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#rockbox log for 2012-04-09

00:00:15KiwiCamlebellium: I note that if you comment out everything except for lines 17,18 & 29 %Vi(X,0,11,95,74,-)& %Vi(Z,0,11,95,-,-) & %?mp<%VI(Z)|%VI(X)> it still crashes.
00:02:20 Quit evilnick (Quit: Bye)
00:02:54KiwiCamThe %VI(Z) & %VI(x) are uppercase. Are they supposed to be?
00:03:12KiwiCamThat still doesn't stop it crashing mind you.
00:04:06 Join liar [0] (
00:06:43[Saint]KiwiCam: You ask some funny questions sometimes ;)
00:06:54[Saint]Yes, yes...that syntax is fine.
00:09:23[Saint]lebellium: just a suggestion, and JdGordon is probably going to have heart attack when he reads this (as I never used to agree), but you might want to start switching to verbose identifiers.
00:09:33KiwiCamAnd then if you uncomment everything except for those lines and lines 32 & 33 (miniplayer) it stops crashing
00:10:21KiwiCamAnd USB works on the Sim.
00:10:50[Saint]KiwiCam: could you be a dear and pastebin the full .sbs for me please?
00:11:11[Saint]c/p on my phone is a nightmare, especially whilst walking ;)
00:13:31KiwiCam I'm thinking that perhaps if he was more specific about the Width & Height, it might works. lebellium: How high is the Miniplayer supposed to be?
00:14:27[Saint]thank-you KiwiCam
00:14:45KiwiCamDe Nada.
00:15:29[Saint]I assume the commented lines are your doing?
00:21:45KiwiCamAs in, I commented out #%Vi(R,0,11,95,74,-)#%Vi(S,0,11,95,-,-)#%?mp<%VI(R)|%VI(S)>
00:21:49 Join Claudia2000 [0] (
00:21:49 Quit Claudia2000 (Client Quit)
00:21:56[Saint]Awwwwww man...I shouldn't have looked.
00:22:08[Saint]the desire to fix other people's code is too strong in me.
00:22:24[Saint]there's some pretty weird things going on in this theme.
00:23:03[Saint]"%?mp<|%s%?it<%it|%fn> %?ia<-|> %ia|...." is an amusing example.
00:23:06 Quit leavittx (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:23:11KiwiCamI wouldn't even contemplate doing it on a phone. So STOP IT!
00:24:35[Saint]"check for album artist presence to display a dash, but do no checking for its presence to display the actual tags, plus, include spaces unconditionally that will disrupt the offset if desired data isn't present"
00:25:24 Quit liar (Read error: Connection timed out)
00:27:01KiwiCam[Saint]: Beware. The pastie I sent has an R & S insteas of an Z & X
00:32:02KiwiCamIf the %Vi's are Z & X shouldn't the Miniplay %Vl (that's an L) be Z or X as well, as isn't that what lebellium wants' to be seen if a track is playing?
00:34:44[Saint]KiwiCam: No.
00:35:25[Saint]It could be handled a lot better, but I can see why its handled the way it is.
00:35:36KiwiCam that's lebellium's original. I'm not familiar with %Vi
00:36:08[Saint]Ok, thanks.
00:36:14[Saint]I'll work from his original.
00:43:15 Quit bertrik (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:56:08 Quit LambdaCalculus37 (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
00:57:44saratogahuh no now that i look at it again that commit looks fine
00:58:11*pamaury is completly lost on the Zen X-Fi3 OF makes no sense :(
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01:15:37 Quit ender` (Quit: Only thing made by Apple that wouldn't suck would be iVacuum.)
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01:16:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:25:56[Saint]KiwiCam: ^
01:26:16[Saint](nothing against the style it was in previously, but, it made me want to cry ;))
01:44:55 Join factor [0] (
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01:55:07KiwiCam[Saint]: Great. I was doing the same, but it takes me longer. I've been trying to combine as many of the %mp's as possible. I learnt about %Vi's today :)
01:56:25KiwiCamIt should be possible to combine the Volume/UI & %mp's on one line shouldn't it?
01:56:46KiwiCamIt's tidier with them separate though.
01:58:17 Quit RansomTime (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
01:58:18lebelliumsorry Kiwican and [Saint], I was away and just came back after drinking. I guess it's better for me to read tomorrow. BTW, [Saint] does your SBS version solve any issue or is it just a "style" matter ?
