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| 00:56:30 | JdGordon | [Saint_]: what do you think about using decimal numbers for viewport percentage sizing? |
| 00:57:09 | JdGordon | so %V(0,0,.5,.75) would give a viewport at (0,0) which is half the width and 3/4 the highet of the display |
| 00:57:44 | JdGordon | I'm not sure it would be easy to allow %V(0,0,50%,75%) unfortunately |
| 00:57:48 | JdGordon | thjough it would be much better |
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| 01:22:07 | JdGordon | actually, no checking for 50% is doable |
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| 01:31:56 | CIA-44 | Commit f31e7a1 in rockbox by Jonathan Gordon: Revert "Fix FS #12606 - next track can cause the screen to be cleared" |
| 01:34:42 | CIA-44 | f31e7a1 build result: All green |
| 01:35:12 | JdGordon | if anyone comes in asking why the file browser is crashing get them to try the current build... apparently that fix wasnt great |
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| 02:00:53 | JdGordon | [Saint_]: kugel: g#184 |
| 02:00:55 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #184 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#change,184 : skin_engine: Support percentages for viewport positioning by Jonathan Gordon (changes/84/184/1) |
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| 04:07:01 | JdGordon | OzzieJacks: ah nice timing |
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| 05:46:03 | [Saint_] | JdGordon: I've really not got a lot of opinion here...until its actually decided what direction we difinitely want to head in for multi-res/rotaion-aware-resizable/etc. skins I'd be hesitant to support work in any direction. |
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| 05:51:37 | JdGordon | :( |
| 05:52:52 | [Saint_] | I just don't want you to waste your time man, that's all. |
| 05:53:44 | [Saint_] | I don't like the idea of you working on <foo>, and then someone else deciding the direction is totally wrong and making the work totally irrelevant. |
| 05:54:26 | JdGordon | meh, thats not an issue, I just want to get something started |
| 05:54:40 | [Saint_] | And as yet, no one seems to have a clear idea what direction to head in to support multi-res/rotation-aware-resizable skins. |
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| 05:55:10 | [Saint_] | Until there is one, I'm just hesitant about encouraging any one particular approach. |
| 05:55:11 | JdGordon | I'm pretty sure this is going to end up being one of those "bits of everyones ideas" things |
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| 09:18:12 | JdGordon | [Saint_]: have you got a drawing or something of where your cabbie viewports are supposed to be on the various targets? |
| 09:19:00 | [Saint_] | I do, yeah. One second. |
| 09:19:07 | [Saint_] | Howcome, btw? |
| 09:19:08 | JdGordon | ignoring images I wonder if we can knock it down to one .wps that can scale the viewports correctly with percentag placement |
| 09:19:25 | [Saint_] | I sincerely doubt that. |
| 09:19:33 | [Saint_] | Its not linear. |
| 09:20:10 | JdGordon | sure it is |
| 09:20:11 | [Saint_] | The viewports are /approximately/ the same on each port...but, far from being scales of each other. |
| 09:20:17 | [Saint_] | very much so in fact. |
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| 09:21:58 | JdGordon | you've got the top part (which is just the banner image), then the AA+info or info viewports which should cover some percentage of the screen (though maybe using negative values is good enough there?) |
| 09:22:08 | JdGordon | and the bottom which is pretty static |
| 09:23:23 | [Saint_] | You would also need to scale the images as well. |
| 09:23:28 | | Quit perrikwp_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 09:23:55 | JdGordon | right, ignoring the images |
| 09:24:26 | [Saint_] | You'll see...for each port to work well, they needed quite a bit of manual tweaking. They're not just enlarged versions of each other (though they're reasonably close). |
| 09:24:56 | [Saint_] | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30204410/viewport%20mockups.zip |
| 09:25:01 | JdGordon | the skins have two problems, viewport placement/sizing and images... we could easily add some tag which ays "for this range of screen sizes append X to all image filename) |
| 09:25:45 | JdGordon | I assume red is touch ares, purpole is images? |
| 09:26:02 | JdGordon | purple* |
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| 09:26:27 | [Saint_] | Nup :) |
| 09:27:01 | [Saint_] | Well, in some cases, yeah, but its not a strict rule. |
| 09:27:06 | lebellium_gs2 | JdGordon :( the previous build works fine for me and the file browser doesn't seem to crash hum |
| 09:27:26 | JdGordon | lebellium_gs2: it crashes on cabbie |
| 09:28:11 | lebellium_gs2 | Ah... Ok so I can still use the build hehe |
| 09:29:20 | [Saint_] | yellow is the textual viewports for the no aa case, magenta (where epresent) is touch areas (but some red areas are both viewports and touch areas of the same exact size also), and the rest are basically only coloured to offer a visual distinction but if you're aware of the port and how the theme looks you can work it out. |
| 09:30:00 | JdGordon | right |
| 09:30:06 | [Saint_] | Keep in mind, I made these for myself, and I'm colour blind. It wasn't eveer supposed to be a key for anyone else to use. |
| 09:30:36 | [Saint_] | I should be able to make that so, though, with rather minimal effort. I just can't do it now. |
| 09:33:04 | [Saint_] | Its not really until one sees that mockup that it becomes obvious that I'm using a metric f**k-tonne of viewports. |
| 09:35:48 | JdGordon | you're using too many :) |
| 09:37:03 | [Saint_] | Nah, I don't think that "one viewport per item, even if static" is "wrong" per se...and think how difficult it'd be for you to work out positioning of individual images in a shared viewport if I didn't :) |
