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#rockbox log for 2012-02-16

00:05:15 Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...)
00:13:17 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:25:18 Join evilnick [0] (~evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick)
00:25:35evilnick[Saint_]: Feedback on the RaaAa theme time?
00:26:17[Saint_]Always is, I guess.
00:26:44 Join trustt_ [0] (~daniel@
00:26:50evilnickI'm not sure if this is the theme or not, but when I long-select (touch) on the album art to view the playlist AFTER having tried Quickmenu, then I can no longer bring up the pop-up with Folder, Quick Menu, Context Menu
00:26:58[Saint_]I have a full day of poking at it from ~2pm onward planned. (1.5 hours or so away)
00:27:08evilnickIt might be a limitation of the build
00:27:38[Saint_]And yes, this *is* a theme issue...something I've been banging my head against a wall for weeks over.
00:27:54evilnickAh, right
00:28:05[Saint_]The conditional checks are blocking each other looking for the false condition to go true.
00:28:30evilnicki.e. a "reset" to the correct values/first view of the WPS screen?
00:28:50evilnickIgnore that!
00:29:25[Saint_]It can also be witnessed by exiting the .wps re-entering it then trying to open the context popup before ~4 seconds (the checks timeout) has passed.
00:29:29evilnickI meant to say that *it would be best* to "reset" to the first view of the WPS, but the conditionals stop this from happening?
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00:30:12[Saint_]The problem actually is that it *is* being reset on screen re-entry.
00:30:46[Saint_]So when you get back to the wps you need to wait 4 seconds until it knows the false conditions are true.
00:31:02[Saint_]Its....complicated ;)
00:31:22evilnickSo each and every time the WPS is viewed, the user must wait 4 seconds before attempting to bring the popup up? :)
00:32:09[Saint_]Yep. Because I can't set individual timeoits for true and glaze
00:32:17[Saint_]*and false
00:32:58evilnickOut of interest, which Android build are you using?
00:33:12[Saint_]I did it an ugly, ugly, ugly way...never thinking of this limitation as my usage never hit it. Probably because I subconsciously knew to avoid it.
00:33:17evilnickThe latest one from rasher crashes when changing codecs (for me)
00:33:46[Saint_]Weirdly, though, the volume popular uses the same logic and doesn't suffer the "wait on re-entry" bug.
00:33:49*JdGordon still doesnt get why the popups are so difficult
00:34:06evilnick94177e6-120128, to be precise
00:34:07[Saint_]You do it then! ;)
00:34:53[Saint_]evilnick: unfortunately I can't test that presently, as all my phone-media is the one codec.
00:35:16[Saint_]Ill add some test_files this eve and give it a try.
00:35:44[Saint_]I'm using some rasher build from a week or so ago.
00:35:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:36:00[Saint_]But, yeah...only mp3@320 here.
00:36:13 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
00:36:31*[Saint_] goes looking for some wifi
00:36:43evilnickHmm, the last build I see on his page is from 28th Jan
00:36:53[Saint_]Bah, screw it. I only need a few.
00:37:14evilnickTry mp3 to vorbis/aac as those are the three that I've tried
00:37:37[Saint_]Oh? Hmmm...I should say I *downloaded* it a week or so ago :)
00:37:49[Saint_]It may be a lot older.
00:38:41[Saint_], yeah, that's interesting. It just...silently fails.
00:38:57[Saint_]Mp3 → aac
00:39:08*evilnick is glad to see that it's not just him!
00:39:11[Saint_]Drops me back to the desktop.
00:39:31evilnickBut then the notification (at the top of the screen) comes back quickly
00:39:37[Saint_]Narry a panic.
00:39:42evilnickAnd Resume Playback works fine
00:39:59[Saint_]Not here, it dies outright on this device at least.
00:40:12evilnickMaybe it's the oft-requested "stop after current song" that kugel decided to implement without telling anyone :)
00:41:16[Saint_]I'm tempted to say its yet another bufflib snafoo
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01:17:20JdGordon[Saint_]: where is the latest cabbie code?
01:17:28JdGordonif you dont say gerrit im going to kick+ban you :D
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03:11:01JdGordon[Saint]: ping
03:13:11JdGordonwhere is your latest cabbie code?
03:13:30[Saint]There's a reason I didn't answer that ;)
03:13:30JdGordonI either want to port it to GN on the plane, or work on zagors lcd code
03:13:45JdGordonim sure i can help with the popup issue
03:13:57JdGordonif i can stop myself from vommiting at the site of it :D
03:14:53[Saint]I haven't dropped the "rename single char identifiers" version on the tracker as yet as I only got halfway through.
03:15:07[Saint]real life is an ass.
03:15:28JdGordonstop trying to get it perfect... put it on gerrit and we'll push it as is
03:15:36JdGordonyou can always submit fixes later
03:21:45JdGordon[Saint]: you havnt tried the menu customising patch have you?
03:22:16[Saint]Nup, I've looked at it briefly, though.
03:22:49[Saint]I'm a little bit pensive about it, in the "give an inch, take a mile" aspect.
03:23:16[Saint]Its one step away from "But why can't we have FULLY customizable menus?"
03:23:56JdGordonI personnaly have no issues with that question
03:24:03[Saint]I like the idea, but there's a few implementation issues I dislike.
03:24:11JdGordonI also dont see that as a useful requirement anymore
03:24:18JdGordonsuch as?
03:25:00[Saint]I really dislike the manual editing of a config file. I'd much prefer a nice editor that can also revert to default, but I understand that can come later.