01:58:49KiwiCamA Kiwican you know ;)
01:59:06 Quit scorche (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:59:47 Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
02:03:09lebelliumwell definitely I don't understand your conversation
02:03:33lebelliumI'll read that tomorrow but that's nice to try to make my code better ahaha :)
02:05:06KiwiCam[Saint]: That's still crashing my Sim :(
02:05:46[Saint]KiwiCam: Yeah, I expected as much. It was purely style correction.
02:06:04[Saint]Does it give any output when it crashes?
02:06:45KiwiCamfont id must be >= 2Segmentation fault
02:07:07KiwiCamI'll double-check...
02:10:06KiwiCamStill crashing... if I start the Sim, it loads leb's theme, if I then change to Clocklockzip I get "font id 544 already being used". Mine, get no errors, but changing back to Leb's with either crashes the Sim.
02:11:24KiwiCamI was having some success with combining the %mv/%mp & the VI's. It wasn't crashing. But, I binned that when I saw your fix :(
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02:13:55KiwiCamI have a feeling that the trouble is coming from the Conditional coding (not that I really have a clue) as I note that I've been having to mix around conditionals a lot to get them to play nicely together. Again: I'm really bad at this stuff, but when I know something should work and it isn't....
02:15:27 Quit perrikwp (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
02:16:39 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 12.0/20120403211507])
02:23:25[Saint]KiwiCam: is a little cleaner
02:23:30saratogaif i'm bisecting a bug, can i trust the git build dates to actually be in sequential order, or will some of the dates be out of order because people committed them at a different time then they pushed them?
02:23:30 Join WilliamC [0] (~William@
02:23:51WilliamCI noticed that the date and time are off on my Sansa ClipZip and I have no clue how to fix it
02:24:09[Saint]saratoga: I'd say it wouldn't be wize to trust the dates, no.
02:25:52KiwiCamWilliamC: Settings/Time&Date/SetTime&Date Up & Down changes/left & right moves between HH MM etc Select to confirm.
02:26:17[Saint]WilliamC: We do have a very fine manual ;)
02:26:30WilliamCWhat's a manual?
02:26:38MCraseDoes anyone know at what dB level the sound could be damaging to your ears? I always keep mine at -15.
02:26:49KiwiCamHe's a character n Faulty Towers ;)
02:27:35[Saint]saratoga: I have noticed that the order of the commits on the main page is correct, insofar as the order they were committed, but the dates often aren't sequential.
02:28:00[Saint]Torne needs to work out his magic script to give us nice sequential commit IDs ;)
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02:28:40[Saint]MCrase: that's entirely dependant on your physiology.
02:29:18[Saint]-15 might be excruciatingly loud for one person, and cause irreparable harm, whereas its fine for you.
02:30:41[Saint]there's no "you'll damage your hearing past <foo> value. And even if there were, it wouldn't be consistent across all devices, and even if it were, there is a metric crap-ton of variables that can affect it.
02:32:04[Saint]KiwiCam: that last past of mine is the best I am able to do re: condensing/merging conditional statements.
02:32:24[Saint]its still not really pretty, but, its better.
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02:41:47KiwiCamPersonally, I don't see the need for a miniplayer & volume in an .sbs anyway. It looks nice, but why bother when you're only in there for a few seconds anyway.
02:42:30KiwiCamIt'd still be nice to know why it won't work though.
02:42:40saratogatheres nothing that looks like it would impact battery on amsv1 committed after feb13, so i wonder about those results posted on the forums
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03:12:42 Quit mc2739 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
03:16:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:18:59[Saint]KiwiCam: regarding the miniplayer and volume, I think you're forgetting about touchscreen targets and the fact that playback can be controlled entirely from the .sbs, so one needn't actually enter the .wps at all (except for the fact that "Resume Playback" or "Play" automatically kicks you into the Now Playing screen)
03:19:10 Quit Riviera (Excess Flood)
03:19:46KiwiCamI never knew that.
03:20:15[Saint]Were it not for the assumption the skin engine makes that playback can only be controlled in the .wps (it used to be this way, even on touchscreen targets), and the fact that you can't seek (yet) in the .sbs, a touchscreen theme could consist entirely of just an .sbs
03:20:25KiwiCamBut, with a non touchscreen, it's just there for looks...
03:20:31 Join Riviera [0] (~Riviera@
03:21:30[Saint]It also has some use, for example, there's no need to go to the .wps to check the current/next track info, etc.
03:22:07[Saint]having track info viewable from all screens (all screens that can make use of an .sbs, rather) is actually very handy.
03:22:29saratogawhats the correct way to check out an old revision using git?
03:22:46saratogado i want to create a completely different repo, or a branch or something else?
