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#rockbox log for 2012-02-02

00:05:14 Join curtism [0] (
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00:47:53JdGordon[Saint]: see my commits last night? \t and \n in conditionals should work nicely now
00:48:11 Quit ender` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:48:53[Saint]Ah, I hadn't checked yet. That should allow me to break down some *very* ugly lines.
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00:56:40JdGordon[Saint]: I checked before doing it and # at the end of the line already let you split any line, but i tihnk actual \n sup[port is nicer
00:56:54JdGordon\t should work at the start of any line now also
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00:57:35[Saint]I'd have to agree with that, I'm not sure the comment thing was deliberate was it, just a happy accident?
00:57:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:58:35JdGordonand there was quite a irc discussion also
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01:27:34[Saint]Hahaha....learn to read more, Hayden.
01:28:06[Saint]I almost stormed in here with "what the hell, you broke my commenting style, bastard!" :p
01:28:41[Saint]...carry on. Nothing to see here.
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02:31:39 Join Gentoochild [0] (
02:32:34Gentoochildhi. I installed the new 3.10 on my Clip+. I discovered that the system freezes when I try to change the interface language
02:34:13JdGordonchange to which language? or all of them?
02:35:11GentoochildI tried English andI think danish (default is German which I set in 3.9)
02:35:32GentoochildI can try another random one...
02:36:26Gentoochildjust selected French, the result is the same. It shows "Loading..." and that's it
02:36:45GentoochildFM Radio kept playing, but the clock doesn't update anymore
02:37:20JdGordontry it with all music stopped
02:37:22JdGordonincluding radio
02:37:53*[Saint] smells bufflib issues.
02:38:30Gentoochildthe same :-/
02:39:19GentoochildI installed it the manual way, using a file system synchronisation tool to copy over the files to /.rockbox
02:39:49JdGordondoes the language take affect after the reset?
02:39:52[Saint]There's a chance it screwed up.
02:39:55Gentoochildstill German
02:40:15JdGordonopen up /.rockbox/config.cfg on your computer and change it the lang you want and see if that works
02:40:18JdGordonand file a bug
02:40:32[Saint]Try just extract the zip, no fancy tools, let it overwrite what it wants, first.
02:41:25[Saint]I'm skeptical of such tools.
02:44:02Gentoochildit was the normal directory synchronisation of Krusader, a Commander-style file manager for KDE
02:44:24GentoochildI did an asymmetric sync, so the Clip's dir should be a perfect mirror of the zip
02:44:44Gentoochildexcept for some theming and font files which I excluded manually
02:44:59GentoochildI changed the file, waiting for the stock rom to update its DB...
02:45:46GentoochildI changed deutsch.lng to english.lng, and lo and behold, it now speaks English to me
02:46:31JdGordonyeah, definitly buflib issue
02:46:34JdGordonplease file a bug
02:47:04Gentoochildis stuff like menu layout also discussed in the bugtracker? or rather here? because 3.10 changed a bit −− it moved settings between Now Playing and Radio. Quite illogical, if you ask me
02:48:11JdGordon1) noone is allowed to use the word "logic" in regards to menu layout.. it is entirely subjective
02:48:17JdGordon2) no they didnt?
02:48:35Gentoochildwould it be imposing if I asked you to file the bug? I'm always a bit reluctant to create new user accounts on the Internet when I don't know whether I'll ever use it again.
02:49:18Gentoochildwell, my menu says, in that order: Files, Database, Resume Playback, Settings, Recording, FM Radio, Playlist catalogue, Plugins, System
02:49:30JdGordonwell, if oyu don't tihnk you'll be back to harass us about fixing it there isnt uch point filing the bug
02:50:46Gentoochildhm... please don't make me feel bad :)
02:50:49Gentoochildvery well then.
02:50:50 Join [Saint_] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
02:50:55GentoochildI'll do it :)
02:51:03*[Saint_] slaps JdGordon
02:51:29[Saint_]That's an um...."different" outlook on bugs.
02:53:47 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:53:59Gentoochild(the main reason for my being reluctant is the mess that is my system of login credentials; user names and passwords don't follow any system, so oftentimes I just can't remember them after a few months of absense ^^)
02:57:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:58:28GentoochildI don't suppose this belongs into the Language category, but rather OS
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03:04:40JdGordonGentoochild: settings probably, the important thing is can you check with the current build (not release) and specify the target
03:06:40Gentoochildspeaking of specifying... which Player Type would I have to select? The Clip+ itself is not listed.
03:06:43GentoochildI can try a current build...
03:07:03JdGordonok leave player type and just mention it in the comment
03:07:13JdGordonyeah, if its working in currnt build but not release that is a problem
03:08:36JdGordonthough, i tihnk the plan is still to do a relativly quick release cycle this time so not a major problem
03:08:42Gentoochildah.. just noticed, I have the clip v2, not the clip+. mixed the two up
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03:14:49GentoochildI suppose it's not possible to rename the /.rockbox folder from within the player and then just reboot, right? I have to reboot into the stock ROM to use USB mode
03:16:28JdGordonsure there is
03:16:45*Gentoochild is listening :)
03:17:53Gentoochildhm.. .running on an empty, stock 3.10, the problem doesn't occur :-(
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03:18:30JdGordoncan you pastebin your config.cfg (the one thats broken)
03:18:45JdGordonoh, empty .rockbox folder? or clean one?
