#rockbox 2012-02-27

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#rockbox log for 2012-02-27

00:00:02		Join Xephos [0] (~chatzilla@69.23.101.100)
00:02:05	Xephos	Hey, I wanted to install rockbox on my 5th gen ipod video, but I was wondering: how would I uninstall it if I don't like it, then reinstall the old?
00:03:25		Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120222074758])
00:04:48	gevaerts	Xephos: basically you'd connect it to your computer, run the installer program, and click "uninstall"
00:05:45	Xephos	:P
00:05:47	Xephos	derp
00:05:52	Xephos	Okay, lol
00:06:25	Xephos	I just wanted to make sure that it was a simple, hard to screw up process
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00:16:06	CIA-44	Commit 205785a in sandbox by Szymon Dziok: commit test1
00:16:06	CIA-44	Commit 18903d2 in sandbox by Szymon Dziok: git commit test2
00:33:05	Xephos	I installed it, but whenever I connect it to my laptop, it thinks I've connected a usb keyboard
00:33:13	Xephos	I want to uninstall it'
00:33:23	Xephos	but I have no control over the mouse
00:34:36	Xephos	any helpful hints?
00:38:47		Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
00:50:06		Join saratoga [0] (980329b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.152.3.41.180)
00:53:51	saratoga	was there a good reason the database doesn't have automatic update on by default? seems like users would generally want this on if they were using the database (and not care if it was on or off if the database isn't initialized)
00:55:07		Quit factor (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
00:56:46	amiconn	saratoga: Yes. Automatic update is extremely slow if dircache is disabled (or not available)
00:57:43	saratoga	and that wastes power or disrupts the UI?
00:58:11	amiconn	Also in my (very limited) experience database update is unreliable
00:58:42	amiconn	I rather rebuild the db than updating it (but then I only do so occasionally, as I'm not using it for real)
00:58:54	saratoga	perhaps it would make sense to enable it by default for devices that have dircache on by default?
00:59:00	amiconn	It wastes power and takes a lot of time
00:59:06	saratoga	if someone turns off dircache they could also turn off autoupdate
00:59:23	amiconn	Lowmem doesn'Ät have dircache
01:00
01:00:25	amiconn	Maybe it's not that slow on flash targets even with dircache disabled - never tried that
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01:02:27	saratoga_	sorry, freenode webclient silently dropped me
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01:04:04	saratoga_	anyway, i think its intuitive that if someone disables dircache that directory scans should get slower
01:04:29		Join notlistening [0] (~tom@5ac7d915.bb.sky.com)
01:04:50	saratoga_	hence i tend to think it makes sense to have update enabled if dircache is on by default too
01:04:59	saratoga_	seems like most users will realize whats going on if they explicitly disable dircache
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01:08:22	notlistening	Hi all, I have been looking at the raspberry pi board that is just about to be released its a ARM11 76JZF-S, are there any other arm11 targets?
01:08:34	saratoga	plus i tend to think people that disable dirache (probably to save memory or debug) probably aren't using the database anyway
01:08:52	saratoga	notlistening: yes several
01:09:03	notlistening	okay thanks saratoga
01:09:15	saratoga	gigabeat f/X, samsung ypR0
01:09:21	saratoga	lots of android devices
01:09:23	notlistening	anyone looking at a rockbox port yet do you know?
01:09:48	saratoga	never heard of it before
01:10:26	notlistening	its an interesting target worth a quick look
01:11:15		Quit saratoga_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:11:16	notlistening	probably no the best fit for an mp3 player however worth a look
01:11:24	notlistening	probably not...
01:13:51	notlistening	but the price is the interesting bit
01:14:10		Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
01:21:54	amiconn	The gigabeat F/X are not arm11. Gigabeatt S is, though
01:27:29	Xephos	Did anyone see my prior messages?
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02:11:16	saratoga	Xephos: (checking the logs) rockbox does act as a mouse if you have HID enabled
02:11:35	[Saint]	(In mouse mode)
02:11:39	saratoga	either disable HID in rockbox, or enable multiple mice on your laptop
02:11:48	saratoga	the respective device manuals probably could help you out if you need it
02:11:51	[Saint]	There's 4 hid modes iirc.
02:12:34	[Saint]	Mouse isn't the default, so enabling hid alone wont do it.
02:12:54	[Saint]	The default is "multimedia" I believe.
02:14:19	[Saint]	Oh....right. I see, whoops. Mouse isn't the desired effect here.
02:14:42	[Saint]	It must've been changed from its default.
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06:10:54	Mir	hmm
06:11:07	Mir	my clip+ has horrible battery live when using a microsd
06:11:08	Mir	:<
06:11:14		Quit Xephos (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
06:11:21	Mir	dont knwo why i got only 4 hours out of the battery
06:11:27	Mir	it was only flac
06:11:46	Mir	the same tracks i get 17 hours out of my C200 with
06:11:56	*	Mir thinks its the OFW
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07:00
07:01:02	kugel	[Saint]: did you upload your latest 320x480 version somewhere?
