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#rockbox log for 2012-12-27

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03:15:52[Saint]who maintains/has direct access to the github mirror?
03:16:18*[Saint] was thinking that it would be nice if Rockbox had a project page in the repo there.
03:17:02[Saint]https://help.github.com/articles/user-organization-and-project-pages
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04:18:14 Join HelpPlease [0] (~462dadf9@www.haxx.se)
04:18:29HelpPleaseCan someone help?
04:19:20 Join TheSphinX^ [0] (~briehl@p579CC0DD.dip.t-dialin.net)
04:19:40HelpPleaseHelp?
04:20:06 Quit TheSphinX_ (Read error: Operation timed out)
04:20:58[Saint]Just ask your question.
04:21:25[Saint]...and please, don't PM to try to get a response.
04:21:44HelpPleaseI'm sorry, I'm freaking out a bit.
04:22:34HelpPleaseSo, it's the same guy that came for the release notes on the ipod Classic 6gen; I finished installing rockbox on my 6th gen. It was running fine for a few hours; however, once I powered down, it refuses to power up again.
04:22:37HelpPleaseWhat gives?
04:23:22[Saint]Hard-reset the device.
04:23:25[Saint]Menu+Select
04:24:19HelpPlease...I've got to read the manual for this. Yeah, that was a pretty simple fix, apparently.
04:24:31HelpPleaseCan you link me to the operating manual, if there is one?
04:25:16[Saint]It's the same fix for Roxkbox/emCORE as it is the Apple OF, Menu+Select is controlled by hardware, not software, so it always works as long as the hardware is functional.
04:26:09[Saint]There is currently no manual for the Classic, due to the port status, but it is essentially identical to the iPod Video: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-build.html
04:26:55HelpPleaseAh, I see.Should I submit a bug report about the incident, or is it common enough?
04:26:57[Saint]Some features mentioned in the manual for the Video remain unimplemented, but there's no features on the Classic that are not implemented on the Video.
04:27:23[Saint]It is common enough, and I'm not sure that bug reports for "unusable" targets are accepted.
04:27:55[Saint]The tricky part of the Classic port is that it still relies on a bootloader that is entirely seperate to the Rockbox project.
04:28:17HelpPleaseAh, so sorting out the problem is much more difficult because of the two variables.
04:28:52[Saint]Yes and no. It can sometimes be difficult to decide who to direct support requests to.
04:29:13HelpPleaseI see; if you don't mind me going off topic, are you one of Rockbox's developers?
04:29:37[Saint]For the main part, I am happy to handle rockbox-specific issues here, but technically, Rockbox offers no official way to install this port so support falls in the hands of the emCORE team.
04:30:06[Saint]It's not /very/ off-topic, but, yes...you could say that.
04:30:32[Saint]Insofar as I have my name in the credits and a few hundered lines of code to my name.
04:30:44[Saint]...not particularly interesting things, though. :)
04:31:32HelpPleaseAlright; thanks for your efforts anyhow. I've been using Rockbox for a year or two now and I've been satisfied with every single install I've done.
04:31:39HelpPleaseSo I thank you personally. :3
04:33:51[Saint]My efforts revolve around the UI, but, thanks nonetheless.
04:34:27HelpPleaseSorry for getting so worked up, and thanks for the fix!
04:35:27[Saint]I understand. As much as we puch across the target is unstable/unusable, people are still going to (rightfully) expect it to work, or at least power on.
04:35:54[Saint]...a lot of people don't know about the menu+select reset, as the Apple firmware very rarely gets itself into this situation.
04:36:12HelpPleaseHuh; I see.
04:36:26 Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
04:36:29[Saint]but the procedure is the same for Rockbox and the Apple firmware, it is linked to hardware, not software. So if the hardware works, it will always reset the device.
04:36:35HelpPleaseWhat should I expect in terms of errors? Is there anything particulary device breaking I should know about?
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04:37:06[Saint]USB may or may not take some time to mount, or refuse to mount at all.
04:37:15[Saint]Other than that, no, I think not.
