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#rockbox log for 2012-02-21

00:02:52 Join Rower85 [0] (
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00:28:17 Join factor [0] (
00:31:31JdGordongevaerts: for reliable transitions (on touchscreen only though) you can do the alernating sublines as normal but in the last one set a skin var to some value and make the whole line conditional on the var being a different value
00:34:46*gevaerts nods
00:35:00JdGordonvs/vg is only on touchscreen currently
00:35:16gevaertsI'm pretty sure the rest of the approach in that sbs isn't very touchscreen-friendly though
00:35:33JdGordoni havnt looked yet.. just reading last nights log
00:35:49gevaertswell, it doesn't actually show a list at all :)
00:36:26gevaertsIt also tends to gets confused if you go back to a menu screen from e.g. the wps. Not sure what's to blame there yet, possibly a too simple %?cs<>
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00:38:09JdGordonconfused how?
00:38:51JdGordonhehe and what if your item has more than 22 letters? :)
00:39:05gevaertsIt shows a standard list in a large UI viewport as well as my special stuff
00:39:13gevaertsOh, don't do that then :)
00:39:24 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
00:39:48gevaertsI need extra tags to make that lot scroll cleanly
00:39:57gevaertsNot sure which ones, or if it's a good idea at all
00:40:34JdGordonyou need LUA :)
00:40:53gevaertsBah, no. That wouldn't be any fun at all! :)
00:49:41gevaertsJdGordon: by the way, %?if(%LI(-4,nowrap),>=,0)<%xd(icons20,%LI(-4,nowrap),1)> doesn't seem to work. When %LI(-4,nowrap) is -1 (i.e not >= 0), the %xd still applies
00:51:48gevaertsUnless of course I'm missing something trivial
00:52:11JdGordon%LI might be broken
00:52:29gevaertsIt doesn't look broken to me
00:53:13gevaertsThe text variant shows -1, and I don't really see how it can print that and still go wrong in the code
00:53:45JdGordonis %if not converting it to a number?
00:53:57gevaertsI don't know
00:54:11 Quit ender` (Quit: I believe the use of noise to make music will increase until we reach a music produced through the aid of electrical instruments which will make available for musical purposes any and all sounds that can be heard. -- composer John Cage, 1937)
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01:04:04 Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@
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01:05:39*[Saint] gives JdGordon a big, fat, juicy, heartfelt, nothing-but-the-finest-man-love kiss on the mouth.
01:06:31 Join mystica555_ [0] (
01:07:10[Saint]gevaerts: yes! ;)
01:07:47JdGordonI guess that means cabbie is ready for a commit push?
01:09:16 Join perrikwp [0] (
01:12:30[Saint]It means I've got it working...commit push, I'm not so sure I'm not sure how useful it'd be. For the now, it'll need its own wee branch, and I don't want to keep having to bug someone when I make a minor change.
01:12:49[Saint]THough I'm also not sure it warrants me being added to committers.
01:13:06gevaertsJdGordon: "fixes" the %?if() issue. The problem seems to be that it treats -1 as a special case
01:13:32gevaertsI guess I can do the check by seeing if %LT is an empty string
01:14:01[Saint]I'm just going through now and fixing up the existing ports.
01:14:25[Saint](I *completely* re-did metadata handling last night from the ground up)
01:15:22[Saint]{It'll now consolidate the metadata into a block of text with no spaces whatsoever if there's a missing field}
01:16:08JdGordongevaerts: that doesnt look terrible, its special casing for volume already anyway
01:16:28JdGordon[Saint]: yuou need to learn to not make major changes together if you ever actually want this in git :)
01:16:58[Saint][Oh...and the absolute worst case for metadata display is now "No album art, no tags whatsoever, played from /"]
01:17:26[Saint]JdGordon: That's why I've split the two off.
01:18:02JdGordonputting the metadata info into the skin code seems a bit broken
01:18:12gevaertsJdGordon: it works with %LT and '', so I'm not sure we should bother
01:18:16 Join Keripo [0] (
01:18:20[Saint]We've always done so...
