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#rockbox log for 2012-05-21

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00:30:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:51:03afruff23Dots anybody know what the file browser hotkey is mapped to on the fuze plus?
07:51:54afruff23The manual says "tbd" sooooo I'm going it's out of date and it's already mapped.
07:52:30afruff23Does* sooooo
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08:28:12CIA-79Commit 0ebfb93 in rockbox by Michael Sevakis: Fix some lockup caused by handles not being initialized to < 0...
08:30:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:41:32CIA-790ebfb93 build result: All green
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09:20:23[Saint]the keymap does seem o be nonobvious, but, its hardly hidden either.
09:20:26[Saint]*to be
09:20:53[Saint]It appears to be BUTTON_BOTTOMRIGHT, which, unless I'm mistaken, will be part of the touchpad?
09:21:03[Saint]Oh...crap, he left.
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10:01:44gevaertsZagor: did something happen to
10:02:34Zagoroops, yes. fixing...
10:06:10Zagorbluebrother: is now available and can be used as the sole file for rbutil
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12:10:32guest56Hi, about the frotz plugin. is there any wayto use a differnet font? My screen is kind of small, so I wanted to use Tiny. Is there an option for that?
12:13:12gevaertsguest56: a quick look at the source tells me it uses the system font, so no, it's not configurable without work on the source
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12:18:32guest56Oh, OK. Thanks.
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12:21:07Tornehandling fonts in frotz is tricky
12:23:10Torneit needs a fixed width font, currently
12:23:19Torneto use the user font i think i'd have to print the characters one at a time.
12:24:43Torneit needs a better screen model to handle variable pitch :/
12:30:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:49:15[Saint]Oh,, I forgot about Frotz
12:49:29*[Saint] wonders if it is compiled for application builds.
12:49:41Torneseems like a silly idea.
12:51:40[Saint]plugins on application builds are a silly idea period, but hey!
12:53:57Tornefrotz is a much worse idea than most :)
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13:08:24gevaertsIt depends. On pure application builds it's a silly idea. On hybrid builds it's useful
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16:29:20CIA-79Commit cd7a478 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: imx233: enable PLL on startup
16:30:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:31:37pamaurydo we use the DSP on the SA58700 ?
16:31:44pamaurys/use/know how to use
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16:40:05CIA-79cd7a478 build result: All green
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16:48:11Zagorapps/plugins/pacbox/z80.c is a monster!
16:49:17Zagorit takes >7 seconds to compile on my 3GHz corei3
16:49:56 Quit mortalis (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
16:50:12Zagorit single-handedly adds a *lot* of time to the builds
16:50:33n1sit has about one million tiny globaly visible functions
16:52:31ZagorI didn't know pacbox was a full z80 emulator :-)
16:54:52n1siirc we have at least a couple z80 emulators...
16:57:21n1sah no, seems to be only two, zxbox and pacbox
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17:27:42Tornen1s: rockboy is a sorta-z80 emulator also
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17:28:19Torne(gameboy cpu is based on z80, minus some bits, plus other bits)
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17:40:17n1sTorne: that's probably what i was remembering but from a quick google i just saw that it didn't have a z80
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17:49:29Tornen1s: it's not actually a z80, no; but it's instruction-set compatible except for the bits it's missing (the implemented bits are the same)
17:49:32Tornei.e. it's a bad clone
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17:49:51n1sheh, ok
17:50:31n1sso for the purpose of complaining about compile times it should be similar to a z80 emu :)
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18:30:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:49:41CIA-79Commit 70876a8 in rockbox by Nils Wallménius: Delete obsolete define from the config files for the new creative ports.
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19:59:52amee2kevening everyone
20:00:35bertrikhi amee2k
20:01:41amee2kmaybe mildly ot, but still... i got my hands on another ipod mini and this time i want to keep it for myself... does anyone by chance know the size limit for a "compact flash mod" on the minis?
20:02:02amee2ki'm contemplating 32GB but the internetz isn't as to whether that works or not :/
20:04:33 Quit XavierGr (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
20:07:15bertrikI don't know, I don't have an ipod mini, but I think some of the other developers do
20:07:56 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend)
20:08:01amee2ki've done an 8GB mod before on the first mini and it worked, but the internet has it that with 32G there are weird issues
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20:14:52[Saint]I have a 64GB CF in my Color
20:14:59[Saint] fine.
20:15:54[Saint]amee2k: just buy one, and keep the receipt.
20:16:16[Saint]If it doesn't work, return it. At the least you'll get store credit.
20:17:00[Saint]Then get a 16GB one, and <something_else>
20:17:21amee2kisn't nano like hm.. 5 years older than color?
