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| 00:09:26 | gevaerts | Seems to be a themesite issue. The daily checkwps run doesn't work well... |
| 00:13:18 | lebellium | hum ok |
| 00:19:09 | kugel | gevaerts: database locket? |
| 00:19:14 | kugel | locked* |
| 00:19:23 | gevaerts | yes |
| 00:26:45 | kugel | i just saw that when browsing the sitre |
| 00:28:02 | gevaerts | We're doing something wrong with database accesses, but I'm not sure yet what exactly |
| 00:37:48 | * | gevaerts tells the database to use WAL instead of the older locking mechanism |
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| 00:51:44 | kugel | gevaerts: "DFKT Minimum X5 v3 INV Theme" says it "works with current build" on the theme overview (for x5) but "doesnt work with current build" on the theme details page |
| 00:52:15 | gevaerts | Yes, that only *looks* like an inconsistency though :) |
| 00:52:54 | gevaerts | The issue there is that on the overview the target is known, and on the detail page the first found target is used IIRC |
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| 00:53:23 | kugel | wait what? that makes no sense :) |
| 00:53:36 | kugel | the url has the target string |
| 00:55:19 | gevaerts | I might be wrong, but as far as I remember that's not actually used to pick the right one |
| 00:56:19 | gevaerts | Right. The code seems to agree with that |
| 01:00 |
| 01:03:09 | lebellium | I guess I already reported that here some months ago but I think mixing b&w and color themes for targets with the same screen resolution is a very bad idea. The color themes you can download in the H1x0 category (originally made for H10 20GB or X5) are just unusable on the H120 when auto-converted to grey-levels color |
| 01:07:31 | gevaerts | OK, the checkwps run is done, with a lot of handholding... |
| 01:07:53 | gevaerts | H10 and X5 now have the same themes |
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| 01:12:05 | gevaerts | lebellium: I think I agree, but I'm not sure how to even tell the difference from code... |
| 01:12:34 | gevaerts | Base it on the upload target?> |
| 01:13:50 | saratoga | gevaerts: did you get a chance to look into approving new accounts on the forums? |
| 01:15:03 | gevaerts | saratoga: I haven't done anything since last time, really |
| 01:15:33 | gevaerts | I should be able to get to it soon though. The cold that made me a bit inactive seems to be going away |
| 01:18:09 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 01:18:10 | saratoga | thanks |
| 01:18:47 | lebellium | gevaerts: Isn't it possible to add a b&w/color field to each target? I assume there is already a touch/non touch field to make the difference between the themes for Cowon D2 and those for iPod video for instance? |
| 01:21:59 | gevaerts | lebellium: there isn't, actually |
| 01:22:26 | gevaerts | The theme site knows about resolution and checkwps results |
| 01:24:44 | lebellium | hum then why are there 105 themes for the iPod video but only 71 for the D2? I thought it was because only "touch-ready" themes display for the D2 |
| 01:24:57 | lebellium | this theme website is a bit difficult to understand sometimes :S |
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| 01:26:25 | gevaerts | I checked one of those. It had touch areas that checkwps for the D2 doesn't like |
| 01:26:41 | gevaerts | (and which are entirely skipped by checkwps for non-touch) |
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| 01:29:04 | lebellium | ok, makes sense now. But that's far from being optimal in my opinion. |
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| 01:31:15 | gevaerts | I don't think adding a flag every time someone spots a feature difference is a good solution. Maybe we need a bit more information, but not without proper thinking |
| 01:32:56 | gevaerts | You risk ending up with either unclear heuristics to deduce the flags based on the theme, or asking the uploader to supply lots of extra information that might be wrong |
| 01:35:41 | lebellium | well... actually among all current (and future?) targets, I only see 2 relevant infos needed: b&w or color display , and touch or non-touch device. If that info is linked to the target when it is added to the theme website, the guy who uploads a new theme has nothing to do but to select the appropriate target, no? |
| 01:39:47 | gevaerts | Well, first of all, there are monochrome, greyscale and colour targets. It's not as simple as monochrome or colour :) How are these handled? Do colour targets get all themes, or only colour themes? |
| 01:40:51 | gevaerts | Same for touchscreen, do touchscreen targets get all themes (remember, there's grid mode which some people even like!)? Do non-touchscreen targets get all themes? |
| 01:41:01 | lebellium | the question is: how many people install a monochrome/greyscale theme on a color target? I'm maybe wrong but I assume almost nobody? :) |
| 01:41:12 | gevaerts | Why not? I don't know |
| 01:41:57 | saratoga | could we just have people check a "color" box when uploading themes? |
| 01:43:03 | gevaerts | We could, or we could assume the theme matches the primary target they're uploading for |
| 01:44:13 | saratoga | that would work |
| 01:49:36 | gevaerts | I think touchscreen is a lot harder to do automatically. Simple touchscreen themes will work fine on a non-touchscreen target, but some of those fancy themes won't work well at all. On the other hand, a simple non-touchscreen theme can be made usable on touchscreen with just a few touch areas, while the author primarily focuses on non-touchscreen and will upload for those |
