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#rockbox log for 2012-05-12

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08:47:55CIA-79Commit 2202ed3 in rockbox by Nils Wallménius: TDSpeed: Fix crackling on some systems
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08:55:22n1sZagor's build client seems to have trouble
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09:50:01wodzAfter session with my zsp400 disassembler I am almost sure rk27xx includes zsp500 core. There are number of opcodes marked as 'reserved' in zsp400 datasheet which seems to match limited info I have about G2 ISA.
09:50:03fs-bluebotNo review with id 2 found
09:51:57n1sbluebrother: could you fix the bot to just be silent of it doesn't find a review?
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10:21:06wodzmortalis: I guess the guy with 601slim didn't put BASE.RKW on the sd card so booting OF doesn't work. Since the screen doesn't work for him he can't see bootloader message about this
10:22:18mortalisyes, that was my thought too
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10:24:04wodzmortalis: could you make quick test for me?
10:27:18wodzmortalis: Try writing and then reading back something to 0x30000000 (this region should be 0x40000 or 0x80000 bytes big). If this fails ungate DSP peripherial clock and try again.
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10:56:52mortaliswodz: It hangs in any case
10:57:18wodzok thanks
10:57:40wodzI bet this is due to bad clock configuration
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12:24:50jhMikeSkugel: at least tweaking timestretch with soundtouch params sounds nice with music
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12:37:11bertrikoh nice, that hermite interpolator is only 4 taps
12:37:45bertrikhow well does it work?
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13:09:15CIA-79Commit 1d21e54 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: fuze+: add RDS support
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13:12:35CIA-791d21e54 build result: 88 errors, 0 warnings (Amaury Pouly committed)
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13:19:55pamaurybertrik: ping
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13:53:48bertrikpamaury, ping
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14:01:49pamaurybertrik: what is the typical time lapse between two RDS packets ? I'll try to monitor jhow long it takes on the fuze+ between reception and processing
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14:06:20bertrikpamaury, about 87.5 ms
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14:11:16Lis6502It's maybye not so-rockbox related question
14:11:29Lis6502But i still try:p
14:12:08Lis6502Does anyone know how hackers from Zen team figured out how to decrypt firmware update package
14:12:13Lis6502And extrack .bin file from it?
14:12:41Lis6502I've seen similiar approach for canon ixus400 (which i do own also), also successfull.
14:12:57 Join user890104 [0] (
14:14:07Lis6502And i am wondering how to deal with encrypted files, how to tell that it's encrypted? Any starting point in this toic for me please?
14:14:40Lis6502And for all those who want to say 'youre offtopin!': i do use rockbox sor sansa! :p
14:15:57bertrikWe've hacked a few encrypted firmwares
14:16:40Lis6502On site i've found infos only abut Zen M
14:16:49Lis6502But it's not so important i think
14:17:01Lis6502Still i do appreciate your effort in hacks:)
14:17:21bertrikmaybe they used a silly key to encrypt, like an all-zero key
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14:18:21Lis6502Does chips have built-in routines to decrypt?
14:18:51bertrikI know only of some ipods that have that, like the nano 2g
14:18:54Lis6502i mean: if firmware is encrypted, can i assume that algorithm used to do this is same for all devices
14:19:00Lis6502Using same chip or?
14:19:54bertrikencrypted data is usually uncompressible
14:20:20bertrikif you view the data as a bitmap and you can't see any pattern, then it could be encrypted
14:20:52Lis6502Or compressed as well, am i right?
14:27:17hcstrue, but compressed data is a lot more likely to still show patterns than decently encrypted data
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14:30:21Lis6502I am at the train and sometimes cellurar signal is not reaching this horizontal elevator:p
14:30:30*Lis6502 <3 pkp
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14:31:57pamaurybertrik: wow, that's precise :)
14:32:08Lis6502so thanks for clues bertrik
14:32:29Lis6502I've never thought for searching visible patterns in files
14:33:14Lis6502Listening to them or reading as txt files was often practiced:p
14:34:49Lis6502Oh, maybye one more issue, about encryption.
