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| 02:12:40 | saratoga | with a fresh source checkout i can't build the codec lib test program on ubuntu |
| 02:13:44 | saratoga | make: *** No rule to make target `/rockbox/codecs/pcm_record.h', needed by `/rockbox/codecs/lib/rbcodec/test/warble.o'. |
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| 02:13:50 | saratoga | any ideas? |
| 02:14:23 | [Saint] | If you figure out the dependencies for the ypr0 toolchain for 64bit Ubuntu, gimme a yell? |
| 02:14:45 | * | [Saint] *cannot* build the bastard thing. |
| 02:17:40 | gevaerts | saratoga: which target are you configuring for? |
| 02:17:52 | saratoga | gevaerts: i tried a few |
| 02:18:06 | gevaerts | It works for me for the sdl app one |
| 02:18:24 | saratoga | if they have recording, i get that error, if they do not, i get a conflict on "commit_dcache" with target-hosted.h |
| 02:18:31 | saratoga | let me try that |
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| 02:19:07 | saratoga | ah that seems to work |
| 02:19:23 | saratoga | did we always have to select SDL for warble? i thought i didn't used to do that |
| 02:19:35 | saratoga | although i guess it makes sense |
| 02:21:25 | gevaerts | Not sure. I seem to remember that not all targets work |
| 02:30:34 | saratoga | are there any sites with higher bitrate opus files handy? |
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| 02:33:22 | [Saint] | transcode that sheeeeeeet, biatch. |
| 02:34:02 | * | [Saint] refuses to believe saratoga has no lossless files lying around. ;) |
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| 02:49:19 | pamaury | there a many build errors, something about libtlsf |
| 02:52:14 | [Saint] | pamaury: for a particular target, for all, or..is that a response to my ypr0 toolchain comment earlier? |
| 02:56:34 | pamaury | just a remark, I committed a few things and noticed that are a few reds but they seems irregular, perhaps a buildbot problem |
| 02:57:08 | pamaury | see by yourself: http://build.rockbox.org/dev.cgi |
| 02:57:37 | * | [Saint] wonders why 'saint' isn't connected. |
| 02:57:42 | [Saint] | Hmmmm. |
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| 05:19:42 | saratoga | C_MULC in libopus would probably be a lot faster in armv5 since we could use packed multiply-shift operations instead of loading 16 bits and masking off values |
| 05:20:50 | * | [Saint] thinks you codec optimization guys are nutbags ;) |
| 05:21:05 | [Saint] | Looking into some of the "simple" codecs has often made me want to cry. |
| 05:21:14 | [Saint] | Braver men than I. |
| 05:26:07 | saratoga | ha |
| 05:26:34 | saratoga | codecs are just sequences of for loops operating on arrays |
| 05:26:47 | saratoga | they're easy to optimize once you realize that |
| 05:27:12 | [Saint] | its the "must. squeeze. every. last. bit." that I can't "see". |
| 05:27:19 | [Saint] | I don't have the foresight to do so. |
| 05:28:28 | saratoga | you mean every last cycle? |
| 05:29:03 | [Saint] | Yes, indeed. I realised after pressing enter that using "bit" was rather non-obvious. |
| 05:29:20 | saratoga | ok wanted to make sure you weren't talking about encoders |
| 05:29:30 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 05:29:52 | saratoga | for decoders its actually not so complicated, most loops are fairly simple, and to optimize them you just try to make as many cycles as possible be spent doing a multiplication-add operation |
| 05:30:20 | saratoga | to do that you look at the source and destination arrays and try to figure out how to set them up logically so the multiplier is never waiting on work |
| 05:30:25 | saratoga | when you do that you're pretty much done |
| 05:31:05 | [Saint] | It always amuses me when I see such "It really isn't so complicated..." responses. As I'm sure, to you, it isn't. :) |
| 05:31:06 | saratoga | and usually thats what gcc has the most trouble with since it doesn't know quite as much about the organization of stuff in memory as someone who reads the code |
| 05:31:31 | [Saint] | But then, there's people much smarter than I that barf on the skin language we have, so, at least I understand something well :P |
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| 05:32:00 | saratoga | well its a finite series of steps that becomes fairly obvious how it should go once you look at it step by step |
| 05:32:12 | saratoga | the end result is complicated but the steps are small and individually simple |
| 05:32:37 | saratoga | load val1, load val2, multiply val1*val2, save product into location 3 |
| 05:33:35 | [Saint] | I suppose I don't think like that because I've never really worked on anything that needed me to eek out every last bit of performance. |
| 05:34:44 | saratoga | i guess its a lot more obvious once you know assembly :) |
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| 05:36:16 | [Saint] | I have somewhat of a "good enough" attitude to some things. In my mind, 101% realtime on the supported targets is where I'd stop. |
