | | Quit metaphysis (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 20:50:49 | desowin | James_Hunt: sorry if it's rude, but is James Hunt your real name? doesn't sound like Russian name (I guess basing on the translation language) |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:24:20 | CIA-1 | New commit by bertrik (r31346): FS #12370: Initial RDS support for Si4701/Si4703 tuner (beast and clip zip) |
| 21:26:31 | CIA-1 | r31346 build result: 4 errors, 0 warnings (bertrik committed) |
| 21:27:07 | * | bertrik thinks of a quick hack for that |
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| 21:34:30 | CIA-1 | New commit by bertrik (r31347): Try to fix r31346 |
| 21:36:27 | CIA-1 | r31347 build result: All green |
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| 21:47:18 | scanf | okay, so owners of players with small onboard storage that are also using a micro sdhc card: how do you handle keeping them synchronized to your music collection |
| 21:47:33 | scanf | i have 20gb of music and 4gb onboard and 16gb sdhc |
| 21:47:46 | scanf | how do i strip it over both properly |
| 21:47:51 | scanf | Best Practises etc |
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| 21:53:16 | * | amiconn usually just ignores the internal storage for music |
| 21:54:05 | bertrik | I do the same on my clip+ and clip zip, no music on the internal storage makes an OF database refresh much quicker |
| 21:55:21 | scanf | they show up as seperate devices i suppose |
| 21:55:39 | scanf | i guess ill just use the 4gb internal as a flash drive storage and the 16gb sdhc for music |
| 21:55:55 | WalkGood | i load card via card reader and leave card out till i boot to rb |
| 21:56:15 | * | gevaerts points out that the internal memory *is* a flash storage device, as is the sdhc card |
| 21:56:50 | amiconn | gevaerts: Some of the raaa targets do handle ape -c5000 as well. The n900 even does so easily (thanks to being armv7 and using neon code), and the faster android devices should handle it too |
| 21:57:22 | amiconn | When built for >=armv6 at least, that is |
| 21:57:47 | | Quit WalkGood (Quit: gtr later) |
| 21:57:59 | gevaerts | Right. I forgot about raaa |
| 21:58:51 | scanf | what rsync line do you guys use |
| 21:59:14 | scanf | (just bought the clip zip) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:05:15 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 22:09:46 | funman | amiconn: do you read the development ML? |
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| 22:13:19 | ukleinek | what does raaa mean? |
| 22:16:51 | dfkt | rockbox as an application |
| 22:17:01 | dfkt | for android, so far |
| 22:17:27 | ukleinek | dfkt: ah, thanks |
| 22:17:53 | amiconn | Also for the N900 (which is not android but maemo) |
| 22:18:13 | amiconn | funman: I'm subscribed to it, but not really following it atm |
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| 22:20:08 | | Quit y4n (Quit: Today is the perfect day for a perfect day.) |
| 22:20:15 | funman | amiconn: check 'HWCODEC' thread please |
| 22:20:28 | scanf | what target should i select for the sandisk clip zip |
| 22:20:30 | scanf | clip+? |
| 22:20:45 | funman | clip zip |
| 22:20:55 | scanf | its not there |
| 22:21:04 | funman | svn rev? |
| 22:21:41 | scanf | no its the 1.2.11 |
| 22:21:52 | scanf | i want to use the installer |
| 22:21:59 | scanf | not really trying to compile if i donthave to |
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| 22:23:46 | saratoga_ | scanf: the zip isn't handled by the installer yet |
| 22:25:52 | scanf | so how do i install i |
| 22:27:36 | funman | check on anythingbutipod forum |
| 22:27:39 | saratoga_ | you need to copy a patched firmware file to the player, i think theres one on anything but ipod in the zip forum, or you can compile one yourself |
| 22:32:03 | funman | we should make a clipzip bootloader even if usb isnt fully functional |
| 22:32:56 | scanf | i need the OF and bootloader |
| 22:33:10 | | Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
| 22:33:34 | funman | scanf: get the OF on sansa forums, and funman/bootloader-clipzip.sansa">http://people.videolan.org/~funman/bootloader-clipzip.sansa |
| 22:36:14 | | Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) |
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| 22:37:49 | scanf | okay, what is the 'usb mode' they keep talking about |
| 22:37:53 | scanf | is there a setting i need to hit on the player |
| 22:38:25 | scanf | and will i be able to transfer from my PC to the sdhc card over usb thru the clip zip? or will i need an sdhc reader/writer |
| 22:38:48 | funman | funman/clip-zip-01.01.17.zip">http://people.videolan.org/~funman/clip-zip-01.01.17.zip |
| 22:39:02 | funman | scanf: you ask too many questions, just install it and see for yourself ;) |