14:35:31Lis6502Can i assume that crypto-routines are standarized? Or any vendor uses his specific algorithm?
14:36:05pamauryLis6502: usually, decryption is figured out by looking at the code of the updater which can have to decrypt it before sending it to the device. Of more generally by reverse engineering any tool that is able to encrypt/decrypt them
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14:36:51pamauryusually vendor use a custom algorithm but a known encryption scheme, eg AES-128 but what is the key and what is encrypt can very a lot
14:37:19Lis6502Mhm, i got it
14:37:52Lis6502So it's never used that encrypted blob is sent to device and decrypted in device's flash?
14:38:02Lis6502By hardware or something?
14:39:15pamauryit depends, sometimes yes, sometimes no
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14:40:02pamaurybasically as soon as you have a program capable to encrypting or decrypting you can more or less figure out the scheme. Of course if it depends on a key, figuring out the key might prove difficult or impossible
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14:40:38Lis6502Hm, so usbsnoop-like software will be requirred to capture raw data sent to device and then compare it to the fw updater
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14:42:59pamaurythis is one possible technique
14:43:44Lis6502Thanks alot
14:43:52pamaurygood luck :)
14:43:57Lis6502I will be going now becuse trip has ended
14:44:11Lis6502But i will be back:) thanks once again ad bye
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15:43:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:14:11kugellebellium: hey. what happened to lorenzo92?
16:19:09lebelliumkugel: he's busy IRL
16:19:14lebelliumhe told me some days ago
16:19:19lebellium"well indeed I need really to talk with kugel
16:19:21lebelliumpff the thing is that I reinstalled the os
16:19:22lebelliumand still need to rebuild the compiler"
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16:40:22kugellebellium: use
16:41:55kugelto rebuild the compiler
16:42:07lebelliumI quoted Lorenzo...
16:42:14kugeloh heh
16:42:51kugeli can put it also on an ftp server if he's using 64bit linux
16:44:01lebelliumI'll tell him next time he's online
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18:53:04*[Saint] notices the repeat icon implies a loop in a particular direction which would be "wrong" for rtl langs.
18:53:51[Saint]this is taking more new images than I thought...
18:53:55copper[Saint]: I guess top to bottom would work?
18:54:07copperlike a playlist
18:56:25copperlike going through a playlist*
18:57:12gevaerts[Saint]: maybe you should investigate clocks in RTL regions
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18:58:28[Saint]gevaerts: pretty much every UI guidline I've managed to dig up implies any image with an implied direction should be flipped for the rtl case.
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18:58:38[Saint]but, I'm not sure about this one.
18:59:00gevaertsThis is a loop. It has *all* directions!
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18:59:53n1si don't think i'd notice which direction a loop icon was drawn
19:00:00[Saint]this is true, but, in the mockup I just looks out of place that the topmost arrow doesn't match the direction of the play and shuffle icons if I don't flip it.
19:00:23[Saint]n1s: I didn't, until I had flipped the other bitmaps :)
19:00:32[Saint]*then* it became rather obvious.
19:00:35gevaertsWe can of course just drop support for repeat
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19:02:24[Saint]If I go by "UI Gospel as according to Google", I should flip the seems.
19:04:27[Saint]its adding a bunch of new bitmaps, but the commit immediately after removes bitmaps that equate to ~10X what I've just, all is well in theory.
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19:19:47kugel[Saint]: have you seen my dynamic_lcd branch?
19:20:28kugelit has transparent images (so they can be arbitrarily positioned on the backdrop) which will probably end up in git master some time
19:21:47[Saint]yeah...I'm not so sure. I'm working with what *is* in git master, there's some pretty different views on who wants to do what and how.
19:21:55[Saint]No offence.
19:22:52kugelthey're easier to work with
19:22:54kugeljust saying
19:22:59jlbiasiniHello :D does someone know something about signal and slots in QT? I cannot get a slot called from a signal. The slot doesn't get recognized... I'm stuck on it for a while... (see my comment on g#187 if you want to help me)
19:23:01fs-bluebotGerrit review #187 at,187 : Rockbox Utility: add a Changelog menu on start/exit by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/87/187/2)
19:23:51[Saint]kugel: my current work uses all alpha channel for transparency also.
