#rockbox 2012-02-20

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#rockbox log for 2012-02-20

00:01:38		Quit ender` (Quit: Arguing that Java is better than C++ is like arguing that grasshoppers taste better than tree bark. -- Thant Tessman)
00:24:28		Join factor [0] (~factor@r74-195-184-248.msk1cmtc01.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net)
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01:00
01:00:10		Quit [Saint] (Quit: Quit)
01:00:36		Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
01:04:30	*	[Saint] really wishes there was debug info for themes in the sim still/again.
01:09:14	saratoga	some kind of centralized place to turn on debug info in the sim would be nice
01:09:30	saratoga	something like a switch that puts every LOGF message in a given part of rockbox ontot he console
01:09:55	saratoga	or even just a standard format for dumping logging info in the sim that could be parsed to pull out one kind of message (i.e. codecs, wps, etc)
01:11:49	[Saint]	Skin debug probably needs a fair but more work...I think the fact it stopped working during the skin break lead to the widespread not caring of its non-function, and more commits that'd make it yet harder to re-implement.
01:12:53		Quit jdgord (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
01:29:02	alexbobp	adnap and I just got sansa clip zips
01:32:41	[Saint]	Gah!
01:33:03	[Saint]	Why oh why can't we check in advance for aa?
01:33:47	[Saint]	I'm not asking to display it...oh no...but can we not briefly render all the "non-aa" cases in a theme before the aa check goes true?
01:34:10	[Saint]	The resulting "flicker" makes the prettiest themes looks ugly.
01:34:17	alexbobp	antialiasing?
01:34:32	[Saint]	album art.
01:35:04	alexbobp	ah, okay.
01:35:56	[Saint]	A theme rendering all non-aa cases on track skip, because it doesn't yet know if the aa checks are indeed true...looks like a barf sandwich.
01:36:38	[Saint]	Being able to check if at least the tracks in the buffer have aa would "fix" this.
01:37:29	[Saint]	Hmmmm....that might not be vary many, or even one full track on raaa.
01:37:36	[Saint]	*very many.
01:39:35	[Saint]	Ouch....3.88MB not occupied by RaaA Cabbie
01:39:50	*	[Saint] needs to trim some fat.
01:40:08	[Saint]	badly.
01:43:19	[Saint]	Any 320x480 and/or 480x800 [Saint]'s RaaA Cabbie users able to give "free buffer" data with the theme loaded?
01:44:31	[Saint]	I'm guessing its just as much of a horror story elsewhere ...lucky its all onenand/flash based (except for a few obscure HDD based Android targets).
01:45:23	Thra11_	tried building rockbox for the first time today. surprisingly painless. kudos to the devs for making it so easy, especially considering the massive number of host and target systems
01:46:02	*	[Saint] will poke RaaA users on G+ this afternoon for free buffer data.
01:46:44		Quit Scromple (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
01:47:03		Join Gartak [0] (~Gartak@187.37.37.136)
01:47:27	Gartak	good evening
01:48:17	Gartak	please, I have some general questions about customizing those chinese shitty MP3 or MP4, or MPx gadgets...
01:48:54	alexbobp	YESSSSSS usbmode on clip zip!
01:49:00	alexbobp	I'm never running sansa code again!
01:49:04	alexbobp	you guys, this makes me so happy
01:49:07	*	alexbobp hugs the entire devteam
01:49:38	Gartak	first, is it generally possible to reverse engineer them? or, are their sources available online for us to customize and flash?
01:50:04	Gartak	I would like to know how dificulty is to hack into them
01:50:35	alexbobp	I doubt sources are available... I'd suspect there's as easy to hack as more mainstream models though
01:50:41	alexbobp	just not as many interested developers I guess
01:51:01	alexbobp	there's a neat little player Radio Shack used to sell under their Gigaware brand
01:51:27	alexbobp	which would be a good deal if it had rockbox :P
01:51:31	[Saint]	They're usually the bare essentials.
01:51:44	Gartak	I see, and thanks for replying :)
01:53:18	saratoga	Gartak: we reverse engineer hardware to reimplement our own software
01:53:19	Gartak	I'm asking because someone asked me if I can customize some chinese players... He's goingo to buy hundreds of these to customize, putting his company logo in them, and giving them away for clients as a gift
01:53:58	Gartak	saratoga: this is exactly what I would like to try...
01:54:18	saratoga	Gartak: some vendors do sell generic mp3 players based on a reference design, but I suspect you'd have to buy >50-100k before they're going to be interested in you
01:54:46	Gartak	oh, I see..
01:54:50		Join [Saint_] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
01:55:18	Gartak	well.. the problem in my case is that we don't have vendor support, because our numbers are too low...
01:55:31	Gartak	that why I would need to reverse engineer
01:56:10	Gartak	let's suppose I would give it a try.. what would be the first step? to identify the chipset?
01:56:23	saratoga	i guess you could look and see if someone will sell you a batch of mp3 players with the bootlogo changed for a reasonable cost
01:56:55	saratoga	i don't know if theres vendors that do very light customization like that, but i tend to think not because of the time required to flash a small batch of players
01:57:05		Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:57:09	saratoga	i think most devices are flashed by the thousands before they're assembled
01:57:54	Gartak	yes, indeed, I agree with you.. otherwise their cost wouldn't be low as it is :)
01:58:01	saratoga	once they're put into a device you can't use a bulk ROM programmer, so someone would have to manually flash devices on a PC, which would be quite slow
01:59:15	[Saint_]	Isn't there already a project that tries to run on these generic chinashit players?
01:59:29	Gartak	indeed.. but in this this situation, is it easy to find the right tools for a given chipset, to dump the ROM, identify it's segments and start reverse engineering?
02:00
02:00:06	Gartak	I'm trying to google this and I can find nothing about it.. the only interesting link was the rockbox website
02:00:27	[Saint_]	S1<something>?
02:00:36	*	[Saint_] memory fails
02:03:45	Gartak	[Saint_]: http://s1mp3.de/
02:03:49	Gartak	is this one?
