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| 00:36:41 | amayer | Has anyone in here installed rockbox on an IPod Classic? |
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| 02:36:51 | [Saint] | How do people feel about the touchscreen cabbiev2's ffwd/rwd/next/prev buttons remaining grey unless touched and only then becomminh yellow? |
| 02:36:59 | [Saint] | *becomming |
| 02:37:09 | [Saint] | bah! |
| 02:39:37 | [Saint] | Hmmmm....the sim isn't displaying my backdrop |
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| 03:00 |
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| 03:07:51 | [Saint] | JdGordon: kugel: a CCCCCC−−>000000 gradient drawn by the theme engine as a backdrop |
| 03:07:52 | [Saint] | <a target="_blank" href="http://imgur.com/88kus">http://imgur.com/88kusa> |
| 03:08:17 | [Saint] | (ignore the black around the icons, I just butchered a theme to show you guys this) |
| 03:10:31 | * | [Saint] remembers gevaerts might also want to see this |
| 03:11:16 | JdGordon | got a comparisson shot from the bmp? |
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| 03:50:56 | sqwishy | Before installing rockbox, windows did not assign a drive letter to my player, so while I thought I was moving the rockbox files to the root of the device, they were being placed in ##MUSIC# or something. |
| 03:51:24 | sqwishy | Windows mounted the device properly after the bootloader was in place and I installed rockbox properly. |
| 03:52:19 | sqwishy | But, for future reference. Does anyone know how I could avoid this problem and have windows mount the player as a storage device? (Without using the automatic installer) |
| 03:52:39 | JdGordon | sounds like you've got the device in MTP modew |
| 03:53:07 | sqwishy | Yeah |
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| 03:59:00 | sqwishy | JdGordon: Thanks for the tip |
| 03:59:02 | sqwishy | <3 |
| 03:59:04 | | Part sqwishy |
| 04:00 |
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| 04:04:46 | [Saint] | JdGordon: Here's a side-by-side - <a target="_blank" href="http://imgur.com/a/sNa98">http://imgur.com/a/sNa98a> |
| 04:05:02 | [Saint] | (also: kugel, gevaerts ^) |
| 04:06:42 | | Quit TheSphinX^ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 04:06:59 | [Saint] | They're both CCCCCC−−>000000 gradients, but, to get the same effect out of the skin engine it looks like I'll need to select a *much* darker color than CCCCCC |
| 04:07:17 | | Quit jfc (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 04:07:40 | [Saint] | ...and have "Mr. Someone" fix the obvious color banding :-) |
| 04:09:30 | [Saint] | Anyway, yeah...that's a side-by-side (actually a top-and-bottom? ;) ) showing a bitmap backdrop (rather obviously) on the top, and a gradient drawn by the theme engine on the bottom. |
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| 04:10:46 | [Saint] | (it also gives one a chance to compare GNU Unifont vs Ubuntu...I think there's a clear winner there) |
| 04:14:18 | JdGordon | [Saint]: hmm... ok, are you sure you've got the graident tag/viewport sized correctly? |
| 04:14:26 | JdGordon | I really wouldnt have expected a huge difference |
| 04:14:57 | [Saint] | its just %V(0,0,-,-,-) |
| 04:15:46 | [Saint] | I kinda saw it coming looking at the status bar, but, I really wanted it to "just work" so I tried anyway. |
| 04:15:53 | [Saint] | No loss, no foul. |
| 04:16:26 | JdGordon | status bar? |
| 04:16:44 | [Saint] | errr....sorry, line selector |
| 04:17:16 | JdGordon | ok, so our gradient logic is completly broken :) |
| 04:17:46 | [Saint] | Torne and kugel came to the conclusion it was a lack of dithering (possibly among other things) |
| 04:18:05 | JdGordon | that grey isnt cccccc is it? |
| 04:18:14 | [Saint] | Apparently, yes. |
| 04:18:45 | [Saint] | Oh, do you mean my backdrop, or the skin engine? |
| 04:19:00 | JdGordon | err... |
| 04:19:11 | JdGordon | i dont really see how they could be doing the same gradient start->end |
| 04:19:19 | JdGordon | the backdrop is much darker |
| 04:20:07 | [Saint] | my backdrop is CCCCCC, with a 000000+transparency gradient drawn over it. |
| 04:20:35 | [Saint] | Its probably just positioned a little higher. |
| 04:24:06 | JdGordon | whats the trancparency griadient? |
| 04:24:22 | [Saint] | ...buh? |
| 04:25:07 | JdGordon | 12:20 <[Saint]> my backdrop is CCCCCC, with a 000000+transparency gradient drawn over it. |
| 04:26:51 | [Saint] | I mean, I started with a plain CCCCCC 240x320 bitmap, and then I created a 000000+transparent gradient and positioned that to my liking overtop of the CCCCCC image. |
| 04:27:22 | [Saint] | as I needed approximately the entire bottom third of the image to be pure 000000 |
| 04:27:53 | JdGordon | so they arent a 1:1 comparisson |
| 04:28:27 | JdGordon | make the graidnet viewport only use the top 2/3 of th screen and try again |
| 04:28:53 | [Saint] | Well, not exactly, no...but its still pretty bloody obvious that there's horrible banding and no dithering :) |
| 04:29:07 | * | JdGordon doesnt know hat they are, but sure |
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| 06:07:15 | Guardian452|bob | what is the fuction of the contents of the ##PORT## folder on my sansa clip |
| 06:07:35 | Guardian452|bob | theres a relatively large 190MB file in there I would like to kill |
| 06:07:42 | JdGordon | ignore it... its a sansa folder, notihng we use |
| 06:07:52 | Guardian452|bob | so I can safely kill it |
| 06:08:00 | Guardian452|bob | I dont plan on booting into the crapy old firmware |
| 06:08:04 | JdGordon | yep |
| 06:09:14 | Guardian452|bob | rockbox is awesome It fixed my dieing clip |
| 06:09:16 | Guardian452|bob | :3 |
| 06:10:18 | Guardian452|bob | also is there a way to make the clip+ display in a single color |
| 06:10:22 | Guardian452|bob | the orange band is annoying |