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| 05:37:08 | saratoga | i just want every format to have good battery life |
| 05:37:17 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 05:40:07 | derf | saratoga: I can make some higher-bitrate Opus files if you need them. |
| 05:42:11 | saratoga | derf: no i found one |
| 05:44:02 | saratoga | derf: i think i'm going to take a look at the opus fft |
| 05:45:00 | derf | Great. |
| 05:45:09 | derf | Let me know what I can do to help. |
| 05:45:52 | saratoga | do you know much about the celt part of the codec? |
| 05:47:03 | derf | Yes. |
| 05:47:43 | saratoga | i profiled a couple test files and they're almost all short-ish block lengths |
| 05:48:06 | saratoga | the N=60 FFT (which i guess is N=120 MDCT) is about 85% of my test sample blocks, is that normal? |
| 05:48:18 | saratoga | for vorbis and wma is the opposite with such short blocks being very rare |
| 05:48:26 | derf | Yeah, that is in fact not normal. |
| 05:48:47 | derf | Were all your test samples Fatboy or something? |
| 05:48:58 | saratoga | i'm working on a termal so i didn't actually listen to them |
| 05:49:07 | saratoga | do you have a more representative sample? |
| 05:54:02 | derf | http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/tmp/comp48-stereo.opus is 0.64% short blocks. |
| 05:54:49 | saratoga | ah much better |
| 05:54:57 | saratoga | so this one is mostly 960 point mdcts |
| 05:55:20 | saratoga | i've seen intermediate values as well, but only in some files, how does the encoder decide what block sizes it wants to use? |
| 05:55:59 | derf | See transient_analysis() in celt/celt_encoder.c |
| 05:58:42 | derf | Basically, it'll switch between 960 and 120 if you use the default frame size (20 ms), based on the analysis done in that function. |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:21 | saratoga | derf: are there always just two sizes? i thought i saw 120 length frames as well |
| 06:01:10 | saratoga | sorry 120 length FFTs, so 240 length frames |
| 06:03:46 | derf | There is some stuff in the exp_analysis branch that does real variable-frame-size stuff like Vorbis. |
| 06:04:31 | derf | Which tries to align the frame boundaries with the transients, instead of just making each whole 20 ms frame short blocks or long blocks. |
| 06:04:51 | derf | I think opusenc will also use a different frame size for the very last frame in the file sometimes. |
| 06:05:09 | derf | (i.e., to reduce the amount of padding required) |
| 06:05:59 | saratoga | so in practice just ignoring the odd sizes for optimization is ok? |
| 06:06:23 | derf | Ignoring 120 and 240 you mean? |
| 06:06:57 | saratoga | yeah |
| 06:07:20 | derf | I'm not sure what optimizations you're going to do that wouldn't apply to those if they also apply to 60 and 480. |
| 06:07:43 | derf | But yes, I'd expect 60 and 480 to be the most important sizes. |
| 06:07:46 | saratoga | derf: picking which butterflies to really work on |
| 06:08:48 | derf | 60 is (3,4,5) and 480 is (2,3,4,4,5). |
| 06:08:48 | saratoga | also maybe splitting the 4 radix thing for N=480 into a special case, since the loops and strides could be hard coded and probably more extensively optimized that way |
| 06:09:03 | derf | 120 will be (2,3,4,5) and 240 will be (3,4,4,5). |
| 06:09:06 | saratoga | yeah |
| 06:09:08 | saratoga | i saw |
| 06:09:29 | derf | Doesn't 480 have two radix-4 loops? |
| 06:09:29 | saratoga | reordering the triddle factors for specific window sizes (i think thats what they call them?) may also be worthwhile |
| 06:09:33 | saratoga | yeah |
| 06:10:10 | derf | Personally I thought you could save a lot in the radix-2 step, since it's always done at one end (I forget if it's always first or always last). |
| 06:10:41 | derf | And maybe move the muls into the normalization step (I'd have to check if that causes problems for fixed-point, though). |
| 06:11:22 | derf | Because it's just scaling everything by sqrt(0.5). |
| 06:12:55 | saratoga | which is the normalization step? |
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| 06:14:07 | derf | #ifndef FIXED_POINT fout[st->bitrev[i]].r *= st->scale; fout[st->bitrev[i]].i *= st->scale; |
| 06:14:10 | derf | #endif |
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| 06:14:20 | derf | I guess that's fft-only, not ifft. |
| 06:15:51 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 06:16:01 | derf | (and also float-only) |
| 06:16:04 | saratoga | looking at your file, the 2 butterfly is the smallest contribution |
| 06:16:40 | derf | Well, it is the simplest one to start with. |
| 06:17:08 | derf | It's one C_MUL, one C_SUB, and one C_ADDTO. |
| 06:17:12 | saratoga | yeah |
| 06:17:56 | saratoga | C_MUL looks like a good candidate for optimization on newer arm, since the 16 bit mul instructions should just work on it i think |
| 06:18:05 | derf | Yeah. |
| 06:18:24 | derf | Is newer ARM your target here? |
| 06:18:32 | saratoga | i want to do both |
| 06:18:42 | saratoga | usually i start with armv4 since its much easier |
| 06:18:50 | saratoga | then i try and do armv5 if i'm not sick of it |
