#rockbox 2012-11-27

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#rockbox log for 2012-11-27

00:00:03	scorche\|sh	if you would liek to help test them, please edit your hosts file to point forums.rockbox.org at 198.58.104.90
00:00:14	Torne	xenyz: we generally do expect that people will retag their music correctly if they want to use any features that are dependent on tags, yes
00:00:23	gevaerts	scorche\|sh: do we have any sort of spam filtering in place yet?
00:00:28	pamaury	lorenzo92: I've committed my work; for now it cannot produce elf files but that will be easy step, I'll do it tomorrow. You can play with it if you want to try to understand the code if you want.
00:00:45	lorenzo92	thanks :)
00:00:56	scorche\|sh	gevaerts: nothing outside of what is built-in
00:01:11	pamaury	oops, I forgot files
00:01:14	scorche\|sh	gevaerts: there are new features where they also have to pass a captcha for their first 2 posts as well
00:01:34	scorche\|sh	gevaerts: verification questions too
00:02:01	scorche\|sh	if this captcha keeps being broken, i can move it up one more level (sometimes unreadable though) and i can also look at the recaptcha mod
00:02:23	scorche\|sh	unfortunately, the biggest casualty in the mod department seems to be the auto-merge double post mod
00:02:44	Torne	if we can make any impact ont he spam whatsoever i'll live without automerging double posts.
00:02:47	Torne	:)
00:02:59	scorche\|sh	well, we will see once i make it live
00:03:10	*	gevaerts nods
00:03:29	scorche\|sh	if there are no glaring issues, i will clone that instance over to the real server and get it live tonight
00:03:31		Quit bertrik (Read error: Operation timed out)
00:04:04	AlexP	Looks fine
00:04:12	AlexP	Everything seems to take a bit more space
00:04:21	AlexP	i.e. spacings are bigger or some such
00:04:32	scorche\|sh	yeah - that is a spacing or fonts thing
00:04:41	scorche\|sh	font is different
00:04:55	gevaerts	Can we (if the spam measures aren't enough) require moderator approval for the someone's first few posts?
00:05:39	scorche\|sh	gevaerts: i will check - from what i saw, there is moderation, but all i saw was that it was for certain boards - not for certain user groups
00:05:49		Quit lorenzo92 (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0/20121120062532])
00:05:49	scorche\|sh	i will double-check though - there ought to be something
00:06:24	gevaerts	The other option would be to require approval for new members I guess
00:06:33		Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
00:07:08	xenyz	Oh yeah my other question: is it possible to edit how the files show in the playlist? Right now it's showing the file name, but could I choose to just show the title?
00:07:20	gevaerts	We don't necessarily need any of them right away, I'd just like not to have to have the next defense ready yesterday...
00:07:32	*	AlexP sees he has an entirely useless admin section :)
00:07:37	AlexP	There is nothing in it :)
00:07:50	AlexP	xenyz: Unfortunately no
00:08:15	scorche\|sh	gevaerts: agreed
00:08:16	Torne	we don't load the metadata until the file is actually buffered
00:08:19	scorche\|sh	AlexP: erm - really?
00:08:27	Torne	so, we don't know what the tags are for arbitrary files int he playlist
00:08:28	xenyz	AlexP: ok thanks for the answer
00:08:34	AlexP	scorche\|sh: well no, there is some info and that :)
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00:08:46	scorche\|sh	i will have to have a look at permissions then - you were a global....erm
00:08:52	AlexP	scorche\|sh: It is working fine, there is just nothing for me to do there
00:09:00	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:09:03	lorenzo92	pamaury: I think that we could also port the hwemul to stmp36xx ...
00:09:08	AlexP	But I've just found the moderate button which does have the old options
00:09:12	AlexP	As far as I can see
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00:09:32	scorche\|sh	i guess i dont know exactly what you used to see
00:09:37	gevaerts	I think having playlist code look things up in the database (if available) would be reasonable (and better than parsing metadata every time...), but nobody has done that
00:10:07	xenyz	Well thank you guys for developing rockbox, my iPod died a few weeks ago and I dug out an old Sansa Fuse. So far it's been a nice change from the iPod-iTunes world with just a few minor issues :)
00:10:10	AlexP	scorche\|sh: I think it is fine, it is just it used to be under admin, but now I have an admin and a moderate button, and given I'm not an admin the admin section is a bit superfluous :)
00:10:29	AlexP	Well, apart from a quick link to the members list
00:10:52		Quit lorenzo92 (Client Quit)
00:10:57	xenyz	btw whats the expected life span of the sansa fuze? :)
00:11:33	AlexP	wow, Febs - that's a name from the past
00:11:35		Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving)
00:11:47	AlexP	and XavierGr
00:11:57	*	AlexP is viewing the member groups :)
00:13:43	AlexP	scorche\|sh: Is it possible to exclude posts in Spam from the Recent Posts?