| 09:37:17 | [Saint_] | I had rotation aware positioning in mind from the get go. |
| 09:37:26 | JdGordon | right |
| 09:37:37 | | Quit lebellium_gs2 (Quit: Bye) |
| 09:37:46 | JdGordon | but then you manually place them anyway, and rejected my viewport relative positioning scheme |
| 09:38:15 | * | JdGordon thinks we really are past the point where the skin engine just inst bloody good enough |
| 09:39:04 | [Saint_] | I went with what was currently implemented. Otherwise I would've been constantly redoing my work or sitting around waiting for some implementation to be finished or the bugs to be knocked out of it. |
| 09:39:11 | [Saint_] | I can't build themes with dreams :) |
| 09:40:13 | JdGordon | bugger :p |
| 09:41:32 | JdGordon | any suggestions for the tag for "draw rectangle"? |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:03:30 | [Saint_] | is %dr too obvious? |
| 10:04:22 | [Saint_] | /most/ of our tags seem to at least try and be some form of acronym of their function or description. |
| 10:04:31 | [Saint_] | (with a few glaring exceptions) |
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| 10:09:59 | JdGordon | %dr is what im testing with, yeah |
| 10:10:14 | JdGordon | what are the cabbie backdrop gradient start/end values? |
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| 10:17:18 | Youbi | Hello |
| 10:17:50 | | Quit OzzieJacks (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 10:17:55 | Youbi | sometimes, while listening music, i get sort of jumps forward |
| 10:18:31 | [Saint_] | JdGordon: "Rockbox Grey" CCCCCC and "True Black" 000000 |
| 10:18:31 | | Join evilnick [0] (~evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 10:19:01 | [Saint_] | Youbi: check your filesystem |
| 10:19:11 | Youbi | As if 1 second of the song was eaten by the codec |
| 10:19:29 | Youbi | [Saint_]: i’ll try it |
| 10:22:44 | Youbi | Nothing wrong :/ |
| 10:24:15 | gevaerts | [Saint_]: if we wouldn't do any work unless the direction we want has been decided, rockbox would still only be half-working on the AJB |
| 10:24:32 | [Saint_] | WHat device is this, and, what version of Rockbox are you running? |
| 10:24:34 | gevaerts | The way the direction is decided is by proving that an approach works |
| 10:26:01 | [Saint_] | gevaerts: Oh, sure...but from my standpoint I'm unwilling to say "Yes, its sane to go down this route" when in all likelihood someone else, or multiple someone elses, will likely pull it in a different direction. |
| 10:26:12 | Youbi | I’m running 3.9.1 on a sansa clip+ |
| 10:26:18 | [Saint_] | I just didn't want to personally say "Yes, do that". |
| 10:27:06 | [Saint_] | Youbi: That build is very old. |
| 10:27:14 | [Saint_] | Please try with at least the current release. |
| 10:27:36 | [Saint_] | Preferably with a build from HEAD |
| 10:28:20 | Youbi | Ok, thanks :) |
| 10:29:18 | gevaerts | [Saint_]: with that reasoning nobody would ever offer any opinion at all! |
| 10:30:02 | [Saint_] | Youbi: The upside of installing the current build (not the current release) is that you will have functional USB in Rockbox. |
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| 10:31:07 | Youbi | Oh, great |
| 10:31:15 | [Saint_] | gevaerts: Not necessarily, no. I treat this as different insofar as in some situations, no one knows what to do, so any suggestion is a good one. In this situation there's at least three individuals working on the idea, all with slightly or not so slightly different visipons on how to approach it. |
| 10:31:19 | Youbi | But is there a way to install rockbox without the GUI ? |
| 10:31:51 | [Saint_] | Yes, of course there is. But it is far easier to do so with RBUtil. |
| 10:32:22 | [Saint_] | The manual method involves checking out mkamsboot from the Rockbox Git repository, and patching a firmware manually. |
| 10:32:34 | Youbi | Yes, but get qt and compil with is boring. |
| 10:32:48 | Youbi | Oh god. So KISS |
| 10:34:08 | [Saint_] | RBUtil is specifically designed to "just do everything for you". It is by far the easiest method of installation. |
| 10:35:28 | gevaerts | [Saint_]: uhm, there *are* mkamsboot binaries available for download |
| 10:37:19 | [Saint_] | Well, yeah, sure. Good point. Its still orders of magnitude easier to use RBUtil though. |
| 10:37:51 | Youbi | Yes, but qt is so… lightweigt… |
| 10:38:07 | pixelma | I wouldn't think that for using the Rockbox Utility compiling is involved |
| 10:38:13 | gevaerts | Youbi: you don't actually have to build it yourself, you know |
| 10:38:29 | [Saint_] | pixelma: ? |
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| 10:39:33 | Youbi | gevaerts: yes, unless i wanna use current version |
| 10:39:53 | [Saint_] | Youbi: The point of having a GUI installer is that someone already did the work for you. |
| 10:39:55 | [Saint_] | see: http://www.rockbox.org/download/ |
| 10:40:07 | [Saint_] | you can still install the current version with RBUtil. |
| 10:40:44 | [Saint_] | In fact, you can install the release, the current, and archived daily builds unless I'm mistaken. |
| 10:41:04 | pixelma | or do you mean a current version of the Utility? I'm a bit confused |
| 10:42:01 | [Saint_] | Well, if he does: http://tinyurl.com/rbutil-dev |
| 10:42:47 | gevaerts | [Saint_]: only windows binaries there I believe |
| 10:42:56 | Youbi | I was confused too :/, i’ll use RButil to install last version of rockbox |
| 10:42:59 | Youbi | Sorry |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:26:12 | JdGordon | would anyone mind if i change the default for dircache to be OFF for sim builds? |
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| 11:29:55 | CIA-44 | Commit cde74aa in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: (Author: Jean-Louis Biasini) Fuze+: update minor keymaps mapping for manual consistency/simplicity |