02:04:20	[Saint_]	That's the one.
02:04:54	Gartak	cool! thanks for that :)
02:05:42	Gartak	one thing I don't get yet is: are these players all based in a common platform?
02:06:15	[Saint_]	If you're lucky, yes.
02:06:44	[Saint_]	If you're unlucky, there's observed ire substitution or undocumented change! Yay!
02:07:03	[Saint_]	Bah! Autocomplete
02:07:20	[Saint_]	If you're unlucky, there's obscure substitution or undocumented change! Yay!
02:07:28	Gartak	I see...
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02:09:41	Gartak	mobile phones, for example: they're mainly based on infineon, qualcomm, ti and mediatek chipsets.. almost every mobile phone around today is based on one of these... but how does this work for mp3 players? who does manufacture their chipsets?
02:09:45	[Saint_]	S1Mp3 are probably the "experts" with these dime-a-dozen chinacrap clones.
02:11:01	saratoga	scorche: I thought you said the forums were setup to prevent zero posters from using PMs?
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02:11:26	saratoga	i just had one contact me
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02:12:52	alexbobp	I just discovered the screen of my broken fuze slides is really easy to remove
02:12:58	alexbobp	does anybody know where I could buy a replacement screen?
02:13:30	Gartak	at ebay
02:14:08	alexbobp	and if the screen turns all white any time it's powered, should I assume the problem is the screen?
02:14:24	saratoga	that probably means theres no signal to the pixels
02:14:55	Gartak	it may be caused by a faulty flat cable too.. specially if it's a slide one
02:15:34		Quit Thra11_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:16:27	alexbobp	it's a slide flat cable, yes
02:16:36	alexbobp	but that part would also come with a new screen
02:16:40	alexbobp	is it possible to replace the cable on the screen?
02:17:47	Gartak	depends on the phone
02:18:11	Gartak	I have a t-mobile mytouch 3g slide.. I bought it for cheap with the screen cracked
02:18:51	Gartak	and it has a main flat cable that moves when we open and close the phone, and it's a separate part
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02:19:12	Gartak	it's plugged to the screen, not soldered to it
02:19:38	alexbobp	it's a sansa fuze, not a phone
02:19:52	alexbobp	and I googled around and can't find displays for it...
02:20:24	[Saint]	You need to buy a "dead" Fuse
02:20:35	[Saint]	You can't get screens new.
02:20:40	Gartak	http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-Replacement-LCD-for-Sansa-Fuze-MP3-players-/230743905395?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item35b9689473#ht_500wt_950
02:20:46	alexbobp	ah, sounds like a good idea
02:20:48	Gartak	here's a replacement LCD for it
02:21:01	alexbobp	oh sweet
02:21:02	alexbobp	thanks Gartak!
02:21:02	[Saint]	Well...I'll be damned.
02:21:17	alexbobp	$10 free shipping! a steal to revive my favorite model mp3 player ever
02:21:24		Quit [Saint_] (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
02:21:37	[Saint]	Ah, its used. I wondered the catch.
02:22:01	alexbobp	is that a catch? he says it's in good condition
02:22:03	Gartak	yes, and be sure it's the right model
02:22:14	alexbobp	"oh god, someone else watched porn on this little screen before me" big deal ;)
02:22:21	Gartak	lol
02:22:39	[Saint]	Gartak: V1/2 Fuse == same screen.
02:22:49	Gartak	generally seller are serious at ebay, but double check everything before buying
02:23:16	[Saint]	The Fuse screen is a bitch to replace....though.
02:23:31	alexbobp	seriously? it was easy
02:23:40	alexbobp	I'm just scared how I'll get the ribbon for the scrollwheel back into place XD
02:23:50	alexbobp	but I don't even have to try until I have a new screen
02:24:05	[Saint]	The screen itself, fine. The tiny cable for the faceplate.....HAHAHAHA! OMG-DRIVE-YOU-INSANE!
02:24:17	alexbobp	haha yeah exactly
02:24:27	Gartak	youtube has great videos on dismantling many gadgets
02:24:43	alexbobp	it's gonna take one hell of a video
02:24:55	[Saint]	You think its seated...but no...only 3 of 5 buttons work, or all buttons...but no button wheel light...etc.
02:25:05	Gartak	ouch
02:25:09	alexbobp	all buttons but no wheel light wouldn't be a problem for me :P
02:25:11	alexbobp	idk about wheel light
02:25:17	[Saint]	Then, it snaps. As its brittle as hell.
02:25:20	alexbobp	but I didn't have all buttons. (this was an older fuze I used to have)
02:27:25	saratoga	you need a very small set of tweasers or similar tool to insert the cable with the case almost closed
02:29:09	[Saint]	Whilst checking everything functions before snapping the zif closure, and case, shut.
02:30:11		Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
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02:33:49	Gartak	oh my... these S1 players run on z80 processors! :)
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02:39:34	scorche	saratoga: reece?
02:41:41	saratoga	scorche: yeah
02:42:21	scorche	hrm - i am not sure how he sent one unless he posted, then sent it, then his post got deleted
02:42:45	scorche	i am looking at permissions for the zero-poster group now - they shouldnt be able to send personal messages - just read them
02:46:17	scorche	yup - i just made a new account and tried to send a PM - it worked =/
02:48:59	*	[Saint] blames gevaerts ;)
02:49:06	scorche	saratoga: something seems to be quite broken - i disabled their ability to read PMs as well - they can read, send, and even access the staff list which they shouldnt be able to do
02:49:13	saratoga	weird
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02:54:10	saratoga	is there someway to compare to the SQL table entry for your new user that was blocked with someone like reece who was not blocked? perhaps that will reveal whats different for them
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03:10:27	saratoga	gevaerts: also, I've noticed some weirdness with recent posts
03:10:45	saratoga	your patch fixed most of the problems, but occasionally I'll see the recent posts list reset itself
03:12:15	[Saint]	Or the recent posts pages crapping out at ~3 pages
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06:49:08	CIA-44	Commit 5833cc1 in rockbox by Michael Sevakis: pcmbuf minor cleaning
06:51:10	CIA-44	5833cc1 build result: All green
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08:31:11	kugelp	Can people please realize that the thing is called Fuze, not Fuse? ;-)
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10:56:44	webguest74	hi
10:57:26	webguest74	I need some information about rockbox on sansa clip zip, can anyone help? please
10:58:34	[Saint]	Not if you don't ask a question.