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| 01:56:20 | lebellium | the thing is that you don't design a theme for a touchscreen and non-touchscreen device the same way. For a touchscreen device you need bigger icons (play/pause/prev/next etc) to touch. I personnally would not want such a theme on a non-touchscreen device. But probably some people don't care about that |
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| 02:18:10 | Armitaage | hi there. i have a bit of a problem that i'm not sure if it is answered elsewhere. My Sansa Fuze is behaving really strangely, it refuses to charge and claims that the playlist control file is invalid. i have tried updating the bootloader and rockbox, but the problem persists |
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| 02:19:06 | saratoga | i'd check the file system for errors, and see if there is a playlist control file you can delete |
| 02:19:37 | Armitaage | where should i look to do that? |
| 02:20:00 | saratoga | rockbox folder i guess |
| 02:21:01 | Armitaage | oh, and one other problem that i noticed. i can't connect mp3 player to comp in rockbox mode, it crashes every time |
| 02:23:19 | Armitaage | says "data abort at 30051578 FSR 0x8 adress 0xAC5E5DD4 pc:30051578 sp:300A2ED4 bt end" |
| 02:24:55 | saratoga | FS #12184 ? |
| 02:24:57 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12184 Fuze V1 locking when transferring files Rockbox 3.9 (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 02:25:01 | saratoga | depending which fuze you have |
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| 02:32:34 | Armitaage | yeah, looks like that is my issue, but i don't see the bug having been resolved. and what i see in the comments is mostly more reports of the bug, but no solutions. |
| 02:35:36 | saratoga | yeah been hoping someone who has that problem would tell me which commit broke it for over a year now |
| 02:39:37 | Armitaage | i'm trying by reinstalling rockbox from the ground up, starting with the latest stable release |
| 02:39:57 | saratoga | i wouldn't bother |
| 02:40:09 | saratoga | its probably just some file system corruption |
| 02:40:18 | saratoga | that playlist thing anyway |
| 02:40:59 | Armitaage | my player is completely unusable, and i need to be able to use it, lol. it has all my music on the go |
| 02:41:35 | saratoga | did you check the file system for errors? |
| 02:42:25 | Armitaage | how would i do that? sorry, not a dev, a user here |
| 02:43:21 | saratoga | assuming your'e on windows, my computer > properties of the disk drive, check for errors |
| 02:43:29 | saratoga | if you're on some other OS, check the documentation |
| 02:48:18 | Armitaage | hmmm...simply deleting the playlist control file seems to have fixed at least the resume playback function....but connecting to the pc is still icky |
| 02:48:39 | saratoga | yeah, probably just a corrupted file |
| 02:49:05 | Armitaage | computer seems to not recognize the device |
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| 03:05:51 | Armitaage | well, it's not really a fix, but i have a way to get to my music, charge, and connect to the comp. but it requires me to mess with things that i shouldn't have to |
| 03:07:05 | Armitaage | everytime i want to change playlists i have to delete my playlist control file and restart the device, and it might take me several tries before i can access the player via my computer >.< |
| 03:07:58 | Armitaage | that's pretty sucky, but it's all i've been able to do. thanks for the advice, though ^-^ |
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| 03:20:50 | saratoga | i would just use the sandisk USB mode if you have the problem in the FS task |
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| 05:41:23 | saratoga | [7]: does the Classic support 48k? |
| 05:41:45 | saratoga | i see it defines it in the config file |
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| 05:56:13 | saratoga | i'm confused by the sample rate code for the ipods |
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| 05:57:46 | saratoga | whats the difference between audiohw_set_frequency and pcm_set_frequency ? |
| 05:59:20 | saratoga | in wm8975.c audiohw_set_frequency is a null op, but in cs42l55.c it actually changes the rate |
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| 06:12:15 | saratoga | actually, does anyone have an ipod classic who can test a patch? |
| 06:21:34 | saratoga | http://mit.edu/mgg6//www/rockbox_classic_sampr.zip |
| 06:21:46 | saratoga | if someone would install that build and then run the test_sampr plugin |
| 06:21:50 | saratoga | and see if 48k works |
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| 06:26:59 | saratoga | by works i guess plays a tone that sounds right |
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| 10:27:55 | kugel | JdGordon: ping |
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| 10:31:57 | [Saint] | <lebellium> the thing is that you don't design a theme for a touchscreen and non-touchscreen device the same way. |
| 10:32:03 | [Saint] | I'm gonna disagree here. |
| 10:32:15 | [Saint] | Because, that's simply not true. |
| 10:32:46 | [Saint] | If we're talking about an "ideal world" then, maybe. |
| 10:33:00 | [Saint] | If we're talking about cabbiev2, then, certainly not. |
| 10:33:06 | kugel | having done themes for both I agree with him |
| 10:33:51 | [Saint] | There's no reason to do so, though, but I think we've established before that your german fingers are siimply too fat :) |