| 11:31:20 | CIA-44 | Commit dcc78cb in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: (Author: Jean-Louis Biasini) Fuze+/calendar's plugin update keymaps and manual |
| 11:31:25 | [Saint_] | JdGordon: I wouldn't see why not, but, what is the reasoning for doing so? |
| 11:32:34 | JdGordon | because it takes about 15s to start debugging once i simlink my music directory into simdisk so its usable |
| 11:32:46 | CIA-44 | cde74aa build result: 4 errors, 1 warnings (Jean-Louis Biasini committed) |
| 11:32:54 | gevaerts | Oh, is that why? |
| 11:33:01 | * | gevaerts doesn't mind |
| 11:34:55 | pamaury | hum, someone should fix warble |
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| 11:35:39 | CIA-44 | dcc78cb build result: 0 errors, 2 warnings (Jean-Louis Biasini committed) |
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| 11:41:19 | evilnick | JdGordon: Why not use a subdirectory of your music directory? |
| 11:41:34 | evilnick | Not that I mind either :) |
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| 12:00 |
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| 12:31:03 | JdGordon | [Saint_]: re: removig CustomWPS, sure, but someone needs to fix the manual |
| 12:31:14 | JdGordon | and personally i think the manual is the wrong place for it anyway |
| 12:32:06 | [Saint_] | JdGordon: I started compiling a list of missing tags that night. And I'll be comparing that with the parser code to make sure I haven't missed any. |
| 12:32:46 | [Saint_] | And, I kinda agree...but the manual is "the official documentation" and there's an air of obligation to update it, while the wiki can go untouched for a long time. |
| 12:33:14 | JdGordon | yes, there should be a seperate proper guide to skinning that doesnt belong in the manual |
| 12:37:14 | JdGordon | seriously, to do it properly it needs a full chapter of explanation, in addition to the existing tag listing |
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| 12:45:29 | JdGordon | Ideally *not* written in TeX because that sucks ass! |
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| 12:47:05 | evilnick | The theme language has evolved to the point (with all the viewports) that to a non-programmer, it's completely opaque and there's a huge barrier to entry to get started on making a nice theme (I think) |
| 12:48:01 | JdGordon | right |
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| 12:48:10 | evilnick | Artist-y people and people with a bent for programming is a pretty small overlap, I'd think :) |
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| 12:53:15 | Zagor | evilnick: time to dig in and make a gui theme editor then. how hard can it be? |
| 12:54:00 | Torne | heh |
| 12:54:27 | * | Torne might suggest a much more verbose and "magic" theme language (e.g. not having to manually specify viewports and the like), and a compiler for it |
| 12:54:50 | CIA-44 | Commit 014a08c in rockbox by Jonathan Gordon: skin_engine: New tag to draw a rectangle (optionally with a gradient) |
| 12:55:10 | Zagor | right, readable keywords instead of tags would probably help a bit |
| 12:55:10 | | Quit [Saint_] (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 12:55:28 | Torne | well, also i'm thinking of things like a hierarchical structure so you can specify layering more sensibly, etc |
| 12:55:46 | Torne | something that requires a "real" parser |
| 12:55:58 | | Join Thra11 [0] (~thrall@87.112.233.69) |
| 12:55:58 | JdGordon | XML! |
| 12:56:10 | Torne | if you like. it's not the worst way. |
| 12:56:16 | Torne | i'd prefer not, but that wouldn' tbe terrible |
| 12:56:59 | JdGordon | doing it in a gui is always going to be better |
| 12:57:14 | Torne | You say that, but people still write HTML in a text editor instead of in a WYSIWYG editor |
| 12:57:15 | evilnick | It would be an improvement to what we have now - from the perspective of someone who wanted to make a theme but was put off by the arcane %sT|50|42|a|b|c style of things :) |
| 12:57:30 | Torne | Named keywords, named attributes, and grouping/nesting, would go a long way |
| 12:57:36 | evilnick | Torne: THIS! |
| 12:57:47 | CIA-44 | 014a08c build result: 132 errors, 0 warnings (Jonathan Gordon committed) |
| 12:57:53 | JdGordon | evilnick: we havnt had that syntax for more than a year! |
| 12:58:10 | JdGordon | arg |
| 12:58:14 | Torne | XML would be one way to do that which a lot of people are already familiar with in concept |
| 12:58:36 | | Quit nick_p (Quit: Leaving) |
| 12:58:40 | Torne | i'd probably do it in YAML :) |
| 12:58:56 | evilnick | It wasn't a serious example, but I bet I can find something similar from CabbieV2, or at least [Saint]'s work on the RaaAa port |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:03 | JdGordon | Torne: I think the bigger issue is the difficulty in seeing the output more than writitng it |
| 13:01:09 | JdGordon | which is why the editor would be better |
| 13:01:25 | Torne | i'm really not sure that's true |
| 13:01:35 | evilnick | I disagree |
| 13:01:36 | Zagor | JdGordon: you have my vote. go go go! :-) |
| 13:01:43 | Torne | couldn't the simulator grow the ability to preview a skin "live"? |
| 13:01:54 | Torne | being edited by an arbitrary external editor |
| 13:02:01 | Torne | and jsut re-parsing and redisplaying it when it changes |
| 13:02:06 | JdGordon | i suppose checkwps *could* |
| 13:02:10 | | Join MethoS- [0] (~clemens@134.102.106.250) |
| 13:02:16 | Zagor | Torne: that's a neat idea |
| 13:02:24 | Torne | well, i say the simulator because then we could reuse the entire existing skin engine |
| 13:02:27 | Torne | 100% compatibility |
| 13:02:29 | evilnick | To me, having more explicit names for the various tags would help the new artist understand what each of them are doing. |
