#rockbox 2012-12-12

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#rockbox log for 2012-12-12

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01:49:10	himay333	hello, anyone on that can help me with a bricked sansa clip+?
01:51:05	[Saint]	Firstly, lets start with why you believe it to be bricked.
01:51:42	himay333	ok - I used it with rockbox for a week or 2 and it was working great
01:51:56	himay333	then one day I went to turn it on and it just wouldn't
01:52:14	himay333	I've tried to do the manual reset
01:52:32	himay333	held the button down for 30 secs to multiple minutes
01:52:47	[Saint]	What, if anything, happens when you attempt to mount the device?
01:53:16	himay333	in windows it shows as a unformatted usb drive
01:53:24	himay333	with 0mbs
01:53:28	[Saint]	Of what capacity?
01:53:32	[Saint]	Oh...
01:54:01	himay333	double checking that
01:54:25	himay333	yes 0 bytes
01:54:41	[Saint]	The first thing to do, is verify that the player isn't just hanging. There's only really one way to do this, the battery either needs to be totally flat, or not present.
01:55:02	[Saint]	That's the only way you can guarantee it is actually "off", and not stuck in a loop.
01:55:22	himay333	ok
01:55:50	[Saint]	So the options are either: "Put it on a shelf for a few days and forget about it, and then attempt to charge the device." or "Open it and clip/desolder a battery lead"
01:56:07	[Saint]	The former is recommended :)
01:56:12	himay333	so since I don't have a soldering iron at the moment... shelf it
01:57:03	himay333	I'm thinking about updating to a clipzip since they go on sale this time of year...
01:57:22	himay333	how stable is the clipzip release if you know?
01:58:34	[Saint]	If you have some reasonably sensitive headphones/IEMs, you can try plugging the headphones in every now and then and listen for a pop/scratch/hiss. If there is one, the battery still has power, ...but this is hardly a scientific test. :)
01:59:01	[Saint]	The ClipZip is quite usable, but it still has a reasonable way to go yet.
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02:00
02:00:42	himay333	i guess for now i'll just stick with my + and hope for the best
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02:02:07	himay333	i had it get stuck once before while mounting, but overall had no issues... i really like the interface and i love that it allows me to scrobble
02:03:04	himay333	just hope it doesn't crash on me again and I can continue using it
02:03:46	himay333	thanks for the help - hopefully i won't have to come back for this issue. :)
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02:04:08	[Saint]	Not a problem. Hope I don't see you again. :P
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04:38:34	JdGordon	[Saint]: piiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing
04:39:36	dongs	tried trigger recording... it made a new file for each one..
04:39:41	dongs	and fucked up start triggers..
04:39:47	dongs	what hte fuck, and why are docs so shit on this stuff
04:40:40	dongs	its hilarious how half hte page of trigger recording talks about copying CDs
04:40:42	dongs	isnt that illegal?
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04:42:12	dongs	i surely would expect a reputable opensource project to not promote copyright infringement
04:44:03	[Saint]	Its foolish to assume the material being copied isn't free.
04:44:13	dongs	bwahah, right
04:44:14	[Saint]	Also, you're on the fine line of trolling...so, please, don't.
04:44:26	dongs	[Saint]: please point me to some free CDs.
04:44:39	dongs	[Saint]: im trying to use a feature thats been in rockbox apparently since 2008
04:44:43	dongs	and its barely fucking usable
04:44:53	dongs	and when I brought this up last time, all i heard was "here's the sores, go fix it"
04:45:04	dongs	http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TriggerManual
04:45:06	dongs	have a look through this
04:45:22	dongs	i cant even make sense of half the shit, probably wrwitten by developers for developers
04:45:26	dongs	and half the stuff isnt even in the menus
04:45:35	dongs	so its either been removed or too new or wahtever, but the docs dont match waht the menus say
04:45:37	[Saint]	Its a wiki.
04:45:56	JdGordon	[Saint]: have you played with 9seg yet? fix cabbie already!
04:46:23	dongs	stop hold: nowhere to be found in menus.
04:46:25	dongs	is this been removed?
04:47:06	[Saint]	The wiki isn't the place one should be looking for this information. I'm not surprised if it is incomplete or out of date.
04:47:07	dongs	also I would have expected "pause" trigger to you know.. pause recording.. instead of making a new file on each trigger
04:47:15	dongs	huh really then where should I look for it?