03:18:51Gentoochildclean one
03:19:04GentoochildI renamed my old one and copied the zip afresh
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03:21:21Gentoochildis there a debug mode I can enable?
03:21:39JdGordonnup :/
03:22:26Gentoochildhm.... I could incrementally add stuff to the config and see after which one it happens.
03:22:31Gentoochildbut that'll take a while
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03:23:25JdGordonna, dont bother
03:24:18Gentoochildor rather, I'll use my old installation, but with an empty config file. I can replay the settings through the menu, so I don't need to go into USB mode all the time
03:27:06Gentoochildsetting the language worked, so it's not a binary problem :)
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03:38:21Gentoochildhm... it's gone now. So a freak accident noone needs to bother with? Or do you still want the bug report?
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03:41:36JdGordonGentoochild: if it cant be reproduced its more likely a crash loading the .lng file than anything
03:41:57JdGordonmd5sum the clean dir and the broken one..
03:42:05JdGordonassuming they have the same version of the same files
03:42:23GentoochildI'll do a comparison of the dirs...
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03:52:54Gentoochildhm... I copied the config from the problematic system to the clean system and still no problem.
03:53:21GentoochildThe comparison of the failing .rockbox and the new one shows the only differences in a few database files, nvram.bin and fonts/08-Rockfont.gc (which I actually use in the menu)
03:53:42Gentoochildperhaps the font file got borked
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03:55:43*[Saint_] is reserving tonight for "fix up the frickin' popups in my RaaA cabbie (and also hopefully massage the same/similar solution into git RaaA cabbie)
03:58:45JdGordonGentoochild: no, the .gc file is a cache list... not the actual font..
03:58:52JdGordonwierd, but if its not still happning dont worry
03:59:12Gentoochildyeah, I notieced, it contains a message just in the set language
03:59:41Gentoochildwhat is the purpose of the nvram.bin? I noticed that it was not in the zip
04:00:36[Saint_]JdGordon: There's a "problem" with the way I've been (ab)using %Tl(ident,timeout) to trigger skin vars.
04:01:32[Saint_]it needs the "timeout" value to go false, so it can be next read true, which is totallylogical...but fucks trying to launch a popup too early up.
04:02:53JdGordongo on....?
04:03:49Gentoochildgot it!
04:03:57GentoochildI deleted the nvram.bin and now setting the language works
04:04:20JdGordondid you back it up first?
04:04:28Gentoochildyeah, I still have it on my puter
04:04:52Gentoochildas long as the power stays on... it's only in the ramdisk :o)
04:05:16Gentoochildso... can you make use of the file? I'll attach it to the bug report then.
04:05:26JdGordonnvram.bin stores some settings which don't go in config.cfg like the last screen and some other stuff
04:05:44JdGordonPlease attach it to the bug report and i'll try to investigate tonight
04:05:46Gentoochildand the time :)
04:05:49Gentoochildwill do
04:05:58JdGordonnot the time
04:06:06JdGordonnvram.bin is very rockbox specific
04:06:37JdGordonits not actual nvram. its just named that way because the really old players have some which we used and it limits the amount of dupe coding we'd need to do
04:08:20JdGordon[Saint_]: pastebin a snippet and explanation?
04:08:27JdGordonI'm not sure im undertsanding your greif :)
04:08:48 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
04:11:54[Saint_]I can do it here just briefly. Its actually perfectly expected behaviour really. "%?Tl(foo,timeout)<true|false>" is essentially what I'm using to set skin vars read in another conditional, but my use case really needs it to only use "timeout" for the true check, waiting for "timeout" to know if it has gone false stops you from being able to launch another popup early because the w
04:12:15[Saint_]rong (not technically, actually) skin var is set.
04:13:23JdGordonexplain what you're actually trying to do... not the skin code you're using
04:13:31JdGordonstop two overlapping popups both popping up?
04:13:53[Saint_]three, really.
04:15:05JdGordonok, so what you need is one skin var with 4 values, one for each popup and one for none
04:15:26[Saint_]so I'm basically doing "has this area been pressed since "timeout"" to check when set what skin var.
04:15:31JdGordonthen when a button is pressed you need to check if that value is the 'none' case or not
04:16:23Gentoochildit's not over yet ;-)
04:16:26[Saint_]huh....thats an interesting way to do the check. but, how can I then do "but display for x period"?
04:16:54[Saint_]as that's why I was (ab)using (and get cabbie too) %Tl's timeout value.
04:17:22JdGordonuse the "how long since the var has changed?" to disblae it
04:17:31JdGordonnot the "how long since a touch" tag
04:17:59Gentoochildwith no nvram.bin, setting the language works. After switching the Clip off and on again the problem comes back.
04:18:08[Saint_]You. My friend, are *awesome*.
04:19:00JdGordonand yes, I am :)
04:19:16JdGordonGentoochild: what time zone you in?
04:19:23[Saint_]I have no idea how to write that quite yet...but, the checks sound perfectly sound, and the logic is *so* much better than what's in place.