| 10:34:15 | kugel | i think he just meant that you approach differently depending on whether a theme is going to be touch-enabled or not |
| 10:34:36 | [Saint] | But, I don't...though. It can, and should, cater for both cases. |
| 10:34:42 | kugel | I'm not saying you cannot do themes that work equally well on both |
| 10:34:58 | [Saint] | there's no need to have two themes for a target that shares almost everything, except entry type. |
| 10:35:10 | [Saint] | ZYou can detect, and switch conditionally. |
| 10:35:21 | [Saint] | this is why we have a "is touchscreen?" check. |
| 10:36:07 | kugel | by switching conditionally you take a (perhaps only slighly) different design route |
| 10:36:14 | [Saint] | I used to make a habit of coding in touch regions for non-touch targets just in case the user might *one day* find a touch target to use it on. |
| 10:36:42 | kugel | he said that the design differs, but both design can be in the same theme with a bit of work |
| 10:38:34 | kugel | the point is: if you make one theme that's specifically for button-targets and one that's specifically for touchscreens, they will be different |
| 10:38:59 | [Saint] | I think I've proved otherwise there, and I stand by that. |
| 10:39:00 | kugel | however with compromises and/or hard work you can build both into the same theme |
| 10:39:52 | [Saint] | My 240x320 theme is *exactly* the same for touch/non-touch. Only the larger sizes differ, because they can, and have room to. They don't *have* to, though. |
| 10:40:47 | [Saint] | Anyway, the reason why I brought it up is that I don't think "touchscreen" is a valid flag to determine what target is allowed which theme. |
| 10:41:11 | kugel | yea |
| 10:41:43 | kugel | even non-touch-enabled themes work fine in grid mode so it's not unreasonable to show them |
| 10:42:57 | [Saint] | and things like bars automagically make their own touch areas now, so a "simple" theme that includes absolutely no touch regions will at least be partly usable without any user intervention in absolute point mode. |
| 10:43:12 | [Saint] | its a very blurred line. |
| 10:44:00 | kugel | the automatic touch region for bars dont make it touch-enabled |
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| 10:44:24 | kugel | it will change to back grid mode automatically |
| 10:45:10 | kugel | even then, partuly usable would still be unusable if you cannot leave the wps |
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| 11:58:11 | lebellium | [Saint]: I had the example of my theme in head. For example the 240*320 theme: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1563 If we get a 240*320 touchscreen target one day, I don't see how my theme coud be compatible unless you want to touch the small play/pause icon in the top corner. I obviously designed it for a non-touchscreen target |
| 11:58:28 | [Saint] | "one day"? |
| 11:58:41 | [Saint] | There's millions of them. literally. |
| 11:59:25 | lebellium | I mean if we ever get a 240*320 touchscreen target* |
| 11:59:30 | lebellium | sorry for my english mistakes |
| 11:59:45 | [Saint] | And, I still meant "one day?" |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:02 | [Saint] | Its one the the single most popular smartphone resolutions. |
| 12:00:07 | [Saint] | you're not thinking about RaaA. |
| 12:01:10 | lebellium | Indeed (for me 800*480 sounds more popular but there are many low-end android smartphones with bad 240*320 screen) |
| 12:01:13 | [Saint] | There shouldn't be any need for a "touchscreen theme" or a "non-touch theme", in my honest opinion, the reason there is such a thing is because theme authors are lazy. |
| 12:01:50 | [Saint] | It is entirely possible for the same theme to handle both cases, and *every* theme should. |
| 12:02:52 | lebellium | I don't see how that? Most themes have a single play/pause/next/prev/stop/recording icon because you don't need to display them all at the same time for a non-touchscreen device. And that saves space on the screen |
| 12:03:29 | [Saint] | so, display and position the items conditionally. |
| 12:03:46 | [Saint] | this is why we have a "is touchscreen?" condition. |
| 12:05:27 | [Saint] | "play/pause/next/prev/stop/recording" this also isn't a particularly good example. play/pause/stop can share a single space, and recording has its own screen, so the same control space can be used to stop/start recording. |
| 12:06:41 | [Saint] | "play/pause/stop" can easily be the same control space, with three different icons. The touchscreen cabbies all do this. |
| 12:06:58 | lebellium | Indeed. But you still need to display at least 3 icons: prev, next and play/pause. It's technically possible to doing it conditionally as you said but I don't know where I would get the space on my theme for that 2 more icons without redesigning it completely |
| 12:07:50 | [Saint] | if your theme has no visual representation of those cases for the "non-touch" case, then, (IMO) it is lacking to begin with. |
| 12:10:13 | [Saint] | (notice the "IMO", I think a theme should *always* display the current play state via some form on "universal icon" >>/<</|>>/<<|/>/||/[]) |
| 12:10:48 | lebellium | kill the design to support the touchscreen 240*320 targets with the same theme? I won't and I assume other designers won't either. That's why I proposed to make a touchscreen/ non-touchscreen flag. |
| 12:11:29 | [Saint] | or, just....don't design for that resolution? |
| 12:11:44 | [Saint] | the touchscreen/non-touch thing *IS A REALLY BAD IDEA* |