03:22:51saratogathe wiki doesn't seem to mention this
03:23:41KiwiCamFor sure. I can see that is is very handy. But, probably just not for my use. I can't see the point in being in the menu area very long, especially for a Clip. I can see why it's there though.
03:26:05[Saint]saratoga: can't you just do "git checkout <enough_commit_ID_to_make_it_unique>"?
03:26:25saratogado i do that in my existing check out, or do i create a new one
03:27:21[Saint]that's entirely up to you, both would work.
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03:59:21KiwiCamI'm getting this error when using FF & RW in a theme "rebuffer_handle(): space is needed" Is there anything I can do about it?
04:12:18[Saint]KiwiCam: my assumption is that you're using a phenomenal amount of buffer on a low memory target, and it can't keep enough in buffer to be able to seek.
04:12:58[Saint]So, pretty much, the choices are: 1 - Reduce theme resources, 2 - Give up on being able to seek
04:13:49[Saint](and 3 - add more RAM to your target)
04:17:01 Quit scorche (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:17:01KiwiCamIt's a heavy theme (ALiEnZIP). Just trying to tweak some lines. Strangely, I don't get that message with the Clip+ Sim and the same code.
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04:18:46[Saint]KiwiCam: I'm not sure how accurately the sims reproduce buffer/playback behaviour
04:19:59KiwiCamDarn. I'm going to have to buy a Zip now =[
04:20:18[Saint]also "tweaking a few lines" is pretty unlikely to claim back any decent amount of space.
04:21:09[Saint]what you'd really need to do is drop some of the images.
04:22:56[Saint] keep in mind that, although "eye-candy" themes are nice, its pretty ridiculous if they're so big that they hamper playback, the primary function of the device.
04:22:57KiwiCamActually. I can do that with the clip. One of the bitmaps is just a straight port and it's 128 wide. I can certainly cut that down to 96 wide.
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04:44:34KiwiCamgevaerts: Could you please hide my ALiEn ZIP theme? I've somehow changed something in my last update and I can't figure out what's gone wrong.
04:44:58KiwiCamOr, anyone else, if poss.
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05:11:47KiwiCamCould someone please hide the ALiEn theme? I have to go out, and I'd appreciate it if no one was able to download it for now.
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05:16:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:01:42 Part Shovelware
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07:16:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:25:17KiwiCamgevaerts: Nevermind. Fixed now. Thanks.
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10:29:17since96can i take a screenshot with rockbox on my sansa clip+ ?
10:29:42 Join MCrase_ [0] (
10:30:28bluebrothersince96: yes.
10:30:46since96how ?
10:31:44bluebrotheryou can select "Screenshot" in the Debug menu. If you select that every USB connection will then make a screenshot instead of connecting to USB. Select the menu entry again to disable it.
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10:32:13bluebrotheror you can simply use the Simulator, in which you can take a screenshot by pressing a button (IIRC F5)
10:32:34bluebrotherdepending on your problem the simulator should be simpler to use :)
10:33:08bluebrotherhmm, reminds me: why doesn't the sim save screenshots as png? Would that be useful (for like the theme site, so users don't need to convert the screenshots manually)?
10:33:52 Quit since96 (Quit: ChatZilla [SeaMonkey 2.8/20120312220748])
10:38:55[Saint]bluebrother: I'd say .png would be of more use, yes.
10:40:20bluebrotherI _guess_ that the drawback would be the sim to require SDL_image as additional dependency
10:41:11bluebrotherbut we could convert the player picture (i.e. the background of the sim) to png as well. That's rather easy, I did look into that long ago :)
10:41:22bluebrotherso I guess that saving as png shouldn't be much harder
10:45:47bertrikI think I found the issue with the si470x tuner not powering down correctly
10:46:52bluebrotherskipping 3.11.1 is't that bad −− the version number is somewhat confusing anyway :)
10:47:17*bluebrother waits for people to call 3.11.2 "3.1.12" and "" :P
10:53:56*bertrik spoke too soon
10:55:35bertrikit seems at some point some initialisation sequences were switched around, they only happen in the si4700_sleep now, but it's not called on startup
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10:56:26bertrikalso there is an old remainder of an expectation that RADIO_SLEEP can have a special argument of 2
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11:29:58bertrikpamaury, what does B029 do?
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12:57:03pamaurybertrik: on which target ?
12:57:17bertrikthe fuze+
12:57:38bertrikdoes it really power down the tuner completely?
12:58:23pamaurysee there is a list of the pins. That's my guess but I can't be sure of course.
