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#rockbox log for 2012-06-25

00:05:22CIA-47Commit 3880145 in rockbox by Dominik Riebeling: Add missing class name to System Trace log.
00:08:06CIA-473880145 build result: All green
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01:03:15 Nick Luka is now known as Guest24802 (
01:04:19Guest24802Hey. Any idea when the "Themes" and "Forums" sections are going to be back up? Particularly the themes one.
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01:08:03JdGordonscorche: your server down?
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02:02:00JdGordon[Saint]: g#284
02:02:02fs-bluebotGerrit review #284 at : skin_engine: Automatically create touch regions for skin bars by Jonathan Gordon (changes/84/284/1)
02:02:28[Saint]Aha! frickin' awesome.
02:03:35 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
02:03:56[Saint]SO...wait, what...a bar automagically makes it ouwn touch region now (no need for a declaration in the skin?)
02:04:05[Saint]that *is* nice...
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02:04:42JdGordonim not exactly sure if it will get all the cases, but it works for cabbie (in git) on the progressbar
02:04:46[Saint]that takes so much fuckery out of my cabbie theme (or, will do)
02:04:46JdGordonmight need some tweaking
02:04:51[Saint]the bar magic is not pretty.
02:05:24[Saint]Does it account for reversed bars?
02:06:09[Saint]Oh, derp. I skipped the line where you explicitly state this. :-S
02:07:26[Saint]Is the modified wps/cabbiev2.480x800x16.wps in the patch set intentional?
02:08:31[Saint]Ok...just seemed a bit weird to me.
02:08:46[Saint]thought it snuck in there.
02:09:04JdGordonlook at the change, it removes the %T(progressbar) line
02:10:55[Saint]Yes, but, there's several other touch cabbies.
02:11:07[Saint](which is why I thought it was weird)
02:11:20JdGordoni hadnt found them yet :)
02:11:31[Saint]I just had a thought, though, and, you're /probably/ not going to like me very much... :)
02:11:38JdGordonuh oh!
02:11:55[Saint]Can one still define their own touch region?
02:11:59[Saint](for bars)
02:12:07[Saint]Ah...*phew* :)
02:12:13[Saint]Crisis averted :)
02:12:54[Saint]There's several places where the touch region extends far beyond the bar itself. I suddenly thought "Ohhhhh...crap"
02:12:55JdGordonwierd shit mighjt happen if you do thoguh
02:13:13[Saint]If you don't do so, its not possible to seek to the highest/lowest values in the bar.
02:13:23[Saint]so, this may be a problem.
02:13:39 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
02:13:48JdGordonshould I add some space on either end?
02:13:55JdGordon10% or something?
02:14:08[Saint]that's probably wise, perhaps a percentile of the ba
02:14:10[Saint]..yes, that.
02:15:32 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
02:25:13JdGordon[Saint]: ok, try the link again, it adds 5% on either end of the bar
02:25:26JdGordonerr... only for horizontal bars though, so ill fix hat
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02:27:05[Saint]I also make use of extending the bar's touch region above and below the bar (so its more similar to Android's bar behaviour where you can "pick up" a bar and move off it whilst still scrolling)...but, this can't really be done automagically I don't think.
02:27:11[Saint]I can fake it, though.
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02:43:57*[Saint] doesn't like being "thinks o9f things" guy today.
02:44:06[Saint]perhaps "hindsight guy"?
02:44:45amayerwhat does "hindsight guy" do?
02:44:51[Saint]While if it happened, its /probably/ just bad design, this new bar behaviour may make for a situation where two touch areas overlap.
02:45:08[Saint]amayer: he thinks of thing he should have thought of before now :)
02:46:03amayerpertaining to rockbox? like the "come up with new ideas" guy?
02:46:41[Saint]The ony thing I can think of (presently) is negating the new bar behaviour if a touch area is defined for said bar...but, that's likely not a: pretty, or b: non-trivial
02:46:45JdGordon[Saint]: yeah, but you cant deal with everything
02:46:52[Saint]JdGordon: this is true.
02:47:11[Saint]As I said, its likely down to shitty UI design if it happens :)
02:50:04JdGordon[Saint]: I'm not sure i really want to add padding on the ends
02:50:30[Saint]fixing edge detection would be "the right fix"
02:50:38[Saint]but, its very screen dependant.
02:51:28[Saint]the touch areas seem to not be able to scroll to the highest/lowest it could, there'd be no need for packing.
02:52:19[Saint]this is likely *very* screen dependant though.
02:52:37amayeris the themes section of the website down?
02:53:18[Saint]seems so.
02:55:37amayerdo they host that on a seperate server or is it just apache acting up?
02:57:08amayer$ host returns different ip's so i guess its different servers
02:57:15*[Saint] nods
02:57:21*[Saint] also pokes rasher
02:58:08amayer[Saint]: are you guys talking about rockbox on touch devices?
02:58:18*rasher redirects the poking towards scorche
02:58:26JdGordonforums and themes are on scorche's server not rasher, bah too slow
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02:58:33amayer(as in touch screen)
02:58:39*scorche is poked and reads the backscroll
02:58:55rasherscorche: server gone, I assume you're aware
02:59:31[Saint]amayer: yes, yes we are.
02:59:39scorchei wasnt, actually - been going through some stuff off-line
02:59:40amayerthats awesome
02:59:42*scorche investigates
02:59:58[Saint]not specifically, but mostly, pertaining to my cabbie touch work.
