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| 00:48:41 | ParkerR_ | rasher, If you are who I think you are, I want to say thanks for the Android port. |
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| 00:59:32 | rasher | ParkerR_: Please don't - I did not do any work related to the Android port. I mere distribute builds of the port. |
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| 01:00:32 | ParkerR_ | rasher, Well thanks for the builds |
| 01:00:51 | ParkerR_ | I wouldn't be using it without them |
| 01:01:04 | rasher | :) No problem, but the actual work was done by other people |
| 01:01:19 | ParkerR_ | I see |
| 01:04:18 | | Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 01:07:15 | ParkerR_ | So this adds an old Hero CDMA to my list of Rockbox devices. Other two are a Nano 1gand Nexus 7 |
| 01:07:25 | ParkerR_ | *1g and |
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| 02:44:05 | [Saint] | Hmmmm...is the manual just plain wrong, or, do we really ignore "folder.jpeg" as valid album art? |
| 02:44:55 | [Saint] | (this {according to the manual} is the only naming scheme case that ignores the .jpg and .bmp cases, and it doesn't explain why) |
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| 03:00:10 | ParkerR_ | [Saint], So it only accepts jpeg? |
| 03:00:58 | [Saint] | Apparently, ...but, I'm having a ahrd time believing that this single case only accepts jpeg and not bmp or jpg. |
| 03:01:06 | [Saint] | s/ahrd/hard/ |
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| 03:03:35 | [Saint] | IIRC, various media players use "folder.jpeg" as their album art location if not embedded, but that doesn't seem like a reason to ignore other extensions. |
| 03:03:50 | * | [Saint] shrugs. |
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| 03:07:24 | ParkerR_ | [Saint], Well jpeg used to be the way most images were until they kinda went with jpg. Maybe it just hasn't caught up |
| 03:08:55 | [Saint] | I'm kinda leaning towards it being added solely because various media players use this format, as WMP set the style. |
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| 04:40:23 | baegle | Hello, not seeing this anywhere else. Any idea why I'm only getting the option to install the development release of Rockbox when I use the utility? |
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| 04:42:15 | [Saint] | baegle: which target? |
| 04:42:20 | baegle | Fuze+ |
| 04:44:42 | [Saint] | Only stable targets are displayed by default. |
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| 04:44:58 | [Saint] | The Fuze+ isn't stable, you need to enable the display of non-stable targets. |
| 04:46:02 | [Saint] | "Configuration - Show disabled targets" |
| 04:46:39 | [Saint] | Ooooohhh...heh, I totally misread your post. |
| 04:47:22 | [Saint] | I also made a wrong. Bad me. |
| 04:49:06 | baegle | hmmmm, that didn't add any releases to the available list |
| 04:49:11 | baegle | still only development snapshot |
| 04:50:18 | [Saint] | Yeah, I don't even know what I was thinking with that...I need to wake up, heh. I don't think there *is* a release for this target, so...it totally makes sense, but isn't exactly obvious. |
| 04:52:21 | [Saint] | iirc, only stable targets get RC and release builds. |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:31:37 | baegle | got it |
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| 05:35:51 | * | [Saint] apologises for his earlier display of brain-fartery. |
| 05:36:10 | [Saint] | I said so many wrong things, it killed kittens. |
| 05:37:00 | [Saint] | A quick backpedal and some actual correct info later, all is well. |
| 05:37:37 | baegle | I was ready to toss this POS out the window before Rockbox |
| 05:37:40 | baegle | now I'm happy |
| 05:37:50 | baegle | And you can use that on the website as a testimonial |
| 05:44:03 | ParkerR_ | baegle, Sweet |
| 05:55:48 | baegle | So I've got an sd card for my player, and I want to have the simplest possible setup for an idiot proof playlist for an event |
| 05:56:05 | baegle | I figure, there's no need to organize by artist or album, just a single playlist |
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| 05:56:37 | baegle | But it looks like to use it, I have to create a playlist on the card, and then use File -> MMC01 then open the playlist |
| 05:56:49 | baegle | if I put everything in root, if I put it all in music, I have to go another step further |
| 05:57:13 | baegle | Is there an easier way? I notice that the Playlist Catalogue on the main menu doesn't notice that I have a playlist on the SD card. |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:40 | ParkerR_ | baegle, I think that playlist catalog is for playlist you make on the device not pls files |
| 06:01:58 | | Part amayer |
| 06:02:21 | baegle | Is there a way to put a playlist on the main menu? |
| 06:02:54 | ParkerR_ | Not sure |
| 06:03:05 | [Saint] | Not without recompiling from source, no. |
| 06:03:33 | [Saint] | Playlist Catalogue should be one the main menu, so, it's only one extra step. |
| 06:04:14 | baegle | How do I add a link to a playlist on an SD card to the catalogue? |
| 06:05:01 | [Saint] | I take it this is a playlist you created manually, and then exported? |
| 06:05:14 | baegle | I created it on my computer by hand |
| 06:05:15 | [Saint] | (which will probably fail, due to relative paths anyway) |
| 06:05:26 | [Saint] | Yeah, best to create on device. |
| 06:05:32 | baegle | nfw I'm gonna do that |
| 06:05:37 | [Saint] | Then, it'll "Just Work (TM)" |
| 06:05:37 | baegle | Way too much music |
| 06:05:56 | [Saint] | But, you said it's all in one dir, no? |
| 06:06:11 | baegle | Order matters |
| 06:06:13 | [Saint] | Bring up the context menu on the containing directory, add to playlist, done. |
| 06:06:24 | [Saint] | Oooooh, ordering. Yeah, sucks. |
| 06:06:30 | baegle | yeah |
| 06:06:55 | baegle | looks like I can maybe just do \<MMC1>\ ? |
| 06:07:38 | [Saint] | I think slashes mess it up, create a playlist on device from a file contained in the sdcard to check the formatting. |
| 06:08:22 | [Saint] | You'll also need to escape dirs that have spaces in the names: "/dir/my\ dir\ with\ spaces/file.file" etc. |
| 06:09:27 | [Saint] | I'm not sure how people go about exporting playlists and making sure the paths still make sense, I just use a dynamic playlist myself...so, yeah. |
| 06:20:12 | baegle | damnit |