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03:31:51[Saint]I'm also unsure about how skinned lists would deal with having menu items moved around on the fly?
03:32:01[Saint]I assume this isn't an issue.
03:33:01JdGordonthey dont move around on the fly
03:33:19JdGordondon't you worry about blank, let me worry about blank
03:35:21[Saint]I just wondered how it'd deal with the menu structure potentially being completely different to how it was when the skin was loaded, butthe more I think about this it shouldn't be a problem at, yeah ;)
03:35:39JdGordonthe skin is broken if it does
03:35:49JdGordonbut basically nothing uses skinned lists anyway so meh
03:36:58[Saint]But, skinned lists can <in theory> already completely shuffle the menus around, no? How does it cope if you attempt to display an item that's been "removed"?
03:37:41[Saint]My assumption is it breaks, as that's an awesome edge case ;)
03:38:36JdGordonno it cant
03:39:11JdGordonskins just draw.. they cant reorder lists
03:39:32evilnickWould iconsets be affected?
03:41:20[Saint]It'd be difficult to break displaying icons any more than they are already. :D
03:41:24[Saint]wrt: viewers.
03:41:35[Saint]I looked at that mess, once.
03:43:04JdGordonna, easy now
03:43:50[Saint]Oh? I might have to try cramming my custom viewers config back in my builds then.
03:44:16[Saint]It pretty much used to arbitrarily decide that some extensions got fat black squares instead of icons.
03:44:17JdGordonno, skin lists can show any icons they want
03:44:37[Saint]Ahhhhh, so, not "easy", but "possible" :)
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05:00:22*[Saint] guesses we're not playing "what comes next".
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07:48:38*[Saint] pokes JdGordon
07:50:16[Saint]If you want into my RaaA dropbox, I'll need an email addy. Alternatively I could just put up a .zip of my current workings...but, DropBox is actually kinda nice for collaboration.
07:53:48JdGordonuse gerrit!
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08:05:17 Nick trustt_ is now known as trustt (~daniel@
08:05:48trustti implemented Insert After... for the playlist context menu
08:06:03trusttit opens a playlist viewer and lets you select the track you want to insert after
08:06:43trusttits cool but i had to change quite a bit in playlist_viewer.c and move a few of the structs to the header
08:06:58trusttpretty ugly workaround really :/
08:07:29JdGordonis it on gerrit?
08:07:40trusttnot yet
08:07:51trusttim having 80 characters per line issues atm :P
08:09:01trustthow bad is it to commit without fixing that?
08:09:33trustti dont accept the commit to be accepted to the head atm anyway, i just want to hear criticism really
08:11:54JdGordonthats fine
08:12:02trusttyeah? ok
08:13:07JdGordonand add your name to docs/CREDITS in the first commit also
08:13:17JdGordonif oyu arent there already
08:15:13trusttfound it :)
08:16:14 Join GodEater_ [0] (93722cd0@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
08:18:14kugel[Saint]: why don't you just put up a git repo for your cabbie work
08:19:08[Saint]Because (until now) its just been me working on it.
08:19:31kugelchicken-egg problem?
08:19:50[Saint]No one's even so much as put up a patch against my work on the tracker, so I figured as long as it's just me there wasn't much point.
08:20:21[Saint]I'll set up a repo on github this evening given the time, however.
08:20:22kugelnobody patches patches
08:21:27kugelI, personally, don't consider dumping a zip to the tracker as an invitation for collaboration, so I missed that
08:22:09[Saint]I just found DropBox convenient to work with as it automagically syncs changes from all my machines, and there's not been any need for versioning.
08:22:17[Saint]THis is now changing, so, I'll adapt.
08:22:46[Saint]I just wanted to give JdGordon a way to poke at stuff until that point should he want to.
08:23:22JdGordonyou know what you oculd do?
08:23:32JdGordonpush your local git repo to dropbox
08:23:38JdGordonlocal commits will magically sync
08:24:10[Saint]Hum...nice idea.
08:25:34[Saint]kugel: Fwiw...I also didn't have much choice about said "zip dumping". It would be several patches, some above my head, to submit a committable patch for this.
08:26:07[Saint]the way theme's are built needs some poking at.
08:26:17*JdGordon punches trustt in the nose
08:26:21JdGordonplaylist_viewer_ex_ex.. REALLY?!
08:26:36kugelJdGordon: calm down
08:27:50kugel[Saint]: "dumping patches" is not really any more inviting for me. perhaps I need an explicit "please help me on that" or "lets collaborate"
08:28:46[Saint]I got the very strong sense that you weren't interested in, and at some points outright against, my work here.
08:28:58[Saint]Perhaps I read it wrong, but that's how I've read it.
08:29:09kugel"I just wanted to give JdGordon a way to poke at stuff until that point should he want to." <- I take that as other people's opinions don't count?
08:29:25JdGordonkugel: calm down
08:29:45kugelPerhaps I'm misinterpreting
08:29:47[Saint]I'm not interested in this conversation as of now if this is where its going.
08:30:27trusttJdGordon: i told you i dont expect it to be committed :P
08:30:48trusttJdGordon: _ex_ex is not much worse than just _ex though
08:31:16JdGordonits 100% worse!
08:31:40trusttwell ok thats easy to change though
08:31:41kugelyea, I misread. sorry about that
08:32:55[Saint]kugel: I kinda jumped down your throat there, and I apologize. Truth told I'm not really having a good day here, and I just needlessly took it out on you because I read tone into something that didn't exist.
08:33:00[Saint]Again, apologies.