| 13:02:39 | Torne | That on its own might be a great help, even with the current syntax :) |
| 13:02:58 | Torne | it doesn't have the divergence problem that an editor would |
| 13:03:05 | Torne | (and did, in fact) |
| 13:03:06 | JdGordon | sure |
| 13:03:10 | evilnick | Wasn't there some talk a while back about using XML (or YAML!) which would get "compiled" into the proper theme language? |
| 13:03:26 | Torne | probably :) |
| 13:03:32 | evilnick | As like an additional layer so that it'd be human-readable |
| 13:03:39 | Torne | if the input format was sufficiently reasonable you could do the compilation in a plugin, even |
| 13:03:44 | CIA-44 | Commit 182a6c8 in rockbox by Jonathan Gordon: Fix compile errors |
| 13:03:50 | Torne | and then people would be able to load the human readable ones on device. |
| 13:04:19 | Torne | but anyway. changing the format is kinda independant of how to make edit/preview easier |
| 13:04:51 | Torne | i think getting the simulator to be able to reload a being-externally-edited skin "live", and give you parsing errors or output, as appropriate, would be great, and probably not that hard |
| 13:05:20 | Torne | much easier than implementing a working WYSIWYG editor |
| 13:05:39 | evilnick | And it'd stay up-to-date without any additional effort |
| 13:05:43 | Torne | indeeed |
| 13:05:44 | * | evilnick likee |
| 13:05:51 | Torne | plus people can actually play music, change settings, etc |
| 13:05:59 | Torne | to see trivially how the skin changes as state changes |
| 13:06:37 | CIA-44 | 182a6c8 build result: All green |
| 13:06:50 | JdGordon | if you add the bits to get notified if the loaded skin file changes on disk, i'll make the rest work |
| 13:07:02 | * | JdGordon reall needs to get debugging going in the sim again too |
| 13:07:08 | Torne | that sounds reasonable |
| 13:07:17 | Torne | a basic attempt could just poll, which will work on all OSes :p |
| 13:07:27 | Torne | just poll stat() in the background every few seconds |
| 13:07:30 | Torne | not a big deal on a host PC |
| 13:07:41 | Torne | and reload if mtime changes |
| 13:08:00 | Torne | actual file-chagne notification might be nice, but is probably not worth it for this limited case |
| 13:09:49 | JdGordon | step 1, fix the lack of debugging in the sim |
| 13:10:08 | Torne | well, that's also kinda independant, i think |
| 13:10:12 | Torne | it would definitely be nice. |
| 13:19:44 | | Quit evilnick (Quit: Bye) |
| 13:20:04 | | Join evilnick [0] (~evilnick@rockbox/staff/evilnick) |
| 13:21:08 | wodz | Is anyone looking at test builds functionality of our buildfarm? |
| 13:26:42 | JdGordon | [Saint__]: soo.... don't kill me buuuuut..... |
| 13:26:56 | CIA-44 | Commit 5edae54 in rockbox by Jonathan Gordon: skin_engine: Reenable skin debugging in the sim (use −−debugwps) |
| 13:27:31 | [Saint__] | What, why would I? |
| 13:27:54 | [Saint__] | It's been a long time coming :) |
| 13:27:59 | JdGordon | :) because it was a 5min fix that should have been done months ago |
| 13:28:50 | [Saint__] | *cough* year(s)? *cough* |
| 13:29:21 | [Saint__] | Its been broken since before the very first 'bug's skin break :) |
| 13:29:23 | CIA-44 | 5edae54 build result: 23 errors, 3 warnings (Jonathan Gordon committed) |
| 13:29:35 | JdGordon | GROAN |
| 13:29:40 | [Saint__] | *big skin break |
| 13:29:53 | gevaerts | JdGordon: probably not yours |
| 13:30:07 | JdGordon | yay, they arent :) |
| 13:30:24 | gevaerts | cb9bc3b got exactly the same error |
| 13:30:44 | gevaerts | By the way, would that be safe for 3.11? |
| 13:31:00 | JdGordon | sure |
| 13:31:05 | gevaerts | Most people make skins for stable releases I think |
| 13:31:14 | JdGordon | ok, hang on |
| 13:31:54 | CIA-44 | Commit 9837bc3 in rockbox v3.11 by Jonathan Gordon: skin_engine: Reenable skin debugging in the sim (use −−debugwps) |
| 13:31:59 | JdGordon | too easy :) |
| 13:32:12 | gevaerts | Thanks! |
| 13:32:19 | gevaerts | Slasheri: ping |
| 13:32:20 | JdGordon | not like crappy svn! :D |
| 13:32:44 | * | gevaerts wants to disable dircache persistence in 3.11 |
| 13:32:56 | [Saint__] | Now...if only there was an existing 480x800 target... |
| 13:33:07 | JdGordon | use the sdl-app if you can build it |
| 13:35:02 | JdGordon | it would be nice if the sdl-app simulator target built |
| 13:38:12 | * | [Saint__] thinks that sdl apps (in the existing supported raaa resolutions) and device specific sims should be in the build system. |
| 13:38:34 | [Saint__] | Perhaps not built per-commit, but, daily. It'd be nice. |
| 13:39:02 | gevaerts | [Saint__]: for which OS? |
| 13:39:25 | [Saint__] | ALL TEH OSes! |
| 13:39:30 | gevaerts | Also, the sims are in there! |
| 13:39:33 | * | gevaerts hides |
| 13:40:27 | [Saint__] | Are they in there like RaaA is in there? As in built but never distributed? |
| 13:40:36 | gevaerts | yes |
| 13:40:48 | [Saint__] | Stoopid. |
| 13:40:50 | gevaerts | Why? |
| 13:40:51 | [Saint__] | :) |
| 13:41:05 | gevaerts | Distributing them isn't a three minute change |
| 13:41:24 | [Saint__] | Because sims are useful, and were it not for rasher there wouldn't be any. |
| 13:41:34 | [Saint__] | *any available |
| 13:41:59 | rasher | they're built on Linux |
| 13:42:10 | rasher | so not terribly useful for distributing |
| 13:42:17 | gevaerts | Why they should be available ideally and why not having them uploaded is stupid are two rather different questions |
| 13:43:27 | [Saint__] | rasher: there's not /too/ much involved to build on Linux for Windows (wrt sims) |
| 13:44:04 | gevaerts | There is. You're asking for people to install the same mingw environment on rather diverse systems |
| 13:44:17 | rasher | And also compile sdl |
| 13:44:20 | gevaerts | That's *not* trivial |
| 13:44:22 | rasher | which is a bit annoying |
| 13:44:46 | rasher | Could be done on at least "enough" systems that it was there, I bet |