04:47:17	[Saint]	Refer to the manual, always.
04:47:25	dongs	since thats first google hit for ""rockbox trigger recording"
04:47:42	soap	why google when there is a manual with a table of contents?
04:48:01	dongs	http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclipplus/rockbox-buildch10.html#x13-16400010.11
04:48:04	[Saint]	....everyone knows the first hit on Google is always right. Duh. :P
04:48:05	dongs	oh great
04:48:07	dongs	Trigtype.
04:48:08	dongs	Add description of Trigtype Options: Stop, Pause, New File.
04:49:05	dongs	I have selected pause, and i guess its doing new file.
04:49:10	dongs	but hard to tell, cuz there's no docs.
04:49:46	dongs	[Saint]: so now what.
04:49:46	soap	How hard is it to tell if a new file is created?
04:50:05	dongs	soap: i dunno, i recorded and it ended up with like ~40 new R_*** files.
04:50:22	soap	In the ten minutes you've been bitching you could have run a few controlled tests.
04:50:51	dongs	soap, thats not waht opensauce is about though. i'm sure since 2008 someone have noticed that shit is broken
04:51:00	dongs	like the fact that there's no dB value preview in recording dialog
04:51:10	dongs	so somehow youre expected to just GUESS what the start/stop trigger values in dB are.
04:51:29	dongs	as a user and not some pro-audio fgt I have NO idea what -45dB is vs -35dB
04:51:45	[Saint]	Its a community project, you're more than welcome to submit correction to the docs.
04:51:45	soap	dongs, what are your peak meter settings?
04:51:50	soap	dB or linear?
04:51:50	dongs	soap: default
04:52:01	soap	which is?
04:52:02	[Saint]	Otherwise, you're entitled to a full refund of the purchase price if you're not satisfied.
04:52:13	dongs	soap: i have no idea. default. I installed, and only changed like 2 settings for my own use.
04:52:27	dongs	and I didnt screw with peak meter settings, so whatever itis, its that.
04:52:28	dongs	i presume db.
04:52:58	soap	if you read the manual section, which I just did in 60 seconds, you'd see the answer to that question lies in your peak meter settings.
04:53:30	dongs	(i.e. When the peak meter displays dB you can adjust the level in dB and when the peak meter is set to linear the threshold is displayed as percentage.)
04:53:34	dongs	????
04:53:36	dongs	how does this help me
04:53:53	dongs	there's no way to find out the current value of peak meter in dB.
04:53:57	dongs	because its not shown on screen.
04:54:39	soap	so you don't know the difference between -45 and -35db, what would you rather see to express the recording level?
04:55:22	dongs	soap: um, i dont NEED to know the difference between whatever dB. if I was able to SEE teh current recording LEVEL as a NUMBER (which is what the trigger menu wants), then I wouldn't care waht units it was in. it could be a number from 0 to 4096 for all I care as long as i can SEE that number.
04:55:42	dongs	and the same 0..4096 would be used to set trigger levels.
04:55:52	dongs	right now its some magic number that has no relevance to anything displayed on recording screen.
04:56:38	soap	I'm assuming it isn't displayed on the Clip screen because there isn't room.
04:57:31	dongs	shrug. i dont have any other rockbox device to compare with.
04:57:56	dongs	if there's not enough space on screen to display this kind of important info, dont bother implementing rec function at all
04:58:05	dongs	or disable triggger recording, as it cant be configured properly.
04:58:45	soap	again, a little trial and error would calibrate that peak screen for you.
05:00
05:00:37	soap	though, again in a 20th of the time you've spent bitching I've educated myself on this, you can set not only the scale but the minumum and maximum of the scale.
05:00:44	soap	if you can't figure out the rest...
05:00:49	dongs	uh...........
05:00:58	dongs	dude, what units is min/max scale again/
05:01:07	dongs	some numbers that dont mean shit, right?
05:01:14	dongs	cuz I can't see waht the current numbers are
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05:01:20	soap	Under recording settings: peak meter
05:01:26	dongs	yes?
05:01:54	soap	if you don't know how a peak meter works you have no business trying to use triggered recording.
05:02:08	soap	It's not Rockbox manual territory to teach recording.
05:02:24	soap	It's Rockbox manual territory to teach using Rockbox.
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05:13:25	soap	let me rephrase that, dongs, if you don't yet understand how a peak meter works you are not ready for triggered recording.