03:00:22[Saint]it applies to all touch devices with RB, but, I discovered it though localisation work.
03:01:09[Saint]I'm working on a theme that "just works" with both LTR and RTL langs, and, its not terribly easy (and, impossible with git HEAD)
03:05:48amayerquestion: what is the default theme that is shipped with RB?
03:06:39scorcheserver is rebooting - cause of interruption in service unknown as of yet - looks like an issue with just my system though
03:09:02[Saint]amayer: its called "cabbieV2"
03:09:26amayerif i have an improvement/bug fix for that where should i submit it?
03:09:43[Saint]gerrit. and, remember to poke me as a reviewer.
03:09:43scorchewell, the server is up - i will investigate later...
03:10:13[Saint]amayer: what's the issue (I know there are many)?
03:10:37[Saint]I have around ~10 mins to discuss this if you're free.
03:11:00amayer[Saint]: in the config file if you change themes then change back it doesnt reload the icons
03:11:17amayerif you put /.rockbox/icons/... then it works
03:11:42amayer(not a huge issue but it was confusing)
03:12:29[Saint]I'm really not sure that's the ideal fix.
03:13:00[Saint]Its a nasty issue, one theme sets something another unsets, etc.
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03:13:45amayeri understand. im saying when you switch back to cabbieV2 it doesnt reload the icons
03:14:38amayerit just doesnt work on my ipod im not sure how it will work on other devices
03:14:52[Saint]that's because its respecting the current setting, which the prior theme unset.
03:15:11[Saint]its *supposed* to respect the current setting, but, switching themes makes this a bit weird.
03:15:40amayerso its looking for it in the wps folder since its a relative path?
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03:16:03[Saint]No, its not looking for it at all, since display icons gets unset by the prior theme
03:16:14[Saint](I assume this is the issue here)
03:17:32[Saint]My assumption is, from seeing this before, this is happening when you apply a theme that doesn't set icons, and then switch back to cabbie?
03:17:47amayerin /.rockbox/themes/cabbiev2.cfg it says:
03:17:49amayer iconset: icons/tango_icons.16x16.bmp
03:17:50[Saint]While its not expected behaviour, its *teachnically* "correct" behaviour.
03:17:51amayerviewers iconset: icons/tango_icons_viewers.16x16.bmp
03:18:14[Saint]amayer: yes, that's just telling it what iconset to use.
03:18:23amayerbut the icon sets dont load
03:18:27[Saint]whether or not to display is is a different config item entirely.
03:18:38[Saint]*it is
03:19:04[Saint]just setting the iconset doesn't=="show icons", but, it just so happens that show icons is the default.
03:19:58amayerwell if i put
03:20:04amayer/.rockbox/ icons/tango_icons_viewers.16x16.bmp
03:20:05[Saint]For this particular case, its /probably/ best to add "show icons: true" or whatever it is to the theme config for cabbie...but, its not very nice to override a potentially user set config item.
03:20:06amayerthen the icons load
03:20:11[Saint]in fact, its plain ugly.
03:20:36[Saint]Wait...huh? That's....that's just weird.
03:20:51*[Saint] needs to look into this when he has some more time.
03:21:23amayerjust figured i would bring it up
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03:21:54[Saint]Oh, you're not the first, but, this indeed actually sounds broken.
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03:22:07amayerlike i said not a huge contribution but i figured i would bring it up
03:22:07[Saint]rather than the semi-broken but actually expected behaviour.
03:22:32amayer(since its the theme that ships with RB i figured it should work)
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03:23:27[Saint]Oh, definitely. when you say "add /.rockbox/ icons/tango_icons_viewers.16x16.bmp" etc. do you mean config.cfg, or, cabbiev2.cfg
03:24:11[Saint]it *should* already be in cabbiev2.cfg, and, it definitely shouldn't magically disappear.
03:24:34amayer(take the space out after /.rockbox/(space) icons
03:24:38amayerthat was my typo
03:25:07[Saint]yeah, np. I gathered.
03:25:43[Saint]No I have to figure out why this is happening, this should be a fun afternoon :)
03:25:55amayerso your saying it should already be there(and its missing in mine)
03:26:20[Saint]Yes, the theme should define its own iconset.
03:26:20amayeror it should be there and isnt?
03:26:57amayerwell it does define an icon set. it just doesnt have /.rockbox/ in the front so it wasnt loading
03:27:19amayeri have to go but i will be on tomorrow.
03:27:23[Saint]Aha! Right...I totally misunderstood.
03:27:35[Saint]Sorry about that. I thought it was missing entirely.
03:27:54amayerwell i hope i helped out
03:28:16[Saint]Catching things that shouldn't be definitely helps :)
03:29:26amayerim glad. see you tomorrow
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04:54:55[Saint]What builds the theme .cfg file? one assumes?
04:55:34[Saint]bertrik mentioned a problem with backdrop loading I should have picked up on, which I'm pretty sure is the same thing as our man from earlier mentioned.
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05:00:58[Saint]this shit is nuts!
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05:01:23*[Saint] looks around for who to blame for the hideous monster that is
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05:49:22[Saint]Is there a way I can force to just generate a .cfg for a given target?
05:51:35[Saint]kugel: ping?
05:51:46[Saint]or perhaps JdGordon?
05:52:08JdGordonHAHAHAHA no!
05:52:32[Saint]No ping, or, no, or no both? :)
05:53:00[Saint]you can obviously see what's wrong, but, I can't see the cause:
05:53:20[Saint]there's no $rbdir for backdrop, icons, or viewers.