| 06:20:24 | baegle | OK, how do I stop the current list and load another one? |
| 06:24:06 | baegle | [Saint]: Creating the playlist through the player doesn't work either. |
| 06:24:39 | [Saint] | can you define "doesn't work" please? |
| 06:24:44 | [Saint] | In what way does it fail? |
| 06:24:52 | baegle | Nothing to resume |
| 06:25:04 | baegle | it adds the song to a new playlist as requested |
| 06:25:08 | baegle | but the playlist won't play |
| 06:27:06 | baegle | why does "select" ask to delete a playlist anyway, That's the most counter intuitive process |
| 06:27:24 | baegle | ohhhhhh |
| 06:27:50 | [Saint] | Sounds like you're just blowing away the dynamic playlist. |
| 06:28:00 | [Saint] | I assume you get a warning to this effect? |
| 06:28:21 | baegle | That's exactly what I'm seeing. Didn't understand the message initially |
| 06:29:06 | [Saint] | You can create a static playlist from the current dynamic playlist from the context menu, iirc. |
| 06:29:19 | baegle | I think I might have gotten it |
| 06:30:16 | [Saint] | The hard thing to grasp, is that *all* Rockbox playback is playlist based. It is a little non-obvious. |
| 06:30:45 | [Saint] | Just launching an arbitrary file from the file explorer adds it to the dynamic playlist, which you can then save, or discard, etc. |
| 06:31:18 | [Saint] | Reading our Fine Manual may shed some light on the entire process for you. |
| 06:31:50 | [Saint] | I only use the database and dynamic playlist, so..creation of playlists and their management isn't a strongpoint of mine. |
| 06:32:31 | baegle | I'm just looking for a straight shot solution to a simple problem |
| 06:32:33 | baegle | I think I've managed it |
| 06:33:07 | baegle | After being on the brink of returning the Fuze+ because it wouldn't play my flac, I think I've got enough control with Rockbox to do my thing |
| 06:33:50 | * | [Saint] is aware of very few media players that play flac out of the box. |
| 06:34:21 | [Saint] | alac in the iPods is the closes I can think of off the top of my head. |
| 06:34:26 | [Saint] | *closest |
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| 06:37:02 | baegle | Fuze+ has it listed on the box |
| 06:37:36 | [Saint] | Ah, I wasn't aware. It specifically lists flac, but, doesn't play it? |
| 06:37:47 | [Saint] | ...nice work SanDisk. |
| 06:38:26 | baegle | exactly |
| 06:38:39 | baegle | And it wasn't a 16 vs 24 bit issue either |
| 06:38:58 | baegle | since these were 16 and the forums specifically identify 16 bit as the only type that works |
| 06:39:07 | baegle | anyway, the box is now rocked |
| 06:39:12 | baegle | and I can make a playlist for my wedding |
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| 06:39:45 | [Saint] | Mazel tov! |
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| 10:57:21 | wodz | There is something I don't get about elfs - for cube on CF symtab have 52 entries, while only 16 are referenced when relocating. I thought −−strip-unneeded should eliminate unused in relocation symbols |
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| 11:40:22 | [Saint] | Kiwicam_: Holy sh*tballs! |
| 11:40:38 | [Saint] | You have 127 sub-images in "G"?!? |
| 11:42:38 | | Quit speckmade1 (Client Quit) |
| 11:43:29 | Kiwicam_ | 127? One fo revery pixel across the Clip + |
| 11:43:38 | Kiwicam_ | 0 to 127 |
| 11:43:53 | Kiwicam_ | Ground Movement. |
| 11:45:25 | [Saint] | Surely there's a better way to do that? |
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| 11:45:54 | [Saint] | It could be done by displaying a few image "tiles" in random locations. |
| 11:46:03 | Kiwicam_ | Probably not. |
| 11:46:56 | [Saint] | You can display alignment tags now? |
| 11:47:11 | * | [Saint] encourages Kiwicam_ out of *-community |
| 11:47:29 | Kiwicam_ | [Saint]: It's been ages since I looked at this stuff. I'm rusty. |
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| 11:48:36 | Kiwicam_ | Alignment Tags? |
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| 11:49:34 | [Saint] | Kiwicam_: re: |
| 11:49:37 | [Saint] | "<Kiwicam_> Finally got a Clip ZIp. So I tried out my theme I made for it ages ago and then realised that it's showing two %ar's instead of a %ac & %ar." |
| 11:49:59 | [Saint] | I wondered how it would be "showing" alignment tags. |
| 11:50:17 | [Saint] | (which is what those tags are) |
| 11:50:21 | Kiwicam_ | Oh S! Sorry two %pr's instead of %pc & %pr |
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| 11:56:38 | wodz | can someone explain me what this snippet from pictureflow.c is actually doing? http://pastie.org/4932157 |
| 11:57:49 | wodz | plugin_get_buffer() and plugin_get_audio_buffer() return the size of the buffer granted |
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| 12:04:23 | [Saint] | wodz: I assume it's not going to become any more apparent to me if I actually take context from above and below? |
| 12:05:10 | wodz | you can try apps/plugins/pictureflow/pictureflow.c:2946 |
| 12:05:28 | amiconn | wodz: You mean the #ifndef SIMULATOR part? |
| 12:05:58 | wodz | yes |
| 12:07:52 | amiconn | That's easy to explain. It's necessary for those targets where pictureflow is loaded as an overlay |
| 12:08:58 | amiconn | Otherwise the plugin might overwrite itself with data. plugin_get_audio_buffer() doesn't know whether an overlay already occupies a part of the audio buffer. |
| 12:09:49 | gevaerts | Zagor: can you move the uploaded 3.12 files to the proper location one of these days and do the necessary magic? |
| 12:09:53 | amiconn | plugin_get_audio_buffer() just returns the same buffer over and over, no matter how often it's called |
| 12:12:24 | wodz | amiconn: ok, Could you explain me a bit how overlay is working actually? |
| 12:14:55 | amiconn | The overlay loader (pictureflow.rock) gets the audio buffer, then loads the overlay (pictureflow.ovl) there |
| 12:15:26 | amiconn | This is a mechanism to support large plugins on targets with a small plugin buffer, at the price of having to stop playback |
| 12:16:02 | amiconn | The .ovl header is the same as that of an ordniary plugin, apart from the different load address |
| 12:17:43 | wodz | ok, so if we hypothetically switch to relocatable elfs we may get rid of this and load the plugin at the 'right' address in the first place |
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| 12:48:48 | Zagor | gevaerts: will do! |