07:01:32	kugel	r00008 from fs#12254 isnt the latest is it?
07:01:33	fs-bluebot	http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12254 RaaA cabbiev2 [Full Touch Application Port] (patches, new)
07:03:10	[Saint]	No and no. My laptops power brick shat itself, before it had time to sync any files. Working in it now.
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07:12:57	davo	i've got a fresh working install of rockbox v3.10 running on a Sansa Fuze+, but when i power off the device, to plug into pc for file transfers, rockbox starts on the device and the PC doesn't recognize the device for mounting. any ideas what i have wrong?
07:14:59	davo	sorry, i meant to say i have a fuzeV2, not a Fuze+
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07:18:35	[Saint]	You've done nothing wrong, "we" did.
07:19:19	[Saint]	If you update to a current build, all will be well in the universe again.
07:19:45	[Saint]	davo: ↑
07:23:29	[Saint]	Long story short, the (intentional) behavior of booting to the OF for USB on these devices for the current release was overlooked when USB was enabled in current builds. And, it broke stuff, causing the behavior you're seeing. If you update to a current build, you should have working Rockbox-native USB.
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07:49:06	JdGordon	OK, I couldnt find a cable to work with my AJBR... so unless someone says they will test it on that or the ondios I'm going to go ahead and commit g#120 tomorrow
07:49:07	fs-bluebot	Gerrit review #120 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#change,120 : lcd drivers: Convert lcd_[remote_]framebuffer to a pointer by Jonathan Gordon (changes/20/120/9)
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08:00
08:00:26	davo	Thanks Saint, any ideas how i can get access to the device to update to a current build?
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08:16:36	davo	any way to remove rockbox without mounting it from a pc?
08:17:48		Join [Saint] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
08:18:03	davo	[Saint]: thanks for your response earlier
08:18:28	davo	any ideas how i can get access to the device to update it, or remove the current install?
08:19:01	[Saint]	davo: did you get it sorted out? Sorry, my wireless router fell off the desk and committed suicide.
08:19:37	[Saint]	You can force boot the OF by holding the left dpad button during boot.
08:19:46	davo	ah not yet, i only recently noticed your response and have been diddling around trying to mount the device
08:20:14	davo	oh bad ass!!
08:20:27	[Saint]	It just...wont, mount in Rockbox that is. You'll need to boot the OF for this.
08:20:35	davo	[Saint]: that worked, i had no idea of that "trick"
08:21:16	[Saint]	I know its cliche, but, we have a fine manual. Its worth reading.
08:21:38	davo	awesome, i had no idea there was a means to get access to the OF. Indeed, i do need to dig into the manual
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08:22:30	davo	sad to admit, but i had been enjoying the app so much i failed to take the time to rtfm :\
08:22:41	[Saint]	Were there no means to access the OF, you'd have a lovely, tiny, Rockboxed paperweight right now. :)
08:22:54	davo	Exactly my thoughts!
08:23:10	davo	but you guys are too smart to let something like that go unnoticed ;)
08:24:10	davo	i'm sure if someone wanted to do that though, they could sure wreak havoc on many rockbox devices :D
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08:25:34	[Saint]	Well....it actually took rather a long time to realize that the behavior of booting the OF in the release for USB was broken. The only reason its not a total tragedy is the fact one can boot the OF manually on demand.
08:25:49	bluebrother^	Rockbox is not an "app" ...
08:25:56	[Saint]	It was only noticed a few days ago.
08:26:36	bluebrother^	maybe mkamsboot should have a means to switch the behaviour
08:26:36	davo	wow that's pretty damn cool
08:26:52	[Saint]	bluebrother^: Except when it is?
08:27:32	bluebrother^	[Saint]: ah, right :)
08:28:03	bluebrother^	but then you don't have issues with boot order on USB ...
08:28:14	[Saint]	This is true :)
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08:29:42	bluebrother^	so no, it's not an app (in this case)
08:30:42	[Saint]	davo: you may or may not notice, depending on your usage, but there's been quite a few advancements since 3.10, you should he happy with it.
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08:31:48	[Saint]	You're now able to assign shortcuts in the main menu, re-order the main menu and/or hide unwanted items...quite a few theme related additions also.
08:32:34	davo	oh no doubt i was very happy with the 3.10, being that it was my first time using rockbox, i have been very impressed
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08:33:31	[Saint]	Oh...in that case, I forgot my obligatory "Welcome to Rockbox" that I like to throw at new users.
08:33:46	[Saint]	So, Welcome to Rockbox :)
08:34:26	[Saint]	Thanks for being awesome.
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08:43:18	davo	awesome, thanks [Saint] and likewise, glad to be a proud user, i've even recommeded it to friends. i'm excited to try the new build. thanks for making awesome rockbox :)
08:44:15	KiwiCam	Awesome! Thanks guys for Rockbox and all your efforts. Loooovin' it!