00:14:11	gevaerts	Bah! "Time required between posts from the same IP". That would be ideal if we could have that only for new members...
00:15:51	gevaerts	Oh well, maybe there's a mod for that sort of thing
00:17:30	scorche\|sh	gevaerts: there still is a logical time for that for regular users
00:17:39	scorche\|sh	but yeah - there are some nifty settings
00:17:50		Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
00:18:01	scorche\|sh	AlexP: i dont think so, but i can check later - it is only there for those who can see that folder
00:18:22	AlexP	scorche\|sh: None of the lists seem to colour username by membergroup (except for the list of users online at the bottom)
00:18:29	AlexP	scorche\|sh: OK, no worries
00:18:34	*	gevaerts looks through mods
00:19:29	scorche\|sh	AlexP: yes - that was an old mod - MCLegendII or something like that - it hasnt been updated to 2.x
00:19:36	AlexP	OK, shame
00:19:56	scorche\|sh	even more important, the user badges by member group mod is gone
00:20:53	AlexP	oh, so the badges we have are relics from the old system?
00:21:49	scorche\|sh	i guess so? - i dont know - i didnt have time to look into it further
00:22:05	scorche\|sh	as far as i am concerned, the forums are ready to go back up now and we can look at refining it later
00:22:29	AlexP	It looks fine from my point of view
00:22:44	AlexP	You and gevaerts can plug away at it at your leisure :)
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01:02:21	boryf	hi guys
01:02:45		Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint)
01:04:02	boryf	when i wakeup my ipod, it shows "boot menu" where i can select rockbox, open console or shutdown ipod. How can I disable this menu and select rockbox directly?
01:04:19	AlexP	A classic I'm guessing?
01:04:39	boryf	yes, iPod classic 80GB
01:04:44	AlexP	That's emcore, which isn't ours
01:05:10	AlexP	[7] should know if it is possible, or the freemyipod people
01:05:24	AlexP	Or maybe another user here :)
01:05:32	copper	go in "Tools"
01:05:46	copper	select "boot rockbox directly" or whatever the option is called
01:06:29	copper	the Tools icon is somewhat hidden, you have to rotate the icons some
01:06:37	copper	(i.e. scroll)
01:06:46	copper	it's easy to miss
01:08:01	copper	Tools -> Settings -> Fastboot Action -> Rockbox
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01:09:50	copper	if you ever wanna go back to the emCORE menu, boot while holding Select and Menu together
01:09:55	copper	er no
01:09:58	copper	just Select
01:10:01	copper	er!
01:10:03	copper	just Menu
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01:11:44	boryf	but there is no "Tools" icon in main menu, there are only "Files", System", "Settings" etc, but no Tools
01:12:28	[7]	copper: actually any button will work :)
01:12:57	[7]	fastboot is performed if no button is being pressed while the boot menu gets executed
01:13:37	[7]	boryf: in the boot menu, not in rockbox
01:15:19	boryf	[7] i have it, thank you very much!
01:15:25	copper	I see
01:16:26	boryf	[copper] thank you too
01:16:36	boryf	bye guys! :)
01:16:51	copper	np
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03:26:02	Noman_	Hello, is anyone here?
03:26:29	Noman_	I need some help with my Sansa Clip+, I can't seem to boot into the original firmware.
03:34:18	[Saint]	The only thing that should prevent that is user error, or damaged hardware.
03:36:30	Noman_	Well, I've been pressing the vol down for the last year or so and that worked fine, but now it doesn't do that. What would be damaged that would cause it? The vol down still works on the player.
03:41:03	[Saint]	Wait...what?
03:41:12	[Saint]	You're using volume down....um, why?
03:41:53	[Saint]	http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-310003.1.6
03:42:03	[Saint]	You might want to try giving the manual a read.
03:42:10	[Saint]	Starting with the section linked above.
03:43:02	[Saint]	whoops: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch3.html#x5-280003.1.3
03:43:24	[Saint]	Noman_: ^
03:44:05	Noman_	I am retarded.
03:44:07	Noman_	Thanks.