| 06:10:41 | | Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@capitalthree.pwnz.org) |
| 06:11:39 | JdGordon | no |
| 06:11:57 | Guardian452|bob | bah though I could mess with the lcd voltages and make it one color |
| 06:12:02 | Guardian452|bob | meh ill buy a clip zip |
| 06:12:59 | alexbobp | clip zip ftw |
| 06:13:11 | alexbobp | it's my #1 mp3 player to buy right now |
| 06:13:53 | Guardian452|bob | yea but what are the hardware specs |
| 06:13:55 | * | Guardian452|bob googles |
| 06:17:34 | Guardian452|bob | hmm |
| 06:18:08 | Guardian452|bob | looking for a player thats relatively water restient and has 24Bit output support |
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| 06:30:24 | amayer | is there a way to set where the database load from instead of loading from root? |
| 06:30:38 | JdGordon | t |
| 06:30:44 | JdGordon | no |
| 06:31:12 | amayer | so it always loads all the files on the harddrive section of my ipod |
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| 07:29:43 | | Nick kugel is now known as kugelp (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 07:30:37 | Guardian452|bob | is there a way to reverse rockboxes boot prio |
| 07:31:03 | Guardian452|bob | like boot the sansa firmware by default and boot into rockbox by holding the left key |
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| 07:33:21 | kugelp | [Saint]: the bad background is a CCCCCC backdrop with transparent gradient? |
| 07:33:50 | [Saint] | no. |
| 07:36:19 | [Saint] | I'm not even sure how that would...oh, wait, yeah...but, no. |
| 07:36:49 | [Saint] | The "bad" backdrop is a CCCCCC->000000 gradient drawn with the theme engine. |
| 07:37:34 | [Saint] | The "good" backdrop started off life as a pure CCCCCC bitmap, and a transparent+000000 gradient was positioned overtop of it. |
| 07:38:28 | kugelp | ok I was confused |
| 07:40:27 | [Saint] | Nevermind, it happens to me all the time ;) |
| 07:40:35 | kugelp | it amazes me that the background is that wrong. the top us nearly white and the bottom is light grey at best |
| 07:41:45 | [Saint] | yes, only the bottom-most pixel is actually true black according to GIMP. |
| 07:43:32 | kugelp | that's how it would be in an ideal gradient too :-P |
| 07:45:31 | kugelp | how transparent is the overlay at the top? CCCCCC should be pretty light |
| 07:46:20 | [Saint] | its approximately 60% transparency at the top. |
| 07:47:05 | [Saint] | possible more, as I ran a blur filter over the backdrop set I made a few times as well. |
| 07:47:29 | kugelp | ah its far away from CCCCCC |
| 07:48:17 | kugelp | seleting the colors as line selector doesn't look as bad |
| 07:48:57 | kugelp | but obviously not like the backdrop either |
| 07:49:01 | [Saint] | Well, yes. The test I made was just to see how it would look. I was going to set as near as possible to the colors in the bitmap backdrops I made afterward, if it looked ok. |
| 07:49:31 | [Saint] | I wasn't going to put any serious effort into until I knew it wouldn't make anyones eyes bleed. |
| 07:49:33 | kugelp | right, the banding is a deal breaker |
| 07:49:42 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 07:50:13 | | Nick Jack87 is now known as Jack87|Away (Jack87@nasadmin/admin/jack87) |
| 07:51:45 | kugelp | I think our dithering can only work on loading files from disk currently, some possibly non-trivial changes are needed there |
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| 08:20:12 | Guardian452|bob | why is the doom game all fuzzy on the clip+ ? |
| 08:20:23 | Guardian452|bob | just cheating due to lack of power/ram ? |
| 08:25:47 | alexbobp | it's dithering |
| 08:26:02 | alexbobp | how else do you do a color game on a monochrome display? |
| 08:26:14 | alexbobp | the pixels don't even support grayscale afaik |
| 08:34:42 | | Nick kugelp is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) |
| 08:39:26 | Guardian452|bob | I would have thrown the colors out all togetor |
| 08:39:28 | Guardian452|bob | > |
| 08:39:33 | Guardian452|bob | can't even see whats going on |
| 08:39:43 | Guardian452|bob | makes it pretty well unplayable |
| 08:39:57 | [Saint_] | And, you think that would help? |
| 08:40:15 | [Saint_] | if there wasn't an attempt to convert the colours, you know what you'd see? |
| 08:40:21 | Guardian452|bob | GRAY? |
| 08:40:22 | [Saint_] | A solid blue screen. |
| 08:40:27 | [Saint_] | that's it. |
| 08:41:15 | [Saint_] | there is no "grey", its simply an optical illusion. |
| 08:41:54 | [Saint_] | The pixels are all one colour, the simply flash at different rates to create the illusion of different shades. |
| 08:42:02 | Guardian452|bob | you can either display black or /blue/orange |
| 08:42:15 | Guardian452|bob | whats the problem with that make everything blue |
| 08:42:16 | Guardian452|bob | :P |
| 08:42:27 | [Saint_] | orange is limited to the first 8(?) pixels only. |
| 08:42:32 | Guardian452|bob | so |
| 08:42:44 | Guardian452|bob | use it for the hudbar and throw everything else below |
| 08:42:45 | Guardian452|bob | :P |
| 08:42:59 | [Saint_] | Ok, go for it then. Patches welcome. |
| 08:43:18 | * | Guardian452|bob is currently in search of src |
| 08:43:40 | [Saint_] | Give us a call when you've got a patch ready. ;) |
| 08:44:15 | * | Guardian452|bob realises this is all so he can play doom on a 1in screen |
| 08:44:24 | Guardian452|bob | GLORY TO THE BFG |
| 08:44:48 | bluebrother^ | we really should remove doom |
| 08:44:55 | Guardian452|bob | WHAT |
| 08:44:56 | Guardian452|bob | -.- |
| 08:44:57 | bluebrother^ | and replace it with the lamp plugin |
| 08:45:02 | Guardian452|bob | fuck you |
| 08:45:12 | Guardian452|bob | hating on doom |
| 08:45:13 | bluebrother^ | why? |
| 08:45:14 | Guardian452|bob | the fk |
| 08:45:22 | [Saint_] | warning, Guardian452|bob |
| 08:45:30 | [Saint_] | keep it up and you can leave. |