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| 12:51:48 | wodz | Torne: Could you look at g#326 and comment? |
| 12:51:50 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #326 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/326 : ELF loader for plugins by Marcin Bukat (changes/26/326/4) |
| 12:52:07 | Torne | i will try and look later |
| 12:52:42 | wodz | Torne: I guess elf with .symtab but without .strtab is nonstandard, right? |
| 12:53:25 | Torne | inasmuch as the one refers to the other, probably |
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| 14:16:19 | wodz | amiconn: reading ovelay.c now I understand - overlay is loaded at the end of audiobuff as opposed to regular plugins which are loaded at the begining of pluginbuff |
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| 14:53:39 | markun | is opus decoding in real-time for all rockbox targets? |
| 14:54:50 | Epicanis | It's been a few days since I tried it last, but last I tried on my Sansa C240 it was close, but not quite (hugely improved from the initial release, though). |
| 14:55:38 | Epicanis | (Had gone from 2-seconds-playing/1-second-pause to 8-seconds-playing/half-second-pause from initial release to when I last tried it) |
| 14:56:29 | the-kyle | markun: I think it's realtime on most if not all targets, but there are still some ram issues on the clipv1. I'm not entirely sure about everything, as I've only tried it on the clipv1 and clip+. |
| 14:56:59 | gevaerts | markun: n1s summarised at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20121007#00:34:43 |
| 14:57:35 | gevaerts | So I'd say for 64kbps files realtime on everything except PP, which is nearly there |
| 14:57:48 | gevaerts | No ideas about other bitrates |
| 14:59:27 | the-kyle | 128 is supposed to be near realtime on most targets. 256 still has a long way to go if I understand correctly, but I don't usually use 256 even on my clip+, so haven't tested it on anything yet. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:08 | the-kyle | I think 128k is still going to have some problems on slower targets. |
| 15:01:57 | markun | so it sounds like it will drain batteries pretty fast |
| 15:02:48 | the-kyle | I do notice a little decrease in battery life on my clip+, but it doesn't drain extremely fast. |
| 15:06:01 | markun | the-kyle: good to know since I also primarily use the clip+ |
| 15:06:10 | gevaerts | the-kyle: does 256kbps make sense for opus? |
| 15:07:06 | the-kyle | gevaerts: By all accounts, probably not. I think 180 is pretty much tops, but 256 may have some benefit in some applications. Probably not for portable though. |
| 15:07:48 | the-kyle | markun: Opus works extremely well on the clip+. |
| 15:08:17 | the-kyle | It actually worked well on the clip+ at the initial release. |
| 15:08:33 | gevaerts | I'd have thought opus would make most sense at the lower end, where (at least according to http://www.opus-codec.org/comparison/) it makes a lot of sense, but above 128kbps codec choice doesn't seem to make much quality difference |
| 15:08:44 | * | the-kyle patched it in a day before the release. |
| 15:10:07 | the-kyle | Apparently there is a difference at 128k between Opus and Vorbis, but on portable devices, above 128k doesn't really make much of a difference. |
| 15:10:52 | the-kyle | Opus is the best I've heard at or below 128k. |
| 15:11:20 | the-kyle | This is even taking into account the proprietary codecs. |
| 15:11:37 | gevaerts | Yes, that's what that graph seems to show, except below 7k or so |
| 15:11:56 | gevaerts | But still 7k to 128k is a large range to be good in |
| 15:12:15 | the-kyle | below 7k, codec2 shows a lot of promise, but it's still not frozen. |
| 15:12:47 | gevaerts | That's for rather different usecases again though I expect |
| 15:13:24 | the-kyle | Codec2 is supposed to be for ham radio and other very tight bandwidth speech applications. |
| 15:13:34 | markun | below some bitrate I guess it's just the SILK codec? |
| 15:13:48 | the-kyle | Not really practical for most portable audio devices. |
| 15:14:05 | gevaerts | Codec2 could be good for speech support on lowmem devices like the clip :) |
| 15:15:17 | the-kyle | True, and who wouldn't jump at the chance to read an audiobook at 2.4k? Well, it does sound a bit computerized, but it was intelegible at that bitrate. |
| 15:15:55 | * | the-kyle likes 12k and 16k Opus for audiobooks. |
| 15:16:00 | markun | TTS is the best codec for audiobooks of course ;) |
| 15:16:38 | the-kyle | markun: This is true, of course, but there is not yet a working tts on Rockbox. |
| 15:17:01 | the-kyle | They generally take a bit more ram also. |
| 15:17:34 | gevaerts | At 2.4kbit, a 32MB device would have to spin up lightly less than once per day |
| 15:17:38 | gevaerts | Good enough for me :) |
| 15:17:43 | markun | eSpeak being GPLv3 is not a problem anymore, right? |
| 15:17:54 | Epicanis | I was wondering if codec2 might actually make some speech MORE intelligible... |
| 15:17:59 | the-kyle | I think someone was working on eSpeak, but I'm not sure about its status. |
| 15:18:41 | the-kyle | It would solve a lot of problems if it can be made to work, including the whole .talk clip thing. |
| 15:19:41 | markun | I use espeak as TTS on my android phone, but I'm usually the only one in the car who understands the directions of google navigation |
| 15:19:43 | the-kyle | Although I think eSpeak is about the only tts that has a low enough memory footprint, so .talk clips and voice files may still need to be used on some targets, or where eSpeak is not the user's preferred tts. |
| 15:20:59 | the-kyle | I use eSpeak to make .talk clips and voice files for Rockbox. My wife uses Pico though, so I patched my tools/configure and tools/voice.pl to make it work with Pico. |
| 15:21:50 | the-kyle | That still doesn't make the Rockbox utility use Pico, unfortunately. |
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| 15:26:51 | the-kyle | Anybody know the status of eSpeak on Rockbox? I saw something in the git log about the possibility of supporting a native tts a month or so ago, but I didn't know if that was eSpeak related, and haven't seen anything since. |
| 15:28:25 | * | the-kyle is looking up the commit that seems to have mentioned it. It had something to do with the way voice data is stored. |
| 15:29:00 | gevaerts | That's not related to TTS on the device |