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04:49:35	Mode	"#rockbox +o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
04:49:44	Topic	"Rockbox 3.12 released \| Please read before speaking: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines \| Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community \| This channel is logged at http://www.rockbox.org/irc" by scorche (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
04:49:49	Mode	"#rockbox -o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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05:15:48	resistance	Sorry to bardge in, but my sansa fuze's scrolling function is completely broken, is there any way of setting up rockbox to use the pause, fast forward, rewind, and menu keys as directional inputs?
05:17:05	[Saint]	You should be able to navigate the menu using these keys anyway.
05:17:16	[Saint]	regardless of scrolling being broken or not.
05:19:19	resistance	I can't it uses them as function keys, like home, or resume
05:20:44	[Saint]	Well, to answer your question: Yes. Yes you can.
05:21:08		Quit brkfstsqd (Remote host closed the connection)
05:21:55	[Saint]	It will involve you checking out a copy of the source code from git, setting up a development environment, compiling the arm-eabi toolchain; making the appropriate keymap changes; and then compiling your own binary.
05:21:58	xenyz	resistance: is the wheel 'stuck' ?
05:22:10	resistance	No it is not
05:22:19	resistance	Well, it was, but that wasn't the problem
05:22:24	resistance	I think I fixed it
05:22:35	xenyz	I just revived a fuze that had beer spilled on it; it had a stuck scroll wheel
05:22:49	resistance	It was the white sheets of paper that were jamming it
05:22:57	resistance	I cut those off
05:23:21	[Saint]	...white sheets of paper...?
05:23:44	resistance	Little white ends of cardboard inside the wheel
05:26:39	resistance	Does anyone know how the sansa fuze registers the wheel turning?
05:27:37	xenyz	I haven't opened mine up just yet
05:28:23	resistance	Well I'm assuming its these two little spikes of metal sticking out from the inside of the wheel... I have mine nice and fully dissassembled
05:29:25	xenyz	When i spin the wheel you can feel it catching about 12 times per revolution
05:29:40	xenyz	That's probably it
05:30:48	resistance	Well, thats due to sheets of paper on the inside that are prone to jamming the wheel
05:30:52	xenyz	i bet the wheel closes the connection on one side or the other to have it register 'clockwise' or 'counter-clockwise'
05:31:05	[Saint]	Unless I'm mistaken, that mechanism is solely to provide haptic feedback to the user.
05:31:20	[Saint]	ie. a "click" feeling.
05:31:23	resistance	Yes it is
05:31:39	xenyz	it's spring-loaded though, i can put the wheel 'in between' positions and it snaps back
05:32:23	xenyz	i wonder if the device is on that ifixit site
05:32:49	resistance	Its not jammed anymore, its just unresponisive
05:32:55	resistance	the buttons are fully functionall
05:33:00	resistance	Just the wheel
05:34:48	xenyz	Hmm I wish I was more familiar with it, sorry :/
05:35:24	resistance	Not a problem
05:35:28	xenyz	as far as i can tell, rockbox would be un-usable without the scroll wheel too
05:35:42	resistance	Hmm =\
05:35:48	resistance	That is unfortunate
05:36:07	resistance	Also, does anyone know of where I can just get a replacement?
05:36:14	xenyz	if you did manage to re-map those buttons, you'd lose the current functionality as well. unless you designed something like a super-long-press to do the usual long-press
05:36:15	resistance	I haven't found any
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05:36:53	xenyz	Replacement scroll wheel? or replacement device? :)
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05:37:05	resistance	Replacement scroll wheel
05:37:14	resistance	=\ The device is a bit outside of my price range
05:37:15	xenyz	I'd check on eBay I suppose
05:38:18	resistance	=\ No dice
05:39:00	xenyz	Hrm have you had it less than a year? I could be a warranty claim, perhaps
05:39:20	xenyz	Or maybe contact SanDisk directly, some companies are nice and swap out defective units even after the warranty period
05:39:56	xenyz	i.e. ask them about a replacement scroll wheel, get a new device instead ;)
05:40:13	resistance	Yea, this one was a used unit baught on newegg
05:40:26	resistance	But I might try conntacting them
05:40:34	xenyz	Couldn't hurt to try
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05:41:17	resistance	Yea, by contact do you mean call, or do they have an irc up?
05:41:31	xenyz	Haha
05:41:59	resistance	o.o What?
