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#rockbox log for 2012-10-23

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00:31:46amayeris the graphic equizer themeable?
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01:22:56Tornewait you were serious
01:23:05Tornepeople voted for me for the RSB?
01:23:14Torneoookay :)
01:23:31scorche|shit isn't like it has ever been called into action =)
01:23:47Torneone day i will actually contribute some more code to rockbox
01:23:50Tornethen you will all be surprised :p
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02:07:28geoffmHas anyone ever encountered a problem where the device won't boot (doesn't respond at all to the power button) but when plugged in it seems to behave fine?
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02:09:55scorche|shwhich device
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02:17:06JdGordongeoffm: sounds like a dead battery perhaps
02:22:32geoffmSansa Fuze +
02:23:12geoffmAfter 3 days of the device not working it just started working again
02:23:20geoffmI didn't seem to charge properly
02:23:31geoffmwhen it was plugged in it displayed something about the bootloader
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07:31:21pixelma_scorche: it has been called into action once (IIRC)
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07:34:46scorche`pixelma: yes - i seem to recall that too, but i wasn't really making a serious statement...
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14:08:56wodzDo anyone know how to contact dreamlayers?
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14:40:36amayer_would the last commit to gerrit effect all targets?
14:40:38amayer_the one about logdiskf?
14:42:06wodzit fixes badly written cpp conditional.
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14:43:50wodzROCKBOX_HAS_LOGDISKF is defined in config.h for NATIVE and SWCODEC. For others it substitutes NOTEF, WARNF and ERRORF with DEBUG (which is likely discarded as it works only in sim AFAIK)
14:44:36amayer_so the ipod classic has no log to disk function?
14:44:50wodzeek? why?
14:45:57amayer_im confused... you responded to my question with a questiong
14:46:51amayer_i noticed that the last commit didnt change the delta of the classic build. so i was wondering if the classic has a log to disk function. I thought log to disk was for all targets.
14:47:02wodzI responded what this commit do, so I am a bit surprised you ask for something I outlined just one line above
14:47:29wodzdeltas can come from building on other machine as well
14:48:22wodzbtw. I don't see any delta for classic with this commit
14:48:40amayer_wodz: when you say NATIVE and SWCODEC does that mean just running on a PC?
14:48:42amayer_then the targets only have NOTEF, etc...
14:49:25wodznative means it is full OS not an application running on top of something
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14:50:00wodzswcodec means that decoding is all done in software not like archos where there is dedicated mp3 hw decoder
14:50:16wodzit has nothing to do with PC
14:50:30amayer_ok. im starting to understand
14:51:06amayer_but rockbox runs native on the classic, so shouldnt it have logdiskf() ?
14:51:38wodzyou have it but there is almost no code using this api
14:51:53wodzso it is unlikely you see log file produced
14:52:24Torneamayer_: there is no delta to the classic build because wodz's change only affects the build when logdiskf() is *disabled*
14:52:37Tornei think the two of you are completely misunderstanding each other :)
14:53:01amayer_Torne: that makes sense
14:55:36amayer_but i did learn a little. like i didnt know that some mp3 players didnt have dedicated decoders for audio files
14:56:10wodzby some you mean most :-)
14:56:13Tornebasically no mp3 players have had dedicated decoders for many years :)
14:56:25amayer_the classic has one right?
14:56:29Torneno, not at all
14:56:45amayer_*mind blown*
14:57:01Tornethe ancient archoses have dedicated mp3 decoder chips (which is why they can't play other formats)
14:57:10Torneevery other player we support just runs software codecs on the CPU
14:57:40Tornethere are some modern cheap mp3 players that have weird DSP cores that do the decoding, but even there, the DSP core is not actually dedicated to decoding a single codec and has its own software, it's just a different architecture to the cpu
14:57:44Torne(we don't run on any such devices)
14:57:51Torne(their main CPUs tend to be far too tiny to run rockbox)
14:59:55wodzOnly partially true if we talk about *modern* SoCs. rk27xx includes quite powerful DSP we don't use, ATJ213x also and still they are capable of running rb. Modern SoCs have DSP for video processing
15:00:16Tornetrue, i guess.
15:00:22wodzand rk27xx is by no means modern :P
15:00:28Tornei meant, we don't run on devices that rely on DSP cores for audio decoding
15:00:33Tornebecause those things tend to be 8 bit CPUs
15:01:15Tornelike that S1 thing :p
15:01:33wodzbeloved z80 thingy :-)
15:03:43wodzBTW. I think elfloader should not be used by archoses. There is simply no point. Not speaking about the hassle with toolchain upgrade.
