#rockbox 2012-10-29

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#rockbox log for 2012-10-29

00:00:09	[Saint]	in theory, an .rwps is just a .wps with an r prepended to it that excludes it from being used on the main screen for no real reason.
00:00:23	amayer	I don't fully understand how remote displays work. or what their themes look like. but I will look into it.
00:00:41	[Saint]	amayer: just think of a DAP that has two screens, basically.
00:01:08	lebellium	if we don't differentiate .wps and .rwps, H100 and H300 can't load a theme supporting remote since there will be twice the same file with the same name
00:01:12	[Saint]	there's really nothing different about the remote from the main screen wrt themes.
00:01:28	gevaerts	[Saint]: I suspect the main reason is that it's useful for two different files to have different filenames if they're in the same directory
00:01:50	amayer	what I understand is you want to give the users the option to post their remote theme as a main theme for other targets?
00:02:12	[Saint]	gevaerts: but, the differentiation needn't necessarily come from the extension though...right?
00:02:23	[Saint]	you could just as easily append -remote to the filename.
00:02:47	lebellium	I don't think so
00:02:53	lebellium	the file name has to be the same everywhere
00:02:54	[Saint]	why not?
00:03:01	[Saint]	why, rather?
00:03:23	[Saint]	the file justy needs to be named how the config expects it.
00:03:30	[Saint]	*just
00:04:22	[Saint]	I can't immediately see a reason why the themes all need to share the same naming scheme, in fact, they don't...because you can mix and match themes.
00:04:43	lebellium	hum I guess you're right. Only the cfg file and the wps sub-folder need the same name
00:05:25	[Saint]	that could be worked around too...but, I'm not 100% sure where I'm going with this yet ;)
00:05:49	amayer	confused why are we talking about filenames
00:06:13	lebellium	or maybe you're wrong. I also guess the wps sub-folder and the fms/wps/sbs files have to have the same name otherwise I can't load the bmp
00:06:14	lebellium	not sure now
00:06:26	lebellium	it can't*
00:08:25	[Saint]	wait, huh? You can load a .wps from theme A, an .sbs from theme B, and an .fms from theme C, ...so...where's the problem?
00:08:55	[Saint]	the config on the device (not the individual theme configs) know where to find the files associated with each theme element.
00:10:21	lebellium	yes but then there are different wps sub-folders. That means if you put a blabla.wps and a blabla_remote.wps you need 2 wps sub-folders called blabla and blabla_remote
00:10:43	*	[Saint] suspects he has confused himself, or at least one other, and re-reads.
00:11:41	[Saint]	lebellium: I'm not sure how that is a problem.
00:11:55	[Saint]	Is that not pretty much exactly how it works when you mix themes anyway?
00:12:15	lebellium	it's a problem because a theme cfg file is associated to a a single wps sub-folder
00:12:58	lebellium	when you mix themes, there is no longer cfg file problem
00:13:42	*	[Saint] is starting to understand why this got left for so long ;)
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00:14:40	lebellium	indeed, I don't think there is an easy solution to that so most probably that will remain like it is :D
00:15:00	*	[Saint] blames JdGordon because it's a fun thing to do
00:15:30	*	JdGordon throws feces at [Saint]
00:15:33	JdGordon	still fun?
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00:36:28	amayer	[Saint]: so I didn't get what all that was about. was it about adding the functionality to the theme site?
00:36:45	[Saint]	...possibly.
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00:41:24	amayer	ok
00:42:51	KiwiCAM_	A 10 band EQ? Would that come with a Theme tag?
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00:46:17	[Saint]	KiwiCAM_: need. more. context.
00:47:21	infantry	should i install rockbox to my clip+
00:47:40	[Saint]	infantry: if you want to...it's your device.
00:48:00	infantry	i just want to themes
00:48:04	infantry	i'm ok with firmware
00:48:24	infantry	but you cant have one without the other yes?
00:48:32	[Saint]	well, SanDisk can't help you there, so, I guess you know the answer already.