04:37:34SuperBrainAKi had to learn that because my ipod nano 2nd gen boots to OF when i have it off and plug it in so i have to reboot it
04:38:11[Saint]The main issues keeping the port back from being classified as unstable (and eventually stable) are: lack of a manual, lack of a Rockbox bootloader (as in, not emCORE), and a few missing features.
04:39:00[Saint]Your iPod Nano 2G will reboot to the OF iff (if and only if) the hold switch is engaged during USB insertion/powerup.
04:39:16[Saint]this is the same for all the supported iPods with dual-boot.
04:39:57[Saint](note, the Classic current lacks dual-boot. At the present point, there isn't anything more than a few very low-level elements of Apple code left on the device)
04:40:03[Saint]*currently
04:40:16SuperBrainAKhrm i dont recall if the hold switch was on or not :/
04:40:42[Saint]It's the only time a power cycle wil boot the OF over Rockbox.
04:41:13[Saint]It's actually a safety feature, in case Rockbox becomes to unstable to be able to mount so you can repair the installation
04:41:23SuperBrainAKah smart
04:42:57[Saint]In the case of the Classic (and also the Nano 2G), the emCORE bootloader provides this functionality via holding any key during boot if fastboot is enabled.
04:43:19[Saint]otherwise it will always boot to the boot menu and allow you to boot a rescue image from the Tools menu.
04:43:24 Quit amayer (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
04:44:19[Saint]emCORE menu - Tools - Run Rockbox fallback image (in case you need to use it)
04:46:34[Saint]You can also install emCORE on your Nano 2G, but it is really aimed at more of an advanced use case.
04:47:18[Saint]If all you need it for is to boot Rockbox and the OF, the Rockbox bootloader is fine.
04:47:34SuperBrainAKyea im fine with the rockbox bootloader
04:47:51[Saint]emCORE was created during the very hectic early days of stability with the Nano2G port.
04:48:47[Saint]It then branched off into the Classic when some user discovered a viable exploit for the Nano 3G, which turned out to be viable on the Nano 4G and Classic as well.
04:49:12[Saint]Until then, the door was firmly shut on a port for the Classic.
04:49:55[Saint]Some very kind user donated TheSeven a (somewhat damaged) iPod Classic, and about a month later we had a (allbeit rather skeletal) Rockbox port for the Classic.
04:51:34*SuperBrainAK wonders how easy it would be to include a rather common/cheap mp3 to the rockbox lineup :)
04:52:06[Saint]...Like the Sansas, or Rockchip devices?
04:52:23SuperBrainAKi actually have like 3 of them, they are called riptunes
04:52:40[Saint]You can pick up a Fuze or a Clip *pretty* damn cheap these days.
04:52:55HelpPleaseI got mine for $45.
04:53:07HelpPleaseThey die quick, though. I've had tow in a year's span.
04:53:10HelpPlease*two
04:53:32*[Saint] classes the Clips as a "disposable" device.
04:53:52HelpPleaseAgreed.
04:53:54[Saint]They feel kinda cheap, they are literally kinda cheap, and they're not /terribly/ rebost.
04:54:11HelpPleaseThey're pretty useful for what they are, though.
04:54:19[Saint]...they're a great player when treated well, with a case and a screen gaured they'll last quite some time.
04:54:29[Saint]*gaurd
04:54:56HelpPleaseOh?
04:55:03[Saint]I like the Fuze, but the mechanical wheel is a failure point.
04:55:16SuperBrainAKthis is the kind of riptunes i have but there are many varietys: http://www.amazon.com/Riptunes-2GB-MP3-Player-Black/dp/B004HSRXJM
04:55:54[Saint]SuperBrainAK: and, it's a rockchip SoC in these devices?
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04:57:27[Saint]There's currently a generic rk27** port, which is why I ask.
04:57:56SuperBrainAKum the main µc is an ak2027c multimedia controller
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05:00:28SuperBrainAKive got the datasheet downloaded but i cant find it online anymore :/
05:00:56[Saint]:-S
05:01:42[Saint]Found it for you: http://goo.gl/9Jkdq
05:04:17SuperBrainAKi am using duckduckgo and i skipped the first link :)
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05:05:43SuperBrainAKi guess with my new 16MP camera i can post some good pics of the board
05:06:46SuperBrainAKi cant do it today cuz im away from the board
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05:23:12HelpPleaseThat's weird...I just turned booted into Rockbox and it's stuck at the spash screen.