05:14:05	soap	If you don't yet understand what the significance of the negative dB numbers are you're not yet ready for recording with manual control of gain.
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05:14:33	dongs	soap, you dont get it at all
05:14:41	dongs	i dont need to know what a peak meter is or what dB is and whether its positive or negative
05:14:45	dongs	if a trigger asks for a number X
05:14:54	dongs	i must haev way to VIEW this said number X on the recording display.
05:14:56	dongs	this is not the case.
05:15:09	soap	As I said, you sure can get that number from the recording display.
05:15:15	dongs	nope, I cant.
05:15:23	dongs	if I could, I wouldnt be bitching here.
05:15:24	soap	I can on my clip right now.
05:15:41	dongs	do tell.
05:15:44	soap	I set the scale to log (dB) and the low end of the scale to -65 and the high end to -35.
05:15:56	dongs	.. and?
05:16:07	soap	hmm, peak meter is in the middle of the scale, therefore I know it's -50ish
05:16:18	soap	there are even tick marks if I want to count.
05:16:43	dongs	why evne bother with entering numbers then?
05:16:48	dongs	"oh, start recording when peak meter is about half"
05:16:51	dongs	sorry dude, taht doesnt work.
05:16:53	soap	to set the limits?
05:17:12	soap	There isn't room on the screen for full bloody labels.
05:17:25	dongs	im sure tehres space to write a dB value
05:17:30	soap	A?
05:17:52	dongs	yep. since trigger seems to take some average one.
05:17:54	soap	I don't need A value. I know two values (the ends of the scale) AND I have intermediate points.
05:18:05	soap	no, trigger takes the one(s) I set.
05:18:53	soap	Setting triggers for live recordings isn't brain surgery. You don't need to know numbers +-1dB
05:19:28	soap	you'll never be in an environment that well controlled. You set your trigger thresholds based on some pretty wide spans.
05:20:03	dongs	you're wrong again.
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05:20:15	dongs	silence threshold on the stuff i want to record is pretty close to non-silence.
05:20:16	soap	I'm wrong?
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05:20:30	soap	then you're likely using the wrong tool.
05:21:23	soap	If you need super precise silence trimming w/o loss of content the answer is to trim in post.
05:22:17	dongs	man, so much expert advice on everything except problem at hand.
05:22:24	dongs	ok, how about 'pause' trigger type making new files?
05:22:29	dongs	got a explasnation for that one?
05:22:47	soap	I've already told you how to precisely determine the dB value of this consistent silence floor you have.
05:23:12	soap	are you looking to fight?
05:23:36	soap	if not let's deal with one subject at a time. If so how about leaving?
05:23:51	dongs	you havent. right now the way i have is take the random numbers, adjsut them +- a couple ticks, then go back to recording screen, notice the stop/start trigger ticks and if they're above/below noise i haveto go back to settings, change +- again, etc.
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05:24:21	dongs	this could have been a one-step operation if the screen simply displayed the nubmer in peak meter.
05:24:50	dongs	even faster, if the recording SETTINGS screen actually displayed preview of audio form mic/whatever.
05:25:01	dongs	so i wouldnt have to switch between recording and settings.
05:25:23	soap	you keep saying "random numbers". What numbers are random?
05:25:38	dongs	trigger start/stop values.
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05:25:50	dongs	some negative numbers without any meaning in context unless you're some audiopro.
05:25:50	soap	what's random about them?
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05:26:24	soap	again, if you don't understand that 0 is full signal and all other signals are below the maximum the recorder can do...
05:26:45	dongs	i dont need to know this
05:26:54	soap	one does to use triggers properly.
05:27:05	soap	they can't exactly be colourcoded.
05:27:11	dongs	if the input is valued as a number for setting the trigger, there has to be a way to see this number.
05:27:36	dongs	guesing it, counting ticks on adisplay, constantly switching between several levels of menus - this is not a solution
05:27:36	soap	I've told you three times how to determine this number.
05:27:47	dongs	not for something that's been available as a feature since 2008 at least.
05:27:53	dongs	i want a precise number.
05:27:53	soap	It is a solution. It is not one you like.
05:27:57	dongs	-35. -36. whatever.
05:28:05	dongs	not some guesstimate based on counting pixels on a 0.96" display.
05:28:07	soap	There is no precise number, as the real world isn't that precise.
05:28:25	dongs	it is in the application I need this for.
