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| 00:18:08 | moben | If you got any other idea how to do this, I'd be quite happy too |
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| 01:17:40 | JdGordon | [Saint]: ? |
| 01:18:35 | [Saint] | moben has some form of issue with an .sbs failing but giving no debug output in the sim, and passing checkwps. |
| 01:18:39 | [Saint] | I can't figure it out. |
| 01:20:41 | JdGordon | oh cool, i'll have a look later tonight hopefully if all the info is there |
| 01:20:50 | JdGordon | fonts al available? |
| 01:21:13 | [Saint] | yep, it's all in the logs. It's set up to use the current userfont, nothing special. |
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| 03:23:22 | the-kyle | It's still a crapple apple. |
| 03:24:03 | the-kyle | The Apple motto: You cannot, You may not, you will not, we won't let you. |
| 03:24:43 | the-kyle | The readers Digest version of the Apple motto: sorry. |
| 03:26:29 | [Saint] | just checking, you know what channel you're in? |
| 03:27:17 | the-kyle | Looks like I accidentally switched tabs. Sorry. |
| 03:27:59 | derf | the-kyle: http://worrydream.com/Apple/ |
| 03:28:48 | the-kyle | That stuff was not only supposed to go in a different channel, but also a different server. :/ |
| 03:29:07 | the-kyle | Can't figure out how it got here, as I didn't switch tabs. |
| 03:30:50 | [Saint] | It happens to the best of us. But, occasionally, people do just blurt out seemingly offtopic material so I thought I'd give you a heads up :) |
| 03:31:12 | the-kyle | Thanks hehehehe. |
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| 06:44:51 | zamboni | what headphones ya guys use |
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| 12:59:31 | makoto | does the ipod mini build of rockbox spin down the microdrive and make use of the flash buffer? |
| 13:00 |
| 13:01:54 | n1s | yes it spins down the drive on every hd based player, some even have the ability to power down the disk, not sure about the mini there |
| 13:02:47 | makoto | i do recall seeing a patch floating about for the compactflash mods |
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| 13:26:31 | bluebrother | stock Rockbox works fine for me on a Mini with CF mod. |
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| 13:45:18 | makoto | sweeet. |
| 13:47:18 | makoto | just curious how efficient the 32mb flash buffer is when dealing with large files |
| 13:48:18 | n1s | it reads in as much data as fits in the buffer and then spins down the disk, the size of each file doesn't matter |
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| 13:54:02 | gevaerts | What flash buffer are you talking about? |
| 13:54:16 | gevaerts | There's storage, which is disk or flash, and there's RAM |
| 13:54:28 | n1s | i was assuming the ram buffer :) |
| 13:54:54 | gevaerts | RAM is 32MB on the mini, of which a large part (28MB or so?) is reserved for buffering audio, but that doesn't change depending on type of storage |
| 13:55:46 | gevaerts | And yes, flash is expected to be more power-efficient than disk, in part due to the lack of power-hungry spin-up, but not all CF cards are equal |
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| 14:58:21 | kugel | JdGordon: did you see my question? |
| 15:00 |
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| 15:39:12 | cela | RK27xx Port. There is an audio bug introduced around b19b250, a popping sound in the background after about 30 seconds of playing an mp3, rolled back the change in system-rk27xx.c, rebuilt and it's ok on my generic rk27xx pmp. Suggest making the change only applicable to HiFiman port, Should I file a bug report? |
| 15:40:25 | gevaerts | Probably |
| 15:42:31 | cela | Ok. I'll give mortalis or wodz chance to pick up on this first, cheers. |
| 15:43:49 | | Quit cela (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF)) |
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| 15:52:32 | pamaury | we should have asked him to bisect |
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| 16:00 |
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| 16:05:53 | | Quit theli_ua (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 16:10:24 | [Saint] | makoto: if you watch our gerrit tracker, I'll post a patch that detects the storage type and disables irrelevant options like spindown et al. |
| 16:11:18 | [Saint] | It isn't necessary to do so, setting these settings won't confuse the target if you change the storage type...but it can be confusing to users who don't realize the setting(s) no longer apply. |
| 16:12:20 | * | [Saint] is also reminded he has CE-ATA detection for Classic battery capacity guessing to push |
| 16:12:32 | makoto | hmmm |
| 16:12:37 | | Quit stripwax (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 16:13:10 | makoto | the only reason im thinking of this, is that my ipod (with the OF at the moment) is quite laggy and crashy |
| 16:13:51 | [Saint] | The OF might get all different types of confused...I don't know what storage type assumptions it makes. |
| 16:14:03 | [Saint] | I strip the OF from my ipods, personally. |
| 16:14:56 | | Quit psilonux (Quit: Leaving) |
| 16:15:22 | [Saint] | Rockbox can definitely handle the storage type changing, though. The only side effect is slightly confused settings that will no longer apply: |
| 16:15:32 | [Saint] | spindown, antiskip buffer. |
| 16:18:11 | makoto | yeah |
| 16:18:21 | makoto | i'm about to rockbox mine now |
| 16:19:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:22:55 | [Saint] | Ah, congratulations. You'll love it. |
| 16:23:12 | [Saint] | A CF'd Mini is a very fine thing. |
| 16:23:28 | * | [Saint] <3's his |
| 16:33:46 | makoto | done :D |
| 16:34:10 | makoto | my sansa fuze died about 6 months ago, and i really missed rockbox |
