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#rockbox log for 2013-01-02

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00:17:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:10:42saratogawhats needed to add the R0 to the build system?
01:14:24lebelliumheh? There have been official R0 RB builds for a long time
01:14:51 Quit soap_ (Quit: Leaving)
01:18:58 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
01:19:33[Saint]saratoga: a way to compile the toolchain that isn't batshit crazy.
01:19:56[Saint]...and, is actually possible on 64bit Ubuntu (I can't frick'in do it...)
01:21:09 Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
01:24:10saratogalebellium: its not in the build system yet I think?
01:24:29saratogaoh wait it is
01:24:40lebelliumfor 1 year I guess
01:24:56saratogasomehow i didn't see it in the table
01:25:26saratogathe install directions should link to that instead of telling users to compile their own
01:26:22saratogaoh i'm mistaken again, it says to compile an install tool
01:28:35[Saint]the installation/compilation process is (puts on his careful wording hat) ..."non trivial".
01:29:44[Saint]It's the toolchain that pisses me off. Primarily the metric f*ckton of undocumented dependencies.
01:30:21[Saint]It's pretty much "start"; it out for yourself.
01:31:40[Saint]To be honest, I didn't shed much of a tear when I managed to brick my R0, because of this.
01:33:03lebelliumyou have a R0?!
01:33:29[Saint]A dead one, yep.
01:33:37lebelliumbricked doesn't mean dead
01:33:55[Saint]It does if you're using the "real" definition of the word.
01:34:30lebelliumI assume you already looked at that?
01:34:56[Saint]Yeah, no's *dead* dead.
01:36:41[Saint]There's a /chance/ I botched the cable, but my measurements all said it should work.
01:36:45[Saint]I rebuilt it twice.e
01:37:11[Saint]I cannot get any response from the player at all...she's gone.
01:38:09[Saint]It did manage to brick itself during installation, but, I'm not blaming Rockbox for this...I've been here far too long for that :)
01:38:20saratogainstall on the R0 using the modified rom files on ABI looks really simple
01:38:46lebelliumI did not believe that is possible. R0 is very easy to brick but almost impossible to kill
01:39:07*[Saint] has a history of being an exception to certain rules
01:40:48 Quit bertrik (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
01:41:49lebelliumyeah with the modified ROM it's very easy but that can't be the official Rockbox installation way so...
02:17:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:41:32 Join timofonic [0] (~timofonic@unaffiliated/timofonic)
02:41:59timofonicAnyone can reommend me a rockbox-compatible device that is available to buy it these days and is relatively cheap?
02:42:09JdGordonsansa clip
02:42:28[Saint]iff you like tiny, barely usable displays...sure, that's a good option.
02:42:39[Saint]Fuze is the go, IMO.
02:42:50timofonic[Saint]: What's the approximate cost?
02:43:00[Saint]What locale?
02:43:06timofonic[Saint]: Spain, Europe
02:43:25timofonic[Saint]: But I can buy it in Germany if the difference is considerate, for example
02:44:14[Saint]~45 EUR
02:44:26timofonicDansa Fuze+ ?
02:44:32[Saint]No, Fuze.
02:44:45timofonicWhy not Fuze+? No properly supported?
02:45:06[Saint]Because you said "relatively cheap" was a criteria.
02:45:18timofonicoh, yes
02:46:18SuperBrainAKi would never reccomend thefuze
02:46:26timofonicSuperBrainAK: Why?
02:46:34SuperBrainAKfuze +
02:46:45[Saint]The weird touch-pad is...."interesting".
02:46:49timofonicSuperBrainAK: And plain Fuze is better?
02:47:09SuperBrainAKits verry buggy and has a verry short battery life
02:47:22timofonicSuperBrainAK: The Fuze+?
02:47:28[Saint]SuperBrainAK: that won't always be the case, though.
02:47:32SuperBrainAKyes it is even though ive only had a sansa clip+
02:47:58[Saint]When I take player recomendations into consideration, I don't usually make it a point to consider the state of the port.
02:48:00SuperBrainAKfuze is good, fuze+ is bad
02:48:06[Saint]As that isn't something that is fixed.
02:48:20timofonic[Saint]: TOO BAD
02:48:35SuperBrainAKwell even with the OF of the fuze+ it is buggy
02:48:38timofonic[Saint]: If rockbox isn't properly ported, then why use it?
02:48:56SuperBrainAKbecause it is so much better
02:49:09SuperBrainAKeven with bugs
02:49:18timofonicSuperBrainAK: What?
