| 00:00:03 | * | scorche` would think it would be better to have B, C, A |
| 00:00:11 | amayer | agreed |
| 00:00:31 | scorche` | not like the ratings really matter - someone could just come along and skew the ratings quite easily, no? |
| 00:00:45 | AlexP_ | at the same time I don't think it is massively important |
| 00:00:47 | amayer | I think so |
| 00:01:08 | amayer | AlexP_: I noticed it |
| 00:01:18 | amayer | i figured it wouldnt be that hard to fix |
| 00:01:49 | AlexP_ | sure, I'm not objecting |
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| 02:53:28 | yuriks | Hey |
| 02:53:49 | yuriks | I was working on the glyph fallback patch a few months ago |
| 02:54:02 | JdGordon | hi |
| 02:54:09 | yuriks | I picked it up again |
| 02:54:22 | yuriks | Just want to know, is a change in the .fnt format much frowned upon? |
| 02:54:39 | yuriks | existing .fnt files would work on the new version |
| 02:55:06 | JdGordon | as long as all the tools are updated it should be fine |
| 02:55:13 | JdGordon | especially if the change is backwards comapatible |
| 02:55:40 | yuriks | I want to change it so that missing glyphs get -1 on the offset/width table, instead of pointing to a dummy character |
| 02:59:10 | JdGordon | that sounds ok |
| 03:00 |
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| 05:55:08 | JdGordon | [Saint]: you wanted something last night? |
| 06:00 |
| 06:01:20 | [Saint] | not like the ratings really matter - someone could just come along and skew the ratings quite easily, no? |
| 06:01:50 | [Saint] | scorche`: ^ that *could* happen, if you were rather dedicated, or had a large amount of IPs to throw around. |
| 06:02:09 | [Saint] | I believe it is limited to 1 rating, per theme, per IP, per day. |
| 06:02:29 | [Saint] | JdGordon: I was wondering something about alternating sublines. |
| 06:04:09 | [Saint] | I wondered if the %t(time_out) tag just made everything before a ";" a subline, or if you could do "Some_text_that_doesn't_alternate %t(time_out)some_text_that_does; %t(time_out)other_text_that_alternates" |
| 06:07:20 | JdGordon | that quote was all on one line? |
| 06:07:27 | [Saint] | yes. |
| 06:07:31 | JdGordon | that cant be done |
| 06:07:41 | [Saint] | right, thanks. all I needed to know. |
| 06:07:43 | JdGordon | though, hmm |
| 06:08:03 | [Saint] | I assumed so, and I looked at the code and I was pretty damn sure...but I just wanted to confirm. |
| 06:08:04 | JdGordon | when/how would it make sense anyway? |
| 06:10:11 | [Saint] | I wanted to do "%Sx(Next Track:) %t(foo)some_metadata; %t(foo)some_more_metadata" instead of "%t(foo)%Sx(Next Track:) some_metadata; %t(foo)%Sx(Next Track:) some_more_metadata" |
| 06:10:30 | [Saint] | (to avoid a small amount of needless repetition) |
| 06:10:49 | [Saint] | It's no big deal though, I can certainly deal with it. |
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| 06:21:55 | JdGordon | [Saint]: autosizing+layouts for viewports would be more useful |
| 06:22:01 | JdGordon | and would make that possible |
| 06:22:19 | [Saint] | I don't really see how... |
| 06:23:36 | [Saint] | All I wan't to be able to do is "some_static_text some_text_that_alternates" without weird viewport fuckery or having to reproduce the static text in each and every subline. |
| 06:23:45 | [Saint] | but, it really isn't important ;) |
| 06:24:28 | JdGordon | you'd have 2 (child)viewports... one has "%Sx(Next Track:) ", the other has the sublines and would be glued to the first |
| 06:24:59 | JdGordon | Also, i think the way we do metadata display is just stupid |
| 06:25:08 | [Saint] | yeah, that's way messier (imo) than just reproducing a bit of text that adds a few b to the theme total. |
| 06:25:17 | JdGordon | why should the themer decide what to display? surely it should be up to the user |
| 06:25:24 | [Saint] | and, what about it would you like to change? |
| 06:25:37 | JdGordon | i.e theme says "show 5 lines of metadata", user says "great, do these:" |
| 06:26:32 | JdGordon | i.e there would be some file which has just text tags which we'd import |
| 06:26:35 | [Saint] | Oh, that...yeah. Just, don't do any breaking changes before I get this cabbie for native targets finished ;) |
| 06:26:43 | [Saint] | You can break it all you like after that :P |
| 06:26:54 | JdGordon | this would mean you wouldnt need to do that at all |
| 06:27:04 | JdGordon | we'd ship 1 file all cabbies would use |
| 06:27:30 | JdGordon | and dont worry, my rockbox time has dropped to Not-Very-Much-At-All :( |
| 06:29:29 | [Saint] | When I do eventually push this to gerrit (my time is pretty much nil with the family invasion at my apartment presently), is it too much to push the code re-work (mainly cosmetic/unification work with very little changes) and change the default font as well? |
| 06:29:37 | [Saint] | Or, better as two seperate reviews? |
| 06:30:09 | [Saint] | I want everything that can to use an antialiased GNU Unifont so langs "Just Work" |
| 06:30:53 | [Saint] | A user changing the lang and finding out exactly how limited the default font (mainly Helvetica iirc) is on their target really isn't too nice. |
| 06:31:34 | [Saint] | if you want Hebrew or Arabic with cabbie on some targets it's just a joke :) |
| 06:32:33 | [Saint] | And it's non-obvious that the user would need to change the font, and in many cases changing to the only GNU variant we have will break the theme terribly as we only have a 16px version and many targets use a much smaller font. |