| 16:34:55 | makoto | i was very very careless when i redid my battery and had a look round the microdrive |
| 16:35:29 | makoto | i somehow managed to fracture the solder joints for the connector on the disk ribbon :/ |
| 16:35:47 | makoto | not great with the soldering iron but i somehow managed to fix it |
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| 16:45:45 | | Join jeoj [0] (~fonkey@212-226-57-175-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 16:46:16 | makoto | hrmm, not thought of this now, but, turning the ipod off? there's no sleep like in the OF, right? |
| 16:46:23 | | Join eckoit [0] (~ryan@50.65.10.24) |
| 16:46:29 | AlexP | correct |
| 16:48:41 | jeoj | hey |
| 16:48:44 | jeoj | i'm a total beginner |
| 16:48:46 | jeoj | so bear with me |
| 16:49:20 | jeoj | can someone tell me right off the bat, is there a way to put some kind of a scrobble logger to my sony nwz-s615f? |
| 16:49:53 | [Saint] | If that isn't a supported Rockbox target, ..."no". |
| 16:50:02 | [Saint] | where "no" == "almost certainly not". |
| 16:50:08 | makoto | hrmm, no way to change backlight's brightness lavel? |
| 16:50:16 | jeoj | you shouldn't compare strings like that, but ok |
| 16:50:32 | jeoj | bummer |
| 16:50:34 | | Quit eckoit (Client Quit) |
| 16:50:47 | makoto | smells like time to have a play with the source and learn some code. |
| 16:51:06 | AlexP | makoto: On most targets yes, no idea about the classic |
| 16:51:09 | | Join Janslike [0] (Janslike@ip-66-159-124-20.dsl.csolve.net) |
| 16:51:13 | [Saint] | Settings - General - Display - LCD Settings - Brightness iirc |
| 16:51:27 | [Saint] | AlexP: Mini |
| 16:51:38 | AlexP | oh, not sure where I got classic from |
| 16:51:45 | Janslike | For a Sandisk Clip +, how long will it typically take to initialize the database for 29gb? |
| 16:51:52 | [Saint] | Probably my comment earlier. |
| 16:51:54 | Janslike | Roughly 1300 files |
| 16:51:58 | makoto | i can only find contrast |
| 16:52:25 | [Saint] | Ah, right, I forgot about that. Contrast and brightness are basically interchangeable in this context. |
| 16:52:59 | Janslike | Wait scratch that, 4268 files exactly |
| 16:53:03 | makoto | contrast has no effect on the brightness of the LEDs |
| 16:54:18 | [Saint] | Oh dear, I am getting confused. I thought it did fade the backlight as well. |
| 16:54:41 | [Saint] | We can fade the backlight on the Mini I'm pretty sure, it fades in/out when it turns off. |
| 16:55:10 | makoto | yeah- theres fade in/out |
| 16:55:18 | gevaerts | Janslike: hard to say. Not *too* long though |
| 16:55:19 | makoto | and you can control how long you want it to fade in/out for |
| 16:55:28 | makoto | so there must be some kind of control over it |
| 16:55:44 | makoto | this was an idea that came to me last night in bed in a pitch black room. |
| 16:56:26 | [Saint] | looks like the mini doesn't have hardware backlight control. |
| 16:56:32 | [Saint] | ...I wonder why I thought it did? |
| 16:57:20 | [Saint] | using software to fake a brightness setting for more than a few seconds at a time would likely fall into the "bad things" category. |
| 16:57:41 | [Saint] | cpu/battery intensive. |
| 16:57:50 | Janslike | If it seems to be taking exceptionally long, is there any way to know if it's broken or still doing its thing? |
| 16:58:04 | Janslike | Right now it says "Building database... 120" |
| 16:58:23 | makoto | ohhh |
| 16:58:32 | makoto | interesting. |
| 16:58:33 | [Saint] | Janslike: if it hasn't incremented the counter in some minutes, and hasn't finished, it's stuck. |
| 16:58:55 | [Saint] | you can reboot (this is perfectly safe) and enable metadata logging fom the debug menu and try again. |
| 16:59:18 | | Quit kevku (Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/) |
| 16:59:30 | [Saint] | then, when/if it fails again, there will be a log of where it got stuck written to the root of the disk. |
| 16:59:41 | [Saint] | (hopefully) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:06 | makoto | ahh, done by pwm. |
| 17:00:17 | makoto | i guess i'll grab the source code and do |
| 17:00:18 | [Saint] | The likely scenario is it is choking on some bad metadata tags in a certain file. |
| 17:00:42 | Janslike | 462 |
| 17:00:47 | Janslike | hrm |
| 17:00:52 | makoto | do "bad things". i only want it on for a few seconds and dimly so it shouldn't be a massive problem if i do it properly. |
| 17:01:07 | Janslike | maybe that's deerhoof |
| 17:01:37 | [Saint] | the number of files listed in the database count can be confusing. |
| 17:01:48 | [Saint] | It is listing *every* file it finds, not just media. |
| 17:02:12 | [Saint] | that's why the number can seem way off at times. |
| 17:02:15 | | Part jeoj |
| 17:02:20 | Janslike | Ah well I have foobar set up so it only transfers the music |
| 17:02:32 | Janslike | Getting stuck on SYL weird have to double check that |
| 17:03:06 | gevaerts | There are a few hundred files in .rockbox. Those also appear in the count |
| 17:03:25 | [Saint] | Janslike: sorry, did I parse that correctly? You're stripping the metadata from your audio? |
| 17:03:38 | Janslike | Oh right yeah forgot about those |
| 17:03:53 | Janslike | Oh no I thought you meant like, exteraneous folder.jpgs etc |
| 17:05:34 | [Saint] | Ok, damn, then. :) I thought that was going to be an easy answer. |
| 17:05:49 | Janslike | stuck at 1948 this time |
| 17:05:54 | Janslike | I think it's just being stubborn |
| 17:07:46 | | Join kevku [0] (x@2001:470:dcc6:0:69:69:69:69) |
| 17:09:23 | Janslike | Stuck at 2112, now 60 |
| 17:12:04 | Janslike | It reads the files perfectly though |
| 17:12:20 | * | [Saint] would advise checking the filesystem |
| 17:14:43 | Janslike | ??? In what way |
| 17:14:51 | | Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...) |