04:19:51[Saint_]I can't fault what's in git cabbie really as its a minor adaptation of my hacked solution. :P
04:20:17JdGordonGentoochild: waay past your bed time no? :) I really want to investigate but im at work now and cant, but if you're around in your morning it would be helpful
04:20:40JdGordonor email me your nvram.bin (rockbox at jdgordon dot info) and i'll have a looky
04:20:46GentoochildI dunno... I'm a bad awaker :)
04:21:34GentoochildSo no bug report for now? I'm just updating the wording about my new finding.
04:21:37JdGordonim usually quite bored and not sleepy when the euro folk wake up
04:21:42JdGordonyes, do the report also
04:21:46JdGordonthat would be better
04:24:00JdGordon[Saint_]: remember... only allow skinvars to enable/disable viewports, and only ever allow touch regions to set a skin var (try not to unset in touches)...
04:24:08JdGordonthen your code will be more flexible later
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04:25:30Gentoochildreport submitted
04:26:44JdGordonok, I'll try to remember to investigate
04:27:01Gentoochildwhile it's normal for me to do allnighters, I'm trying to cut down on it. I would be in bed now if it wasn't for that bug ;-)
04:29:02GentoochildI'm in the last two minutes of the Lord of the Rings soundtrack, I'll just let it play out and then go
04:29:16[Saint_]that's a bit of a problem, then. there's 4 viewports that could be displayed, only three really as it depends on the AA case so only cases at a time are ever considered. Anyway, two of them need a "cooloff" period, namely display for at least "foo" seconds, and one of them needs to be able to be held open for the case where you're setting volume manually and don't want it to timeout on you.
04:30:07[Saint_]there's also a case that will show the volume changing popup only for the duration of the volume changing if you're using hardware keys only to change it.
04:30:39JdGordonalso remember to have all that in the default viewport
04:30:44[Saint_](by way of knowing a touch area wasn't used to set the volume you can assume hardware is doing it :P)
04:30:45JdGordonor else they wont get unset
04:32:32[Saint_]the checks at the moment are sound, its just the totally logical part of %?Tl not knowing if its false case is false for at least 1 second (the default timeout) or the value of a specified timeout.
04:32:48[Saint_]and...expecting it not to do that :P
04:33:03[Saint_]That's what bit me in the bum, as it were.
04:35:19JdGordoni don't understand... are you complaining that "was last touch 1s ago" goes false at 1.1s?
04:35:30JdGordoni.e immediatly after the timeout value?
04:36:06JdGordonyou could always do "%?Tl(foo, 1)<true|%?Tl(foo, 2)<|false>>" if that is the case
04:36:10[Saint_]No, I'm complaining that my use case really needs it to ignore the timeout in the false case, but not the true.
04:36:55[Saint_]And...hmmm. that code snippet is interesting.
04:37:05JdGordondont do that!
04:37:16JdGordonuse the "how long since the var was set" tag to unset it
04:37:26[Saint_]it would still have a big hole in it for my use. that snippet.
04:38:14[Saint_]it could make for a type of "race condition" where you're trying to do checks whilst waiting for someting to go false, then setting off thecheck again...
04:38:45JdGordonright, which is why that is bad
04:38:51JdGordonI was just trying to understand your problem
04:39:54[Saint_]what does the "how long since the var was set" tag/statement look like. I only know of get (check), set, inc, and dec in relation to vars.
04:40:18[Saint_]I didn't realize there was a param for get that did that.
04:41:14[Saint_]Or am I in the whole wrong ballpark?
04:41:19JdGordongitweb isnt very nice compared to viewvcs for svn
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04:42:04JdGordon[Saint_]: %?vl(setting, timeout)<>
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04:42:40JdGordonskin var sorry
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04:45:18[Saint_]Hmmmm....I wonder if I can then eliminate some checks.
04:46:24[Saint_]if that works out, I should be able to not worry about checking for which touch area has been pressed at all, as it will be safe to guess based on the current value of the variable (and a check for the presence of album art).
04:48:58[Saint_]Oh, no no no.
04:50:34GentoochildOK, enough for today. Good night guys (n gals)
04:51:48[Saint_]the viewport display conditional is going to be an ugly, ugly monster.
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04:57:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:59:16[Saint_]that's even neglectiong a few even deeper checks, and the actual filler of a the conditions themselves :P
04:59:54[Saint_]I think this beast will give me a chance to test out your recent line breaking/comment commits JdGordon :)
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09:15:31wodzGerrit didn't solve our main problem it seems. There are not many devs interested in reviewing code. ARM unwinder first was hanging on FS for a long time attracting some interest but not many constructive rewievs/comments, then I moved it to Gerrit asking for reviews and tests. Since Jan 25 no tests, no reviews...
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09:22:04n1si don't think many people feel qualified to review that, i sure don't
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09:25:46JdGordonwodz: so whats the problem? just commit it
09:30:36wodzJdGordon: I could, but I am not strong enough in lowlevel ARM world I feel. Moreover the implementation has some design constraints and it would be great to test if our codebase doesn't break assumptions all the times :-)
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09:40:13kugelwodz: what do you want to be reviewed, really? the small shim you added or the backtrace library?
09:40:30kugelI also think "why is this not just committed yet"
09:41:45wodzkugel: Have you tested this on RaaA? No? Why?
09:43:41wodzThe main concern is if THIS implementation suits our needs (aka test in various places if this gives meaningful backtrace at all)
09:52:27pamauryI tested the backtrace on the fuze+ with success except that it breaks with gotos
09:53:55pamauryI don't understand what jhMikeS is proposing in his mail, did he even read my first mail ?