10:59:38	webguest74	sorry? whats the question?
11:00
11:00:07	[Saint]	You're the one that knows that...aren't you?
11:00:25	[Saint]	I can't answer a question you don't ask ;)
11:00:50	webguest74	lol sorry
11:01:19	webguest74	Im thinking buy a new mp3
11:01:32	webguest74	and the sansa clip zip looks a good option
11:01:45	webguest74	the questions :P
11:02:13	webguest74	with rockbox the baterie have the same duration?
11:02:14	[Saint]	That's a statement :)
11:02:30	[Saint]	Ah..that's a question.
11:03:29	[Saint]	I'm not sure on the current duration of the Clip Zip port, if there is any info...it will be on the runtime section of the wiki.
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11:07:13	webguest74	but in other cases the baterie keeps in the same duration? or decresses?
11:08:22		Join [Saint_] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
11:09:50	[Saint_]	In some cases, Rockbox exceeds the manufacturers runtime quite dramatically, in others, the reverse is true.
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12:00
12:22:10	[Saint]	FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!
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12:30:31	[Saint]	JdGordon: If this is possible to do in a "non-blocking" way...I just can't see it.
12:30:37	[Saint]	re: popups.
12:31:20	[Saint]	any timeout related check makes for a blocking instance.
12:32:23	[Saint]	either checking for "area touched last" or "variable changed in ~"...both need to wait for at least the timeout to value before the false check can be "true"...so, blocking.
12:33:13	[Saint]	I understand you don't have a lot of time...but, I'm really stuck here. there's nothing I can do to move forward.
12:36:19	[Saint]	The timeout is important, as we don't want to make users dismiss the popup manually.
12:36:50	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:37:52	JdGordon	ok...
12:38:55	JdGordon	ok, let me get a sdl sim going
12:39:01	JdGordon	480*800?
12:39:48	[Saint]	either 240x320, 320x480, or 480x800
12:40:04	JdGordon	they all are the same behaviour?
12:40:10	[Saint]	Yeah.
12:40:32	JdGordon	k cool, 800 heigh doesnt work too well on my laptop
12:42:09	[Saint]	I don't mean to bug you about this...I just think that you're not clouded by the many attempts I've had to get this working ;)
12:42:31	[Saint]	You're quite likely able to come up with something simple and elegant I'm just not seeing.
12:43:58	[Saint]	If we really have to...if timeouts will always block conditions, I can look into adding magic to make a second touch on the same area make the popup disappear, but, I'd rather not go there.
12:44:04	JdGordon	I'd be far more open to fixing it if you used git :)
12:44:15	[Saint]	Oh, certainly ;)
12:44:53	JdGordon	so nu?
12:45:29	*	[Saint] is unfamiliar with the term.
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12:46:24	JdGordon	arg, not loading
12:48:26	JdGordon	is the sdl home still ~/.config/rockbox.org/ ?
12:48:54	[Saint]	Pass.
12:49:31	JdGordon	seems to be
12:49:37	[Saint]	240x320 is definitely loading on target...so, I should hope I haven't ballsed anything up.
12:50:15	JdGordon	320*480?
12:50:44	JdGordon	dsfwhy the hec is −−wpsdebug so freeking useless?
12:50:47	*	JdGordon glares at self
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12:50:59	*	[Saint] has no target of that res available.
12:51:25	[Saint]	But, unless there's some silly error that snuck in the code should be identical except for viewport offsets.
12:53:47	*	JdGordon switches to 240*320
12:54:49	JdGordon	wtf? that res doesnt build for sdl-app
12:55:06	[Saint]	:-S
12:56:46	JdGordon	no, seems to be broken git for some reaosn
12:59:31	JdGordon	oh ffs
12:59:35	*	JdGordon needs sleep
13:00
13:00:02	[Saint]	Another day, perhaps :)
13:00:09	[Saint]	Its not going anywhere.
13:00:58	JdGordon	OK.. hats the issue?
13:01:50	[Saint]	The volume and context popups ar eblocked by the timeouts in the conditions.
13:02:32	[Saint]	For example, when re-entering the .wps, you need to wait before launching the context popup (but not the volume popup for some reason).
13:03:03	JdGordon	I dont understand... exactly whats the repro steps?
13:03:20	JdGordon	ah, hmm
13:03:52	JdGordon	'variable' is a great variable name :)
13:03:58	[Saint]	best test is "open the context popup (press the AA), then go to the quickscreen, then back to the .wps, try opening the context popup immediately"
13:04:39	[Saint]	opening volume/context popups on top of each other can also cause the conditions to block each other.
13:08:15	JdGordon	minor, you really should have exactly one region for each variable setting touch area
13:08:27	JdGordon	so A and non AA are exactly the same press region
13:09:55	[Saint]	Hummm? neither of those viewports interfere...only one is ever displayed, obviously.
13:10:10	JdGordon	yeah, but the duplication is uneccesary
13:10:18	JdGordon	and i think ordering is going to be your issue with the viewports
13:11:03	[Saint]	Draw ordering shouldn't be an issue either, nothing overlaps.
13:11:14	*	[Saint] was quite careful about this.
13:11:50	JdGordon	not exactly sure how to explain this
13:12:17	JdGordon	at 0:01 you press AA, variable changes to 2 (popup shown)
13:12:31	JdGordon	at 0:02 you press volume, variable = 3, volume shown
13:13:02	JdGordon	0:03 you press AA, variable changes to 2, but immediatly changs to 3 when the %?Tl(volume) line is checked because it is still technically true
13:13:15	JdGordon	does that roughly explain the problem?
13:13:22	[Saint]	Yep.
