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#rockbox log for 2012-01-13

00:03:39 Quit robin0800 (Quit: Leaving)
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00:11:54 Part jlbiasini
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00:19:06 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120104111456])
00:32:45amiconngevaerts, bluebrother: The greylib registers a screendump extension function, so screendump works with greylib. If it throws a stkov, it's actually a too small stack
00:33:33gevaertsok, so greylib targets need a bigger usb stack
00:37:38amiconnEither that, or the screendump stack usage needs to be reduced
00:43:47*gevaerts nods
00:43:53amiconnOn Clip+ grey_screendump_hook needs 524 bytes of stack
00:44:00amiconnThat's not *that* much
00:45:13 Quit TomColler (Remote host closed the connection)
00:47:18gevaertsYes, but the USB stack is only 1KB plus the size of one line
00:47:28gevaertsSo 524 bytes is huge in comparison
00:48:06amiconnOne line of what?
00:48:12 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
00:48:36gevaertsWell, if I read the code correctly
00:48:53gevaertsIt used to also have SECTOR_SIZE, but TheSeven did some fat work to make that unneeded. I suspect this is what broke greylib
00:49:22 Quit shapr (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:50:41amiconnThe grey_screendump_hook buffer is used for two things: first the colour lookup table is built there, and after that it's reused for one line of bmp pixels
00:52:57amiconnOn small screens like the clip, the clut is larger (512 bytes, actually that's just one half for split screen colours) than the pixel line (128 bytes)
00:53:50amiconnThe buffer could be reduced to 128 bytes at the cost of either calling write() for every clut entry, or adding some more complexity to write the clut in several chunks
01:00:03gevaertsIs that worth it? I'd say we just work out how to calculate the extra room needed and add it to usb_stack[]
01:02:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:03:46amiconnThe question is what else is already on the usb stack at the time grey_screendump_hook() is called
01:04:40amiconnSince all greyscale targets have low resolution, the clut dictates the buffer size. 512 bytes on the Clips, 516 bytes on all other greylib targets
01:05:59gevaertsTo be honest, I never really understood what's in that kilobyte anyway.
01:06:00amiconnThe reason for the difference is that the screendump reduces the 129 shades of the greylib (129*4=516) to 128 shades on the Clips, because they need two complete gradients
01:25:12gevaertsamiconn: would any plugins suffer if that buffer were made static?
01:25:31gevaertsFunctionally I don't think it has to be on the stack
01:26:07gevaertsBut of course on lowmem devices adding half a kilobyte to a plugin is not negligible
01:26:34amiconnIt doesn't need to be on the stack, but then it's waste those 512 bytes in every plugin using the greylib
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01:32:01*gevaerts doesn't really like the idea of allocating a buffer in firmware/ with a size that depends on implementation details in apps/plugins
01:32:12gevaertsI don't see a decent alternative though
01:34:03amiconnThe question is how costly 128 calls of write(..., 4) are in comparison to one write(..., 512)
01:36:59amiconnThe screendump doesn't need to be optimised for speed after all, it just needs to be fast enough to not miss the frame you want to dump (comparable to a camera's shutter lag)
01:39:04*gevaerts nods
01:41:39gevaertsI don't really have any idea exactly how inefficient small writes are in rockbox
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02:35:07sin613Is there a centralized location for discarding/selling 'rockbox stable' DAPs I don't use/need anymore?
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02:49:53soap_so long as it is done in the open, and w/o bidding the forums are acceptable.
02:50:04 Nick soap_ is now known as soap (~soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
02:50:39soapBut, in direct answer to your question sin613, there is no centralized location.
02:52:07soapIf you have a DAP which is particularly well suited for blind use the user mailing list seems to have a higher percentage of blind users than the forums. Again we'd ask the same "rules".
03:02:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:09:38sin613thanks, soap. is the iaudio x5 well suited for blind use?
03:15:36shaprHi, I have a ClipZip... I'm using "not fully released" firmware, but it works great... except for one minor problem... I don't know how to "lock" the player?
03:15:56shaprI tried reading the manuals for other players, but didn't see anything about locking there either.
03:21:41JdGordonshapr: gimme a sec, checking for you
03:23:20JdGordonshapr: err, home+select in the WPS should do it
03:24:44shaprhm, thanks!