| 06:18:56 | derf | Fewer instructions to choose from :). |
| 06:19:00 | saratoga | yeah |
| 06:19:22 | saratoga | the packed instructions in armv5 are way faster if you can use them, but the whole thinking about alignment thing messes with my head |
| 06:19:45 | derf | I know the Android folks would be interested in NEON opts, but that is probably the least interesting to you guys. |
| 06:19:51 | derf | ARMv6 you mean? |
| 06:19:54 | saratoga | but all the recent rockbox targets are at least armv5 |
| 06:20:05 | saratoga | v6 has some more, but they're not so useful |
| 06:20:18 | saratoga | i think they're more for video stuff |
| 06:20:38 | saratoga | the 32x16>>16 ops are all v5 |
| 06:21:01 | derf | Yeah, I guess v5 got most of the multiplies already. |
| 06:21:14 | derf | v6 is far more useful for video coding. |
| 06:21:27 | derf | Whereas v5 gives you almost nothing useful. |
| 06:21:30 | saratoga | its for 8 bit source values right? |
| 06:21:40 | derf | So I tend to forget that v5 already got some packed instructions. |
| 06:21:43 | saratoga | i looked years ago and lost interest |
| 06:22:26 | derf | Not just 8-bit values, but also the packed adds, packed subtracts, packed saturation, etc. |
| 06:22:35 | saratoga | do the android people want NEON? i just assumed audio was so fast it wasn't an issue |
| 06:23:02 | derf | Well, they've spent a lot of time writing NEON for iSAC. |
| 06:23:11 | derf | So clearly they still care. |
| 06:23:36 | derf | Of course, they stopped asking quite so loudly when I told them to use the fixed-point version instead of the float one. |
| 06:23:50 | saratoga | i want to learn neon |
| 06:23:51 | derf | Which gave them something like a 67% runtime reduction. |
| 06:23:58 | derf | NEON is pretty easy. |
| 06:24:01 | saratoga | it looks like it'd be easy |
| 06:24:03 | saratoga | yeah |
| 06:24:04 | derf | Makes MMX/SSE look like toys. |
| 06:24:27 | derf | A gekk of a lot easier than ARMv6, too, for that matter. |
| 06:24:38 | saratoga | but i dislike newer ARM processors since they're complicated enough that i can't clearly understand instruction scheduling on them |
| 06:25:07 | derf | I don't really understand beyond an A8. |
| 06:25:16 | derf | But they gimped the NEON unit in the A9 anyway. |
| 06:25:19 | saratoga | you understand the A8? |
| 06:25:26 | derf | The A8's not so bad. |
| 06:25:32 | derf | It's still in-order. |
| 06:25:42 | saratoga | i spent like 30 minutes reading the neon table and couldn't understand any of it |
| 06:25:49 | saratoga | instruction timing |
| 06:26:07 | saratoga | i don't think i ever figured out if neon Add/mul were pipelined or not |
| 06:26:13 | derf | They are. |
| 06:26:45 | saratoga | even for 128 bit mul ops? |
| 06:27:03 | saratoga | that is, can it sustain 4x32 bit muls per cycle |
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| 06:29:21 | derf | I think the A9 can issue one every two cycles. |
| 06:29:40 | derf | I don't remember on the A8, and I can't find my copy of the TRM for it. |
| 06:30:01 | saratoga | the arm11 had such a clear cycle timing diagram |
| 06:30:25 | saratoga | complete with examples and everything |
| 06:30:32 | derf | Oh, there it is. |
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| 06:34:04 | saratoga | so when they say "16.6.2. Advanced SIMD integer ALU instructions" and "cycles: 1" thats the pipeline stall before you can use the ALU again, not the latency right? |
| 06:34:15 | derf | Right. |
| 06:34:43 | derf | The pipeline stages are in the columns after that. |
| 06:35:57 | derf | I.e., VADD Qd,Qn,Qm requires Qn and Qm in stage N2, and returns the result in stage N3. |
| 06:36:41 | derf | (meaning Qd will be available in stage N2 for an instruction that issues the following cycle) |
| 06:38:30 | derf | It can also dual-issue load/stores (as well as permute instructions, though that's probably not something you care about a lot). |
| 06:38:47 | derf | I.e., one load/store and one arithmetic operation can issues in the same cycle. |
| 06:39:03 | saratoga | what does the N in N2 refer to ? |
| 06:39:26 | derf | N is for the NEON pipeline. |
| 06:39:41 | saratoga | ah yes |
| 06:39:42 | derf | (which is separate from the normal ARM pipeline) |
| 06:39:50 | saratoga | i vaguely remember that from the diagram |
| 06:40:34 | derf | If either of the instructions is multi-cycle, then the last cycle of the first instruction can still be shared with the first cycle of the second instruction. |
| 06:40:55 | derf | (all this dual-issue stuff goes away in the A9, though) |
| 06:43:14 | derf | Looks like 4x32 VMUL is 4 cycles on an A8. |
| 06:43:28 | saratoga | before you can issue another one? |
| 06:43:32 | derf | Yes. |
| 06:43:40 | derf | 16.6.3 |
| 06:43:47 | saratoga | isn't that just the latency? |
| 06:43:56 | derf | No. |
| 06:44:02 | derf | Latency is 6 cycles. |
| 06:44:27 | derf | Well, actually more. |
| 06:44:30 | saratoga | so the entire 4 cycles front he source read to the dest read can't issue another? |