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08:45:39	KiwiCam	The Sim is working. Happy Now. For the moment ;)
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08:50:20	[Saint]	KiwiCam: have you remembered what you wanted %ss to return a numeric field for yet? Your flyspray submission certainly seemed like you were full of ideas.
08:51:48	[Saint]	Oooooohhhhh....you'll be able to append st or th to the date now with an %if statement, woo! ;)
08:52:57	[Saint]	Or a textual clock that says things like "a quarter to <hour>" etc.
08:53:17	*	[Saint] throws some lame ideas in the pile.
08:53:56	KiwiCam	Zzzzzzzzt! Yes. I did indeed. True about the clock. I'd like something that people can still read though.
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08:55:38	KiwiCam	I'll probably be needing your advice later on.
08:57:59	[Saint]	Well...if I'm around, gimme a ping.
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09:00
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09:00:11	KiwiCam	Thanks. My Grandma codes better than I do. I'm so slow at this stuff. This'll take me months, unless I concentrate ;)
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09:02:15	[Saint]	Can I meet your Grandma? She sounds awesome.
09:03:53	KiwiCam	She'll blow you for $10.00. She's rather good.
09:05:40	[Saint]	Whoa.....ahem.
09:06:25	KiwiCam	(silence ensues)
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09:07:08	*	evilnick reminds KiwiCam that this is a logged channel and so anything non-rockbox should be in #rockbox-community :)
09:07:51	kugel	why does the config item for the root menu order have underscores?
09:10:16	[Saint]	Hum...no idea.
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10:19:51	GodEater_	Christ - that really is an appalling list of mentors :(
10:21:14	Zagor	maybe resolution independent positioning could be a project
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10:21:54	gevaerts	GodEater_: see why I'm not optimistic about it?
10:22:11	Zagor	downsides are that it a) touches damn near everything, and b) might not even be acceptable in the end
10:22:29	GodEater_	gevaerts: I do
10:22:42	gevaerts	Zagor: At first it sounds like one of those things that need an established developer
10:22:44	*	GodEater_ wonders what's happened to everyone's enthusiasm for GSOC
10:23:16	JdGordon	the lack of success in thepast few?
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10:23:57	[Saint]	Was that really that public? It shouldn't deter new students...only mentors.
10:24:17	[Saint]	I totally understand mentors being dubious.
10:24:38	gevaerts	JdGordon: I'd say that's at least partly caused by this lack of enthusiasm
10:24:56	gevaerts	[Saint]: the problem we have now is mentors and ideas
10:25:15	*	[Saint] nods
10:25:19	JdGordon	i tinhk also maybe that mentors who have good ideas want to do it themselves?
10:25:23	GodEater_	what / who failed last year?
10:25:27	gevaerts	And I personally think the underlying cause for that is our fundamental structure as a free-for-all anarchy
10:25:51	GodEater_	gevaerts: possibly true - but who would you see as dictator/overlord?
10:25:53	[Saint]	When you mentioned it, I tried to rack my brains for ideas...but everything I came up with was either way too much or way too little.
10:26:06	GodEater_	Bagder and Zagor are both too busy IRL to do much these days
10:26:12	gevaerts	GodEater_: I'm not saying that structure is wrong as such for rockbox
10:26:21	gevaerts	I just think it's not a good match for GSoC
10:26:46	*	JdGordon raises his hand to be the overlord!
10:26:56	[Saint]	Haha.
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10:32:34	GodEater_	is there an easy way to get stats from git/gerrit to see who our most active devs are these days?
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10:35:47	[Saint]	Its ugly, but you could grep the logs for occurrences of commit announcements.
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10:36:52	Zagor	GodEater_: git log?
10:38:19	wodz	I'd like to relocate bootloader. I crafted such code in crt0.S http://pastie.org/3470339 and such linker script http://pastie.org/3470350 - and I get warrning from gas: crt0.S:30: Warning: unrecognized section type
10:38:24	wodz	any hint?
10:39:00	wodz	the assembled .elf contains only .blreloc section
10:39:14	wodz	Torne: ?
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10:41:18	mrkiko	oh oh oh ! Switched to git!
10:41:32	mrkiko	ok
10:41:35	mrkiko	cloning
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10:41:45	[Saint]	Thanks for
10:41:53	[Saint]	that.
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10:52:33	Aevum	thats weird, with the clip OF i had 1040 files, and RB is stating 800
10:57:55	Aevum	but thank you very much for your work, it sounds better and runs better then OF
11:00
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11:08:40	Aevum	got it, 1014 songs
11:08:46	Aevum	1041
11:12:24	wodz	grr, I found out the origin of the gas warning but produced output is still wrong
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11:18:52	wodz	\o/ found it
11:19:34	[Saint]	KiwiCam: when you said you might need me "later"...did you mean later tonight, or later some time in the near or distant future?
11:28:30	KiwiCam	[Saint]: Later, as in any time. So no need to hang around.