03:27:55*shapr tries
03:28:39shaprPS. if you want to see my rockbox advertisement in Google Plus:
03:30:00shaprJdGordon: It works, thanks!
03:30:39JdGordonno worries
03:32:40shaprI was happily surprised by how quickly RockBox builds a database with 14gb of music.
03:37:21-->"ods 200" received from cgthayer (
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06:31:12FrenchVerbshey everyone I have a couple questions. First, does rockbox support 24bit audio? Second, when doing a large file transfer (100gb+) to my iPod classic, all of the sudden it stops functioning, and I have to reboot. how do I fix this?
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07:02:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:05:56pixelmahmm, reading the "Setting up Gerrit" part on UsingGit - I'm not sure if this is possible with a GUIless VM as I have used here on my Windows PC. Could someone explain?
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07:12:48JdGordonwhat's the problem?
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07:13:38JdGordonpixelma: the only thing you cant (easily) do over ssh is the logging into gerrit (which you dont need to do from the vm)
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07:15:39pixelmaah, that works independently - I thought they'd need to interact somehow. So setting up Gerrit itself on the Windows box and still using the git repo through the VM should work?
07:17:38pixelmaand the ssh key could still be generated running the command in the VM? Sorry to sound like a newbie, haven't dealt with ssh keys much yet
07:19:18pixelmaok, I'll try. Thanks so far :)
07:43:22pixelmaworked so far, now in step 6 - the ssh:// address. If my checkout is not under a "rockbox" folder, does that change the last part of the aforementioned address?
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10:17:12gevaertspixelma: that ssh url is independent of where you put things locally
10:21:02CIA-81New commit by Dominik.Riebeling (r420ae56cec28): rbspeex: make local functions static.
10:22:54kugelrather long for the short sha1? there|s a superflous r in the front too
10:23:36kugels/real name/irc nick/ isn't possible is it?
10:23:57pixelmagevaerts: thanks for confirming. I thought so but didn't want to make a mistake in these "set an forget" things
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10:24:17Zagorthe hook doesn't see the nick at all, just the name+email
10:24:42ZagorI guess it can maybe be dug out of gerrit, but I don't know how
10:28:01CIA-81Commit by Dominik.Riebeling (420ae56): rbspeex: make local functions static.
10:28:14Zagorslightly shorter
10:31:40kugelI set up a rockbox organisation on github if we want a mirror there (before it's taken away again), apparently the namet became free (was taken by a user before)
10:33:13Zagorok, good
10:34:15kugelZagor, B4gder: I invited you into the owner team too. if anyone else also wants an invitation speak up
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10:48:51ZagorI think showing something like "v3.10branch+372" as pseudo revision would be rather nice on cia and the web pages
10:50:47Zagoror "v3.10+372" even, for the trunk
10:51:11Zagoror... uh... everything can be misunderstood :)
10:51:29gevaerts420ae56 can't :)
10:51:42Zagorright, because it's not understood in the first place
10:51:42gevaertsIt also can't be understood correctly of course
10:52:07kugelit can be understood by scripts that generate a link to gitweb :)
11:02:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:13:51wodzI think it is better to leave short sha - this is at least unambiguous. People get used to and thous which will care will understand
11:14:38wodzThats the cost of DVCS
11:15:15kugelwouldnt hurt if the branch was added to the message though
11:15:56wodzyeah could be - but with svn branch wasn'
11:16:01wodzt displayed either
11:19:45Zagorcommit count is not incompatible with dvcs
11:19:56CIA-81Commit by bjorn (1ef9039): Changed irc log directory.
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11:21:15Zagorbasically I'd like to get git-describe, but showing only v* tags
11:21:29Zagornot sure what I'm doing wrong
11:24:04wodzZagor: Have you looked at APE ( as possible solution for irc viewer? I was thinking about looking as I can hack something based on theirs examples. I would prefer to get your opinion before I start something however.
11:25:36Zagorno I haven't
11:35:11wodzZagor: when you find some time please look at this and leave me msg in logs if you think this is doable considering tech aspects/server infrastructure/whatever
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11:42:12akavelhi! on Sansa Clip+, after some random juggling themes, I seem to have lost icons and scrollbar in the file browser; not sure which theme is the 'default' which would maybe restore this, or is it some additional option? could someone help?