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| 17:16:42 | | Join Rower85 [0] (husvagn@v-413-alfarv-177.bitnet.nu) |
| 17:17:00 | [Saint] | Depends on your operating system. |
| 17:17:05 | [Saint] | Win: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-NZ/windows-vista/Check-your-hard-disk-for-errors |
| 17:17:08 | | Join kevku [0] (x@2001:470:dcc6:0:69:69:69:69) |
| 17:17:14 | [Saint] | unix: http://linux.die.net/man/8/fsck.vfat |
| 17:18:29 | pamaury | our metadata parsers are supposed to withstand all sorts of funny things but it seems that users always come up with new ones :) Bad filesystem seems more likely though |
| 17:19:41 | Janslike | Windows didn't come up with anything |
| 17:19:47 | [Saint] | I started to think so when it wasn't failing in a repeatable way, yes. |
| 17:20:05 | [Saint] | Hum, well. This is fun. |
| 17:20:25 | [Saint] | What are the files in question? Are they some less-than-common or exotic format? |
| 17:21:20 | Janslike | All V0 MP3 |
| 17:21:41 | | Part theli_ua ("Залишаю") |
| 17:21:59 | Janslike | 4055 at 28gb |
| 17:22:22 | [Saint] | One thing you can try is to wipe out the existing (if any) .tcd files in /.rockbox |
| 17:22:50 | [Saint] | just to make sure there's no damaged portion of a previous database leftover. |
| 17:26:51 | Janslike | right, sorry, played a bit of doomf.wad |
| 17:27:03 | Janslike | No wonder I couldn't find my way around, completely new map |
| 17:32:31 | [Saint] | You can play /almost/ any .wad files |
| 17:32:51 | [Saint] | Anything that loads in the freedoom project should "just work" there also. |
| 17:35:12 | Janslike | Froze up when I was browsing |
| 17:36:55 | Janslike | I'll try a sector scan though |
| 17:37:10 | Janslike | I mean, I guess it's pointing towards a problem with the microsd |
| 17:37:24 | Janslike | Which is depressing if true |
| 17:41:58 | [Saint] | easy to test. |
| 17:42:09 | [Saint] | eject the card. |
| 17:43:16 | | Join SuperBrainAK [0] (~Andy@71-36-165-101.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 17:46:21 | Janslike | Databased 100 tracks without problem |
| 17:46:33 | Janslike | I'm gonna leave it and come back in 2-3 min |
| 17:54:16 | Janslike | I turned on auto-update and load to RAM and that fixed it |
| 17:54:49 | Janslike | If it has any further problems playing the files now I know why at least. Hopefully that won't happen. Anyways thanks for the help and have a good day |
| 17:54:59 | | Quit Janslike (Quit: Hello) |
| 17:55:52 | [Saint] | that doesn't seem to make any sense at all. :-S |
| 17:57:42 | | Join stripwax [0] (~Miranda@rockbox/developer/stripwax) |
| 17:58:12 | | Quit stripwax (Client Quit) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:19:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:22:19 | | Quit mc2739 (Quit: leaving) |
| 18:32:19 | | Join eckoit [0] (~ryan@50.65.10.24) |
| 18:32:28 | | Join pretty_function [0] (~sigBART@123.252.215.27) |
| 18:36:48 | | Quit SuperBrainAK (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) |
| 18:38:30 | | Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:38:47 | | Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 18:39:53 | | Quit Guest31500 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 18:42:55 | | Join mc2739 [0] (~mc2739@rockbox/developer/mc2739) |
| 18:45:30 | | Join zamboni [0] (~bottledwa@unaffiliated/zamboni) |
| 18:58:14 | | Join Raptors [0] (~Raptors@dsl-173-248-193-236.acanac.net) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:06:02 | | Quit nateloaf (Quit: Leaving.) |
| 19:11:38 | bluebrother | Writing an image using libpng isn't hard at all. Nice. |
| 19:15:09 | | Quit Belzebub (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 19:19:24 | | Join Belzebub [0] (~torrentow@195.117.144.66) |
| 19:26:35 | | Join Guest79668 [0] (~wardormeu@176-120-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr) |
| 19:27:34 | Guest79668 | JdGordon: Hi, i'm having a question about FS #12124 aka list-skinned |
| 19:27:35 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12124 draw lists using skin engine (patches, closed) |
| 19:28:20 | Guest79668 | does it requires a specific compilation? How does "old school" themes reacts to it? |
| 19:28:49 | [Saint] | It requires no compilation (note, it's closed). |
| 19:28:58 | [Saint] | It's in HEAD currently. |
| 19:29:09 | [Saint] | And, old themes don;t rwact to it, at all. |
| 19:29:16 | [Saint] | *don't react |
| 19:30:05 | Guest79668 | So, may i ask if there is a functionnal theme implementing it that could be tested? |
| 19:30:30 | AlexP | Guest79668: A theme contains tags, if it doesn't contain a tag then it won't try to use it |
| 19:30:33 | [Saint] | http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1543&target=gigabeatfx |
| 19:30:55 | [Saint] | That is the only known example of skinned lists actually working, afaik. |
| 19:31:06 | Guest79668 | Thanks a lot |
| 19:31:09 | [Saint] | and it took quite some degree of hackery iirc. |
| 19:31:17 | [Saint] | gevaerts is quite proud of that one. |
| 19:31:44 | Guest79668 | I was working on some grid menu, and then saw that skinned-list.c. That was a way better idea |
| 19:33:13 | [Saint] | afaik there's no way to do a grid type menu without skinned lists. |
| 19:33:13 | Guest79668 | Thanks a lot [Saint] :) |
| 19:33:33 | AlexP | I did a grid menu with skinned lists |
| 19:33:35 | Guest79668 | i did, but i broke the whole list concept, and was about to write the callback function |
| 19:33:45 | AlexP | Worked quite well on non-touchscreen |
| 19:33:56 | AlexP | I had some problems with scrolling on touchscreen IIRC |
| 19:34:00 | [Saint] | Ah, I meant with the theme language. Editing the core doesn;t count :) |
| 19:34:32 | Guest79668 | AlexP : any link out there? :p |
| 19:34:48 | AlexP | I don't remember if I uploaded it, I might have done in the forums |
| 19:34:56 | AlexP | Or given a link at least |