13:13:39	JdGordon	you need to add intermidiate states
13:13:44	JdGordon	let me have a think
13:16:01	[Saint]	The problem, as I see it, is the timeouts...as I was expecting "false" to be true immediately after <timeout>, but the false value also relies on the timeout check, so it needs to wait for <timeout> after the true case for the false case to become true.
13:16:30	[Saint]	man that's confusing... ;)
13:16:48	*	JdGordon got a pretty cool behaviour going
13:16:54	JdGordon	%?and(%Tl(volume-touch,4.0), %if(%vg(variable), !=, 3))<%vs(variable,set,3)\|%?mv<%vs(variable,set,3)\|%vs(variable,set,1)>>
13:17:04	JdGordon	press volume with that line
13:17:31	[Saint]	heh.
13:18:31	[Saint]	I tried a similar thing with both %Tl calls...and ended up getting this cyclical flashing weirdness :)
13:19:02	[Saint]	totally expected once I looked at what I was trying to do.
13:19:30	JdGordon	you may need two variables
13:20:08	JdGordon	one to say which npopup to show, and one to control actually showing it
13:21:23	[Saint]	I'm not certain that no matter what we/I/you do, that the timeouts won't just bork everything.
13:21:54	[Saint]	I'd really like them to timeout automagically, but, if we have to dismiss them manually...sobeit
13:22:04	[Saint]	(but that was expressed as being a commit blocker)
13:23:01	JdGordon	this might work... when you press AA/volume change variable to 2,3 (like now) but with a 0.1 timeout, and dont unset it
13:24:05	[Saint]	%Tl's min timeout is 1 second iirc
13:24:30	JdGordon	no, in .1s blocks, use the default timeout
13:25:17	JdGordon	then do %?vl(variable, 4)<%Vd(popup based on variables value)\|%vs(variable, 0)>
13:25:30	JdGordon	or is that what yoiu're doing already?
13:26:04	[Saint]	I just tried a similar approach, and %vl had similar blocking behaviour...timeouts.
13:26:44	JdGordon	that "should" change popups when the region triggers
13:27:02	*	JdGordon needs a trimmed down wps
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13:29:12	JdGordon	hmm, it almost works
13:30:18	[Saint]	I was using just %?Tl(variable)<%vs,set,,2/3(depending which)> with the touch areas, and a %?vl(variable,timeout)<%?vg<1\|2\|3>\|%vs,set,1> line doing the viewport display (simplified), but it still blocked me.
13:31:02	JdGordon	%?vl() not %Tl()
13:31:02	[Saint]	Its the timeouts being the issue, or my lack of magic skillz to accomodate for them.
13:31:55	[Saint]	I need to use %Tl in the touch area viewports...otherwise how can I know when its been pressed to set the var?
13:32:36	JdGordon	oh correct, misread
13:34:40	JdGordon	you should in fact use %?Tl<> without any regions to make the popup stay open
13:34:41	*	gevaerts suddenly wants to be able to use overlapping images in a predictable way
13:35:54	*	[Saint] isn't sure he grasps that concept.
13:36:27	[Saint]	I don't want them held open if you press the screen anywhere...that's my issue with svn cabbie.
13:37:08	JdGordon	thats a side issue...
13:42:31	JdGordon	does printf not work in sdl-app?
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13:47:15	*	JdGordon is king
13:47:27	[Saint]	You figured it out?
13:47:51	JdGordon	I tihnk so... im not sure if my new tag was needed or not though
13:48:03	[Saint]	And yes, yes you are.
13:48:15	[Saint]	I have long revered you as "the skin God"
13:49:33	*	JdGordon would have liked to pastebin the git diff :/
13:51:52	[Saint]	You still can...its not like I can't figure it out and "hand patch" ;)
13:52:33	JdGordon	http://pastebin.com/aX149N6d
13:53:02	JdGordon	thats not completly perfect, I broke the text viewport handling, but the popups will open the corect one indefinitly
13:53:19	JdGordon	except changing volume doesnt keep the vol popup open
13:53:38	[Saint]	Oh...Hmmm.
13:55:40	JdGordon	oops, that diff is backwards
13:56:31	*	[Saint] figured that bit out.
13:58:34	[Saint]	Why isn't the volume popup heldopen on volume change?
13:58:42	[Saint]	Code seems to suggest it should be.
13:59:04	JdGordon	because timeouts are fundementally broken
13:59:10	JdGordon	:/
13:59:28	*	[Saint] suspected timeouts were the issue here.
14:00
14:00:25	[Saint]	This is a step forward...but text vp handling and the volume popup not displaying on volume change are an issue.
14:00:50	JdGordon	yeah, but that should be simple fix, just fix the big viewport conditional
14:01:01	[Saint]	volume change needs to dismiss any other open popup also.
14:01:42	JdGordon	im not sure if timeouts are the issue or the way conditionals are handled
14:02:53	*	JdGordon isnt entirely sure what to blame
14:05:16	[Saint]	wait...how is this even working?
14:05:35	[Saint]	that viewport condtiton is really fudged up.
14:05:45	JdGordon	kugel: why does printf not work with sdl-app?
14:10:20	*	JdGordon is confuzled
14:10:46	gevaerts	JdGordon: can %LT only be used if you're actually using list skinning?
14:11:37	JdGordon	probably
14:12:29	[Saint]	JdGordon: If I'm right....(variable) only needs two states now? As nothing is setting "1" anymore.
14:12:55	JdGordon	what the FUCK? this works fine if i run it in gdb, but doesnt if i run it normally
14:13:07	JdGordon	[Saint]: correct
14:13:30	[Saint]	So, in theory, I can remove it...and display the viewports that used to be "1" when %vl is false?
14:13:51	[Saint]	which should get the textual viewports back.
14:14:43	[Saint]	And yes...I missed you saying it earlier, but, "variable" is an awesome variable name ;)
14:15:09	JdGordon	gevaerts: any ideas what the hell can be happening here? the same binary works very differently if gdb is running ir or not!
14:15:24	gevaerts	JdGordon: sdl threads?