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11:43:44gevaertsakavel: the default theme is cabbiev2
11:44:06gevaertsIf all else fails, you can always reset all settings
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12:05:00TorneZagor: git describe showing only v* tags would do nothing, for all trunk revisions
12:05:03Torneby definition
12:05:08Tornesince the releases are not on trunk
12:05:21Torneit would also do nothing for any branch revision that was before the release
12:05:32Zagorright, we need branch head tags
12:05:42Tornethat's also irrelevant/useless
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12:06:29Zagorgo on?
12:06:33Torneto get describe to output something useful you need to tag the first commit after the branch point on both sides of the branch
12:06:41Torneusing a different naming scheme or similar
12:06:57Tornei fiddled with this, it's doable
12:07:00Tornebut.. kinda confusing
12:07:06Torneand means they will change retroactively :)
12:07:08Zagorthat's what I mean with branch head. the commit on trunk where the branch was done
12:07:21Tornethat's not the head
12:07:23Tornethe head is the other end
12:07:44Zagorbranch *point* then
12:08:22Torneonly tagging the branch point is also not great as that means that commits on master and commits ont he branch will have the same identifier
12:08:26Torne(apart from their SHA)
12:09:07Tornewhen we branch, do we always branch from the latest version?
12:09:22Zagorususally, yes
12:09:38Tornebecause if we ever didn't, that'd present an additional problem
12:09:57Torneadding the tags after more commits have been submitted would cause the identifiers to change after the fact :)
12:09:59Zagorwe can use different naming schemes for trunk and branch.
12:10:25Zagormaybe not even using describe on branch
12:10:37Tornebeing able to do the same thing consistently seems useful, though
12:10:55Torneexcept you can't do it consistently for everything, no matter what you try, really :)
12:11:20Zagoryes, I consider it more important to be usable/elegant on trunk than consistent over branches
12:11:54Tornewell, the simplest thing to do for trunk is git rev-list −−count HEAD
12:11:54Zagorsince that's 95% of visible commits
12:12:16Tornethis currently returns 30096, though
12:12:34Tornewhich is notable for being 1500 smaller than the last svn revision number :)
12:12:40Tornewhich may cause some user confusion :)
12:13:22Zagoryeah I don't want to svn number, I want "commits in this version"
12:14:25Torneso. if we tagged the commit *after* the branch point, on master, with v3.11-dev ?
12:14:46Torne(could also tag the start of the branch with v3.11-pre or similar
12:15:33ZagorI'm struggling to come up with an elegant tag name...
12:15:46Tornethen the versions leading up to a release would go X-dev (when on master) X-pre X-rc X
12:15:53Tornewell, X-final but we don't need to show that
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12:17:27Tornewe can also do this without describe and tags, with rev-list
12:17:42gevaertsDon't you basically want "git rev-list −−count v3.10..master"?
12:18:20Tornegit rev-list git rev-list −−count HEAD −−not −−remotes=origin/v\*
12:18:31Torneonly one git rev-list there
12:18:40Torneor similar
12:18:42Zagorgevaerts: except v3.10 is the head of the branch. does that really show all commits since the branch was made?
12:19:00Torneas we discussed yesterday
12:19:03gevaertsZagor: that's the .. vs ... difference we talked about a few days ago
12:19:04Torneor the day before, i forget
12:19:26Torneif you use a wildcard −−branch or −−remotes then it can exclude *all* of them :)
12:19:31Tornethough v* is a bit of a dodgy wildcard
12:19:40Tornesince, yaknow, words that start with v.