08:33:06*[Saint] needs a break.
08:36:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:41:36kugel[Saint]: sorry if it came across as if I would be against your work. It's not like that. I don't agree with all aspects (yet) but I'm generally in favor of cabbiev2 improvements/remakes that aid touchscreen interfaces
08:43:18 Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
08:43:19[Saint]As I said (implied, perhaps is better), its most likely me reading tone into things that didn't exist...but I've got the impression several times that you're not entirely happy with my work as it directly conflicts with yours.
08:43:45[Saint]I think we're both a little fearful that each other wants to take things in a different direction.
08:45:13JdGordonZagor: meerging up your lcd tree is a massive PITA :/
08:45:41Zagoroh, you're doing that? had too good a day, had you? ;-)
08:45:57[Saint]There's one issue you brought up that indeed is perfectly valid, but I'm not sure how it can be mitigated other than poking at the AA display code.
08:46:00[Saint]kugel: ^
08:46:00JdGordonyes, im bored :p
08:46:21[Saint]The issue being non-square AA in the square AA frame.
08:47:23kugelmy suggestion would be to conservative and don't use an AA frame ;)
08:47:28[Saint]I really like the frame, and it'd be a shame to drop it out altogether...I'm also not in favour of forcing the use of square AA even if it is rare, so, I'd like to see if AA can be zoomed/cropped.
08:47:59[Saint]*even if non-square AA is rare
08:48:27kugelAA supported cropping before it went in
08:48:44kugelhowever I wouldn't want my AA to be cropped only to fit a frame
08:49:24[Saint]There's flags to support centering the AA vertically and horizontally, but it doesn't seem to crop if its non-square.
08:49:34kugelI could imagine re-shaping the frame though
08:50:01[Saint]kugel: I'd thought of that, but, there's no way to detect the AA dimensions.
08:50:20[Saint]So we can't make a condition to drop the frame if its non-square.
08:50:50kugelI meant in the skin/C code, not in the theme
08:50:51JdGordon.... yet
08:51:32kugelmaking a given image smaller is easy enough. cutting out stuff (as opposed to resizing) anyway
08:52:28[Saint]In theory, the frame could be done in 2 or four parts, and magic created to align it to the edges or corners of the AA.
08:52:42[Saint]But theme-specific magic like this would be a no-n0
08:54:24[Saint]Then it could always frame the art no matter what its dimensions were...but, yueah, that's a bit ugly. The other way to do it would involve the skin having a concept of layering, which, ...yeah, no.
08:55:00[Saint]Or conditional backdrops.
08:55:54[Saint](the direction I'm going with that is having a black background for the AA so that it appears as though its in a letterbox type widescreen view if non-square)
08:56:08[Saint]the problem is...the frame just looks so damn good! ;)
08:57:49kugelit's nice but IMO not nice enough to ignore the problems that come with it ;)
08:58:45[Saint]"If your AA isn't square, you're broken...fix yourself and then fix your AA"
09:03:10[Saint]kugel: Question - for what specific reason is it that you've put the viewport specific touch checks at the very bottom of the cabbie code?
09:03:28UnhelpfulYes, can we add support for 9-panel elements in wps so we can have pretty stretchable frames?
09:03:52kugelit didnt work otherwise. I dont remember the details though
09:04:12[Saint]kugel: Oh...I forgot there was a comment there. Derp.
09:04:24kugelIIRC it was only about blank lines being dispayed, not non-working touch areas
09:04:47[Saint]You can do those checks in the viewport that houses the touch area.
09:05:23[Saint]The blank line thing is an interesting bug, I tackled that by pushing the check out of the bounds of the viewport with blank lines.
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09:06:07[Saint]for some reason, a %?Tl<> check seems to actually render stuff to the screen.
09:06:35jdgordAn empty line?
09:07:11[Saint]Or a fat grey line the height of the currently loaded font if a bitmap is drawn in the same vp.
09:07:36[Saint]Which is why I pushed it out of bounds with blank lines.
09:07:46[Saint](ugly, I know)
09:08:06jdgordNo bug report? :(
09:08:33[Saint]You said one wasn't necessary ;)
09:09:19[Saint]But, yeah. In my cabbie code you can see the blank lines seperating the %?Tl<> checks from the rest of the body of code in the viewport. Without that, there's some pretty cool drawing issues.
09:10:13[Saint]When I mentioned it to you, you said you were pretty sure you knew why it was happening. But I forgot about it due to finding a workaround.
09:10:55[Saint]Fwiw, kugel discovered this bug/limitation too!
09:11:02[Saint]</passing the blame> :P
09:12:30kugelthe search feature of flyspray sucks
09:12:44kugelyou add a key word and it just gives *more* results not less
09:13:42jdgordI don't remember it
09:13:50kugelIIRC there was a bug report about this, and it was fixed. But it probably re-appeard
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09:15:59GodEater_how many devices of the GNex's resolution exist currently?
09:16:13[Saint]AFAIK, one.
09:16:23GodEater_so there's no special case required
09:16:39kugelmany tables do have 1280x800 too?
09:16:52[Saint]Errr *only one*, that being the GN
09:16:54GodEater_not 800
09:16:59kugelsorry, 720
09:17:18GodEater_if there are tablets of that resolution, then I concede we do have a problem
09:18:14kugelGodEater_: we can also expect phones with that resultion and real buttons (capactitive or tactile) and no button bar
09:18:39GodEater_I suppose
09:19:11[Saint]the Prime has 1280x720 I bel;ieve
09:19:21GodEater_prime what?