| 19:35:04 | Guest79668 | k, gonna search ;) |
| 19:35:16 | AlexP | I can't remember though, sorry |
| 19:35:35 | Guest79668 | nop, thanks both of you, that was quite an help :) |
| 19:36:08 | | Quit nosa-j (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
| 19:37:44 | * | gevaerts recommends looking at http://themes.rockbox.org/index.php?themeid=1535&target=gigabeatfx instead |
| 19:38:03 | [Saint] | Ah, I forgot about that one. |
| 19:38:06 | [Saint] | thanks gevaerts |
| 19:38:12 | gevaerts | Wavy is really more of an experiment to see how far I could go, which probably isn't too helpful |
| 19:38:34 | gevaerts | [Saint]: you can do grids |
| 19:38:49 | gevaerts | You just have to say ",grid" somewhere in one of the tags |
| 19:38:49 | [Saint] | I know. |
| 19:39:02 | gevaerts | Oh |
| 19:39:06 | * | gevaerts learns to read |
| 19:39:11 | [Saint] | I said no way to do it *without* skinned lists. |
| 19:39:15 | [Saint] | :) |
| 19:40:44 | | Join nosa-j [0] (~m00k@184.76.254.130) |
| 19:42:56 | Guest79668 | and can you navigate into the grid with up and down for lines? |
| 19:43:37 | gevaerts | Grid really works best on touchscreens |
| 19:44:13 | gevaerts | Only the display changes, not the controls |
| 19:44:21 | Guest79668 | yep, though about it |
| 19:44:54 | Guest79668 | even by remapping, it would need a bit of extra code |
| 19:49:30 | | Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@62.83.50.196.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 19:49:40 | Guest79668 | Well, thanks a lot, gonna study those examples ;) |
| 19:49:59 | | Part Guest79668 |
| 19:53:53 | * | [Saint] wonders why plugins and shortcuts don't have a red leading char |
| 19:54:11 | [Saint] | gevaerts: ^ |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:07:46 | | Join Ward [0] (~Mirandaha@176-120-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr) |
| 20:08:10 | | Nick Ward is now known as Guest94269 (~Mirandaha@176-120-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr) |
| 20:09:34 | | Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 20:10:46 | gevaerts | [Saint]: You mean the %?cs? |
| 20:11:42 | [Saint] | In the main menu, neither Plugins nor Shortcuts has the red leading char. |
| 20:11:54 | [Saint] | ...I can't figure out the significance. |
| 20:11:58 | gevaerts | Ah, right :) |
| 20:12:24 | * | gevaerts considers not giving away the secret :) |
| 20:13:02 | [Saint] | Pffffft! not that secret, I could just look. I'm just lazy :) |
| 20:13:07 | gevaerts | It's because red means the leading letter is different from the previous line |
| 20:13:33 | [Saint] | IS there no way to disable that per-screen? |
| 20:13:41 | [Saint] | Seems like yo ucould've checked for that. |
| 20:13:50 | [Saint] | ...unless it's wanted? |
| 20:14:23 | [Saint] | I know why you want it in playlists, and directories etc. |
| 20:17:06 | [Saint] | you could switch it out conditionally with %if and %cs |
| 20:19:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:26:47 | gevaerts | [Saint]: if you want to actually finish my themes, feel free :) |
| 20:27:17 | [Saint] | Instructing others on things that should do is so much more fun :) |
| 20:27:28 | * | [Saint] a word |
| 20:27:36 | gevaerts | Yes, that's why I'm doing that! |
| 20:27:56 | [Saint] | ...but! Awww. |
| 20:30:49 | zamboni | where can i fix my sansa fuze battery |
| 20:30:52 | zamboni | the fuze+ sucks! |
| 20:31:54 | * | pamaury wonders if he is the only one to not dislike the fuze+ |
| 20:31:57 | [Saint] | zamboni: constantly coming in here and spouting offtopic stuff is a good way to get people to ignore you. |
| 20:32:37 | zamboni | :\ |
| 20:32:45 | zamboni | I'm just not sure where to ask |
| 20:33:48 | pamaury | you do not ask anything, you write unrelated and vague sentences |
| 20:34:41 | * | [Saint] is quite confident SanDisk forums is the place for SanDisk products |
| 20:35:00 | [Saint] | (when unrelated to Rockbox) |
| 20:35:24 | zamboni | sandisk forums suck |
| 20:36:44 | [Saint] | So the answer it to pick a channel seemingly at random, and ask unrelated questions. |
| 20:36:51 | [Saint] | Yep, I can see how that workls. |
| 20:40:21 | zamboni | a bit |
| 20:40:33 | zamboni | sorry, I'm not saint |
| 20:40:35 | zamboni | lol get it |
| 20:41:25 | [Saint] | I do. I feel sorry for those that aren't me too. |
| 20:41:32 | [Saint] | :) |
| 20:48:01 | | Join SuperBrainAK [0] (~Andy@71-36-165-101.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 20:57:47 | | Join dynion [0] (~52a896aa@www.haxx.se) |
| 20:59:00 | dynion | is it correct that sony and philips mp3 players are not compatible with rockbox? |
| 20:59:15 | AlexP | If they aren't listed on www.rockbox.org, then no |
| 20:59:24 | AlexP | But some philips are to some extent |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:25 | pamaury | dynion: I recently explored the possibility of a very generic port to sony nwz's players but it's still very early stages and I know some recent philips players are quite easily rockbox'able with a moderate amount of work |
| 21:01:06 | [Saint] | dynion: *what* phillips player |
| 21:01:17 | [Saint] | the "if it isn't on the main page" thing isn't really true. |
| 21:01:42 | [Saint] | There's a tonne of partially supported players it doesn't list. |
| 21:04:07 | dynion | ha |
| 21:04:09 | AlexP | I didn't say main page |
| 21:04:13 | dynion | i knew there would be more:) |
| 21:04:20 | AlexP | I said the site |
| 21:04:27 | AlexP | And there are links from the main page |
| 21:04:37 | [Saint] | Ah, well...fwiw, some of them barely get a mention there either :) |
| 21:04:42 | [Saint] | also, sorry. I misread. |
| 21:05:00 | dynion | sony nwz-a820 |
| 21:05:22 | AlexP | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/TargetStatus#New_Platforms_Currently_Under_De |
| 21:05:34 | AlexP | and under |