| 08:45:31 | * | bluebrother^ prepares a patch that will remove doom |
| 08:45:44 | * | bluebrother^ prepares another patch that will rename lamp to doom |
| 08:45:48 | * | Guardian452|bob slaps bluebrother^ with the delete key |
| 08:45:54 | Guardian452|bob | you want it removed there you go |
| 08:46:07 | * | bluebrother^ prepares to hit enter for committing |
| 08:46:32 | * | bluebrother^ stops last minute. For now. |
| 08:46:33 | * | Guardian452|bob wonders the proablity of making the usb port fuction as a device |
| 08:46:46 | * | Guardian452|bob starts writing usb-ethernet drivers |
| 08:46:49 | Guardian452|bob | -.- |
| 08:47:10 | bluebrother^ | oh, you want to get USB OTG going? Nice. |
| 08:47:15 | * | bluebrother^ awaits patches |
| 08:47:30 | * | Guardian452|bob thinks its probly inpossiblerz |
| 08:47:39 | * | Guardian452|bob consults the tech papers |
| 08:48:27 | Guardian452|bob | negative ghost rider |
| 08:48:36 | Guardian452|bob | otr is anti−−possiblez |
| 08:48:40 | * | Guardian452|bob is sad |
| 08:49:16 | Guardian452|bob | the dream of running a mysql server from a 240Mhz hafaARM chip |
| 08:49:18 | Guardian452|bob | CRUSHED |
| 08:49:25 | | Join bertrik [0] (~bertrik@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 08:49:26 | Guardian452|bob | *and nothing of value was lost |
| 08:50:29 | | Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) |
| 08:51:01 | [Saint_] | You could've just asked... |
| 08:51:25 | [Saint_] | there's only like 2 or 3 targets that run Rockbox that are even capable of USB OTG |
| 08:51:47 | * | Guardian452|bob wonders why [Saint_] thought he was serious |
| 08:52:09 | * | Guardian452|bob looks at the clock and realises he has not sleept in ~19h |
| 08:52:30 | Guardian452|bob | OOOoshiettt |
| 08:52:38 | Guardian452|bob | wait just a cotton picking momento |
| 08:52:42 | [Saint_] | Oh, right. I'll try to keep in mind that I should disregard everything you say from now on. |
| 08:52:43 | Guardian452|bob | <a target="_blank" href="http://www.ams.com/eng/Products/Mobile-Entertainment/Analog-Integrated-Microcontrollers/AS3525">http://www.ams.com/eng/Products/Mobile-Entertainment/Analog-Integrated-Microcontrollers/AS3525a> |
| 08:52:45 | [Saint_] | Thanks ;) |
| 08:52:45 | Guardian452|bob | ;O |
| 08:52:53 | Guardian452|bob | 266MHz. The AS3525 features dedicated high speed interfaces for USB2.0 HS-OTG (AS3525A+B), ATA IDE and SDRAM (AS3525A only) ensuring maximum performance for download, upload, and playback. |
| 08:52:59 | Guardian452|bob | O_o |
| 08:53:06 | Guardian452|bob | O_o |
| 08:53:28 | * | Guardian452|bob has a dollor that says those pins are not even connected |
| 08:53:29 | Guardian452|bob | :( |
| 08:54:26 | Guardian452|bob | hmm anyone have a micro bga work station and a 15x microscope |
| 08:57:53 | Guardian452|bob | hmm |
| 08:58:13 | Guardian452|bob | sleep or hacking on tieny tiny chips @ 3Am |
| 08:58:14 | Guardian452|bob | hMmm |
| 08:58:37 | funman | Guardian452|bob: please try to keep discussion concise here, a lot of people read the logs and use translators |
| 08:59:09 | Guardian452|bob | their problem not mine |
| 08:59:14 | Guardian452|bob | put me on ignore |
| 08:59:15 | Guardian452|bob | -.- |
| 08:59:29 | Mode | "#rockbox +o funman" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 08:59:33 | Mode | "#rockbox +b *!*Cone@*.rochester.res.rr.com" by funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 08:59:33 | Kick | (#rockbox Guardian452|bob :sure thing) by funman!~fun@rockbox/developer/funman |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:08 | Mode | "#rockbox -o funman" by funman (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
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| 11:03:53 | gevaerts | [Saint_]: for testing that gradient, you could put in half a backdrop using %x, and half using a gradient :) |
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| 12:11:35 | funman | kugel: why do we copy rockbox.zip as a .so in rockbox.apk, instead of using resources? |
| 12:13:22 | kugel | funman: iirc resources cannot be executed (copied to some noexec folder) |
| 12:13:39 | funman | zip file needs to be executable? |
| 12:13:45 | Torne | resources are not copied at all, they're mmap'ed directly out of the apk |
| 12:13:52 | kugel | it contains plugins |
| 12:14:05 | Torne | presumably we extract them, though |
| 12:14:20 | kugel | but i don't remember the exact details anymore |
| 12:14:43 | Torne | are plugins shared objects on android, or do we just load them manually still? |
| 12:15:08 | kugel | dlopen()d shared objects |
| 12:15:24 | Torne | i would suspect the right thing to do would be to put all the shared objects into the APK directly |
| 12:15:36 | Torne | and to put all the other rockbox files into the APK as assets |
| 12:15:44 | Torne | and not have a zip at all |
| 12:16:19 | kugel | that's done for codecs now |
| 12:16:24 | kugel | but not yet plugins |
| 12:16:58 | funman | i thought the .zip was extracted on /sdcard so we can use themes, fonts etc |
| 12:17:09 | Torne | yes, but there's no actual need to do that |
| 12:17:15 | Torne | you can just open them directly from inside the apk withotu extracting them |
| 12:17:42 | funman | that requires a few changes to use java resources instead of plain unix files however no? |
| 12:18:01 | kugel | someone just needs to fix the build system :) |
| 12:18:04 | Torne | only if you want the files to be deflated |
| 12:18:27 | Torne | if you don't mind storing them in the apk uncompressed (e.g. already compressed formats already do this) you can mmap() them directly out of the apk |
| 12:19:13 | kugel | but the apk is compressed, how can you mmap stuff in it? |
| 12:19:46 | Torne | ...read what i just said again? :) |
| 12:20:28 | kugel | let me rephrase, I don't know how to mmap() files that are contained in compressed files |