01:18:25[Saint]How is it broken?
01:19:17JdGordonbecause what you might want to display isnt necessarily what i want to display :)
01:19:31gevaertsJdGordon: so where will you put it?
01:20:01JdGordonI don't know
01:20:02gevaertsI wouldn't mind a way to handle metadata better for different people, but I don't really see a good and simple solution
01:20:20JdGordonsince when is simple an issue when it comes to skinning? :)
01:20:30gevaertsApart from going all abstract and wavy and not showing metadata at all :)
01:21:24[Saint]The only new thing I've added (actually, my theme already did this, just not as well) is the theme now takes care of repositioning the data so that there's *something* to display...and in the few rare cases it can fall through, it consolidates the text and moves the next line up one to fill the gap.
01:22:02[Saint]I'm actually really bloody proud of my "conditionals of horror" for handling this.
01:24:32gevaertshm, division by zero in the skinned list code
01:25:08JdGordonit probably needs a full rewrite
01:27:00gevaertsmaybe, but this one looks easy to fix
01:28:17JdGordonwell, really I want to eventually strip out the hard coded lists implementation and just use the skin engine to draw everything
01:28:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:29:14[Saint]JdGordon: gevaerts: <−− finished(?) metadata handling rewrite
01:30:07CIA-44Commit 1a4da59 in rockbox by Frank Gevaerts: Make skinned lists handle the "0 items" case without crashing
01:30:36gevaertsJdGordon: sounds good, but maybe it should be a bit more solid before switching over :)
01:31:01[Saint]thats where you come in, dear gevaerts :)
01:31:19[Saint]You can also convert my cabbie work to skinned lists...yay!
01:32:20CIA-441a4da59 build result: All green
01:32:26gevaerts[Saint]: but my recent sbs work doesn't even *use* lists!
01:33:09[Saint]It does!
01:33:24[Saint]...just in a really weird, hacked up way ;)
01:33:42JdGordongevaerts: sure
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01:44:58[Saint]Nope! Not gonna mention it :)
01:45:09[Saint]"It works fine, yes...fine" :)
01:45:49[Saint]People /probably/ aren't going to do the weird shit I did to get blocking just now.
01:46:10[Saint]even then, its not actually "blocking", just a slight delay. I can deal with this.
01:46:32[Saint]It took months for a user to find the blocking behaviour as it was beforehand.
01:54:56 Quit polemon_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:59:32JdGordonuh oh.. what did you find?
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03:01:56[Saint_]JdGordon: "none" firing on a long press when defined as a short press is back...
03:02:46*JdGordon sticks fingers in his ear
03:02:48JdGordonno it isnt!
03:04:55[Saint_]Also, interesting bug: with wps hotkey set to "pictureflow", and the database not initialized, when I fire the hotkey I get the expected "database not ready" splash, but it never goes away until I press the hw "back" button, then I get the expected "plugin returned error"...(here's the interesting part) then a panic with "viewport manager overflow".
03:06:58[Saint_]Sorry: "*PANIC* Stack underflow....viewportmanager"
03:07:19 Quit mystica555_ (Read error: Operation timed out)
03:08:51[Saint_]Reproduction: " use my theme, don't unit database, have wps hotkey set as "pictureflow", try launch hotkey in wps (fails as expected), press "back" twice, panic"
03:09:11[Saint_]That's there more for I can make a propose report later.
03:09:28[Saint_]*proper too
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03:29:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:29:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:59:51*[Saint] *will* be adding a pop-up for repeat model.
05:59:57[Saint]*mode, too.
06:00:37JdGordondo it after commiting
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07:29:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:30:16ukleinekwhois gevaerts
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07:31:14ukleinekgevaerts: I need an .mi4 file for my friend's e280. Any hint where to get one?
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08:31:58 Join GodEater_ [0] (93722cd0@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
08:35:43 Join ender` [0] (
08:44:13 Join wodz [0] (
08:45:16wodzTorne: I hopefully addressed all comments in patchset 4 of unwarminder. Could you give it a final look?