| 13:45:08 | [Saint__] | It only need be one machine, really. Hell, even if they were done weekly it'd be a massive improvement IMO. |
| 13:45:49 | [Saint__] | You can also just grab an SDL binary pre-built, no need to build one (which I'll admit is a pita). |
| 13:46:13 | rasher | You need sdl stuff for building don't you? |
| 13:46:17 | gevaerts | So what you're basically asking for rasher's stuff to be hosted on rockbox.org somewhere? |
| 13:46:30 | gevaerts | s/what// |
| 13:47:25 | [Saint__] | Not /really/, but, close. I'd also like more targets added (namely sdl apparently for the supported raaa resolutions). |
| 13:47:38 | [Saint__] | Then the sims would be "complete". |
| 13:48:29 | [Saint__] | I've noticed people freak out at the warning rasher gives re: his sims, and think their systems will explode or the world will end if they use them...that is, if they find them. |
| 13:49:09 | rasher | I build my sims using the release script, so it's not like it takes a lot of work |
| 13:49:11 | [Saint__] | The warning is justified, but people see it as "unofficial" and not to he trusted. |
| 13:49:15 | [Saint__] | *be |
| 13:49:57 | gevaerts | [Saint__]: to be honest, I trust rasher's sims more than I'd trust sims built by the build system :) |
| 13:49:59 | Torne | rasher: if you're willing to keep that going it seems reasonable that we could host that on rockbox.org, with a notice saying it's best-effort :) |
| 13:50:06 | * | [Saint__] sees an autocomplete error. |
| 13:50:22 | rasher | There's actually no warning on the sims page I think? |
| 13:50:23 | [Saint__] | s/apparently/app/ |
| 13:50:25 | rasher | Just the android builds |
| 13:50:36 | gevaerts | I can't find a warning anyway |
| 13:51:11 | Zagor | I can create an upload account if you think we should host them on rockbox.org instead |
| 13:51:14 | [Saint__] | Hum...my mistake, sorry. I must've confused the android builds. |
| 13:52:58 | [Saint__] | Would it be a massive f**k-tonne of effort to add Windows SDL sims as well? I assume people would also like to "test-drive" raaa as well. |
| 13:53:07 | gevaerts | [Saint__]: yes |
| 13:53:18 | [Saint__] | That's a shame. |
| 13:53:20 | gevaerts | AFAIK that won't even build currently |
| 13:54:05 | rasher | Zagor: if everyone's fine with it, just say the word |
| 13:55:19 | [Saint__] | Now jd has fixed up skin debugging, the sims are also quite useful again for themers too. |
| 13:56:46 | rasher | I'm often tardy about making the release sims though :\ |
| 13:58:58 | gevaerts | rasher: any reason for that apart from not remembering? |
| 13:59:32 | rasher | Not really, no |
| 13:59:51 | rasher | Also it takes effort! Finding the release tag and checking out to it :) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:06 | gevaerts | Well, yes :) |
| 14:00:18 | rasher | But no good reason, no |
| 14:00:25 | gevaerts | But that means adding "poke rasher" to the release checklist would probably help a bit at least |
| 14:00:45 | rasher | heh, yeah |
| 14:01:08 | | Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 14:01:14 | * | gevaerts makes a note of this :) |
| 14:04:08 | [Saint__] | I'm going to be overhauling my home server in a few weeks, and when I do so I'll have ~90% of the previous server as superfluous, and a fat pipe with unlimited data. When the time comes, I'll look into dedicating that to building windows/linux sdl apps, and possibly sharing some of rasher's machine's workload for the sims if necessary. |
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| 14:39:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:00 |
| 15:01:35 | CIA-44 | Commit a4fd5bf in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: imx233: enable charging in bootloader USB mode by including powermgmt |
| 15:01:35 | CIA-44 | Commit 9caffa8 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: imx233/fuze+: rework i2c and fmradio_i2c init |
| 15:04:18 | CIA-44 | 9caffa8 build result: All green |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:00:16 | | Quit bitcraft (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 16:22:34 | Thra11 | When plugged in, what is the significance of the flashing lightning bolt on the battery as opposed to the plug symbol? |
| 16:23:39 | | Join y4n [0] (~y4n@unaffiliated/y4ndexx) |
| 16:26:16 | dfkt | plugged in, and plugged in + charging |
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| 16:36:35 | Thra11 | ok. thought it might be. It used to be different, so for a while I wasn't sure if the icons had changed or my battery had started doing something different |
| 16:38:19 | [Saint] | Are you talking about a particular theme? |
| 16:38:58 | [Saint] | If you're talking about the default, it hasn't changed in...a looooooong time. |
| 16:39:18 | Thra11 | Hmmm. just the theme I use has changed then |
| 16:39:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:40:07 | Thra11 | Which is a bit odd, since when I upgraded rockbox I'm not sure I downloaded a newer version of the theme.. |
| 16:40:28 | [Saint] | What theme is this? |
| 16:41:01 | Thra11 | let me check |
| 16:42:27 | Thra11 | CabbieV3mod I think |
| 16:43:27 | [Saint] | Settings - Theme Settings - Browse Themes |
| 16:43:38 | [Saint] | will tell you definitively. |
| 16:44:11 | Thra11 | nope. just lists all available themes. no indication which one is active |
| 16:44:28 | | Quit mortalis (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 16:44:44 | [Saint] | The active theme should be the one highlighted on entry. |
| 16:45:58 | Thra11 | the one highlighted is the one at the top of the list. but anyway, it's definitely CabbieV3mod |
| 16:47:00 | [Saint] | If you didn't specifically update it, it didn't update. |
| 16:47:10 | Thra11 | True |
| 16:47:44 | [Saint] | RBUtil does nothing automatically (not in this sense, at least). |
| 16:47:59 | [Saint] | So, you probably only just noticed it. |