12:20:33Torne(you want to use HEAD not master in case you are building something other than the latest version)
12:22:32Torne(and yes, x..y is just a shorthand for y −−not x)
12:23:17TorneThis isn't too bad
12:23:36TorneIn fact, if we assume a particular remote setup (as the bots will have) then i could probably write a script that just figures it out
12:23:44Tornebased on what branches exist and whether HEAD is on a branch
12:23:53TorneIt won't be robust for people's own clones
12:24:20TorneI'll have a go at that in a few
12:24:46Tornei think all it needs to assume is "there is a remote called $ROCKBOX which is our git repo"
12:24:54Tornewhere $ROCKBOX defaults to 'origin'
12:33:47akavelgevaerts: thanks; although as for now, it got me only second Data abort today :)
12:36:37ZagorTorne: I'm considering this only for irc and web display purposes, not actual use
12:38:24Tornei know, but i think if we can come up with a scheme that works for that then we can actually use it just as easily
12:38:29Tornegimme a sec to try this script idea
12:38:35Tornei think it might work okay
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13:02:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:03:26soapsin613, Yes, the iAudio X5 is quite well suited for blind use as it has Real Buttons which give some tactile feedback.
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13:36:44pixelmasoap: depends a bit on the state of its joystick... which is quite crappy. That's not the only way to operate it but wrongly detected button presses may be a bit disturbing for the blind
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19:00:03jhMikeSis it not possible to still have sequential revisions through some sort of mapping <id> => <revision>? yes, we synthesize it ourselves.
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22:36:45funmansomeone with a nano2g or classic ?
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22:54:32biopytehi. is it possible to install a new build offline ... (download file and install later without internet connection) using the rb utility?
22:55:29bluebrother^not really
22:56:02bluebrother^there's this offline mode (in the cache settings) which makes it operate from cache only.
22:56:18bluebrother^but that is kinda broken and pretty much unmaintained
23:00:17funmanyou can download it from though it's just a zip file
23:01:07bluebrother^now it gets really nice: I cannot reproduce the TTS issue on this C2D machine running Vista at all. But when trying to use the evaluation version of the Infovox voices cscript crashes :(
23:02:44bluebrother^biopyte, funman: that only works if you only want to install a build and not a bootloader.
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23:03:18bluebrother^though depending on the device you can patch a bootloader first and copy that manually along with extracting the build zip
23:05:29biopytebuild only
23:06:25biopyteso its not recommended
23:06:50bluebrother^well, installing a build only is nothing that's not recommended.
23:07:05bluebrother^but for most users it's way easier to use Rockbox Utility
23:07:37biopyteoffline i cant use the utility?
23:07:39bluebrother^developers usually use the manual installation since it doesn't make sense to wait for a new current build just to test things :)
23:07:52biopyteuse a special offline installer?
23:08:00bluebrother^how that?
23:08:05bluebrother^and more importantly, why?
23:08:21biopytei'm asking
23:08:22bluebrother^but feel free to submit a patch that creates a special offline version of Rockbox Utility :)
23:08:35bluebrother^nobody did that up to now
23:09:11biopyteso, once i have the build ... how do i proceed with the manual install?
23:09:26bluebrother^unzip the file to the root of the player
23:09:40biopytethats all?
23:09:44bluebrother^on Linux this usually ends up as something like "unzip -d /media/MYPLAYER"
23:09:52bluebrother^well, the manual describes it ...
23:10:10biopyteand then reboot
23:11:00[Saint]Couldn't you put RButil on a USB drive, setup RButil's cache so its in the USB drive also, download the needed files while online, then point RButil to the cache again when you've reached your destination?
23:11:02*bluebrother^ points to the manual
23:11:33bluebrother^[Saint]: in theory, yes. But only when using offline mode, as some files are always retrieved from the net
23:11:35*[Saint] seems to recall having done that before now.
23:11:42bluebrother^like information about the current build versions
23:12:04[Saint]Right, yeah. I forgot to mention selecting offline mode.
23:12:08bluebrother^also, you need to make Rockbox Utility a portable installation. Which is as simple as putting it's configuration ini file in the same folder the exe is located in
23:12:18bluebrother^but I'm not sure if offline mode still works
23:12:32bluebrother^I haven't heard of anyone using it in the last like 3 years
23:12:33*[Saint] nods
23:12:50bluebrother^I wouldn't mind someone testing it and providing patches :)
23:12:57[Saint]I used it....yesterday. But not as a portable install.
23:13:04bluebrother^right now I'm wondering why the cscript process dies ...
23:13:41[Saint]What exactly do you want tested with offline mode bluebrother^?
23:14:18bluebrother^well, basically if it works at all :)
23:14:31bluebrother^as said, I'm not aware of anyone using it in the past since years.