| 12:12:01 | [Saint] | it is totally needless, and sets up more failure cases than it could fix. |
| 12:13:48 | [Saint] | If you can't fit basic user controls onscreen at all times without compromise, though, it seems to me that the theme needs to be re-thought anyway. |
| 12:13:53 | [Saint] | ...but, that's just me. |
| 12:14:47 | [Saint] | and, sorry, but I do see play state as a "basic user control" that *needs* a visual representation on a media player. Remember, these devices don't all have a nice hardware button for everything. |
| 12:14:55 | lebellium | Yeah that's a personal opinion. I think the contrary and will never redesign my theme that way. If I ever get a 240*320 touchscreen target I will just make a new theme optimized for it |
| 12:15:55 | [Saint] | well, I look at this from the perspective of the default theme. In Rockbox, we have touchscreen and non-touchscreen targets for 240x320, and I have *one* theme that covers both. |
| 12:16:09 | [Saint] | It wasn'tr easy to do, but, I did it and it works. |
| 12:16:57 | lebellium | what is your theme again? |
| 12:17:17 | lebellium | I don't know the real names by heart |
| 12:18:04 | [Saint] | I started to rework cabbiev2 for application builds (probably over a year ago now actually, ...heh), It's all in my github. |
| 12:18:40 | lebellium | so the cabbiev2 in my R0 is the same on a touchscreen target? |
| 12:19:30 | [Saint] | No, kugel took a slightly different approach. My work (with some debate and tinkering) should replace that or merge with it at a later stage. |
| 12:19:58 | lebellium | ah ok because from what I see currently on the R0 there is also a unique play/pause/stop/prev/next icon and I just find that OK |
| 12:20:30 | [Saint] | yeah, that's just...weird. |
| 12:20:43 | [Saint] | play/pause/stop *should* be the same icon, IMO. |
| 12:20:55 | [Saint] | well, not the same *icon*, but the same control space. |
| 12:21:15 | [Saint] | tap to play/pause, long tap to stop. |
| 12:21:17 | [Saint] | simple :) |
| 12:21:22 | lebellium | indeed |
| 12:21:34 | lebellium | the issue for me is only prev and next that would kill the design |
| 12:22:41 | [Saint] | if your "non-touch" variant included ffwd/rew icons, there'd be no issue. |
| 12:22:46 | [Saint] | you could reuse them. |
| 12:23:48 | [Saint] | tap to skip, long hold to seek. etc. |
| 12:25:24 | lebellium | indeed. But there is absolutely no more free space on my theme for 2 more icons. And on the 240*320 theme on the R0 I don't see free space either, I would be curious to see how you added the prev/next icons :) |
| 12:25:37 | lebellium | cabbiev2* |
| 12:25:54 | AlexP_ | kugel: Sorry, didin't get to look last night |
| 12:26:11 | AlexP_ | And I agree that touchscreen and non-touchscreen themes are different |
| 12:26:40 | AlexP_ | but anyway |
| 12:27:49 | [Saint] | AlexP_: I agree they're different too...I seem to be being misinterpreted. |
| 12:28:09 | AlexP_ | If you are using the have touchscreen tag then you are essentially designing two themes in one file |
| 12:28:12 | [Saint] | I agree they can be totally differnet, I do *not* agree, however, that there needs to be seperate themes for each case. |
| 12:28:48 | AlexP_ | I won't be adding the non touchscreen case to mine, show me a non touchscreen 720x1280 target first :) |
| 12:29:27 | [Saint] | you don't need to, see the beauty? your touch theme "just works" as long as there are HW keys. |
| 12:29:39 | AlexP_ | Why would I bother? |
| 12:29:43 | AlexP_ | There aren't any |
| 12:29:55 | AlexP_ | And it needs lots of conditional casing making it much more complicated |
| 12:30:25 | AlexP_ | It is a different design paradigm in many ways, I don't see how trying to force the two together makes sense |
| 12:30:29 | | Quit pretty_function (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 12:30:31 | [Saint] | the conditional casing is less complication that two themes for the same target. |
| 12:30:35 | AlexP_ | Sometimes it does, and then great |
| 12:30:39 | AlexP_ | I disagree with that |
| 12:30:55 | [Saint] | your case is individual, though, as there's no non-touch case for your resolution. |
| 12:31:10 | [Saint] | for shared targets, then, yeah...I think one theme should be handling both. |
| 12:31:17 | AlexP_ | One of the worst things you can do re touchscreen design is to try to force touch onto a standard theme, they just demand different things |
| 12:31:30 | AlexP_ | And I don't see the advantage of shoving two themes into one file |
| 12:32:13 | [Saint] | it would solve some of the nightmare that is the default theme. |
| 12:32:29 | AlexP_ | Not really |
| 12:32:46 | AlexP_ | That could be solved equally well, if not better, by having a touchscreen optimised default theme |
| 12:33:16 | [Saint] | ...that's what I'm trying to do.. |
| 12:33:36 | AlexP_ | I meant as a seperate entity |
| 12:33:45 | [Saint] | I just don't think it means I have to stop caring about non-touch cases to do so. |
| 12:33:45 | AlexP_ | If you can force both into one file, then great |
| 12:34:07 | AlexP_ | No, you ave different ones for each, each optimised for their use case |
| 12:34:22 | AlexP_ | Instead of one that (potentially) isn't ideal for either |
| 12:34:30 | AlexP_ | No if you can manage that in one, then great |
| 12:34:39 | AlexP_ | s/No/Now/ |
| 12:34:42 | AlexP_ | But anyway, there isn't a right answer and the great thing about freedom of choice is freedom to do what you want :) |
| 12:35:37 | [Saint] | "No, you ave different ones for each, each optimised for their use case" if it was that way, I'd have left it alone :) |