| 12:20:40 | Torne | don't compress them |
| 12:20:53 | kugel | apk is always compressed isnt it? |
| 12:21:03 | Torne | apk is a zip, compression is on a per-file basis |
| 12:21:13 | kugel | ah, i didn't know that |
| 12:21:21 | Torne | aapt already detects already-compressed formats (like jpg and pals) and skips compressing them, storing them directly |
| 12:21:35 | Torne | and it pads assets to align them to page boundaries in the file |
| 12:21:38 | kugel | I also didn't know that :) |
| 12:21:40 | Torne | specifically so they can be mmap'ed |
| 12:21:45 | kugel | and that :) |
| 12:21:50 | Torne | you can tell it other files/tiletypes to not compress, also |
| 12:22:10 | Torne | compressed resources can only easily be accessed from java, though, you're right (and even then only as an unseekable input stream) |
| 12:22:20 | Torne | (because, yaknow, it's just inflating it as it goes along) |
| 12:22:57 | Torne | Anyway. You can just use Java to do it, for loading stuff |
| 12:22:59 | Torne | I would :) |
| 12:23:13 | Torne | allocate buffer, make JNI call requesting that a particular resource gets loaded into that buffer |
| 12:23:26 | Torne | java code reads the resource using the normal resource apis in the framework, which will decompress for you |
| 12:23:35 | Torne | it's just like any other filesystem implementation :) |
| 12:24:19 | Torne | the only thing you actually do have to extract onto the local filesystem is shared objects, because sadly the Bionic dynamic loader can't load a shared object from inside an apk, compressed or not |
| 12:24:36 | Torne | (it would in theory be possible to do it if the .so was stored uncompressed, but it doesn't) |
| 12:26:42 | kugel | we use plain open() and friends to access themes etc, I wouldnt want to change that |
| 12:26:55 | Torne | why not? |
| 12:27:11 | Torne | it's not difficult |
| 12:27:29 | Torne | also, you don't have to change the places where it calls open() |
| 12:27:41 | Torne | just wrap open() to abstract the resources out as a pretend FS |
| 12:28:29 | * | Torne shrugs. |
| 12:28:30 | kugel | that requires changes to rockbox itself |
| 12:28:37 | Torne | not really. |
| 12:29:31 | Torne | also: we shouldn't really be handling themes and fonts and things the same way as native rockbox *anywya* |
| 12:29:36 | Torne | because we should be trying to mmap() that stuff |
| 12:29:38 | Torne | instead of reading it |
| 12:29:40 | Torne | to save memory |
| 12:29:59 | Torne | (whether that's mmap() from a real file or from inside the apk) |
| 12:30:22 | Torne | actually the same applies to a lot of things |
| 12:30:24 | Torne | the database, etc :) |
| 12:31:46 | kugel | it doesnt save a lot of memory |
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| 12:32:10 | Torne | it doesn't? |
| 12:32:12 | kugel | we usually don't have the files as-is in ram |
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| 12:32:47 | Torne | fonts we do. the database we do, i think |
| 12:33:43 | Torne | anyway. |
| 12:33:58 | Torne | this is just more ways in which our architecture isn't great as an app :) |
| 12:34:33 | kugel | could extend buflib to have file-backed allocs, which could be mmap() on hosted |
| 12:34:44 | Torne | yes. |
| 12:35:27 | Torne | and on freestanding it can probably do the alignment/etc to do DMA reads and so on |
| 12:35:35 | Torne | in order to just slurp the file in the most efficient way |
| 12:36:56 | kugel | could we have some mmap-like thing on native as well? |
| 12:37:04 | kugel | trickery with data abort handlers or so? |
| 12:37:25 | Torne | only on the devices with real MMUs, and only if we were prepared to start allocating real 4kb-granularity page tables |
| 12:37:32 | Torne | and then that's not trickery, that's just actual paging |
| 12:37:33 | Torne | :) |
| 12:37:58 | funman | <a target="_blank" href="https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/239">g#239a> ? |
| 12:37:59 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #239 at <a target="_blank" href="http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/239">http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/239a> : WIP: read-only memory on sansa AMS using MMU by Rafaël Carré (changes/39/239/2) |
| 12:38:17 | Torne | you're still using section mappings there, no? |
| 12:38:37 | Torne | anyway, no, there isn't really a trick other than "implement paging" |
| 12:38:47 | Torne | it's fine to have an mmap() that works by just reading the entire file up front |
| 12:38:58 | Torne | that's semantically valid for read-only mappings |
| 12:38:59 | Torne | :) |
| 12:39:19 | Torne | (fake mmap for writable mappings is possible too but fiddlier) |
| 12:39:44 | kugel | reading into ram? |
| 12:39:54 | kugel | what about a real mmap? |
| 12:39:56 | Torne | yeah. allocate the required amount of ram, read entire file into it, return pointer to allocated region |
| 12:40:17 | Torne | what about it? not sure what you're asking. |
| 12:40:29 | kugel | could we implement it? |
| 12:40:32 | Torne | yes, we could implement paging on devices with an MMU. no, i don't think it's at all a good idae |
| 12:40:42 | Torne | it will ruin our soft-RT-ness :) |
| 12:41:31 | Torne | also it's really fucking complicated |
| 12:41:38 | * | kugel thinks it should be possible without mmu too, even if limited to only one file at a time or so |
| 12:41:41 | Torne | having implemented it in a realtime OS before :) |
| 12:41:52 | Torne | er |
| 12:41:53 | Torne | how? |
| 12:42:57 | kugel | hm, wait, you need an mmu to trap non-ram memory accesses right? |
| 12:43:15 | Torne | you need an MMU to make a given address not always do the same thing, basically :) |