23:14:49bluebrother^and you need to do the same installation you want to use later first to get the files into the cache
23:15:07bluebrother^having some "cache the files only" mode could be useful here.
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23:23:09bluebrother^great. Now how to figure why cscript crashed?
23:25:21CIA-81Commit by jethead71 (e4a5762): tdspeed: Tweak source and autocorrelation
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23:28:58bluebrother^hmm. Does expect to be run inside of Cygwin on Windows?
23:29:08bluebrother^Or should it work with plain Perl on Windows?
23:29:33 Join saratoga [0] (980329c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
23:29:40*bluebrother^ really doesn't want to have to install Cygwin as well
23:29:50saratogaanyone know if the gameboy emulator wiki page is remotely up to date:
23:30:07 Quit Sundiver_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
23:34:38*bluebrother^ installs cygwin
23:37:21dfktis the fm screen broken in the clipv1/clip+ simulators? i can't get anything to display, except the failsafe theme (included cabbiev2 doesn't work either)
23:37:39dfktusing rasher's current builds
23:38:03bluebrother^sounds broken. Though maybe it's a windows related issue?
23:38:16dfktwell, clip zip fm works fine, for example
23:38:20[Saint]rasher's "not-so-current" current builds you mean? ;)
23:38:42dfktheh, true
23:39:28saratogacould be broken on monochrome devices
23:39:58dfktchecking the revision log, there's been some work on fm stuff lately
23:41:04saratogathe git tree doesn't wrap text as nicely as it should in the web interface:;a=commit;h=68199cc19557ddb4a4c6357510a196ee6a487846
23:42:28[Saint]saratoga: Yuck!
23:42:39[Saint]That looks *terrible*.
23:43:36[Saint]I was trying to make sense of it, until I noticed the bottom scrollbar and realized the text went far, far offscreen.
23:43:49bluebrother^yet another reason for wrapping the commit messages!
23:45:35funmansaratoga: yeah there is a customary guideline for commit logs when using git
23:45:39saratogaif you don't mind breaking AAC-HE support, a lot of targets could use a 512KB codec buffer for a huge savings in RAM
23:45:51saratogasomething to think about for Coldfire where AAC-HE isn't realtime anyway
23:46:18saratogaperhaps PP as well
23:51:02*bluebrother^ slaps the cygwin installer
23:51:25saratogacould always increase the buffer a 100KB later on if someone goes through and EMACs the SBR code
23:51:28 Quit parafin (Quit: So long and thanks for all the fish)
23:53:20 Quit bertrik (Quit: And That, My Liege, Is How We Know the Earth to Be Banana Shaped)
23:54:40soap[Saint], on it (build currentness)
23:54:58CIA-81Commit by jethead71 (b17bdb9): tdspeed: Use "INT64_MAX" instead of "~(1ll << 63)" to get the maximum int64_t value.
23:56:19funmanCIA is back! \o/
23:56:49*bluebrother^ wonders how CIA gets the username
23:56:54funmanwe just need the buildsystem now
23:56:56bluebrother^local part of the mail address?
23:57:08saratogais there someway to get the option to see the full diff back?
23:57:22saratogaI hate the short diff since its really hard to understand changes from just the short ones
23:57:23funmanprobably a table indexed by real name or email?
23:57:36bluebrother^anyone recently tried to build rbspeex on cygwin?
23:57:38gevaertsbluebrother^: it gets poked with that particular line by the rockbox server
23:57:41funmansaratoga: "git show" ?
23:57:55saratogafunman: i could probably do that, i'm rarely on a machine with git
23:58:03funman;a=commitdiff;h=b17bdb93493eec82fa60f5e0f008aa292aed6f10 ?
23:58:13bluebrother^gevaerts: but how does the Rockbox server figure the display name?
23:58:29saratogafunman: I mean the old software's "full" view
23:58:39bluebrother^and since we display realnames on the website it might make sense to display realnames in the channel as well
23:58:43gevaertsbluebrother^: ask Zagor :) I assume it uses a mapping table, or possibly the gerrit database
23:58:44funmansaratoga: don't remember what it is
23:58:55saratogawhere it shows the entire document with the changes highlited

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