12:58:41pamauryare you working on the fuze+ radio ?
12:59:22bertrikno, looking into a radio-related power drain
12:59:43bertriktuner_power seems to have very different meanings for different targets
12:59:44pamauryhmm, perhaps of radio pause ?
13:00:40bertrikno, the problem appears to be that the tuner doesn't properly start up (oscillator is not started) which causes it to hang in a half-powered up state which drains current unnecessarily
13:01:01pamauryon which device ?
13:01:29bertrikany device which has the si4700 and which requires the use of the si4700 internal oscillator
13:01:42bertrik(si4700 or compatible)
13:01:44pamauryI think we did not change the internal oscillator start up code.
13:01:56bertrikit's moved to si4700_sleep now
13:02:12pamauryright, but the timing are the same
13:02:19bertrikand that is not called at powerup of the DAP
13:02:33pamauryit's called when necessary only
13:02:52bertrikbut not in all cases it's necessary
13:03:05bertrikand the way it's done now, adds extra delay to mute/unmute
13:03:11pamauryit is noty when the radio is not playing obviouslyu
13:03:32pamauryI don't think so, mute doesn't power down the device
13:03:56*pamaury looks at the code
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13:05:01pamaurythe only case where the oscillator is powered down is on tuner_set(TUNER_SLEEP, 1)
13:05:59pamauryis there something special to do to power down the oscillator by the way ?
13:07:35bertrikI think you can do that, but the data sheet is a bit unclear about the internal oscillator
13:07:46pamauryyes unfortunately
13:08:00pamauryI can tell you for sure that the fuze+ OF does that
13:08:43pamaurywith one exception: it kind of explicitely stop the oscillator
13:11:01pamauryit writes 0 to TEST1 if I read correctly, perhaps it is needed
13:11:45bertrikmaybe it saves a tiny bit of current
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13:14:56bertrikI don't see the need to completely hard-power down the tuner to be honest. It uses max 12 uA when soft-powered down.
13:16:28pamaurythis was just to keep the structure of the old driver which used tuner_power even on mute. But I see no objection to power once and then soft-power
13:16:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:18:43pamauryif you modify the code, let me know to test it
13:20:12bertrikBTW, I think the old mechanism/hack using tuner_set(RADIO_SLEEP, 2) can be removed now, right?
13:20:30pamauryI completely agree with that
13:23:19pamauryBy the way, what do you want to do about the zen x-fi ?
13:26:09 Quit NotJimCarrey (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
13:26:26bertrikI won't mind working on the tuner in that
13:27:27CIA-44Commit 3cb0d71 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: si470x tuner: remove obsolete handling of special value 2 for RADIO_SLEEP
13:29:55 Quit robin0800 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
13:30:23CIA-443cb0d71 build result: All green
13:31:06pamauryOk, I'll send it to you when I have fix this damn power management bug. I hope you don't mind if the interface is not great, last time I tried everything was in grid mode for some reason
13:32:47bertrikI can look at various other stuff too
13:35:05pamaurywhat is basically left is: the accelerometer, finish the lcd (lcd enable mainly), the speaker and if you are really motivated there is the TV out
13:35:10pamauryand the tuner of course
13:36:33pamauryI have the zen x-fi3 with the same tuner, a speaker and tv out too so I will be able to test and develop too
13:36:42bertrikand bugs in other drivers :) and frivolous stuff like inverse colour, turning the lcd upside down :D
13:38:08pamauryfortunately I found some datasheet which applies to the lcd controller so it will easy to implement all this useless stuff :)
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13:40:56pamauryomfg I was right!! Those guys at freescal/creative are just completely dumb
13:42:27bertrikoh? :)
13:42:58pamauryI was fighting the partition table of the zen-xfi3 because some entry of the table had a small offset (3 sectors)
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13:44:47pamaurySo I basically spent a whole day reversing the code which dealt with partitions in the OF until I realized some crazy evidence: all LBA were right shifted 2 bits, so partition table LBAs effectively need to be taken modulo 4
13:45:22pamaurySo why on earth did they use an offset which was not a multiple of 4 on the device?!
13:46:10pamauryI wouldn't be surprized if they did not even realize it
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13:54:00bertrikwell sandisk did weird stuff too, re-using display data lines to read buttons, making things a lot more complicated than needed
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13:54:53pamaurysure, freescale uses a 512-byte logical block for the first partition table and a 2048-byte one for the extended one :)
13:55:24pamauryperhaps they bet on how long it will take for us to figure out ;)
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18:10:40saratogabertrik: FWIW, the feb 13 build does not have the battery life issue on the fuzev1
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18:29:05lorenzo92kugel: uhm I don't know what happened yesterday, I did git commit −− it correct?