05:56:01[Saint]I can see where the .cfg is built, but, I can't for the life of me (with a cursory look) see where the various objects are defined. $backdrop, $icons, $viewers and friends.
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05:58:21[Saint]There's absolutely no way the current .cfg is ever going to work, though. of it will, but I'm surprised it loads at all as those paths should be invalid and theme loading should choke iiuc.
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06:21:42*[Saint] added FS #12706
06:21:43fs-bluebot cabbiev2.cfg is generated with invalid paths (bugs, unconfirmed)
06:22:01[Saint]kugel: when you get in, you should /probably/ look into this.
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06:48:34davoanyone know how to recover from a 'panic' on boot? won't power on now..
06:51:13davomaybe it's off-topic and more appropriate to ask in #rockbox-community
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07:00:40JdGordon[Saint]: I've added 5% on all 4 sides for the touch and i'm adding another option to stop the press region being created (though its unlikely it will be used)
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07:13:26JdGordon[Saint]: so.. 284, are you going to be able to test it out, or should i just push and we'll tweak it later?
07:16:01[Saint]I can't test it presently, I may be able to do so tonight, but I've not got a lot of free time.
07:16:48[Saint]I'm a bit confused as to whether or not this would be a skin breaking change or not.
07:16:59[Saint]I guess "yes?"
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07:20:17JdGordonhmm, this extra padding doesnt quite work nicely
07:20:34JdGordonwell not on sdl anyway
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08:46:48davoif after a 'panic' the device shutdown, and won't boot. is it safe to say the device is borked beyond salvaging?
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08:55:14CIA-47Commit bc7ff53 in rockbox by Thomas Martitz: Fix FS #12706 - paths for backdrops and icons were not properly constructed.
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08:57:25CIA-47bc7ff53 build result: All green
09:04:32davocan't get power to it, could the 'panic' have something to do with that
09:09:16davooh cool, looks like this is my problem and solution. thanks.;topic=33668.0
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10:13:38[Saint]kugel: since you're here, could you have a look at FS #12706 please?
10:13:39fs-bluebot cabbiev2.cfg is generated with invalid paths (bugs, closed)
10:13:58[Saint]Ah, you have...whoo[ps :)
10:14:35*[Saint] totally missed that commit, and for some reason hasn't been sent the closing mail.
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10:33:40kugelJdGordon: the whole blob of code you added is unecessary if notouch would be the default
10:34:01kugelre: g#284
10:34:02fs-bluebotGerrit review #284 at : skin_engine: Automatically create touch regions for skin bars by Jonathan Gordon (changes/84/284/5)
10:34:42kugelinstead of just defaulting to notouch we now need extra code for backward compatibility
10:34:56kugelobviously I'm not a fan of that
10:40:16JdGordondefaulting to notoisnt going to happen, /discussion
10:42:01[Saint]Do non-touch devices even give a shit about touch areas? I thought not...
10:42:28[Saint]If they did, I suspect my 240x320 theme wouldn't work on non-touch devices, which it does happily.
10:42:31kugelthe problem isn't non-touch devices
10:43:07[Saint]Ohhhh...I get you, yes. Sorry.
10:43:50kugelmy problem is that (existing) themes get extra touchregions which the author didn't have in his mind during creation
10:44:07kugelthat means a) possibly nasty side-effects for existing themes
10:44:20[Saint]Yeah, there's situations where I don't want this to happen with bars, but, overall I think that its less likely you won't want a touch region drawn for the bars.
10:44:51[Saint]and, skin breaking changes happen. Authors need to keep on top of this.
10:44:54kugelb) extra code is now needed to detect the "touch-enabled-ness" of the theme, since there's now implicit regions even for not touch-enabled themes
10:45:16kugelthe presense of touchregions indicates whether a theme is touch-enabled
10:46:10kugel[Saint]: *all* themes that want the touchregion for the bar already have it. this creates a second one in each which possibly doesnt play nice with the existing region
10:46:23[Saint]the "nice" way to handle this (IMO) would be to prepend a tag to a bar tag to say "I want the core to draw a touch area for this"
10:47:32kugelextra tag isn't needed, a param for the bar tag will do. the question is whether to default to creating the region or not
10:50:26kugeldefaulting to on essentially breaks existing themes (for IMO no gain)
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10:50:46[Saint]how does it break them?
10:51:05kugeli just explained it
10:51:55kugelskin breaking changes do happen yes, but this one is unecessary
10:52:27kugelwe should try to avoid them if possible
10:52:54kugelespecially if doing the change means we need extra code to handle old themes (or non-touch ones)
10:53:21kugelwhile not doing the breaking change doesnt need the code
10:53:57*[Saint] seems to have a habit for needing things for his work that cause arguments.
10:54:08[Saint]You'd swear I tired for this, but, just lucky I guess :)
10:54:41kugel[Saint]: don't get me wrong, I'm not against the general change, I think it's a very elegant solution to your problem
10:54:50kugelI just question the default
10:54:59[Saint]TO be perfectly honest, I really wasn't thinking about non-touch themes when I was running this through.
10:55:05[Saint]And I should have done so, so, my bad.
10:55:41kugelin the current patch you supress the auto-region with "notouch" param, IMO you should need to explicitely enable it with a "touch" param or so
10:57:04[Saint]One way it could be viewed, I guess, is that if the theme in question automagically becomes "touch enabled" with this change, and it also shares a resolution with a touchscreen should probably cater for touch regions anyway.