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05:24:01HelpPleaseOh, fixed.
05:24:24*SuperBrainAK spashes helpplease :)
05:25:14HelpPleasespashes?
05:25:23HelpPleaseOh!
05:25:28HelpPlease*Splash
05:25:48HelpPleaseBut I just reset, no biggie.
05:26:21SuperBrainAKdont mind me im just restless
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05:28:14HelpPleaseOh! Then maybe I can ask you; can I use the iPod Video themes with the iPod Classic 6g port?
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05:29:20*SuperBrainAK is just an inexperienced rockbox fan
05:29:34HelpPleaseI know that feel.
05:30:00HelpPleaseI thought I'd never go back to apple, but the Zip died so quickly, I just coudn't stand it.
05:30:01HelpPlease;w;
05:30:48SuperBrainAKits possible the themes are compatible depends on what is the difference
05:31:50HelpPleaseWell, the iPod video and classic don't have mcuh; I'll just give it a shot and tell you what happens.
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05:32:51SuperBrainAKk itll be a learning experience for me and you
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05:35:48HelpPleaseWell, it works pretty well.
05:35:56HelpPleaseSmaller than I expected, but it fits like a glove.
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05:36:53SuperBrainAKcool
05:37:41HelpPleaseSo, yeah, it could be done. You have to play around with the settings a bit to get it to work, though.
05:38:23SuperBrainAKah
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13:29:47whiskers75I am glad for tools/rockboxdev - trying to get Rockbox on Travis would be a pain otherwise :)
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15:21:55amayer_Is an error like this usable?
15:21:56amayer_I got the error after ejecting my ipod classic from an ubuntu machine and unplugging it.
15:22:00amayer_Prefetch abort at 4114B00A
15:22:02amayer_FSR 0xF7
15:22:04amayer_(domain 15, fault 7)
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15:39:49soapI'm not familiar with what's been done with the database the last few years. Reading http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,42500.msg216221/ made me think: Does the database still barf on illegal metadata?
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16:28:54gevaertssoap: some of it, almost certainly
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16:29:15gevaertsThe main innovation is the logging feature so you can figure out which file went wrong
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16:51:30whiskers75Trying to compile Rockbox - is there any APT package for arm-elf-eabi-gcc? Running rockboxdev.sh results in 'cannot compute suffix of object files'
16:54:07gevaertsI don't think anyone has made any
16:55:27whiskers75Riiiight. (Reading the docs says I should install binutils first. [makes changes in .travis.yml])
16:56:19gevaertsrockboxdev.sh should do everything for you, really
16:56:53whiskers75gevaerts: The issue is, on Travis they have a stupid timeout - so I need to split rbdev.sh into 2 parts
16:57:56gevaertsWhat's travis?
16:58:17whiskers75http://travis-ci.org/
16:58:26whiskers75an automated build thingy
16:59:07whiskers75So far, none of my Rockbox builds have worked. whiskers75/rockbox">https://travis-ci.org/whiskers75/rockbox
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17:02:27gevaertsYou could build locally and upload the binaries, I guess
17:03:00whiskers75gevaerts: Yes, that's why I want an APT package.
17:03:07*whiskers75 tries building locally *again*
17:03:45gevaertsFeel free to provide the necessary build scripts. If they work well, we'll be happy to add them to the tree :)
17:04:09whiskers75All on my little repo - github.com/whiskers75/rockbox
17:04:46gevaertsI mean for deba
17:04:48gevaerts*debs
17:05:11whiskers75debs?