05:42:02	xenyz	I'd find an email address on their corporate site and send them a nice letter
05:42:09	resistance	Ah I see
05:42:34	xenyz	Sorry I thought it was kind of funny the second way you'd think to contact them was irc :)
05:42:39	resistance	I know some places have irc's and most just use telephones
05:42:51	resistance	Acer has an Irc =P
05:43:09	xenyz	Seems kind of the wrong tool for the job though
05:43:25	xenyz	I could be wrong, though
05:43:32	resistance	Huh
05:43:48	resistance	Well, not quite an Irc
05:43:51	xenyz	Public chat to get customer service? I wouldn't think it works
05:43:57	resistance	Actually not an irc at all =o
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05:44:36	resistance	It connects you straight to a costumer service adgent
05:44:55	xenyz	Ahh like live chat on their web site..
05:45:23	xenyz	Anyway shoot them an email, you never know
05:45:50	xenyz	The problem with these lower-priced electronics is, it's always cheaper to replace them than to repair them
05:47:02	resistance	Yea, if you know someplace that sells them for less than fifte dollars, then I would go for it
05:47:49	xenyz	btw did you find the headphone connection on the Fuze a bit loose?
05:48:41	xenyz	I'm wondering if it was the beer spill that's caused it, but it seems to cut out if i move the headphone jack even a small amount
05:48:55	xenyz	It doesn't hold it very well, but it could be the design
05:50:32	xenyz	Anyway, still an impressive little music player. I just started using it a few days ago when my iPod gave up
05:51:57	resistance	Yea, my headphone jack is fine :O
05:57:26	xenyz	Ah well, perhaps it's because I have an L-shaped headphone jack, it might tug on it sideways a bit more
06:00
06:00:12	xenyz	vs the iPod I can't tell but it seems to have about the same audio quality
06:01:29	xenyz	I wish I could remember how much I bought this thing for. It was supposed to be a gift for my brother last xmas, but someone gave him an iPod as well
06:02:04	xenyz	I remember thinking it was a deal, it must have been around CAD$50 or something...
06:02:22	xenyz	But looking up the current prices it looks like it's somewhere around $80-100 :/
06:03:12	resistance	Yea =\ and they're on sale
06:03:26	xenyz	Did the price go up because of rockbox? :)
06:04:13	resistance	=P That would be nice
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06:10:25	scorche	As a point of note regarding the forums - there are still a number of things i need to do to speed them up (caching and such), so load on the server is higher than typical right now
06:22:00		Quit scorche\|sh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
06:23:16	scorche	....and of course after i say that, they seem to go down
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06:43:16	*	[Saint] wants to talk to a costumer service agent.
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06:53:47	xenyz	If your wardrobe is malfuctioning, you need to speak to a costumer service agent
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08:02:44	scorche	ok - forums database is restored....
08:03:05	scorche	apparently these tables dont like being optimised
08:03:36	scorche	i can try to optimise again at a later time when i have backups ready...
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12:32:57	copper	there's a brightness parameter missing in Rockbox for the Clip+
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12:33:13	copper	one can adjust brightness in the OF but not in Rockbox
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16:05:41	pamaury	lorenzo92: I tried to run elftosb.exe on rockbox.elf and it crashes :-/ Proprietary tools...
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16:20:04	lorenzo92	pamaury: :S
16:25:41	pamaury	that's not a real problem but I wanted to use that tool to generate all types of commands, in particular fill commands but as soon as I ask the tool to load a elf file, it's not working
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17:08:05	lorenzo92	pamaury: well, I can't help much :) but may be possible some issues with environment (e.g. type of a file)
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17:08:33	pamaury	anyway I don't really need to run this tool but I find it odd
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17:42:42	lorenzo92	indeed
17:43:17	lorenzo92	but you tried on what executable? "rockbox.elf"? is it something compiled for anohter cpu?
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17:59:29	saratoga	anyone feel like updating the project news to say that we have new forums software?
17:59:59	lorenzo92	good to know :D
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18:20:06	amayer_	what is the anti-spam we use on the forums again?
18:20:08	amayer_	and are we using the same one?
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18:34:40	apo_	Hi
18:35:09	apo_	Amazon currently has a deal for a Sansa Clip Zip, for the same price as the Clip+
18:35:18	apo_	Is "Not all plugins have been updated for the Zip's screen size" the only issue of the clip zip port?
18:35:28	apo_	apart from the manual thing, that is
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19:08:34	gevaerts	apo_: details like that, yes. Also the USB issue for some people (which also happens on clipv2, clip+, and fuzev2)
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19:12:04	apo_	gevaerts: Thanks
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19:44:47	mercutio22	been a long time. Do I still have to boot into iplayer in order to transfer music files to sansa clip+ or does rockbox can do it now?