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11:34:30	Torne	wodz: you don't need me to look any more? :)
11:35:25	wodz	Torne: yeah, I was caught by 1) typo 2) ld stripping unreferenced sections (aka vectors)
11:35:37	Torne	aha :)
11:36:13	wodz	still didn't run it on the target though
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12:51:49	JdGordon	ping anyone with any archos devices?
12:52:07		Quit spacechipm (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
12:52:28	JdGordon	Zagor: did you get anywhere with dyunamic lcd? or just as far as fiddling with th elcd api?
12:57:29	Zagor	I got a little bit further than that. afaik I had the menu sort of working and started looking at a wps. don't remember the details.
12:59:53	JdGordon	was that with scaling?
12:59:59	JdGordon	or just the patch on fs?
13:00
13:00:28	Zagor	with scaling
13:01:14	JdGordon	cool
13:01:27	Zagor	I remember adding a "resolution changed" event and playing with resizing the sdl window
13:02:08	JdGordon	do you want the HONOUR of redoing it on master? :)
13:02:31		Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
13:03:13	Zagor	yes, I very much intend to. life keeps throwing gunk in my path though :-)
13:03:50	Zagor	of course, if you beat me to it I probably won't cry. much. ;)
13:05:24	JdGordon	RL seems to have slowed down for me os I have spare time :)
13:05:30	JdGordon	but I wouldnt want to steal your fun!
13:06:03	Zagor	don't worry about that. if you want to have a go at it, go ahead!
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13:11:26	Zagor	I guess I should diff my old svn workspace and ensure you get everything.
13:13:21	JdGordon	i tihnk its in git.. or enugh is there
13:14:53	Zagor	well that sort of depends on how much wasn't committed, don't you think? :)
13:15:10	JdGordon	err.. sure :)
13:15:53	Zagor	16 files changed, 200 insertions(+), 137 deletions(-)
13:17:13	Zagor	slightly contaminated with my android clock stop testing
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13:20:16	Zagor	JdGordon: http://pastebin.com/eHMwFCeH
13:20:30	Zagor	for whatever it's worth
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14:14:38	Miezu	can anybody here help me with a clip+ problem?
14:15:10	Torne	not unless you stell us what the problem is
14:15:34	Miezu	today i was just listening randomly and an error popped up
14:15:43	Miezu	it's saying panic updating zie on empty dir 35
14:15:50	Miezu	and some box char at the end
14:16:31	Miezu	when I start it it just tries to play the song from where it left off but fails to do so
14:16:36	Miezu	and the error pops again
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14:18:18	SynrG	i suppose it would help to say which release you're using
14:18:39	Miezu	i just updated to the latest one
14:18:42	Miezu	same error
14:18:47	Miezu	not sure what i had before
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14:20:39	Torne	please check the actual version, rather than saying "the latest one", since that could be at least two things (the most recent release, or the current development build)..
14:20:55	Miezu	ok just a second
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14:22:25	Miezu	now i tried to open the menu it gave me data abort at 3004b18c fsr 0x8
14:23:06	Miezu	version is bf4edb3M-120221
14:23:26	Miezu	got it from dfkt at anythingbutipod
14:23:40	Torne	that's not one of our actual builds, then...
14:24:06	GodEater_	if you got it from anywhere other than rockbox.org - it's not one we care about over much
14:24:10	Torne	is there some reason you're using a build from someone else isntead of from our build server?
14:24:26	Miezu	oh well it had some patches i think
14:24:31	gevaerts	In genera though, I'd say checking the filesystem would make sense
14:24:32	Miezu	like some crossfeed
14:24:36	Torne	i'm sure it did
14:24:38	Miezu	I did a chkdsk
14:24:46	Torne	but you should try our unmodified builds before reporting a bug
14:24:51	Miezu	well i can get the official one
14:24:58	Miezu	let me do that then
14:25:32	Miezu	one question though]
14:25:50	Miezu	what do i have to backup from the folder to keep the runtime data
14:25:55	Torne	nothing
14:26:08	Torne	installing a new build does not overwrite any settings or user data
14:26:20	Miezu	well don't i have to delete the rockbox folder
14:26:22	Miezu	and get a new one?
14:26:22	GodEater_	(unless you delete it first. Not recommended)
14:26:22	Torne	no
14:26:39	GodEater_	there's usually no good reason to do that at all
14:27:03	Miezu	ok then it just had to refresh the media and i'll try the official build
14:27:54	Torne	if it still does it with the normal build, and you've run chkdsk on the filesystem with no errors, then tell us the exact panic text from the screen
14:28:06	Torne	also, is it just one file where it does this?