09:58:03pamaurywodz: does your arm patch enable the backtrace by default ? How much ram does it take ?
10:02:32wodzpamaury: Yes, it does. As of ram usage - I don't know to be honest. There are two defines which control how deep we search for valid stackframe and how big is hash lookup table. See,sidebyside,69,1,firmware/target/arm/unwarminder/unwarm.h for comments
10:03:34wodzBTW. now I see that hash size of 63 is not prime and comment says it should
10:03:38jhMikeSpamaury: I did. Sometimes it does reset it and so I fail to see the assumption in the driver except in one particular place.
10:04:45pamaurytuner_power(false) will reset the registers, thus stop the internal oscillator. Since the call does not come from the driver, it means our code can basically stop the internal oscillator at any time without the driver noticing. And when it will try to tune, it will break
10:05:24pamaurythe driver sets the internal oscillator once for all
10:05:40jhMikeSso? just move the register write
10:05:47pamaurywhere ?
10:06:41pamauryit needs to be before the ENABLE bit is set and it takes half a second to be stable, it not just a random register write
10:09:55jhMikeSputting it in si4700_sleep won't do it?
10:11:00pamaurythat would only work for sure if the driver was always put in sleep mode before powering off which I suspect is not the case
10:11:42jhMikeSit seems to working for setting up the RDS just fine, masking and unmasking the interrupt and such
10:13:32pamauryAnd it can break at any time without noticing because of bad radio code. I already saw the driver getting tune while powered off in some occasion, so I don't trust the radio code
10:15:02jhMikeSthat's a bug since it should be woken up first. there's also two possible sleep codes, one for pause (1) and one to really power off (2)
10:16:04pamaurythat's quite a hack too
10:17:04jhMikeStrue, but it would hang if actually fully sleeping the tuner during pause and then tuning during pause
10:18:57jhMikeSit's suppose to be radio_start(), do stuff with radio, radio_off, stop messing with it
10:21:09JdGordondoes anyone have the ipod accessory datasheet?
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10:26:06pamaurythere was a link the ipod accessory datasheet months ago, it was a complete (and leaked) one. I thought I had a copy but I can't find it
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10:56:00wodzhmm boomshine plugin doesn't have manual entry
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11:20:59CIA-10Commit 3511435 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: fuze+: don't use the DCP to copy the framebuffer since it can yield and then several lcd udpates could run concurrently with undefined behaviour
11:23:30CIA-103511435 build result: All green
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11:38:43JdGordonI'm working on a tag to be able to do logical "and" on a bunch of tags to simplify conditionals... any idea what the tag shold be?
11:38:48JdGordon%and is too long
11:39:12JdGordontemped to do %&&
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11:41:02wodzJdGordon: looks messy
11:42:08JdGordonI don't really want to go to 3 char tags though, but the other best i have is %nd
11:42:17wodzdoes it have to be 3 chars? Can't it be simpy && or % is needed
11:42:43JdGordonyeah % is needed
11:44:25wodzdo you plan other logical tags?
11:44:59wodz%a - and %o - or %x - xor %n - not for example to distinguish from others
11:45:41JdGordoni'm adding and and or
11:45:43JdGordonmaybe not
11:46:24JdGordonnot is redundant because %?mh<|something> is just as bad as %?not(%mh)<something>
11:49:25wodzhmm, does button repeat trigger cpu boost or something?
11:49:42JdGordonall buttons trigger boost now
11:50:04wodzthis screws plugins like hell
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11:55:43wodzcan this behavior be suppressed somehow?
11:56:08wodzor is it hardcoded in action subsystem now?
11:58:40pamauryis it a known bug that exit the radio screen doesn't actually stop the radio ?!
11:59:14wodzpamaury: there are two separate actions - exit with stopping radio and go to main menu with radio still playing
11:59:18JdGordonwodz: its in the action system
11:59:25JdGordonplugins shold probably just boost always
11:59:42gevaertshuh? Why?
11:59:57wodzJdGordon: when boosted I can't see the ball in pong :-)
12:00:07gevaertsMany plugins don't need lots of CPU
12:00:14gevaertswodz: that sounds like an actual bug :)
12:00:19gevaertsBusy waiting or something?
12:00:59wodzgevaerts: I can't see the ball because the game runs so fast that is
12:01:16gevaertswodz: yes, I claim that that's seriously buggy
12:01:39wodzgevaerts: I can barely see the ball when unboosted anyway
12:02:07gevaertsIt should use ticks to adjust speed
12:02:14wodzand triggering button repeat speeds up the game
12:03:08pamauryjhMikeS: for your information, setting the internal oscillator in si4700_sleep doesn't work either
12:03:17wodzgevaerts: feel free to fix - I just compare plugins behavior to what I described in manual
12:04:13pamaurya game not using ticks is seriously buggy
12:05:22JdGordonticks is wrong too
12:05:29JdGordonticks change based on boost
12:06:10pamaurywhat ?
12:06:22gevaertsThey run at HZ all the time
12:06:46pamaurythat would be serious bug if tick was cpu dependent
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12:08:50wodzstill boosting may provide a glitch in timing functions (it does for sure on coldfires)
12:11:22JdGordonbut... but... err
12:11:48JdGordonif that were the case, then brickmania shouldnt speed up when boosted (which it does)
12:14:31wodzIMO plugins should be separete package (just like fonts and themes) anyway. Plugins are mostly unmaintained and rarely used.