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| 06:44:57 | derf | QdLo is available in N6 of the second cycle (so it would be available for N1 7 cycles after the VMUL starts issuing) |
| 06:45:11 | saratoga | what does the "Cycles:1" mean then? |
| 06:45:44 | derf | QdHi is available in N6 of the 4th cycle, so it would be available 9 cycles after the VMUL starts issuing. |
| 06:45:58 | derf | saratoga: Not sure what you mean. |
| 06:46:28 | derf | You're looking at the A8 TRM, right? |
| 06:46:36 | derf | Table 16-19? |
| 06:46:38 | saratoga | yeah: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0344k/Babbgjhi.html |
| 06:46:55 | saratoga | it says 1 under cycles, then N2 for load and N6 for write |
| 06:47:08 | saratoga | or rather reg read, reg write |
| 06:47:18 | derf | Waiting for that page to load... |
| 06:47:24 | derf | (internet here is pretty crappy) |
| 06:47:54 | saratoga | thats just an HTML version of Table 16-19? |
| 06:48:02 | saratoga | Table 16-19 (no question mark intended) |
| 06:48:23 | derf | Well, your link too me to 16.1. |
| 06:48:48 | saratoga | http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0344k/ch16s06s03.html#Babjeifi |
| 06:49:01 | saratoga | i think the html frames on that page make pasting weird |
| 06:49:08 | derf | Right, so... |
| 06:49:15 | derf | See under "Register format"? |
| 06:49:31 | derf | The first part of that table is for the Dd,Dn,Dm form. |
| 06:49:40 | derf | And for .8 and .16 data sizes only. |
| 06:49:55 | saratoga | i guess what i never understood is what the "cycles" column is supposed to mean |
| 06:49:58 | derf | E.g., 8x8 or 4x16 muls. |
| 06:50:09 | derf | It's showing what happens on each cycle. |
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| 06:50:31 | saratoga | "Assuming no data hazards, the instruction takes a minimum of one cycle to execute as indicated by the value in the Cycles column." |
| 06:50:52 | saratoga | does that just mean decode takes 1 cycle and you can issue another (non multiply) instruction on the next cycle? |
| 06:50:55 | derf | Yeah, that is leaving out quite a bit. |
| 06:51:22 | saratoga | i guess that would be something like the 'cycles to issue' |
| 06:51:47 | derf | For a VMUL.[S|U][8|16] Dd,Dn,Dm, that is correct. |
| 06:52:22 | derf | For a VMUL.[S|U][8|16] Qd,Qn,Qm, it takes 2 cycles before you can issue another arithmetic instruction. |
| 06:52:51 | derf | Double those counts for the VMUL[S|U]32 versions. |
| 06:52:57 | saratoga | but you can't issue another multiply instruction for 4 (or 5) cycles? |
| 06:53:01 | derf | (i.e., 2 and 4 cycles, respectively) |
| 06:53:21 | derf | No, you can still issues more multiplies. |
| 06:53:41 | derf | But they need to have their arguments available in the indicated pipeline stages. |
| 06:54:01 | saratoga | ahhh ok |
| 06:54:26 | saratoga | so the throughput for independent multiply instructions is how many bits per cycle? |
| 06:54:31 | saratoga | 128? |
| 06:54:42 | saratoga | for VMUL.[S|U][8|16] Dd,Dn,Dm that is |
| 06:54:54 | derf | 64. |
| 06:55:06 | saratoga | thats vaguely what i remembered |
| 06:55:10 | derf | The D[n] registers are 64 bits. |
| 06:55:19 | saratoga | oh of course |
| 06:55:26 | saratoga | for int32 is it still 64? |
| 06:55:31 | derf | No. |
| 06:56:00 | derf | That's the 3rd and 4th sections of that table "(.32 normal)" |
| 06:56:05 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) |
| 06:56:53 | derf | .32 is the data size... "normal" just means it's not a "widening" or "long" multiply. |
| 06:57:00 | * | [Saint] wonders why a Rockbox'ed N2G would make the boot process of a PC *totally barf*... |
| 06:57:34 | saratoga | wait how do i read the cycles column under the 4th section? |
| 06:57:35 | [Saint] | I even cheto see that the BIOS wasn't trying to boot from it, by disabling booting from all removable devices, ...no dice. |
| 06:57:47 | saratoga | is it saying that on cycle 1, X happens, then on cycle 2, Y? |
| 06:57:49 | [Saint] | *s/cheto/checked to/ |
| 06:57:53 | saratoga | and so on to cycle 4? |
| 06:58:39 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 06:58:43 | derf | saratoga: Yes, where "X" happens in a specific pipeline stage. |
| 06:59:10 | derf | I.e., each cycle has its own set of pipeline stages associated with it. |
| 06:59:10 | saratoga | ok now i understand |
| 07:00 |
| 07:00:44 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) |
| 07:02:28 | [Saint] | Hmmmmm, same result. |
| 07:02:40 | derf | One last bit that's not in the table: multiply-accumulator forwarding. |
| 07:02:41 | derf | See the footnote at the very bottom of that page. |
| 07:02:50 | [Saint] | The Ubuntu boot process hates Rockbox? |
| 07:03:08 | [Saint] | Neither my laptop, nor desktop, will boot with a Rockbox device connected. |
| 07:03:33 | [Saint] | I checked an N2g, a mini2G, and a Classic. |
| 07:03:53 | derf | [Saint]: I have that same problem, but it doesn't even get past the BIOS. |
| 07:04:01 | [Saint] | All were "charge only" at the time I power cycled the machine. |
| 07:04:21 | derf | Not sure if it's the Rockbox device specifically. I just unplugged all my USB devices to get past it. |