14:28:35	Miezu	well the chkdsk said it fixed some stuff and put it in a found directory
14:28:43	Miezu	it had something inside not sure what some kind of report
14:28:51	Miezu	and I can't play any file anymore
14:29:04	Miezu	the files, database and resume playback tabs don't respond
14:29:08	Miezu	if i can get to the menu
14:29:37	Miezu	the panic screen said updating size on empty dir 35
14:30:09	Miezu	also I can use the OFW to play music
14:30:19	Miezu	it does this with the rockbox only
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14:41:03	Miezu	ok I got the 3.10 now
14:41:08	Miezu	still does the same thing
14:42:35	gevaerts	hm
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14:45:58	Miezu	also the microsd logo is there even if i take the microsd out
14:46:33	Miezu	anybody?
14:50:12	gevaerts	I suspect there's probably something still "wrong" with the filesystem, in the sense that our FAT code doesn't like it (even though it might be valid otherwise)
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14:51:54	Miezu	so what should I do
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14:52:06	Miezu	can I fix it by reinstalling the rockbox directory
14:52:10	Miezu	or do i have to format it?
14:52:33	gevaerts	If I'm correct, reformatting would be the only option if chkdsk already did what it could
14:52:55	Miezu	also any way to get around the refreshing your media screen?
14:52:59	Miezu	it's darn annoying already
14:57:19	[Saint]	Don't boot the original firmware?
14:57:36	Miezu	can't seem to get the usb in rockbox
14:57:41	Miezu	at least not from what i remember
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14:57:55	[Saint]	Oh, right. Yes.
14:58:19	[Saint]	Clip+ on 3.10, sorry. I forgot you'd said that.
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15:54:57	wodz	I made kind of progress with rk27xx bootloader - main binary loads, and hangs on splash screen, backlight thread is working as bl reacts on keypresses. The same binary loaded into mem directly works :/
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16:47:16	jlbiasini	hey pamaury! My patch for sensibility setting works! http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/123/ but I guess that we will have to wait for do-it-right direction before to commit it. would you have some?
16:49:29	pamaury	hey ! I don't know what is the "right direction". Touching the settings is often controversial. As far as I'm concerned, the patch looks fine
16:51:18	jlbiasini	ok, I'm going to have a look at radio keymaps to see if it's ok. The radio seems to work very well - thank for your work!! :)
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16:51:53	chickpea	hello, I am having an issue with a sansa clip+, running most recent build of rockbox. It works fine, but one issue, it doesn't mount, in fact when inserted into USB port, it does not show up as a device either under Windows 7 or under linux x86_64
16:52:47	jlbiasini	does it charges?
16:52:50	chickpea	yes
16:53:03	chickpea	and usb connection shows up on the clip
16:53:09	chickpea	but just doesn
16:53:20	gevaerts	chickpea: which exact version are you running?
16:53:21	chickpea	sorry, it just doesn't show up as a device
16:53:37	chickpea	one minute
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16:54:54	chickpea	9f48f5f-120226
16:55:04	jlbiasini	are you sure you don't hold accidently some button pressed while connecting it?
16:55:12	chickpea	yes, sure
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16:55:24	chickpea	this behavior is also present in OF
16:55:32	chickpea	but only after installation of rockbox
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16:58:25	chickpea	ps, yes I have verified that is in MSC mode
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17:09:38	jlbiasini	pamaury: it seems I was too quick on my review for radio: I experience complete freeze of the device while using the autoscan fonction on first connection to radio. Radio go on playing but no key react (even volume keys) funnily while not reacting the touchpad reactive backlight
17:10:15	pamaury	that might happen if you didn't power down the device properly
17:14:04	jlbiasini	do you mean once? I've made some test and even after having power it down softly it still freeze after autoscan
17:15:48	jlbiasini	chickpea: if it also occurs on OF it might be a hadware problem... :(
17:16:13	chickpea	strange, but this also happens on my clip v2 as well. Let me verify once again
17:17:18	jlbiasini	you could try to reboot... your computer! :)
17:17:34	chickpea	jlbiasini: well that's also something that I was considering :)
17:17:54	chickpea	perhaps something with dbus or fuse went screwy
17:18:53	jlbiasini	I once had the problem with a sd card usb and fuze+ there is a knowned issue but it was definitivly my computer
17:19:29	chickpea	brb
17:19:39	jlbiasini	??
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17:25:45	pamaury	jlbiasini: are you sure you have the latest git head ? I'll try tonight but the patch worked on my fuze+
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17:26:00	pamaury	oh, perhaps I forgot to commit the init delay, I'll check that
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17:27:25	jlbiasini	your last commit appears on saturday...
17:27:35	jlbiasini	I guess yes :D
17:31:12	pamaury	I committed a delay but perhaps it's the not the right one, if you want you can try to change it now if you have time
17:31:38	jlbiasini	where is this delay?
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17:33:31	pamaury	see e67a1af it's in power-fuzeplus.c
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17:35:10	jlbiasini	ok I'll have a look
17:36:06	pamaury	I should probably have a look at the datasheet to use the proper delay, if available
17:40:10	jlbiasini	so it's the udelay value?
17:40:36	jlbiasini	why would the felay woks without autoscan and not with?