20:17:50[Saint]I can't speak for the mini, but, as I said a 64GB CF "just works" in might iPod Color
20:17:54amee2kif i go to a real walk-in store i can return the crap for cash
20:18:26[Saint]Why did you say Nano?
20:18:39amee2kmini of course
20:18:57amee2kthe installer identified it as 1st gen mini anyway
20:19:14amee2klooks the same as the silver one i had last summer or something like that
20:19:22amee2kexcept that this time it is in some gay pale blue
20:19:24[Saint]The Color/4G is from ~2006 or so, I think.
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20:20:04amee2ki have no idea how old this thing is. second time i'm touching an ipod in my life >_>
20:20:14saratoga2004 i think
20:20:29[Saint]It's largely irrelevant tthough I believe, I don't think it cares at all about the capacity.
20:20:30amee2kbut i vaguely remember the commercials for the mini which would put it ... yeah 2004 or older
20:20:36saratogaare we doing a 3.11.3 release ?
20:20:45amee2ki haven't had a TV for the better part of a decade now
20:21:21amee2k[Saint]: yeah well intuitively i'd agree. but it still was never designed for more than 4GB so there could be awkward issues
20:22:28[Saint]The OF might care, but, Rockbox shouldn't give a flying fudge.
20:22:35amee2k"just trusting" that things work for stuff they were never designed to do is a dangerous game
20:22:53amee2k(and since the invention of china, trusting that stuff works for things that it /was/ designed to do is just as dangerous)
20:23:01[Saint]Yeah, just make sure you keep your receipt(s) :)
20:23:57 Quit n1s (Read error: Connection timed out)
20:24:02amee2kneat. 16GB is only 30EUR
20:24:35amee2k32 doesn't start under 53 at conrad... 16G is tempting too
20:25:10[Saint]I was a lucky bugger when it came to my 64GB CF. It was already in the iPod when I purchased it.
20:25:25[Saint]And I only paid $80 for the Color, too.
20:25:32 Quit kadoban (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:25:42amee2k64G CF costs 200 eurobucks >_<
20:25:44[Saint]Less than a quarter of the CF alone.
20:25:53amee2kno poop
20:25:59[Saint]That was a good day.
20:26:19amee2kwtf sandisk 64GB extreme blah blah 499.95EUR
20:26:30amee2khow much shit do you have to smoke to buy that
20:26:52[Saint]Digital camera enthusiasts.
20:28:09amee2kthe only thing extreme about that card is the price tag
20:28:21amee2kbut... hardcore, dude. thats one expensive bdsm club
20:28:47[Saint]There's really no need to buy a super-backflip CF, even the slowest one should be able to supply the mostly insanely encoded audiophile-suited forecast.
20:29:09[Saint]Damn autocomplete! *codecs is a word!
20:30:08amee2kno shit
20:30:20amee2kthe 8G card i used for the last mod was the cheapest thing i found on ebay
20:30:29[Saint]Errr, correction. There is a need, but, that need isn't relevant for DAPs :)
20:30:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:31:42amee2kwell, some people "need" 3000EUR SSDs with 16x PCI-E interface too
20:32:20amee2kthe far more interesting question is how many need it because they're into stiff hpc stuff
20:32:25[Saint]Well, yes, but not just to play FLAC with. :)
20:32:30amee2kand how many need it because something isn't quite as stiff
20:32:53amee2k[Saint]: right. they should at least play Counter Strike with it.
20:32:57*amee2k nods vigorously
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20:35:50amee2krb doesn't by chance have some kind of hdd test tool, eh?
20:36:04amee2ki'm suspecting the shitty microdrive in that ipod is screwed up anyway
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20:40:16[Saint]No, although it *could* be done...its better suited to be done from a PC
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20:41:57[Saint]There's been some talk for years about implementing some form of plugin to return S.M.A.R.T data, but no one has actually got around to doing so.
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20:54:41amee2kyeah well USB is a dick move for storage anyway, even if there was a hdd test tool for external drives i wouldn't trust it
20:55:30amee2k[Saint]: i was thinking more like a real read/read+write test. not just the smart shit
20:56:13amee2ki've had drives with clear signs of failure (freeze-ups, scrambled sectors, clicking, you name it) vigorously insist that they are fully functional according to SMART
20:56:51[Saint]Oh, yes, we do have a read/write test I believe...but none of the test plugins are compiled by default.
20:57:04[Saint]You'll need to compile your own build for that.
20:57:20amee2kjust something that stresses the drive and is written in a way that *expects* failure, i.e. doesn't just freeze up when something goes wrong
20:57:46amee2khmm okay
20:58:07amee2ki'll see if i can give that a shot tomorrow
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20:58:39amee2kmy schedule is pretty plastered lately... next weekend has a lot of useless holidays so this week and next effectively only have 4 days for me
21:00:07[Saint]We have "ready-to-rock'n'roll" vmware images up on the wiki.