09:19:28kugelwe just need the dynamic lcd size patch. because android gives a smaller window we can adapt dynamically to the button bar
09:19:35[Saint]some googling seems to suggest there's an HTC target with this res also
09:19:53[Saint]HTC Rezound
09:20:10GodEater_kugel: are you saying such a patch already exists?
09:20:29GodEater_neat - I didn't know
09:20:48[Saint]Well...there's a currently non-functional branch.
09:21:06[Saint]its being actively poked at, though.
09:23:32jdgordDon't get your hopes up
09:24:20[Saint]Oh...I'm not. I'm pretty accepting of the fact that we need to do either full native or resolution specific themes/builds.
09:24:31[Saint]both, are a PITA
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13:19:53mc2739please ban Occupepreetly for forum spam
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14:43:29Zagorwho knows IAP? I'd like Ralfs big iap patch set to be reviewed.
14:44:47CIA-44Commit d2f97da in rockbox by Björn Stenberg: (Author: Ralf Ertzinger) Make logf() output to serial optional
14:47:14CIA-44d2f97da build result: All green
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14:51:07pamauryI'm afraid not so many people know IAP and not so many have accesories to test
14:55:03gevaertsThe best we can do is probably review the code as such, and then get test builds out
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15:48:29user890104what does *PANIC* mount=0 mean?
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15:49:36*[Saint] suggests grep'ing for it
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16:01:44kkitso, if i plug in my clip and it starts heating up like crazy, that's probably bad, right?
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16:26:48pamauryuser890104: usually means that rockbox didn't find any valid partition to mount
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16:28:16user890104pamaury: it happens after a windows 7 disk check with error fixing
16:28:25user890104seems like windows unmounts the drive for some reason
16:28:55user890104the rb doesn't mount it
16:29:13user890104(it's 120gb ipod 6g)
16:31:46pamauryhum, strange, in fact I can't find any reference to this in our code. I'm pretty sure it means this though but I can't find it. Does windows mount it ?
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16:42:23user890104it's "mount: 0" not "mount=0"
16:42:45user890104it goes like this: i run the error check, windows tells me that it's finished
16:43:19user890104then i see the "media removed" icon in Computer (a removable disk drive without a disk inside) and i can't access the drive anymore
16:43:45user890104i select Eject, then unplug the ipod
16:44:01user890104then there's a white screen with black text:
16:44:07user890104mount: 0
16:44:44user890104and it doesn't respond anymore
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17:06:39 Join rocker [0] (449a2127@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
17:07:43rockerwhich command can I use to print ints and doubles please? rb->splash from the hello world tutorial says it uses unsigned chars so it didnt work
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17:17:21Zagorrocker: splashf()
17:18:06rockerZagor: Thank you. How come printf didnt work for me? I have #include "plugin.h" at the top of my file, that plugin.h has #include <stdio.h> at the top of it, which has printf
17:19:09Zagorprintf prints to stdout, but rockbox has no stdout. we only have an lcd.
17:19:57Zagorthe closest analogy would be lcd_putsf()
17:20:13pamauryuser890104: did you try to reboot the device and retry ?
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17:26:50rockerif the make command fails, make zip will fail also right?
17:29:37rockerdo the rockbox functions have documentation? in the plugin.h file, it says void (*splashf)(int ticks, const char *fmt, ...) ATTRIBUTE_PRINTF(2, 3); THats just a prototype right? What do the 3 dots within the parameters mean? Where can I find the function definiton or documentation on how to use it? im a beginner at C\
17:29:46rockerthank you for any help
17:34:41trusttrocker: it means the function can take 2 or more arguments
17:39:14rockertrustt: they calling are calling it a varargs function. is "varargs" t some common thing in c? and the 3 dots are common within c function prototypes too? or you can put anything you want? If i want to find the entire definition of the splashf function, is there some linux command I can use to search through the files and find its definition?
17:41:25rockerdoes anyone know any good c chat rooms? is there some website that lists a bunch of IRC channels and their populations?
17:42:11trusttrocker: if the function is declared in x.h by convention it will be defined in x.c
17:42:47trusttand if the declaration is in x.c then the definition should be in that file as well
17:43:01trusttare you new to programming?
17:43:12rockersort of
17:43:22trusttthen i'd recommend reading a book
17:43:24rockernew to linux and x
17:43:28trusttnot just scavenging information
17:43:43rockerthey will take too long to answer specific questinons like the ones i ask
17:43:48rockergoogle would be better
17:44:07trusttyou will have a better overall understanding if you read a book
17:44:26trusttand there are some things and conventions and good practices that you most likely would stumble upon yourself
17:44:27rockernot if i dont care about 50 pages of crap when i want the answer to a secpfic thing
17:46:29rockeri want to find out what the 3 dots within a function prototype do and what they are called. it could take hours of skimming books that dont answer certain specific things but google would be better
17:51:50rockerplugin.h and plugin.c dont contain a definition of splashf. I want to find some documentation or more info on how to use it. can someone please tell me if theres some linux command I can use or something to search the contents of the rockbox files to find the definition of splashf?
17:54:37user890104pamaury: yeah, rebooting fixes it. only hard reset works, shutting down (long PLAY) doesn't
17:55:07pamaurydoes it happen each time you plug your device ?
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18:17:11GodEater_rocker: grep -r what_you_are_looking_for *.c
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18:27:44scorche|shrocker: stop
18:27:59rockerscorche|sh: are you a bot?
18:28:06scorche|shdoes it matter?
18:28:48rockerscorche|sh: is there a bot here that can tell me the link for this channels pastebin if it has one?