17:40:37	pamaury	yes
17:40:46	jlbiasini	*delay
17:41:13	pamaury	what do you mean ? the delay ensures a proper initialization of the radio
17:41:35	pamaury	if the delay is too short, the radio might not work
17:43:46	jlbiasini	the radio works. I means I can hear sound and set station. But when I launch it, it always ask me If I want to do autoscan, if I say yes it does it and once it reaches its end freeze. If I say no it works
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17:44:26	pamaury	hum, weird
17:44:37	pamaury	that's not related to the udelay then
17:44:54	jlbiasini	that's what I meant
17:45:21	pamaury	I admit that I always cancel autoscan before the end :)
17:45:30	pamaury	I'll investigate this
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17:52:18	bluebrother^	JdGordon: I have an Ondio SP but I can't do any testing for the next couple of hours
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18:23:20	dfkt	does rockbox support non-embedded png album art? the manual only mentions what works for embedded
18:24:45	gevaerts	no
18:25:10	dfkt	i see, thanks
18:25:31	Torne	that seems kinda weird.
18:26:04	dfkt	would be nice for my c64 screenshots for SID tunes ;) jpegs are 10 times larger than pngs in that case (at reasonable quality)
18:26:44	gevaerts	We don't have an in-core png decoder
18:26:50	Torne	oh
18:26:56	Torne	..then how does it work in embedded?
18:27:12	dfkt	embedded isn't supported either
18:27:20	Torne	Oh
18:27:26	dfkt	at least that'sw what the manual says
18:27:26	Torne	your question made it seem like it worked
18:27:38	dfkt	seems jpeg and bmp are the only ones
18:27:44	dfkt	sorry for being facetious :)
18:28:29	dfkt	it's funny that the manual specifically mentions png ion that case, though - http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-iaudiox5/rockbox-buildap2.html#x18-362000B.2
18:28:38	dfkt	but not gif or anything
18:29:19	Torne	presumably that's because there is a common standard of embedding jpg and png
18:29:21	Torne	but not gif
18:29:26	dfkt	ah, true
18:29:29	Torne	i.e. it's a thing files are likely to have
18:29:41	Torne	but it is a little onfusing, yeah
18:31:36	gevaerts	Of course getting rid of the confusion is a problem with a straightforward technical solution :)
18:32:50	Torne	png decoder in core? :)
18:34:44	dfkt	rle compression for bmp isn't supported either, it seems?
18:35:13	Torne	seems largely pointless :p
18:35:31	dfkt	well, it makes the 102kb bmp into 12kb :)
18:35:38	Torne	the point of having bmp is because it doesn't need decoding, not because it's a good format :)
18:35:43	dfkt	hah, right
18:35:56	Torne	if you're going to decode it anyway you can decode from something good
18:36:17	dfkt	heh
18:37:21	dfkt	run-length encoding should be rather easy/efficient to decompress though, right?
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18:55:09	[Saint]	Um.....embedded album art is supported.
18:55:15	[Saint]	dfkt: ^
18:55:34	[Saint]	Pretty sure .PNG is too.
18:56:19	dfkt	i didn't get any png to show up
18:56:41	[Saint]	Ooops ...seems I misread.
18:56:43	dfkt	embedded jpeg seems to only work up to a certain size, larger ones don't show up
18:56:58	dfkt	cover/folder.jpg size doesn't seem to matter
18:57:52	dfkt	well, it matters on the x5, when a 1500x1500 jpeg takes a minute to show up :)
18:59:17	[Saint]	Well, there's no point in art larger than the smallest number of the resolution, really.
18:59:50	dfkt	the point is convenience, hust dragging my stuff over, but yeah, that was jsut an example - for the x5 i convert album art to 160x160
18:59:54	dfkt	*just
19:00
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19:13:38	LkeKe	Hello
19:14:23	LkeKe	My sansa clip + is brick, installed rockbox worked fine, but when i tried another theme it died
19:14:41	LkeKe	doesnt boot at all, not even turn on
19:15:06	LkeKe	wich is weird because was working fine just change the theme and PAM!! not working anymore :(
19:15:35		Quit qnm (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
19:15:35	gevaerts	Have you tried hard-resetting it by holding the power switch for more than 30 seconds?
19:15:36	LkeKe	if somebody have seen anything like it
19:15:56	LkeKe	more than 30 secs? i tried with 20
19:16:04	LkeKe	err like 15
19:16:18		Quit alexbobp (Remote host closed the connection)
19:17:32	AlexP	IT might be even more than 30
19:17:36	AlexP	just keep holding
19:17:39	LkeKe	yea!!
19:17:44	LkeKe	thanks you guys
19:17:47	LkeKe	its back to life
19:17:49	LkeKe	:>
19:17:50	LkeKe	:>
19:17:50	DBUG	Enqueued KICK LkeKe
19:17:50	LkeKe	:>
19:18:03	LkeKe	i was thinking about getting a new 1
19:18:29	LkeKe	how weird this
19:18:44	LkeKe	gevaerts, :)
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19:19:34	funman	hello
19:21:59	LkeKe	this issue was loading the rockbox theme
19:22:06	LkeKe	the others worked fine
19:23:16	funman	when is 3.11 coming ?