| 21:05:41 | dynion | or possibly a philips sa28xx |
| 21:06:08 | [Saint] | the go-gear series is all we (partially) support, iirc. |
| 21:06:37 | | Quit akaWolf (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:07:04 | pamaury | dynion: are you running windows or linux ? If you have a linux at hand I can quickly evaluate the chances that the nwz-a820 be supported or not |
| 21:07:21 | dynion | windows... |
| 21:07:34 | dynion | or android, which basically is linux:P |
| 21:08:04 | [Saint] | for a very broad sense of the term. |
| 21:08:26 | [Saint] | it's a massively crippled linux with most of the interesting/useful bits removed. |
| 21:08:27 | dynion | haha:P |
| 21:08:36 | the-kyle | +1 |
| 21:08:37 | dynion | it works fine though...;P |
| 21:08:42 | dynion | you did made me laugh |
| 21:08:46 | dynion | ^_^ |
| 21:08:51 | pamaury | with linux you could have sent special commands to the device to see if it understands the protocol I reverse engineered. This tool currently doesn't work under Windows but could with a small amount of work. could you open a post in the New Port forum about the nwz-a820 ? |
| 21:09:09 | dynion | ehhh |
| 21:09:19 | dynion | 15 minutes ago i heard abot rockbox for the first time...:p |
| 21:09:23 | dynion | ah well |
| 21:09:26 | dynion | i will just search |
| 21:10:01 | dynion | rockbox developments −−> new ports i suppose? |
| 21:10:08 | dynion | should i give any information? |
| 21:10:38 | pamaury | The nwz-a820 that's one of the player I investigated and I wasn't able to brute force the key but if you players responds to the commands, we can potentially get the key. That would be a of great help for our understanding of the nwz series. Just watch the forum thread so I can post to it when the tool is windows ready |
| 21:10:40 | | Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 21:11:05 | dynion | i just grabbed the box and found out it's an nwz-a828 |
| 21:11:09 | dynion | basically the same |
| 21:11:14 | dynion | but who knows |
| 21:11:22 | | Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 21:11:50 | pamaury | all the nwz-a8xx are the same software-wise :) |
| 21:12:48 | dynion | yeah i thought so already:P |
| 21:14:08 | dynion | i hate the sony for not using flac |
| 21:14:53 | pamaury | I must say the sony software is not that bad except for two things: poor format support and bad usb support under linux |
| 21:15:17 | dynion | so.... rockbox won't enhance the sound?:P |
| 21:15:42 | | Quit y4n (Quit: PÆNTS ØLF!) |
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| 21:16:34 | | Quit jhMikeS (Changing host) |
| 21:16:34 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (~jethead71@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 21:17:10 | pamaury | probably not :) |
| 21:17:38 | dynion | what's the pro then? |
| 21:18:04 | AlexP | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/WhyRockbox |
| 21:18:20 | AlexP | That lists a small subsection |
| 21:18:33 | [Saint] | In some players, there is a marked difference in the audio quality. |
| 21:18:37 | [Saint] | In others, notsomuch. |
| 21:18:59 | dynion | wow! |
| 21:19:15 | [Saint] | It really depends exactly how silly and/or crippled the OF/hardware is. |
| 21:19:19 | dynion | i thought rockbox was a different audio driver |
| 21:19:31 | [Saint] | It is a complete firmware replacement. |
| 21:19:33 | dynion | but it looks like it's more:O cool! |
| 21:19:43 | AlexP | It replaces everything |
| 21:19:47 | AlexP | It is a complete OS |
| 21:20:12 | [Saint] | (with some exceptions to that rule, but this is true for all the DAPs) |
| 21:20:23 | dynion | OS? so the menus will differ as well... |
| 21:20:32 | [Saint] | *everything* will :) |
| 21:20:32 | AlexP | Everything is different |
| 21:20:38 | AlexP | Is a complete replacement |
| 21:20:42 | [Saint] | or, would, rather. |
| 21:20:59 | [Saint] | I'm talking in a tense that implies your player is supported. |
| 21:21:03 | dynion | i like the fastness of my sony..... is rockbox just as easy? |
| 21:21:14 | AlexP | Depends on you |
| 21:21:16 | [Saint] | moreso in many cases. |
| 21:21:24 | AlexP | Some people would say yes, some no |
| 21:21:41 | [Saint] | we have a lot of options to enable some fairly quick shortcuts to things. |
| 21:21:43 | AlexP | more powerful for sure, and extra features and possibilities will always increase complexity somewhat |
| 21:22:15 | dynion | hmmm |
| 21:22:22 | dynion | i do like a lot of those things |
| 21:22:26 | [Saint] | enabling the shortcuts menu as the quickscreen is probably the fastest way to navigate around often used items. |
| 21:22:46 | dynion | i have no problem with complex |
| 21:22:49 | * | [Saint] realises those terms probably mean very little |
| 21:22:54 | dynion | if it's complex in a logical way |
| 21:23:06 | dynion | for example: i love excel, as it is complex, but useful |
| 21:23:40 | [Saint] | Some people have a very violent reaction to how "unintuitive" Rockbox seems to them. But this is really a veiled reaction to "OMG, it's different!" |
| 21:23:41 | dynion | what player do you guys like most? as in bang for the buck |
| 21:23:58 | dynion | hmm.. i hate ios for NOT being different |
| 21:24:24 | dynion | i'm always trying around with all my stuff... just to look if it works better:) |
| 21:25:04 | [Saint] | I think it's hard, if not impossible, to provide a UI that evry single man woman and child can "just work". So I always laugh when people argue about things not being intuitive. |
| 21:25:20 | dynion | i hear a lot of guys about a sanse clip + with rockbox |
| 21:25:26 | [Saint] | I know what they /mean/, but they often can't articulte what would make it "intuitive". |
| 21:25:41 | dynion | actually that's how i found rockbox at all... but what players would you all suggest? |