19:24:10[Saint]I thought you were talking about something other than the transparency, my mistake.
19:38:52kugeli'm right now sitting on a 768x1024 cabbiev2 port btw
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19:54:44bluebrotherjlbiasini: this looks wrong.
19:55:21bluebrotherfrom a quick look it looks like the problem is simply that the UI object isn't in scope anymore and therefore doesn't exist anymore
19:55:41bluebrotheryou should rather create a completely new class that implements the widget
19:56:11copperrasher: the font on the 720x1280 android build was way too small to be readable, last I checked (I don't know if you changed it in the meantime)
19:56:18bluebrotherlike gui/manualwidget.cpp
19:56:51rashercopper: that's because there's no default theme for 720x1280
19:57:24copperwhat's specific about that build then?
19:57:50[Saint]"there's no theme for it"
19:58:02[Saint]themes are resolution specific.
19:58:32bluebrotherand builds are resolution specific as well :)
19:59:00copperit's gotta be a bitch to support all smartphone resolutions
19:59:00bluebrotherso you have a build with the correct resolution but no theme for it. Using a theme for a different resolution will appear somewhat wrong :)
19:59:17[Saint]you're perfectly able to: A - Install more fonts, or B - Make your own theme
19:59:54jlbiasinibluebrother: thanks
20:01:17jlbiasiniso you mean take the whole code out of rbutil so that I would only call it from rbutil but have all the code in another class?
20:01:29copper[Saint]: how do I install fonts on android?
20:01:40[Saint]copper: My "Ubuntu" antialiased font set -
20:01:41copperI assume I have to unpack the font archive somewhere?
20:02:03[Saint]copper: same way you install fonts on any other Rockbox device (manually)
20:02:20copperI don't see the same directory structure
20:02:39copperI see /sdcard/rockbox/
20:02:53[Saint]you can either drop them straight into the install directory, or use the /sdcard/rockbox/fonts/ dir
20:03:04[Saint](you'll need to create this)
20:04:43[Saint]You can use the font pack provided on the website, but the largest font there is probably still too small, and none are antialiased.
20:05:16[Saint]The pack I linked above has various sizes, in reg/med/bold ranging from 10 to 50px
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20:06:31copper[Saint]: it works, thank you
20:06:41[Saint]Not a problem.
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21:22:55Thra11Some themes can show album artwork. Is the image stored as metadata in the audio file?
21:25:36gevaertsEither in a separate file, or for some formats in the metadata, yes
21:25:43copperThra11: artwork is taken either from embedded artwork in MP3 and AAC files, or from a "cover.jpg" or "folder.jpg" files (and a few others) in the same directory as the song
21:27:23Thra11copper: Excellent. Thanks!
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21:40:30AlexP_I have a theme that crashes the sim - on returning to the main menu it freezes then a few seconds later exits with "queue_post ovf q=0487D580" Is there anything I can do to help debug?
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22:50:22saratogai played around with the resampler some more, a 12khz tone with hermite and ~10th order FIR oversampling gives a peak error of about -45 dB
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22:50:59saratogahigher frequencies will do worse, but very loud high frequency tones are probably pretty rare in real music
22:52:18copperis that good?
22:52:34saratogabetter then what we have
22:53:31copperthat's cool then
22:54:04copperI assume there are hardware limitations to think of while choosing a resampling algorithm?
22:55:53saratogayes, we want something that uses as little battery life as possible
22:59:53coppersaratoga: can it achieve transparency?