19:27:27		Quit qnm (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
19:27:35	funman	3 weeks it seems
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19:51:15	funman	[Saint]: still no nano2g :/
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22:00
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22:13:09	herman_	hi
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22:19:28	herman_	My Sansa Clip+ cannot get past the Database Refresh in the OF. This means I am unable to format and also unable to connect it via usb to correct the problem.
22:20:54	herman_	I tried the disconnection solution from the website but then I receive the "Not enough space for music DB. Please free 90mb" message
22:21:25	herman_	Is my player bricked? Or does anyone have a solution to this?
22:22:15	bertrik	I think you can get it into a special state by holding all buttons during bootup
22:22:30	bertrik	in this state it first asks you to select the language etc, IIRC
22:23:32	bertrik	can't find my clip+ to verify it
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22:24:21	herman_	doesn't work
22:28:00		Quit hiptobecubic (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
22:28:50	funman	your bootloader doest have usb?
22:28:58	funman	try pressing center while plugging it
22:30:15	herman_	I tried this already to force it into msc mode but it doesn't work
22:31:19	funman	anyway for OF problems see sandisk forums
22:31:20	herman_	I am stuck on the "refreshing your media" screen again
22:31:48	herman_	I see. thank you anyway!
22:32:02	funman	[Saint]: do you have a mean to track nano2g packages?
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22:45:15	ej0rge	Hey. I have some m4a files that can be played by linux apps built with ffaac but not on my rockboxed DAPs.
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22:45:45	ej0rge	Any suggestions how to troubleshoot?
22:46:11	fml	JdGordon: hello. Why is the new setting for the root menu needed at all?
22:47:03	n1s	ej0rge: are they rather long?
22:47:12	ej0rge	n1s: ah, lemme look.
22:47:18	ej0rge	how long is rather long?
22:47:32	n1s	that depends :)
22:47:43	ej0rge	midentify says ID_LENGTH=891.51
22:48:07	funman	you can try in a simulator build also
22:48:08	ej0rge	so near 15 minutes
22:48:12	n1s	the longer the file is, the more likely it is to hit the memory limit due to how the container parsing works
22:48:39	n1s	i think most files people had problems with were hours long
22:48:46	ej0rge	hm
22:49:08	ej0rge	what happens is it skips right through the whole album without playing any audio
22:49:38	ej0rge	is there a debug switch to turn on that might be informative?
22:49:54	n1s	the simulator might give osme info if you're lucky
22:50:11	ej0rge	ok. I never used the simulator before but will give it a try later
22:50:32	ej0rge	thanks
22:50:38	n1s	if it's the problem i'm thinking of, some tools can "optimize" the files so they require less memory, i know fb2k can at least
22:50:46	ej0rge	interesting
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22:58:32	saratoga	bluebrother: would it be feasible to have rbutil warn users who are installing builds with no USB support as suggested on the tracker?
23:00
23:02:36	bluebrother	saratoga: while it's technically no problem I'd really like to avoid that. That would only add yet another special case to Rockbox Utility that might need changes to Rockbox Utility at some point.
23:02:50	bluebrother	and I'd really like to get the number of special cases down, not up
23:03:01	saratoga	could we have a general mechanism for showing users notes about what they're installing?
23:03:35	saratoga	basically someway to take a block of text from the webserver and show it to someone when they hit install? might be useful for more then USB
23:03:42	bluebrother	IMO bootloader installation should never change depending on code in Rockbox Utility (i.e. boot order)
23:03:51	bluebrother	yes, that might be useful.
23:04:03	bluebrother	the only problem is how to handle translations in that case ;-)
23:04:26	bluebrother	we could have a release notes document on the webserver that is displayed after installation.
23:04:35	bluebrother	or even included in rockbox.zip
23:05:25	bluebrother	I also want to have some changelog window on Rockbox Utility start, we could have something like that for Rockbox installation (well, release installations) as well
23:05:41	saratoga	if someone wants to change how rbutil handles patching i don't mind so long as they're very careful not to brick anything
23:06:00	saratoga	i'm more interested in stopping the 5 year long stream of people asking why USB doesn't work when they install a build with no USB
23:07:41	bluebrother	well, having some release notes document shown after installation could solve that
23:08:07	Strife89	I think a message upon plugging in the device would help nicely
23:08:15	bluebrother	plugging the device?
23:08:30	bluebrother	how do you want to show that?
23:08:41	Strife89	"Yo, USB isn't ready yet. Be patient and let us finish it first!"
23:08:59	saratoga	i think installing the bootloader might be a better time for that, so that people don't get the message everytime thereafter when they update
23:09:35	funman	let's wait for 3.11, problem solved
23:10:20	bluebrother	we still have the dependency in Rockbox Utility.