| 21:25:42 | * | the-kyle has a clip+ with Rockbox and loves it. |
| 21:26:01 | [Saint] | Depends, flash, or HDD? |
| 21:26:05 | | Quit mrkiko (Quit: leaving) |
| 21:26:06 | dynion | flash |
| 21:26:16 | [Saint] | Probably a Clip or a Fuze |
| 21:26:23 | dynion | it has to be rock solid to survive me... sony's are solid...somehow |
| 21:26:27 | [Saint] | cheap, accessible, expandable storage. |
| 21:26:33 | [Saint] | ...and supported :) |
| 21:26:45 | dynion | i had a sansa before |
| 21:27:06 | dynion | 4 to be exact... the 3,5mm in just broke down time after time |
| 21:27:14 | the-kyle | I have a Clip+ now, but the next supported player I purchase will likely be the ClipZip. |
| 21:27:16 | dynion | even though i was |
| 21:27:28 | dynion | well i would even say subtle |
| 21:27:52 | [Saint] | If money wasn't an option. iPod Classic, hands down. |
| 21:27:56 | dynion | it just broke down |
| 21:28:07 | [Saint] | Well made, awesome hardware, and it is a beast in terms of power. |
| 21:28:19 | dynion | there's an apple logo on it... right? |
| 21:28:23 | dynion | didn't that mean it sucks? |
| 21:28:29 | [Saint] | Not at all :) |
| 21:28:44 | [Saint] | Apple make great hardware, they just suck at life and business. |
| 21:28:47 | dynion | i listened to a few apple's and the all made me puke |
| 21:29:02 | dynion | it really is the worsest experience i ever had |
| 21:29:07 | the-kyle | The Classic only sucks if Rockbox isn't on it. |
| 21:29:19 | [Saint] | Rockbox would change that opinion, I almost guarantee that. |
| 21:29:29 | dynion | oh wait |
| 21:29:33 | dynion | that's not the old nano |
| 21:29:43 | dynion | its the hdd thingy |
| 21:29:49 | [Saint] | (which we also support) |
| 21:30:08 | dynion | the old nano is the worsest thing i ever found |
| 21:30:19 | dynion | the classic sounded like crappy drivers and good hardwar |
| 21:30:19 | dynion | e |
| 21:30:39 | [Saint] | I actually think that is the Rockbox player with the best sound quality. |
| 21:30:43 | dynion | but that thing is 200 euro... a hifiman hm-601 is preferred in such a case, i suppose |
| 21:30:53 | [Saint] | It's really just a little flash powered ipod video with a tiny screen. |
| 21:32:12 | dynion | the ipod classic has an hdd... |
| 21:32:15 | dynion | and it breaks down a lot |
| 21:33:28 | dynion | and i like cycling on a racing cycle through the woods and mud at 3:00 at night |
| 21:33:43 | dynion | and sometimes water if i'm not careful:/ |
| 21:34:01 | the-kyle | Very little will survive that very long without a protective case of some sort. |
| 21:34:16 | dynion | the water only happened just once |
| 21:34:26 | dynion | the sony is keeping up with me for about 2 years now |
| 21:34:56 | dynion | with only 2 scratches |
| 21:35:33 | dynion | but my sennheiser CX880 died last week... so i'm searching for new earbuds and when i'm busy, i might upgrade my mp3 player as well |
| 21:35:50 | [Saint] | A Clip(V2/+) seems like a very good option for you. |
| 21:36:03 | [Saint] | they are basically indestructible, although they /feel/ cheap. |
| 21:36:15 | [Saint] | Several people here have had them survive a washing machine. |
| 21:36:20 | the-kyle | I've had my Clip+ for over a year now. I'm hard on it, but I can't say I abuse mine that much hehehehe. |
| 21:37:13 | [Saint] | If you require a color screen, all Clip(s) are out. |
| 21:37:18 | dynion | hmmm everyone is positive about this clip... is there any chance i misjudged sansa? |
| 21:37:32 | the-kyle | Best thing is I didn't pay very much for it, so it's also quite easily replaceable in case something bad does happen. |
| 21:37:42 | dynion | i don't give a shit about colored screens... i have a nexus 7 if i want videos of some sort...:p |
| 21:37:55 | the-kyle | The ClipZip isn't color? |
| 21:37:58 | * | [Saint] will say uncategorically that he HATES the Clip(s) hardware. |
| 21:38:10 | [Saint] | It feels like a McDonalds Happy Meal toy. |
| 21:38:21 | dynion | i agree on that poind |
| 21:38:24 | dynion | point* |
| 21:38:27 | [Saint] | ...but the sound quality is awesome, and they are cheap, powerful, and virtually indestructible. |
| 21:38:41 | dynion | my english really sucks... haven't used it in a while |
| 21:38:51 | dynion | ok |
| 21:38:51 | [Saint] | you're doing very well. |
| 21:39:11 | dynion | i know 3 clips, the normal one, the clip+, the clipzip |
| 21:39:18 | the-kyle | I decided not to judge the book by its cover, and I ended up being right. It feels cheap on the outside, but it's much better inside. |
| 21:39:32 | dynion | the clipzip is smaller en lighter |
| 21:39:35 | the-kyle | ClipZip is newest. |
| 21:39:36 | dynion | but i dont care about weight |
| 21:39:40 | [Saint] | "the normal one" is really two main variants with at least two variants of a variant. :) |
| 21:39:47 | [Saint] | It can be confusing. |
| 21:39:50 | dynion | i caer about audi quality |
| 21:39:56 | dynion | "the normal one" is really two main variants with at least two variants of a variant. :) |
| 21:40:02 | dynion | and the next thing you say |
| 21:40:05 | dynion | it can be confusing |
| 21:40:08 | dynion | oh really?:P |
| 21:40:39 | the-kyle | Most of that is taken care of in software, so you don't notice the differences using the Rockbox Utility to install. |
| 21:40:45 | dynion | i found out when you used the word variant 4 times in one sentence, and referred to it once |
| 21:40:54 | [Saint] | there are V1 and V2 Clips, and the hardware can differ slightly, even though the model number doesn't. |
| 21:41:05 | [Saint] | as far as I know it is just the FM chip that can differ. |
| 21:41:06 | dynion | ah, that's readable |
| 21:41:09 | [Saint] | ...possibly the LCD. |
| 21:41:16 | dynion | i don't use radio anyway:) |
| 21:41:20 | dynion | ok |
| 21:41:26 | dynion | what about the clip+? |
| 21:41:36 | dynion | it's widely sold in the netherlands |