19:45:17	mercutio22	Oh yeah it can!
19:45:23	mercutio22	=]]]]]]]
19:45:56	mercutio22	one more satisfied customer
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19:55:12	lorenzo92	pamaury: tell me if I'm wrong, with your tool I can now get the elf out of .sb and then treat it with IDA or so?
19:55:25	lorenzo92	would be nice to know something about the updater.sb
19:56:15	pamaury	not yet, you can dump the structure on stdout but it doesn't produce any elf file yet. I'm working on it
19:56:35	pamaury	by the way, I may have found a yp-z5 for 10€
19:58:36	lorenzo92	good to know :)
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20:03:09	pamaury	it's amazing that the service manual has so much information about the player like the schematics
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20:09:02	lorenzo92	yeah ;)
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20:09:37	lorenzo92	seems that they use pretty much the standard pins to do the job (e.g. touchpad)
20:09:54	lorenzo92	as I quickly saw in the SDK
20:19:10	bertrik	copper: I think clip+ uses the contrast setting, while the clip zip uses the brightness setting
20:19:46	bertrik	brightness is usually done with the backlight, but OLEDs don't have a backlight :)
20:20:44	bertrik	we might need to mutex the display command stuff, to avoid conflict between backlight brightness setting code and normal display access
20:23:12		Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (amiconn@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
20:24:14	bertrik	as long as we don't use any kernel stuff that causes a thread switch in the display driver, it'll probably be ok to not have a mutex for the display functions
20:39:13	amayer_	i never thought i would cry while looking at source code... but this theme site makes me cringe
20:40:35	amayer_	i updated the database class to use prepared statements.
20:40:39	AlexP	It isn't terribly polite to say that, keep in mind that people probably here wrote it
20:41:02	amayer_	is sorry if he offended anyone
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20:41:26	AlexP	There are better ways of phrasing these things
20:42:00	amayer_	but there are functions in the code that look like:
20:42:02	amayer_	function blah($var, $var){
20:42:04	amayer_	return array();
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20:42:06	amayer_	}
20:42:10	amayer_	...literally
20:42:17	AlexP	It means nothing to me, and that isn't the point
20:42:42	AlexP	I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'm just saying you should try to be tactful
20:43:01	amayer_	its a function that takes 2 parameters and returns an empty array no matter what
20:43:12	AlexP	Again, not the point I was making
20:43:25	amayer_	AlexP: I understand what your saying
20:50:29	pamaury	lorenzo92: I found why the tool crashes, it doesn't like the .ARM.attributes section, removing it solves the problem
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20:57:49	scorche`	amayer_: we needed a themesite quite badly - i am very grateful to those who stepped up to make it no matter how they code - it works
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21:13:20	amayer_	I didnt mean to come across as rude. and like I said I didnt mean to offend anyone.
21:13:23	amayer_	Reading it again now I can see how it seemed very rude, especially to the person(s) who took time to make the theme site in the first place.
21:13:25	amayer_	Ive writen more then my fair share of bad code.
21:13:27	amayer_	It was ment more as a joke. (there is old code lingering around, unused funtions, stuff like that) this comes with any project that more then 1 person works on.
21:13:29	amayer_	scorche`: I am very grateful for the people who stepped up and made it too. having interchangeable themes was one of the reasons I even put rockbox on my iPod classic even tho it was labled "unusable"(which i now know doesnt mean it doesnt work).
21:13:33	amayer_	to anyone who was offended or worked on the theme site personally: I am sorry
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21:19:49	lorenzo92	pamaury: I possibly have some clues about the Z5Update...
21:21:04	lorenzo92	pamaury: XOR also in there (I guessed :) )
21:21:16	lorenzo92	need to try to find all the keys
21:21:21	lorenzo92	0xa3, 0xb8, 0xf9, .... :)
21:22:21	lorenzo92	pamaury: casually, the first 2 bytes are spread all over the file, while also the 3 bytes are somewhere in the file, moreover in YP-R0's firmware format casually 0xA3 is also the first key LoL
21:23:50	copper	bertrik: I see, thanks
21:24:33	lorenzo92	* the previous sentence makes sense assuming 0 bytes in original format (I've exploited the fact that first bytes in sb files are zero)
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21:29:29	lorenzo92	pamaury: well I'm not very sure lol bah need to have the real device xD
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