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09:12:52JdGordonso.... how do we feel about the menu customisation patch on gerrit?
09:15:53JdGordoni've seen no discussion, and its done apart from the manual entry
09:18:14 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
09:20:22wodzimo manual is blocking part for now
09:20:27 Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739)
09:21:19wodzJdGordon: I also made (minor) comments to the code itself
09:21:57JdGordonwodz: wanna do the manual entry? :)
09:25:28wodztry to guess :-)
09:26:44*bluebrother considers looking into some sapi_voice.dll thing
09:27:05bluebrothersince MinGW doesn't have support for the MS speech API
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09:29:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:39:55bluebrotherwow. If this change really fixes it then the multithreading patch broke SAPI really badly.
09:44:22gevaertsukleinek: have you looked at ?
09:46:33ukleinekgevaerts: yeah, that's what I'm reading
09:46:56gevaertsRight, so download the files you need from the page linked from there
09:47:17ukleinekI use the e200 ones even though this is an e280 I assume?
09:48:47*ukleinek chooses "SanDisk Sansa e200 (European)"
09:52:57JdGordonwhich section of the manual shold i put the main menu customisation stuff in?
09:54:11JdGordonwhat on earth is the paragraph about settings not saving until shutdown doing in "introducing the main menu"?
09:54:36JdGordonpixelma: ?
09:54:44JdGordonwhy is that mentioned at all? it makes no sense
09:54:58JdGordonit even gives th eimpression that setting changes dont happen untill a reboot
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10:35:14JdGordonwho do i bug about the manual?
10:37:41JdGordonthe english in 5.7 settings is pretty bad also (no offence intended to whoever wrotree it)
10:40:02gevaertsJdGordon: I can help a bit with the latex side, but I'm not too familiar with the reasoning behind various ordering and content decisions
10:58:12*JdGordon wants to nuke this paragraph :/
11:10:06CIA-44Commit 72c41a3 in rockbox by Michael Sevakis: crosfade_mix_fade should be returning size_t, not int.
11:13:25CIA-4472c41a3 build result: All green
11:28:57*ukleinek followed "Restoring the original firmware" on now
11:29:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:29:17ukleinekthe last message is: "Writing main image" since a few minutes now
11:31:50ukleinekgevaerts: should the DAP autoreset when done?
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11:52:55JdGordongevaerts: ping
11:56:38gevaertsJdGordon: pong
11:57:05gevaertsukleinek: I don't know. It shouldn't be stuck though. If that fails, try reseating the flash
11:58:49JdGordongevaerts: wanna bug me about skin lists?
11:59:21ukleinekgevaerts: I pressed the power button now, and after power on I'm back in that readonly state.
12:01:11Tornewodz: i'll try and have a look this afternoon
12:01:13Torneoh he's gone
12:01:46*ukleinek tries formatting now.
12:04:50gevaertsJdGordon: the sbs in shows skinned lists in *some* screens, but not the main menu (where it shows no list at all). If you go to the wps and back, it shows the built-in (i.e. non-skinned) list, until you go to e.g. the file menu and back
12:05:23 Join factor [0] (
12:07:49gevaertsI get the same behaviour of suddenly showing the built-in after trying to go to the WPS (there wasn't anything playing, so it gives "nothing to resume" and goes back) list in
12:09:18ukleinekgevaerts: formatting didn't help either
12:10:08*gevaerts points out that his last suggestion was quite different from "try writing to it over USB again"
12:12:39ukleinekgevaerts: ah, I read "resetting" and assumed that to mean "format"
12:13:02*gevaerts tends to write "format" when he means "format'
12:26:47JdGordongevaerts: what target?
12:32:50JdGordonthat font is horrible!
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12:35:07gevaertsJdGordon: gigabeat F
12:35:37gevaertsAnd yes, that font was picked for stylistic consistency, not for readability :)
12:36:45JdGordonand yeah, you broke it!