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12:14:51wodznot to mention keymap nightmare
12:16:09gevaertswodz: that's not at all easy to manage
12:16:46Tornefonts and themes don't have ABI compatibility requirements
12:18:03pamauryand where would you put them ? You still need a source repo
12:18:16wodzIts only a matter of different packaging. Make zip could build and
12:18:31wodzI am not proposing to move it from repo
12:18:48pamaurythe browser relies on some plugin(s) iirc
12:19:22wodzbut there is something like 10? to maintain actively then
12:19:35Tornei don't think we would gain anything by doing that at all
12:19:56wodzwriting plugins keymaps and then writing manual for new target is not fun
12:20:10Torneso don't
12:20:21Tornesplitting the binaries up doesn't make that any easier
12:20:24wodzthen I can't advertise the target as stable
12:20:30wodzwhich it is in fact
12:20:32Tornethe atlernative you are lookoing for is "let's decide that plugins working doesn't matter"
12:20:44Tornewhether the binaries are in the same zip or not is irrelevant
12:21:13wodzTorne: nope - make barfs when there are no keymaps defines for plugins
12:21:25pamauryplugins are not well tested anyway
12:21:27Tornenot if you don't build those plugins for that target
12:21:53wodzTorne: we don't have something like make main which builds everything except plugins
12:21:56Torneagain: splitting up the binaries won't help
12:22:20Tornei mean: make it so that the plugins which don't work on target X are *just never built for target X*
12:22:25Torneifdef them, or whatever
12:22:35TorneThere, problem solved
12:22:39Torneno need to change anything else
12:22:44wodzTorne: you can disable plugin building in configure but you can disable all
12:22:47Tornewe just need to agree that that's acceptable
12:23:06wodzTorne: do we have single central place to disable plugins?
12:23:20TorneWell, two.
12:23:36Tornealready ifdef'ed to all hell for screen types and so on
12:23:41TorneMaybe we can come up with a neater mechanism
12:24:09Tornebut yes, i am perfectly happy with a world where someone developing a new port just disables all the plugins they don't care about getting to run
12:24:15Torneand then we promote it to stable anyway
12:24:32Torneand if someone else wnats those plugins to work they are welcome to offer a patch that adds keymaps/etc and also re-enables building that plugin
12:24:33wodzTorne: Thats what I remembered - its a hell to exclude plugin not disturbing other targets
12:24:41TorneIt's not
12:24:45TorneIt's just *verbose*
12:24:50TorneWrap individual lines in #ifdef
12:24:58TorneTrivial, doesn't disturb other targets
12:25:05TorneIt will make the file really fucking long, is all :)
12:25:19wodzTorne: hell lots of typing
12:25:20Tornebut yes, i can imagine an alternative method that's much simpler
12:25:50wodzmaybe targets config should list plugins they support
12:25:50Torneone text file per plugin, with list of features required and list of targets where it's disabled
12:26:02TorneThat way around sucks because most targets do support most plugins
12:26:09Torneand the cases where they don't is already usually covered by features
12:26:17Torneanyway, there's lots of possible ways to do it
12:26:21Tornethe mechanism is not important
12:26:32Tornewhat you actually want is to see what people think about the idea that we do it that way at all
12:26:41Tornei.e. that we stop caring if all plugins work before a port is done
12:27:01wodzyeah, I'll post to ML about it
12:27:39wodzbut I fear there will be oposition as this would mean plugins will get less testing which is tiny anyway
12:28:02Tornei personally don't think that objection is justified
12:28:18Tornei'm not suggesting we should disable any plugins that currently build
12:28:26Tornejust allow people doing new ports to not care so much
12:28:31*gevaerts agrees
12:28:44TorneOnce someone gets plugin X to work on target Y, then that's pretty much done
12:28:50Tornewe shouldn't really ever have to go *back* to not supporting it
12:29:03Torneso yeah. if people care about plugin X on target Y, they can contribute a patch.
12:29:25Torneand once it's enabled, it will get built/etc the same as on every other target, and we won't let it regress
12:29:30Tornei.e. we won't just disable it again if there's a build error
12:29:45wodzsounds sensible
12:30:17Torneyah. the only thing we need to fix here is not holding up the perceived status of a port just because nobody has done a keymap for every silly demo and game
12:31:25wodzhmm, Is it only me or controls on sliding puzzle are reversed?
12:31:59JdGordoncan we use cia-bot to notify us of new patches on gerrit?
12:34:28Tornewodz: i suspect that's a matter of opinion
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12:34:46Tornewodz: i.e. are you moving the hole, or "a tile adjacent to the hole" :)
12:35:29wodzyes, I realized that but since you controll the whole its a bit ackward
12:36:21TorneControlling the hole is more logical, if you think about it :p
12:36:28Tornebut hey
12:38:33n1sJdGordon: that would be neat
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12:40:04wodzTorne: any chance you'll dive into unwinder?