| 15:29:43 | gevaerts | It was about storing the necessary information on the device to allow rockbox utility to generate voice files without needing the rockbox servers, and without being restricted to unmodified builds |
| 15:32:05 | the-kyle | http://pasting.tk/2 |
| 15:32:27 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 15:32:36 | the-kyle | The line of interest was |
| 15:32:38 | the-kyle | Furthermore, putting the voice strings on the target is also a prerequisite for |
| 15:32:47 | the-kyle | eventually supporting a TTS on the player. |
| 15:32:50 | gevaerts | Right. It's also needed for TTS on target, but it doesn't really do much for that |
| 15:32:58 | * | freqmod have made a codec2 interface |
| 15:33:08 | freqmod | if somebody just had ported it to fixed point |
| 15:33:25 | freqmod | but the codec is still at the changing and experimenting stage |
| 15:34:08 | the-kyle | Yes. It's still a bit of a chore to get codec2 to play on the computer. |
| 15:34:30 | * | the-kyle had to encode, decode and then play the resulting wav file. |
| 15:34:36 | * | freqmod too |
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| 15:36:09 | wodz | Ok, I finally cleaned up and merged my yesterday work into g#326 - now most plugins run on CF as well. |
| 15:36:10 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #326 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/326 : ELF loader for plugins by Marcin Bukat (changes/26/326/5) |
| 15:37:22 | wodz | has any of the active devs have native MIPS target to test on? |
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| 15:51:00 | mortalis | wodz: There are some unnecessary changes in rk27xx.h |
| 15:51:06 | mortalis | in g326 |
| 15:51:07 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #326 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/326 : ELF loader for plugins by Marcin Bukat (changes/26/326/5) |
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| 16:01:47 | wodz | mortalis: could be - it was taken from bFLT branch which predates lcd dma and cpu scalling stuff |
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| 16:12:10 | amayer_ | how do you delete a post in the forums? |
| 16:12:13 | amayer_ | i tried posting something and it didnt post. then i posted it again and 3 of them poped up |
| 16:12:49 | amayer_ | it now only shows up under: |
| 16:12:52 | amayer_ | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,38846.new/spam,true.html |
| 16:12:56 | amayer_ | but not the regular topic |
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| 16:14:40 | gevaerts | amayer_: you're another victim of our spam filter false positives |
| 16:14:54 | amayer_ | well i did post it 3 times by acident |
| 16:15:06 | gevaerts | For some reason it doesn't like rockbox.org URLs |
| 16:15:17 | amayer_ | can someone delete the last 2 and allow past spam? |
| 16:15:23 | gevaerts | I'll recover them all, and then delete them the regular way |
| 16:15:42 | amayer_ | i didnt see an option to delete them |
| 16:15:51 | amayer_ | gevaerts: thanks for your help |
| 16:17:35 | gevaerts | Should be ok now (I hope) |
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| 16:19:54 | amayer_ | looks good to me |
| 16:20:00 | amayer_ | thanks a million |
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| 16:55:33 | saratoga | markun: GPLv3 should be fine provided the code is protected by ifdef's so that people have the option of using GPLv2 if they want |
| 16:55:47 | saratoga | for a feature like voice I think that should be a nonissue |
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| 16:58:45 | the-kyle | I seem to recall explicit permission being given by Jonathan Duddington, the lead developer of eSpeak, to use eSpeak's GPLv3 code in Rockbox, even though Rockbox is GPLV2. If I am remembering correctly, all bases should be covered, in spite of the difference in GPL versions. |
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| 17:00:30 | gevaerts | the-kyle: that permission was easy. GPLv3 is compatible with GPLv2+, without explicit permission. The potential problem is that the resulting binary is explicitely GPLv3(+), and whether or not that's a problem is *our* side |
| 17:01:08 | gevaerts | Also, as long as we had v2-only code, *that* code was not compatible with v3, whatever the authors of the v3 people say |
| 17:01:14 | the-kyle | Ah OK. I wasn't sure where exactly the problem was there. |
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| 17:02:16 | gevaerts | The main thing is that (for various reasons) we don't want to move the entire codebase to v3. It's *compatible* with v3 though, so having part of the source be v3 is not a big issue if we document stuff properly |
| 17:02:32 | | Quit speckmade1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 17:04:56 | saratoga | yeah the espeak guy wouldn't actually give us the licensing terms we wanted |
| 17:05:28 | saratoga | doesn't matter now that we're GPLv2 or v3 though |
| 17:05:39 | the-kyle | So it's safe from a licensing standpoint to use v3 only code in a v2+ project? That was what I thought the problem was. |
| 17:06:05 | saratoga | yeah, if you do that you become a v3 project |
| 17:06:11 | gevaerts | Well, it depends |
| 17:06:16 | gevaerts | Your *binaries* become v3 |
| 17:06:33 | | Quit Zagor (Quit: Clint excited) |
| 17:06:53 | the-kyle | But doesn't that raise some patent issues in some countries with some of the Rockbox codecs? |
| 17:07:19 | gevaerts | So someone who gets a binary and then exercises his right to download the source might technically get v3 source, while someone who downloads a binary and then unrelatedly decides to also download the source gets mixed-license source |
| 17:08:15 | the-kyle | Un less, of course, I misunderstand some of GPLv3. |
| 17:08:51 | saratoga | gevaerts: i don't remember clearly, but i think the reason we didn't put clipping prevention on by default is that for the other 99.99% of people it'll make volume normalization not work as well |
| 17:09:20 | gevaerts | saratoga: 99.99% is a serious claim :) |
| 17:09:22 | saratoga | since it'll scale other people's tracks down if they have some minor clipping |
| 17:10:22 | saratoga | although i guess most people won't notice |
| 17:10:41 | gevaerts | I don't have a real opinion on the entire thing, but I'm not too surprised some people are a bit upset by the "But it works fine if you listen to rubbish!" (from their (and my ;) p.o.v.) argument |
