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#rockbox log for 2012-06-19

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02:20:07scpphi, I have some problems with unbricking sansa clip plus
02:20:14scppcan anyone help?
02:24:01 Quit eckoit (Quit: eckoit)
02:25:30scppthe problem is, that when I try to connect clip shorting recovery pins, mp3 player displays "sansa" then logo of sandisk and then it just freezes
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02:26:31scppwhen I try "fdisk -l" it shows only my harddrive
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02:33:22amayernot too familiar with rockbox(im installing it tonight) but what type of device are you connecting?
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02:37:09sccpit's clip plus
02:38:01sccpwell if You're not too familiar, I guess You won't help me with unbricking :)
02:38:48saratogaif you short out the memory, it won't load the sandisk software at all
02:39:15saratogaso you'll get a blank screen
02:39:55sccpI should get blank screen?
02:40:43sccpI have black screen when I'm not shorting those pins
02:41:27sccpand when I connect clip without shorting, I get Disk /dev/sdb: 32 MB on fdisk
02:42:35saratogaif you're randomly getting and losing the sandisk software, its probably a lose solder or something like that
02:43:44saratogais just pushing on the flash memory or cpu enough to get it to partially boot?
02:45:35amayer@sccp yeah sorry i couldnt help. i thought you were trying to format it or something.
02:45:41amayerhope you figure it out
02:45:55sccpwhen I push mem and cpu, mp3 says Loading firmware file not found
02:46:33saratogathat means the .rockbox folder is missing or corrupt
02:46:52saratogai guess it won't boot without pressure on them?
02:47:12sccpI was just writing that :)
02:47:34sccpit just doesn't react if I do'n push
02:47:53saratogawell fixing that is probably hard
02:48:21sccpI see...
02:48:57saratogagoogle turns up that
02:49:03saratogano idea what will happen if you try :)
02:49:34saratogai guess you could try and take it back to sandisk, but i don't know how long their warranty's last
02:50:13sccpI heard about toasting PC video cards
02:50:29sccpand some says it really works
02:50:50sccpbut I'm not sure about capacitors
02:51:02saratogai guess if you put a weight on it so that its working and heat it enough it'll resolder but yeah the caps are not likely to be happy about that
02:52:02sccpgot nothing to lose
02:52:14saratogais it the memory chip or the cpu that needs pressure?
02:52:42saratogaIIRC the memory isn't BGA, so you might be able to fix that with a very sharp solder tip and a steady hand
02:53:03sccpwait a sec
02:53:51sccpdon't know which one is cpu?
02:53:58saratogathe more square one
02:54:17sccpok so the mem needs pressure
02:54:31saratogayou can see the solder points right? maybe one of them looks lose
02:55:33saratogathats maybe a 500 micron pitch, or even less, so you'll need a very sharp soldering iron to do that
02:57:10sccpI don't see any loose solder points
02:57:33sccpbut there are some (at least one)
02:58:04sccpI don't think my arm is steady enoguh : D
02:59:18sccpok, thank You for Your time and advices :)
02:59:43sccpI'll see if there is something I can do, now at least I know what it is
03:03:56saratogai guess maybe you could try and touch several pins while applying pressure with a hot, solderless tip
03:04:03saratogajust resolder whats already there
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09:27:15wodzAbout 'soldering' discussion from 3AM - the memory is standard 0.5mm pitch and is relatively easy to resolder. The soldering iron tip should not be too sharp as heat transfer is poor then. Good 'no-clean' flux is a must.
09:28:35wodzToasting whole board is pointless. Caps are not really a problem as usually this are solid state in such designs but all plastic parts will melt.
09:29:51wodzOne may try to use hot air 'gun' to resolder BGA chip but I bet headphone socket will suffer.
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10:26:04[Saint]I *hate* convttf!
10:26:44[Saint]recipe to make an 18px 12pt font with sane ascent/descent: "./convttf.exe -d -p 22 -Ta 2 -Td -2 GNU-Unifont.ttf
10:28:19[Saint]its interesting to note that those ascent/descent adjustments are just to center the font and passing "-p 22" (which is supposed to be "force the outpout to this height in pixels") actually produces an 18px high font
10:28:45wodzjust fix it then :-)
10:28:47[Saint]"-p 16" produces a 13px high font, etc.