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12:41:23n1sabout the plugins, i think we have too many crappy plugins that i think we could just delete
12:43:29Tornen1s: Probably, but i suspect if we deleted allt he ones that are ever an inconvenience for new ports people would be annoyed
12:43:40Torneso i think we still need to discuss the aforementioned as well
12:44:51n1syeah, i agree but part of the problem is the sheer volume nad that could be decreased by raising the quality bar
12:46:11TorneYeah, I nkow
12:46:47Tornethe problem i see, though, is that because it's so difficult and impractical to build plugins independantly, anything we decide to kill is basically dead for everyone forever :)
12:46:50wodzsnake manual is bogus - It lists which key is used to change game level (but this is in game menu) but doesn't list actual controls in game
12:47:11Torneso if you pick anything that *anyone* cares about, they will bitch
12:47:29n1slet them bitch :)
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12:55:07gevaertswodz: plugin documentation in general isn't very good. Have a look at the shopper thing :)
12:57:12gevaertsTorne: did we end up changing the partition type handling?
12:57:17wodzconsidering amount of work I try to match controls description only
12:57:19TorneSomeone reverted it
12:57:29gevaertsAh, right
12:57:30Tornebecause it broke superfloppy SD cards
12:57:42Tornebecause our FAT mount code is *far too willing* to mount something that's obviously not a FAT filesystem
12:57:47gevaertsSo 3.10 probably has the strict handling
12:57:52TorneYes, probably
12:58:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:59:30gevaertsI'm asking because someone on the forums has a non-working sd card that used to have ext3 on it
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13:06:08Tornethey probably need to change the partition type, then, yes :)
13:06:28Tornewe really should fix that again sometime
13:06:44Torneonly this time, also fix the code so that it actually checks if the thing it's interpreting as an MBR is actually plausible
13:07:08*gevaerts nods
13:07:09Torneand ideally also fix the FAT mount code so it will reject a "partition" which is actually just whatever data happened to be in the partition table entry of something that wasn't an MBR
13:07:25Tornebecause the fact that it was willing to do that was very surprising :p
13:08:14pamauryperhaps you can check whether the mbr partition size matches the fat size, that would be a sensible check ?
13:08:33pamauryand far too hard to get it right by chance
13:09:49pamauryjhMikeS: so what do you suggest for the radio problem ?
13:17:10Tornepamaury: that one is actually false with surprising frequency
13:17:21Torneyou can check that the FAT size is no *larger* than the partition, that's a good start :p
13:19:14pamauryit's incredible that FAT doesn't have some sort of magic string
13:19:43pamauryhow does linux check if a partition is a fat ?
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13:28:32Misanthropospamaury, parition type?
13:29:54wodzhmm, somehow greylib can messup slidestrip state
13:29:55gevaertsLinux explicitely doesn't care about partition type
13:33:53pamauryMisanthropos: partition type is not reliable
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13:45:06pamaurywhy is there a special case for tuner_set(RADIO_SLEEP, 2) ? It is unused by the si4700
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13:51:02Misanthroposman 5 magic maybe
13:52:10Misanthroposbut thats for files...
13:57:56Misanthroposwhich should work after reading man file :D
14:00:01gevaertsMisanthropos: the question isn't really "How can I figure out which file system it is under linux", but "How does linux determine the file system to use when mounting"
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14:04:47Misanthroposok - but the neccessary "magic bytes" info should be found in the "magic" file and thats how you could determine the partition type
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14:14:36dionoeagevaerts: in busybox's mount they just loop through all the block based filesystem types until one works (that kind of seems inefficient :S)
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14:15:09pamaurydionoea: that's still not the point, the point is: how do you tell if it's a fat or not
14:15:29dionoeaah sorry, I didn't read the full discussion :)
14:15:42pamauryyou could rely on the root directory to have a system label entry but I'm sure some fat don't have it
14:16:34dionoeadon't they have a special file system type in the partition table for fat types?
14:17:02dionoeaor are there cases where other types can be used and still be considered valid?
14:17:12aarchHey. I'm trying to make a simple plugin, but I'm having problems with printing text. Everything but rb->splash seems to be working just fine. The code snippet is here: . I also tried using rb->lcd_putsxy, but still got nothing but black screen :(
14:18:11pamauryaarch: you need to call rb->lcd_update after lcd_putsxy
14:18:14aarchtried it with both ui simulator and from the machine itself (sansa clip+), with no success
14:18:52aarchpamaury: okay thanks. i'll give it a try
14:25:06TorneMisanthropos: that's absolutely not how it works
14:25:27TorneMisanthropos: you try mounting with different filesystems until one of them accepts it
14:25:42Misanthroposthats how linux does it.. but maybe you don't want that
14:25:44Tornedionoea: The partition types are irrelevant garbage. No modern OS cares about them at all.
14:25:49TorneMisanthropos: That's the only way to do it that's sane.
14:26:07Tornedionoea: linux, windows, etc will all mount any partition they can recognise the FS of, regardless of type
14:26:14Tornethe change i made a while ago made Rockbox do the same
14:26:23Tornebut our mount code is too tolerant of garbage and it breaks some disks' detection
14:26:28Torneso it got reverted.
