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#rockbox log for 2012-06-07

00:04:04 Quit Kohlrabi (Remote host closed the connection)
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00:10:50funmanit dates back from r26126
00:11:10funman.describe 922f83e64
00:11:10fs-bluebotNot quite working yet, but almost. by Tobias Diedrich (from Tue, 18 May 2010 07:00:57 +0000)
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00:40:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:36:40RFroehninghow can i use INT_SETTING_W_CFGVALS such as that the callback will be called only on confimation of the setting? F_TEMPVAR seems not to be the solutions.
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01:37:10RFroehningso while switching between the different settings (displayed by a formatter)
01:37:25RFroehningthe actuall values are not changed until confirmed.
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01:38:28RFroehningthe reason for this: i want to have a switch between "on, continue, off" for a sleeptimer, but if i switch from off to continue.. it would be 0 and switching from on to continues results in the preset value ...
01:38:57RFroehningproblem: how do i know in quckscreen about the confirmation?
01:39:04RFroehningit will be set instantly i guess?
01:43:14saratogabertrik, funman: uncommenting that breaks USB mode for me (play goes into USB, windows dings twice but it never mounts)
01:43:33saratogaplayer doesn't crash or anything though
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02:04:09funmanwe should ask ranmachan
02:04:46funmanranmachan: do you remember why there is a return in the middle of usb_drv_cancel_all_transfers in usb-drv-as3525.c ?
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02:40:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:43:02ranmachanfunman: Hmm, sorry, no clue. Maybe I added it while debugging and just forgot to remove it... *shrugs*
02:45:52ranmachanAnd it does look like I never implemented it properly
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08:03:06*[Saint] wonders why he never recalls ever seeing two wiki user lists
08:03:36[Saint]going right back to rev==200 tells me I'm insane, but, I still never recall seeing this.
08:04:24[Saint]Something about the wiki is fundamentally broken, my usual trick to get it working stopped working the last time I tried adding someone (creating their user page manually)
08:04:37gevaertsI intend to ask Zagor about this when he oins
08:05:27[Saint]Sometimes when you add someone, their user page isn't created when they log in, and they never actually get access...I used to be able to "fix" this by creating the user page manually and adding a blank user form to it, but that failed the last time I tried it too.
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08:07:12[Saint]I recall finding a nice little edit box a while back, that automagically added the new wikiuser into the group for you...but I can't erven seem to find that anymore.
08:07:21[Saint]...oh, maybe I have to be logged in.
08:10:07[Saint]Hmmmm...there's also a mile of blank space at the end of the page.
08:10:14[Saint]something is busted.
08:12:57[Saint] doesn't seem to like Chrome very much. But, I managed to get the "add memeber" thing to pop up again, that's a slight bonus I guess.
08:13:17[Saint]it just won't let me click on the history links anymore. :-S
08:13:39gevaertsHistory links didn't work for me either, I had to build the URL by hand
08:13:51[Saint]it worked for me before I logged in.
08:15:02[Saint]My speculation, is that if we grap both lists, and run it through sort+unique, then remove the dead user pages, things should go a lot smoother.
08:15:54[Saint]I've /always/ wanted to do this...but, the potential risk isn't worth it if I really messed things up, since I'm not a Swede.
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08:19:24[Saint]the wiki is certainly seems to be the most neglected Rockbox "product"(?)
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08:21:27[Saint] is an amusing example, the last good revision is from 12 years ago.
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08:30:53[Saint]fuck me:
08:31:16[Saint]you'd be all like "Ahhhhhhhrgh!...hmmm? yay!"...."Awwwww..."
08:32:31[Saint]...lets pretend that didn't happen.
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09:23:43wodzwhat are ncdata and ncbss sections?
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09:44:42kugelwodz: uncached perhaps?