| 16:48:26 | Thra11 | RBUtil does nothing whatsoever if you don't use it :p |
| 16:49:11 | Thra11 | I guess either I didn't notice it before, or I redownloaded the theme and forgot |
| 16:50:05 | | Join antil33t [0] (~Ahurhurr@101.98.150.103) |
| 16:50:07 | [Saint] | You can easily check when the last theme update was on the website. |
| 16:52:16 | [Saint] | I'm fairly confident cabbiev3 just uses the built in status bar, though, which definitely hasn't changed. |
| 16:54:56 | [Saint] | I don't recall touching it at least, and even if I did it was a couple of years ago. There's a chance cabbiev3 uses its own status bar but I seem to recall it just uses the built in one. |
| 16:57:07 | * | Mir thinks cabbie3 is more popular than rockboxed |
| 16:57:23 | | Join bakdafukup_2002 [0] (~bakdafuku@host-195-123-111-24.midco.net) |
| 16:57:37 | Mir | i could be wrong |
| 16:57:44 | * | Mir lurks off |
| 16:57:55 | * | [Saint] thinks that's a very speculative statement |
| 16:58:33 | Mir | it is |
| 16:58:34 | bakdafukup_2002 | ez peeps... i was wondering if their is anyway to increase the transfer speed im only gettin like 20kb/s when transfering to my device? |
| 16:59:26 | Mir | bakdafukup_2002: is there anything else transfering large amoutns of data on the USB interface? |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:14 | bakdafukup_2002 | not at the same time i dont |
| 17:00:29 | Mir | i found that if i am transfering multiple groups of files like lets say 4 different discogropharies in FLAC my speeds slows down to 56kb/s |
| 17:00:51 | * | gevaerts misses some rather essential information |
| 17:00:54 | Mir | while if i do one i get 5mb/s |
| 17:01:04 | gevaerts | Such as model, OS used, rockbox version |
| 17:01:18 | bakdafukup_2002 | yeah, that was the speed i was getting doing them one by one lol |
| 17:02:04 | bakdafukup_2002 | could it be my ipod? |
| 17:03:01 | [Saint] | It could be a host of things, but you've given approximately no information to discern the problem if any. |
| 17:03:38 | | Quit Thra11 (Quit: kthxbai) |
| 17:06:12 | bakdafukup_2002 | well i told you all i know.. Its transferring slow and i was curious if they're ways of increasing the speed |
| 17:07:30 | | Quit bitcraft (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:08:18 | Mir | and i mentioned it might not be the ipod |
| 17:08:21 | evilnick | You've told us very little! What model of ipod, what OS on your computer, what version of rockbox all can affect the transfer speed |
| 17:08:25 | Mir | it may be some background thing |
| 17:08:51 | * | Mir agrees with evilnick |
| 17:09:33 | bakdafukup_2002 | its a ipod classic 120gb running hte newest version of rockbox and im on windows 7 64bit |
| 17:09:56 | Mir | 3.9, 3.10 or 3.11 or daily builds |
| 17:10:19 | gevaerts | Mir: there are no 3.x releases for the classic |
| 17:10:22 | evilnick | The newest version? What does it say under System > Rockbox Info |
| 17:10:25 | gevaerts | And there's no 3.11 for anything |
| 17:10:54 | gevaerts | Also, I got confused earlier. Did you say it's faster if you only start one single copy operation at a time? |
| 17:11:25 | Mir | thats what happens for me |
| 17:11:28 | bakdafukup_2002 | its the same speed for me if i add one folder at a time or many |
| 17:12:21 | evilnick | If you start one copy operation of one artist folder (for example) and then another copy operation, and then another, then each copy operation can only use a fraction of the 5MB/s speed |
| 17:12:24 | bakdafukup_2002 | the version is r31516-120101 |
| 17:12:33 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@nl118-175-223.student.uu.se) |
| 17:12:37 | gevaerts | That's ages old, not current |
| 17:12:39 | | Quit n1s (Changing host) |
| 17:12:39 | | Join n1s [0] (~n1s@rockbox/developer/n1s) |
| 17:12:42 | bakdafukup_2002 | oh |
| 17:13:18 | bakdafukup_2002 | well i had to use emcore to be able load it on the classic |
| 17:14:00 | bakdafukup_2002 | i just used what they told me to download, figured it was the newest version.... can i download the newest version and just add it? |
| 17:14:28 | | Join mshathlonxp [0] (msh@84.237.141.70) |
| 17:15:33 | [Saint] | Of course, however, if you read while you were installing it you would know that USB on the Classic is very highly sub-optimal. |
| 17:15:44 | [Saint] | Its a known issue. |
| 17:17:04 | [Saint] | It doesn't even mount on some operating systems. Basically, be thankful it does transfer at all. |
| 17:17:15 | Mir | is that release december 1st 2001? |
| 17:17:33 | gevaerts | Mir: huh? |
| 17:17:35 | evilnick | Mir: Probably 2012-01-01 |
| 17:17:42 | Mir | whew |
| 17:17:42 | [Saint] | Mir.....seriously? |
| 17:17:50 | [Saint] | Think dude, think. |
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| 17:18:02 | Mir | i did |
| 17:18:02 | evilnick | Or it could have been before the iPod Classic was designed :) |
| 17:18:08 | Mir | usualy month day year |
| 17:18:25 | [Saint] | Obviously, as that's perfectly sane, right? ;) |
| 17:18:51 | [Saint] | We always have ports out before the product its designed for is even invented. |
| 17:18:59 | Mir | also i only recently rolled out of bed onto the keyboard so i am not fully awake |
| 17:19:02 | [Saint] | We're really timelords. |
| 17:19:09 | Mir | yea |
| 17:19:18 | Mir | time is only a wibbly wobbly thing |
| 17:19:22 | scorche|sh | evilnick: the first ipod was only 2 or so months old at that time |
| 17:19:28 | | Quit n1s (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 17:19:31 | bakdafukup_2002 | alright guys.... cheers for the help... |
| 17:19:41 | evilnick | scorche|sh: Can't get much more classic than the original... |
| 17:20:39 | Mir | on the Fuze to get the rockbox usb connectivity do i have to wait until 3.11 comes out or is it avalible on the daily builds |
| 17:21:34 | [Saint] | You could always try and see, no? |