| 12:35:46 | AlexP_ | ? |
| 12:36:05 | [Saint] | I took the opportunity to work on optimizing some of the ~4 year old theme code too, and saw that I could kill multiple birds, etc. |
| 12:36:40 | [Saint] | I wouldn't call the non-touch cabbie "optimal", is my point. But, I'm trying to get there. |
| 12:36:40 | AlexP_ | Whether they are in one file or two, they are different - perhaps to a small extent, perhaps to a large extent |
| 12:36:51 | AlexP_ | That is very subjective |
| 12:36:59 | AlexP_ | As is pretty much everything about themeing |
| 12:37:10 | [Saint] | obviously so :) |
| 12:37:28 | AlexP_ | Right, so you can't say, this is right, that is wrong (a generic you) |
| 12:38:11 | [Saint] | There's brand name me's? |
| 12:38:22 | AlexP_ | heh :) |
| 12:38:37 | AlexP_ | I meant one, not you personally :) |
| 12:38:43 | [Saint] | I also think you missed the points where I've stated "this is my opinion". Its not a right/wrong thing...I don't care what he does. |
| 12:38:58 | [Saint] | Ohhhhh, wow...I took that wrong, then :) |
| 12:39:25 | AlexP_ | You also said things like "that's simply not true." |
| 12:39:33 | AlexP_ | Which isn't the case |
| 12:39:37 | AlexP_ | But anyway |
| 12:40:13 | [Saint] | Its non-false as well...hmmm. |
| 12:40:20 | AlexP_ | It is your opinion |
| 12:40:25 | AlexP_ | Truth doesn't come into it |
| 12:40:26 | [Saint] | Heh, yeah. Subjective stuff. |
| 12:41:01 | AlexP_ | yep |
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| 12:54:02 | kugel | one design thing that will always differ between touch and non-touch: non-touch shows the playing state (i.e. normally a play icon) while touchscreen shows a play state button (i.e. normally a pause button sicne pressing it pauses playback) |
| 12:55:18 | * | [Saint] should point out that he's not saying that themes should be *identical*, but rather that the design needn't vary simply because one target is touch and one isn't. |
| 12:56:13 | [Saint] | the above is a great example of this actually. |
| 12:56:25 | kugel | it's a design variation |
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| 12:56:59 | [Saint] | yes, it is...? |
| 12:57:04 | kugel | for non-touch you design icons as indicators, for touch you design them as buttons |
| 12:57:06 | [Saint] | (not sure where that was going) |
| 12:58:08 | [Saint] | It doesn't necessarily mean you design them differently, though, does it...or, it needn't have to. |
| 12:58:19 | [Saint] | I mean, you just used existing icons too...right? |
| 12:58:44 | kugel | yes sure. but the theme design (not the looks of the icons) is different |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:30 | [Saint] | so, when you say "but you design them as <foo>"...what does that mean exactly? |
| 13:00:41 | [Saint] | If you're not actually changing them at all, then...? |
| 13:01:00 | kugel | it does not just mean the look of the icons |
| 13:01:28 | [Saint] | sorry, when speaking about icons, I thought it was limited to icons. |
| 13:02:13 | kugel | icons are a subset of a theme design |
| 13:03:09 | kugel | with "design them as ..." i meant what purpose they are for, and therefore at which times they show up |
| 13:03:26 | [Saint] | sorry...I missed where you were going. You started with "one thing that must differ" (being the icons), and then stated that they in fact remain the same...and now, you're talking about other things...and, I'm lost. |
| 13:04:05 | kugel | I didn't mean that the icon graphics differ, but their purpose |
| 13:04:05 | [Saint] | Oooooh, right. You last post makes the original one a LOT easier to understand. |
| 13:05:03 | [Saint] | Yes, and my theme(s) are doing that too...because it's needed. But, that's the only part that differs (visually) between touch and no-touch. |
| 13:05:22 | kugel | so, even if you use the same graphics; in a non-touch theme icons act as indicator, while on a touch one they usually act as button label |
| 13:07:14 | kugel | this is what I meant by "approach differently depending on whether a theme is going to be touch-enabled or not" |
| 13:08:13 | [Saint] | and, that's where we part ways I think. As, I don't think a theme should be "touch only" unless it will only ever run on a touch enabled device. |
| 13:08:57 | [Saint] | though, perhaps you mean the touch case, or non-touch case, and not necessarily that it should be seperate themes. |
| 13:09:18 | kugel | i never said they need to be separate themes |
| 13:09:38 | kugel | i said it's doable to build both designs into the same theme |
| 13:10:13 | kugel | but it requires work and perhaps compromises so not everyone can be bothered |
| 13:13:13 | [Saint] | The entire point of me bringing it up, and the subsequent confusion...and then getting stuck on other topics, was due to me taking issue at the idea of the themesite checking for touch/non-touch, and just in case there's any more room for confusion: "I think it's a really bad idea" :) |
| 13:13:54 | [Saint] | This isn't me saying "all themes should handle all cases", however. |
| 13:15:08 | lebellium | if it's a bad idea but all themes should not necessarily handle all cases, then people with a touchscreen device will see a lot of unusable themes in their target category |
| 13:15:40 | [Saint] | lebellium: no, they will see exactly no unusable themes. |
| 13:15:47 | [Saint] | Every theme is usable to them. |
| 13:16:15 | [Saint] | You're forgetting about grid mode, which some people actually like. Which some people even use by coice. |