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10:02:07wodzkugel: judging from comments it is but my question was more how they are placed, how they are used and why
10:02:41wodzat first glance it looks like another complication for relocating loader
10:03:05kugelthey are in normal data/bss but have uncached aliases mapped (using MMU) to other addresses
10:04:08wodzthey are linked differently
10:05:01kugelyes, they are linked to the uncached aliases but their real postion is interleaved with normal data/bss
10:05:23kugelso the loader loads all data to the same space
10:05:37wodzbut that means that relocation would be different for this
10:06:47wodzthe difference would be NOCACHE_BASE if I understand linker script correctly
10:08:24kugelas the copy location is the same and the DRAM_BASE and NOCACHE_BASE difference is constant i don't think the loader needs to tread it specially
10:09:03kugelthe offset to NOCACHE_BASE can be applied at link time, the loader would add the DRAM_BASE offset as normal
10:09:50wodzkugel: adding special offset at link time is problematic with how bflt is created
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10:10:57wodzfrom the other hand this will be the easiest solution
10:16:24kugelwodz: you only need to apply the NOCACHE_BASE offset to the code referencing the data, the data itself doesnt need to be relocated differently
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10:20:12wodzwhich boils down to bflt loader aware of nc* variants to fix relocations
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10:25:11kugelwodz: not if the linker fixed the code already
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10:39:05rarogpamaury: Good morning. I've read in the forum about bootloader with boot menu. If you want someone to test it, I'd be willing to do it.
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14:36:58pamauryRAThomas: ping
14:37:17RAThomaspamaury: morning
14:37:31pamauryI made an interesting discovery
14:37:33untrackprotocol mismatch :)
14:37:47pamauryI tried the rk29xx tools on the sa32xx image
14:37:53RAThomasuntrack: I ran out of "pong"
14:38:10pamauryindeed, the offset matches and the file contains two subfiles
14:38:22RAThomasgood, that jibes
14:38:23pamaurybut then the AFPtool and cramfs tool don't seem to be happy with it
14:38:54pamauryBUT my rknanotools works the update.img extract from the file
14:39:24pamauryso the sa32xx.img actually contains two files: one rknano image and something else
14:39:50pamauryI'll try cramfs on the other one like the guys did with rk29xx but I'm not too optimistic
14:40:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:41:35RAThomasAFPtool seems to be for Android (sig "RKAF" == Android Firmware)
14:41:57RAThomasand yeah, I had no luck with cramfsck
14:42:09pamauryit's still a mystery to me what the other file is
14:42:21RAThomasI understood the two blocks to be "ROM" and "bootloader"
14:42:23pamaurybut I will try to commit my rknano tools
14:43:45pamauryI haven't really figured out the entire format unfortunately. I know it's made of blob, some are definitely code but I'm not sure if there are encrypted or not, they don't seem to be valid code :(
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14:44:08pamauryI've made some progress in reverse engineering the rknano toolsfound on the internet but it's a very hard work
14:44:33RAThomasagreed. While I'm not very familiar with ARM code, I didn't see anything coherent in the disassembly
14:45:07pamaurywhat is disappointing is that one of the binay blob contains unencrypted strings which makes it unlikely that it is encrypted :-/
14:45:35RAThomasyep. Filenames and such. Enticing, but not helpful so far
14:47:37pamaurywait a minute, I'll commit my work so you can have a look, I should already have done that anyway
14:48:43Tornethe blob looks unencrypted but doesn't seem to contain code?
14:48:48Tornecan i see this somewhere? :)
14:49:35RAThomasTorne: binary Firmware.img from here:
14:49:44RAThomastopic is rknano-b
14:49:50CIA-4Commit 1a4fa16 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: unwarminder: fix data_abort_handler (wrong address to UIE)
14:49:50CIA-4Commit 71f3255 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: imx233: define HAVE_TEST_AND_CLEAN_CACHE
14:49:50CIA-4Commit c4911de in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: Initial commit from rknano utils. This is very preliminary work.
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14:50:18TorneRAThomas: which zip? (lazy)
14:50:30RAThomasbottom one with "fuz" in the filename
14:50:56pamauryTorne: you will need to run two tools to actually extract what is code
14:50:58RAThomasprobably means Firmware Update Zipped
14:51:15Tornepamaury: is it just embedded, though?
14:51:41pamauryTorne: this file is using a format partly desribed in the link provided by RAThomas
14:51:51CIA-4c4911de build result: All green
14:51:54Torneright, but see wher ei said i'm lazy. :) is there an already extracted one?