21:00:55amee2khow about virtualbox?
21:01:52[Saint]I'm not sure, I know there's vmware image(s?) available, but that's all.
21:01:53 Quit enthdegree (Client Quit)
21:02:10[Saint]You could make one, and put it on the wiki for us ;)
21:02:10amee2ki used to use vmware back in my windows days
21:02:26amee2kbut cbf to mess with cracks and keygens and stuff anymore
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21:03:03amee2kwhat does the image do anyway? do i dd that on the ipod or something?
21:03:07[Saint]Ohhhh...if you're already using a Linux distro, then all is well. There's a pain free "set up your dev environment" page up on the wiki.
21:03:36amee2kthats more like it
21:05:13[Saint]Setup pretty much consists of "checkout sources, run one script", then building for any given target is approximately 5 commands the first time, and 1 or 2 for subsequent builds of the same target.
21:06:09amee2kim gonna try it tomorrow... got to finish homework for two more classes to finish tonight
21:07:04[Saint]There 'ya go.
21:07:26[Saint]Ohhh...actually. Hmmm.
21:07:41amee2kyou want to do my homework for statistics and database theory? ;)
21:07:58[Saint]Ah, nevermind. It has been updated to point to git.
21:08:28[Saint]Yeah, the above link will guide you through it.
21:10:16gevaerts[Saint]: the problem with SMART is not that nobody got around to doing it, it's that SMART attributes are non-standard and a mess
21:11:16[Saint]There is a set of "standard" SMART attributes though, no? Its just some that do their own weird shit I thought.
21:11:50gevaertsAlso, I'm not convinced that test_dusk is the right tool to use. It will show driver and controller issues, but it doesn't do a test of the entire disk
21:11:56amee2ki think so. there is at least a health indicator that just gives a good/bad result that seems to be fairly standard
21:12:08amee2kthe problem i have with smart isn't the interface
21:12:16amee2kit is that the returned values are simply unreliable
21:12:27amee2kmost annoyingly it gives false-good results
21:13:10[Saint]With a good/bad result, you may as well flip a coin. :)
21:13:47amee2ki'd rather put it in my test box and dd over the drive
21:13:54[Saint]gevaerts: test_disk shows read/write though, no? That's all that is wanted here.
21:13:55amee2kif the box crashes, the drive is screwed up
21:14:11amee2kcall the manufacturer, lie about that you ran their shitty test too and ask for an RMA number
21:15:17gevaerts[Saint]: it does, but only a few hundred KB IIRC
21:15:25gevaertsOr maybe a few megabytes
21:15:50gevaertsSo sure, if that's enough, go for it, but if you don't believe a drive is good I'd say it's not good enough as a test
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21:17:16funmanwe could change testdisk to perform a whole disk read/write test
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21:17:44[Saint]Optionally, one would hope.
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21:18:46lorenzo92kugel: hey! I know time is limited,but ... any chance to do something with the package I sent you? :)
21:19:20[Saint]It could probably be set up to offer: fast read, fast write, fast read/write, full read, full write, and full read/write with ease.
21:19:54[Saint]Where "fast *" just does a few MB or so.
21:20:52[Saint]How useful it is would be subjective, but, I'm pretty sure even I could hack that up.
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21:21:21Tornefunman: i have a testdisk patch around somewhere that does that, i think
21:21:35funman[Saint]: i would look at badblocks program
21:21:44TorneYeah, i have a patch that does sector reads/writes at various offsets
21:21:53gevaerts[Saint]: it does a lot more than this "fast read, fast write, fast read/write" now :)
21:22:14Tornei do also have a patch that does SMART, but still not very well
21:22:19*gevaerts thinks that if we get a full disk r/w test program, it may be better to do a different plugin
21:22:23Tornethe sector writes is hilariously dangerous
21:22:31Tornesince it's, yaknow, destructive.
21:22:38[Saint]gevaerts: oh, I know...but I couldn't be bothered listing *everything* :)
21:22:39Tornei was using it to benchmark ATA DMA
21:22:46Torneso i didn't care that it was overwriting random bits of the disk :p
21:23:19CIA-79Commit 545f417 in rockbox by Michael Sevakis: voice_thread_init was left INIT_ATTR but is being called too late.
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21:24:32[Saint]Torne: are those patches up on gerrit? #lazy
21:24:39Torneno, they are not useful
21:24:46Tornethe test_disk patch is incredibly incredibly dangerous, also
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21:25:11Tornethe SMART patch only checks the "broken" flag on the drive, and doesn't do anything particularly useful with it; the attributes are there but there's nothing to look at them with
21:25:23Torneand the tes_disk patch is not really general; it's written to do specific benchmarking of sector accesses
21:25:34Tornebut, if someone really wants to do something it might be useful :)
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21:26:00[Saint]At the least it might be a good starting point.