| 22:41:17 | | Join semitones [0] (8255f9cc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.130.85.249.204) |
| 22:41:39 | semitones | hey, I have some bad news |
| 22:41:54 | semitones | my new Sansa Clip+ broke the same way the other one did |
| 22:42:04 | semitones | 32 mb disk, no partition table. |
| 22:42:27 | scanf | hmm |
| 22:42:29 | scanf | funman: ok |
| 22:42:32 | scanf | but im getting |
| 22:42:33 | scanf | [ERR] Model name "clzp" unknown. Is this really a rockbox bootloader? |
| 22:42:36 | scanf | [ERR] Could not load bootloader-clipzip.sansa |
| 22:42:46 | scanf | when i do $ ./mkamsboot clpzt.bin bootloader-clipzip.sansa patched.bin |
| 22:42:49 | semitones | In the days before it broke, there would be a rockbox error message that flashed up as it was booting |
| 22:42:54 | funman | scanf: OS ? |
| 22:42:58 | scanf | linux |
| 22:43:07 | funman | 32 or 64 bits? |
| 22:43:10 | scanf | 64 |
| 22:43:44 | funman | funman/mkamsboot.x86_64">http://people.videolan.org/~funman/mkamsboot.x86_64 |
| 22:44:16 | funman | semitones: can you dd the first kbyte of the device? |
| 22:46:17 | semitones | funman: I can try, can you give me a command or a link to a command |
| 22:47:21 | semitones | in particular the part where I'd limit dd to 1 kb |
| 22:47:29 | semitones | kB |
| 22:48:11 | funman | dd if=/dev/sdb count=2 | xxd |
| 22:48:29 | semitones | what is xxd? |
| 22:48:35 | funman | hex dump |
| 22:48:48 | semitones | ok, thanks, here it goes |
| 22:49:42 | semitones | funman: success. Do you want to see any of the output? |
| 22:50:52 | semitones | 00003f0: 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 ................ |
| 22:51:25 | semitones | that's the last line. The beginning eight numbers changes, but after the ":" the zeros are the same on each line |
| 22:52:03 | desowin | the beginning is offset, so it has to change |
| 22:52:09 | scanf | funman: thanks it works :) |
| 22:52:13 | semitones | I have to go soon, is there anything I can do to help now |
| 22:52:17 | scanf | now to setup the sdhc |
| 22:52:20 | semitones | or should I just come back later when I have time |
| 22:53:04 | semitones | i think this might be an actual bug in rockbox since it happened twice |
| 22:54:29 | semitones | alright I'm leaving. send me a memo on irc with instructions on how to help, or that i don't need too |
| 22:54:41 | funman | semitones: can you put it on pastie.org ? |
| 22:54:58 | funman | semitones: ah it's all zero? |
| 22:55:06 | semitones | yes |
| 22:55:39 | semitones | http://pastie.org/3033360 |
| 22:55:58 | saratoga_ | disconnected nand chip maybe |
| 22:55:59 | funman | dunno what you can do sorry |
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| 22:57:06 | semitones | so can you tell if it's software or hardware from that? |
| 22:57:08 | desowin | semitones: stupid question, is sdb the player? |
| 22:57:33 | semitones | desowin: yes. it's the only thing plugged in that's not my hard drive |
| 22:58:02 | | Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 22:58:03 | semitones | there's an sd card plugged into the player, but it's not showing up as a separate disk at all |
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| 22:59:47 | semitones | I did buy an extended warrantee this time. Do you think they'd be able to tell I'd installed rockbox, based on what they'd find plugging it in? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:05 | semitones | I can tell them it just stopped working, which is true |
| 23:01:23 | funman | i'd tell them that exactly |
| 23:01:37 | funman | can you boot OF? if not, it's broken |
| 23:02:04 | semitones | it's broken. the warranty was a good investment :p |
| 23:02:16 | semitones | does this ever happen to you funman? |
| 23:03:33 | funman | it sort of happened on a clipv1 but it had suffered physical damage too |
| 23:05:18 | scanf | doh |
| 23:05:36 | scanf | usb doesnt seem to work, file descriptor errors when trying to mount it with SDHC card in it :( |
| 23:05:56 | funman | i was thinking the 32MB drive was the recovery drive, but it would have been the capacity of your player (e.g. 4GB) |
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| 23:24:29 | * | scanf is still trying to figure out what button to hit on his clipzip to 'done' a text entry or save |
| 23:24:34 | scanf | the top button seems to be cancel |
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| 23:28:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:32:35 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
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| 23:43:01 | scanf | how expensive is somethign like mkfs.vfat -c -F32 -n "rbox_storage" /dev/mmcblk0p1 |
| 23:43:14 | scanf | its been going for 20 minutes and even moving the mouse has a laggy delay |
| 23:43:20 | scanf | (16gb sdhc) |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).