| 12:45:20 | Torne | Okay, so technically you could do it, but it woul dbe torturous and incredibly slow: what you have to do is use a region of memory which aborts on access (which doesn't necessarily exist on all hardware, some things just don't abort), and then when you take a data abort, *decode the aborting instruction* and look at the registers to work out what address it accessed (because ther's no FAR on MMUless ARM) and then work out what register it wanted ... |
| 12:45:26 | Torne | ... the result in and copy the right word of data there |
| 12:45:49 | Torne | nobody is going to do that. |
| 12:46:08 | kugel | right, that was roughly my idea :) |
| 12:46:21 | Torne | that's absurd, though :) |
| 12:46:30 | Torne | it would take hundreds of instructions to handle a *hit* |
| 12:46:48 | Torne | hm, maybe only *a* hundred, but still |
| 12:47:03 | Torne | it basically means you are emulating the entire behaviour of the ldr and str instructions |
| 12:47:17 | Torne | (you need to do the whole thing, including, say, base register updates for ! and so on) |
| 12:47:24 | Torne | also ldm/stm :) |
| 12:48:16 | Torne | and even then it still wouldn't be implementable on all hardware, because some devices *never data abort* |
| 12:48:27 | Torne | at least, not externally (they may abort on alignment) |
| 12:48:58 | Torne | some device buses just return something for *any* address; mirrors or garbage or zeros, and never abort. |
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| 12:49:43 | Torne | anyway no. paging is a bad idea for our use case, we want predictable behaviour. as an app, we are already screwed and cannot be sensibly RT no matter how we try so using mmap() is not unreasonable :P |
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| 12:53:39 | kugel | I don't remember we really want that |
| 12:54:12 | kugel | (RTness) |
| 12:54:26 | kugel | at least it's not document that we do or we focus on it |
| 12:55:34 | Torne | we are pretty much the definition of a soft RT system, at least as a firmware :) |
| 12:56:34 | kugel | i know, but i don't remember it's our declared goal |
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| 13:09:16 | Torne | i don't think it has to be declared: we want audio playback to work reliably, therefore we have to behave in at least a soft RT way |
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| 14:18:41 | * | kugel disagrees, but well |
| 14:20:49 | funman | help me finish <a target="_blank" href="https://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/c/rockbox/+/239">g#239a> so we can have data aborts *at all*, after that you'll have more matter to debate :P |
| 14:20:50 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #239 at <a target="_blank" href="http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/239">http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/239a> : WIP: read-only memory on sansa AMS using MMU by Rafaël Carré (changes/39/239/2) |
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| 15:52:38 | amayer | are the daily builds stable or beta? |
| 15:53:16 | | Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 15:53:24 | gevaerts | No |
| 15:53:37 | Torne | amayer: where still refers to the daily builds? |
| 15:53:37 | gevaerts | They're daily builds of the development tree |
| 15:53:44 | gevaerts | Ah yes, that too |
| 15:54:00 | gevaerts | amayer: also, look for "database.ignore" in the manual |
| 15:54:31 | amayer | so the daily builds are beta |
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| 15:54:39 | gevaerts | No |
| 15:54:49 | amayer | im confused |
| 15:55:11 | Torne | the daily builds are an archive of bleeding edge development versions that happen to be spaced 24 hours apart |
| 15:55:11 | amayer | i just installed rockbox last night |
| 15:55:25 | Torne | they are for people to go back into the past to work out when something broke |
| 15:55:29 | Torne | they are not something you should install to use |
| 15:55:43 | gevaerts | Well, unless you understand "beta" as "any build that's not an official release", but that's not what beta typically means |
| 15:55:58 | Torne | there are two choices for what you should install: either the latest stable release (3.11) or the most recent development build (some hex number) |
| 15:56:12 | amayer | ok thank you |
| 15:56:39 | Torne | amayer: i assume you are referring to the choices in Rockbox Utility? |
| 15:56:48 | Torne | the wbesite shouldn't be referring to daily builds any more. |
| 15:56:57 | amayer | i read about it on a forum |
| 15:57:03 | Torne | our forum? |
| 15:59:20 | amayer | yes |
| 15:59:29 | amayer | <a target="_blank" href="http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic">http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topica>,28562.0.html |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:01 | amayer | (i have an ipod classic) |
| 16:00:07 | Torne | ah. that's from a year ago |
| 16:00:19 | amayer | yes i noticed. thats why i asked |
| 16:00:45 | gevaerts | Anyway, on the classic you want a dev build |
| 16:01:07 | amayer | are you saying i should or shouldnt use a dev build? |
| 16:01:38 | gevaerts | There is no other build type available on the classic |
| 16:02:01 | amayer | i got the most recent version off of freemyipod.org(com?) |
| 16:02:13 | Torne | those are not at all recent |
| 16:02:32 | amayer | so i should download the most recent daily build and install that? |
| 16:02:33 | Torne | they are very old dev builds :) |
| 16:02:43 | gevaerts | Oh, <a target="_blank" href="http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi">http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgia> still refers to daily builds... |
| 16:02:47 | Torne | no. as you have been told several times you should not use the daily builds at all |
| 16:03:09 | Torne | gevaerts: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml">http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtmla> still has the filename/title :) |