| 06:33:12 | [Saint] | ....luckily, I have a fat stack of antialised GNU unifonts in my github, plus the recipes to reproduce them ;) |
| 06:33:31 | JdGordon | [Saint]: did you RaaAa cabbie changes ever get pushed? |
| 06:34:21 | [Saint] | (the slight issue is that we build the fonts "on demand", and each font needs a slightly different recipe to make it look right. So it would be better to retrieve pre-made fonts from the source instead of build them on demand IMO. |
| 06:34:24 | [Saint] | ) |
| 06:34:49 | [Saint] | and no, but I plan to do so either at the same time as, or slightly thereafter, the native cabbie stuff I'm working on. |
| 06:36:25 | [Saint] | the only issue with retrieving the pre-made fonts is that if ever the font's source updates, the committer needs to remember to generate the new version of the font. |
| 06:36:49 | [Saint] | but, I looked at the commit history and the fonts pretty much never do get updated. |
| 06:37:35 | * | JdGordon wonders how the fuck this user metadata choice thing would work |
| 06:37:55 | JdGordon | I don't tihnk it would be easy to hook into the tag parser to do it |
| 06:38:31 | * | JdGordon goes to contemplate this idea on the dunny |
| 06:38:47 | [Saint] | I was going to bring up the font thing on the ml tonight, but I'm not sure I have the energy, so...tomorrow. |
| 06:51:01 | JdGordon | [Saint]: what do you tihnk of the idea of a metadata.xxx which is a wps with a bunch of special viewports in it, each only allowing text based tags which get used from other skins? |
| 06:51:34 | JdGordon | i.e there would be a viewport named "this_track_1_line" which expects exactly one line of text |
| 06:52:22 | [Saint] | define "bunch of special viewports", ideally, I would think it should just be reading metadata display code that is verbatim to that which you would find in any other theme. |
| 06:52:41 | [Saint] | essentially just throwing the existing metadata portion of cabbie out into its own file. |
| 06:52:56 | JdGordon | so in cabbie you'd have a viewport for the "this track" data and you'd call %XX(4) - which would then pull in the text from the this_track_4_lines viewport |
| 06:53:08 | [Saint] | I'd prefer it not have any crazy magic or special formatting, the theme itself should define the viewport. |
| 06:53:22 | JdGordon | yes, the theme itself would |
| 06:53:25 | JdGordon | only the text would be used |
| 06:53:47 | JdGordon | it might even be a new tag all together |
| 06:53:55 | JdGordon | I'm not sure if this would work, but it might |
| 06:54:14 | [Saint] | Oooooooohhhh, right, your initial explanation confused me. But, we're on the same track, yes. |
| 06:54:20 | JdGordon | we already allow the wps to draw inside the sbs, so this owuldnt be so different |
| 06:54:28 | [Saint] | I wouldn't like the viewport to define how many lines it has, though. |
| 06:54:40 | [Saint] | it should display as many full lines as the font allows it to. |
| 06:55:01 | JdGordon | the themer will know how many lines will fit |
| 06:55:13 | [Saint] | but some themes dont hardcode a font. |
| 06:55:19 | JdGordon | true |
| 06:55:35 | JdGordon | need to think about this some more, and find time to code it |
| 07:00 |
| 07:05:56 | * | JdGordon thinks this might actually be very doable |
| 07:07:28 | JdGordon | maybe we should just switch to css and java :p |
| 07:07:31 | JdGordon | javascript* |
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| 08:31:47 | [Saint] | crapbuckets! |
| 08:32:20 | Clear_runway | anyone there? |
| 08:32:29 | * | [Saint] just confirmed his theory that post; edit post immediately on the forum == akismet trigger |
| 08:32:47 | [Saint] | Clear_runway: multiple someones, in fact. |
| 08:33:04 | Clear_runway | cool. I'm getting a weird problem on my ipod touch 2g. |
| 08:33:22 | Clear_runway | what happens is the the top of the screen sort of flashes on the bottom |
| 08:33:31 | [Saint] | well, seeing as we don;t support that device an any way shape or form, I'm pretty sure you should talk to Apple. |
| 08:33:31 | Clear_runway | this only happens in rockbox |
| 08:33:40 | Clear_runway | oh shit |
| 08:33:41 | [Saint] | we do NOT support the iPod Touch |
| 08:33:44 | Clear_runway | i meant ipod nano |
| 08:33:50 | Clear_runway | whoops |
| 08:34:02 | [Saint] | Aha, that's better ;) |
| 08:34:10 | Clear_runway | I think its some sort of driver glitch |
| 08:34:24 | [Saint] | running what revision of Rockbox? |
| 08:34:27 | Clear_runway | i tried rebooting. i tried reinstalling rockbox |
| 08:34:30 | Clear_runway | er, just a sec |
| 08:37:09 | Clear_runway | 54ef306-121026 |
| 08:38:06 | [Saint] | Is the same visual glitch present in the current release? |
| 08:38:44 | Clear_runway | dunno. it looks faded, like it's flashing every other frame. |
| 08:39:11 | [Saint] | by "current release' I don't mean the current development snapshot, but the release build. |
| 08:40:51 | Clear_runway | oh, and one other thing. if i leave it alone and the display turns off, it just crashes. white screen with blue lines running across. |
| 08:42:12 | [Saint] | .uuuuugh, shit on it. that's right, the n2g release is ~2 releases behind. |
| 08:42:31 | [Saint] | dammit, I was hoping for something slightly closer to git HEAD as a "known good". |
| 08:43:58 | [Saint] | I can't do anything about it right now, but I can test later this evening or tomorrow afternoon with a slew on n2g (with various LCD types). |
| 08:44:01 | Clear_runway | but yeah, it's not borken hardware, only happens in rockbox. |