17:05:17gevaertsdeb packages
17:06:05whiskers75OK
17:06:27whiskers75i'll probably just do binaries
17:06:33gevaertsI'm not sure if we're interested in splitting up things to work around limitations elsewhere
17:07:02whiskers75gevaerts: I don't think so either
17:07:41whiskers75http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/#/c/375/ - 'Plug USB cable' makes no sense :)
17:08:33gevaertsMaybe, but to be honest, IMO neither does "Plugin USB cable" :)
17:08:58whiskers75gevaerts: "Plug in USB cable"? :)
17:09:08gevaertsThat might work
17:10:43whiskers75before_install: 'sudo ../tools/rockboxdevbinutils.sh > /dev/null' returned false. - Did I forget to chmod again? Yes!
17:12:49whiskers75Orde
17:12:55whiskers75oops
17:13:21whiskers75BTW, ordered a new sansa clip+ just for rockbox!
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18:45:42whiskers75FINALLY got through compilation of gcc. Now making Rockbox - whiskers75/rockbox/builds/3843354">https://travis-ci.org/whiskers75/rockbox/builds/3843354
18:45:49*whiskers75 is watching with anxiety
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18:47:01whiskers75IT WORKED
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20:09:18amayer_is there any support for headphones that have built in volume buttons?
20:09:20amayer_on the plug they have 3 contact rings instead of 2
20:09:22amayer_i tried googling this but it just kept giving me "pause on headphone unplug"
20:10:44 Join eckoit [0] (~ryan@50.65.10.24)
20:11:41amayer_example in case my definition wasnt good:
20:11:43amayer_http://www.case-parts.com/uploads/details/EAR-236B-1.jpg
20:12:58SuperBrainAKwell it depends if the hardware supports those
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20:14:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:15:25[Saint]Indeed, you can't just swap out headphones with inline control and expect it to work if the hardware just has a standard 3.5mm stereo jack
20:15:54[Saint]My iPod phones with inline volume work, ...in my iPods.
20:16:47SuperBrainAKi never had 4pin headphones to play with so i wouldnt know
20:17:52[Saint]I have both types, the single 3.5mm jack, and the older style with the 3.5mm jack and the remote port.
20:19:47amayer_[Saint]: i have an ipod classic. i know the hardware is there because ive used those phones with the OF
20:19:50amayer_but i tried it with rockbox and it didnt work
20:20:15amayer_is there a standard for vol up and vol down?
20:20:17amayer_the brand i tried was samsung not apple
20:20:58[Saint]....mine work.
20:21:07[Saint](Apple)
20:21:48[Saint]It wouldn't surprise me if the Samsung phones had an entirely different pinout
20:21:57[Saint]I've no idea.
20:25:15SuperBrainAKnot pinout but resistance for the signals
20:25:36SuperBrainAKlike having multiple buttons on one wire
20:26:54amayer_[Saint]: do you know where the code for this control would be?
20:27:02[Saint]IAP
20:27:50[Saint]...which is proprietary, and not very well known at all. Dock and accessory control is fairly poorly implemented because it is all guesswork.
20:30:04amayer_[Saint]: cant you just get a USB analizer and log all the data that goes back and forth between ipod and device?
20:30:06amayer_or does apple use some kind of encryption?
20:30:50[Saint]I really have no idea, it isn't an area I care particularly much about to be honest. I know that's not an ideal response.
20:31:11amayer_thats fine. im just curious
20:31:17[Saint]All I really know is "It's complicated".
20:31:25*SuperBrainAK would love to learn about that
20:31:29amayer_are you sure the headphone code is in IAP?
20:31:36gevaertsamayer_: not all IAP is USB
20:31:52[Saint]indeed.
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20:32:08amayer_i know there is a serial mode for some accessories
20:32:38[Saint]IAP can handle a bunch of stuff, it would be *awesome* to RE it.
20:33:13[Saint]I really like how some (Apple blessed) head units can pass a logo to the devices screen, or album art, or use it as a secondary display.
20:33:17[Saint]it's all very cool.
20:33:40amayer_[Saint]: i know for someone new to rockbox that it will probably be hard. but it is one of my long term goals to get IAP working
20:33:53SuperBrainAKwhat does iap stand for?
20:34:04gevaertsThere's a bunch of patches on gerrit waiting for someone to review them
20:34:08[Saint]iPod Accessory Protocol
20:34:09amayer_Interactive Apple Protocal?