| 13:17:08 | [Saint] | If thetre's no touch tags present in a theme loaded on a touchscreen target the default used to be to switch to grid mode so that the currently loaded theme would still be usable. |
| 13:17:13 | [Saint] | I believe this is still the case. |
| 13:17:56 | lebellium | Indeed I forgot about that grid mode... |
| 13:18:24 | * | [Saint] just noticed that the *-800x480x16 and *-480x800x16 bitmaps are mostly (all?) identical. |
| 13:18:28 | [Saint] | lol, how did that happen? |
| 13:19:55 | [Saint] | ah, "mostly identical". |
| 13:20:28 | [Saint] | There's a few have been duplicated for seemingly no reason, probably to avoid naming collisions prior to commit(?). |
| 13:20:30 | lebellium | when talking about separate themes for touchscreen and non-touchscreen targets on the theme website I just had the touch tags in mind, I totally forgot about that grid mode, sorry |
| 13:20:47 | kugel | there could be a checkbox that hides grid-mode themes |
| 13:22:07 | [Saint] | or, do some magic and print something in the blurb like we do fr "works with <foo>" |
| 13:22:15 | [Saint] | s/fr/for/ |
| 13:23:00 | [Saint] | Ohhhhh....actually, this is a problem. |
| 13:23:11 | [Saint] | The new theme behaviour breaks this assumption. |
| 13:23:44 | [Saint] | There will now not *ever* be a case of a theme not having a touch tag present if it includes any bar-type tags. |
| 13:24:08 | kugel | did you read what I wrote above? |
| 13:24:42 | kugel | (above/earlier) |
| 13:24:49 | [Saint] | I did, yes. But I'm wondering how the new bar tag behaviour affects this. |
| 13:25:08 | [Saint] | Since they now draw all their touch areas automatically. |
| 13:25:21 | kugel | the automatic touch region for bars dont make it touch-enabled, it will change to back grid mode automatically |
| 13:25:26 | [Saint] | (and it needs to be specifically disabled by the author if this is unwanted) |
| 13:25:35 | kugel | you are wrong :) |
| 13:26:21 | kugel | the bar-tag regions are excluded from the logic which determines touch-enabledness |
| 13:26:34 | [Saint] | "the automatic touch region for bars dont make it touch-enabled" Oh, right. Well, that's a good thing. Slightly broken, but, broken in a way that works. |
| 13:27:23 | kugel | well, it's this way because JdGordon pushed it to be default |
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| 13:28:35 | [Saint] | the "slightly broken" bit I was referring to was the fact that the theme would have touch tags but still not technically be "touch enabled". |
| 13:28:59 | [Saint] | But, for the record, I don't like the default behaviour of the bar tag touch areas either...and, said so at the time. |
| 13:29:36 | kugel | i know |
| 13:30:08 | kugel | we're in the same boot in this case |
| 13:38:18 | lebellium | [Saint] I don't know if you did read that but from my tests the %s tag is necessary for the RDS text to properly scroll and that worked correctly in the older builds. Should I open a bug ticket on the website or the right people are already aware of all RDS issues? |
| 13:39:00 | n1s | saratoga: i could test on my classic, but it has to charge a bit first |
| 13:39:05 | [Saint] | I think "the right people" are aware already, but you should open a bug anyway. |
| 13:43:57 | kugel | lebellium: it would be nice if you could find the commit that introduced the problem (heard of git bisect?) |
| 13:45:37 | kugel | btw, could we tag the branch point? this would allow to bisect issues like "doesnt work in current build but last release" more easily |
| 13:47:50 | lebellium | kugel: that will be difficult as I don't compile builds myself, I just download builds on the RB website :S For the Clip Zip I used an old April build on my computer to compare with the latest builds but for the R0 lorenzo gave me a recent RDS build. That would be interesting to compile the RDS patch with an old build to see if that still makes my theme crash |
| 13:51:34 | [Saint] | setting up a development environment will take 30~60 mins. |
| 13:51:45 | [Saint] | bisection another ~60mins. |
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| 13:52:49 | lebellium | I'm using Windows 7, not Linux, I'm not in this development world (yet?) ;) |
| 13:55:13 | n1s | lebellium: set up a VM then! |
| 13:56:27 | lebellium | I already have a VM for Windows XP (necessary to run the Samsung recovery tools) but I don't have a single GB or MB left on my HDD for a new OS, the situation is critical lol |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:09:20 | [Saint] | couldn't you just run the recovery tools in compatibility mode? |
| 14:09:34 | [Saint] | I thought & was supposed to be entirely backward compatible still. |
| 14:09:40 | [Saint] | s/&/7/ |
| 14:10:45 | lebellium | The issue is just the drivers, The Samsung R&D in Korea lives in the past with 32-bit only drivers which can't be installed on any 64-bit OS. Yet, most computers run Win 7 64-bit.... |
| 14:11:12 | [Saint] | Hahahahah...in what world are you talking about? |
| 14:11:20 | [Saint] | "Most computers" run XP. |
| 14:11:52 | lebellium | I meant most computers sold today run Win 7 64-bit, not Win 7 32-bit except some netbooks |
| 14:16:17 | AlexP_ | I would object to having grid mode themes presented as touch themes |
| 14:16:20 | AlexP_ | They just aren't |
| 14:16:38 | AlexP_ | We would annoy a huge amount of people if we did that, they just aren't proper touch themes |
| 14:29:12 | kugel | i think it depends, there are targets where grid mode is default |
| 14:29:21 | kugel | e.g. cowond2 (iirc) |
| 14:30:55 | kugel | [Saint]: according to some sources win7 has surpassed win xp |