10:57:18[Saint]And if it doesn't share a resolution, the only issue is a bit of extra code.
10:57:42[Saint]But, you're /probably/ right about the default. I just wan't thinking about non-touch at the time.
10:57:49kugelit doesnt make the theme touch-enabled, as it still can't handle playback controls and stuff
10:58:19[Saint]right, my point is, if it shares a resolution with a touchscreen should already.
10:58:34[Saint]But, you can't force people to code proper themes (believe me, I've tried :0)
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10:59:14kugelwhy would you want to force a themer to touch-enable his ipod theme? he just wants it for his ipod
10:59:33[Saint]If a themer doesn't cater for touch when the theme they create has both touch and non-touch targets, its kinda broken IMO.
11:00:00[Saint]in the same league as not doing proper hardware checks
11:00:15[Saint]...but, people make crap themes, this is unfortunately a fact.
11:01:00kugelI don't agree that all themes must always work on all devices with the resolution, but that's another story anyway
11:01:36[Saint]I think they should, but, we can't force
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11:45:45JdGordonthere is no negative side effects from defaluting to on
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11:57:36JdGordonthere is no negative side effects from defaluting to on
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12:06:41kugelI'm not sure about that, and testing a single theme doesnt tell much
12:07:13kugeland even then, there's still a bunch of unecessary extra code to detect non-touch-enabled themes
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13:33:16wodzhmm elf2flt seems to be broken
13:34:56wodzit emits binary with big endian order of the pointers if they have relocation of type R_ARM_ABS32
13:37:24Tornewodz: is this the same issue as you asked me about the other day?
13:38:40wodzseems to
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13:40:29wodzIf I objcopy from intermediate elf everything is in little endian order but bflt file have pointers in big endian order. Looking at elf2flt it explicitely do if ((*p)->howto->type == R_ARM_ABS32) *(uint32_t *)r_mem = htonl(hl);
13:40:35wodzwhich seems tad wrong
13:44:18Tornewait, i'm not sure what you're referring to
13:44:27Tornesurely things that are relocated are not *in* the binary
13:45:29wodzsure they are
13:46:08wodzyou read relocate table to get offset then you read value from load_base + offset the value to fixup
13:46:34Tornewhat specific thing in the binary is bigendian?
13:46:43Torne"pointers" doesn't mean anything :)
13:46:58wodzone moment, I'll upload things to discuss somewhere
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13:48:15Tornethe bFLT fields are all network byte order
13:48:25Torneso the actual contents of the relocation table will be bigendian, yes
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13:49:40wodzrelocation tables yes but the value it points to should be little endian (or at least should not have different order then intermediate elf)
13:50:04Tornewhy shouldn't it?
13:51:43wodzhope this will not need to many vodoo to download
13:52:31wodz.elf is our regular elf (linked at some hw specific address) .bflt.gdb is elf linked at 0, .bflt is bflt binary itself
13:52:44Torneanyway. yes, the data at the site the reloc offset points to is also part of the relocation
13:52:50Torneit is in network byte order, the same as the rest of bFLT
13:52:52Torneit is not payload data
13:54:11wodzcan't understand sorry
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13:59:52Tornewodz: i'm saying, there is no problem here
13:59:57Tornethat's how it's supposed to work
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14:00:16Tornethe value it points to is also part of the relocation entry, even though it's physically in a different place
14:00:21Torneso, it's also bigendian.
14:00:47Torneyour loader needs to interpret that as network byte order and call the appropriate conversion
14:01:14wodzI can't see anything like this in uclinux loader
14:04:50wodzhmm maybe the conversion is done with uninion trickery
14:22:49Tornewell, i haven't looked, but i would expect it's there somewhere :)
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14:33:57wodzOk it seems to do endian conversion somewhere deep in macros traversing. Thats a pitty description of bflt doesn't mention that not only tables are network ordered
14:34:16Tornewell, as i said, the data at the relocation site is also part of the relocation
14:34:21Torneits format and meaning is determined by the relocation type
14:34:33Torneso, it's also part of the relocation entry (just using some existing space to reduce the table size)
14:35:43wodzacked, but it is not obvious at first spot
14:40:58wodzTorne: so basicaly: fixme = (uint32_t *)((uintptr_t)load_base + reloc); *fixme = be32toh(*fixme) + load_base;
14:41:24Tornentoh really..
14:41:31Tornebut yeah, i think so
14:41:52wodzhmm not for every relocation type I guess
14:43:05wodzv4 of bflt seems to be just that
14:43:26wodzv5 do different things but I think it is abandoned
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16:21:14mortaliswodz: ping
16:23:45mortalisI've tested code that worked for your lcd It doesn't work for me. I get distorted image.
16:24:14mortalisif I remove 13-14 lines it works just fine
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16:27:06wodzI can't remember the details but all variants I tried had some issue. I'll retest later today to refresh my memory
16:28:33mortalisAlso, I noticed that distortion depends on VERT_PREIOD. If I set VERT_PERIOD = (1<<7)|(1<<6)|1; distortion is very little.
16:29:40wodzbut you said that with 13-14 commented out you have no distortion right?
16:31:05mortalisyes, but with this lines and VERT_PERIOD = (1<<7)|(1<<6)|1; distortion very small
16:31:48mortaliswithout 13-14 no distortion with any VERT_PERIOD value
16:32:32wodzdoes wps refresh correctly? I remember having weird visual effects with many partial updates running
16:35:33mortaliswait, i'll check it.