| 16:03:20 | Torne | that page probably should just go away |
| 16:03:32 | Torne | having downloads for the most recent daily build is kinda useless |
| 16:05:03 | gevaerts | amayer: I think you can install an up to date dev build from rockbox utility. If not, go to <a target="_blank" href="http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi">http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgia>, click "Toggle full/compact table", and look for "Ipod Classic" in the (rotated) list. That links to what you wany |
| 16:05:07 | gevaerts | *want |
| 16:05:43 | Torne | huh. why doesn't build.rockbox.org list it |
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| 16:06:00 | gevaerts | Because it's classified as unusable, not unstable |
| 16:06:10 | gevaerts | It should probably be promoted I guess |
| 16:06:12 | Torne | hrm. |
| 16:06:24 | Torne | probably yes |
| 16:06:35 | Torne | but also, i dunno that skipping it on that grounds is particularly helpful |
| 16:06:40 | amayer | what is the difference between the ipod video and classic? |
| 16:06:43 | gevaerts | Oh, I *think* that's because you can't install it using only rockbox.org stuff |
| 16:07:01 | Torne | amayer: they're completly different devices? |
| 16:07:26 | Torne | they happen to be about the same size and shape, but that's about th eonly similraity |
| 16:08:03 | amayer | i have a gray(blackish) 120Gb ipod with black click wheel |
| 16:08:41 | amayer | some websites say its a video some say classic |
| 16:08:57 | Torne | there are no 120GB ipod videos |
| 16:09:00 | amayer | apple says classic but they dont have a "ipod video" descrition |
| 16:09:01 | Torne | they only go up to 80GB |
| 16:09:08 | amayer | ok so its a classic |
| 16:09:12 | Torne | yes. |
| 16:09:19 | amayer | so i cant use the video build |
| 16:09:22 | Torne | no. |
| 16:09:26 | amayer | ok thank you |
| 16:09:54 | | Quit anewuser (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 16:10:05 | amayer | ive been using linux forever and not to sound like a noob but i thought this would be kinda like that were you just install general software and it figures most everything out for you |
| 16:10:15 | amayer | i guess mp3 players are more specialized then computers |
| 16:10:23 | amayer | you guys are very helpful |
| 16:10:46 | Torne | every player we support is differnt |
| 16:11:07 | Torne | they share varying amounts of code, but they all need unique builds |
| 16:11:51 | amayer | i went to college for computer science and understand software but hardware has somehow eluded me |
| 16:12:46 | amayer | i like free software. and would like to contribute but im just trying to wrap my head around it before i go making waves in the pool |
| 16:13:48 | | Quit saratoga (Quit: Page closed) |
| 16:14:00 | amayer | so the topic that started this disscussion was me wondering if i enable fastboot on emcore will i be able to get back to the boot menu if i want to or will it always just skip to booting rockbox? |
| 16:14:30 | amayer | (i googled emcore fastboot menu and the daily builds came up) |
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| 16:17:25 | amayer | im on the build dev page an i cant find ipod classic. its in the delta table but i have no idea what i need to click to get the correct files |
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| 16:21:28 | gevaerts | The name at the top of the page |
| 16:21:53 | amayer | i think i found it. you just click the vertical "ipod classic" |
| 16:22:07 | gevaerts | Yes, as I said |
| 16:22:30 | amayer | thank you very much. you guys are a huge help |
| 16:22:51 | amayer | do you know about emcore boot menu? |
| 16:23:14 | gevaerts | no. You'll have to ask the freemyipod people about that |
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| 16:46:51 | Dr_saratoga | so if no one minds i'm going to just commit the playlist sd card code |
| 16:47:35 | funman | i trust you, doctor |
| 16:53:35 | Dr_saratoga | lol |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:05:06 | CIA-47 | Commit b30edcd in rockbox by Michael Giacomelli: Make playlist.c aware of external storage when determining paths |
| 17:05:18 | Dr_saratoga | i think this is a good first step |
| 17:05:40 | | Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 17:05:46 | Dr_saratoga | eventually we should make the playlist code actually search all possible volumes in order to intelligently determine where a playlist points to |
| 17:06:07 | Dr_saratoga | but for now, this behavior is a lot more sensible then just assuming everything was on the internal storage |
| 17:08:10 | CIA-47 | b30edcd build result: 0 errors, 105 warnings (Michael Giacomelli committed) |
| 17:09:28 | Dr_saratoga | oh wow |
| 17:09:39 | Dr_saratoga | thats embarrassing, but i'll have to fix it in a couple minutes |
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| 17:34:28 | pixelma | didn't Lear have some objections (in the forums or so)? I haven't followed it unfortunately though :\ |
| 17:38:54 | CIA-47 | Commit d245997 in rockbox by Michael Giacomelli: Fix warning on previous commit. |
| 17:40:56 | Dr_saratoga | bertrik: did you get anywhere with the USB file handle issue? |
| 17:41:12 | CIA-47 | d245997 build result: All green |
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| 17:56:42 | [Saint_] | gevaerts> Oh, I *think* that's because you can't install it using only rockbox.org stuff <−− Yeah, its "unusable" as opposed to "unstable" because of the no RB bootloader/no RBUtil support shennanigans. |
| 17:57:19 | [Saint_] | TheSeven said at some point that getting the Classic to work with ipodpatcher would be fairly trivial. |
| 17:57:29 | | Quit fbnlsr (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) |
| 17:57:48 | [Saint_] | But, he's been super busy lately and hasn't done sweet FA in terms of development. |