| 17:22:06 | Mir | i'd rather not kill the fuze like i did the clipv2 |
| 17:22:13 | Mir | which didnt brick |
| 17:22:16 | Mir | it died |
| 17:22:56 | [Saint] | Ok, then don't update ever and live in fear for the rest of your life. Its up to you. ;) |
| 17:23:21 | Mir | hehe |
| 17:23:45 | Mir | the reason i ask is on the wiki it says something about upgrading to the "current build" |
| 17:24:14 | [Saint] | Right, so, you think its a fallacy there just to trick you? |
| 17:24:17 | Mir | i just needed some claification on what "current build" is |
| 17:24:26 | Mir | no |
| 17:24:35 | gevaerts | Mir: how long have you been in this channel now? |
| 17:24:39 | evilnick | It's a build that looks a little like a raisin |
| 17:24:43 | [Saint] | Current build == (wait for it...) current build, unsurprisingly. |
| 17:25:03 | Mir | :| |
| 17:25:11 | scorche|sh | i thought it was the build for devices that want to charge faster |
| 17:25:24 | Mir | so that means its still the 3.10 build which has no usb connectivity |
| 17:25:31 | [Saint] | Nah, that's the high-current build. |
| 17:25:36 | [Saint] | :) |
| 17:25:42 | gevaerts | Mir: a current build is a build of current source code |
| 17:25:43 | Mir | ok |
| 17:26:02 | [Saint] | Mir: really? You're actually serious aren't you? |
| 17:26:05 | | Quit bakdafukup_2002 (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:26:09 | Mir | yes |
| 17:26:21 | Mir | i am serious |
| 17:26:54 | [Saint] | We have a distinction between release and current for a reason. Current is always a later version than the release. |
| 17:27:40 | Mir | where does the daily build fit in? |
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| 17:28:16 | gevaerts | That's basically a current build from at most one day old |
| 17:28:26 | Mir | ok |
| 17:28:28 | [Saint] | Release can be anywhere up to 4 months old, current can be updated several times per day, daily (unsurprisingly) is built once daily, to clarify. |
| 17:28:51 | Mir | thats good to know |
| 17:28:58 | Mir | thank you for clarifying |
| 17:29:22 | [Saint] | Is the wording non-obvious? Could we improve on it somehow? |
| 17:29:31 | Mir | no |
| 17:29:34 | [Saint] | (Serious question) |
| 17:29:47 | Zagor | I guess "current" could be called "latest" |
| 17:31:01 | gevaerts | I think changing that is going to be rather difficult |
| 17:31:04 | Mir | its just that "current" is much harder to find and the fact that daily is basicly == to current although it may be a few days older than 'current build' from what i understand you are telling me |
| 17:31:21 | Mir | rather not have it changed for one person |
| 17:31:22 | * | [Saint] votes for "Super-Happy-Fun-Time-Mega-Surprize Build" |
| 17:31:31 | gevaerts | I for one wouldn't know where to find the daily builds |
| 17:31:33 | Mir | just a definition somewhere would be nice |
| 17:31:53 | Mir | thats another issue i had |
| 17:32:23 | [Saint] | Well, this is also why there's date stamps. |
| 17:32:36 | | Part Zagor |
| 17:32:42 | Mir | the wiki would not let me register so i could post some hardware for donation |
| 17:33:13 | Mir | kept saying my username was innappropriate |
| 17:33:32 | * | Mir doesnt know how Mir is an inappropriate username |
| 17:33:57 | gevaerts | The instructions there do mention us wanting real names I think |
| 17:34:08 | Mir | ahh |
| 17:35:35 | Mir | that clarifies that. |
| 17:35:37 | Mir | thank you |
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| 17:35:41 | * | Mir lurks off to work |
| 17:35:48 | [Saint] | Reading instruction usually does. |
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| 18:02:01 | jlbiasini | pamaury: thanks for the push, are you planning some more modification on the bootloader soon? Or can I update the bootloader on the wiki page now? |
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| 18:07:19 | pamaury | You should probably update it, charging in the bootloader is really useful |
| 18:07:51 | jlbiasini | ok |
| 18:08:51 | jlbiasini | We could test it like for a week and then send it on the server in order to have rockboxutility also handling it |
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| 18:10:49 | pamaury | yeah, we will need to do a bootloader at some point |
| 18:11:27 | pamaury | I have a question regarding g#173 : where did you get the image ? |
| 18:11:29 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #173 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#change,173 : Fuze+ simulator: update image with keys indication by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/73/173/1) |
| 18:12:44 | jlbiasini | also did you saw that? FS #12592 are you planning to work on it or can I start with it? |
| 18:12:44 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12592 mkimxboot calls exit() on errors (bugs, new) |
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| 18:14:57 | jlbiasini | pamaury: the image is the one I made for the manual |
| 18:15:09 | jlbiasini | I just added number on it |
| 18:16:34 | jlbiasini | I made it from scratch in inkscape so no copyright issue here if this is your concern |
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| 18:21:31 | jlbiasini | pamaury: also regarding backlight and button issue, this one could be related: FS #12594 |
| 18:21:31 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12594 [Fuze+] Unexpected behavior of touchpad when backlight is off (bugs, new) |
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| 18:37:31 | jlbiasini | pamaury: wiki updated |
| 18:37:39 | pamaury | ok thanks |
| 18:38:22 | jlbiasini | so are you planning something on FS #12592 |
| 18:38:22 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12592 mkimxboot calls exit() on errors (bugs, new) |
| 18:38:28 | jlbiasini | ? |