14:15:41	*	gevaerts hasn't seen this sort of thing
14:16:50	JdGordon	wow, added and removed a printf and its working correctly again
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14:21:29	gevaerts	JdGordon: given that %LT and %LI work in non-listitem viewports to show the current selection, it would be nice if that also worked without using skinned lists. I might have a look at that one of these days...
14:22:49	[Saint]	They used too...unless I'm mixing up tags.
14:22:56	[Saint]	*to
14:23:06	gevaerts	They don't work for me now
14:23:11	[Saint]	ListTitle and ListIcon...no?
14:23:12	JdGordon	[Saint]: my fix is to make %vs() dynamic, im not sure if that will break anyone though
14:23:14		Quit zenlunatic (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
14:23:14	gevaerts	No
14:23:22	gevaerts	That's %Lt and %Li. Those work
14:23:28	[Saint]	AH, sorry.
14:23:54	[Saint]	JdGordon: I'm the only one I've ever seen use it, and, svn RaaA cabbie.
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14:24:15	[Saint]	It was created, for this theme, if you remember correctly ;)
14:24:37	[Saint]	This theme has 3 or 4 tags birthed to its name.
14:24:42	JdGordon	http://pastebin.com/sTVKsxEK
14:25:03	[Saint]	pretty shameless abuse of my relationship with you really ;)
14:25:11	[Saint]	Shhhh....don't tell anyone.
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14:28:02	[Saint]	wow...its more than that.
14:28:05	[Saint]	Eeek.
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14:30:01	[Saint]	%vs, %vg, %vl, %Tl, "none", "lock",...volumebar backdrop.
14:30:22	JdGordon	all good
14:30:39	JdGordon	if other people used skins as much it owuld be less
14:30:43	[Saint]	I mean, sure...other people can use it, but, I feel a /little/ guilty :)
14:31:05	*	JdGordon adds the 'touch' command to %vs to just reset the timeout for a var without changing the value
14:31:52	JdGordon	arg, %vs/vg/vl isnt in the manual
14:32:31	[Saint]	they're in CustomWPS at least.
14:33:47	Fuze_v2	Hello ;-) How do I write to system register 0x20 in asm for sansa fuze v2? is it just str r0,#0x20? - I'm workig on the problem of freezing of the Fuze V2 during shut down.
14:34:45		Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
14:35:00	[Saint]	JdGordon: So...should I be waiting to play with this, or is there nothing coming that'll cause a re-write?
14:35:12	[Saint]	I _think_ I can do it "right" now.
14:35:54	[Saint]	I'm not sure what I'm looking at in that last pastebin apart from a non-backward diff (and crazy formatting ;))
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14:36:40	CIA-44	Commit 43fc2a5 in rockbox by Jonathan Gordon: skin engine: Make %vs() dynamic so it updated every screen update
14:36:41	CIA-44	Commit 9c21258 in rockbox by Jonathan Gordon: skin engine: Add 'touch' command to the %vs() tag
14:36:49	JdGordon	[Saint]: ^ :)
14:36:53	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:37:23	JdGordon	that last paste moves the %mv() handing into the volume text area which is always enabled
14:37:32	JdGordon	that hopefully unblocks you
14:38:16	[Saint]	Ah...Hmmm...maybe it is backward.
14:38:56	CIA-44	9c21258 build result: All green
14:39:34	[Saint]	Ooooooooh!
14:39:37	[Saint]	click
14:40:22	JdGordon	[Saint]: you might want to put %?Tl(whole_popup_region)<%vs(variable, touch, -)> in the popup so it doesnt dissapear while you're playing with it
14:40:45	JdGordon	then replace the shuffle/repeat mode button with a popup :)
14:41:04	[Saint]	I got told off for suggesting that.
14:41:26	JdGordon	ok, do it after commit :)
14:41:31	[Saint]	I was told I'd be actively blocked if I snuck too much popup magic in.
15:00
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15:28:27	dfkt	would it be possible to hold the email notifications for the forums until after spam was cleaned/verified? i get lots of notifications, 99% of which lead me to a thread with no new posts
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15:51:26	gevaerts	Can you use %Vd() from alternating sublines?
16:00
16:05:05	gevaerts	Oh, and what's the 0-time for alternating sublines? The time the skin loads, or the time the viewport the AS is in shows up, or...?
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16:37:57	gevaerts	[Saint]: do you know about alternating sublines?
16:38:12	[Saint]	I do, yes.
16:38:25	gevaerts	Good!
16:38:42	gevaerts	Then you know the answers to the questions I asked a while ago :)
16:39:39	[Saint]	Yes, and, viewport load.
16:39:46	gevaerts	Oh, wonderful!
16:40:07	gevaerts	That means it's possible to (ab)use them for fake transitions
16:40:19	[Saint]	Oh yes...been there ;)
16:40:45	[Saint]	transitions are...difficult, though.
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16:41:10	[Saint]	as there's no way I know of to do "run through these sublines, then stop"
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16:53:39	gevaerts	Sure there is. Make the last step as long as possible
16:53:58	gevaerts	If that's longer than the battery runtime, it's probably enough
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16:55:36	*	gevaerts suspects that the times are probably stored in ticks, and as 32 bit ints. Assuming signed int, that means 20000000 seconds, which is 230 days
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17:35:23	*	[Saint] thinks he just wrote the smartest metadata display code ever.
17:36:32	[Saint]	gevaerts: around?
17:36:42	*	gevaerts might be
17:36:58	[Saint]	You any good at parsing nested conditionals?
17:37:02	[Saint]	http://pastie.org/3421437
17:37:19	[Saint]	seems like the magic checks out...haven't tested it yet, though.
17:38:58	[Saint]	th absolute worst case scenario for metadata display is now: track title, filesystem position, codec info. (three seperate lines)
17:39:55	*	gevaerts doesn't see the composer!
17:40:23	[Saint]	I only have 6 lines max to play with.
17:40:48	[Saint]	Ages ago I put forward a vote for "vital metadata"...composer didn't make it in.
17:41:38	gevaerts	Year and VBR did?