| 17:58:05 | | Quit factor (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:11 | [Saint_] | amayer: Yes, if you enable fastboot, you can still get to the boot menu by holding <any_key> (other than hold) during boot. |
| 18:00:40 | [Saint_] | And trust me, you want to enable fast boot, it takes those things frickin' ages to boot up. |
| 18:01:02 | amayer | thank you. i went to #freemyipod-support as suggested |
| 18:01:13 | amayer | you guys are really helpful tho |
| 18:01:22 | [Saint_] | And since there's no Apple firmware, and an end-user pretty much shouldn't touch anything else in the menu, fastboot is the way to go. |
| 18:01:32 | [Saint_] | Most of that menu assumes you're a developer. |
| 18:01:39 | | Quit domonoky (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:01:57 | amayer | it does boot alot faster with fastboot on |
| 18:02:37 | [Saint_] | Apple "cheats" with its booting, because the device never actually properly turns off. |
| 18:02:42 | [Saint_] | The simply hibernate it. |
| 18:03:01 | amayer | is there like a diskdrive utility i can put on as bootable so that i can connect it as a disk drive without starting rockbox |
| 18:04:07 | [Saint_] | No. |
| 18:04:44 | [Saint_] | There would be, but there's no dual-boot, and hence, no disk-mode. |
| 18:04:55 | amayer | so rock box is what makes the harddrive section accessable to the computer |
| 18:05:21 | amayer | isnt there some way i could add a launcher to emCore? |
| 18:05:28 | [Saint_] | Rockbox is controlling absolutely everything on the device, yes. There's no longer a shred of Apple code on there. |
| 18:05:45 | [Saint_] | A launcher to what, exactly? |
| 18:07:19 | [Saint_] | I'm not following what you're asking. |
| 18:08:12 | amayer | my head unit in my car can scan a hard drive and find all the mp3s but it does not support rockbox |
| 18:08:29 | amayer | i can put a thumb drive in with mp3s on it and i can play them through my head unit |
| 18:08:38 | amayer | im looking for a way to do that with my ipod |
| 18:08:49 | [Saint_] | Right, but, as I said...there's no disk-mode, as there's no Apple firmware. |
| 18:09:03 | amayer | i understand |
| 18:09:31 | [Saint_] | If your head unit supported IAP, and in the distant future when IAP is added to the classic port, it should "just work". |
| 18:09:46 | amayer | what is IAP? |
| 18:10:23 | [Saint_] | Alternatively, if dual-boot ever becomes functional, and the head unit is happy mounting "dumb storage" (for example, your thumb drive), then that will "just work" too. |
| 18:10:31 | [Saint_] | Ipod Accessory Protocol |
| 18:10:36 | Torne | It's unlikely that we support any variant of IAP used by a modern head unit |
| 18:10:46 | Torne | so even if we implement IAP on the Classic port it still won't work, probably |
| 18:11:01 | amayer | the head unit is 4 years old |
| 18:11:04 | Torne | yes |
| 18:11:06 | amayer | and it worked with my ipod |
| 18:11:12 | [Saint_] | Torne: I have a reasonably modern head unit, and it /half/ works. |
| 18:11:14 | Torne | by modern i mean, like, the last decade :) |
| 18:11:21 | Torne | The relevant info here is: it's probably detecting based on the USB IDs that it's an iPod and then specifically trying to talk the apple protocol do it |
| 18:11:29 | Torne | if you ran a build of rockbox that *didn't* look like an ipod |
| 18:11:36 | Torne | then it would just treat it like a usb stick and find all the mp3s |
| 18:12:38 | | Quit GermanMushroom (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 18:13:11 | Torne | it doesn't work because rockbox still identifies the device as an ipod, while not actually being compatible with the ipod-specific usb protocols :) |
| 18:13:12 | [Saint_] | Torne: I can play/pause and skip (but not seek) with the head-unit and my Nano2Gs |
| 18:13:25 | Torne | [Saint_]: that's an old fashioned one, then |
| 18:13:34 | Torne | i.e. one that is using the ipod to playt he audio |
| 18:13:43 | Torne | modern ones just read the data from the ipod and play the audio themselves |
| 18:13:44 | [Saint_] | its only 2~3 years old. |
| 18:13:52 | Torne | okay, so replace with "cheap" |
| 18:13:54 | Torne | :) |
| 18:14:01 | [Saint_] | Its certainly not cheap. |
| 18:14:07 | Torne | then you got ripped off :) |
| 18:14:08 | [Saint_] | its *very* not cheap. |
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| 18:14:31 | Torne | modern flashy head units seem to use the latest usb protocol to just look into the iTunesDB on the device |
| 18:14:43 | Torne | and then just treat the ipod as a disk, but give you browsing info based on the DB |
| 18:14:48 | Torne | i.e. the player is not doing much of the work at all |
| 18:15:01 | Torne | or various similar weird schemes that we don't support even a little bit |
| 18:15:21 | Torne | this is usually what is wrong when a device is able to play mp3s off a dumb usb stick, but not off a rockbox'ed ipod. |
| 18:15:57 | [Saint_] | If I use the Apple firmware and plug it in, it puts a nice little "Sony Xplod" logo on the screen. |
| 18:16:08 | [Saint_] | ...it'd be nice if we knew how to do magic like this in RB |
| 18:22:19 | amayer | thats the head unit i have "Sony Xplod" |
| 18:22:24 | amayer | we could figure it out |
| 18:22:51 | amayer | ive seen it on a couple of head units. i had a touch screen head unit the had a dumb logo too |
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| 18:46:01 | amayer | does rockbox support hibernate? |
| 18:48:27 | Dr_saratoga | no |
| 18:49:48 | amayer | thanks |
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| 19:11:31 | Thra11 | I'm surprised freemyipod haven't updated their releases page. There have been some major improvements for the iPod Classic since their most recent build. (<a target="_blank" href="http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Releases">http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Releasesa>) |