| 17:11:23 | gevaerts | To be honest, to my ears the music where clipping isn't a problem, clipping wouldn't make it sound worse ;) |
| 17:11:46 | saratoga | clipping is really common, but its usually just one or two samples |
| 17:12:00 | saratoga | pretty much everything clips in mp3 format for instance, but you never hear it |
| 17:12:06 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 17:12:49 | saratoga | i don't really care, it seems like the subset of people who scan their files with replaygain but don't know what it is or hwo to change its settings is probably too small to worry about |
| 17:12:49 | gevaerts | As I said, I don't have a real opinion. We might want to mention the genre-specific peculiarities in the manual or on the wiki though |
| 17:13:44 | saratoga | the whole idea of defaulting on was mostly that i kept erasing my settings while debugging and hated having to turn it back on :) |
| 17:13:57 | gevaerts | :) |
| 17:14:27 | saratoga | i do wonder if maybe it would make sense to give our DSP engine an extra dB of headroom though |
| 17:14:41 | saratoga | i tried one of those files posted in the forums in foobar2000 and it does not clip regardless of settings |
| 17:14:54 | saratoga | i'm assuming foobar just keeps a little more extra headroom then we do |
| 17:15:01 | evilnick | IF this were to have any effect, then it'd be for people who have downloaded music files from some source that does use replygain when the downloader themselves don't. |
| 17:15:31 | evilnick | Therefore the files to clip would be likely to be ones that are copyright infringing anyway |
| 17:15:43 | evilnick | Therefore it doesn't matter :D |
| 17:16:20 | gevaerts | I have no idea if legal file purchase sites tend to use replaygain |
| 17:16:56 | the-kyle | Not that it matters all that much, but I have a 256k Opus file playing in realtime on the clip+. I get a hard freeze on the clipv1 before playback instead of on stop, but I'd never use 256k on a 2GB device anyway. |
| 17:19:02 | the-kyle | I purchase music from Amazon mp3, and I don't think it's using replaygain. It usually shows up as mp3 tags, but I don't see appropriate tags on those files. |
| 17:19:38 | gevaerts | The mp3 music I've purchased also doesn't seem to have it |
| 17:19:53 | saratoga | is volume proportional to intensity or amplitude? i always forget which decibel to use |
| 17:24:39 | derf | saratoga: BTW, I found out there _was_ a NULL check on the global stack allocation, but it was accidentally moved inside a CUSTOM_MODES ifdef. |
| 17:25:12 | saratoga | so that may result in memory corruption on low memory targets? |
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| 17:29:07 | derf | saratoga: Yes. See opus_custom_mode_create() in celt/modes.c. |
| 17:29:30 | derf | The second #endif at the start there should be moved before ALLOC_STACK; |
| 17:30:41 | derf | (I _believe_ that's sufficient, but we're still investigating all the other ALLOC_STACK usage upstream...) |
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| 17:39:52 | Epicanis | Not sure if it matters to anyone, but I just tried the latest dev build on my Sansa C240 ("c200v1") with a 96kbit stereo opus file. So far it seems to be working perfectly, no more pauses during playback. Nice! |
| 17:40:22 | ParkerR_ | And I;m just sitting here wondering what the heck an opus file is. |
| 17:40:27 | ParkerR_ | *I'm |
| 17:40:32 | Epicanis | http://opus-codec.org |
| 17:40:57 | Epicanis | Very nice, high-quality codec (with low-latency so it's also suitable for VoIP) |
| 17:41:05 | the-kyle | Ooooh! 96 Kbit! Nice indeed. |
| 17:41:27 | ParkerR_ | Nice |
| 17:41:44 | Epicanis | I figure 96kbit should be approximately equivalent to 128-160kbit mp3, so great for most music. |
| 17:42:02 | the-kyle | I would say it's the first truly general-purpose codec. Maybe not, but hey, it does sound good. |
| 17:42:40 | Epicanis | I think that's probably accurate - I can't think of ANY other (free OR proprietary) that doesn't have some flaw that makes it unsuitable for one major use-case or another. |
| 17:43:00 | the-kyle | If comparing to mp3, 96Kbit probably compares with somewhere between 160 and 180. |
| 17:44:20 | Epicanis | I tend to assume Vorbis is worth one to two steps up in equivalent quality over mp3 (so 96kbit vorbis would be approximately 112-128kbit mp3 equivalent), and Opus is one to two steps beyond that, so 160-180 is probably about right. |
| 17:44:47 | ParkerR_ | I just stick with simple mp3s XD |
| 17:45:10 | the-kyle | mp3 bleh! |
| 17:45:18 | Epicanis | mp3 is too mainstream, I'm getting a player-piano. :-) |
| 17:45:28 | ParkerR_ | Haha |
| 17:45:34 | ParkerR_ | Carry around the paper rolls |
| 17:46:42 | Epicanis | As I've been typing, I've been listening to a just-over-9-minute bit of music encoded as 96kbit Opus (transcoded from Ogg Vorbis obtained from Jamendo, I think the original was -q5 or so, so transcoding doesn't seem to have reduced the quality noticeably). |
| 17:47:09 | Epicanis | The song's just finishing up. There MAY have been a momentary pause (very short, not even sure it was "real") around the 5-minute mark, but otherwise it's played flawlessly... |
| 17:49:23 | Epicanis | Seems to cause some interface glitchiness (playback time updates infrequently, seems to respond slowly to some controls, and I can't figure out how to make playback actually STOP other than waiting for song to end) but it DOES actually work. |
| 17:51:13 | the-kyle | I'm listening to a 48 Kbit Opus file encoded from Flac ripped off an old CD, and it actually sounds much like q1 Vorbis, which encodes at ~80 Kbit usually. |
| 17:51:49 | Epicanis | So in short, Opus is awesome. :-) (brb, got to run an errand...) |
| 17:51:57 | the-kyle | Definitely. |
| 17:54:59 | | Quit speckmade (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 17:55:32 | the-kyle | I'm hearing some of the stereo shifting associated with low-bitrate Vorbis, but I had to go all the way down to 48k for it to be more than just a little noticeable, and its |
| 17:55:56 | the-kyle | and it's still mostly a minor annoyance. |
| 17:56:38 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:16 | the-kyle | Disclaimer: I use a framesize of 60ms when encoding at bitrates this low. It seems to improve quality, probably because of the way Opus handles vbr. |