17:41:47	gevaerts	Weird
17:41:49	[Saint]	Yep.
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17:42:33	[Saint]	the VBR info is only displayed if present, though.
17:43:06	*	gevaerts isn't sure about that directory order
17:43:25	gevaerts	Oh, wait
17:43:40	gevaerts	No, it's correct
17:44:23	[Saint]	yeah...there's some weird checks in there...it needs to know whats been displayed in the previous lines, so it can know what to display in the next.
17:44:52	[Saint]	I cut a corner, If I check for dve to re-check it.2, I can assume d1 is present and dont ha
17:44:58	ukleinek	hello, I got a Sansa E280 from a friend and the filesystem is broken. Is it (more or less) safe to just do mkfs.vfat on the usbdevice?
17:45:05	[Saint]	eeek!
17:45:10	ukleinek	hmm, a hidden OS/2 partition
17:45:35	[Saint]	I cut a corner, If I check for d2, I can assume d1 is present and not have to check for it again.
17:45:49	[Saint]	its unlikely a dir structure vanishes mid-track ;)
17:46:19	gevaerts	ukleinek: it's more or less safe to format the data partition, yes. It's less safe (but still recoverable, but don't do it anyway) to repartition or format the entire device. If possible, format from within the oF
17:48:01	[Saint]	gevaerts: I suppose I can display composer instead of codec info?
17:48:18	[Saint]	(if present, of course)
17:49:39	[Saint]	Its a rare case, though...you only get the full six lines here if AA isn't present.
17:52:51	Fuze_v2	How do I write to system register 0x20 in asm for sansa fuze v2? is it just str r0,#0x20? - I'm workig on the problem of freezing of the Fuze V2 during shut down.
17:53:47	jlbiasini	Hi I have a problem with using condition in manual compilation: manual doesn't seems to recognize the HAVE_SCROLLWHEEL condition. So I try to add \edef\UseOption{\UseOption,HAVE_SCROLLWHEEL} to the platform's file of the target I'm building: still no effect. If I remove the condition the latex code works.
17:53:48	gevaerts	[Saint]: I think the best thing to do is document how to do this. You're never going to build a metadata block that makes everyone happy
17:54:32	gevaerts	jlbiasini: are you sure you're not looking for \opt{scrollwheel}?
17:55:23	jlbiasini	gevaerts: it seems I should pay some more attention... thanks !
17:58:06	jlbiasini	gevaerts: yeah I just recompile, that was it
17:59:46	ukleinek	gevaerts: "within of" means via usb while OF is booted, right?
18:00
18:00:08	ukleinek	gevaerts: or do you mean somehow via the settings using the DAP only?
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18:01:24	jlbiasini	another question regarding git: while commiting a new version is there anyway I could change the usual Uploaded patch set X by some custom message explaining what I changed?
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18:05:04	gevaerts	ukleinek: I mean via the OF format function
18:07:28	[Saint]	gevaerts: No...I know I can't suit everyone, the idea though, is to always display as much usable info as possible at all times, and not leave a blank field in the middle of a text block.
18:07:51	[Saint]	So, always try and push the data up a line to fill the missing slot.
18:08:51	[Saint]	I'm not deliberately trying to accomodate for untagged files, but, this seems to have been a side effect.
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18:11:06	jlbiasini	kugel: thanks for you comment on my patches. stats and bounce PLA version should be ready for merging now.
18:13:21	*	ukleinek checks if there is a "format" function in the OF
18:14:52	ukleinek	there is a "reset all" option, but after a poweroff all settings and the data are back
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18:34:20	gevaerts	ukleinek: right. Apparently it doesn't have it. I know the c200 does, so I thought the e200 would too... So format it over usb, yes
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18:38:22	[Saint]	%s%ac%?Fn<%t(10.0)%?It<%It\|%Fn>;%t(10.0)%?Fn<%?Ia<%Ia\|%?D(2)<%D(2)\|%?D(1)<%D(1)\|%(root%)>>>> - %?Fn<%?Ia<%?Id<%Id\|%?D(2)<%D(1)\|%(root%)>>\|%?Fv<%(VBR%) >%FbKb/s %Fc>>>\|%?ig<%?iy<%iy\|%?fv<%(VBR%) >%fbKb/s %fc>\|%?fv<%(VBR%) >%fbKb/s %fc>>
18:38:24	[Saint]	%s%ac%?Fn<%t(10.0)%?It<%It\|%Fn>;%t(10.0)%?Fn<%?Ia<%Ia\|%?D(2)<%D(2)\|%?D(1)<%D(1)\|%(root%)>>>> - %?Fn<%?Ia<%?Id<%Id\|%?D(2)<%D(1)\|%(root%)>>\|%?Fv<%(VBR%) >%FbKb/s %Fc>>>\|%?ig<%?iy<%iy\|%?fv<%(VBR%) >%fbKb/s %fc>\|%?fv<%(VBR%) >%fbKb/s %fc>>
18:38:27	[Saint]	AH!
18:38:33	[Saint]	whoops..
18:39:19	*	[Saint] apologises for hist pasting error
18:39:30	[Saint]	(and typos)
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19:31:20	ukleinek	gevaerts: anything I have to pay attention to? Like number of fats etc.
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19:32:42	saratoga	Fuze_v2: (for the logs) no str on ARM only stores to the ARM address space
19:33:09	saratoga	i believe the power management registers are accessed over an i2c bus, you'll need to use the code in rockbox if you want to read/write them
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19:48:28	*	ukleinek tries fsck first
19:49:50	ukleinek	doesn't help. repeating it asks the exact same questions
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20:45:59	lorenzo92	kugel: without bugging you...did you see the fm radio patch for r0? :)
20:46:14	kugel	yes. but no time currently
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20:57:35	lorenzo92	yeah no problem, just to know :)
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21:01:14	ukleinek	gevaerts: http://pastebin.com/JvF58w8p :-(
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21:07:45	gevaerts	ukleinek: go through a full reecovery procedure, including sansa.fmt
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21:27:48	bluebrother^	any news on genlang? Otherwise I'll try to give it a go
21:29:35	n1s	news?