14:52:35pamauryTorne: there are several executable blob. Wait a minute, I'll extract the one the sa32xx, perhaps these one are better. I'll upload it in a minute
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14:56:20RAThomasrockchip seems to be pretty consistent in tagging different parts of their images. In the one we're talking about, the first signature is "RKFW" followed by an offset & length values pointing to a block with the sig "BOOTf"...
14:56:45RAThomasfollowing that BOOT chunk is a block with the sig "RKnanoFW"
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14:58:07pamauryRAThomas: you can run the tool I committed on the update.img file procuded by the rk29xx tools. That's the file with the RKnanoFW
14:58:26pamauryfor some reason they decided to put the signature at the end...
14:58:39RAThomaspamaury: cool. I've already got them split, but its good to have a purpose-built tool
14:58:41pamauryTorne: you want to look at stage3.bin
14:58:58Torneyou think that's the main binary?
14:58:58RAThomasHmm, maybe I don't have it split right ;)
14:59:16pamauryTorne: yes
14:59:28pamaurybut I think this might only be a bootloader
14:59:37Tornewow, that download site is a huge pain in the arse :)
14:59:47Tornedownloading now, after some kind of voodoo ritual ;p
15:00:39pamauryactually, I've seen rknano file where the same file is repeated twice or more. Because the total extracted size doesn't sum to 26MB here
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15:01:51Torneyeah, that looks like some fun gibberish indeed :)
15:02:07*Torne fires up his arm toolchain
15:02:22pamauryI can try the descramble routine of the rk27xx but last I tried, the output wasn't any better :)
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15:04:37TorneThere's recognisable code in there
15:04:40TorneWhat CPU is this for?
15:04:44Tornespecifically, i mean
15:05:24Tornewhat ARM version?
15:05:34RAThomasno one know ;)
15:05:36pamaurywe don't know for sure
15:05:41Tornethis code looks like Thumb2
15:05:49pamauryhmm, interesting
15:05:53Torneif you disassemble it with -M force-thumb and then search for push and pop instructions
15:05:57Torneyou will find neat function preamble/postambles
15:06:01Tornelined up in a row
15:06:06Tornewhich looks like a valid disassembly
15:06:11Torneit doesnt' start from 0, but hey
15:06:21Tornebut there are Thumb2 opcodes being used here
15:06:43Tornee.g. ldr.w
15:06:56pamauryso it might actually be using another format ^^
15:07:03TorneAnyway, yeah
15:07:09TorneThis looks like a binary with some kind of header
15:07:17Torneit's just proabbly mostly/all Thumb code
15:07:23Torneand thus looks like garbage as arm disassemblty
15:07:32RAThomasYep, I'm a newb at ARM, but I didn't see anything coherent in my disassembly
15:07:43Torneyou won't if you disassemble it as ARM, no ;p
15:07:47pamauryI had tried thumb2 but this the header looked garbage I ignored it
15:07:49Torneyouc an tell if somethign is an ARM binary just by looking
15:08:05TorneARM binaries are full of strings of words that start with E
15:08:14TorneThumb is not so visually identifiable due to being denser
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15:08:44Tornebut "f7ffff" is a good marker for thumb
15:09:00Torne(as that's 3/4 of a thumb branch instruction)
15:09:01pamauryI have a theory for the header: it's a sb like format, saying "load this here, jump here, write this there"
15:09:13TorneSeems plausible
15:09:30Tornealternatively: relocations
15:09:51Tornemaybe not.
15:09:56pamaurythat would be overkill for a bootloader no? I haven't seen any format with relocations so far
15:10:12*pamaury will investigate it
15:10:23Torneanyway, entrypoint appears to be 0xf14
15:10:26Torneor at least the first code
15:10:36Tornethe stuff before that is pretty regular and could well be a load list
15:10:40Tornebut it's a very very long one, if so
15:10:50Tornepossibly a lot of it is garbage/padding :p
15:11:19Torneanyway. my work here is done :)
15:11:21Tornegood luck with that.
15:11:27RAThomasheh, thanks
15:11:49Tornethat was the part i'm good at :p
15:11:59RAThomasand just as it's getting interesting... I've gotta go get some paying work done :)
15:12:01Torneactually working out what all the disassembly means is less fun :p
15:12:16RAThomashey, got me headed in the right direction.
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15:12:29Torneanyway, it being thumb2 implies the cpu is ARMv7 which is interesting :p
15:12:41TorneHve you found any ARM code at all?