18:29:16enthdegreeok thanks!
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18:33:18kugelplorenzo92: perhaps you forgot to add your changes, using git add or git commit -a −−amend?
18:33:40lorenzo92uhm I'll check...
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18:35:49lorenzo92okay I did the git commit -a −−amend, can I test the push to gerrit? Is it a problem if continuing pushin new patchsets? :)
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18:37:55lorenzo92kugelp: pff git diff HEAD returns 0 bytes...:S
18:38:22kugeljust push to Gerrit
18:39:01kugel0 bytes is good _after_ commit
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18:52:21lorenzo92kugel. ookay, now seems ok .9
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19:04:23bluebrotherAny thoughts on the file attributes shown?
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19:05:35bluebrotherthinking about it, time and date could be merged into one entry, and the date should / could use ISO-8601 format
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19:21:55timotimoi've borked my clipzip rockbox installation >_>
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19:28:24n1sbluebrother: does rockbox honour the read only attr?
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19:28:41bluebrothern1s: no idea, but I would expect it to do that when deleting files
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19:29:27bluebrotherok, it doesn't.
19:29:49bluebrotherit just did happily delete a file marked as read only.
19:31:24n1sah, anyway i don't think the other attrs are commonly used by users (except dir but ell)
19:32:10bluebrotherI wouldn't consider that used by the "user" :)
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19:32:22bluebrothermore by the filesystem driver itself
19:32:43bluebrotherok, so if Rockbox doesn't honor the read only flag it doesn't make sense showing it.
19:32:51bluebrotherOTOH, should Rockbox honor the read only flag?
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19:33:17n1sfixing rockbox seems like the Right Thing
19:33:41*bluebrother is inclined to say that Rockbox should honor the RO flag
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19:34:11bluebrotherand in that case showing the flag does make sense :)
19:34:39n1syeah, will you make (un)setting them possible too?
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19:35:34bluebrothernot yet, but at a later point this would be useful −− basically it's picking up g#152
19:35:35fs-bluebotGerrit review #152 at,152 : Add support for HIDDEN Attribute of FAT filesystem by Akio Idehara (changes/52/152/7)
19:35:42bluebrotheror, as for now, parts of it.
19:36:18bluebrothersince I wanted to have the properties use two lined text since long. That scrolling can be quite annoying if the display is small.
19:36:39n1sah i thought i had seen it but didn't find it as it's abandoned
19:37:02bluebrotheryes, unfortunately.
19:37:39bluebrotherthe author even changed his name in Gerrit. Strange but well.
19:38:22bluebrotherI've starred that review so I can still find it easily :)
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20:11:26saratoga2dc891b-120213 gives 14:41 minutes on the fuzev1
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20:17:23saratogaa little better then 18 months ago, probably due to some of the mp3 optimizations since then
20:29:03n1smeh, merging the next part of the rbcodec series was made much more work by recent "clean ups"
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20:42:22bluebrotherhmpf, the player sim also crashes on Windows so it's not an issue related to my Linux distro / installation
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22:58:56lebelliumI bought a Fuze on ebay. It is about 2,5 year old so I assume that will be a v1. I read here and there that the v1 has more memory. Is that RAM memory? And if yes how much RAM do v1 and v2 have?
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23:00:25gevaertsI don't think the fuze v1 and v2 differ in RAM
23:00:35*gevaerts checks
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23:02:31gevaertsRight. Both 8MB
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23:03:29lebelliumhum ok thanks. But then what memory do people talk about when they say the v1 has more memory?
23:03:57gevaertsRAM. I remember trhe discussion, and the statement was revised later
23:04:20gevaertsThe e200 and c200 have less RAM in the v2
23:04:44saratogabertrik: are the fuze power issues figured out or should I test more
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23:06:10saratogausually you want the fuzev2/clipv2/+/zip over the v1 models since the battery life isn't as good
23:06:34lebelliumok good to know :) I see there are 2 different UI simulators for v1 and v2 but I assume I can use any of them to make a theme, a standard theme should work with both V1 and V2?
23:07:39gevaertsI don't expect theme differences between them, no
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23:11:48lebelliumand actually I gave up the idea of getting a H10 as for the same price I could get the Fuze :p
23:11:55CIA-44Commit b7bc240 in rockbox by Dominik Riebeling: Use two lined display in properties.
23:14:41CIA-44b7bc240 build result: All green
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