12:37:47JdGordonyuck @ the %?cs line!
12:48:44GodEater_ukleinek: he didn't write "resetting" either, he wrote "reseating" - which is different.
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12:49:55ukleinekGodEater_: yeah, I noticed
12:50:25ukleinekGodEater_: but as "resetting flash" didn't make sense to me, I formatted it.
12:53:34GodEater_oh dear
12:59:01ukleinekGodEater_: what does "resetting flash" mean other than that?
12:59:53ukleinekgevaerts: I'm not a hardware guy, so I first have to find someone to reseat the flash for me.
13:00:39GodEater_ukleinek: if you don't think you know what something means, it's usually best to ask first, rather than trying something which may or may not be the right thing.
13:01:05GodEater_and as I understand it, reseating the flash in an e200 means taking the battery out, and poking something with your finger - it's not rocket science.
13:01:29GodEater_although caveat that with, "I don't own an e200" so I could be remembering it wrong.
13:02:22ukleinekah ok
13:03:25GodEater_It's either documented in the wiki somewhere, or at the very least in the forums.
13:03:27GodEater_have a hunt
13:11:46*Zagor spots an updated japanese.lang:
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13:18:39GodEater_nice of them to send it to us!
13:29:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:33:36ZagorI think we have a great unused potential in asian contributors. I see a lot of asian activity on twitter. perhaps language is a barrier.
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13:52:02crimpi have a qick questions
13:52:30crimpi want to upgrade my ipod classic video with a ssd drive
13:53:14crimpis it possible to format the ssd with fat32 oder ntfs and then install rockbox on it, without the whole apple system
13:56:19Zagorthe sansa clip zip manual is missing screenshots
13:58:04hiptobecubiccrimp, yeah.
13:58:26hiptobecubiccrimp, i put a cf card in my ipod 4G (pre-color)
13:58:40crimpso its possible?
13:59:05hiptobecubiccrimp, if i recall, you do need the apple firmware on it? but check the website
13:59:28hiptobecubicI don't have itunes or anything though. I just copy music directly
13:59:35JdGordonyou'll need to do a manual restore (easiest way is through itnues) but yes, it works
14:00:27hiptobecubicI have some ogg files that rockbox refuses to play. They play fine in every software player i have, there is no album art in the tags, i don't know what it could be
14:00:39hiptobecubici tried a random ogg file from the net and it worked fine. Just my album isn't working
14:00:44crimpso i absolutly need the itunes restore on my fresh ssd? or is it optional. the ipod just need to boot to rockbox
14:02:07JdGordonit can be done without itunes, see the wiki for instructions for a manual restore
14:02:14JdGordonlinked somewhere from IpodPort
14:03:32crimpthx i will have a look *happy*
14:03:48 Quit crimp (Quit: CGI:IRC)
14:04:16hiptobecubicOk so according to /bin/file, the files that won't play are of type "Wontplay_inrockbox.oga: Ogg data, Skeleton v4.0"
14:04:29Zagorhmm, I'm getting a segfault on all sdl builds I try
14:04:46hiptobecubicwhereas the working ogg looks like "Willplay_inrockbox.ogg: Ogg data, Vorbis audio, stereo, 44100 Hz, ~96000 bps"
14:05:39hiptobecubicogginfo says that the file that won't play has two streams. A skeleton stream and a vorbis stream, wheras the working file only has a vorbis stream
14:10:32hiptobecubicugh. I have to head out. If anyone has any ideas on this, please leave me a memo.
14:10:36hiptobecubic /msg memoserv send hiptobecubic <useful info>
14:18:28 Quit hiptobecubic (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
14:20:46ukleinekI pressed and wobbled now on the chip that I think is the flash. Still without success.