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| 18:12:24 | Epicanis | I figure for regular music I'll be using 96kbit, for speech (e.g. oggcasts/"pod"casts) probably 48-64kbit depending on how much I'm worried about subtle nuances of sound... |
| 18:12:48 | Epicanis | Can probably get decent audiobook usage all the way down to 24kbit or so, I'd guess (haven't tested yet). |
| 18:13:53 | | Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 18:14:13 | saratoga | whats with people posting bug reports for codecs without a link to the file |
| 18:14:41 | saratoga | its like "a problem exists and I choose not to exchange information about it" |
| 18:14:50 | saratoga | "hope that helps" |
| 18:15:03 | Epicanis | "Like, DUDE! Something went wrong!" |
| 18:15:06 | bootinfdsds | Is this video possible ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aYj4at3pzs , Can I have a chat to someone about this Please ? |
| 18:15:24 | | Quit mgottschlag2 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 18:15:44 | Epicanis | They ought to be teaching how to do bug reports in high school... |
| 18:16:17 | bootinfdsds | Anyone there ? |
| 18:16:45 | saratoga | what is your question? |
| 18:17:08 | bootinfdsds | U2 Ipod doing games like quake etc ... Is this possible ? |
| 18:17:56 | saratoga | doom is possible, sure |
| 18:18:47 | bootinfdsds | ...therefore TF-Dooom ? (/Total conversions) |
| 18:18:53 | bootinfdsds | soz for spaces. |
| 18:19:14 | saratoga | i have no idea what that is, but if its doom, then yes |
| 18:19:20 | bootinfdsds | ** TC-DooM |
| 18:20:23 | bootinfdsds | Does the plug in have a 'loaded' or is it just vanilla doom -style plug-in ? |
| 18:20:33 | bootinfdsds | **'loader' |
| 18:21:27 | bootinfdsds | Is this DooM or DooM2 ??? |
| 18:22:11 | | Join nosa-j [0] (~m00k@184.76.254.130) |
| 18:23:28 | bootinfdsds | How do I access the command line in the DooM plugin ? |
| 18:23:59 | bootinfdsds | i.e. in the game ( on the ipod)... |
| 18:25:22 | amayer_ | speaking of doom and bug reports has anyone looked at this recently: |
| 18:25:24 | amayer_ | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12721 |
| 18:25:40 | bootinfdsds | opening.... |
| 18:26:12 | saratoga | doesn't look like it |
| 18:29:37 | bootinfdsds | amayer_, Yeah, that's pretty standard bug, it sounds to me. I'd like to get this/these bugs fixed so we can move onto other DooM clones etc. |
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| 18:30:18 | bootinfdsds | Is there a feature request section to the www.rockbox.org website ? |
| 18:31:23 | saratoga_ | nope |
| 18:32:00 | bootinfdsds | I guess feature are just future bugs, right ? |
| 18:32:06 | bootinfdsds | **features |
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| 18:33:03 | | Join mortalis [0] (~mortalis@77.108.98.177) |
| 18:33:05 | gevaerts | If you want a feature, you can work on it and submit a patch. People submitting feature requests without anyone working on them is just useless noise |
| 18:33:47 | bootinfdsds | gevaerts, I thought it was called innovation :( |
| 18:34:01 | saratoga_ | innovation is when you do something useful |
| 18:34:33 | Epicanis | (I don't think something counts as "innovation" until it's implemented...) |
| 18:34:37 | bootinfdsds | Aye, why not pay someone to do, that, useful |
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| 19:48:51 | Buschel | n1s: i was not really successful with asm'ing the C_MULC/C_MUL macros. it did not become any faster... but i could find another 0.7 MHz in mdct.c via some re-arranging -> http://pastie.org/5019925 |
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| 19:56:42 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 20:00 |
| 20:00:31 | n1s | Buschel: c_mulc gave about 2MHz on cf, even if gcc does a better job for arm i thought it would give some improvement if only by saving a bit of shifting and or'ing |
| 20:02:37 | | Join whiskers75 [0] (~whiskers7@unaffiliated/whiskers75) |
| 20:02:49 | whiskers75 | can someone help me with this: http://bit.ly/SIQgsQ |
| 20:05:06 | Buschel | n1s: maybe i am just out of training in writing assembler :/ |
| 20:05:21 | whiskers75 | anyone? |
| 20:07:09 | n1s | Buschel: not many ways to get that function suboptimal i think, but i could take a look if you post code |
| 20:07:55 | n1s | whiskers75: sounds like hardware problems to me |
| 20:08:14 | | Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 20:09:20 | Buschel | n1s: i've thrown it away. i'll give it a try again now, maybe i've got a better day today |
| 20:10:02 | whiskers75 | n1s: i think so too :( |
| 20:10:13 | n1s | sometimes it also helps looking at what gcc does with the inline asm to spot problems |
| 20:10:28 | n1s | like messed up constraints |
| 20:10:43 | | Join nosa-j [0] (~m00k@184.76.254.130) |
| 20:10:48 | whiskers75 | n1s: but surely dosfsck would have yielded an error? |
| 20:11:30 | n1s | whiskers75: not necessarily, if your battery theory is correct for example as it will get some power from usb when connected |
| 20:11:56 | n1s | and dosfsck is just checking the filesystem, not the data |
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| 20:15:17 | whiskers75 | n1s: maybe low power to the HD, or a faulty HD? |
| 20:15:43 | whiskers75 | n1s: but it did get the error when plugged in... |
| 20:15:55 | n1s | maybe something like that, it's always hard to tell |
| 20:16:22 | n1s | check the data then to look for corruption |
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| 20:17:56 | whiskers75 | n1s: how? |
| 20:18:39 | whiskers75 | n1s: it cant be corrupted, as it loads sometimes |
| 20:18:54 | whiskers75 | n1s: the error often occurs after a reset or power loss |
| 20:19:57 | whiskers75 | n1s: would the debug menu help? |
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| 20:44:16 | Buschel | n1s: http://pastie.org/5020212 -> ~0.8 MHz slower |
| 20:46:16 | n1s | Buschel: btw, doing 32 bit noninterleaved is quite complicated after all since the codec does a bunch of processing on the uotput |
| 20:46:51 | Buschel | not good :( |
| 20:51:56 | Buschel | n1s: any idea why the asm code is slower? |
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| 21:00 |
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| 21:04:07 | n1s | Buschel: hmm, it looks fine to me... |
| 21:09:31 | Kiwicam_ | I figured out what the problem was with KDE Kate somehow changing the format of plain text files (eg .wps). It's creating a line break for lines longer than 1024 characters. This is it's default. |