18:29:54scorche|shno and there is no channel pastebin - there are hundreds of other pastebins on the net for you to use though...
18:30:48Mirthere is there is there is
18:31:00Miri dont think there is a domain without pastbin
18:31:53scorche|shMir: there are plenty ;)
18:32:11rockermydouble=10/32*49/51; rb->splashf(HZ*2,"%f",mydouble); my sansa clip v2 just prints the character "f" when i run this program. can anyone tell me how to fix it please?
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19:03:16lebellium_gs2Hi guys. I see the theme website issue has been fixed for the clip zip but there are still only 8 themes showing up for the Samsung R0
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19:10:50foolishgruntsup y'all
19:11:30foolishgrunti think my sansa clip+ had it's original firmware corrupted, and now i can't connect to PC via USB
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19:17:53foolishgruntah, it's one of THOSE irc channels
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19:30:50shaprFor my ClipZip, dynamic playlists are not automatically ordered lexicographically.
19:31:03shaprIf I wanted to alter that, would I modify the database code?
19:35:41user890104pamaury: no, only right after running windows' disk check with automatic error fixing option selected
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19:52:32wodzmortalis: Have you seen forum post about problems with uninstalling rb from 801? From the post it seems that DAC functionality doesn't work in rb. Have you looked at this? How this is organized? Maybe this is a matter of gpio toggling or something
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19:54:02rockerIs there documentation for the functions that has an description in english about what they do? e.g. the splashf function? i looked at the PLUGIN_API file but it just looks like a bunch of function definitions
19:54:09shaprOk, I've discovered that tagcache.c builds the database, and should sort the playlist.... hmm.
19:55:34Torneshapr: are you starting the dynamic playlist from the database, or the filesystem?
19:55:50shaprUm. I don't remember. Is the behavior different?
19:56:09themoonHi guys! New 3.10 rb build does not seem to work on my iriver h140, no matter is I choose auto install or overwrite .rockbox folder manually and then flash both rockbox.iriver and rombox.iriver files with iriver_flash
19:56:10Torneif you start them from the filesystem, then the dtabase has nothing to do with it :)
19:56:13shaprTorne: Probably the database, by author
19:56:25shaprThat's how I normally do it.
19:56:29Tornedatabase playlists should always be in the same order as the database query that they're generated from
19:56:41shaprhm, I'll check to see if it's user error first then, thanks
19:56:44Tornethe sort order is up to the database's tagnavi configuration file
19:56:50Torneyou can change it, if you want
19:56:55Tornebut playback order should match display order :)
19:57:13wodzthemon: could you elaborate a bit more?
19:57:28*shapr googles
19:57:35themoonit hangs at a bootscreen
19:58:07themoonand sometimes message no rockbox folder is displayed
19:58:19themoonmy iriver is flashmodded
19:58:40wodzthemoon: smells like file system issue. run fsck/chdsk or whatever
19:58:47themoon32Gb CF card which works perfectly will all the previous builds
19:59:50wodzyou may also try to remove cfg file - it was reported several times that old cfg could hang boot
19:59:52themoonwell, such idea crossed my mind as well, but should not all other previous versions fail to launch as well
20:00:30themoonremove it and then manually overwrite?
20:01:15wodzmv it somewhere. it will be recreated automaticaly on boot - at least should
20:02:10themoonalso I was wondering if it could be a problem due to bootloader version. But mine is 7-pre4 which I guess is up to date
20:03:13wodzwait if you romboxed it there should be no bootloader
20:04:15themoonIf a press hold and power on I have boot options to choose from - RAM, rom or disk. And there is says bootloader version
20:04:35 Quit rocker (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:06:17themoonalso an observation: though 3.10 version hangs during boot resetting via dedicated 'reset' key on my iriver results in booting options - as I described below - and then no matter what options I choose 3.10 loads just ok
20:06:18 Quit foolishgrunt (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813])
20:06:57wodzok I'am not that familiar with h1x0 loading process I thought that rb is simply put at the begining of the flash and reset vector adjusted
20:06:57themoonwell, until the next power off - and on... which results in a same freezing at a bootscreen
20:08:51wodzforcing hard reset does not remove 'cookie' from memory which indicates correct boot so it takes different code path
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20:10:16wodzsome dev with h1x0 is needed here - gevaerts maybe
20:10:27pixelmathemoon: (not sure as I also don't have an H1x0 but) did you flash the 3.10 build to RAM or ROM and I /believe/ there is a boot order option - what's that set to if it's there?
20:11:04wodzflash to ram?
20:13:38themoonwell after manually deleting the old .rockbox folder I just copied the new one, disconnected the cable. Iriver rebooted after rolo and 3.10 booted ok. Then I entered the new rb folder and manually flashed two files - rockbox.iriver and rombox.iriver via open with... iriver_flash
20:14:27themoonthat's it. No matter what loading option I choose afterwards it either freezes during bootscreen or says no rb directory
20:14:55themoonsame procedure works just fine with any rb build other than 3.10
20:16:36themoonbtw 3.10 does not work the same way on the other iriver, so it's not like this issue is specific to my unit only
20:18:17themoonwodz: how do I contact gevaerts? :)
20:18:37pixelmaabout the bootloader - I believe the one you mentioned is the last known good one. Do *not* try a newer one as someone really destroyed his H300 by flashing a newer bootloader - and if you say it's working with older builds I don't think that's the cause of the problem
20:18:51wodzthemoon: he has been highlighted allready so just wait
20:19:11themoonok, thanks!