10:30:10[Saint]There's no standard amount of deviation you can account for, either. Each font and font height combination produces a repeatable output, but there doesn't seem to be any pattern in the amount of px it decides to shave or add from the output height.
10:30:44[Saint]wodz: If I knew how, I would've fixed it ages ago when it was first introduced and only slightly broken :)
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10:33:17[Saint]Ohhhh...shit. There's no bold/regular/light sets for GNU Unifont, so I am lessening the amount of fonts in my theme by a factor of 2 or 3 dedending on the theme port, but each front I am replacing is larger than the original by a factor of 10 at least.
10:34:00[Saint]18-GNU-Unifont.fnt == 7092KB
10:34:32[Saint]24-GNU-Unifont.fnt == 15098KB
10:35:32[Saint]lucky this theme data is sitting on the sdcard at the present stage.
10:36:38[Saint]The 240x320 theme+fonts is going to work out at around 25MB
10:38:41 Join bieber [0] (~quassel@
10:38:44[Saint]the real killer is the fonts, GNU Unifont is just huge but I need it for its extensive character support. I want switching languages to "just work". No one likes switching languages and then not being able to navigate out of it because all translated strings turn into blank spaces, random garbage chars, or identical square boxes.
10:40:34 Quit Totalled (Quit: iTunes killed my iPod. ._.)
10:40:55[Saint]And each theme uses at least three fonts, the largest of which (at present) is 48px/~40pt which after conversion is going to be around ~20MB
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10:54:25wodzbut I guess runtime impact is much less - we load only glyphs on request don't we?
10:55:36[Saint]Oh yes, certainly. And I can limit the amount of chars that get buffered too (whish, now with *sooooooo* many glyphs, seems a good idea)
10:55:43[Saint]*which now
10:57:20[Saint]Its just the sheer size of these fonts that bothers me. I think that a default theme that "just works" wrt: language/localization is a very important thing, but the size this theme is becomming is getting worrying.
10:57:35wodzwho cares about 30MB on card
10:58:18wodzon modernish daps 30MB is about the size of firmware with all f*** resources
10:59:30[Saint]Its the total .apk size that bothers me.
11:00:12[Saint]Its large enough to make some devices want to install it to the /sdcard/.asec folder, and if it does so, widgets can't work.
11:01:18 Quit mgottschlag (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
11:03:11[Saint]Might have to think about only supporting EN-UK by default and making the GNU Unifont pack available as an additional download (with a modified theme .cfg to automagically set the userfont to GNU Unifont so a non-English speaker doesn't have to bumble through an un-readable menu to change the language)
11:07:38*gevaerts thinks this is all a bit speculative
11:08:06gevaertsI think for large LCD on RaaA we should really try to use the platform's font rendering
11:08:29gevaertsBitmap fonts are fine for small fonts, but if you need size 70, they get ridiculous
11:16:20wodzgevaerts: agreed but noone is willing to do the job
11:17:18wodzwe decided last year that ultimately we would like to see rb as lib with native UI as RaaA
11:18:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:21:56wodzgevaerts: btw. as a Makefile guy could you look at the problem with building sim with −−sdl-threads? The problem is linking order - libfirmware.a needs to be specified after librbcodec.a in final link
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11:26:30[Saint]gevaerts: I agree...but, as wodz said, and...until then, I feel this is a gap that needs to be filled and I seem to be the only one that wants to or is prepared to fill it.
11:26:36gevaertswodz: I tend to use -Wl,−−start-group and -Wl,−−end-group as Torne suggested. IIRC someone said this might break on OSX, but we won't know unless we try...
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11:27:30[Saint]the initial work kugel did for RaaA themes is great, but, its not /great/ great.