16:40:21mortaliswith 13-14 commented it's ok
16:41:17wodzok I'll test when I get home
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16:44:11wodzmortalis: please paste whole diff so I'll test exactly the same code variant as you
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17:02:28amayer[Saint]: did you look into the bug from last night?
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17:20:00webguestHello, im a standard Rockbox user but I noticed a minor problem with in the current build. in the file you have the option to switch graphical and numerical battery and volume control icons by (un)commenting some the WPS code lines. However the code is using %Vdb instead of %Vd(b). So the theme fails. Look at line 19 and 24 (sansa fuze v2 version).
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20:20:26wodzmortalis: ping
20:24:53amayeris there a better way to update RB instead of copy/replace the whole /.rockbox/ directory?
20:25:48amayerand does that overwrite your settings you have(ie. if you have a different theme installed?)
20:25:57gevaertsDepends on how you define "replace"
20:26:12gevaertsIf you overwrite it, settings and themes will still be there
20:26:29amayeryeah i mean overwrite
20:26:45amayerso then the settings and themes wont be affected?
20:28:55amayeris there a "user settings" file?
20:29:14amayerthat i could duplicate/backup my settings to another device?
20:29:28gevaertsThere's one settings file. It's not included in the zip file
20:30:05mortaliswodz: pong
20:30:23amayeroh that makes sence
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20:34:13wodzmortalis: you changed number of fields to unsigned short which is wrong
20:34:35wodzmortalis: this works only in 16bit mode
20:35:17wodzmy lcd is connected as 18bits and I am unable to initialize the panel in any other bus mode then 24b
20:36:49mortalisaccording to DS all lcdc regs 16bit
20:38:03wodznot LCD_DATA and LCD_BUFFER as this can take RGB888
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20:38:41mortalisah, yes
20:39:37wodzbut even accounting for this I am unable to get proper image with dma transfers and your code
20:40:57mortalisDid you noticed my change in lcd_data_transform. You should remove it, as your display need transform for initialization.
20:41:27wodzyes without this lcd can't initialize at all
20:44:22mortaliswodz: paste your whole diff, please
20:45:37wodzits crappy :-)
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20:47:14mortalisdo you have working code with dma transfers for your device?
20:47:40wodzI can't find it :/
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20:54:41mortalisI hope you noticed lcd_cmd(0x22); in lcd_update() and change it to proper command for your display.
21:00:10wodzmortalis: <- thats agains master
21:01:42wodzIt sends something to lcd and you can somehow recognize what it is but whole display is covered with colour strips slightly changing with every update
21:02:34bluebrotherhmm. Why do the manuals on the website say "version unknown-120625"?
21:03:00wodzcommented out change to lcd_update_rect() works I mean sending rgb565 data to this lcd works ok
21:03:17bluebrotherand it seems the html manuals haven't been rebuilt the last two or so weeks
21:03:54wodzearly spot :-)
21:04:26wodzthat supports thesis that noone reads manuals
21:05:26kugelwodz: why? it's not unavailable
21:05:57kugelit only shows nobody reads them carefully enough to notice they're outdated
21:06:36bluebrotherwell, have there been (important) changes to the manual the last couple of weeks?
21:06:53bluebrothersince those are rare it's not much of a problem looking at a manual that's two weeks old :)
21:07:42 Join PwnsomeWin [0] (
21:08:05PwnsomeWinhello i'm new to the rockbox community
21:08:20bertrikhi PwnsomeWin
21:08:26bluebrotherthis can happen :)
21:08:42 Quit PwnsomeWin (Client Quit)
21:08:50 Join PwnsomeWin [0] (
21:09:36PwnsomeWinright now i'm trying to make a new port
21:09:43PwnsomeWini opened the mp3 player up
21:09:56PwnsomeWinbtw its a Creative MuVo v100
21:10:04mortaliswodz: llp_setup(FBADDR(0,i), (void*)(&LCD_BUFF+(i%4)*LCD_WIDTH), &scr_llp[i], LCD_WIDTH/2); whould be replaced with llp_setup(FBADDR(0,i), (void*)(&LCD_BUFF+(i%4)*LCD_WIDTH/2), &scr_llp[i], LCD_WIDTH/2);
21:10:35mortalisbecause LCD_BUF unsigned long in master
21:11:14PwnsomeWindo i have to use a flatbed scanner to get a pic of the inside of the mp3 player
21:11:31PwnsomeWincause i have a pretty good camera
21:11:45wodzPwnsomeWin: you can use digital camera with good macro lens as well
21:11:45 Quit PwnsomeWin (Client Quit)
21:14:15wodzmortalis: pretty much better now but still not perfect. Every update causes visual glitch
21:16:43 Join PwnsomeWin [0] (
21:16:52mortaliswodz: it with commented while (DWDMA_CTL_L(0) & (1<<27)) yield();?
21:17:00PwnsomeWindid anybody answer me, cuase the client went weird
21:17:38wodz<wodz> PwnsomeWin: you can use digital camera with good macro lens as well
21:17:48wodzmortalis: yes
21:18:02gevaertsPwnsomeWin: basically the point is to be able to identify the chips in there. If your photos are good enough for that, that's fine
21:18:12PwnsomeWinwell my camera is refusing to take a picture
21:18:14mortalisand what if you uncomment it?
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21:21:10wodzmortalis: with uncomented while (DWDMA_CTL_L(0) & (1<<27)) yield(); 1/3 of the display is garbage on the right hand side
21:22:09PwnsomeWinok how do i make a wiki page? does somebody need to give me permission?