00:49:02	[Saint]	KiwiCAM_: I'll try again: "Why would it come with a theme tag?"
00:49:12	infantry	I see
00:49:39	infantry	i'm afraid i'll have worse sound quality
00:49:56	lebellium	no you won't
00:50:08	[Saint]	lebellium: "worse" is subjective.
00:50:19	[Saint]	A lot of people like how crappy the OF sounds.
00:50:23	lebellium	lol
00:50:30	amayer	Haha
00:50:42	infantry	what's OF?
00:50:49	[Saint]	Original Firmware
00:50:54	infantry	oh lol
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00:51:27	lebellium	you know
00:51:31	lebellium	it's dualboot
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00:51:34	infantry	is it possible to revert to original state
00:51:48	lebellium	dualboot means you don't take much risk to try rockbox
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00:52:00	infantry	ah so you can run the software you want
00:52:05	lebellium	indeed
00:52:08	infantry	that's pretty neat
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00:52:15	[Saint]	infantry: you can select at boot time.
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00:52:27	[Saint]	You should probably read our Fine Manual for your device.
00:53:05	infantry	was looking into that but just wanted some general information
00:53:21	infantry	thanks for help saint
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00:53:49	[Saint]	lebellium: wrt to sound quality, and specific to SanDisk players (recent ones, iiuc) there's a pitch variation bug that makes people freak out when they first hear Rockbox sometimes.
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00:54:05	KiwiCAM_	[Saint]: To display it.
00:54:21	[Saint]	making them think it is "worse" because they get so used to hearing the pitch variation that when they hear "pure" audio, they believe it sounds wrong.
00:55:00	[Saint]	KiwiCAM_: unless I'm mistaken, the 5 band EQ doesn't have one...so, why would the 10?
00:55:08	lebellium	Hum I did not notice that but I must admit I only tried the OF a few minutes on my Clip+, Clip Zip and Fuze...
00:55:49	lebellium	I'll compare more carefully the OF and rockbox then
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01:03:49	[Saint]	lebellium: googling "rockbox+Sansa+pitch variation" will likely yeild you a tonne of results.
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01:08:53	saratoga	scorche`: can you unblock me on the forums?
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01:13:52	lebellium	[Saint]: Okay I just read a bit about it. It's strange I never heard of that before. If I understood well, Sandisk is aware of that but deciced not to fully fix it?
01:14:37	[Saint]	My understanding of it is that htey basically said "Errrr, it's a feature, ...yeah....feature"
01:14:50	the-kyle	Seems Sandisk knows they don't have to fix bugs in their firmware, because they know Rockbox is so much better. <smiles>
01:15:42	[Saint]	I'm pretty sure they released a (partial?) fix after it was brought to their attention (by this very community, iirc).
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01:16:15	the-kyle	Indeed.
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01:26:53	lebellium	I'm comparing in real time pitch on my computer and on the clip+ with OF and indeed there is a variation I never noticed Oo
01:27:40	[Saint]	I believe to actually percieve this change, you need to be male an ~22 years of age.
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01:27:48	saratoga	they run one of their PLLs at a setting that can't get the pitch right, and they don't want to have to fix everything to use a new frequency
01:27:57	lebellium	I'm a 22 year-old male :D
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01:28:05	[Saint]	well, that increases the odds dramatically, as I understand it. Human bodies are funny things.
01:29:30	saratoga	i don't think age matters much
01:29:41	saratoga	its just that most people aren't good with absolute pitch
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01:58:38	amayer	has anyone looked at: http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/
02:00
02:04:29		Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121023124120])
02:06:11	JdGordon	amayer: i hate php, but that looks sensible
02:06:15	JdGordon	whitespace issues
02:06:33	[Saint]	amayer: fix up your whitespace
02:06:42	[Saint]	eeek, creepy.
02:06:45	amayer	what do you mean white space issues?
02:07:10	[Saint]	use a sane editor, that can display whitespace, and you should see what we mean.