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11:28:15gevaerts[Saint]: sure, using bitmap fonts *now* is obviously the right thing to do
11:28:24*[Saint] nods
11:28:59[Saint]I could save quite a lot of space if I could replace all theme massive bitmap images with PNG
11:30:32wodz[Saint]: no problem we give green light for integrating png support in core - you CAN do this
11:31:12[Saint]and, fwiw, the bitmap fonts for Ubuntu.ttf that I converted are actually a very sane size (between 200~700KB), its just GNU Unifont thats creeping up into the double digit MBs
11:32:53 Part tallica ("WeeChat 0.3.7")
11:41:41webmindZagor, any updates?
11:43:21[Saint]webmind: you are SebastianStellingwerff, yes?
11:45:27[Saint]The wiki is a little sick at the moment, I can only try to force you in there.
11:45:40[Saint]gimme a sec
11:47:02webmindok, gottago though, exam
11:48:00[Saint]webmind: SebastianStellingwerff added to wikiusersgroup.
11:48:09[Saint]Do you have time to test it quickly now?
11:58:55wodzgevaerts: maybe put patch on gerrit so OSX guys could try?
11:59:46Zagor[Saint]: thanks, I'm a bit choked at work
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12:53:50Tornegevaerts: it only breaks on OSX because that's already the behaviour of (some version of) the linker, though, so it shoul dbe fine to just not include it on OSX.
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14:09:17webmind[Saint], works! thanks.
14:09:41[Saint]webmind: Not a problem.
14:10:26[Saint]And, as I usually like to do; Welcome, don't break our wiki (even more than it already is) ;-)
14:18:08webmindI'll try :)
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14:28:10gevaertswebmind: I think that f is wrong there :)
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14:31:32webmindgevaerts, damnit
14:31:47webmindgevaerts, hence I was looking at fonts for dyslectics
14:32:43Zagorwebmind: you can rename the page. see "more topic actions"
15:02:01*[Saint] is busy making nice GNU Unifont antialiased .fnt fonts
15:02:37[Saint]also documenting the advanced convttf f***ery needed for each font
15:03:21webmindwell, if you're making fonts.. you could try and make an GNU dyslexic font :)
15:03:55[Saint]what, add a flag to convttf that randomly orders the glyphs on conversion? ;)
15:07:06[Saint]I'm sure if I generated enough fonts with randomly ordered glyphs, eventually, I'd end up with one that ordered them precisely in the right order for a dyslexic to subconsciously reshuffle them to form the correct order ;)
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15:07:22[Saint](Disclaimer: May not be true)
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15:18:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:39:09pamaurythe rknano firmware files are damn complicated, files in files in files!!
15:42:36CIA-47Commit d6bbe39 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: rknanoutils: more reverse engineering of the BOOT format.
15:44:49CIA-47d6bbe39 build result: All green
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16:38:15[Saint]check out the level of advanced f***ery needed to produce a nice, consistently scaled font set using confttv:
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17:17:41[Saint]"36 GNU Unifont.fnt" == 32.35MB
17:18:18[Saint]"36 Ubuntu [Regular].fnt" == 717KB
17:18:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:47:47bug2000Q: Is there an hold option for ClipZip?
17:48:58 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
17:58:09bug2000megal0maniac, Thank you.
17:58:25megal0maniacRTM ;)
18:00:36bug2000megal0maniac, I'm really short on time. I mean ~15 minutes of internet access 'till who knows XD
18:00:56bug2000megal0maniac, Off I go now. Hopefully when I'll have a bit more time I'll finally report that fuze bug.