23:10:36	gevaerts	funman: you mean usb is stable for everyone?
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23:14:01	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:14:01	*	bluebrother still thinks this dependendy should go away
23:14:29	*	gevaerts agrees
23:15:23	n1s	is it really a dependancy? i thought the only thing changed in the install tool was that it boots rb by default when plugged in
23:16:29	bluebrother	yes, since the code that decides what to boot is compiled into Rockbox Utility
23:17:06	saratoga	since we'll probably enable USB in 3.11 i'm not sure that its really worth changing
23:17:14	n1s	i don't see why that's a big deal, it's not likely to change much
23:17:42	bluebrother	well, once we get yet another AMS target (which might happen) that has unstable USB in the beginning the same thing we have right now starts again
23:18:19	saratoga	yeah but the bigger problem isn't the default behavior, its that people don't know what the behavior should be
23:18:20		Nick Strife1989 is now known as Strife89 (~Strife89@207.144.201.128)
23:18:43	bluebrother	that's the bigger problem from a users / support point of view ;-)
23:18:46	saratoga	if every user knew about the USB status, we could boot rockbox by default even without USB support
23:18:51	n1s	is it so horrible if it boots rb even if the usb support is disabled in it?
23:18:52	saratoga	and not bother with this mess at all
23:19:07	gevaerts	saratoga: so we don't fix it because we will "probably" enable USB in 3.11, and then we enable USB in 3.11 because we didn't fix it?
23:19:10	saratoga	if the user knows we have dual boot, no, in that case it doesn't matter at all
23:20:10	bluebrother	hasn't the boot OF on USB also be a saftey measure in the past, at least for some players?
23:20:14	*	gevaerts hasn't seen any discussion yet about whether USB on AMSv2 is stable enough to enable in a release, so he doen't see how it will probably be enabled
23:20:40	bertrik	could we add some magic to the main rockbox binary so the bootloader can see if it supports USB or not?
23:20:54	bluebrother	isn't that too complicated?
23:21:01	saratoga	wouldn't help since the bootloader doesn't handle dual boot
23:21:02	bluebrother	I see two options:
23:21:09	n1s	bluebrother: the h300 still boots the OF when charger is connected when it's off
23:21:13	bertrik	USB works fine for me on my clip zip by the way
23:21:23	n1s	that thing has been stable is the classification was made
23:21:30	n1s	s/is/since/
23:21:56	bluebrother	(1) change mkamsboot and the dualboot code to be able selecting which boot order to install. Shouldn't be too hard since there are already values for the dualboot code set by mkamsboot, at least as far as I understand
23:22:01	saratoga	i just don't see what the boot decision has to do with anything, its just a bandaid for our crappy documentation :)
23:22:18	bluebrother	(2) download a dualboot.o from the webserver (or embed it in some way in the bootloader file downloaded)
23:23:01	bluebrother	personally I'd prefer (2). We can still have some default dualboot.o in mkamsboot and simply make Rockbox Utility not use it (but download it instead)
23:23:17	bertrik	(0) Do nothing :)
23:23:29	saratoga	3) make boot to rockbox the default for everything, USB or not
23:23:31	bluebrother	(-1) stop using Rockbox
23:23:55	saratoga	i guess 3 and 0 are the same thing
23:24:01	JdGordon	bluebrother: its been a few hours :) can you test the g#120 pretty please?
23:24:02	bluebrother	saratoga: then someone has to fix the h300 bootloader :)
23:24:02	fs-bluebot	Gerrit review #120 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#change,120 : lcd drivers: Convert lcd_[remote_]framebuffer to a pointer by Jonathan Gordon (changes/20/120/9)
23:24:16	saratoga	nice
23:24:27	n1s	bluebrother: yeah
23:25:11	bluebrother	urgh, I don't have the sh1 compiler on this machine :(
23:25:19	saratoga	but yeah i really think giving users some kind of feedback before they install something with no USB support is something that should have happened in the PP days
23:25:43	JdGordon	bluebrother: the forum thread has built zips for you
23:25:51	bluebrother	oh, nice
23:25:55	*	bluebrother heads over to the forums
23:26:20	JdGordon	thanks :)
23:27:07		Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
23:29:22	bluebrother	JdGordon: anything special to look for or only if LCD seems fine?
23:29:38	JdGordon	yeah, if it gets to the menu it works
23:30:58	bluebrother	works.
23:31:40	bluebrother	JdGordon: ^^
23:32:13	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:32:29	bluebrother	hmm, I can't find the commit hash in the gerrit review. Which version did gevaerts build?
23:33:27	bluebrother	that's ondiosp, just for reference
23:33:31	gevaerts	7
23:34:37	JdGordon	bluebrother: thanks
23:34:50	bluebrother	ok, on commnet Gerrit now.
23:35:00	gevaerts	I don't think anything changed between 7 and 9, apart from mr500 and the name
23:35:31	bluebrother	I've mentioned the version in the comment, so people familiar with the code can decide :)
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