| 21:09:33 | Kiwicam_ | The solution is Settings/Configure Kate/Open-Save & change the Line Length Limit from 1024 to 0. |
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| 21:12:47 | saratoga | i still wonder about that prerotation step |
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| 21:23:01 | n1s | Buschel: it's spilling a lot more with that asm |
| 21:24:58 | | Part KiwiCAM_ |
| 21:25:17 | n1s | gcc also seems to have screwed up quite a lot |
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| 21:30:18 | saratoga | with the power of 2 fft, gcc had an enormous amount of trouble figuring out the register allocation for the butterflies |
| 21:30:28 | saratoga | probably similar here |
| 21:30:52 | saratoga | load store stuff on ARMv4/5 at least seems bad |
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| 21:31:05 | n1s | yeah, and adding this sam that clobbers a bunch of regs pushes it completely over the edge, it doesn't even seem to be trying anymore |
| 21:31:42 | Buschel | so, there is not much sense in asm'ing single macros, but the whole thing |
| 21:32:23 | n1s | looks like it unfortunately |
| 21:32:25 | saratoga | probably not much |
| 21:32:47 | saratoga | on the upside, you can probably make the fft a whole lot faster |
| 21:33:25 | Buschel | this will be nasty... |
| 21:33:48 | saratoga | isn't it just pre, post, and the 4 and 5 butterflies which need it? |
| 21:34:19 | Buschel | yes, all of them need pretty much the same amount of cpu time: 13% |
| 21:34:53 | Buschel | each of them, of course |
| 21:34:57 | saratoga | and its not possible to use the pre/post logic from the other MDCT? |
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| 21:42:51 | Buschel | i don't see how, it looks quite different |
| 21:44:15 | saratoga | yeah but why is it different? |
| 21:44:20 | saratoga | the spec says its a normal MDCT |
| 21:44:43 | saratoga | (other then needing non-power-of-two) |
| 21:45:08 | saratoga | naively I would think we could use our old mdct.c with the new fft for non-power of two sizes |
| 21:45:09 | Buschel | that was my understand (we only having 2^n, opus not using 2^n) |
| 21:45:46 | saratoga | maybe derf can clarify? |
| 21:47:05 | derf | There's lots of ways to factor an MDCT. |
| 21:47:22 | saratoga | i'm a little confused by the pre/post rotation code |
| 21:47:31 | saratoga | i've never seen it implemented like that |
| 21:48:39 | derf | If you look at celt_mdct_backward() in http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/celt/opusdec-0.006-float.tar.gz, you'll see yet another way. |
| 21:49:30 | derf | The fun part of that one being that it uses an FFT kernel instead of an inverse FFT. |
| 21:50:47 | saratoga | every codec i've seen has used a pair of complex multiplies |
| 21:51:18 | saratoga | i dont' really understand why this needs a pair of them followed by multiplication by 'sin'? |
| 21:51:24 | saratoga | sorry 'sine' |
| 21:51:43 | derf | No, no, it's one complex multiply. |
| 21:51:48 | derf | And then the thing with sine. |
| 21:52:04 | saratoga | ah i see |
| 21:52:10 | saratoga | getting crosseyed |
| 21:52:30 | derf | "sine" there is sin(PI/(8*N2)) |
| 21:52:46 | derf | cos(PI/(8*N2)) is basically 1. |
| 21:52:51 | saratoga | the goal being to save the extra multiplies? |
| 21:52:55 | derf | Yes. |
| 21:53:04 | derf | There's even a comment explaining this! |
| 21:53:33 | saratoga | i saw that |
| 21:53:40 | derf | :) |
| 21:53:42 | saratoga | how accurate is it? |
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| 21:54:34 | derf | cos(PI/(8*120)) = 0.999995 |
| 21:54:41 | derf | And that's the worst case. |
| 21:54:42 | n1s | Buschel: splitting the store so it requires one less reg helps a little but still slower than before so yeah i see no other way thean full blown asm of the butterflies |
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| 22:00 |
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| 22:32:07 | Buschel | n1s: i tried to write inline asm for the three consecutive C_MULC calls in the 4x-butterfly. still slower... gotte get some sleep now. tomorrow will start early for me |
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| 22:46:22 | bootinfdsds | Qu. I have $10k to invest in Rockbox HOW and Where do I do this .. ? |
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| 22:47:20 | Bagder | get it all in unmarked small bills and meet us midnight in the park! |
| 22:48:27 | | Nick scorche|1h is now known as scorche|sh (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) |
| 22:49:59 | bootinfdsds | Regents park is 10 mins away ... Is that OK ? |
| 22:50:59 | scorche|sh | we can neither confirm nor deny the existence of an agent in that area |
| 22:51:00 | bootinfdsds | Only got $ŁK in notes .. I'll have to cheque the rest, sorry. |
| 22:51:17 | bootinfdsds | **$3k |
| 22:52:35 | * | [Saint] isn't sure that Rockbox classes as an "investment" |
| 22:52:47 | [Saint] | That implies you'll see a return. You won't. |
| 22:53:01 | Bagder | well, we could convert it into buying into brewery products! |
| 22:53:07 | [Saint] | It'd be a donation, pure and simple. Nothing more. |
| 22:53:19 | Bagder | yeah, the return is not that good |
| 22:53:47 | bootinfdsds | How would it be spread across the group ? |
| 22:54:03 | [Saint] | Drunk, bloated, contented, meat-filled devs....sounds good to me :) |
| 22:54:03 | bootinfdsds | or is it just the website costs? |
| 22:54:39 | bootinfdsds | Doesn't anyone want to develop a new game or App. ? |
| 22:54:39 | [Saint] | bootinfdsds: various ways, I assume a lot of it would go to "the beer fund", some may go to new developers requesting devices, etc. |
| 22:55:00 | * | [Saint] points out that "the beer fund" pays for more than just beer. |
| 22:55:04 | Bagder | the costs for the site is covered by a sponsor anyway |
| 22:55:08 | [Saint] | ...it buys meat too! :P |
| 22:55:13 | gevaerts | bootinfdsds: if you want to pay for a specific feature, you can always talk to an individual developer |
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| 22:56:04 | scorche|sh | Bagder: well, your server, at least ;) |
| 22:56:04 | bootinfdsds | Personally , I'd like to do a kickstarter icontrol-pad device for the ipod classic ( 4 games / etc). |
| 22:56:26 | Bagder | scorche|sh: ah true, well the other servers are also sponsored at least =) |
| 22:56:28 | [Saint] | scorche|sh: I see what you did there ;) |