02:49:42timofonicSuperBrainAK: You aren't explaining the proper reasons, why should be better even with bugs? It doesn't make sense to me
02:50:05[Saint]In many cases we outperform the original firmware even with bugs.
02:50:22SuperBrainAKbecause the things that do work make up for any of the bugs it has
02:50:29timofonic[Saint]: Are there a comparison / analysis table?
02:50:37[Saint]for what?
02:51:10timofonic[Saint]: Did you find the Fuze over ebay? It's damn populated with Fuze Plus :/
02:51:16[Saint]For runtime and codec performance, there are partially completed lists.
02:51:40SuperBrainAKits like vlc on an mp3 :)
02:51:53timofonicWhy using a standalone player rather than an Android device? :P
02:52:17[Saint]'re the one that asked for a stanalone player.
02:52:19[Saint]you tell us.
02:52:37[Saint]You're free to run the Android port if you want.
02:52:42timofonic[Saint]: Indeed. I was talking about advantages, I was planning it
02:53:06SuperBrainAKi am going to get an android for that verry reason
02:53:51timofonicSuperBrainAK: cellphone or what?
02:54:13SuperBrainAKyes a cellphone
02:54:21[Saint]timofonic: and, no...I didn't, but there are many Fuzes on eBay.
02:54:28[Saint]second-hand, refurbished, new.
02:54:31[Saint]...there's lots.
02:54:36timofonicSuperBrainAK: That's up 100-200 eur price range if having Android 4.x, I suposse
02:55:06*SuperBrainAK quickly ponders if he will ever get a tablet, eh nope
02:55:17timofonic[Saint]: The similar name with Fuze+ makes it difficult to locate. I tried to do -"fuze+" -plus but the results got none :P
02:55:20*[Saint] ponders keeping this on topic
02:55:39[Saint]timofonic: well, there's a lot of them on there.
02:56:02timofonic[Saint]: Yes, but how did you locate them? I'm little used to find over ebay these days :P
02:57:24[Saint]The trick is looking past the first possible suggestion ;)
02:57:53[Saint]I'm on page 3 and I have counted about 10 for sale now.
02:58:44timofonic[Saint]: Uhm? There's just two pages there, maybe the ones that send to Spain are too few (I did buy stuff from Germany in theory only sent within Germany, but finally sent to me after a bit of social engineering)
03:00:45[Saint]this is getting quite offtopic. change to .com and you shouldn't have that problem.
03:02:25timofonic[Saint]: No viable option shipping from USA to Spain, but OK. If you consider it's offtopic it's ok, but having a viable device to use Rockbox on it is interesting to me :)
03:02:56timofonic[Saint]: Anyway, it seems I'm not welcomed to talk about it so I'll stop discussing it. Sorry if I caused any kind of annoyances...
03:02:57[Saint]Supported devices are fine, why you can't find them on ebay however... ;)
03:04:58 Quit guymann (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
03:05:44timofonic[Saint]: If I can't find a viable platform to run Rockbox on, then Rockbox is virtually not available to me. I see it that way, a very interested and curious developer can be geeky enough to dig over internet to buy one but not the majority
03:06:04timofonic[Saint]: It's not pragmatic at all in my POV
03:06:16SuperBrainAKyou can always use the simulators
03:06:31timofonicSuperBrainAK: For what?
03:07:08[Saint]I see your point, but that doesn't change the fact. We can talk all day about supported players if you want, but holding your hand while you find them for sale is outside the scope of this channel.
03:07:13SuperBrainAKwell you wanted rockbox
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03:07:41timofonic[Saint]: It's OK
03:08:07timofonic[Saint]: But the matter of Rockbox is to be used, or just a geeks toy? ;)
03:08:37SuperBrainAKuse and toy what more can you want?
03:09:44[Saint]I'm not sure why it is you think that assisting users in finding ROckboxable devices is inside the scope of this channel, but, it isn't. So, we'll stop this, shall we?
03:10:36timofonic[Saint]: Well, not the channel itself. You are OK, but making it easy in the website could benefit both adopting Rockbox and also more devs involved too :)
03:10:41timofonicBut, it's ok and sorry
03:12:32[Saint]That's the somewhat confusing part about Rockbox for new users. It isn't a product. It is a hobby. There's no marketing. If users find it, use it, and like it...that is great, but it is mostly made by developers for developers.
03:13:03timofonic[Saint]: It's a hobby, but hobbies should get accesible to new users too if want to be alive ;)
03:13:30timofonic[Saint]: Look at OpenWRT, for example...