02:07:29	amayer	I use heritage...
02:07:44	amayer	gedit* stupid autocorrect
02:07:53	[Saint]	it's basically a way of saying "needless spacing exists"
02:08:10	[Saint]	Hmmm, that could be interpreted in a way other than I mean it.
02:08:30	amayer	I use 4 spaces for a tab. is that what you mean?
02:08:53	[Saint]	No, not doing that will get you yelled at too ;)
02:11:04	amayer	soo... is it spaces after the lines? can I get an example of what I need to change?
02:11:12	[Saint]	Uuuuggghhh...gedit really doesn't have a "display whitespace"?
02:11:20	amayer	I'm using a fixed width font.
02:11:22	[Saint]	yuck.
02:11:53	[Saint]	not yuck font, yuck gedit.
02:14:10	[Saint]	amayer: gerrit can show you.
02:14:17	[Saint]	http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/1/private/themesite.class.php , for instance.
02:14:49	[Saint]	look for instances of red (though I'm sure gerrit could be tricked into missing whitespace in the diff so, probably not the best way to do this ;))
02:15:14	saratoga	a lot of editors can be set to strip trailing white space automatically, although that can be risky too since we tend to commit it and then if you strip it your commit will be weird
02:15:19	JdGordon	amayer: 4 space for tabs, and no trailing whitespace
02:16:36	[Saint]	gedit can at least do the former without fuckery or a plugin.
02:20:57	amayer	are you just talking about the spaces at the begining of the code I commited?
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02:22:39	amayer	that's the only red i see(on my phone)
02:24:38	[Saint]	yes, it looks like a spot where you tabbed accidentally on the new line separating your addition.
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02:24:55	[Saint]	and, likely didn't notice this because your editor has no way of showing this to you.
02:26:11	amayer	oh ok... ill fix it when I get home
02:27:34	[Saint]	there's three big things with the source afaik: comment style, whitespace, and tabs. While your code may be correct, it still wouldn't be committed in this state.
02:28:34	[Saint]	there's a styler guideline floating around somewhere, but, that's pretty much it. Kill whitespace, use 4 spaces for Tab, and don't go awol on the comment style.
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02:28:41	[Saint]	*style
02:30:06	amayer	I do that at work its kind of a habit. ill take them out
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05:21:57	amayer	[Saint]: JdGordon: can you check out g#337 again?
05:21:59	amayer	I made the changes requested
05:22:51	amayer	no idea how to use the bot that posts gerrit stuffhttp://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/
05:23:11	JdGordon	i really try to avoid php
05:23:34	amayer	i think so does everyone else in the chat
05:23:37	amayer	thanks anyway
05:23:54	amayer	scorche: ^
05:25:04	JdGordon	you still need to coordinate with scorche` to put it online anyway no?
05:25:18	JdGordon	or get him to give you access(?)
05:26:20	amayer	yes i still need to do that
05:26:37	amayer	or i might see about creating some kind of hook
05:27:27	amayer	do we have any source for an irc bot?
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05:42:12	scorche`	amayer: your emailed db.class file is now live on the theme site
05:42:25	scorche`	looks fine at first glance...
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05:42:39	amayer	scorche: no dont do that
05:42:56	scorche	amayer: i wasnt planning on making it permanent - just saying ti appears to work ;)
05:43:19	amayer	wipes sweat off forehead oh ok
05:43:22	amayer	but it works?
05:43:27	scorche	see for yourself
05:43:45	amayer	oh its on the real site?
05:44:01	amayer	yeah if stuff loads then it still works
05:44:08	amayer	sweet
05:44:21	*	scorche switches it back to the old one
05:44:49	amayer	well can you check out the commit i made on gerrit?
05:44:52	amayer	http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/337/
05:44:54	amayer	i guess i need another reviewer besides you.
05:45:04	amayer	ill clean up the database class and commit that too
05:45:15	scorche	i really am not the best person to review these things...
05:46:06	amayer	well shit... who in here knows php?