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21:24:26gevaertsPwnsomeWin: yes. What's your wiki name?
21:25:57mortaliswodz: i messud up with VERT_PERIOD. The best result i received when VERT_PERIOD = (1<<7)|(1<<3)|1;
21:26:22gevaertsPwnsomeWin: ok, you should be able to edit stuff now
21:26:57PwnsomeWincan i add my port page also?
21:27:14gevaertsThat should work, yes
21:29:27bertrikPwnsomeWin, do you know what kind of processor is in there?
21:29:40wodzmortalis: definitely not for my lcd - it looks like if it skip every second column of pixels
21:29:43PwnsomeWintrying to figure that out
21:30:46PwnsomeWinthe mp3 player is actually two parts, one comes off and connects to the computer. i opened up the other part, and im not sure which one has the processor
21:31:02PwnsomeWinhow do i make a wiki page?
21:31:25bertrikIt's probably not much use yet to start a port page until you have at least an idea of the kind of processor in the player, IMO
21:31:26wodzPwnsomeWin: simply enter unique, valid wiki address
21:32:13PwnsomeWini'll see if i can figure out the processor
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21:32:31wodzmortalis: the image jumps up and down occasionally producing distorted image. This pretty much looks like it misses whole 4 line transfer
21:33:15wodzmortalis: switching to bypass mode produce glitch also
21:35:51mortaliswodz: sounds similar to what I can see when while (DWDMA_CTL_L(0) & (1<<27)) yield(); uncommented
21:36:05PwnsomeWinis there like a site that shows different processors?
21:38:23wodzPwnsomeWin: simply show your photos - some of us are more or less familiar with typical uC used in mp3 players
21:39:02PwnsomeWini dont even know if i opened the part with the processor, but ok
21:40:23PwnsomeWinalso i dunno if the quality is enough to tell
21:41:06wodzmortalis: interestingly show_logo() at the very begining has wrapped around lines - first 4 are garbage, then logo is quite ok and final update places version string in place of this garbage lines instead of the bottom
21:41:50bertrikour wiki page mentions a "Creative MuVo" as having a STMP3520
21:42:28PwnsomeWindoes that apply to all MuVos?
21:43:14bertrikI don't know
21:43:35PwnsomeWinok, gotta get on this irc from my other computer with the pic
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21:44:38PwnsomeWinok the image is here
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21:45:33PwnsomeWinalso do the wiki pages have some format or something?
21:46:41wodzPwnsomeWin: this picture doesn't show anything usefull
21:46:54PwnsomeWini didnt think so
21:47:23PwnsomeWinit has that usb connector in the way
21:48:04mortaliswodz: yes, I see it all the time. Even when while(DWDMA_CTL_L(0) & (1<<27))yield(); commented and everything else works fine.
21:49:37PwnsomeWinthere is a black thing above the usb connector that says 2206x
21:51:46wodzPwnsomeWin: it pretty much looks like protection diode
21:52:06bertrikpamaury, I think you looked at stmp3500 before, right?
21:52:23pamaurythat's the dsp based one right ?
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21:53:53wodzmortalis: thats my crappy diff which works best (but still not 100% correct)
21:54:39pamaurybertrik: why this question ?
21:55:11PwnsomeWinbecause i have a mp3 player that may use it
21:55:15PwnsomeWinand i want to port it
21:55:21bertrikI suspect that's the SoC inside the Creative MuVo that PwnsomeWin has
21:57:22pamauryPwnsomeWin: I don't want to prevent you from anything, but that will really really really be a hard task
21:57:39PwnsomeWinwell i thought it might be
21:57:46PwnsomeWinbut why?
21:57:48pamaurythe main problem here is the cpu
21:58:00PwnsomeWinwhat about the cpu?
21:58:05pamaurythat's a dsp, it can only do word accesses iirc and a word is 24-bits
21:58:39bertrikand possibly the muvo doesn't have dram, so probably limited to the on-chip memory
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21:59:13pamaurythere is only one compiler I know for it, it's based on gcc 1.37, it doesn't even compile without ugly hacks
21:59:36PwnsomeWinwhat would be the first step to making a port for it?
22:00:36pamauryit has a weird memory architecture too (dsp) with two data buses, no bus can access the entire memory so you really want to have both so it's a nightmare c-wise
22:00:36pamauryand the compiler source code has comments like "this won't generate correct code". The first step would probably be to rewrite a compiler :-/
22:01:08PwnsomeWinand that'd take a while i assume?
22:01:11pamauryOr trust this one but there won't be anyone to help you since it's so old and not documented
22:01:29PwnsomeWinwhat language would i use to write a compiler? c?
22:01:43pamaurywell, the word=24-bit part is really weird, I guess most compilers will choke on that
22:02:30pamaurydepends, the best option is to port either gcc or llvm. gcc is in c (+lots of macros and said to te difficult to hack), llvm is in c++
22:02:57mortaliswodz: I tried to run wps with your previous diff, and I see issues with partial updates as you described. I think the reason of it is frequent switching between 24bit and 16bit
22:03:01pamauryhonestly, if you want to hack something, I think hack a more modern mp3 is a better idea :)
22:03:24PwnsomeWinwell, i have 4 other mp3 players
22:03:35PwnsomeWin3 of them are sansa, and all have a stable port
22:03:45pamauryand it's real old also so the amount of memory on it is ridiculous
22:03:48PwnsomeWinthe last is my ipod shuffle 2g, but i have no idea where it is
22:04:18PwnsomeWinany ideas of a modern mp3 player that doesnt have a stable port?