15:12:48TorneIt would be interesting if the chip was a v7-M
15:12:59pamauryI haven't tried to hard to be honest
15:13:11pamauryI have another file with 4 stages instead of one, perhaps it has both
15:13:13TorneIf there's no ARM code at all anywhere then it's possible it's a v7-M
15:13:19Tornerather than v8-A
15:13:31pamauryOn the downside, I don't think my ida pro version can handle thumb2
15:13:34Tornei.e. the uC variant that can only decode thumb2
15:14:18pamauryI wouldn't be surprized that it only decodes thumb2 if it has a dsp like the rk27xx
15:14:36Tornei assume this device is just an mp3 player, not something smarter
15:14:49Torneif so then it's very likely a cortex-m3 or m4
15:15:11Tornerunning the -M subset of v7, doing just thumb2 (and also no cpu modes and so on)
15:15:39Torneit wouldn't necessarily need a DSP copro to be able to run codecs
15:15:49Tornev7-M still has a lot of the ARM DSP instructions iirc
15:15:53Tornejust in thumb2 encodings
15:16:55Tornebut if it does have a dsp then using a cortex-m instead of a real arm core also makes a lot of sense :)
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16:28:41pamauryTorne: I have found some pattern, see
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16:28:48pamaurywhat do you think about it ?
16:29:30RFroehningcan someone point me to an entry for settings at startup? i dont know where to check the variable: sleeptimer_on_startup prperly....
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16:36:36pamauryRAThomas: I've found some pattern in the file, here is the output:
16:36:41pamauryany comment/thoughts ?
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16:44:44Tornethat looks like a plausible start, but the interpretation seems a bit off
16:45:39Torneall those overlapping bits seem unlikely
16:45:44Tornebut the offset/etc looks nice
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16:53:15pamaurywhat is strange is that if one keep the "begin" and "size" field on the "Range 1", these seem consistent
16:53:25pamaurybut the "end" field of the range is...strange
16:54:09pamauryplus there are "holes", like offset at 0xf14 then at 0x8b7c and the difference is exactly 0x6704 + 0x1564...
16:55:25pamauryand why is there a kind of "base address" ?
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16:56:34Tornehow big is each entry by your interpretation, btw?
16:56:37Tornei.e. what are the field sizes
16:56:56Torne(i don't hve the binary handy any more, sorry, i'm dumb) :)_
16:57:21pamauryall fields are 32-bit, each entry is 8 words
16:57:30pamaurythat's my interpretation of course
16:58:40pamauryalso a remark: in the code, the first "chunk" see to end at 0x7530 and not 0xf14+0x6704 and the gap is not filled with zeroes
16:58:42Torneit doesn't happen to look similar to Elf32_Phdr? :)
16:59:10pamauryin a way yes
16:59:47Torne107 would be a crazy number of program headers, though
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16:59:51Tornebinaries typically have, like, four
17:00:31pamauryand the p_type member of Phdr would not match
17:01:06pamauryexcept if the data is not word aligned
17:01:43Tornei didn't mean it was actually that, just that that's a reasonable set of fields to have
17:01:47Tornepossibly in a different order
17:04:27pamauryit really seems that are two sets of address: 0x1xxxxxx and 0x2xxxxxxx
17:04:57Tornehm, i don't have the v7-m refernece manual handy at work
17:05:02Torneto remind myself what its memory mapping arrangements are
17:06:23Tornethe MPU in the M4 can alias memory regions as well as apply protection
17:06:48Tornethe details are in the v7-m ARM, unfortunately, which isn't free; the TRM for M4 only mentions the registers' existence
17:06:53pamaurythe 0x20000000-0x3fffffff range of the v7-M is the SRAM I think
17:07:35pamaurythe range below would be ROM
17:09:36Tornethe first meg at 0x20000000 is the arcane and bizarre bit band region, also :)
17:09:59pamaurywhat is this ?
17:10:13Torneit's very unlikely to be relevant
17:10:19Tornebut it is super weird and kinda cool.