20:19:36wodzpixelma: I believe the problems with bootloader is H300 issue but still it is better to not touch bootloader without BDM hardware I agree
20:19:45 Quit fyrestorm (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:19:49*gevaerts doesn't know much about the h1x0, really
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20:20:26wodzgevaerts: but at lest you have hardware to play with
20:20:38pixelmaSlasheri would be the best person to talk to but I don't know if he's really around and if he knows about 3.10
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20:22:11themoonwell, if it does load 3.10 after pressing reset then I guess there should be a workaround
20:22:24wodzanyway I *think* that what is happening is that rombox and rambox are the same and exhibit the same problem. After hardreset cookie is not cleared and bootloader comes into action and loads image from hd which for some reason works. But this are my suspision
20:22:42*wodz goes reading crt0.S to confirm
20:25:03themoonproblem is, hdd boot option (CF card in my case but I don't think it matters) does not solve this. I.e. after I swith off the unit then enter boot options screen and choose it, it still hangs. Provided that I power down device with pressing the shutdown button and not reset
20:25:17themoonin the latter case it works
20:29:15themoonyep, it sure is
20:31:12themoonactually I find previous builds just as fine, but 3.10 sounds quite a bit different on iriver, more refined. If not for this fact maybe I would not even bother
20:31:49wodzdo you have rockbox.iriver file in .rocbox on hd?
20:32:41themoonyes, after deleting the old rb folder I copy the new 3.10 one with all the files
20:33:19wodzdoes it rolo correctly?
20:34:07themoonYes it does. I'm sure there's no mistake on my side otherwise I won't be able to normally install all previous builds
20:34:26themoonand after failing to launch 3.10 obviously I roll back to them
20:36:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:36:25wodzsince all images are of the same version rombox, rambox, rb on hd it would be rather hard to find a pattern but this definitelly sounds like bug on our side
20:37:29wodzcould you try to start current build from hd? I mean to leave 3.10 in flash and change only version on hd
20:38:35gevaertsthemoon: so the procedure would be (a) update to bootloader 7pre4, (b) flash rombox and rockbox, and (c) try booting from either rom image or ram image?
20:38:41themoonyou mean delete old folder, install 3.10 (with file flashing etc), then delete the new folder and write back the old one and try to load from hdd?
20:39:57themoongevaerts: I already have bootloader 7pre4, flashed rombox and rockbox and also tried to boot from rom ram and hd
20:40:09themoonit works only after reset
20:40:26gevaertsthemoon: yes, but I didn't, and I want to make sure I'm doing the right things here
20:40:59themoonwell after manually deleting the old .rockbox folder I just copied the new one, disconnected the cable. Iriver rebooted after rolo and 3.10 booted ok. Then I entered the new rb folder and manually flashed two files - rockbox.iriver and rombox.iriver via open with... iriver_flash <themoon> that's it. No matter what loading option I choose afterwards it either freezes during bootscreen or says no rb directory <themoon> same procedure works just fine with any
20:41:09themoonsry for quoting myself =)
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20:42:30themoonwodz: should I try to replicate this issue by following this steps: delete old folder, install 3.10 (with file flashing etc), then delete the new folder and write back the old one and try to load from hdd?
20:42:36themoonI can try it out now
20:43:42wodzfirst try just to replace rb on hd and force booting from hd
20:44:29wodzI think bootloader is fine and what is affected are rb binaries but since you have all variants of the same version it is a bit hard to judge
20:45:31themoonok I'll give it a try now
20:46:20gevaertsOK, I think i see the same thing
20:46:40themoonwhat do you mean? same error?
20:46:52gevaertsFirst boot after a clean shutdown doesn't work, the boot after a reset works. Same for rom, ram and disk
20:47:27wodzgevaerts: cool - you can bissect :-)
20:48:05themoonexcept for the very first boot after flashing which actually works after shutdown
20:48:11gevaertsLet me try 3.9
20:48:19wodzso I guess themoon is the first h1x0 user who upgraded his DAP to 3.10 :-)
20:48:46themoonnot really, the first one who _tried_to_ :)
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20:49:01gevaertsIt's not clear to me if it fails if you don't flash it
20:49:43themoonwell, do I have to try anything on my device - since you seem to have replicated this error?
20:49:54gevaertsDon't forget that the released bootloader is still v6
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20:52:50themoonthe really weird thing is I managed to have 3.10 working after soft shutdown, after lots of experimentins. Not for long though :-)
20:53:30gevaertsok, 3.9 indeed works
20:56:24themoonand I tried installing rb on a hard drive rather than CF - it does not matter in this case, behaviour is all the same
20:56:53gevaertsAnd a current build is broken
20:58:08themoonSo there a possibility 3.10 will actually work at some point, when fixed - cool :-) love its sound
20:58:30*gevaerts has very serious doubts about 3.10 not sounding the same as 3.9
20:58:51themoonwell, it's not only mine observation, really
20:58:55CIA-44Commit 565a4b5 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: rds: make programme identification (pi) decoding safer, show pi in the debug screen
20:59:24themoonI have a bunch of people at our local community, who are audiomaniacs of a kind
20:59:31gevaertsBlind tests?