| 19:14:15 | amayer | i installed that release last night and played music for an hour and it ate half my battery. today i downloaded the most recent build and ive been listening for over an hour and my battery is still full |
| 19:14:19 | | Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 19:14:41 | amayer | so i would say yes. there were some major improvements |
| 19:15:03 | Thra11 | There's also a random crash that happens with that release but has since been fixed |
| 19:15:18 | amayer | i wonder why they just dont link to the most recent build on rockbox.org |
| 19:18:51 | Thra11 | Well the *most* recent build might contain experimental code that hasn't been fully tested yet |
| 19:19:05 | Thra11 | So they're trying to provide a more "stable" version |
| 19:19:32 | amayer | got it |
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| 19:22:26 | Dr_saratoga | they should probably just link to the current version |
| 19:23:07 | Dr_saratoga | funman: if I want to test a lower PCLK, is changing AS3525_DRAM_FREQ enough? It looks like the code will figure out the right dividers for me to get close to that number but i'm not certain |
| 19:23:09 | amayer | thats kinda what i ment. not really the daily build but the most current released version |
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| 19:45:48 | gevaerts | amayer: and what exactly would that be? |
| 19:46:05 | gevaerts | For the classic, there's only the current development build |
| 19:46:18 | amayer | exactly use that |
| 19:46:31 | amayer | they have a really old version on there |
| 19:47:21 | gevaerts | Yes, but I'm not sure what "not really the daily build but the most current released version" is supposed to mean |
| 19:47:56 | amayer | the dev build isnt the same thing as the daily build correct? |
| 19:49:02 | gevaerts | No, but the difference is one of frequency of builds, not anything more |
| 19:49:22 | gevaerts | A daily build is build from the dev tree once per day, the current dev build is built whenever the tree changes |
| 19:49:32 | | Quit nosa-j (Quit: lol) |
| 19:49:36 | gevaerts | So there's no difference in expected quality |
| 19:49:45 | gevaerts | Which is why we're getting rid of the daily build |
| 19:50:13 | amayer | is there a decently stable build or like a "last known worked" build |
| 19:50:32 | amayer | i dont mean "stable" but you understand |
| 19:50:51 | amayer | im just saying they should like to something more up to date |
| 19:50:51 | gevaerts | No. We try to keep the dev tree working |
| 19:52:00 | gevaerts | The normal expectation is that a target reaches "stable" as fast as possible, and while it's not there most builds will be better than older builds |
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| 19:52:19 | gevaerts | As soon as a target reaches "stable", there's the latest stable release |
| 19:52:43 | amayer | but there isnt one for the ipod-classic |
| 19:53:30 | amayer | we were talking about the build hosted on freemyipod.org |
| 19:53:45 | gevaerts | They're free to host builds, yes |
| 19:54:22 | amayer | im not saying that. i totally agree with them hosting it. but it is an old build which someone said had a bad crash bug in it |
| 19:54:50 | gevaerts | The ipod classic situation is a bit unfortunate, but the ipod classic is really one of the exceptions here. Most targets go to "stable" reasonably quickly, or aren't really usable at all. Targets that get stuck halfway are hard to deal with |
| 19:55:28 | [Saint_] | Thra11: The point of those releases is to offer a known good build. |
| 19:55:35 | gevaerts | Anyway, if you want to talk the freemyipod.org people into updating their build, you're welcome and you have my moral support, but their channels are probably going to work better :) |
| 19:55:48 | [Saint_] | Its up to you if you want to continue and install a development snapshot afterwards. |
| 19:56:15 | amayer | i guess that makes sence |
| 19:56:30 | amayer | i installed the most current build and it runs ALOT better |
| 19:57:37 | amayer | question, can i use the themes from ipod video? or are there no themes for ipod classic? |
| 19:57:47 | [Saint_] | Same thing. |
| 19:58:05 | [Saint_] | The theme only cares a hoot about the screen size. |
| 19:58:13 | [Saint_] | The Classic and Video share dimensions. |
| 19:58:16 | amayer | makes sence |
| 19:59:01 | amayer | the player doesnt look like it did in the theme |
| 19:59:25 | amayer | i copied all the file to the correct spot but the player is all black and white and is just lines. nothing looks polished |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:05 | [Saint_] | Anyway, the point of the release builds on freemyipod.org, is that they're tested, and they work. Even if there are bugs included. Its largely irrelevant how old the build is, though, as you're going to install a development snapshot immediately anyway (as per the instructions) |
| 20:00:20 | [Saint_] | It just offers a safe, known workig build so you can actually do so. |
| 20:01:20 | amayer | do i have to manually go into setting and select player theme, then icon theme, then menu theme and change them all? or can i select a config file and it all just loads correct? |
| 20:01:22 | [Saint_] | If they provided releases of the current code, and say....USB broke, you'd be screwed (to some extent) |
| 20:01:43 | [Saint_] | amayer: No, just select the theme .cfg |
| 20:01:44 | amayer | [Saint_]: yeah i get that |
| 20:02:52 | [Saint_] | So, yeah. While it might seem a bit weird that there's ages old builds on freemyipod.org, there's a reason behind it. |
| 20:03:24 | | Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 20:03:31 | amayer | its just to make it work not make it up to date |
| 20:03:40 | * | [Saint_] nods |
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