| 08:45:04 | [Saint] | well, as I can't look at confirming or denying this right now, it would help if you could outline your findings in http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?type=2 |
| 08:45:37 | [Saint] | include steps to reproduce the problem, the revision used, and any other details you find applicable. |
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| 10:07:02 | max3 | can someone help me out? i have an old school mini with rockbox on it with a cf card and it's on the fritz. i get the !folder icon on boot and then it resets. if i try to put it in disk mode it'll reset out as soon as it's recognized by my computer. i can access diag mode |
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| 10:35:04 | max3 | can someone help me out? i have an old school mini with rockbox on it with a cf card and it's on the fritz. i get the !folder icon on boot and then it resets. if i try to put it in disk mode it'll reset out as soon as it's recognized by my computer. i can access diag mode |
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| 10:39:12 | gevaerts | [Saint]: post/edit is presumably submitted twice to akismet, which I suspect sees it as mass posting |
| 10:47:42 | [Saint] | gevaerts: aha, I was thinking something along those lines. |
| 10:48:08 | gevaerts | So if you edit, just translate it to French at the same time or something :) |
| 10:48:15 | [Saint] | I was thinking there was some "X post per/s" rule, or so. But thatnks for (half) confirming my suspicions. |
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| 10:48:56 | [Saint] | gevaerts: were you able to dig my last post out of the spam bucket, please? |
| 10:48:59 | | Quit ender` (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 10:49:02 | [Saint] | (if you've not done so already) |
| 10:49:11 | gevaerts | Yes |
| 10:49:45 | [Saint] | I really wish there was some form of "trusted user" setting. |
| 10:49:55 | [Saint] | like a post count of 100+ or something. |
| 10:50:37 | [Saint] | I would say at that stage, posts from said user are likely legit ;) |
| 10:53:57 | JdGordon | [Saint]: what are you doing on cabbie now? |
| 10:54:05 | JdGordon | and rpely to my pm! |
| 10:54:35 | [Saint] | JdGordon: syntax updates, code formatting/commenting, and unification. |
| 10:54:39 | [Saint] | and....pm? |
| 10:54:46 | * | [Saint] doesn't seem to have one. |
| 10:55:55 | [Saint] | a few cabbies still predate alignment tags and viewports...uuugh. |
| 10:56:00 | copper | When does System -> Running Time reset? |
| 10:56:01 | [Saint] | so, I guess I'll do them too. |
| 10:57:04 | JdGordon | gtg |
| 10:57:18 | [Saint] | copper: time between a full charge cycle iirc. |
| 10:57:47 | [Saint] | (disclaimer: running off memory) |
| 10:58:00 | copper | it doesn't seem to reset after I charge it |
| 10:58:48 | [Saint] | I think it's the time between the last full charge and the last full discharge |
| 10:58:49 | copper | on an iPod Classic btw, not sure whether that's relevant or not |
| 10:59:12 | [Saint] | I _think_ |
| 10:59:23 | [Saint] | not really in a position to poke at the source right now. |
| 10:59:38 | copper | ok, thanks |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:00 | [Saint] | The manual should explain this. |
| 11:00:09 | [Saint] | (I can't really check that now either) |
| 11:00:38 | [Saint] | "This item shows the cumulative overall runtime of your player since you either disconnected it from charging (in Rockbox) or manually reset this item. A manual reset is done through pressing any button, followed by pressing Select or Next." |
| 11:01:00 | copper | not sure it's working properly then |
| 11:01:09 | [Saint] | so, it should be "time since disconnected from charge" |
| 11:02:25 | [Saint] | there's also (or should be) "top time": "This item shows the cumulative overall runtime of your player since you last manually reset this item. A manual reset is done through pressing any button, followed by pressing Select or Next." |
| 11:05:50 | copper | yeah I reset them both |
| 11:05:57 | copper | trying to determine battery life |
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| 11:06:23 | [Saint] | run a battery benchmark. |
| 11:07:41 | [Saint] | also, check if the runtime is displayed correctly ina current development build: http://build.rockbox.org/data/rockbox-ipod6g.zip |
| 11:07:50 | [Saint] | if not, please report it on flyspray |
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| 11:09:09 | [Saint] | copper: ^ |
| 11:10:17 | copper | I'm using a custom build that's supposedly current |
| 11:11:01 | wodz | AFAIK classic doesn't have CURRENT* defines set so at least remining time will be -1 or something |
| 11:12:03 | [Saint] | copper: then, please don't report bugs on said build ;) |
| 11:12:18 | [Saint] | please, test and verify with the current *rockbox* build. |
| 11:12:24 | copper | ok |
| 11:13:16 | [Saint] | Mr. Jimmy Johnson's random build *may* be clean git HEAD, but, it likely isn't...if it was, it wouldn't need to exist :) |
| 11:13:37 | copper | it's got a 10 band EQ patch which I really like |
| 11:13:42 | [Saint] | the link above always points to the current build no matter what. |
| 11:15:08 | pamaury | JdGordon: ping |
| 11:16:43 | copper | [Saint]: bookmarked |
| 11:22:56 | [Saint] | copper: yeah, it's not publicly facing anywhere afaik, due to the port status, but it is a handy link for those that have already "taken the plunge" to have. |
| 11:23:29 | [Saint] | I really need to poke those emCORE boys into putting it up somewhere in the installation instructions |
| 11:23:53 | [Saint] | (since, you guys *must* be coming from emCORE...) |