05:46:15	amayer	or perl?
05:46:24	amayer	php is basically perl- -
05:46:34	scorche	...it is?
05:46:48	amayer	yup
05:48:15	amayer	there are some things you can do in perl that you cant do in php and some things in php that you cant do in perl.
05:48:18	amayer	but from my use(~6 years) they are very similar
05:48:39	amayer	but syntax wise they are almost identical
05:49:02	amayer	how does that work if nobody is qualified to review themesite code?
05:49:25	scorche	there are a few that could probably have a look at it
05:52:10	scorche	PHP and perl may be similar in many ways, but i certianly wouldnt say "php is basically perl"... but then again, that is a conversation for the other channel ;)
05:54:12	scorche	either way, people who have previously worked on the site who you can try to hunt down would likely be rasher, gevaerts, bluebrother, domonoky, and mcuelenaere
05:55:46	amayer	scorche: thanks
05:56:44	amayer	I think im going to bed. its 1am here and i have work in the morning. Ill work on cleaning the database class tomorrow,
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10:22:38	copper	Any chance of incorporating the 10 band EQ patch into the main rockbox builds?
10:22:51	copper	I have it on my iPod Classic but I miss it on my Clip+
10:23:59	copper	with that patch, I can exactly replicate my desktop configuration
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13:49:33	amayer	bluebrother: gevaerts: ping
13:49:53	amayer	do you guys know php?
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14:08:01	michaelr	Quick question, tried Google, hardly found an answer.
14:08:22	michaelr	It's about development.
14:11:30	amayer	michaelr: what is your question?
14:13:48	michaelr	Well I read the thing on the RockBox website about choosing "development" over "music" or "library" but I would really like to make mine say "library." I've scrambled through root_menu.c/h and somethingnavi.conf but I can't seem to find where the create menu command is for the root menu, does it even exist?
14:14:48	Torne	..do you mean choosing "database"
14:15:14	Torne	otherwise that sentence is hard to parse
14:15:36	michaelr	Yea, like on the very first menu, where it lists Files, Database, Now Playing, and stuff like that. How do I change the word database to library.
14:15:49	michaelr	I'm sorry, this is a little weird to explain.
14:16:37	Torne	The actual strings displayed to the user are not in the code at all,which is why you can't find them :)
14:16:51	Torne	you can just edit the langauge file for your language.
14:17:34	Torne	apps/lang/*.lang, LANG_TAGCACHE
14:17:42	michaelr	So I need to be looking in the language file? Because other menus, e.g. Settings menu, General settings, those are actually in code.
14:17:55	Torne	No, all user-visible strings are in the language file
14:18:08	Torne	The menus are defined in the code, but they only include internal identifiers for the menu options
14:18:35	Torne	The main menu is handled differently to the others because it can be reordered by the user in their config, so the code that creates it is very different looking
14:18:42	Torne	but for any menu, all the displayed strings are from the langauge file
14:19:46	michaelr	Oh, that actually makes sense. I'm used to stuff like PHP.
14:20:03	copper	that's common practice in PHP as well
14:20:15	Torne	yes, this is standard practise for pretty much anything that supports internationalisation :)
14:20:18	michaelr	A language file?
14:20:21	Torne	yes
14:20:45	Torne	lots of php apps work this way too :)
14:20:56	Torne	there are localisation systems in the php standard libraries that do it :)
14:21:46	michaelr	I wouldn't know, I've never really done anything that would require a language file, I just set usually have a folder for my functions and what not, that get's the same thing done, at least for what I've had to do.
14:23:16	michaelr	So, I found it, do I need to change all of them under <source>, <dest> and <voice>, or will that mess something up?
14:27:58	Torne	source is the original english string, used by translators
14:28:02	Torne	dest is the actual string that gets displayed
14:28:12	Torne	voice is the string that gets used when generating voice data
14:28:20	Torne	it happens for english.lang that source and dest are the same :)
14:31:14	michaelr	You know, discovering what the language files did, makes understanding this code so much easier, I don't know why I didn't even look there, at the time it just didn't make sense.