14:26:49TorneMisanthropos: We only have one filesystem, which makes this easier ;)
14:26:59dionoeaah ok :)
14:27:25Tornedionoea: the reason this matters is because the formatting tools in host OSes don't change the partition type
14:27:38dionoeain the 3.2 linux source code fat partition validation is done in the fat_fill_super() function in fs/fat/inode.c
14:27:44dionoeathat might help
14:27:46Torneso if you reformat a partitoin of type 82, or whatever the exFAT type is, as FAT32, then it will work perfectly fine on the host OS< but rockbox will choke
14:27:55Tornedionoea: yah, i've read it
14:28:03Tornethe logic is all very obvious
14:28:17Tornei don't think this is tricky to do correctly, we just haven't really tried
14:28:27Tornei got distracted and forgot about it
14:28:31Torneand nobody else has done it either :p
14:28:47dionoeaah ok :)
14:29:01Tornewe have some conditions that cause us to barf, but not that many
14:29:44pamaurylinux doesn't seem to do too many checks either but that seems sufficient
14:30:05TorneLinux is also checking the MBR itself before concluding that there are even partitions
14:30:09TorneWhich we check even less
14:30:23JdGordonhas the tracking id thing been setup for flyspray?
14:30:24TorneThat may be sufficient to fix the cases we were failing in, even, i dunno.
14:30:27pamauryhow do check the mbr is valid ? non-overlapping partitions ?
14:30:38pamaury*do you
14:30:39Tornepamaury: also within the range of the disk, and a few other basic things, yes
14:31:11Tornepamaury: i don't think we require *anything* for the MBR to be valid, other than the boot sector signature which is identical to the FAT BPB's signature :p
14:31:18Torne(as it must be, to make BIOS booting work)
14:31:57TorneJdGordon: there's two different things that accomplish the linking-to-bugs thing; i set up the simpler one (that just turns strings of a certain form into links)
14:32:00Tornei think.
14:32:09Tornethe more complex one that lets you actually search/etc i haven't done
14:32:22Tornesince it looked fiddly :)
14:32:30Tornei forget exactly what is in the config; ask Zagor.
14:32:38Torneand/or experiment yourself by uploading stuff in the sandbox repo
14:33:31Zagorwe have a [commentlink "flyspray"] set up that matches "[Ff][Ss]#?(\\d+)" and inserts a link
14:33:37TorneRight, yeah
14:33:39TorneThat was the easy one
14:33:49TorneThe tracking id thing lets you search gerrit to see which changes mention FS #12345
14:33:51fs-bluebot r30826:Line padding to lists on touchscreens can't work well. (bugs, closed)
14:33:53Tornewhich is potentially useful
14:33:57Tornebut, it reuqired more setup
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14:34:23Torneif we want to do that, then it's in the docs, tho :)
14:34:45Tornei meant to revisit it but just forgot, and now the config is on zagor's box instead of mine so i can't just fiddle :p
14:35:43ZagorI welcome suggestions for config entries. I have very little time to read up on it myself at the moment.
14:36:05Tornei think it requires more than a config entry, you have to prod it to regenerate the index of tracking ids for existing changes
14:36:08Tornebut hey
14:36:12TorneJdGordon: feel free to read up on that one :p
14:36:20Tornegerrit is very easy to just graba nd run on your own box if you want to play
14:36:29Torneall the deps other than "a jvm" are just inside its .war
14:38:03JdGordonwell, the docs suggest file:^*.c shold work but it barfs on it :/
14:39:28Tornethat doesn't look right
14:39:35Torne^ is regex, your * there is a glob
14:40:09Torneyou mean ^.*\.c$
14:40:10Tornei think
14:42:22Torneah, quoting
14:42:30Tornefile:"^.*\.c$" is accepted
14:42:35Tornedunno if it matches the right things
14:43:36Torneit doesn't like the unquoted $
14:44:01Tornefile:^.*\.c works without quotes but probably matches foo.cabcde as well
14:48:29wodzTorne: one note to UsingGit - if you do git pull −−rebase as it describes but you are not in local master branch the command fails
14:48:45Torneit will work if your branch is set up properly
14:49:07TorneYou probably want to create tracking branches: do git checkout -b foo -t origin/master
14:49:26Tornethen pull will work fine in them, and status/branch -v will tell you the difference between that branch and origin/master
14:49:40TorneUsingGit is not really meant to be a complete guide to everything in git, at least not currently
14:49:56Tornethe flow described doesn't involve creating any other local branches (since you don't *have* to)
14:50:24Torne(also, git branch −−set-upstream foo origin/master to set it after creation)
14:50:59Torneif you can think of a good way to explain stuff, go ahead and change it, but there are enough steps in the basic instructions already without adding explicit creation of topic branches and stuff :/
14:51:16wodzTorne: right, but common practice is to git branch foo && git checkout foo && work some && work some more -> want to push
14:51:29TorneNo, common practise is to do that but with a tracking branch :)
14:51:46Torne"git branch foo && git checkout foo" is git checkout -b foo
14:52:34Torneseriously, tracking branches are almost always what you want, beacuse whatever you're using a local branch for you probably at least want a way to see how it differs from upstream easily
14:52:52Torneit works as a very nice default for a lot of commands
14:54:29TorneGit does it for you automatically by default if your starting point is a remote, even
14:54:50Tornebut if you don't explicitly specify the starting point then it's HEAD, which is never a remote, so it won't
14:57:25CIA-10Commit 5863361 in rockbox by Marcin Bukat: MPIOs: keymap tweaks
14:57:26CIA-10Commit 4bbc9f6 in rockbox by Marcin Bukat: MPIOs: manual work
14:57:26CIA-10Commit ae7d40f in rockbox by Marcin Bukat: HD300: manual graphics
14:57:27DBUGEnqueued KICK CIA-10
14:57:27CIA-10Commit 230caaa in rockbox by Marcin Bukat: HD300: fix messages in blackjack
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14:58:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:02:37CIA-10230caaa build result: 10 errors, 2 warnings (Marcin Bukat committed)
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16:08:56CIA-10Commit e362e34 in rockbox by Marcin Bukat: HD200: fix typo in goban keymap
16:11:19CIA-10e362e34 build result: All green
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16:12:48pamauryjhMikeS: my proposal for the radio:
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17:49:52kugelbluebrother^: did adding you as reviewer work?