17:10:36Tornethe 1MB at 0x20000000 is aliased to the 32MB at 0x22000000 - except the large alias accesses single bits
17:10:46Tornei.e. you can ldr and str at the 32MB region and it accesses single bits at the 1MB region
17:10:59Tornesuch that you can toggle bits in SRAM individually for free
17:11:31Tornelikewise at 0x40000000 and 0x42000000, fo rperipherals
17:11:31pamauryoh, that's super bizarre :)
17:12:25Tornebut also awesome
17:12:34Tornethough, more useful in the peripheral regino than in the SRAM region
17:13:56Torneit's unlikely to be relevant to this reverse engineering. since this chip really does seem to be a Cortex-M, though, knowing this might come in handy later on in the process :p
17:14:11pamaurythe imx has four registers for each actual register: the register itself and the set/clr/toggle ones. So you can set and clr bits for free too
17:14:24Tornebut not read them
17:14:43pamauryno, but the v7-M have special instruction to extract bitfield iirc
17:15:20Torneit's just weird that the bus controller handles read-modify-write for you :)
17:16:09pamauryI wonder if this binary blob doesn't have relocation
17:16:26pamaurybecause between actual code, there seem to be...something, which is not code
17:16:37pamauryit might be data of course
17:17:02Tornebetween where?
17:17:09Torneyou mean between the big sections identified by the header?
17:17:39pamaurytake for example the first one: it starts at 0xf14. It seems that at 0x7530 something else begin (after a bx lr)
17:18:03pamauryand then there is something until a new place identified in the header. It doesn't start with a push though but looks like valid code
17:18:12Torneyah. well, it doesn't have to start with a push
17:18:21Tornefunctions don't have to :)
17:19:24pamauryI would need a tool to trace the reference in the code, it might be data pool
17:20:17Tornefrom the small look i had, there appeared to just be constants between functions
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17:20:35Tornei.e. typical dumb compiler literal pool dumping strateguy
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17:21:23pamauryone question then: why is the range 0xf14-next header address kind of split into two subparts ?
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17:22:15Tornein my experience people's proprietary toolchains sure do like to produce overly complicated binaries :)
17:22:32Torneless aggressive about just collapsing sections together than our linker script :p
17:22:49pamauryyeah, I've seen this with the imx233
17:22:58pamaurythough 107 sections seems a lot
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17:23:34Tornepossibly they are object files
17:23:44Torneor sections-within-object-files
17:23:54pamauryobject files is likely
17:23:57Tornei.e. .text and .data from different .o's being listed separately
17:24:18Torne...there wouldn't happen to be a string table somewhere in the binary with a bunch of names :)
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17:24:26Tornethat might be being pointed to in some form by the header? :)
17:24:37TorneProbably not, but if so that would be super helpful :p
17:24:46Tornepeople accidentally leaving "documentation" in their bianries is great.
17:25:48pamaurythere are a few strings
17:25:57pamaurybut not too many
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17:26:31pamauryhere is what my super tool find:
17:27:43Torneprobably not, but that would've been nice ;)
17:27:59pamauryand there are not grouped
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17:38:33pamauryit looks like a .data section
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17:47:11pamauryI think my interpretation is wrong
17:47:36pamauryeach entry *might* be 4 word long
17:48:17pamauryor each contains a code,data pair
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17:52:29TorneEach being code and data makes sense
17:52:37Torneexplains the different address ranges
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17:53:00Torneand then presumably from, say, 53 object files
17:53:23pamauryI'll give you the new mapping in a minute, much more consistent
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17:59:28pamaurythe last one look weird
17:59:35pamauryperhaps some call/jump protocol
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18:02:54Tornedo the ranges actually line up?
18:02:56Tornesome of them appear to overlap
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18:03:11pamauryI haven't checked
18:03:21pamaurythey do not appaear to be in order
18:03:31Tornesome of them definitely look like they verlap in this interpretation
18:04:06pamauryThis is not necessarily bad, I've seen imx files which load/call/load/call and they overlap each other
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18:04:38pamauryoops, I made a mistake, sorry, the 0x40000 shouldn't exist
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18:09:55pamauryTorne: I have fixed it:
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19:02:26pamauryRAThomas: Torne: that's interesting. Only the stage3 of the RknanoFW files seem to have this format. The stage0-2 use a different one or are just raw code
19:03:19pamauryI *think* the first "Something" is the number of sections
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19:44:08alchemyxthunderi know the release isn't public, nor is it officially supported, but is there a way to determine the version or revision number of rockbox in the ipodclassic file? my ipod is currently reporting: 26e5e60-120502 under rockbox info. thank you.