14:31:18	michaelr	Thank you!
14:32:45	michaelr	I'm sure that I'll probably be back sometime, I'm attempting to learn C, and this is how I like to learn, just jump right into the code. See ya.
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14:51:04	michaelr	Look who's back.
14:59:29	amayer	welcome back
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15:01:15	copper	lol
15:02:22	amayer	does anyone in the chat now know php?
15:05:12	funman	amayer: was that meant for #rockbox-community ?
15:06:05	amayer	funman: no it was not. im trying to get code reviewed on gerrit... so far after ~3 days of trying i cant find anyone on here qualified to review my code for the theme site
15:07:10	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:08:53	funman	sorry, I don't know php. Try to send a mail on the developers list maybe?
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15:44:54	soap	Is there any good reason to use URL shortening services in the wiki?
15:45:06	soap	For example, the use of fav.me on this page: http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1698&target=ipodvideo
15:45:54	Zagor	I think there are many good reasons not to use them
15:46:10	soap	It seems to me that this serves only to make the link more likely to break. Since the shortener appears to link to a rather bog-standard deviantart URL I see no reason not to use the "real" address.
15:47:36	soap	amayer, would you please edit those URLs on the themes page?
15:47:58	soap	(and anywhere else you have used such)
15:48:47	soap	Hmm, or is fav.me a deviantart-specific service?
15:49:08	Zagor	I don't think it matters
15:49:12	amayer	fav.me is the link that is given on the deviant art page under the "link to" section
15:49:38	copper	fav.me redirects to http://www.deviantart.com/
15:49:45	amayer	i was just going to say that
15:49:58	Zagor	I still want to know where the links point to.
15:50:48	Zagor	we are not twitter :-)
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16:14:07	amayer	Zagor: i will see about doing that when i have some free time later this week
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16:20:10	minouch	hello guys
16:20:52	minouch	Is it planed to get mails about source code change back?
16:20:57	minouch	Like svn days
16:21:30	minouch	Is that a sort of gerrit option you didnt use yet?
16:23:51	Zagor	minouch: we're supposed to have it. I'm not sure why it doesn't work yet. it's my responsibility.
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16:33:32	minouch	Zagor: OK, that would be very good to have back
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17:14:54	amayer	can someone that can see spam tell me if the thing being posted to:
17:14:56	amayer	http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=39326
17:14:58	amayer	is really spam?
17:15:00	amayer	Ive gotten 3 notices in the last 2 hours and am not sure if spam bots just think im fun to talk to or if someone has a valid opinion/question for me
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17:38:59	soap	amayer, I'm not sure how to tell if akismet-removed spam was in your thread or not, but I don't see a reason to suspect the thread activity notification bit is lying to you...
17:39:16	soap	I see nothing in the spam pile which isn't spam.
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17:44:02	amayer	soap: thank you.
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18:06:31	butum	hi
18:06:55	butum	i need help for unbrick sansa clip+
18:07:26	butum	i need OF-Image for it
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18:15:46	funman	how did you brick it ?
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18:27:02	gevaerts	amayer: sorry, no
18:28:37	amayer	gevaerts: thanks anyway
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20:49:46	bluebrother^	amayer: pong. A bit.
20:51:20	*	bluebrother^ considers releasing Rockbox Utility 1.3.1 soonish
20:51:38	bluebrother^	anyone has open issues that should get addressed first?
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23:03:11	JdGordon	bluebrother^: still around?
23:07:16	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:41:46	bluebrother^	JdGordon: somewhat
23:42:58		Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
23:43:40	JdGordon	bluebrother^: do you have access to a mac for rbutil builds?
23:47:28	bluebrother^	yes.
23:47:44	JdGordon	ok then, never mind :p
23:47:48	JdGordon	unless you need a backup
23:48:22	bluebrother^	hopefully that machine will live for another while :)
23:48:49	bluebrother^	but in case it breaks I know who to ping :)
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