| 11:24:41 | max3 | can someone help me out? i have an old school mini with rockbox on it with a cf card and it's on the fritz. i get the !folder icon on boot and then it resets. if i try to put it in disk mode it'll reset out as soon as it's recognized by my computer. i can access diag mode |
| 11:25:10 | copper | [Saint]: I thought there was talk about promoting the iPod Classic port to "unstable" |
| 11:25:49 | copper | from my personal experience, it's mostly the USB part that needs some work |
| 11:26:46 | Torne | it's not promoted because it's not possible to install it using our tools or following our instructions |
| 11:27:10 | [Saint] | copper: it needs a Rockbox bootloader for that. |
| 11:27:24 | [Saint] | Which, also means RbUtil support. |
| 11:27:38 | copper | I see |
| 11:27:39 | [Saint] | emCORE is far to non-user-friendly presently. |
| 11:28:20 | [Saint] | a "rockbox bootloader" would likely be a stub of emCORE itself, sand "facy-stuffs" |
| 11:28:32 | copper | sans* :) |
| 11:28:53 | [Saint] | hey, the s and the d are like *right* there, ok? :P |
| 11:30:00 | [Saint] | ideally, all the end user would need to do is place the device in DFU mode and point the installer (RbUtil) could take over from there. |
| 11:30:08 | copper | that would be nice |
| 11:30:10 | | Quit derk0pf () |
| 11:30:34 | [Saint] | it's just one of those 'round-toit things ;) |
| 11:30:35 | copper | why hide the rockbox builds though |
| 11:30:51 | copper | emcore installation is easy enough for those who really want it |
| 11:31:03 | [Saint] | copper: there's no reason to make them publically available, really. |
| 11:31:12 | [Saint] | there's no way of installing them officially ;) |
| 11:31:26 | copper | uh |
| 11:31:53 | [Saint] | keep in mind that although emCORE and Rockbox are closely related, and share developers, they are two entirely seperate projects. |
| 11:31:53 | copper | what is it? You don't want people to come here and complain? |
| 11:32:35 | copper | I'm not complaining personally |
| 11:32:47 | copper | quite the opposite |
| 11:34:27 | [Saint] | Oh, I know. I'm just explaining. There's no way to install the port "officially", so the build needn't be publicly facing. |
| 11:35:06 | [Saint] | and, it isn't "hidden", it just isn't public. ;) |
| 11:35:26 | * | [Saint] takes off the pedantic hat |
| 11:43:55 | soap | I just removed a subnet ban on *.hostkey.ru |
| 11:44:29 | soap | I had /intended/ it to be a 14 day ban, 8 months ago. Clearly I had checked the wrong box. |
| 11:45:13 | [Saint] | hahaha |
| 11:45:23 | * | [Saint] vaguely remembers that ban. |
| 11:45:24 | soap | I'll be traveling the next 48 hours, but I just want to point out there have been 15,197 hits on that trigger. While it seems harsh to perm ban an entire subnet, we may want to actually talk about it. |
| 11:46:05 | [Saint] | 15,197 total, or, since "just now"?!? |
| 11:46:21 | evilnick | [Saint]: total, I hope! |
| 11:46:28 | * | [Saint] too... |
| 11:46:43 | soap | 15K since January |
| 11:47:06 | soap | mind you that's a thousand times the average hits on one of my experimental IP bans from the same period. |
| 11:48:34 | | Join derk0pf [0] (~k@p5DDC1CE1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:48:35 | [Saint] | yay for hundreds of thousands of unpatched windows machines! |
| 11:49:35 | soap | I'm late. Does someone mind posting that tidbit to the forum thread so it doesn't get lost? And so people know what's going on if I unleased a torrent of new spam? |
| 11:49:57 | soap | if not I'll do so when I land |
| 11:49:57 | [7] | [Saint]: the reason why I didn't release an updated rockbox build on the emcore site yet is that those have broken USB :/ |
| 11:50:25 | [Saint] | ...they do? |
| 11:50:32 | [Saint] | it "just works" here. |
| 11:50:47 | [Saint] | should it not? |
| 11:53:39 | copper | rockbox often freezes up after unplugging the iPod from USB |
| 11:54:01 | copper | or crashes |
| 11:54:50 | [Saint] | that's odd, mine regularly has contact with various linux distros (narry a single windows box, though), and USB "just works" in git HEAD |
| 11:55:01 | [Saint] | I had no idea this was the case, apologies. |
| 11:55:17 | | Join draft [0] (~draft@a91-152-141-222.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:55:19 | draft | howdy |
| 11:55:38 | | Nick draft is now known as Guest92429 (~draft@a91-152-141-222.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:56:33 | Guest92429 | i have the latest rockbox on my iPod Classic 160GB... when i play S3M (it uses MikMod I think) the songs are played too fast. |
| 11:56:39 | copper | I have yet to determine if USB2 works better than USB3 |
| 11:56:52 | Guest92429 | like 2x to normal or something. has anyone noticed the same |
| 11:57:58 | Guest92429 | eg. from here ftp://ftp.modland.com/pub/modules/Screamtracker%203/Purple%20Motion/ |
| 11:58:10 | Guest92429 | my friend Jonne did those songs :) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:25 | gevaerts | copper: no rockbox player does USB3 |
| 12:01:05 | copper | gevaerts: I meant plugging it into a USB3 port |
| 12:01:28 | gevaerts | Yes, but that *shouldn't* make any difference |
| 12:01:33 | copper | shouldn't :) |
| 12:01:47 | [Saint] | that would essentially be exactly the same as plugging it into a USB 2.0 port. |
| 12:01:56 | [Saint] | s/essentially// |
| 12:02:04 | copper | ok |
| 12:02:22 | [Saint] | USB 3 just rolls back to 2.0 when a device can't do USB 3 |
| 12:02:52 | wodz | gevaerts: I guess you didn't have a chance to look into elfloader makefiles cleanup? |