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19:45:38gevaertsalchemyxthunder: 26e5e60 is the revision, 120502 is the build date
19:46:24alchemyxthundergevaerts: referring to 2012-may-02?
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19:47:19alchemyxthunderand with that said, is there a way to determine if the file located at is more current?
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19:47:56alchemyxthunderwithout reinstalling rockbox onto the device, of course.
19:48:14n1salchemyxthunder: it definitely should be, look inside the rockbox-info.txt file in the zip
19:48:23gevaertsIt is. That's built on every commit
19:49:26alchemyxthundern1s: i don't know how i missed that line. -_-
19:50:12alchemyxthunderone more dumb question, is there a changelog for it?
19:50:52n1sthere's git log and a MajorChanges page in the wiki
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19:51:56hillshumalchemyxthunder: The current build is usually updated multiple times a day
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19:52:45alchemyxthundergood information to know! thank you guys!
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20:02:43AlexPhillshum: dev build now
20:03:10*hillshum hillshum has been away for too long
20:03:26AlexPTo try to not confuse people as much :)
20:03:52*hillshum actually does recall reading something on the mailing list about this
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20:26:56GodEateris anyone ever going to write a summary from this years DevCon?
20:28:02GodEaterbeyond "pizza was eaten, beer was drunk, stuff was done, other stuff was discussed"
20:28:07GodEaterwhich I can sort of infer
20:34:24bertrikI thought gevaerts kept notes
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20:45:12*gevaerts has some notes and plans to go through the recording
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21:24:29bertrikGodEater, got any particular devcon subject you want to know about? I can try to remember the discussion :)
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21:26:19bertrikWe discussed all "ideas for discussion" and most of them ended in "eh, bluebrother, please go ahead and implement" :)
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21:46:36megal0maniacCould someone who is able to, please check my wiki profile? I'm still getting "Access denied" pages.
21:46:41megal0maniacUN is MichaelRodger
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21:49:35RAThomasmegal0maniac: me too.
21:50:51megal0maniacDammit. Also, I'm getting "RockboxUtility.exe has stopped working" while patching Fuze+ firmware with bootloader. Latest firmware version, latest RB Util
21:52:19megal0maniacIs there a debug mode or log to see what is causing it? I suspect sbloader for obvious reasons, but not sure how to confirm
21:52:35megal0maniacmkimxboot, not sbloader
21:57:15funmanmegal0maniac: the debug mode is build it from source and run it in gdb
22:00:20 Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;))
22:02:42megal0maniacAh... Windows :P
22:02:58megal0maniacThanks though, still good to know
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22:09:01megal0maniacOh wow... Please ignore the Rockbox Util issue. It works fine. I'm the bug. The wiki issue, however... (and I can't post to WikiIssues because I can't edit)
22:10:34funman you are alreayd in the group
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22:13:03megal0maniacfunman: I know, but I still get Access Denied
22:13:13megal0maniacCredentials are correct
22:13:28funmanlogout and log in again?
22:14:18megal0maniacTried that, cleared cache as well. Was added to the group this past Saturday, have yet been able to get on though.
22:14:42megal0maniacAction "CHANGE": access not allowed on web.
22:14:50funmanmust ask the wiki admins then but i don't see Zagor online
22:15:19megal0maniacI mailed Bjorn on Saturday, but haven't heard from him yet.
22:18:15megal0maniacI have a feeling that the email address is no longer in use, though.
22:18:52gevaertsmegal0maniac: which one?
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22:19:10gevaertsThat's very much his current email address
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22:20:06megal0maniacFigured it might not be, due to it being very visible to spam robots on the wiki. Will try again.
22:20:36Tornereal email addresses last forever :)
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22:51:44megal0maniacAnyone know off-hand why recording is not implemented on the Fuze+?
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22:55:47saratogaits a new port and hasn't been done yet
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23:06:30saratogawhats the git command to see a diff of my current tree verses the rockbox git server? git diff is just the stuff since my last commit right?
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23:09:02Tornegit diff origin/master will compare the work tree to whatever you last downloaded from the server
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