22:04:45pamaurydepends on what you want to do, on the amount of work you are ready to to, and your knowledge
22:04:52mortaliswodz: in last diff you changed only vert_period and partial updates?
22:04:58bluebrotherdo you want to _hack_ or do you want to hack _a new port_? There is plenty of work that can be done using the existing ports
22:05:06PwnsomeWini have knowledge in a few programming languages if that helps
22:05:18 Join [Saint_] [0] (~Saint]@unaffiliated/saint/x-8516940)
22:05:32PwnsomeWini guess id hack an existing port, makes more sense since im new to this stuff
22:05:53wodzmortalis: and reordered things slightly in lcd_update()
22:06:20pamauryin any case you need to know c and low-level programming in c most precisely. When you are used to hack an existing softyware, you can move to a more challenging hack :)
22:06:23bluebrotheralso, there is other stuff than the firmware part of Rockbox you can look into if you're interested
22:06:45bluebrotherhow about fixing nano2g USB issues? ;-)
22:06:58PwnsomeWinfirst i gotta get a nano 2g
22:07:01PwnsomeWinhow much?
22:07:08[Saint_]Not necessarily.
22:07:32[Saint_]Plenty of seven work on targets they don't own.
22:07:50[Saint_]If they didn't, we'd have much leas ports I'd position.
22:08:12kugelcan anyone decipher FS #12703?
22:08:13fs-bluebot Clip Zip Crash and Device Not Succesfully installed (bugs, unconfirmed)
22:08:18[Saint_](Today is not typing day...)
22:08:23PwnsomeWinhaha its fine
22:08:37CIA-47Commit 5785cfb in rockbox by Marcin Bukat: Add fms to cabbiev2 by default
22:09:03PwnsomeWinis there an existing port that is inactive?
22:09:17[Saint_]The nano2g is still quite available though, and cheap.
22:09:22wodzPwnsomeWin: sure
22:09:26 Join Scromple [0] (~Simon@
22:09:33[Saint_]Around $40~50 USD
22:09:42PwnsomeWinthats pretty good
22:10:45[Saint_]Its one of the more powerful targets too. Its actually very nice hardware but some people don't like the form factor, the capacity, and lack of external storage.
22:10:59[Saint_]But its one of the more capable players for sure.
22:11:07wodz...and lack of documentation
22:11:08 Join webguest23 [0] (
22:11:28[Saint_]wodz: that's not just a Nano2g thing though :)
22:11:55PwnsomeWinis there anything i can do to stable ports?
22:12:14bluebrotherother stuff that comes into my mind are (a) TTS in Rockbox (b) test system (need to get my prototype cleaned up and published somewhere)
22:12:25bluebrotherPwnsomeWin: that would be (a)
22:12:30bluebrotheror write unit tests :)
22:12:44bluebrotherI really like to see unit tests but nobody is motivated to work on that :)
22:12:49wodzport png into core
22:12:59PwnsomeWinwhat is TTS?
22:13:05wodztext to speach
22:13:07bluebrotherText To Speech
22:13:12*bluebrother too slow
22:13:15PwnsomeWinthat would be awesome
22:13:23PwnsomeWindo any ports already have tts?
22:13:33wodzPwnsomeWin: no
22:13:43bluebrotherno port does have a TTS
22:14:02bluebrotherwe use prerendered clips for voice support, but that obviously only works for stuff we can prerender.
22:14:11bluebrotherand it requires the user to prerender the clips first
22:14:24PwnsomeWinshould i make tts for the clip+ or clip?
22:14:26wodzPwnsomeWin: if you are interested in TTS stuff I can share my work in this area.
22:14:27bluebrotheroh, and then there's always
22:14:36PwnsomeWinim interested in tts stuff
22:14:58bluebrotherPwnsomeWin: if you want to include a TTS in Rockbox it should work on all players (well, all that have the necessary capabilities)
22:15:05PwnsomeWinoh ok
22:15:08wodzPwnsomeWin: basically you have two options - eSpeak or flite.
22:15:16bluebrotherthere has been a GSoC project for that but it failed
22:15:19PwnsomeWindifference between them?
22:15:54wodzcrude port of eSpeak exists but in its current shape is not any near to be commitable
22:16:30*bluebrother suggests the pdf linked on that wiki page
22:16:34wodzflite is more advanced, gives better results but is technically harder to adapt and needs considerably more runtime resources
22:16:43webguest23do any of you guys deal with the builtin theme codes? only i noticed an error in the classic_statusbar theme which comes as default
22:16:46PwnsomeWinill go for eSpeak
22:16:54bluebrotherthere's also a potential license issue with espeak
22:17:30*bluebrother suggests to do some research before deciding which engine to use
22:17:31wodzit is not - we agreed that keeping good code separation with defines is enough
22:17:45bluebrotherwe did? Ok, fine with me then.
22:18:06wodzI mean we need to be able to compile v2+ only part or v3 if one wants
22:19:03PwnsomeWinbrb again
22:19:05 Quit PwnsomeWin (Quit: CGI:IRC)
22:19:06wodzanyway porting eSpeak is quite easy but still it is considerable amount of work to do it cleanly
22:19:50bluebrotherah, this was discussed during last years DevCon. That's why I was missing it :)
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22:20:45PwnsomeWinbrb dinner
22:22:16bertrikhm, png looks doable
22:22:36bluebrotherdidn't also the SoC TTS project hit some snakes with espeak?