| 07:04:24 | [Saint] | I didn't want them mounted, as there's some data I care about on the latter two. |
| 07:04:43 | [Saint] | derf: well, I have several other USB devices attached. |
| 07:04:51 | [Saint] | I can only reproduce this with Rockbox. |
| 07:05:06 | [Saint] | Ohhhh...interesting test. Lets try the Apple OF. |
| 07:05:18 | derf | It didn't occur to me to narrow it down to a specific one. |
| 07:05:20 | [Saint] | brb |
| 07:05:27 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 07:07:30 | derf | saratoga: Also, this may be of some help: http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/tmp/neon_instructions.txt |
| 07:07:48 | [Saint] | Yep...it seems it's doing it. |
| 07:07:55 | * | [Saint] a word |
| 07:07:56 | derf | That's the summary of "WTF do these instructions actually do?" that I wanted but could not find in ARM's own documentation. |
| 07:08:02 | [Saint] | Yep...it seems it's Rockbox doing it. |
| 07:08:03 | derf | So I just wrote my own. |
| 07:08:31 | [Saint] | Under the Apple OF, the machines boot fine. |
| 07:08:42 | [Saint] | What could Rockbox possibly be messing up here? |
| 07:08:57 | [Saint] | Or, interfering with. |
| 07:09:24 | * | [Saint] notes that he has disabled booting from removable devices in the BIOS of both machines he is testing this on. |
| 07:10:05 | [Saint] | I suspected a few times that a connected Rb device messed with booting, but never looked into it more than "Huh? ...that was weird". |
| 07:11:11 | [Saint] | I can get no meaningful debug info from either machine. |
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| 08:12:44 | [Saint] | Well, I can consistently reproduce this reboot weirdness with a connected Rockbox device. |
| 08:13:13 | [Saint] | No idea why this happens, but, yeah. |
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| 08:14:36 | ParkerR_ | Umm could it just possibly be that the device pulls too much power upon insertion? |
| 08:15:07 | ParkerR_ | Ohhh, I thought this was in another channel. I am so sorry |
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| 09:08:24 | [Saint] | I suspected it might be the case, but I checked anyway, and it doesn't happen with a 'charge only' cable. |
| 09:08:54 | [Saint] | (actually a standard Apple cable with the data lines cut) |
| 09:09:23 | [Saint] | Nor does it happen with a 'real' cable when booted up under the Apple OF. |
| 09:09:34 | * | [Saint] shrugs |
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| 11:34:03 | [Saint] | scorche`: or any other forum type dude, this "person" is quite highly suspicious - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,33874.msg216204.html#msg216204 |
| 11:34:06 | | Join funman_ [0] (~fun@rockbox/developer/funman) |
| 11:34:27 | [Saint] | necro-posting on a thread from March, with the exact wording of a section of the release notes. |
| 11:35:11 | [Saint] | (user has a single post, a verbatim section of the 3.11.2 release notes) |
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| 11:36:25 | [Saint] | Errrr, sorry. Google lied to my eyes. |
| 11:36:48 | [Saint] | It's a verbatim section of gevaerts' release email |
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| 11:37:47 | [Saint] | No ICQ address though ;) |
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| 11:48:58 | brianmilw | quick and simple question, I have been searching and my eyes and brain hurt. I share a ipod with the wife; older ipod video 5 and need a bootloader with a selection screen on boot instead of using key combinations. I plan to dual boot between the stock and rockbox kernel. what would be the quickest approach, idea bootloader? I keep finding outdated information from 2007 and am half asleep. Can I simply navigate to a |
| 11:48:58 | brianmilw | setting in rockbox or modify a config file for the currently loaded rockbox bootloader installed from the rbutil. |
| 11:50:09 | brianmilw | would the ipl bootloaded modified for just the apple and rockbox kernel be my best solution? |
| 11:53:53 | brianmilw | anyone please? i am multitasking with 4 different things right now, a quick lead in the right direction is all i need, i can research from there. |
| 12:00 |
| 12:01:34 | * | brianmilw had too many beers |
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| 12:33:10 | pamaury | bluebrother^: ping |
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| 12:36:20 | pamaury | bluebrother^: I have some questions regarding bootloader install in RBUtil. First, what is the meaning of the different options in Capability (IsFile ? IsRaw ?). Second, it seems that CanCheckVersion allows RButil to compare versions but this seems unimplemented, am I right ? |
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| 13:15:03 | [Saint] | I seem to recall looking at that at a point. |
| 13:15:44 | [Saint] | If I'm not mistaken, I think it is/was/could be to allow RbUtil to serve release client builds. |
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| 14:18:58 | gevaerts | [Saint]: HID, maybe? |
| 14:19:10 | [Saint] | disabled. |