| 12:02:52 | copper | no chance my hardware/software could make rockbox fail? |
| 12:03:14 | gevaerts | wodz: sorry, no. I forgot about it... :\ |
| 12:04:07 | wodz | gevaerts: you have a great chance still... and testing also |
| 12:04:49 | wodz | gevaerts: besides it would be nice if you could express your feeling about such feature on ML |
| 12:06:29 | * | gevaerts nods |
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| 12:23:40 | wodz | spam hit in General Discussion |
| 12:30:44 | user890104 | is there a way to make an official translation of the rockbox user manual, and add it to the repository? |
| 12:30:59 | user890104 | i only see an english one available |
| 12:33:47 | wodz | sure - translate and post to gerrit |
| 12:34:13 | wodz | the truth is that it will fast go out of sync though |
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| 12:40:36 | Guest92429 | can anyone help me out with the module player? it is playing the modules too fast. is this a known bug? or is there workaround that? |
| 12:48:13 | pamaury | Guest92429: I don't know, have a look in the bug tracker and if not file a bug report with the file if possible |
| 12:53:37 | wodz | pamaury: what are you working currently on? |
| 12:54:40 | pamaury | several things: remove the fuze+ audio pop, reworking the touchpad handling and from time to time hacking/reverse engineering/dismantling a sony nwz player |
| 12:55:00 | pamaury | do you need help for something ? |
| 12:55:41 | wodz | rk27xx usb as usual :-) Seriously, no I was just curious. |
| 12:56:23 | pamaury | I've not tried again rk27xx, still not able to get the setup interrupt. I'll go back to it at some point but I'm kind of bored :) |
| 12:57:08 | pamaury | my priority now is really to remove this fuze+ pop because lots of people complained about it |
| 12:57:45 | wodz | sure |
| 12:59:24 | pamaury | I hope the elfloaded will make it into the trunk soon :) |
| 12:59:47 | wodz | I doubt it considering lack of feedback |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:40 | wodz | I am kinda discouraged by the lack of interest |
| 13:03:33 | pamaury | yeah, it happened to me several times, that's not a nice situation when you have done some work and nobody seems to care |
| 13:08:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:14:58 | pixelma | user890104: not easily, as the manual is also source code (latex). This gives us the possibility to have the complete manual as one code and set the pieces together for the various players to match their hardware capabilities. I'm not sure how you could have a translation of that |
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| 13:39:32 | kugel | wodz: I'm very interested, but my lack of time prevents me to show it better |
| 13:42:30 | mortalis | how could I determine battery_level_dangerous? |
| 13:44:17 | wodz | mortalis: This should be more or less similar on all targets utilizing li-ion/lipo batteries |
| 13:45:48 | wodz | anyway it should be the level which allows clean shutdown still |
| 14:00 |
| 14:02:31 | mortalis | it's bit annoying when device doesn't save last track and position. There is no big difference between dangerous & shutoff for hm601 (3350 and 3300 respectively), so I thought maybe I could just make them equal. |
| 14:04:02 | mortalis | guess i need to test it. |
| 14:05:30 | wodz | this are kinda low |
| 14:06:01 | amiconn | wodz: Just to mention it - I *am* interested in the elf loader stuff |
| 14:06:44 | wodz | mortalis: dangerous level should be around 3500 - 3600 |
| 14:06:44 | amiconn | I would have expected something more lightweight than elf, but your binsize comparisons show that elf is apparently lightweight enough (which I didn't exect) |
| 14:07:17 | wodz | amiconn: elfloader on SH is about +1kB in core |
| 14:08:34 | wodz | I mean with patched 4.6.3 and -flto |
| 14:08:37 | wodz | and -Os |
| 14:10:25 | kugel | do you have un-cheated numbers? :) |
| 14:10:33 | kugel | e.g. with the same set of options |
| 14:11:17 | mortalis | wodz: 3500 - 3600 is about 20%-40%. And there are several targets with 3380 dangerous level (tcc77x, ipod 1g, 2g, ... ) |
| 14:13:24 | wodz | kugel: I comparision master - elf is with the same options. Different targets use different toolchains though |
| 14:14:25 | kugel | what is the +1kB compared against? I assumed git master (which doesnt use -flto or -Os) |
| 14:14:26 | wodz | mortalis: It is more of philosophic dispute now but you should not generally drain li battery so much - it is destructive to internal structure |
| 14:15:05 | kugel | amiconn: he tried something more lightweight before, it turned out too leightweight |
| 14:15:37 | kugel | it didn't support or dram/iram schemes and architecture details very well |
| 14:15:43 | kugel | s/or/our/ |
| 14:15:44 | Torne | amiconn: we don't have to handle the vast majority of the features of ELF. The size increase to the actual plugins on disk is considerable (though not that bad), but the code is not that complex |
| 14:15:54 | Torne | our loader is nowhere near as capable as ld.so :) |
| 14:16:21 | wodz | kugel: delta +1kB is the comparision of master and elf compiled with toolchain foreseen to be used if elfloader is merged |
| 14:16:43 | Torne | there are theoretical hacks we could do to reduce the plugin on-disk sizes more, but they require toolchain trickery |
| 14:16:53 | Torne | we can always do them later if we decide it's worthwhile, they wouldn't require any changes to the loader |