| 21:41:48 | the-kyle | Clip+ has 2 FM chips also I think. Not sure though. |
| 21:42:30 | dynion | fm radio chips... but no better audio quality? |
| 21:42:41 | dynion | sansa says it has |
| 21:42:58 | [Saint] | It's a nice player, the Clip+ is ever so slightly smaller, and has a nicer feeling directional pad. |
| 21:43:06 | the-kyle | I can't compare with/without Rockbox, since I'm visually impaired, and so can't use my Clip+ without Rockbox. |
| 21:43:11 | funman | [Saint]: the CPU is different between v1 & v2, also the amount of RAM |
| 21:43:16 | funman | clipv2 can run doom, clipv1 can't |
| 21:43:21 | dynion | wow |
| 21:43:28 | dynion | that does differ quite a lot than:P |
| 21:43:37 | dynion | the lcd, the hardware and the radio |
| 21:43:37 | bluebrother | red leading letter? |
| 21:43:39 | funman | 8MB versus 2MB |
| 21:43:50 | funman | and armv5 versus armv4 |
| 21:43:50 | dynion | that's almost another player |
| 21:43:54 | [Saint] | They realised, I think, that they included a rather excessive amount of RAm in the V1 Clip. |
| 21:43:58 | funman | also clipv2 battery life is 3 times longer |
| 21:44:00 | [Saint] | (thanks funman I forgot that) |
| 21:44:02 | dynion | i hate armv4 :/ |
| 21:44:07 | dynion | it doesn't run anything |
| 21:44:11 | funman | [Saint]: actually it's the reverse (8mb for clipv2) |
| 21:44:27 | [Saint] | bah, mishit a key, yes, thanks. |
| 21:44:36 | [Saint] | Wait, no I didn't. |
| 21:44:44 | [Saint] | Nope, I was outright wrong :) |
| 21:44:53 | funman | dynion: that's rather uneducated, armv4 runs rockbox |
| 21:45:02 | | Join Cinos [0] (Cinos@c617a456.ipv4.mtbnc.us) |
| 21:45:15 | dynion | armv4 doesn't run anything with android |
| 21:45:22 | [Saint] | armv4 is plenty for a DAP. |
| 21:45:28 | dynion | i know for rockbox about half an hour:p |
| 21:45:35 | dynion | normally i'm in another line of work |
| 21:45:53 | dynion | smartphones, tablets, computers... more advanced in processing power, less in audio quality:) |
| 21:46:29 | dynion | but as my in-ears died, i can also learn a lot about this market... it can not hurt:) |
| 21:47:24 | dynion | so |
| 21:47:51 | dynion | clip + vs clip zip in audio quality and build quality? |
| 21:48:08 | dynion | design is not an issue as it's in my pocket almost always |
| 21:48:49 | [Saint] | Other people won't agree with me, I'm sure, but if you have the money and like well made hardware...I recommend an iPod Classic 6/6.5/7G. If you want a cheap, basically disposable player, that is still awesome...and available, a Clip/Fuze. |
| 21:49:20 | dynion | http://www.getflashmemory.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/0123a.jpg <−− this was the stupid, love to breakdown sansa i had |
| 21:49:35 | [Saint] | I don't think any player can beat an iPod on build quality, personally. But that's me. |
| 21:49:42 | dynion | well |
| 21:49:52 | dynion | 3 reasons for not buying the apple |
| 21:49:56 | dynion | it's expansive |
| 21:50:03 | dynion | all my friends know i hate apple |
| 21:50:22 | dynion | it actually would be fun to misuse an apple and say it's good, but most will laugh at me... i don't want that |
| 21:50:27 | bertrik_ | dynion: what model is that? |
| 21:50:37 | dynion | and i breaks down way faster with my kind of behaving |
| 21:51:07 | * | [Saint] has never seen that player wither. |
| 21:51:11 | [Saint] | *either |
| 21:51:24 | dynion | bertrik_ sansa express |
| 21:51:26 | [Saint] | reminds me of a C200, kinda. |
| 21:51:44 | dynion | i needed a mp3 player just before the first clip came out |
| 21:51:54 | dynion | but it was for my birthday, so i couldn''t wait. |
| 21:52:00 | [Saint] | It's a "C200 Shuffle" :P |
| 21:52:02 | dynion | then i bought this one |
| 21:52:16 | bertrik_ | [Saint]: kind of a bastard combination of a clip and a C200 and an M400 |
| 21:52:25 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 21:52:44 | dynion | and i really, really hated it... it's the most hated mp3 player i had, and i only hate the ipod shuffle and the ipod nano of older generations more |
| 21:52:44 | dynion | :P |
| 21:53:07 | pamaury | bluebrother: I just realized that sg3_util has a windows port ! |
| 21:53:26 | dynion | it broke down 4 times in two weeks, and each time i got a new one, which broke down as well |
| 21:53:28 | * | [Saint] restrains himself from ranting about his much beloved iPod Nano1G |
| 21:53:59 | dynion | then i bought my sony which somehow can't die |
| 21:54:28 | dynion | saint, what earbuds do you use? |
| 21:54:31 | dynion | or headphones |
| 21:56:03 | * | [Saint] points dynion to #rockbox-community for that |
| 21:56:19 | dynion | ok, willdo |
| 21:56:50 | dynion | but still, clip+ vs clipzip |
| 21:57:32 | | Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p4FC74DF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:57:55 | dynion | sansa says the clip+ has better sound |
| 21:58:13 | dynion | clip zip looks less solid |
| 21:58:18 | dynion | but i might be wrong on both |
| 21:58:54 | | Quit einhirn (Client Quit) |
| 21:59:15 | [Saint] | What sansa says about the sound is kinda irrelevant, as they can't produce a true pitch with their firmware anyway nless they patched it out. |
| 21:59:47 | funman | audio quality for clip zip and + should be identical as they are the same device with a different screen |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:22 | [Saint] | funman: did they ever fix the pitch issues in the OF? |
| 22:00:22 | [Saint] | I know they /tried/, did they succeed? |
| 22:00:50 | funman | OF is off topic here |
| 22:01:05 | dynion | thanks funman:) |
| 22:01:16 | dynion | and build quality? |
| 22:01:33 | | Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@p4FC74DF4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:01:39 | dynion | mostly smaller, lighter things are stronger |