20:59:48themoonand they notice its different, though RMAA tests are exactly the same
21:01:03themoonwell, no, no blind tests. But 4 or 5 people notice the difference and there's actually no point in misleading anyone
21:01:14CIA-44565a4b5 build result: All green
21:01:41gevaertsNobody will be deliberately misleading people, no, but that's not what blind tests are about
21:01:57wodzit is not the case of misleading but rathe of selfsuggestion
21:02:33themoonI know and would really like to make some blind testing but unfortunately do not have two same players at hand
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21:03:36themooneither way, after switching rb builds back and forth on a same iriver a couple of people including me hear the difference :)
21:04:10wodzhmm, I am reading the code and I am wondering what code is actually executed after hard reset. If the cookie is not reset which should be the case in this scenario it should jump to 8 so just after the reset vector.
21:04:38wodzThe documentation doesn't mention what is there :-)
21:05:07*gevaerts is bisecting now
21:05:14themoonit should be noted however that irivers we use are modified with different DAC amp section etc - custom made =) still this 3.10 does not work on original irivers as well - as you can see
21:05:47themoongevaerts : fingers crossed
21:05:57wodzdac doesn't have nothing to do here
21:06:24wodzbah, you know what I mean :/
21:06:34themoonyup :-)
21:07:12themoonby dac I mean it has PCM1974 installed in it etc.
21:07:37themooneither way I'm not really good with terminology
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21:09:12themoon*pcm1794*... what matters is that all default builds work just fine
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21:17:42saratogaif you want to compare mp3 players, you need to record the output on a good ADC, and then normalize the volume
21:18:07saratogathis is actually what RMAA does
21:18:32wodzwith good adc part excluded
21:18:49wodzI mean that depands on hw
21:19:08saratoganot even good i guess, just good enough compared to what you're measuring
21:19:15saratogafor an mp3 player that probably doesn't mean anything special
21:19:44LalufuTorne: as I have been staring at the tagcache code for some time: there is no generic sort function, is there?
21:19:46saratogamy terrible laptop onboard audio can do frequency and THD plots quite well, but its too noisy for the SNR tests
21:20:42saratogathe important thing though is that any comparison be volume matched, otherwise the results will be worthless
21:20:55saratogaRMAA does this automatically, but if you do a listening test you must do it manually
21:21:51themoonI have emu 1212 which is supposedly very good at testing but I really see no point in this :-) what sounds better to your ears is what you should stick with - just as simple as that. Be it selfsuggestion or not
21:22:36wodzsaratoga: not to mention "proper" loading with the term "proper" not very well defined
21:23:00saratogathemoon: the problem is that without volume matching the results will not be reproducible
21:23:55saratogasince you're not actually comparing the output of the devices, but rather the power output at a given volume setting
21:24:01themoonsaratoga: ok, but do different rb builds have different absolute volume at same db setting?
21:24:24saratogagenerally no, but different devices and firmwares do
21:24:41saratogaalthough we do occasionally change DAC configurations on players
21:25:19saratogai would expect any two relatively close rockbox builds to be level matched on a given device if you don't change the DAC driver and use the same player for both tests
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21:25:50saratogabut then i would also expect any two close rockbox builds with no changes to the dac driver to produce identical output too :)
21:25:58saratogaif not, we probably broke something
21:26:35wodzsince we have problems with booting the letter is guaranteed
21:26:44themoonI did not hear any difference in volume between rb older rb builds and current but rather in a way music is presented. All the hardware is the same. Current rb build sounds more recessed
21:27:11saratogagenerally small differences in volume are heard as differences in the way things sound
21:27:52saratogasince people have only a course ability to recognize the level of sound, but their sense of frequency response depends very sensitively on it
21:28:16saratogausually when people complain that something sounds different in some non-specific way, its because volume changed
21:28:19themoonYep - I've compared quite a bit of DAPs and know what you mean
21:29:16themoonbut it's not really like that. Btw people with cowon x5 who have similar modifications made to their players hear the difference as well
21:29:23saratogamy general stance is that unless someone can show me a difference in RMAA, or that they've done a double blind test with <0.1dB volume matching error, I don't really care what they report
21:29:33saratogasince they're wrong 99% of the time
21:29:42themoonto each his own I guess
21:29:50saratogaand the other 1% can try slightly harder when they report a bug
21:30:13themoonDo you refer to me? :-)
21:30:43saratogai'm not sure what specifically you're referring to on your player, but if you're in the general group above, then yes
21:30:49saratogaif not, then no
21:30:51themoonCause the sound is not the issue here
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21:31:36themoonIt's that 3.10 is not working on iriver h140 - and I believe it has been verified by * gevaerts now
21:32:23gevaertsBut you also claimed that 3.10 sounds different
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21:33:25themoonI mentioned sound... don't know why, really. It's just that I like how new rb build sounds, that's all. Btw one tech-minded guy also heard the difference on his device and tried to measure it. RMAA test are the same but still he says there is a difference
21:33:40gevaertsHe's wrong
21:35:05themoonIt's not a claim actually, more than an observation. I'm happy with the sound and if it will make anyone feel better will gladly assume I'm wrong too. Just please make working 3.10 build for my device
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21:49:10gevaertsthemoon: which version do you have installed now?
21:51:53themooni believe its based on 3.4
21:52:13themoonor 3.3 maybe. But I can update to 3.9 if needed
21:52:39saratogaso is 3.10 broken on the h1x0 for everyone?
21:53:08gevaertsI doubt it. I'm pretty sure you need to be running a v7pre4 bootloader
21:53:16gevaertsAnd that's not the default
21:53:27themoonfor me and for at leat another h140 owner
21:53:51themoonok so should I update to defauld 3.9 now?