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18:54:14wodzpamaury: I see quite a bit of analogy with rk27xx update format. Not in details but in general concept. If the first image contained in BOOT section is very tiny I bet it will be dram initialization, another image would be actual nand bootloader and another one bootloader updater image
18:55:59pamaurythe big file contains two part: loader and updater. The loaders contains three part: unknown, NandBoot1/2. The updater contains the resources and the stages (0->2 look like plain code, 3 uses the same format (apparently) as the one in loader)
18:56:26pamauryof course this is only based on RE and I have no code to study for the executable format itself
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18:56:45wodzin rk27xx updates this all images are packed into single file (Rock27Boot.bin) which in turn can be packed inside HUGE update RKW
18:57:30 Quit Mir (Remote host closed the connection)
18:58:33wodzok how does it look NandBoot1 image
18:59:26pamauryapparently uses the same format as stage3: *something* and then code. The something *could* be like the sb file format, a list of "load xxx at yyy"
18:59:45pamauryI can send you a file if you want, you can try the tool yourself
18:59:56wodzmaybe next week
19:00:26wodzI don't have time to start poking seriously now
19:01:08pamauryok, have you see something similar to what I describe in rk files ? (load xxx at yyy)
19:03:05wodzimages are loaded at fixed addresses
19:03:19pamauryah, also the files in the loader are scambled, with the same procedure as rk27xx. That was a plain guess but it seems to produce something sensible
19:05:48pamauryfor now I don't really understand what the dll I have really does. It seems that the rknano has a recovery mode which allows to write the nand but the code does lots of things so perhaps the "on-nand" format is tricky
19:06:18pamauryand it's all in C++ with MFC so really hard to understand
19:07:29pamaurythe rknano seems to be using an armv7-M, it only uses thumb2 code afaict
19:10:18wodzpamaury: If they use inhome format you may take a look at android source released by archos for rk28xx. This is the only 'open' material about rockchip FTL
19:10:52wodzit differs from the one used in rk27xx but I can see many design similarities
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19:11:11pamauryfirst I would like to understand the executable format, I don't know if there is any open/avail toolchain available, perhaps the rknano has some similarity with thr rk28xx
19:12:38 Quit Zagor (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
19:13:16wodzpamaury: do you have DS for rk28xx?
19:13:31pamaurydon't think so
19:13:38wodzI can send you one
19:14:25pamauryhmm, I have one, 308 pages
19:14:58pamaurydo you have a link to the android source you mention ?
19:15:14wodzno, but I have the sources
19:15:55pamaurycan you upload them ? or send them to me ? No sure if I will finbd something but we never know
19:17:43wodzok, I'll share this sources somehow but now real life (tm) is calling :/
19:17:51pamauryhmm wait, I think I found it on the archos website
19:18:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:19:01wodzI saw two versions of linux sources for rk devices - one with plain source of ftl and the other with binary blobs
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19:24:31pamaurythe are gitourious repo for the archos gen 6-9 kernels, but I don't know which one is the rk28xx and what mach-* plat-* it is
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19:40:38CIA-47Commit d72f4d2 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: (Author: Marek Salaba) FS #12701 - June update of Czech language
19:42:31CIA-47d72f4d2 build result: 0 errors, 8 warnings (Marek Salaba committed)
19:44:05*bertrik wonders why only 8 build machines complain "apps/lang/czech.lang:12395:1: warning: empty dest before line in non-deprecated phrase!"
19:47:30bertrikit is a bit odd that the phrase is now empty while it did have a translation before
19:48:37bertrikI'm going to assume to the intention was to add more targets for that phrase and that the translation remains the same
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19:52:39bertrikDoes mkzenboot compile for anyone? (I'm just typing 'make' in tools/)
19:54:37pamaurybertrik: yes
19:55:32bertrikI have the package zlib1g-dev installed
19:58:39CIA-47Commit 1ccc658 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: Fix Czech phrase for LANG_DEPTH_3D (assume the translation didn't change, only the targets)
20:00:40CIA-471ccc658 build result: All green
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20:01:39bertrikpamaury, do you know which package you have installed to handle -lz ?
20:02:13pamaurywill check, probably zlib
20:02:43pamauryzlib1g-dev precisely
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20:04:51bertrikit appears to be some kind of link order problem, appending -lz fixes it
20:05:30 Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
20:07:34funmanyes, link order
20:07:45bertrikMy gcc is gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3
20:07:50funmanif foo.o uses zlib, -lz must appear after foo.o in cmd line
20:07:56funman(with newer ubuntu and/or gcc)
20:09:51 Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...)