| 14:17:16 | kugel | but I maintain that if sh cannot use the new loader (i.e. it needs another set of ifdefs and maintanance of legacy code) it should be finally dropped |
| 14:18:09 | wodz | kugel: I didn't test it yet but with V18 you can build *any* target with either loader you like |
| 14:18:24 | wodz | I mean on SH |
| 14:18:42 | kugel | i don't care |
| 14:18:45 | | Quit derk0pf (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 14:18:59 | kugel | sh/hwcodec/charcell is a huge burden already without the loader |
| 14:19:26 | kugel | it just gets worse if we still include the legacy loader just for those |
| 14:20:21 | kugel | I don't actually want that we keep the old loader |
| 14:20:24 | wodz | Thats why its good that amiconn foresee new loader potentially for SH |
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| 14:21:03 | wodz | gtg |
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| 14:22:26 | mortalis | wodz (log): shutoff approximately same as in OF. And for now hm601 has about 8 hours runtime. If I set it to 3500-3600 it would be 5-6.5 hours. I don't think that users would be happy with that. |
| 14:24:34 | amiconn | kugel: git master *does* use -Os on SH for ages |
| 14:24:53 | kugel | oh |
| 14:27:02 | funman | btw we could have a build with debug symbols |
| 14:27:59 | funman | Panic: 0x12345678 -> arm-...-addr2line -e .rockbox/rocks/foo.rock 0x12345678 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:34:59 | wodz | funman: We could but address from panic will not be something you could pass to addr2line since elf rocks are 0 based |
| 15:35:40 | wodz | You will have to know base address where plugin was loaded |
| 15:35:49 | Torne | you could allow for that in the panic handler fairly easily |
| 15:36:04 | Torne | just look to see where the plugin was loaded and if it's inside that range |
| 15:36:11 | Torne | and if so subtract the base address |
| 15:36:17 | Torne | or just display the base address as well |
| 15:36:21 | Torne | maybe even filename? :) |
| 15:36:58 | Torne | i dunno how useful it would be unless we are also going to have symbols for core. |
| 15:41:00 | wodz | kugel: For SH I compared master compiled with -Os -flto with gcc-4.6.3 with elfloader build compiled with -Os -flto with gcc-4.6.3 - I don't feel I cheat here. |
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| 15:46:27 | [Saint] | wodz: fwiw, I don't think it is a lack of interest |
| 15:47:00 | [Saint] | I think you're just playing in vastly unfamiliar territory. |
| 15:48:34 | wodz | [Saint]: I am not asking how to implement something - I am asking IF we are interested to have it. Thats big difference and only 3 people answered |
| 15:51:35 | Torne | wodz: well, you also know that i think we should have it |
| 15:51:37 | Torne | :) |
| 15:52:11 | wodz | ok, thats 4 |
| 15:53:28 | [Saint] | if it encourages forking charcell and hwcodec, count me in too ;) |
| 15:54:28 | [Saint] | heh...but, seriously. I am interested, I just had the feeling you were looking for technical input, not "should we do this/do we want this?" |
| 15:55:49 | [Saint] | from what I am aware of with benefits vs. drawbacks, I wasn't even sure it was in any dispute. |
| 15:57:30 | wodz | you are exactly right - there was no any dispute :-) |
| 15:59:51 | wodz | ok I stop complaining |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:34 | [Saint] | In a way, no input is good input. |
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| 16:01:19 | [Saint] | If only simply for the fact that no input != negative input. |
| 16:01:55 | wodz | I don't feel thats the way to communicate within the project |
| 16:03:38 | [Saint] | well, no, of course not. but perhaps people feel that if they're not qualified to give technical input that "hey, good idea" will be of little use. |
| 16:04:20 | | Quit sentriz (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 16:04:36 | [Saint] | ...I know I do. Perhaps I shouldn't. |
| 16:05:13 | [Saint] | I haven't overlooked the work, it is just quite overwhelming for me and I'm sure a few others. |
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| 16:58:36 | pamaury | Torne: there ? |
| 16:59:46 | Torne | yeah |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:35 | pamaury | our arm-elf-eabi-as doesn't accept this instruction on arm1176zfs-s: LDRPC, [SP+8+var_8_11874],#8 It says something about ']' expected, any hint ? |
| 17:02:02 | Torne | you can't have an offset and a postincrement |
| 17:02:20 | pamaury | hum, this instruction is produced by ida-pro when disassembling :-/ |
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| 17:03:14 | Torne | ah. is var_8_11874 -8 by any chance? |
| 17:03:16 | Torne | i.e. zero |
| 17:03:20 | Torne | i.e. there is no offset |
| 17:03:22 | Torne | :) |
| 17:03:36 | Torne | it's just labelling it like that so it looks like a local variable ref |
| 17:03:43 | Torne | ? |
| 17:03:55 | pamaury | yes it's -89 |
| 17:03:57 | pamaury | -8 |
| 17:04:15 | pamaury | apparently the assembler is too stupid :( |
| 17:05:11 | pamaury | it also doesn't like the "ret" instruction, I thought it would have some kind of macros for that |
| 17:05:29 | Torne | those macros are in arm's realview toolchain, i think |
| 17:05:37 | Torne | if you switch IDA to gnu assembly it won't emit them |
| 17:05:45 | Torne | i never have any of those enabled in IDA |
| 17:06:00 | pamaury | it's already emiting for gny assembly ! |
| 17:06:30 | pamaury | I don't have a very recent version of ida though |