15:04:13Tornewell, i personally don't care about any non-ARM devices, so fine by me :p
15:04:36Tornebut yeah, the archoses are likely too ram limited to do any of the things that would be enabled by relocatable plugins
15:04:44Torneand obviously codecs aren't a thing
15:04:53wodzthats my point
15:05:07Torneso it seems rasonable to not worry about it on sh
15:06:32wodzI can't see clean way to leave old way for archoses and elf for others other then ... forking
15:06:47wodzthis change touches lots of places
15:07:51Tornei would've assumed that we could, in theory, rewrite the old loader to be interface compatible
15:08:17wodzThe biggest problem are linker scripts.
15:08:48wodzwell we can have two sets of them (legacy and elf compatible) but thats ugly
15:09:04Torneis it?
15:09:10Tornei mean, the legacy ones are done ;)
15:14:28wodzThis will be massive work. Some plugins use overlays which are redundant with elfs. I was about to scrap this part but if we want to maintain legacy stuff it must remain.
15:15:00wodzThis also means ifdefing plugin_crt0.c and plugin.c
15:15:23wodzah, and makefiles
15:17:03Tornei didn't mean ifdef plugin.c, i meant modify the exsiting code loader such that it presents the same interface
15:17:11Tornein order that plugin.c can treat them the same
15:17:34wodzok, plugin.c is not an issue
15:17:51Tornewhat's left to do?
15:18:25wodzit which area? elfloader or integration?
15:18:33Torneat all
15:19:05wodzintegration, MIPS toolchain upgrade, MIPS testing
15:19:27wodzsome documentation maybe
15:19:30Tornehave you posted some results on what the cost of this is, on the platforms where it's already working?
15:19:38Tornee.g. how much bigger plugins/codecs are, the binsize impact on core?
15:19:51wodzI didn't measure it yet
15:20:00Torneand i assume right now we are not actually deriving any benefit from it?
15:20:12Torneor are we now able to share iram between codec + plugin?
15:20:36wodzwe are able but don't do that
15:21:19Tornethat seems like it might be a fairly easy to implement proof of concept
15:21:36Torneloading multiple plugins or doing away with plugin buffer would be harder :)
15:21:37wodzThe only benefit for now is getting rid of overlay. If loading plugin fails due to out of ram in plugin buf we grab audiobuf and voila
15:22:25Torneyah, so the large plugins don't have to go through the fiddle of doing the overlay any more. that's something :)
15:23:44wodzIt should even not be necessary to pay special attention to buf management inside plugin as returned pointers and sizes account for place where plugin was loaded.
15:24:24Torneso, what i mean is, those things are nice but they are not actual new things that we can do, they just make plugins more convenient to write
15:25:37wodzcoming back to sharing iram between codec and plugin - there is little point. Most codecs uses vast majority of available iram
15:25:48Tornei guess.
15:26:20Torneanyway, yeah, the main thing i'd be interested to see is the size impact
15:26:28Tornenow that we have a POC
15:26:49wodzill try to measure soon.
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16:21:55lebellium"%Vl(volumedB,11,-1,25,8,3)" doesn't seem to work. I thought x and y could be negative values?
16:25:18amayer_can you have long viewport identifiers like "volumedB"?
16:25:21amayer_Ive only scene single letters used.
16:26:01lebelliumwith 0 instead of -1 it works fine
16:27:35amayer_wouldnt -1 put it off the screen?
16:28:03lebelliumyes I want that
16:28:18lebelliumand the customWPS guide says "The x and y values may be negative which means "pixels from the far edge".. i.e x == -50 means 50 pixels from the right edge "
16:28:59amayer_try -8 and see if that works
16:29:41lebelliumyes -8 works
16:32:10lebelliumbut then the whole viewport is out of the screen
16:32:52lebelliumI just need 1 or 2px off the screen
16:33:23gevaertsWhy do you need a viewport that's not entirely on the screen?
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16:35:57lebelliumbecause when using 10-Adobe-Helvetica.fnt it doesn't start at the top of the screen even setting 0 as y value
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16:36:29lebelliumI'm trying to move my all status bar 1px up to get 1 more line display
16:38:08gevaertsRight. I don't think you can do that
16:40:40lebelliumok so either I should let no space between the status bar and the UI viewport or I should use another similar font
16:40:48lebelliumor do nothing and let my theme like that...