| 22:56:44 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: I believe some kind soul also hosts our forums for free |
| 22:56:50 | bootinfdsds | Badger, whos the sponsor ? |
| 22:56:55 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: it isnt free for him! ;) |
| 22:57:01 | Bagder | bootinfdsds: Haxx and scorche |
| 22:57:02 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: there is that :) |
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| 22:57:30 | Bagder | and a few more probably that I forget just now |
| 22:57:40 | * | gevaerts doesn't think trying to turn rockbox into a gaming device is a good idea |
| 22:57:43 | bootinfdsds | Anyone =! my kickstarter idea , or have a new one ? |
| 22:57:48 | scorche|sh | i have taken over most of rasher's stuff |
| 22:57:57 | bootinfdsds | **Anyone +1 my kickstarter idea , or have a new one ? |
| 22:58:02 | * | [Saint] agrees with gevaerts |
| 22:58:22 | [Saint] | It's a great idea, I'm just not sure that more than a dozen or so other people will think so. |
| 22:58:41 | [Saint] | It's pretty clearly not a gaming device. |
| 22:59:35 | bootinfdsds | Well, I may be wrong, but I thought it could be directly connected to a projector or HDTV .. and therefore connected to a gaming pad also ? |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:10 | bootinfdsds | My mum uses it on her tv |
| 23:00:32 | | Quit speckmade1 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:01:01 | * | bootinfdsds says : no jokes about bootinfdsds mum, please |
| 23:01:48 | gevaerts | If you want a homebuilt gaming device that's not very good, base it on a raspberry pi. *much* cheaper, direct USB ports, and more powerful altogether |
| 23:02:15 | Bagder | and way faster than most rockbox targets too =) |
| 23:03:16 | bootinfdsds | ipod more ubiquitious, though. |
| 23:03:33 | Bagder | really? |
| 23:03:39 | gevaerts | So are cardboard boxes |
| 23:03:47 | bootinfdsds | and accepted in society. |
| 23:03:49 | Bagder | I mean, ipods that people are prepared to run custom software on |
| 23:03:51 | gevaerts | That doesn't make them into usable gaming devices |
| 23:05:09 | | Quit amayer_ (Quit: going ~/) |
| 23:06:05 | bootinfdsds | I think if you showed DooM or another fps/rpg video on kickstarter to show what Rockbox Can Do, would make people buy into the brand more. |
| 23:07:15 | gevaerts | You can play doom on a toaster these days |
| 23:07:30 | bootinfdsds | People just need to buy the icontrol thingy ( that is already a 1 million dollar hit on kickstarter ) and you have proper used the open-source philosophy of the rockbox project, haven't you ? |
| 23:07:42 | bootinfdsds | **properly |
| 23:09:11 | gevaerts | Tricking people into investing large anmounts of money in a useless idea is open-source philosophy now? |
| 23:09:33 | bootinfdsds | What is the price of the best 2nd hand ipod that works with rockbox these days, anyway ? |
| 23:12:05 | bootinfdsds | gevaerts, Attracting a larger crowd of the cornerstone of open-source perpetuity. And you do this though crowd-sourcing/funding these days. |
| 23:12:12 | | Join linuxstb [0] (~linuxstb@host86-136-64-97.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:12:23 | gevaerts | You're talking nonsense |
| 23:12:32 | bootinfdsds | **crowd is |
| 23:12:51 | bootinfdsds | gevaerts, Your in a culvert. |
| 23:14:07 | | Part LinusN |
| 23:14:43 | bootinfdsds | I mean , what happens if your sponsors pull out ? |
| 23:15:29 | gevaerts | Then we buy them a beer and they'll reconsider |
| 23:15:36 | | Join speckmade1 [0] (~fnerd@port-92-202-105-94.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:15:53 | | Quit speckmade (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 23:16:02 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 23:19:04 | bootinfdsds | in 50 years ? |
| 23:20:44 | markun | bootinfdsds: I think you can give up now trying to convice gevaerts :) |
| 23:26:07 | bootinfdsds | markun, Yeah, source-code is all we need anyhow. |
| 23:26:26 | * | bootinfdsds akes his borg posistion, again. |
| 23:26:32 | bootinfdsds | **takes |
| 23:27:12 | gevaerts | As long as you remember the GPL... |
| 23:27:26 | saratoga | i don't see why you'd use an ipod for that when everyone has smartphones that can easily run doom |
| 23:27:59 | saratoga | apple doesn't put games on the old ipods because theres no demand for it |
| 23:31:36 | | Quit hype (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) |
| 23:34:34 | bootinfdsds | It's not for the 8ipod8 .. Its for the HDTV ! |
| 23:35:14 | | Quit sciopath (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:35:22 | | Join sciopath [0] (~sciopath@yer91-2-82-237-54-159.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:35:41 | saratoga | then using an ipod is even dumber |
| 23:35:59 | saratoga | pick something cheaper with a GPU and HDMI |
| 23:37:50 | bootinfdsds | but I have an ipod ... I'm recycling ! |
| 23:38:01 | | Quit Strife89 (Quit: Heading home.) |
| 23:39:28 | bootinfdsds | So do 300 million others. |
| 23:40:34 | | Join Provel_ [0] (~Provel@75-132-15-43.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) |
| 23:41:25 | | Join amayer [0] (~alex@h119.52.21.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 23:41:42 | * | bootinfdsds thinks, sometimes, you cant help change a hacker community for love nor money ! |
| 23:42:34 | bootinfdsds | **double negitive [love or money] |
| 23:43:01 | gevaerts | If you want to convince people, having a convincing idea is always a good start |
| 23:43:40 | saratoga | 300 million ipods, but very few of those are the classic |
| 23:44:28 | the-kyle | 300 million iPods? Sounds like more than there should be. Smiles. |
| 23:45:04 | | Quit Provel (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:45:20 | the-kyle | 300 million iPods == more iPods than people who want them. |
| 23:45:44 | bootinfdsds | I have them ! |
| 23:45:54 | bootinfdsds | ** I'll have them. |
| 23:46:02 | the-kyle | You have 300 million iPods? Where do you store them all? |
| 23:47:12 | saratoga | rockbox-community is probably a better place for off topic stuff |
| 23:47:39 | the-kyle | True, as per the IRC guidelines. |
| 23:47:57 | | Join Thra11_ [0] (~thrall@87.112.131.130) |
| 23:51:04 | | Quit Thra11 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:54:26 | | Quit Thra11_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:56:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).