23:00:06saratogafor real music, probably
23:00:15saratogaprobably not for pure tones though
23:00:29saratogaalthough the crap linear resampler in there now sounds good to a lot of people
23:00:46dfkti have no issues with my 22khz audio books with the current one :)
23:00:56coppera lot of the times, you kinda have to know what artifacts to listen for
23:01:14saratogai'm only testing 48-> 44.1k actually, since i figured that would be common and hard
23:01:18saratogai should probably try 22k
23:01:31copper96 would be "common" with audiophiles
23:01:41saratogaactually, since 22k is a factor of two, i guess the oversampling stage would oversample it to 44.1k and we could just stop there
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23:01:50coppere.g. FLACs from hdtracks
23:02:38saratogai was testing upsampling 48 to 96, then downsampling to 44.1 from there
23:03:17dfkti assume most hardware supports 48khz natively? is it more difficult for rockbox to just pass that through instead of resampling it?
23:03:29saratogawe talked about that, but i don't think its a good option
23:03:41saratogai think everything has to operate at one sampling rate
23:03:51saratogaalthough maybe we could have an option to let people pick what that rate is
23:04:25copper<AlexP> I don't know the details, but IIUC that would require rewriting large parts that assume 44.1
23:04:43saratogabut switching clocks without turning playback on and off would be very difficult, particularly if you want things like eq and voice UI to work
23:05:01dfktah, i remember, the 'master clock' speed.. the issue with the AMS sample rate correction
23:05:28saratogathats not a huge issue, actually plugins can already use 48k on AMS, the main issue is just figuring out how to mix stuff if the clocks are changing
23:06:02gevaertsdfkt: the trivial example of not so easy to handle things is probably crossfade between different rates
23:06:29saratogawell crossfade is a bad example since we could easily just disable it, but things like EQ and such can't really be disabled
23:06:35copperit's easy not to do it if sampling rates differ, no?
23:06:42copperwhat saratoga said
23:07:00saratogasince you might not know that a sampling rate change was coming until you had already EQed a lot of a track
23:07:16saratogaplus things like voice UI need to be mixed in, which is also ugly if the timing can change
23:07:32saratogai think the better solution would just be to have a good enough EQ that it doesn't matter
23:07:38saratogasorry resampler
23:07:40saratoganot eq
23:07:59dfkti see
23:08:09saratogaand maybe the option to run things at 48k for people with lots of DVD or DVD-A rips
23:08:12gevaertsWe could disable it, yes, but as I understand the point of crossfade is specifically to have decent sounding track changes when e.g. shuffling, which is exactly when you're most likely to hit changing sample rates
23:08:18saratogasince 96 -> 48k is painless enough
23:09:11saratogaactually on newer arm doing integer rate changes is really, really fast thanks to all the dsp instructions in 5E and higher
23:10:09copper88.2 -> 44.1 would go easy then?
23:10:15copper(SACD rips)
23:10:20saratogaalthough i wonder how badly it would sound if we just switched the clocks on track change (between 44.1 and 48k only)
23:10:38saratogathey're so close, you might not notice that the timing was all off or that pitch on voice got messed up :)
23:11:18saratogaalthough i bet theres a nasty pop sound when the DAC reclocks
23:11:26saratogawhich would be pretty easy to spot
23:11:56gevaertssaratoga: I'd say the people who hear resampling artefacts are not unlikely to spot voice pitch changing by 10% :)
23:12:13copperbtw, the iPod Classic clocks in at 44118 Hz, how does that work for Rockbox?
23:12:14saratogawell just for voice UI and things that get mixed in
23:12:50saratogafor audio you could probably figure out some way to send the reclock in sync with the end of the track, or at least to flush the buffer once the reclock is done, so that no wrong pitch music plays
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23:13:36saratogastill worse then just using good resampling though
23:14:26saratogacopper: did you measure that?
23:15:08coppersaratoga: no, the spec sheet of the audio chip says so
23:15:19saratogathats probably nonsese
23:15:35copperthey're consistent with the discrepancy
23:16:38saratogait probably just uses whatever clock we feed it
23:17:13saratogaalthough you'd have to check the code to be sure
23:17:28copperI did record a track, and it finisheed a few hundred samples sooner than the reference file
23:17:49coppermaybe thousands
23:18:08copperI recorded the iPod I mean
23:20:42dfktjust did a 48khz sine sweep... as of now, rockbox is as good/bad as android :) −− −−
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23:22:27dfkt(that's rockbox on a clip zip, not raaa)
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