16:41:56lebelliumbut it's a shame to lose 1 entire line just because of 1px
16:43:18amayer_im kinda confused about what you want to do. can you send me a screenshot?
16:43:20amayer_its probably more simple then what your trying
16:44:03lebelliumwhen the mini-player is off, one more line could display if I move the UI viewport 1px up
16:44:55amayer_do you use the built in status bar? or a custom one?
16:45:10lebelliumas you can see
16:45:13lebelliumit's a custome one
16:50:35amayer_why does your play/pause/stop/seek image have 2 pixels of padding for each item?
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16:51:03amayer_if you take that away you can make your status bar 7px. giving you the 1 pixle you need
16:51:20amayer_all your objects would be touching the top of the screen tho
16:51:31lebelliumthat's not the issue :)
16:52:04lebelliumwe were talking about font
16:52:12amayer_i get that
16:52:15lebelliumI'm looking for a similar font
16:52:29amayer_your view port is 1 pixel too small right?
16:52:54amayer_what size font are you looking for?
16:52:57lebelliumI'm currently making a 7px status bar and I already changed the playback icons
16:53:20amayer_an you still need 1 px?
16:53:22lebelliummaybe I'll put 7-fixed instead
16:54:05lebellium7-Fixed reaches the top of the screen when setting 0 as y value
16:54:27lebelliumIt's shame all fonts don't do that :(">
16:55:56amayer_search for -7-
16:55:58amayer_that will give you size 7 font there is a fixed version there
16:57:58amayer_(there is an 8 fixed and 10 fixed also)
16:59:59lebelliumI try with 7-Fixed from font pack for now and gonna trying the new version on my device now to see if starting at 0 y for the status bar is not too ugly visually
17:01:33lebelliumI generally prefer letting 1px free between the top of the screen and the status bar but well....
17:02:31amayer_the padding does look good
17:02:50amayer_i thought i had problems with makeing themes on my 320x240... no more reasons to complain
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17:17:10lebelliumOk what do you think? v1.01
17:17:23lebelliumnew version:
17:17:59lebelliumwith the new version, one more line displays when the mini-player is off. "FM radio" on the screenshot
17:18:19amayer_looks cleaner
17:19:01amayer_im not sure what it looks like on a device. but the images touching the top of the screen dont look that bad.
17:19:30lebelliumon my black clip+ it looks nice but I hardly make the difference between the case and the screen lol
17:19:41lebelliummaybe on a white clip+ it doesn't look that good
17:22:45nrgi like it lebellium
17:23:58lebelliumthanks for the feedback :)
17:24:35lebelliumdo you think guys it looks better with menu icons or without? I'm not sure icons look really nice on such a small screen
17:26:30nrgi'm a fan of not having icons and then no bar selector but just a different font color for the selected text
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17:29:33amayer_i like it better without icons too.
17:29:35amayer_I have yet to make a theme that uses icons. but that is just personal preference
17:30:03lebelliumanyways the user can use the "show icons" setting if he's not satisfied with the defaut setting
17:41:13amayer_very true
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19:30:03lebelliumamayer_ & nrg: I'm done, thank you :)
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20:44:03amayer_lebellim: did you update the pictures for the theme?
20:44:05amayer_i thought you were making the Vi bigger?
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21:49:29 Join Strife89 [0] (
21:50:46*Strife89 wonders if the Project News section on the website's home page will be updated.
21:53:21 Quit pretty_function (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
21:53:33 Join MasT3R [0] (
21:58:00 Quit y4n (Quit: PANTS OFF!)
22:04:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:17:14 Join Guinness` [0] (
22:19:00 Quit liar (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
22:20:49 Quit Guinness (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
22:20:49 Nick Guinness` is now known as Guinness (
22:24:00 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
22:29:10 Join nosa-j [0] (~m00k@
22:33:42 Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
22:38:10 Join nosa-j [0] (~m00k@
22:58:46 Quit amayer_ (Quit: going ~/)
23:31:40 Quit Horschti (Quit: Verlassend)
23:37:43 Quit Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose.)
23:52:10lebelliumamayer_ (log): the Vi is bigger when the mini-player is OFF. On the screenshot the mini-player is ON.

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