21:26:08Tornei'll actually finish the smart patch at some point
21:26:12Tornei doubt the other one is worth it
21:26:32[Saint]Yeah, that was the one I was interested in personally.
21:26:37Tornethe main thing you need to do any kind of low-level benchmarking or disk reads/writes is for storage_read_sectors and storage_write_sectors to be added to the plugin api :)
21:27:09Torne[Saint]: well, i have no idea if it even works, is the problem
21:27:21TorneI cannot find, anywhere, a disk that's actually failed according to smart to test it on :p
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21:27:46Tornei have some pretty broken-ass disks with terrible attribute values that obviously mean it's failed, but the "ok" response is still ok
21:27:52Tornebecause it's not quite broken enough :)
21:28:03[Saint]Torne: I have plenty enough disks around here to make that happen :)
21:28:06Tornei think one ofthem is, like, 94% to the broken threshold :p
21:28:13TorneIt's really tricky to *make* it happen
21:28:22CIA-79545f417 build result: All green
21:28:23Tornethe disk still has to identify and work :p
21:28:39[Saint]It is? I rather thought scribbling across the platter with a screwdriver would do it.
21:28:54TorneIf you open it and do that then *probably* it won't work at all any more
21:29:04Tornemodern disks' firmware is basically stored on the disk
21:29:24[Saint]Well, these are by no means modern disks :)
21:29:31Torneby modern i mean, say, IDE
21:29:38[Saint]I have some that are around 15 years old.
21:29:44TorneAs opposed to MFM/RLL :p
21:30:03Torne15 years old probably doesn't implement SMART, instead
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21:30:22[Saint]I was *just* thinking that... ;)
21:32:19[Saint]How do they make sure SMART works in the first place? If I look hard enough, I wager I may be able to find some form of tool that emulates a drive which is fucked in various configurable ways.
21:32:45Torneit's probably not important
21:32:53Tornethe failed bit is kinda useless anyway
21:33:03Torneits' jsut the easy bit to implement.
21:33:11gevaertsYou can do an IDE controller on a breadboard with switches, does the same thing go for a drive?
21:33:31gevaertsIf so, you can build a broken drive on an arduino :)
21:33:42gevaerts(or seven arduinos)
21:34:34[Saint]Without actually looking, I'm sure there must be smell form of "emulate a disk which is broken in various configurable ways" tool out there.
21:34:46Torne[Saint]: when you say "tool" i hope you mean "physical thing"
21:34:52Torneanyway, there really isn't any point testing it that way
21:34:58[Saint]smell form? Errr, *some form
21:35:13Tornebecause all it'll be doing is that testing that the code i expect to work works when used against a device that behaves how i expect
21:35:22Tornewhich should be true, the code is not very complicated
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22:29:27bluebrotherok, so as far as I understand english.lang will always have sorted and zero-based indexes.
22:30:06bluebrotherso by retrieving the indices from any .lng file I should be able to sort the strings in the correct order for passing them to voicefont.
22:30:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:31:56bluebrotherwhat happens when creating a voice file for some language where not all voice strings have translations? Will the english strings be used?
22:31:58 Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection)
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22:33:28bluebrotheror will those strings not be voiced at all?
22:34:15amiconnThey won't be voiced at all
22:34:34bluebrotherok, so I can ignore that case. Nice, makes things easier :)
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22:54:26jhMikeSamiconn: does 545f417 solve anything for you?
22:57:00amiconnDidn't test yet
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23:09:10amee2kif the USB storage device randomly "hickups" while copying files to it, is that indicative of a bad hard drive?
23:09:31amee2k(still ipod mini, and by hickup i mean suddenly disappear and come right back after a few seconds)
23:11:15gevaertsit may be, but there are some (rare) cases where some USB hubs or ports trigger issues with our USB driver
23:14:32CIA-79Commit 29cfd29 in rockbox by Michael Sevakis: Stop timestretch freezing things during format changes.
23:18:15*jhMikeS notices you have to keep holding a button for awhile for charge-only USB mode or it might still go into mass-storage mode
23:20:02jhMikeSay, slow builds
23:20:10CIA-7929cfd29 build result: All green
23:26:36amee2kjhMikeS: was that directed at me?
23:26:49jhMikeSwhat was?
23:27:25amee2kthe thing about USB
23:27:37amee2kand storage
23:27:41jhMikeSno, just an observation of something a bit buggy
23:27:47amee2kjust wondering since my Q was mildly storage related
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