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21:33:13	wodz	gevaerts: You seem to have a clue about our makefiles. Where is the rule to build libskin_parser.a in app build?
21:34:17	bluebrother^	news as in someone looking into it ;-)
21:34:39	gevaerts	wodz: lib/skin_parser/skin_parser.make?
21:35:30	wodz	gevaerts: partialy, yes. But where it is used
21:35:53	gevaerts	from tools/root.make
21:36:26	wodz	gevaerts: in tools/root.make it is added as dependency to build rockbox.elf but this line is protected by ifndef APP_TYPE
21:37:41	*	gevaerts doesn't see that
21:40:09	wodz	gevaerts: line 198 lists $$(SKINLIB) as dependency for rockbox.elf but this is inside ifndef APP_TYPE in line 173
21:41:25	gevaerts	wodz: where are you looking? That doesn't match my tools/root.make
21:42:47	wodz	tools/root.make, hmm maybe this is copy is not in sync
21:43:48	wodz	no it is the same in web view
21:44:08	wodz	in line 173 you have ifndef APP_TYPE right?
21:44:16	gevaerts	no
21:44:35	wodz	http://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=blob;f=tools/root.make;h=3cdee2caf72f02ce81fda4b118ebd8037bf5f0f7;hb=HEAD
21:44:36	gevaerts	hm
21:44:43	gevaerts	why am I in the 3.10 branch?
21:45:08	gevaerts	Ok, now things match
21:45:55	wodz	I am missing something obvious I guess
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21:48:02	kugel	wodz: raaa builds each have their own .make. for android it's android/android.make, for sdl i believe its uisimulator/uisimulator.make (historical remnant)
21:48:10	gevaerts	wodz: I think app builds all have their own makefile with the final link command
21:48:48	wodz	hmm, this would explain a lot
21:50:05	kugel	but tools/root.make shows which .make is included by the builds
21:50:09	wodz	ok, I think I get this now
21:50:19	wodz	thx
21:53:49	gevaerts	hm, I seem to be rather good at confusing the skin engine
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21:55:17	saratoga	"one tester reported battery bench lasted for 36h45m on a new 160Gb iPod, OF reached about 38 hours under similar conditions"
21:55:25	saratoga	the ipod classic power save stuff seems pretty far along
21:55:31	saratoga	anyone want to take a shot at committing it
21:56:18	n1s	saratoga: the cpu reclocking depends on the holdswitch patch which seems unfinished
21:56:30	wodz	saratoga: the problem is how this is implemented
21:56:49	saratoga	FS #12521?
21:56:50	fs-bluebot	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12521 iPod Classic/6G: cpu freq scaling (patches, unconfirmed)
21:57:14	n1s	i didn't bench the first patch on my classic but i don't think i got as big an improvement as he
21:57:58	saratoga	what about hte LCD sleep patch? FS #12523
21:57:59	fs-bluebot	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12523 IPod Classic/6G: LCD sleep (patches, unconfirmed)
21:59:41	bluebrother^	Bagder: around?
22:00
22:00:13	n1s	saratoga: yeah, FS #12523 sounds finished. I'll try to take a look at it in the comming days, have a bit of a headache now
22:00:14	fs-bluebot	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12523 IPod Classic/6G: LCD sleep (patches, unconfirmed)
22:00:30	saratoga	wodz: perhaps you could put what needs to be done in FS #12520?
22:00:31	fs-bluebot	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12520 iPod Classic/6G: holdswitch PMU polling crashes (bugs, unconfirmed)
22:01:56	wodz	saratoga: generally someone needs to rethink how we do polling. I had a talk about this with [7] but he seems to be busy/not particulary interested in this area
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22:03:30	saratoga	yes i gather hes quite busy
22:03:45	saratoga	so in the meantime what should be done about that patch?
22:04:10	wodz	saratoga: polling holdswitch from power thread is a bit ackward isn't it?
22:04:39	saratoga	how should it be done?
22:05:40	wodz	there are two ways 1) the simpler is to adapt the approach from this patch in more sane way 2) make i2c driver irq safe/reentrant
22:06:38	wodz	as for 1) polling keyboard from ISR is a bit weird anyway so this deserves more general approach (I mean for all targets)
22:06:38	saratoga	2 means handling an interupt on hold?
22:07:11	wodz	2 means not to bomb out when we call i2c function from isr as we do now
22:10:29	wodz	hmm, maybe this will be enough to poll holdswitch with decreased rate (100ms as in patch instead of standard 10ms) I mean as a fast hack
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22:11:06	wodz	n1s: how hard is to trigger holdswitch related instability on classic?
22:11:07		Quit bluebrother^ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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22:11:32	amiconn	Whether you can i2c from an isr or not depends on target (it depends on how the driver is implemented)
22:11:34		Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:11:52	amiconn	On at least some coldfire targets (iriver H300 iirc) we're doing this)
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22:12:06	wodz	amiconn: yes, and on classic it is not irq safe
22:12:17	amiconn	Then make it irq safe?
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22:13:08	amiconn	On some targets it's not feasible to do this (mainly the archoses, because i2c may see extreme delays there due to the mas)
22:13:28	wodz	amiconn: make who? I don't own classic
22:13:42	amiconn	Someone with a classic, of course
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22:15:31	wodz	\o/ finally I managed to build unwarminder as lib correctly on RaaA
22:17:06	amiconn	wodz: Btw, a while ago you asked why the uie and panic screens don't scroll. This is on purpose
22:18:00	amiconn	When either screen is called, something's already gone rather wrong, so those screens shouldn't rely on complex things like the tick and threading. Both are needed for scrolling to work
22:18:54	wodz	amiconn: by scrolling I meant ability to move down (aka display more lines then screen height) not the scrolling text
22:19:28	wodz	we shouldn't loose anything as first screen is displayed anyway
22:19:39	amiconn	That needs button reading to work, at least
22:20:20	amiconn	In fact in uie() I'd expect that anything interrupt related won't work anymore. Buttons either need the tick or have isrs themselves
22:21:06	amiconn	So -> no buttons, unless you have special hard-coded button reading there (like the reset from uie/panic on some targets)
22:23:43	wodz	yes, exactly
22:25:43	wodz	what is the nickname of pandora port maintainer?