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20:10:58bertrikseveral other tools suffer from this too
20:11:40*bertrik will try to fix
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20:15:08CIA-47Commit eb652b0 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: Fix link order of mkzenboot and usb_benchmark to make them compile with gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3
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20:17:00CIA-47eb652b0 build result: All green
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20:24:27AlexPgevaerts: You'll be glad to know that I have something else for your list :)
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20:37:08AlexPgevaerts: You can draw to the backdrop by adding %VB to a viewport declaration which is useful for e.g. album art so you draw e.g. a volume splash over it - but it never bloody updates
20:37:20AlexPIt seems to be a refresh on track change would be reasonable
20:38:01AlexP(disclaimer - I haven't tried this on trunk (git equivalent) - I'm using kugel's branch atm for the android status bar
20:38:45Zagorok, tonights public rockbox hangout is now started:
20:38:49gevaertswavy does that. I'm not sure if I've ever changed AA with the wps showing though
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20:39:22ZagorAlexP: yeah. i figured if we're gonna sit there all night it doesn't matter much when it starts
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20:42:44gevaertsAlexP: does this only not happen for regular track changes, or also for skipping?
20:42:57AlexPgevaerts: I'll try
20:43:28 Quit bitcraft (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
20:43:41Zagorok, public hangout was a bad idea. lots of random people connecting.
20:44:14AlexPdisconnect, new one?
20:44:36AlexPI wonder why people do?
20:44:43AlexPgevaerts: Doesn't update on skip either
20:44:51AlexPgevaerts: But I should try trunk
20:45:00AlexPIt might be kugel's fault :)
20:45:02gevaertsThat would be useful as well
20:45:13Zagornew restricted hangout:
20:45:16gevaertsHow recent is that branch?
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20:46:49AlexPgevaerts: He pushed stuff to it recently, but I'm not sure when it was last synched
20:47:14 Quit B4gder (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
20:49:18AlexPgevaerts: kugel-/rockbox/tree/dynamic_lcd">
20:53:33[Saint]did you actually build from that branch, or just cherry-pick the show status bar bit?
20:54:04AlexPIt seems to be up-to-date as of a week or so ago
20:55:20[Saint]I thought you would've just cherry-picked the needed bits, iirc the dynamic_lcd changes produce a fairly large binary compared to HEAD
20:55:52[Saint]...meh, 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other, etc.
20:56:33AlexPCouldn't give a monkeys about the size of the binary
20:56:44AlexPNot now I have a posh new phone :)
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21:18:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:27:19CIA-47Commit bc657b5 in rockbox by Bertrik Sikken: brickmania: adapt to 96x96 screen of sansa clip zip
21:28:13CIA-47Commit 3d0c787 in rockbox by Frank Gevaerts: Change display_zoom from int to double.
21:29:26CIA-47bc657b5 build result: All green
21:31:45CIA-473d0c787 build result: 5 errors, 0 warnings (Frank Gevaerts committed)
21:31:59*gevaerts disagrees!
21:32:11CIA-47Commit f8eb8c8 in rockbox by Dominik Riebeling: Filter LaTeX output for errors.
21:33:59gevaertsThat's a fun error. Apparently you can't add a double to a pointer
21:34:10*gevaerts wants rational addressing!
21:34:31CIA-47f8eb8c8 build result: 5 errors, 0 warnings (Dominik Riebeling committed)
21:35:56AlexPgevaerts: Don't worry, it is bluebrother's fault now
21:36:09gevaertsGood point :)
21:37:02*bluebrother disagrees!
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21:41:51gevaertsHas anyone tried the Player sim since November?
21:43:17bluebrotherwell, yes and no :)
21:43:28bluebrotherI tried that some time ago. Crashed. Stopped trying it :)
21:48:25gevaertsI'm tracking it down now
21:48:35gevaertsI can't test the fix for that red otherwise :)
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21:54:25CIA-47Commit 21ddcbe in rockbox by Frank Gevaerts: CHARCELL doesn't have sbs support, so disable it properly.
21:57:07CIA-4721ddcbe build result: 5 errors, 0 warnings (Frank Gevaerts committed)
21:57:33CIA-47Commit 1a665aa in rockbox by Frank Gevaerts: Fix non-integer display_zoom for charcell.