05:29:04	soap	I promise you right not, unless you're recording a pure tone you will never encounter a background level which (as constant as it may sound) is constant to within anything approaching as precise as that.
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05:29:29	soap	what is the application you need this for?
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05:30:06	[Saint]	arguing.
05:30:13	soap	apparently.
05:31:27	dongs	arent you all guys super smart to label people so quickly.
05:31:33	soap	what is the application you need this for?
05:32:41	soap	I've been entertaining you for 30+ minutes and you've been arguing for almost an hour, yet you still haven't explained what it is you're doing where you need dB-precise triggers.
05:33:01	dongs	soap, irrelevant. it could be anything where I need triggered recording with mostly silence and only some points of interest that need to be triggered.
05:33:18	soap	dongs, 5 or even 10dB is precise enough for that.
05:33:35	soap	not irrelevant as you are saying the current system sucks as you can't (easily) determine 1dB
05:34:12	soap	20 dB might even be precise enough for that.
05:34:48	dongs	my current settings were -35 .. -45 and it failed miserably in tons of cases.
05:34:53	dongs	not to mention, making a shitton of split files
05:35:05	soap	"failed" tells me nothing.
05:35:24	dongs	it did not trigger at the condition
05:35:30	soap	did it fail to trigger? Did it trigger too often? What's the background level? What's the event level?
05:35:43	dongs	i dont know, because I cant see the fucking level numbers!
05:35:54	dongs	thats what ive been bitching about here for the last fuck knows how many minutes
05:36:27	soap	I long ago explained how to easy eyeball them withing reason.
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05:37:54	soap	And recently explained that even 10dB is likely plenty of resolution, so you have plenty of ability to eyeball that. Set your peak meter from -96 to 0 to get full scale and adjust your gain (visible while the peak menus are visible) to get your desired sound to record up somewhere around 75% of full scale.
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05:38:10	soap	then tell me where background noise levels are.
05:38:29	soap	I'm going to smoke. If you can't do that for me we are done.
05:42:39	soap	(quick cig)
05:45:49	soap	good night
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14:08:42	webpunk	i think my sansa clip is bricked .
14:08:55	webpunk	rockboxed it yesterday ..
14:09:12	webpunk	and t said usb bootlog mode
14:09:17	webpunk	any idea guys ?
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22:31:32	wodz	pamaury: ping
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22:48:12	lorenzo92	pamaury: was wondering if you know the firmare extractor of stmp35xx series...
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22:57:50	pamaury	lorenzo92: ping
22:58:03	lorenzo92	pamaury: pong
22:58:13	pamaury	my reverse engineering effort suggest that the .sb file is written as is on the bulk endpoint of the stmp36xx in recovery mode
22:58:47		Join LordRD [0] (~LordRD@188.251.59.115)
22:58:50	lorenzo92	uhm...bulk endpoint means something like simple usb transfer?
22:59:02	pamaury	yes
22:59:39	lorenzo92	was thinking something like that, so probably: send data -> finish -> run?
22:59:49	pamaury	the usb trace you posted on pastebin is pretty much useless in this state but if you can save the save trace in the pcap format and send it to me I can check this theory
23:00
23:00:06	lorenzo92	okay I try to convert it using wireshark
23:02:12	lorenzo92	pamaury: I have some formats like "modified tcpdump - libpcap"
23:03:40	pamaury	lorenzo92: if you have "wireshark/libtcpdump/... pcap" that's fine
23:04:22	lorenzo92	pamaury: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f4k09z93um2ut1/uploadBootloaderUSBsniffing
23:04:53	lorenzo92	I just remind you that first ~67 frames aren't related to the updater
23:04:59	lorenzo92	but my mouse ^^
23:05:49	pamaury	lorenzo92: it's empty !
23:05:58	lorenzo92	!
23:06:11	lorenzo92	I'll check
23:07:37	lorenzo92	pamaury: damn it was owned by root ^^ https://www.dropbox.com/s/9f4k09z93um2ut1/uploadBootloaderUSBsniffing
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23:09:26	LordRD	hello
23:09:40	lorenzo92	hi :)
23:09:52	LordRD	I need help unbricking (out trying to) my clip+
23:09:57	LordRD	anyone who can help me?