14:22:17gevaertsJdGordon: I think I got (at least part of) it
14:24:12gevaertsparse_listitemviewport() in skin_parser.c stores a pointer to the label in the listitem_viewport_cfg. However, the label is buflib-allocated, so this pointer isn't stable and when the render code later on tries to compare that label to the one it wants, it won't match, so nothing is rendered
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14:28:52JdGordonmakes sense
14:29:04JdGordonyeah, you know how i said i'd look at it tonight? well i havnt :p
14:32:32gevaertsI'll push a patch to gerrit
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14:38:08gevaertsThat does seem to fix the "nothing is shown" cases, at least in the sim. The other issue of the regular list suddenly being drawn after going to some other (non-list?) screens is still there
14:44:51JdGordonI'll try to look tomorrow, bed time!
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14:53:51gevaertsJdGordon: the other issue is related to things calling skinlist_set_cfg(NULL) and then cfg not being reset properly later on
14:54:58gevaertscommenting all of those out "fixes" the issue (but causes some other effects I guess...)
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15:02:57gevaertsJdGordon: when you wake up, also look at
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15:29:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:45:03CIA-44Commit 7da275c in www by Björn Stenberg: (Author: Dominik Riebeling) Make genlang server script work with git.
16:04:17Zagorbluebrother: committed. please test and report back.
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16:33:47sansaclipplushi, i tried to put a sd card in my clip+ and now the original firmware wont boot, gets stuck att the sansa logo. rockbox still works, both with and without the sdcard. its a bit annoying since i cant transfer music to it . anybody know aboout this? it was something wrong with the sdcard, it doesnt work now either. in computer or rockbox.
16:35:27sansaclipplusi have tried the basic stuff like holding down all the variuos buttons
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17:03:10idak1> Zagor: Before 3.10 release, one japanese (not me) posted japanese.lang (FS #12375) to answer "call for translators", but no rockbox developer have commited this patch, and I have been disappointed all rockbox developers.
17:03:11fs-bluebot Japanese Transrations (Re: Call for translators) (patches, unconfirmed)
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17:10:29LalufuJapanese drive by trolling?
17:13:24Zagoridak: thank you for the heads-up, I hadn't seen that. yes, sometimes patches gets missed and it's always unfortunate. I would like to encourage patch authors to remind us if that happens. we never ignore bugs on purpose.
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17:14:14ZagorLalufu: obviously he is reading the log
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17:31:29hiptobecubicSome of my ogg files won't play in rockbox, despite working everywhere else i've tried. According to /bin/file, the files that won't play are of type "Wontplay_inrockbox.oga: Ogg data, Skeleton v4.0", whereas the working ogg looks like "Willplay_inrockbox.ogg: Ogg data, Vorbis audio, stereo, 44100 Hz, ~96000 bps". ogginfo says that the file that won't play has two streams. A skeleton stream and a vorbis stream, whereas the working file on
17:31:29hiptobecubicly has a vorbis stream. Is there anything i can do about this?
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17:33:56incoganonHey. I have a trusty old Sansa Clip+, where I suspect the flash memory has gone bonkers (both Rockbox and the Sandisk software hang randomly, and Linux gives me some scary-looking errors when trying to fsck the mass storage device). Does anybody know of any success stories replacing the flash, or should I just get a new one?
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17:53:06MrFrostwhy only 8 themes are showing up for the yp-r0?
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17:56:19pixelmaJdGordon: I have no idea, I'd check the paragraph's or file's history
18:00:22GodEater_MrFrost: probably because there are only 8 themes for it
18:01:34pixelmaGodEater_: AFAIK the target shares screen resolution with the Gigabeats and the Fuze+ (?) and those have more themes
18:01:56GodEater_does it? It looks like a slightly weird size to me
18:02:04GodEater_not quite the same aspect ratio?
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18:03:48pixelmanot weird at all
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18:04:36MrFrostgigabeat and fuze+ themes suit for r0
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18:04:50MrFrostgigabeat and fuze+ themes suit for r0
18:05:00MrFrostI even uploaded a theme for r0
18:05:16MrFrostbut it doesn't show in it's themes section
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18:05:38MrFrostonly in gigabeat f/x s and fuze+ O_o
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18:08:10CIA-44Commit d5bd4ec in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: (Author: Jean-Louis Biasini) Fuze+: fractals's plugin keymaps reworks
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18:11:00CIA-44d5bd4ec build result: All green
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19:04:23bertriksaratoga, I think you noticed that the sansa clip+/clip zip OF uses 96 kHz sample rate for 96 kHz files, right?