20:34:20SuperBrainAKoh lol :D
20:34:47[Saint]gevaerts: aren't they waiting for a (fairly large?) overhaul?
20:34:59[Saint]I seem to recall there being some disagreements with implementation.
20:35:37gevaerts[Saint]: There's some unhappiness about the patch order, but at devcon we agreed not to block them on that
20:35:44amayer_[Saint]: i cant find the headphone code in here IAP.c
20:35:46amayer_it looks like alot of serial goop
20:35:58SuperBrainAKhttp://web.student.tuwien.ac.at/~e0026607/ipod_remote/ipod_ap.html
20:36:06SuperBrainAKthats what i found
20:38:29amayer_ive found some documentation too.
20:38:31amayer_I didnt take a whole lot of time looking at it but it seemed like the person had a lot of time fooling with it.
20:38:54[Saint]amayer_: ...I really don't know sorry.
20:39:17[Saint]I know my mini and my various 4Gs all play nice, but I haven't tried my Classic out.
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20:39:50amayer_ill have to fool with it after work
20:39:52[Saint]they have the double "headphone/remote port" plug.
20:40:18amayer_are ipods the only devices we support that use this?
20:40:28[Saint]IAP? Yes :)
20:40:41amayer_i was talking about the headphones
20:40:42[Saint]the I is the relevant part.
20:40:45gevaertsDid anyone actually spend time on getting iap to work on the classic?
20:41:04amayer_IAP doesnt work on the 6G
20:41:14[Saint]gevaerts: I'm not sure if it is implemented at all. Ms [Saint] uses it.
20:41:59[Saint]amayer_: no, A few other targets have remotes and/or inline controls.
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20:42:10[Saint]I can't list them all off the top of my head.
20:42:24amayer_i was just wondering if this was just an apple thing
20:42:58[Saint]AT least one target has no form of display *unless* it has the remote, iirc.
20:43:09SuperBrainAKare you shure those samsung buds are fully IAP compatable?
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20:43:37amayer_SuperBrainAK: thats what i was asking
20:43:41[Saint]SuperBrainAK: it wouldn't surprise me if those two didn't play nice together.
20:44:09SuperBrainAKare the buds made for the ipod or for a samsung product?
20:44:19amayer_samsumg phone
20:44:46[Saint]Does Samsung make any Apple-specific accessories?
20:44:52amayer_i wasnt sure if there was a standard or if everyone did their own thing
20:45:04SuperBrainAKi would say it is going to be using SAP :)
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20:47:34[Saint]amayer_: have you seen the older style iPod headphone accessory port? - http://guide-images.ifixit.net/igi/vNNW5HEbOIm6FvDI.medium
20:47:56[Saint]the accessory port is a 4-wire plug next to the 3.5mm out
20:48:11amayer_I remember those
20:48:35[Saint]I've no idea how it is handled in the newer iPods
20:50:22whiskers75When building GCC, I get the suffix error.
20:51:08[Saint]whiskers75: explain exactly what you're doing, and pastebin the output of the error.
20:51:20[Saint]that's a little too vague.
20:54:15amayer_[Saint]: what do you mean how its handled in the newer iPods? they dont have those plugs
20:54:35amayer_is that the plug you thought i was talking about?
20:55:14[Saint]No. I mean, I'm not sure how they're handling the inline control, as in, which ring is what, etc.
20:55:26[Saint]As obviously they merged these two ports at some point.
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20:56:46SuperBrainAKthe rings are from tip to cord, leftaudio, rightaudio, data/mic, return
20:57:22SuperBrainAKthat way it is still compatible with regular headphones
20:57:23amayer_SuperBrainAK: there are only 3 rings
20:57:51amayer_unless the tip is a ground and thats what your talking about
20:58:00*[Saint] nods
20:58:27SuperBrainAKno the tip of a headphone jack is left
20:58:43SuperBrainAKand the last ring is return
21:00
21:00:04SuperBrainAKi dont understand where you guys are getting that from :/
21:00:41[Saint]getting what, sorry?
21:01:27[Saint]I nodded at an inopportune time. The info I'm digging up points to you having it dead right, I didn't notice amayer_ commented in between.