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| 14:36:03 | wodz | Ha, that was easy. Now I can load fully resolved elfs as plugins. I can't figure out how to strip elfs. plugins.make just don't like me. |
| 14:36:16 | wodz | Time to approach relocations... |
| 14:43:04 | lebellium | [Saint]: replacing your 20-DroidSans-Bold.fnt font I use for RDS text by another font like the Rocbox one, the R0 doesn't crash anymore but the RDS text still behaves crazy when scrolling. |
| 14:59:37 | lebellium | Oh! I found something interesting. When displaying RDS name and RDS text in separate viewports, the RDS text is not crazy anymore! |
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| 15:10:01 | lebellium | oh gosh that also fix the crash issue! Oo But why is putting %ty and %tz in the same viewport that bad?! that did not cause any issue with the older builds as far as I know! |
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| 15:20:22 | n1s | Buschel: looking closer at celt_decode_with_ec the freq and X buffers are only used at the same time in denormalize_bands, freq is never used before and X is never used after so i hacked up a patch to share the same buffer for them which saves some iram when allocing them on iram |
| 15:20:23 | n1s | http://pastebin.com/XtJ5KVj9 |
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| 15:21:16 | n1s | it works but is fairly ugly |
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| 15:23:53 | n1s | X is a int16_t and freq is int32_t |
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| 18:21:54 | Buschel | n1s: about your freq/X patch. why do you set X to freq[C*N/2]? and not simply to freq[0]? |
| 18:22:08 | | Nick AlexP_ is now known as AlexP (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP) |
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| 18:24:39 | Buschel | n1s: i do not think this approach is too hacky. i would define a static char-array of 1920*MAX(sizeof(celt_sig), sizeof(celt_norm)) in IRAM and would simply cast it then, e.g. "freq = (celc_sig*) s_buf; X = (celt_norm*) s_buf;" |
| 18:26:30 | Buschel | n1s: could you measure the other parts of the patch (comb_filter, memcpy in celt.c, the index-changes to mdct.c/kiss_fft.c)? |
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| 18:32:55 | Buschel | n1s: btw, where does this 1920 come from? |
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| 18:44:08 | Buschel | n1s: ok, just found out about the index shift when setting X |
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| 18:47:27 | Buschel | n1s: nevertheless we should have the static allocation of two seperate buffers submitted first. and move the "joined" buffer solution in a second submit. this is benefit *if* we should have overssen something and need to bisect some day |
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| 19:00:23 | saratoga | [7]: http://www.head-fi.org/t/532426/ipod-classic-rockbox-its-happening/1515#post_8738388 |
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| 19:10:01 | [7] | saratoga: sorry, no idea |
| 19:10:08 | [7] | it's been ages since I implemented this |
| 19:10:26 | saratoga | no idea what your comment was referring to? |
| 19:11:04 | [7] | well that sampling rate stuff which apparently isn't working |
| 19:11:04 | saratoga | Note: Disable output before calling this function |
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| 19:13:18 | saratoga | that code is called above in audiohw_preinit, so i guess one of the other registers might need to be set before changing that clock |
| 19:13:56 | saratoga | or perhaps cscodec_reset |
| 19:15:14 | [7] | well those comments on the forums seem to be nonsense - there shouldn't be any need to mess with the pcm driver |
| 19:15:57 | [7] | cscodec_reset is a very bad idea |
| 19:16:23 | [7] | it is crucial for audiohw_preinit to be called before audiohw_set_frequency |
| 19:16:47 | [7] | audiohw_preinit will set the sampling rate to 44100Hz |
| 19:17:01 | saratoga | does sample rate changing even work on the Classic right now? |
| 19:17:13 | [7] | I think it should, but I'm not sure if it has been tested at all |
| 19:17:17 | saratoga | as far as I can tell it shouldn't (but i'm not too familiar with this code) |
| 19:17:26 | [7] | why shouldn't it? |
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| 19:17:43 | [7] | that /* Note: Disable output before calling this function */ is probably copied from another driver |
| 19:17:55 | [7] | not sure if it's strictly necessary for this codec, probably not |
| 19:18:06 | [7] | but it's generally a good idea |
| 19:18:13 | saratoga | i think pcm_set_frequency will do nothing since pcm_dma_apply_setting is a NOP |
| 19:18:29 | [7] | that's fine because pcm doesn't even need to know the frequency |
| 19:18:44 | [7] | the cs42l55 is operating as the i2s master and thus controlling the sampling rate |
| 19:18:53 | saratoga | isn't that access point for the plugin API though? |
| 19:18:55 | [7] | i.e. the i2c write in audiohw_set_frequency is the only thing you should need to do |
| 19:19:00 | saratoga | if that is a NOP how would something cahnge the rate? |
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| 19:21:50 | saratoga | have you tried the test_sampr plugin on the 6G? |
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| 20:03:23 | user890104 | saratoga: i have an ipod classic (120 GB), if you want anything to be tested on that target let me know |
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| 20:06:13 | lorenzo92 | kugel: finally tested your patch, A+, works perfectly ;) |