03:13:31[Saint]I don't see how we are stopping anyone from adopting it. If you can, tell us how.
03:13:34SuperBrainAKlets just say it isnt exactly for newbs
03:14:03SuperBrainAKor people who get confuzed easily
03:14:35timofonic[Saint]: It's just basic marketing, to try to support a range of easily accesible and nice devices. But I agree it's difficult on a device of this nature, of course
03:15:11[Saint]That comes back to my point about Rockbox not being a product. And there being no marketing.
03:15:14timofonic[Saint]: A partner with some device maker that make ones that doesn't suck and also hear community suggestions could be great, but that could make the project less agnostic too
03:15:19[Saint]I wasn't joking when I said that.
03:15:38timofonic[Saint]: OpenWRT isn't a product too
03:15:50[Saint]If people find and use it, great. But we waste no effort forcing this.
03:16:17timofonic[Saint]: Interested third parties could do the commercial part and adopt Rockbox as their official firmware, for example
03:16:49timofonicBut sorry, it seems I'm getting too annoying for being a new one here...
03:17:02SuperBrainAKi would do that if i ever made my own mp3
03:17:49timofonicSuperBrainAK: The thing is that is a sucessful strategy with network routers in OpenWRT, look at Asus and their "AsusWRT"
03:18:30[Saint]Except, surprisingly, major device manufacturers like making money. Which becomes VERY hard to do if anyone else has all your "secrets", and any manufacturer that decided to use Rockbox would need to honor the license agreement.
03:19:11[Saint]Rockbox parnering with a major device vendor is *very* unlikely.
03:19:51timofonicI see very funny about a *king audio player having any secrets at all, but well
03:20:47[Saint]They have many. Telling everyone how you do what you do doesn't make any money.
03:21:06timofonicWorld sucks :P
03:22:33scorche`going to take the forums down for a bit - needs some updating...
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03:26:39scorche`backup snapshot in progress...
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03:39:40[Saint]Is it deliberate (I assume so) that I can't add that I have tested my own commit to gerrit?
03:40:21[Saint]Code review I understand, but notsomuch the testing.
03:41:32JdGordonwell, that should be assumed you've tested it
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03:42:05*[Saint] ha's a giant Ha! :)
03:42:19scorcheforums taken out of maintenance mode - please go check to make sure that things work fine
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03:58:09*[Saint] wonders about the official spelling of Rockbox
03:58:23[Saint]The logo is quite clearly ROCKbox
03:58:38[Saint]yet everywhere else, it is "Rockbox" or "rockbox"
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04:04:10soapWhy hasn't a tone generator plugin been written yet? I ask this question not because I expect someone else to do it, but it seems like such an obvious plugin I wonder if it would be a difficult one to do for some covert reason and that's why there isn't one.
04:04:57[Saint]Because the pople that require it already have the ability to generate tones?
04:05:05[Saint]<wild guess>
04:05:44soapIF that is the reason it is a reason I can live with.
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04:06:10JdGordoni cant tihnk of any reason it isnt feasable
04:06:13JdGordondo you want it?
04:06:13[Saint]It may well not be, it is just what came to mind when I considered it.
04:07:42saratogaif you don't care about efficiency, you can just call math.h's cos function and pass the PCM out
04:07:52saratogai guess the UI is probably the most complex part
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04:17:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:34:01soapJdGordon, saratoga just curious. Do I want it? Yes. I would make a nice C project for me.
04:48:30saratogago for it
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12:12:26webguest50Need help with tagnavi_custom.config,42541.0.html
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13:55:13cela[timofonic] Fuze+ is not that bad. I just modify the source code for the keypad to remove most of the function apart from the navigation and make my own build, then it's way better, thats the beauty of ROCKbox!
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15:19:03CultistI just want to say that I love Rockbox and thanks for all the work you guys do
15:19:36Tornemuch appreciated :)
15:30:39amayer_Torne: did you get a change to look at my stuff on gerrit yet?
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15:46:02TorneOh, forgot about it over the break ;?
15:46:10TorneI'll go take a look in a few mins
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19:38:52lorenzo92[Saint]: unbelivable!! I bricked it, flashed it sooo many times ^^ humhumhum
19:39:54lorenzo92you should track down your serial number, since we have seen that a stock of R0 *may* have serious nand problems...
19:40:12lorenzo92by the way: does it show up as "Blank SE Marley" device in windows?
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