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23:13:20	lorenzo92	I don't have any experience on this player, but just write down your problem without asking if you can, sure you can ... then if someone has knowledge will help you
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23:13:40	LordRD	humm
23:13:46	LordRD	ok thanks
23:14:10	LordRD	basicly, I'm following this guide http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick
23:15:14	pamaury	bertrik: funman: ping for clip+ unbricking
23:15:35	LordRD	first problem is, in the image that has the recovery pins for my player, it got two circles. On the blue one my player has an resistor, am I supposed to do something to it?
23:15:53		Quit the-kyle (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
23:16:47	LordRD	second problem, since I'm running windows, where am I supposed to input those commands? In the MS-DOS they're not recognized
23:17:11	AlexP	linux
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23:17:42	LordRD	any distro will work?
23:17:54	AlexP	yep
23:18:24	LordRD	no way to get them working on windows?
23:18:27	gevaerts	LordRD: is there any particular reason you're trying to use colour?
23:18:27	AlexP	what did you do to the clip to lead you to follow that guide?
23:18:39	AlexP	LordRD: no, they are linux programs
23:19:28	LordRD	what do you mean? what I've I done before trying this or what have caused the problem?
23:19:52	AlexP	both
23:20:08	LordRD	well
23:20:31	LordRD	after 1 year of use the jack got loose, so I dissassembled the player
23:20:36	LordRD	and soldered the jack in place
23:20:39	AlexP	LordRD: You seem to be using colour codes to make your text black, this means people who use white on black screens can't see what you are typing
23:20:45	AlexP	It would be sensible not to do this
23:21:08	LordRD	aren't you typing in black too?
23:21:13	AlexP	er, no
23:21:19	AlexP	I'm not applying any colour code
23:21:35	AlexP	But you have your IRC client set to make text black on a whote background
23:21:39		Quit the-kyle (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
23:21:46	LordRD	sorry
23:21:49	AlexP	You are forcing a black font, which breaks things
23:21:53	LordRD	I'm using a web IRC
23:22:03	LordRD	any better?
23:22:05	AlexP	heh, OK - that is breaking things :)
23:22:24	AlexP	LordRD: Anyway, carry on
23:22:37	Mode	"#rockbox +o scorche\|sh" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:22:44	LordRD	So, I soldered the jack in place.
23:23:02	LordRD	After assembeling the player, I tested it and everything was working fine
23:23:15	Mode	"#rockbox +c " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:23:26	Mode	"#rockbox -o scorche" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:23:30	Mode	"#rockbox -o scorche\|sh" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:23:31	LordRD	but after some minutes playing music (10/20 not sure), the player started randomly freezing, until it just black out
23:24:13	LordRD	I've tried soft reset, I've desoldered the battery, and it still doesn't work
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23:24:41	LordRD	when I connect it to the PC, it just shows an unknown storaged device, and asks me to format it
23:24:53	LordRD	(which fail if I try it)
23:24:57	saratoga	so you soldered something to your player and it stopped working?
23:24:58	AlexP	OK, thanks
23:25:13	LordRD	I soldered the jack in place
23:25:33	LordRD	it worked fine for 10-20 min and then just blacked out
23:25:33	saratoga	well if that made it stop working it sounds like you maybe did more then just that
23:26:11	LordRD	it really sound like that
23:26:17	LordRD	but that's all I've done
23:26:37		Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...)
23:26:42	LordRD	I've already checked for burned-out resistors but everything looks fine
23:28:13	LordRD	btw, I only had to resolder the bottom one, ground I guess
23:29:24	lorenzo92	pamaury: I may have foound something more: stmp36xx_lib.o
23:29:36	lorenzo92	under usb gadgets of the rootfs
23:29:38	SuperBrainAK	thats exactly what i did and my clip+ dies also
23:30:40	LordRD	SuperBrainAK, you had the same problem?
23:30:52	SuperBrainAK	yes a while ago
23:31:02		Quit ender (Quit: Computers are terrific - they beget terror.)
23:31:04	LordRD	the solution was a new one I guess
23:31:06	LordRD	right?
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23:32:08	SuperBrainAK	what solution? nobody had one for me :/
23:32:45	LordRD	like I said, the solution was to buy a new one ^^
23:33:11	LordRD	tried unbricking it?
23:33:49	SuperBrainAK	oh well thats a work in progress and i can wait cuz im using my ipod 2ndGen 2GB
23:34:07	SuperBrainAK	no i havent
23:35:07	SuperBrainAK	it has booted up a few times but it doesnt stay working long then it freezes
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