19:04:53bertrikhave you done any measurements on how flat the frequency response is?
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20:03:45CIA-44Commit cfae625 in rockbox by Dominik Riebeling: Implement findProcess() on OS X.
20:06:10CIA-44cfae625 build result: All green
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20:26:39bluebrotherZagor: the updated genlang script on the server works fine, at least as far as I can tell. Thanks!
20:26:54bertrikI'll have a look at g110 tonight
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20:32:09saratogabertrik: I didn't test with RMAA, just pure tones to verify it wasn't being resampled
20:32:44saratogahowever given that the AMS chips use a directly coupled, oversampling DAC, I would be surprised if the frequency response is much different at higher frequencies
20:37:19bertrikI think so too
20:43:14saratogawhat brought up the question?
20:45:11bertrikI was wondering if I could use rockbox to play back audio files with ultrasonic content, like bat calls
20:46:36saratogaah yes, forgot about that project
20:46:45saratogai think you can, we have 96k support in the driver
20:46:55saratogaalthough i don't know if anyone ever tested it to see if it works
20:47:04bertrikbat social calls are mostly ultrasonic but still relatively low-frequency compared to their navigational calls, so 96k could be enough for those
20:47:56bertrikyeah, it's a bit weird that we have driver that can manage many more frequencies, but rockbox as a whole only supports 44k (AFAIK)
20:48:30n1syou can do other samplerates in plugins
20:48:54n1sit's the playback system that is fixed at 44kHz IIUC
20:48:57saratogadoom and midi use lower ones IIRC
20:49:05n1sand part of dsp also probably
20:49:09n1ssaratoga: yes
20:49:12saratogayou can probably go higher then 96k too
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20:49:20n1snot sure if anything uses higher
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20:49:34saratogathe as3525 datasheet only claims 48k, but that didn't stop them from clocking it to 96k
20:49:44bertrikyes, I guess so, there is nothing preventing us to use a different divider
20:49:50saratogai bet if you reduce the oversampling 2x it'll still operate at 192k
20:50:12saratogaalthough you might run into the transistion band of the filter somewhere up there
20:50:17bertrikoh, I thought it always oversampled at 128x
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20:58:05saratogaOversampling rate (needed for generating sclk and lrck)
20:58:11saratogaalthough, 128x is the lowest setting
20:58:37saratogado you have an oscilliscope or high speed A/D?
20:59:18CIA-44Commit bf4edb3 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: (Author: Nathan Korth) Fixed clock bitmaps for Sansa Clip Zip (96x96x16)
20:59:46bertrikI do have a high-ish speed A/D
21:01:42CIA-44bf4edb3 build result: 0 errors, 2 warnings (Nathan Korth committed)
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21:02:25n1sCIA thinks the author comitted
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21:47:18jlbiasinibluebrother: I've updated my manual patches and uploaded them to git... could you comment/commit them please? It was a lot of work to upgrade them to the current tree...
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22:32:34lorenzo92I have seen the cool idea of the RDS time sync, well at home I have a clock that does the same. It retrieves the time after about 5 minutes. it would be cool knowing how does it do...
22:34:21Tornelots of places just have a time signal broadcast on a particular radio frequency that clocks can pick up
22:34:31Tornenot RDS
22:35:42lorenzo92ah! now it's clear, tought it was through rds too ...
22:36:10lorenzo92of course this frequency is out from FM range, indeed?
22:36:13Torneno, it predates rds by decades :)
22:36:16Tornei have no idea waht frequency it is
22:37:46gevaertslorenzo92: dcf77?
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22:38:52lorenzo92gevaerts: eh cool! always something to learn :)
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23:08:38*gevaerts wants geometric transform tags
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