22:22:42bluebrotheror was that flite?
22:22:51bluebrotherah :)
22:23:19*bertrik wonders about the TTS recently discovered in a range of not-too-expensive mp3 players
22:23:48bertrikthere was a thread recently on the forum about this, I'll see if I can find it again
22:23:50bluebrotherthat would indeed be interesting
22:24:01wodzThe problem with flite is that it heavily uses malloc(). It is virtually impossible to get rid of this allocations so the solution is to live with it.
22:25:37wodzI hacked flite to use tlsf + simple allocator and it works this way. It needs ~4MB of runtime mem IIRC.
22:25:43 Quit webguest23 (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
22:26:29wodzbertrik: the thread was about closed source solution so not very useful
22:27:07PwnsomeWinim back
22:27:52bluebrotherso it's kinda useable for the 16MiB+ targets
22:29:38wodzeSpeak is much less memory hungry and has constant footprint
22:30:53amayerif i want to make and submit a theme what is proper etiquette?
22:30:55amayerdo i make it for devices i own and can test on or try and make it for 5 or 6 standard resolutions?
22:32:06bluebrotheramayer: see
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22:32:25wodzamayer: You can always use simulator to test themes
22:32:28bluebrothermaking the theme for various resolutions is a nice thing but not necessary
22:33:02 Quit [Saint_] (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
22:33:59PwnsomeWini choose espeak
22:35:41wodzFS #7660 is a good start
22:35:42fs-bluebot Plugin espeak TTS engine for rockbox (patches, unconfirmed)
22:36:01PwnsomeWinis that the one you told me about?
22:38:16PwnsomeWinso how do i start?
22:38:20PwnsomeWinafter downloading it
22:38:27 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
22:39:03flaushyfor rockbox on clip+ being my first dedicated mp3player and using it for 48 hours now i have to say: well done rockbox team! I love it.
22:40:16PwnsomeWini have the source
22:40:20PwnsomeWinfor the espeak thing
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22:44:59saratogaPwnsomeWin: do you know how to program?
22:45:22PwnsomeWini do mostly java, but i know a bit a c
22:45:31*bluebrother runs
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22:50:58bluebrotherPwnsomeWin: how exactly does your programming / language experience look like?
22:51:10PwnsomeWinwhat do you mean?
22:51:32bluebrotherwhich languages, how long etc
22:51:43mortaliswodz: you have better results with while(DWDMA_CTL_L(0) & (1<<27))yield(); or without it?
22:51:51PwnsomeWini only know basics in c
22:51:56PwnsomeWinjava like 2 years
22:51:57PwnsomeWinand i g2g
22:52:03 Quit PwnsomeWin (Quit: CGI:IRC)
22:52:16 Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection)
22:54:38wodzmortalis: better with yield() thing
22:55:35 Quit Strife89 (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
22:55:42wodzby better I mean less glitches
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23:09:44 Part amayer
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23:22:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:24:42belakIve got the sansa fuze... and idk if I have a v1 or v2... I installed rockbox a while ago, but I don't remember how to get into the original firmware to check... how can I do that?
23:27:45bluebrotherthe probably easiest way it to either check the file rockbox-info.txt
23:27:55bluebrotheror use Rockbox Utility and autodetect the player.
23:28:26bluebrotheras for booting into the Sandisk firmware you need to hold a button while booting. Check the manual for which one (left? Not sure)
23:28:55belakAh, o
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23:32:36bertrikflaushy, appreciated :)
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23:45:01belakIs it possible to use the RockboxUtility with the iPod classic and dev builds?
23:46:58bluebrotherno, if by "classic" you mean the Ipod 6G
23:47:21bluebrotherthen no, since there is no support for the 6G in Rockbox Utility
23:47:46bluebrotherwe could add support for installing builds though. Bootloader ... no (at least not easily)
23:47:58bluebrotherwell, installing a build is simply unzipping a zip archive
23:48:09belakI've got it installed just fine... just want a decent way to manage themes
23:48:11bluebrotherso it's not that complicated
23:48:33bluebrotherif you can compile Rockbox Utility you can get that going rather easily
23:48:54belakWhat would I have to change?
23:49:05bluebrotheror figure a differetn player with the same screen and use that instead :)
23:49:13bluebrotheradd a new player in rbutil.ini
23:49:24bluebrotherlike the gigabeats
23:49:39bluebrotherbut with the correct values for the 6g of course :)
23:49:58 Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:50:02bluebrotherthe you can do almost everything except installing the bootloader
23:50:12*bluebrother considers adding the 6G as disabled target
23:51:53belakIs it possible to use the rbutil to get dev builds?
23:55:07bluebrotherhmm. Why does the development builds page not have the classic but the build table?
23:55:15bluebrotherthis is ... inconsistent :)
23:55:22belakIt's not listed, but it's there
23:55:34bluebrotherit's listed in the build table
23:56:07bluebrotherso it's listed, but only in one of two tables :)
23:57:16gevaertsbluebrother: it's "unusable". The dev builds page has "unstable" and up
23:57:47belakgevaerts: "unusable"? Well... it works just fine, apart from the bootloader
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23:58:07gevaertsbelak: "unusable a technical term here :)
23:58:13gevaertsbelak: "unusable" is a technical term here :)
23:58:46gevaertsYou can only get promoted to "unstable" if you can install using only tools
23:58:53bluebrothergevaerts: hmm. But it might make sense to add it to the other table as well −− after all they are development builds ;-)

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