| 14:20:34 | gevaerts | Fully? Charging mode normally sets up a HID device |
| 14:21:11 | gevaerts | Hm |
| 14:21:17 | gevaerts | On the nano2g it is, IIRC |
| 14:21:19 | [Saint] | Well, the N2G at least has HIS disabled I think, doesn't it? My usual config.cfg I dump onto my players disables it anyway. |
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| 14:21:41 | gevaerts | Can you check using lsusb -v -d <ids>? |
| 14:21:42 | * | [Saint] word failed. What happened there? |
| 14:24:07 | [Saint] | I have an N2G beside me now, it doesn't show at all in lsusb |
| 14:24:33 | gevaerts | does dmesg complain about it? |
| 14:24:35 | | Quit sakax (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) |
| 14:24:40 | [Saint] | doing the whole "press a button to disable enumeration" thing, to stop it panicing and dying. |
| 14:24:51 | [Saint] | No, no complaints from dmesg |
| 14:25:33 | [Saint] | I'm at a total loss, but, it *is* reproducible here. ANd only Rockbox seems to trigger it. |
| 14:25:41 | gevaerts | OK, then I don't know what's going on |
| 14:26:12 | [Saint] | In both machines the BIOS is a little lacking, and the error logging therein isn't catching any failures. |
| 14:26:55 | [Saint] | it just...hangs. It doesn't even get to POST |
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| 17:15:56 | [Saint] | Hmmmm, even with USB disabled, the N2G is locking up occasionally when connected. |
| 17:16:23 | [Saint] | it's a full "playback stalls, hard reset is the only out" lockup. |
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| 17:25:45 | jlbiasini | pamaury: ping? |
| 17:25:54 | pamaury | jlbiasini: pong |
| 17:26:03 | pamaury | how are you ? it has been a long time |
| 17:26:15 | jlbiasini | jep a long time !! |
| 17:27:42 | jlbiasini | I'm still very busy I live in romania now I work as a volunteer for an NGO on their CRM software... I was wondering if you would push my few patches |
| 17:28:34 | pamaury | sure, can you recall me which ones, I've been so busy recently, just coding a few hours here and there |
| 17:28:46 | jlbiasini | g#352 |
| 17:28:49 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #352 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/352 : [FUZE+] Rockblox plugin slight keymaps update by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/52/352/3) |
| 17:29:06 | jlbiasini | g#353 |
| 17:29:08 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #353 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/353 : [Fuze+] PictureFlow: complete keys mapping by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/53/353/1) |
| 17:29:22 | jlbiasini | g#354 |
| 17:29:23 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #354 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/354 : [Fuze+] imageviewer: update/complete keymaps by Jean-Louis Biasini (changes/54/354/2) |
| 17:29:54 | jlbiasini | those are pretty safe it's only keymaps stuff |
| 17:31:01 | pamaury | done ! thanks |
| 17:31:10 | jlbiasini | actually I figured out that there is still one game plugin that would need the same treatment as rockblox but I can't recall wich one... |
| 17:31:12 | pamaury | if you have some time, you could test the new frequency scaling code |
| 17:31:30 | jlbiasini | Jep I just installed it on my device |
| 17:31:46 | [Saint] | Hum, just checking on a stashed commit...do I need to comment the entire block of USB defines, or, is disabling HAVE_ROCKB)X_USB enough to wipe out everything depending on it? |
| 17:32:25 | jlbiasini | pamaury: a propos does that suppose some bootloader recompilation? |
| 17:32:31 | pamaury | no |
| 17:33:51 | jlbiasini | I still have a very strange behaviour on with my laptop: if the device is connected when I power it up it blocks the booting process |
| 17:34:13 | pamaury | yeah, lots of people have reported this and not only with the fuze+ |
| 17:34:21 | [Saint] | I'm assuming, for the sake of cleanliness, that I should remove/comment the entire block of USB defines, but for my purposes, disabling only HAVE_ROCKBOX_USB "just works". |
| 17:34:32 | pamaury | when I'm back home, maybe I should have a look at this with the usb analyzer |
| 17:34:40 | pamaury | perhaps the stack doesn't answer to some request |
| 17:34:46 | [Saint] | jlbiasini: interestingly, I made a long rant about this earlier :) |
| 17:34:52 | jlbiasini | Ah ok! I thought I was alone with it... |
| 17:35:06 | [Saint] | it happens even with USB disabled (for me at least), so...I have no idea. |
| 17:35:59 | gevaerts | [Saint]: HAVE_ROCKBOX_USB? |
| 17:36:18 | [Saint] | shit, sorry s/HAVE/USE/ |
| 17:36:18 | jlbiasini | the funniest is that if one disconnect and reconnect the device a few second later, the booting process goes on and then get stuck again... |
| 17:36:41 | [Saint] | jlbiasini: ah, I didn't experiment with that. |
| 17:36:47 | gevaerts | Right. IIRC, disabling USE_ROCKBOX_USB does *not* disable the USB stack |
| 17:37:07 | [Saint] | Does you machine even get to POST? <−− jlbiasini |
| 17:37:16 | [Saint] | My laptop/desktop don't. |