21:55:14themoonI have v7pre4 bootloader, as far as I can see from the boot options screen
21:55:37saratogaah so more h100 bootloader weirdness
21:55:58gevaertsNo, it's more related to v7pre being needed for flashing I think
21:56:11*gevaerts has a theory he's testing right now
21:57:16themoonwell, but I _do_ have v7pre4 when flashing... anyway gl with your theory :-)
21:57:34gevaertsthemoon: well yes, hence me saying you need v7pre4 to see the bug
21:58:00gevaertsOK, this is it
21:59:29gevaertsthe culprit is r30393 / 7e14b935dfdcd808cfb0703d19a43efd11eeef16
21:59:36gevaertsIf you disable dircache, things work
22:00:12gevaertsSo I suspect it's the on-disk dircache dump that's not invalidated properly when loading things at different addresses or something like that
22:00:27 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6)
22:00:48bertrikCan I add a BSD licensed file from Minix 3 to rockbox?
22:00:51 Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:00:56wodzgevaerts: your are genious
22:01:08gevaertswodz: git bisect helped :)
22:01:10bertrikI want to add a gmtime.c implementation
22:01:31gevaertsI didn't do the last few revisions because that was the only one in 30 or so that could even be related
22:01:45gevaertsbertrik: bsd without advertising clause?
22:01:59wodzbertrik: that depands if this is 'fixed' BSD one or not
22:02:12themoongevaerts: so what should I do to install it?
22:02:34gevaertsthemoon: there's no fix yet, just a workaround. Disable dircache if you want 3.10
22:02:41gevaertswell, if you want 3.10 and flash
22:03:16gevaertsIf you're on CF you won't suffer from slowness too much
22:03:22bertrikgevaerts, wodz : this is the license
22:03:24themoondirectory cache as a setting in rockbox, disk settings menu?
22:04:04themoonoddly enough it has always been disabled on my device... unless it is on by default on 3.10
22:04:16themoonwhich I did not check
22:04:21gevaertsit's been on by default since a few releases now
22:04:45bertriklooks like it has a requirement for putting BSD license stuff in the documentation
22:05:00themoonso I boot to 3.10 after hard reset, disable it and soft shutdown to test?
22:05:17gevaertsThat worked for me anyway
22:05:22themoonok, will try it now
22:06:28 Quit bluebrother (Disconnected by services)
22:06:30 Join bluebrother^ [0] (~dom@rockbox/developer/bluebrother)
22:06:39saratogabertrik: when in doubt i usually just email the author asking for explicit permission to use in a GPL app
22:06:45themoonbtw maybe you know what is the best setting for disk spindown - provided I have a CF card and not a hd?
22:07:17gevaertsIt probably doesn't matter much
22:07:33 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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22:11:42wodzgevaerts: cutting down ata power in CF modded mpio hd200 saved quite a lot
22:16:23themoonit worked. Thank you, gevaerts!
22:17:34themoonHmmm, since I never actually used directiry cache befire - do I really need it with a CF? Any speed boost?
22:17:56gevaertsIt might still help a bit
22:18:14gevaertsBut then that's mostly academic for you until this bug is fixed I guess :)
22:18:29themoonRight :-)
22:19:56wodzbertrik: this license doesn't have adevrtisment clausule so should be no problem
22:20:10funman[Saint]: still no nano2g :/
22:20:37themoonas I mentioned before I managed to have new build working for some time even after soft reset, and like 20-30 or more times a row. And then when I was happy at least it stopped for no apparent reason. Hope this time it won't :-)
22:20:56gevaertsOK, bug reported. This isn't my area at all, so someone else will have to fix it
22:21:19bertrikwodz, but this looks like an advertisement clause, right? Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
22:21:32funmanMr SomeoneElse?
22:22:01themoonGreat, thanks again, gevaerts! See you guys
22:22:06gevaertsthemoon: given that it started with a dircache change and that I haven't been able to reproduce it with either a current build or 3.10 with dircache disabled, and it coming back as soon as I enable dircache again, chances are good
22:22:07[Saint]funman: right, hummmm...that sucks. I've been meaning to catch up with you to ask about that. I shall post another one today/tomorrow. (Today if I get a chance to go home before the post office closes or happen to have one in my car).
22:22:11funmanbertrik: perhaps look for gmtime in uclibc
22:22:25funman[Saint]: what kind of post package did you use? insurance?
22:23:18themoongevaerts: any tips to where I should look in order to see fix for this bug?
22:23:34wodzbertrik: this is not advertisment caluse
22:23:35[Saint]Domestic par avion.
22:23:43gevaertsthemoon: watch FS #12590
22:23:44fs-bluebot Dircache breaks when flashing rombox or rockbox on h1x0 (bugs, new)
22:24:11funman[Saint]: it might make sense to take insurance this time, what do you think?
22:24:25wodzbertrik: and see the section about original BSD license
22:24:25[Saint] /probably/ ;)
22:28:09themoongevaerts: thumbs up! :-)
22:28:31*funman didn't know about rombox on iriver
22:29:05 Quit themoon (Quit: CGI:IRC)
22:36:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:38:35 Quit z180 (Quit: Page closed)
22:47:53 Quit dfkt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:48:50saratogadoes fp math work in plugins?
22:48:52 Quit wodz (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
22:51:07bertrikwodz, still not quite sure about that
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22:52:31gevaertssaratoga: yes and no. I believe it tends to work, but it's going to be horribly slow
22:52:52saratogaok thats what i thought
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23:23:52saratogaban meesqueFlenna spam
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23:43:29n1ssaratoga: i think the calculator plugin uses float math
23:43:44n1sso as gevaerts said
23:44:15n1ssome codecs use(d?) float stuff for some non time critical stuff too

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