| 18:38:35 | pamaury | by the way, I will commit an update that add an ADC channel of which the value can be read in the debug menu, if you can have a look at it regularly and tell me if the value is really different from VddIO that would be nice |
| 18:38:46 | pamaury | jlbiasini: it's already fixed I think |
| 18:38:55 | jlbiasini | ah ok |
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| 18:39:38 | pamaury | I'll ask bluebrother but I fixed all calls to exit for really unlikely errors |
| 18:40:12 | jlbiasini | pamaury: I don't understand what do I could test? |
| 18:40:33 | jlbiasini | wich value? |
| 18:40:47 | jlbiasini | battery power? |
| 18:40:57 | pamaury | go into debug menu > HW Info, third screen: there a few values (battery, vddio, vdd5v) |
| 18:42:14 | pamaury | I will add one called "channel 2". The OF reads it but I'm unable to determine what it does with it, so I'm trying to understand its meaning but I've never found a situation where it's mostly different from vddio |
| 18:42:16 | jlbiasini | ah ok so I'll wait your commit, update rockbox and go to this screen to compare the values |
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| 18:48:44 | jlbiasini | pamaury: is your last push supposed to solve radio bug? |
| 18:49:00 | jlbiasini | because on my device it won't |
| 18:49:05 | pamaury | no, it's just code simplification |
| 18:49:40 | CIA-44 | Commit e07b22f in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: fuze+: add unknown channel to debug menu |
| 18:50:08 | pamaury | I'm now pretty convinced that the radio problem happen when some i2c transfers with the tuner chip fail |
| 18:50:23 | pamaury | then the code never manages to read some registers again and get stuck in a loop |
| 18:51:03 | jlbiasini | backlight seems to confuse the touchpad on other occasion to FS #12594 |
| 18:51:03 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12594 [Fuze+] Unexpected behavior of touchpad when backlight is off (bugs, new) |
| 18:51:33 | pamaury | yes, it creates some interferences it seems. The touchpad is also i2c driver |
| 18:51:34 | | Quit MethoS- (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 18:51:35 | pamaury | *driven |
| 18:52:04 | CIA-44 | e07b22f build result: All green |
| 18:52:09 | jlbiasini | I alos notice that somatime the touchpad run crazy |
| 18:52:15 | pamaury | yeah, me too |
| 18:52:41 | jlbiasini | ok I'll test the new value |
| 18:53:07 | | Quit remlap1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 18:53:58 | pamaury | I also noticed something which could explain some weird behaviours: VddIO is usually 3.6V (you can see the value in the debug menu, it's in mV). But sometimes, the OF bootloader will set it to 3.0V only and then the device runs strangely |
| 18:54:10 | pamaury | I need to reverse more code to understand this behaviour |
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| 18:56:40 | jlbiasini | pamaury: channel 2 *SEEMS* to be a little lower than vddIO like 10 |
| 18:57:45 | jlbiasini | jep it's definitly a little lower |
| 18:58:26 | pamaury | 10 is completely negligeable, it's within measurement error |
| 18:58:44 | pamaury | if you see a different greater than 100, then it matters |
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| 18:59:02 | jlbiasini | vddIO is about 3670 and channel 2 about 3650 |
| 18:59:11 | pamaury | same thing for me |
| 18:59:23 | pamaury | except when VddIO is 3000 but I think it's not normal |
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| 20:15:15 | bertrik | pamaury, any luck with the fuze+ fmradio stuff yet? |
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| 20:45:42 | bertrik | pamaury, candidates for the unknown adc channel could be battery temperature, charge current, or battery current |
| 20:48:09 | saratoga | battery current hsould be easy to test, just change the screen brightness |
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| 21:03:08 | jlbiasini | saratoga: pamaury: so it's not battery current: i set backlight to 5 and still had the same value |
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| 21:04:46 | bertrik | jlbiasini, does it change at all? |
| 21:06:29 | saratoga | put it in the freezer and see if its a thermistor |
| 21:07:25 | bertrik | but don't actually freeze it |
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| 21:30:55 | jlbiasini | the fact is that the value is pretty close to another one that is in mV |
| 21:31:31 | jlbiasini | ~3600 |
| 21:32:09 | jlbiasini | saratoga: bertrik: so that might not be a temperature |
| 21:35:51 | jlbiasini | and no it doesn't seems to change. |
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| 21:47:39 | bluebrother | jlbiasini: about your recent Rockbox Utility question: something I'd like to see implemented is a changelog dialog that can be used to (a) show the changes between Rockbox Utility releases and (b) the changes between Rockbox releases |
| 21:48:22 | bluebrother | for that a simple text input is to be used. The simplest case would be showing a plain text without any formatting |
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| 21:48:54 | bluebrother | (i.e. similar to the display of the speex license) |
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| 21:58:28 | jlbiasini | bluebrother: ok I will have a look at it |
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| 22:23:02 | bertrik | jlbiasini, do you know what the other ADC voltage channel is? |
| 22:23:50 | bertrik | I think I've seen on some sansas that there are two channels connected to the battery voltage, only during charging I see a difference |
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| 23:03:42 | jlbiasini | bertrik: you should talk with pamaury about it. I was just doing some test for him. |
| 23:04:36 | jlbiasini | it seems the value is around 3600 but that sometime the OF set it 3000 |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).