| 17:37:36 | [Saint] | gevaerts: so, the "clean" version is to disable the entire block of USB defines, I assume? |
| 17:38:10 | gevaerts | You want to remove HAVE_USBSTACK |
| 17:38:57 | [Saint] | but then, aren't a fe other defines irrelevant? |
| 17:39:00 | gevaerts | Not sure if you need to disable more than that. You shouldn't have to, I think, unless there's some missing #ifdef HAVE_USBSTACK somewhere, which would cause the build to fail |
| 17:39:42 | jlbiasini | [Saint]: I don't know what you are talking about :D! |
| 17:39:51 | [Saint] | there's USB_OTG defines, HID, ENDPOINTS, product/vendor ID... |
| 17:39:57 | jlbiasini | what is POST |
| 17:40:01 | [Saint] | jlbiasini: nevermind ;) |
| 17:40:54 | gevaerts | USE_ROCKBOX_USB says to use our usb storage driver for storage access. CONFIG_USBOTG is IMO misnamed and says which chip is used. HAVE_USBSTACK controls whether the entire USB stack is built at all |
| 17:41:16 | pamaury | jlbiasini: early stage of bios boot |
| 17:41:22 | gevaerts | jlbiasini: "power on self test", i.e. early BIOS boot |
| 17:41:30 | [Saint] | Aha, USBOTG is indeed misleadingly named. I wondered why it was there at all, but, now I know. |
| 17:43:14 | jlbiasini | Well I guess it does reach bios early stage as it display ASUS logo it's before the possibility to get into bios but I guess it's already bios |
| 17:43:36 | gevaerts | It's BIOS from power on to the bootloader |
| 17:44:31 | jlbiasini | well it's definivily before the grub anyway |
| 17:45:54 | [Saint] | Mine black screens immediately, with no disk access. |
| 17:46:01 | jlbiasini | [Saint]: woaw do you mean that you can't even power on your laptop with a rockbox device connected? |
| 17:46:25 | [Saint] | It powers on, both machines just sit at a black screen, though. |
| 17:46:50 | [Saint] | Normally I'd be at my login in ~3 seconds or so. |
| 17:47:00 | jlbiasini | Well I suppose it depend when the bios is displaying a logo |
| 17:47:26 | [Saint] | Pffffft! real BIOS' don't display vendor logos ;) |
| 17:47:48 | [Saint] | That's a second of boot time wasted! :D |
| 17:48:00 | jlbiasini | 3 seconds from power to login? WOAw do you only have a graphic server!!! |
| 17:49:10 | jlbiasini | i'm on debian + xfce + ssd and I still have 10 second to boot... |
| 17:49:52 | * | [Saint] decides to time his laptop. |
| 17:50:23 | * | gevaerts thinks this is off-topic |
| 17:50:31 | [Saint] | Hum, assuming my reactions are anywhere near accurate...I was a bit off. ~8 seconds. |
| 17:50:34 | [Saint] | and, yes. |
| 17:50:37 | jlbiasini | [Saint]: Actually firm logo were implemented for Rockbox debugging usable :D |
| 17:50:46 | jlbiasini | *use |
| 17:51:31 | * | [Saint] prods jlbiasini into #rockbox-community |
| 17:53:42 | jlbiasini | jep, sorry |
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| 17:55:38 | gevaerts | [Saint]: I've just pushed a fix to make nano2g (and probably others) build without *just* HAVE_USBSTACK |
| 17:55:52 | | Quit jlbiasini (Quit: jlbiasini) |
| 17:56:21 | gevaerts | I have no idea if it will use 500mA for charging though |
| 17:57:58 | [Saint] | I'm not sure I understand the association between *CHARGING_ENABLE and *USB_STACK |
| 17:58:40 | gevaerts | HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE is the one that makes the USB stack tell the charging code if it's allowed to use 100mA or 500mA |
| 17:59:05 | gevaerts | Hmm |
| 17:59:13 | gevaerts | No, I think I just broke h300 :\ |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:13 | gevaerts | HAVE_USB_CHARGING_ENABLE is the one that makes the USB code tell the charging code if it's allowed to use 100mA or 500mA. That code can either be the usb stack or something else for HW usb... |
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| 18:01:31 | [Saint] | I *do* want to do it/want it done cleanly. But ultimately, the purpose is a quick'n'dirty workaround for a panic on USB insertion. |
| 18:01:42 | [Saint] | I don't want to break anything just for that. |
| 18:02:29 | [Saint] | I think USB not working is fine, panicing in insert, notsomuch. Is leaving the USb stack enabled problematic, or simply wasteful? |
| 18:03:01 | gevaerts | I don't know. I don't have a nano2g :) |
| 18:06:54 | gevaerts | IIRC last time someone checked rebooting to the EDM failed too |
| 18:07:46 | gevaerts | If leaving HAVE_USBSTACK enabled works, it's the better option, because it allows the 500mA charging thing to work |
| 18:07:48 | [Saint] | That was me, and yeah, your reboot on insert patch failed for me. |
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| 19:08:40 | z180 | do most DAPs have a DSP? |
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| 19:19:48 | bertrik | no |
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| 20:03:35 | lorenzo92 | pamaury: lcd update is pretty fast, I was wrong before, well I can still see that it is updating from startup (from garbage colors) but I think it is normal |
| 20:03:50 | lorenzo92 | pamaury: next step SDRAM, right? I have the timings values |
| 20:04:23 | pamaury | did you dump clkctrl values to see the cpu speed ? SDRAM can be configured by the bootloader using the sdram command |