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| 17:08:03 | Torne | IDA's assembly is kinda shit anyway |
| 17:08:09 | Torne | and is not really meant to be assembleable |
| 17:08:11 | Torne | just readable |
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| 17:14:46 | pamaury | i'm kind of stuck, I don't what is wrong: my decrypting program or the key or my assumption about the underlying hardware encryption algorithm |
| 17:14:53 | pamaury | *don't know |
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| 18:48:16 | amayer | what does the red bar on this patch mean? |
| 18:48:18 | amayer | http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/344/ |
| 18:48:20 | amayer | it says something about rebasing. but i dont want to push another amend and lose the vote that is there. |
| 18:49:12 | Torne | it means the patch you based it on is out of date. |
| 18:49:52 | Torne | and therefore there's no guarantee that it can be submitted without conflicts |
| 18:49:56 | Torne | you should rebase it |
| 18:50:38 | Torne | well, at some point before it's submitted. |
| 18:50:39 | amayer | so "git rebase master"? |
| 18:50:41 | amayer | that patch is in another branch on my computer. |
| 18:51:06 | amayer | will you review it if i rebase it quick? |
| 18:51:07 | Torne | er, they apparently weren't in different branches, because one is based on the other |
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| 18:51:24 | amayer | really? |
| 18:51:26 | amayer | i pushed them from seperate branches |
| 18:51:34 | amayer | they are 2 branches on my computer |
| 18:51:45 | Torne | yes, but the branch with the second patch contains both patches |
| 18:52:00 | | Quit teachkindness20 (Client Quit) |
| 18:52:12 | Torne | you started the second branch from the first patch, not from master :) |
| 18:52:19 | amayer | really? |
| 18:52:21 | amayer | ohh... i made the first change in master and pushed that |
| 18:52:23 | amayer | then started a new branch |
| 18:52:35 | Torne | you need to tell it what you want the branch to be based on |
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| 18:52:43 | Torne | otherwise it uses whatever you have checked out right now |
| 18:52:57 | amayer | damn it... i will get a hold of this whole git thing. |
| 18:52:58 | Torne | to make a branch for an isolated patch from the current latest code you want: |
| 18:52:59 | amayer | i see what i did wrong now |
| 18:53:05 | Torne | git checkout -b some_name -t origin/master |
| 18:53:16 | amayer | ahh. that seems handy |
| 18:53:23 | Torne | to make a new branch called some_name that starts from whatever origin/master currently is (i.e. the latest upstream) and tracks it |
| 18:53:34 | Torne | then git status will tell you how many patches ahead/behind origin/master you are, also |
| 18:53:41 | Torne | so you can see how many local patches you have easilt |
| 18:53:53 | amayer | well i will rebase and resubmit |
| 18:54:14 | Torne | to make them independant now you need to do something more complicated |
| 18:54:24 | Torne | now that the other patch is part of that branch's history, rebasing will not remove it |
| 18:54:39 | Torne | rebase doesn't delete things |
| 18:54:46 | Torne | it just moves you to a later version of the branch you were based on |
| 18:54:53 | amayer | im not trying to fix it. i will just do it the right way in the future |
| 18:55:06 | Torne | it's not hard to fix, you just need a different command |
| 18:55:15 | amayer | if i rebase and resubmit will it fix the current problem? |
| 18:55:17 | Torne | git rebase −−onto=origin/master HEAD^ |
| 18:55:27 | Torne | will take just the top patch on the current branch and rebase it onto master |
| 18:55:31 | Torne | and throw any other changes away |
| 18:56:09 | Torne | amayer: it's not a problem as such |
| 18:56:12 | amayer | so i checkout NEW_FEATURE then run that ^ git code |
| 18:56:32 | amayer | and the patch will be independent of master |
| 18:56:51 | Torne | of your local master branch, yes |
| 18:56:58 | Torne | "master" is just a name |
| 18:57:05 | Torne | it's the same as any other local branch |
| 18:57:14 | Torne | origin/master is the actual code on the server |
| 18:57:23 | Torne | (as of the last time you ran a command that updated it) |
| 18:58:42 | Torne | we should maybe try and get the trivial rebase hook set up on our gerrit, which will let you carry forward approvals when you rebase if the diff is the same |
| 18:58:47 | Torne | but we don't habve that in place right now. |
| 18:59:09 | Torne | it doesn't matter a great deal; +1 is not sufficient to commit anyway and it's still visible in the change's history |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:25 | Torne | i'm just reviewing your other patch (the "get latest theme" one |
| 19:01:51 | amayer | Torne: the git code you posted didnt work. it output the "proper syntax" of how to use the git command |
| 19:03:06 | Torne | then read it :) |
| 19:03:50 | amayer | oh... just no "= |
| 19:04:08 | amayer | " inbetween −−onto and origin/master |
| 19:04:09 | Torne | i'm not quite entirely infallible :p |
| 19:05:18 | amayer | thanks for your help tho |
| 19:05:44 | Torne | i've committed that one |
| 19:05:52 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 19:06:00 | Torne | the other one i'll look at later if i have time, i need to leave shortly and i can't get familiar with that bit of code so fast :p |
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| 19:27:22 | amayer | Torne: its up when ever you get a chance |