21:59:07gevaertsAlexP: have you managed to try trunk yet?
21:59:20AlexPgevaerts: I will do now, one mo
22:00:05CIA-471a665aa build result: All green
22:02:03AlexPgevaerts: Doesn't seem to work on HEAD either
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22:03:13CIA-47Commit 7151111 in rockbox by Frank Gevaerts: Make touchscreen handling work with skinned lists.
22:03:32AlexPIt works (i.e. updates) when you go wps-menu-wps but not when skipping tracks in the wps
22:03:57*gevaerts nods
22:04:42AlexPor on standard track change
22:06:03CIA-477151111 build result: All green
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22:21:10*gevaerts "enjoys" the disconnect between old assumptions and new realities in the list display code
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22:45:17andaiSo... every time I plug in my iPod... it shows up grey
22:45:23andaii have this sometimes and i don't know why
22:45:45andaiLike... the icon is 50% transparent, and when double clicked alerts "Please insert a disk"
22:46:37AlexPWhat shows up grey, what OS etc etc.
22:46:39*bluebrother wonders what a grey ipod is supposed to be
22:47:21andaiWindows 7! The icon is 50% transparent ( black iPod icon, shows up on white Explorer background as gray )
22:47:29andaiI had the same thing on Vista at my friend's house
22:47:48andaisometimes it appears and disappears several times, then works, sometimes it keeps cycling. At the moment it's stable in its unusable form
22:48:12andaioh, at the moment the iPod doesn't even recognize that it's connected
22:50:11gevaertsWhich ipod model is this?
22:50:25andaimight just be my computer / mobo... some USB ports are ... unreliable
22:51:04AlexPAnd are you using Rockbox USB, or Apple
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22:55:09CIA-47Commit 906963a in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: rknanoutils: much more sensible format guess
22:55:10andai1AlexP: I'm plugging it in!
22:55:22AlexPandai1: In ROckbox!
22:55:26AlexPOr in Apple!
22:55:28andai1AlexP: I don't think the apple mobile device service even recognizes it anymore! it doesn't show up
22:55:50andai1AlexP: ? is this some kind of setting i can configure
22:56:10AlexPAre you running Rockbox or the Apple firmware when you plug it in?
22:56:44andai1AlexP Rockbox
22:56:59AlexPSo in that case any Apple service won't be doing anything with it
22:57:01andai1AlexP I think it erased the apple firmware. At any rate it's not in the options anymore :P
22:57:08AlexPWhat options?
22:57:19AlexPWhat ipod is this?
22:57:25 Quit andai (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
22:57:28andai1AlexP: I thought that on slightly more supported devices you can choose if you want to boot the apple firmware, or Rockbox
22:57:31andai1iPod Classic 160GB
22:57:37andai1the new one
22:58:12andai1have this for a few months now. It wasn't really supported when I got it, but the install worked and you can't beat being able to download torrents straight onto your iPod :D
22:58:29andai1[ that's kind of the only feature I can really show off about i think ]
22:58:34andai1oh right, and OGG support :D
22:59:21CIA-47906963a build result: All green
22:59:32 Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend)
23:00:04 Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:00:18andai1if i plug it in and then turn it on, it recognizes is as the emCORE... oh...
23:00:35andai1it fails to install drivers for the emCORE debugger, then a few seconds later.. it shows up!
23:00:58andai1[ i.e. problem solved: You need to plug it in, THEN turn it on ]
23:01:43CIA-47Commit f620093 in rockbox by Amaury Pouly: rknanoutils: fix crash with no prefix, remove debug code
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23:02:10andaiis this normal/true, or just a peculiarity of my configuration?
23:04:46*bluebrother wonders when Rockbox started to support downloading torrent files
23:05:07 Quit andai1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
23:05:23CIA-47f620093 build result: All green
23:05:42 Quit dfkt (Quit: -= SysReset 2.55=- Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.)
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23:18:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:26:12[7]bluebrother: in-application live streaming of torrents? :P
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