22:29:41	bluebrother	Bagder / Zagor: can you please review http://gerrit.rockbox.org/111 ? It's supposed to make the genlang server script work again (at least partially)
22:30:17	bluebrother	right now it's not possible to create a voice file for all builds after the git migration using Rockbox Utility
22:36:00	n1s	wodz: i'm not sure, i don't think i ever triggered that, although it's supposed to be more likely with the reclocking
22:36:23	n1s	and i didn't try the reclocking patch without the holdswitch patch
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22:42:50	wodz	n1s: it would be interesting to see if simply decreasing the rate of holdswitch polling may be used as temporary solution. This patch polls with 10 Hz freq instead of 100 Hz as we do by default.
22:44:45	n1s	yeah, it's probably not easy to get anything conclusive and anywho IIUC it should just reduce the risk of it happeing to 1/10
22:45:00	n1s	1/10 of what it is now
22:45:19	wodz	kugel: could you try new version of unwinder? It should compile out of the box on android hopefully
22:45:42	n1s	it's also somewhat surprising to me that we can't get an interrupt for the hold switch as it can be used to power the thing on
22:46:22	wodz	n1s: maybe noone tried hard enough
22:48:32	pixelma	bertrik: I do have a vector version of the USB logo, BUT: I never use the "exported as bitmap" version in its raw form and wouldn't want that as the sign would be a bit too "thin" with it and it looks better if the lines are not aliased at their borders (looks cleaner, not blurry and is better visible)
22:49:09	pixelma	not sure if it's worth to commit that as I suspect no-one else than me would care about those things :\
22:49:31	pixelma	it's also only completely usable for the colour version
22:50:41	pixelma	and I'm currently not sure if I have the file with me
22:54:46	n1s	wodz: yeah, that could very well be it
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22:58:18	Milardo	Hi, is anybody interested in developing rockbox for meizu players?
22:58:54		Nick jae_ is now known as jae (~jae@dedicated.jaerhard.com)
22:59:41	wodz	Milardo: IIRC bertrik worked on this
22:59:57	Milardo	how can i contact him?
23:00
23:00:25	wodz	he often is on irc
23:00:56	Milardo	i think he is on now?
23:01:32	wodz	Milardo: anyway as I recall the main problem was lack of documentation for FTL and reverse engineering is rather complex and time consuming in this case
23:01:48	wodz	Milardo: he will read logs most probably
23:02:42	Milardo	i had emailed an employee of meizu and if I could send him the info needed for meizu rockbox he could see if he can get the information
23:03:52	wodz	Milardo: to be honest, don't hold your breath
23:04:28	[7]	wodz: I'm very well interested in this area, but right now I'm absolutely swamped with work
23:04:49	Milardo	are you a developer for rockbox
23:05:13	[7]	IMO the proper way to fix this stuff is to move the tick tasks out of that IRQ handler
23:05:38	Milardo	?
23:05:42	wodz	Milardo: yes I am
23:06:06	wodz	[7]: that is what I refered as more general solution
23:06:11	Milardo	do you happen to know exact info that is needed for meizu rockbox
23:06:41	Milardo	sorry I am not a developer, i just have a meizu m6 and would like to see rockbox on it
23:06:49	wodz	Milardo: not really, but http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/MeizuM6Port gives some hints
23:07:08	Milardo	been there but i am not sure what is needed
23:07:10	[7]	Milardo: documentation on just about everything: the processor/hardware, firmware file format, flash data format (FTL), display interface and parameters, ...
23:07:32	Milardo	ok
23:07:41	gevaerts	Milardo: from memory i think we mainly need FTL documentation and someone with both the required skills and the needed motivation
23:08:32	[7]	if you're talking about an S5l8700-based one (M3/M6 IIRC?) it's mostly the FTL, yes
23:08:35	bertrik	Milardo, it was mostly the flash translation layer that got me stuck
23:08:51	Milardo	ok, so you need the flash translation layer?
23:09:10	[7]	most other information about that hardware has been gathered from a leaked datasheet and reverse engineering ipods which use a similar chip
23:09:16	bertrik	we got the display working on the m3
23:09:27	Milardo	i can send you his email so you can email him the info needed
23:09:29	bertrik	but using the display on the m6 immediately froze the player IIRC
23:09:55	[7]	anyway, figuring out how these flash translation layers work and making a re-implementation of them work in a stable fashion, especially with write access, is a very tedious task
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23:10:42	[7]	took me like a month of full-time work on the ipod nano 2g, and lots of bug hunting/fixing thereafter
23:11:05	bertrik	another annoying thing about the m6 appears to be the very many hardware variations of it
23:12:19	bertrik	like different kinds of SDRAM, different ADC, different display
23:12:21	Milardo	there are 4 i think
23:13:02	Milardo	they consider meizu m6 m3 to be old products, so now i guess they are willing to provide the info
23:13:04	bertrik	and I got a couple of sansas in the meantime that are more fun
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23:17:53	Milardo_	go disconnected
23:17:57	Milardo_	got
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23:22:28	Milardo_	is anybody interested in emailing to try an get the meizu info?
23:22:29	Milardo_	i guess with info I got now will have to do when email the person.
23:22:29		Quit Milardo_ (Quit: If you think nobody cares, try missing a few payments)
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23:37:46	bertrik	pixelma, I see your point regarding the usb logo
23:38:51	bertrik	what I did now, is to take the 196x48 logo and scale it down by 2x, but indeed there is ugly mixing of the colours, not giving sharp edges
23:40:04	bertrik	from a distance, it doesn't look that bad
23:40:43	n1s	if you squint in a bad light
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23:52:48		Quit bertrik (Quit: And That, My Liege, Is How We Know the Earth to Be Banana Shaped)

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