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| 20:54:54 | simonnn | My clip+ froze and the screen went black; at some point I got an ata error -2, but then nothing again... fdisk gives a 4mb device (without partition table) |
| 20:55:03 | simonnn | and unbricking didn't seem to help either |
| 20:55:24 | simonnn | Does anyone have a hint what else I could try? |
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| 21:13:10 | funman | let it sit alone for a while and try again in a few weeks, -2 probably means flash storage is dead |
| 21:13:25 | funman | did you remove the sd card? |
| 21:14:22 | simonnn | I don't have one |
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| 21:14:43 | simonnn | ok I'll try to wait for a while then... thanks! |
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| 22:48:07 | yuriks | JdGordon: http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/290/ |
| 22:48:13 | yuriks | JdGordon: what do you think of it now? |
| 22:48:34 | yuriks | main problem I have is that missing characters on the main font still occupy it's cache space |
| 22:48:41 | yuriks | (they need to be loaded to know that they're missing) |
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| 22:53:13 | yuriks | it's also inneficient, lot's of duplicate cache searching in the name of code deduplication, but I'll work on that if you think the way it works now is good enough |
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| 23:26:52 | [Saint] | JdGordon: ping |
| 23:28:36 | [Saint] | +anyone else that feels affectionate towards, tied to, or qualified to talk of the subject of: cabbiev2 |
| 23:29:08 | [Saint] | pixelma: (perhaps? ^) ping |
| 23:30:35 | [Saint] | I have decided that I really hat the fact cabbie draws the backgrounds for icons in the backdrop itself, would anyone have anything against me changing this behaviour? |
| 23:30:44 | [Saint] | *really hat/really hate/ |
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| 23:31:56 | [Saint] | sorry, backgrounds for icons and progress/volume bars |
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| 23:34:25 | [Saint] | changing this behavior, with the addition of splitting each theme element out to its own viewport instead of defining everything at offsets reletive to the global fullscreen viewport (which I think is very ugly), would allow for: |
| 23:35:03 | [Saint] | 1 - make the tansition to themes that can resize dynamically easier, and |
| 23:35:39 | [Saint] | 2 - make it easier to implement an idea I'm playing with where theme elements can be toggled on/off by a "magic file" or <some_other_trigger> |
| 23:37:55 | [Saint] | Other people interested in the default theme and the theme engine in general should also loog at the logs for the conversation JdGordon and I had last night (my time) about splitting out metadata parsing (optionally) to a plain text file to allow the user to decide what gets displayed throughout their themes more easily. |
| 23:39:30 | [Saint] | see here: http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20121031#06:21:55 |
| 23:43:08 | AlexP | [Saint]: Sounds a good idea |
| 23:43:45 | [Saint] | which? (I'm assuming the latter, linked one) |
| 23:43:55 | AlexP | well, sort of both |
| 23:44:01 | AlexP | The former certainly |
| 23:44:03 | [Saint] | Ah, cool. :) |
| 23:44:17 | AlexP | The latter I haven't really thought about, but at first impression seems reasonable |
| 23:45:22 | [Saint] | what I'd like to happen is that we have one file for all the cabbies (the cabbie ports can display between 3 and 11 lines of metadata in theory) and we order them in such a way that the most needed data is presented first. |
| 23:46:29 | [Saint] | I could /probably/ make some magic to decide what to display based on how many lines can be displayed, but I really don't want the theme to be aware of how many lines of metadata it could/should display |
| 23:46:40 | AlexP | I'm not too keen on information overload, but I guess you'd sort that by adjusting the font/spacing |
| 23:46:50 | [Saint] | rather I would like it to just display as many full lines as the viewport calling it can muster. |
| 23:47:01 | [Saint] | AlexP: indeed, yes. |
| 23:47:45 | | Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 23:48:14 | [Saint] | I don't want to jam pack all possible metadata in there, but I want some form of ordered list so that the devices that *can* display some more info will, without affecting those that can't. |
| 23:48:39 | AlexP | Anything that works towards dynamic resizing is good IMO |
| 23:49:17 | AlexP | Bring on the 2560x1600 theme :) |
| 23:49:31 | [Saint] | is that the Nexus 7? |
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| 23:49:35 | AlexP | nexus 10 |
| 23:49:39 | [Saint] | aha. |
| 23:50:29 | [Saint] | actually, there's a change I have stashed around here that I would like to push to gerrit re: RaaA, need to find it. |
| 23:50:44 | AlexP | It'd be good to get stuff on there in general |
| 23:51:05 | AlexP | Then people can see it, I for one am rubbish at going to external sites |
| 23:51:08 | [Saint] | I got theme centering for hosted targets working. |
| 23:51:15 | AlexP | cool |
| 23:52:09 | AlexP | back in a mo, need to reboot server |
| 23:52:10 | [Saint] | so that instead of aligning to 0,0 if the theme is smaller than the device resolution, it attepts to center it (with a preference towards the top and left in the case where it can't be centered exactly) |
| 23:52:36 | [Saint] | need to find what brach it's stashed away in. |
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