| 20:04:31 | | Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:04:35 | pamaury | lorenzo92: ^ |
| 20:04:57 | | Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 20:05:14 | lorenzo92 | no I need to do the cpu thing, for timings I read the bootloader log and there are these values (ECRAMXXXX) |
| 20:05:17 | lorenzo92 | or similar |
| 20:06:39 | | Join Strife89-N810 [0] (~user@207.144.201.128) |
| 20:06:41 | pamaury | I think it's much simpler to let the bootloader setup the sdram |
| 20:06:56 | pamaury | at least for a start |
| 20:11:50 | lorenzo92 | pamaury: uu I need to redefine clock control registers, some are different for 36xx |
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| 20:22:36 | lorenzo92 | pamaury: CPU clock divider is 20 |
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| 21:04:35 | | Join AConfusedMan [0] (~462dadf9@www.haxx.se) |
| 21:05:05 | AConfusedMan | Soooo...is anyone here? |
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| 21:05:28 | [Saint] | AConfusedMan: multiple someones. |
| 21:05:39 | [Saint] | Don't ask-to-ask. Just ask. |
| 21:06:03 | AConfusedMan | Multiple p[Alright, thanks. |
| 21:06:21 | AConfusedMan | Basicall, so I want to rockbox my ipod classic 6g with the beta release. |
| 21:06:39 | AConfusedMan | I coudn't find changelogs or release notes anywhere. |
| 21:07:09 | [Saint] | not even on http://www.rockbox.org/, seems odd. |
| 21:07:13 | [Saint] | You looked, right? |
| 21:07:25 | AConfusedMan | Let me find the link. |
| 21:07:30 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/recent.shtml#code |
| 21:07:44 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ReleaseNotes312 |
| 21:07:46 | [Saint] | done. |
| 21:08:14 | AConfusedMan | Well...Guess I suck at looking for things. |
| 21:08:44 | [Saint] | What OS does your host system run? |
| 21:08:57 | AConfusedMan | Stock Apple firmware, |
| 21:09:19 | [Saint] | Not the iPod, your host machine. The machine you'll be installing Rockbox from. |
| 21:09:20 | AConfusedMan | Let me find the version. |
| 21:09:27 | AConfusedMan | Oh; Win 7. |
| 21:09:36 | | Join Fuzebug [0] (324bd132@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.75.209.50) |
| 21:09:45 | [Saint] | then, here: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation/iPodClassic/PrepareDFUWin |
| 21:10:02 | [Saint] | Rockbox cannot be installed without the emCORE project, so, start there. |
| 21:10:15 | [Saint] | those instructions will guide you in every step you need to take. |
| 21:10:18 | AConfusedMan | I read it's pretty unstable; where do I submit bug reports and such? |
| 21:10:35 | [Saint] | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?type=2 |
| 21:10:45 | AConfusedMan | Excellent. |
| 21:11:11 | AConfusedMan | Thanks so much; I've been looking for these things. |
| 21:11:24 | [Saint] | The emCORE link is an interactive step-by-step, sing out if you get stuck. |
| 21:11:57 | AConfusedMan | Got it. I'll keep you posted as I go installing. |
| 21:13:45 | | Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 21:13:56 | Fuzebug | Can someone Please fix the keymaps for the text editor on the Fuze +, There isn't a key mapped to the context menu for copying or pasting lines. |
| 21:15:02 | | Quit |akaWolf| (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:15:41 | [Saint] | Fuzebug: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php?type=2 |
| 21:16:01 | [Saint] | kindly open a ticket in the tracker after verifying none exist already. |
| 21:20:55 | Fuzebug | Thanks I'll check |
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| 21:46:17 | | Join fuzetester [0] (324bd132@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.75.209.50) |
| 21:47:20 | fuzetester | I created a bug report for the fuze + text editor at: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12793 |
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| 21:48:44 | [Saint] | Thanking you. |
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| 23:12:19 | [Saint] | Who's "the wiki guy"? |
| 23:12:27 | [Saint] | Is that you too, scorche`? |
| 23:12:51 | gevaerts | Zagor |
| 23:13:27 | | Quit DonAman (Quit: The Sleep of Reason brings forth monsters) |
| 23:13:28 | * | [Saint] wonders if wiki member phone numbers can be truncated/redacted/whatever the word is just as email addresses are, for non-members. |
| 23:13:51 | | Join eckoit [0] (~ryan@50.65.10.24) |
| 23:14:01 | [Saint] | It occured to me the other day that, yes, I put it there...but, when I did so, I did so assuming it wouldn't be public. |
| 23:14:11 | [Saint] | ...but I don't actually care that it is, at all. |
| 23:15:38 | [Saint] | email addresses appear as <address>@blah-blah.org, or something similar, it'd be kinda cool if the same smarts were applied to the wiki for phone numbers but I couldn't fingure out where I needed to look to do that. |
| 23:15:51 | [Saint] | Or if I even have access to whatever trunk/repo that lies in. |
| 23:16:19 | [Saint] | *figure, too |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).