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| 20:08:32 | lorenzo92 | kugel: little help with git, if I remove the gpio patch, then need to do again simply git commit? I fetched git freshly, then applied your patchset using the patch url... |
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| 20:20:05 | lorenzo92 | pff did a bullshit...sorry you all...is it possible to remove an entry in gerrit? -.-" |
| 20:20:54 | lorenzo92 | well it is correct, but not really hehe |
| 20:26:36 | [Saint] | anyone else find it interesting the "bricked" Clip+ was detected as an M200Plus by some lowlevel magic b0hoon managed to trigger? |
| 20:27:08 | [Saint] | from: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,35776.msg205797.html#msg205797 |
| 20:27:21 | lorenzo92 | okay, let's ask somehting different... does anyone knows why software keypad lock works in WPS only? Is there a particular reason? |
| 20:29:17 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 20:32:18 | [Saint] | lorenzo92: I believe it's only intention was to prevent interruption to playback. |
| 20:32:38 | [Saint] | It isn't to prevent all arbitrary accidental keypresses. |
| 20:33:03 | lorenzo92 | [Saint]: yes, logical, but then why don't enable it also in the FM radio screen? |
| 20:33:32 | lorenzo92 | moreover targets with physical lock can be lock in any screen... |
| 20:33:39 | lorenzo92 | *locked |
| 20:34:19 | [Saint] | they also have a physical lock to do so with, and don't need to rely on hardware keys that may already be mapped to other functions. |
| 20:35:04 | [Saint] | my suspicion is either: a - no one thought of it, or, b - crowded keymaps and blocking keys made this a nightmare. |
| 20:35:49 | [Saint] | I'm leaning towards the latter, as I know what a nightmare keymaps are. |
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| 20:43:50 | lorenzo92 | indeed :) but it *may* be a good idea to add the keylock also in FM screen, at least...as suggested by some users |
| 20:48:34 | lorenzo92 | updated YP-R0 wiki ;) |
| 20:50:44 | lorenzo92 | kugel: why is "Battery charging" in the TargetStatus page labelled as partial for YP-R0? We need definitely work out the USB to make this port stable, I have ideas but rockbox code crashes :p |
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| 21:42:33 | n1s | Buschel: the 1920 comes from the static mode, and stereo and yeah sure, doing either change separately is probably nicer |
| 21:43:17 | n1s | I'll try to test the other parts of your patch during the week |
| 21:46:10 | Buschel | perfect, i'll let you know if i should find any other optimization |
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| 21:54:12 | freqmod | http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/319/ - anything more i can do to get this in to trunk? |
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| 22:09:36 | n1s | freqmod: tell someone to push it :) I have no idea what it's supposed to fix though |
| 22:10:39 | freqmod | accordik to bertik http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/300/ "* Seeking ported from speex, but fails on some cases (e.g. seek to granule 0)" |
| 22:10:45 | saratoga | alternatively if you're going to be working on opus more, we could probably just give you git write access |
| 22:11:13 | freqmod | well, i don't plan to work more than bugs i encounter |
| 22:11:18 | freqmod | *than on bugs |
| 22:12:09 | freqmod | basically it disables my code to guess where to jump to for long seeks (to speed it up for targets with disks), which are a bit flakey |
| 22:12:18 | freqmod | and handles granule 0 as a special case |
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| 22:16:52 | freqmod | but if you want to give me access, it could be useful to have |
| 22:17:02 | * | freqmod is planning to do a codec2 codec interface |
| 22:17:14 | freqmod | it is finished, but no fixed point of codec2 exists yet |
| 22:18:15 | freqmod | and the bitstream doesn't look to get frozen in the near future |
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| 22:22:02 | Prodicus | still some work to be done on codec2. personally from my experience it seems like his sample files do a lot better than anything I encode myself, which makes me wonder if he's overtrained things. |
| 22:23:29 | freqmod | hehe |
| 22:23:33 | freqmod | i have the same experience |
| 22:23:47 | freqmod | but i have only transcoded mp3's |
| 22:24:39 | freqmod | however it does create listenable sounds in about 1 kpbs |
| 22:24:50 | freqmod | so i was thinking about encoding the whole librivox library |
| 22:25:09 | Prodicus | I've worked from lossless originals- recordings of myself and recordings from a conference |
| 22:25:21 | freqmod | hmm |
| 22:25:42 | freqmod | he should probably get some more test samples to tune for |
| 22:26:54 | Prodicus | as you say, for huge audiobook libraries the possibility of getting something at 2kbps is tantalizing and the quality it already hits at 1.4k makes one think it could be good enough to work well at ~2 |
| 22:28:16 | freqmod | he supposedly made a better codec at 3,6kbps a week ago |
| 22:28:44 | freqmod | however i think i would still go for 1,2 kbps as the difference between 3,6 and 10kbps opus is much more |
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| 22:29:31 | Prodicus | yeah, for a lot of applications the quality improvement from moving to mediumband rather than narrowband is pretty obvious. |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).