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18:36:15GorinHi, I'm completely new ad this and not sure how it works, but here goes nothing. I have a Sansa e280v2 running rockbox ( r. 29066-110116). As of a few days ago it boots , informs me it is scanning the disks and then gives me a white screen with some vertical lines along the left hand side of the screen that look like interference. Does anyone konw how to fix this ..can't really reset, because the moment I press the bower button it immediately reboots end
18:36:54funmandoes OF boot correctly ?
18:37:20GorinOF being original firmware?
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18:40:03Gorinsrry, yeah.. well OF used to run fine and I switched to rockbox over a year ago without any problems and nice added functionality. I haven't looked at OF since. How can I check if OF will boot correctly?
18:42:17funmanpress left while booting
18:42:56Gorinjust a sec
18:43:18Gorinjep OF works no problem..showing up on my laptop as connected
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18:44:11Gorinacutally when I disconnect it asks to free up space
18:49:47Gorinjust getting rid of some of the recordings, though haven't recorded anything in ages so why that should be a problem now I don't know. In any case OF seems to be booting fine so I guess I can then re-install rockbox from OF right?
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18:50:05Gorinand just go for the lastest version while I'm at it
18:50:05funmanjust try booting rockbox again. still white screen ?
18:50:16funmanyeah you could try that also
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18:51:48toffe82perhaps a tool that can be useful for usb debug :
18:53:39funmantoffe82: there are free tools also (virtualbox/qemu/wireshark)
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18:53:52funmanthere's a free usb analyzer for windows but i can't find its name atm
18:55:52GorinWell the wird thing was that it still asked to free up more space, even after I'd just done so - now moving ALL recordings off if it to see what that does and whether it'll boot correctly again after that
18:56:38GorinI don't think it's a problem with the usb connection though bc I also get the white screen when booting normally - not connected to my laptop
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19:00:46funmantoffe82: usbsnoop
19:01:07funmanGorin: just format it or ignore OF when you get rockbox working again
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19:05:38Gorinright so it seems space was an issue all of a sudden - don't know why bc all my music is on the microsd and I haven't recorded anything in a while - but in any case it boots fine boot rockbox and OF now that I deleted the stuff
19:05:45Gorinthx for the help :)
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22:45:19BaltowolfOk, so I'm going to RMA my Fuze, got the shipping label and all, now I need to remove Rockbox
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22:45:44BaltowolfSo to replace the modded firmware with the OF can I run the installer and uninstall it?
22:49:18funmanBaltowolf: the manual says how to do it i think
22:51:46bertrikBaltowolf, you get can the original firmware from here: If you install that, it uninstalls the rockbox bootloader. After that you can remove the .rockbox folder
22:52:36bertrikyou need to know if you have a "fuze v1" or a "fuze v2"
22:53:05BaltowolfOk, so I can run the firmware updater and it will remove the modded firmware? right?
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23:05:30BaltowolfThere's no risk of bricking it by using the firmware updater, righT? Just making sure.
23:09:24gevaertsThere's *always* a risk of bricking a player, even by just switching it on
23:10:14BaltowolfBut ther'es no added risk by reverting to OF with the updater, correct?
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23:14:54BaltowolfAnd after I run the firmware updater to revert to OF I just delete .Rockbox and there's no other files from Rockbox left, correct?
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23:16:25[Saint]None that you didn't make a conscious decision to place elsewhere, no.
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23:17:27CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:17:27*bertrik is not sure if the sansa firmware updater will recognise a rockboxed fuze over USB
23:17:35wodzDo I need to poke something to get HD300 manual listed on daily manual page (
23:22:10Baltowolfbertrik: Is that only in Rockbox? I'm in the OF right now.
23:22:16BaltowolfMy computer doesn't even see it in Rockbox.
23:23:53funmanwodz: did you see in www repo ?
23:24:03funmanthere's a foreach my $t (usablebuilds()) {
23:24:36funman[fun@castafiore /media/dev/www-rockbox]% l
23:24:36funmanlrwxrwxrwx 1 fun fun 24 janv. 17 14:21 -> ../trunk/tools/
23:24:46funmani'm not sure if it's correct
23:26:47wodzwhats usablebilds() that is the question :-)
23:30:27wodzAh no it should pick it up automatically when manual is present on the download server. So I should just wait until new version of manual get built.
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23:30:53funmanyeah probably, it's built daily afaik
23:30:58Baltowolfthanks for your help guys, gtg.
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23:47:00argonelwhat is the linux rockbox installer looking for in order to autodetect the mount point?
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