21:02:21SuperBrainAKactually im sorta wrong switch the mic/data with ground
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21:03:00SuperBrainAKhttp://appleinsider.com/articles/07/12/20/using_ipodiphone_video_out_background_and_in_depth_review/page/2
21:03:03amayer_SuperBrainAK: Im not looking it up anywhere. I took some old headphones apart before and i guess i misunderstood what i was looking at
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21:03:18amayer_(this was a couple of months ago)
21:03:52[Saint]Hum, the internet lied to me...I turned up the same pinout you did originally.
21:04:00SuperBrainAKthose were 3 ring they didnt have the extra ring for data
21:04:16[Saint]Lies on the interweb...well, I'll never.
21:04:35SuperBrainAKi guess you cant ever know untill you do it yourself
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21:05:22SuperBrainAKi never physically tested the ipod cable but i do know the audio for fact
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21:05:55SuperBrainAKyou can easily test with the video cable and a continuity tester
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22:14:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:51:19amayer_is ogg album art supported?
22:51:24amayer_(embedded)
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22:54:39amayer_from what i read here:
22:54:41amayer_http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AlbumArt
22:54:43amayer_it is but it doesnt show up on my player(and i use EasyTAG... mentioned in the documentation)
22:55:45gevaertshttp://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-iriverh300/rockbox-buildap2.html#x18-369000B.2.1
22:56:13*gevaerts doesn't see how http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AlbumArt says that embedded ogg vorbis album art is supported
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22:59:08amayer_gevaerts: i wasnt saying because the application that i use is mentioned means its supported.
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23:00:04amayer_I was just letting you know that i use EasyTAG. because my next logical question if someone asked about embeded album art would be "what are you embedding it with"
23:00:25N3TN0helllo
23:00:26gevaertsAnyway, it's not, IIRC because large tags are tricky to handle for ogg vorbis
23:01:18amayer_...well thats no good
23:01:26amayer_gevaerts: thank you
23:02:42N3TN0have read tht recording is possible on ipod nano 2nd gen but without gain adn other feats
23:02:50N3TN0is there anyway i can get this
23:02:56N3TN0not in dev build
23:04:11N3TN0 http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodStatus
23:04:16N3TN0hello?
23:05:12N3TN0am new to irc if this is showing up plze respond
23:05:18N3TN0not sure if im doing this right
23:05:19gevaertsN3TN0: as far as I can see recording is disabled on nano2g builds.
23:05:20N3TN0...
23:05:40N3TN0is there anyway to enable it thorugh a dev build
23:05:40gevaertsI don't know if this is because recording requires homemade hardware or because it just doesn't work
23:06:35N3TN0the page says that it is in progress and that basic funcioning is availiable but certian features are unavialiable
23:06:51N3TN0"Basic recording functionality (line-in and mic on the 4g and Color/Photo, line-in only on the 5g) is working and is in CVS but is missing important features such as gain control and selection of different samplerates. The current code also breaks playback after a recording is made."
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23:10:09gevaertsOK, more research seems to show that recording for the nano2g is not implemented at all yet, so no, there's no easy way to get it to work
23:10:38[Saint]amayer_: if have a script that strips embedded album art out of tracks and replaces it with a 'cover.jpg' file.
23:10:47[Saint]...if you want, I could dig it up for you.
23:11:23N3TN0gevaerts: ok, thnks anyway
23:12:16amayer_[Saint]: I can do that with EasyTag... Its not a huge issue. I just wanted to make sure it wasnt a bug that the album artwork isnt showing up
23:13:30[Saint]I shoulod clarify, the script takes four values, well three really with an optional tag for one: source_dir; source_dir_recurseive; destination_dir; and fill_amount
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23:14:23[Saint]Basically, you tell it which directory on the host to copy from, whether or not to go into subdirectories, the destination of the files to be copied, and the amount (in MB) of files to copy.
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23:51:16ItsMeAgainSo So my iPod Classic 6th generation, as warned, now refuses to mount. I cleared the settings, and looked around a bit on the net to no resource. Any possible solutions?

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