| 22:01:55 | dynion | as they can't crash itself with their own weight |
| 22:06:11 | dynion | what about the fiio x3? |
| 22:06:57 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 22:19:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:27:24 | * | [Saint] wonders if anyone has ever considered dynamic scaling with more than just boosted/unboosted |
| 22:27:47 | [Saint] | the Classic boosting to ~200MHz just to run the UI is a bit...overkill. |
| 22:28:23 | [Saint] | considering it never, ever boosts during playback (mp3@320 CBR) until it needs to rebuffer. |
| 22:28:28 | bluebrother | pamaury: I know. However, I really don't want yet-another-dependency |
| 22:28:33 | bluebrother | regardless of the OS |
| 22:28:56 | bluebrother | especially since we have some kind of custom SCSI support in ipodpatcher already |
| 22:29:10 | bluebrother | however, it needs to get adjusted. Which is simply work someone needs to do :) |
| 22:29:17 | [Saint] | Would it be possible to add intermediate frequencies, instead of just boosted/unboosted? |
| 22:29:35 | bluebrother | (and the OS X implementation is unfortunately a bit limited. And doing custom SCSI on OS X is a real pain) |
| 22:30:30 | gevaerts | [Saint]: possible, yes. Deciding when to use which level, well... |
| 22:30:37 | gevaerts | Not the simplest of issues :) |
| 22:31:13 | [Saint] | There's many fairly simple models for governors out there. |
| 22:31:17 | pamaury | well, since it's already a dependency on linux I don't see why it's a problem on windows. fortunately it's much simpler to do directly on windows so that's not a real problem I guess |
| 22:31:22 | [Saint] | ..but I guess you're talking integration. |
| 22:32:06 | [Saint] | the most simple model, is likely ondemand, iirc. |
| 22:32:26 | bluebrother | no, it's not a dependency on Linux |
| 22:32:36 | [Saint] | "is the CPU in high demand? boost a step. Is it still? Yes - boost again. No? check if we can step down. etc. |
| 22:32:38 | bluebrother | only time-sync uses sg3_utils |
| 22:32:46 | bluebrother | ipodpatcher (and thus Rockbox Utility) does not |
| 22:33:07 | preglow | so, how bout them commit mails? still no go? |
| 22:33:14 | bluebrother | preglow: no |
| 22:33:21 | | Join Dex__ [0] (~textual@c-76-101-230-214.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 22:33:26 | [Saint] | preglow: still no go, yes. |
| 22:33:33 | pamaury | bluebrother: in ipodpatcher I can see #include <scsi/sg.h> in ipod-posix.c ! |
| 22:34:00 | preglow | weird, why not? one would think some simple scripting would make that happen |
| 22:34:12 | [Saint] | be our guest :) |
| 22:34:14 | bluebrother | hmm? |
| 22:34:17 | * | bluebrother checks |
| 22:34:23 | preglow | [Saint]: sure, just wondering if there's a better reason first |
| 22:35:04 | bluebrother | ah, yes. But that's not part of sg3_utils |
| 22:35:24 | bluebrother | on my machine that's part of glibc-common |
| 22:37:29 | pamaury | ah so it does raw ioctl too |
| 22:37:37 | bluebrother | yes. |
| 22:38:13 | JdGordon | kugel: what question? about buffering_reset()? I just wonder if it is ever safe |
| 22:38:29 | JdGordon | it now nukes every handle currently allocated |
| 22:38:33 | JdGordon | so everything is going to break |
| 22:39:25 | prof_wolfff | Saint, i was really busy last months but still had time to do some testing and analizing how OF behaves, actually i am running my classic at 36MHz while playing mp3@320, at this freq lcd is slow, OF probably goes as low as 18MHz., i think we can try to reach 13.5Mhz while playing and boost it while decoding |
| 22:40:34 | [Saint] | prof_wolfff: the idea of intermediate scaling frequencies intrigues me. |
| 22:40:46 | [Saint] | ...but, I don't think I have the codig ability to get there. |
| 22:41:16 | Dex__ | has anyone heard the new Dr.Zilog album |
| 22:41:33 | pamaury | bluebrother: ok, then I think it would be worthwhile to have a clean implementation of scsi in our repository and to only depend on it to avoid extra dependencies. another task for Mr. Someone |
| 22:41:36 | [Saint] | Dex__: off-topic |
| 22:42:31 | bluebrother | pamaury: yes :) |
| 22:42:59 | * | bluebrother knows Zilog only as chip manufacturer *g* |
| 22:43:37 | pamaury | [Saint]: intermediate scaling could probably be very useful to targets like imx233 which can range from 24MHz to 455MHz ! |
| 22:43:40 | prof_wolfff | i think we can do it, got very nice info about how clkcon section can be controlled, actually i am running some test on my ipod, i want to send some patches ASAP, but need to rearange all my notes and clean the code |
| 22:43:58 | Dex__ | sorry for derailing guys |
| 22:44:01 | Dex__ | and gals |
| 22:44:29 | * | [Saint] suddenly remembers who prof_wolfff is |
| 22:44:40 | [Saint] | sorry man, didn't recognize the nick for a while |
| 22:44:57 | [Saint] | "iPod Classic freq scaling guy" :) |
| 22:46:07 | saratoga | for decoding audio with the screen off on ARM9, 24 MHz is actually pretty close to where you want to be |
| 22:46:13 | prof_wolfff | :), i am very interested on powersaving and battery charger, also i got my ipod to record from microphone but need to be boosted, probably it could be done at lower freqs but need to test it |
| 22:46:20 | [Saint] | pamaury: I also thought so for the Classic, and perhaps the Nano2G and Beast |
| 22:47:05 | [Saint] | ...everything really. I'm not sure it could hurt. |
| 22:47:14 | pamaury | I don't know how hard it would be to have the core move from the boost/unboost model to something more scalable. However the low-level set_cpu_frequency interface stays the same so it's mainly a target independent issue at least |
| 22:47:48 | saratoga | i thought about allowing codecs to signal to the core how much CPU time they're likely to need |
| 22:48:27 | saratoga | like allowing flac to send BOOST_LOW and ask for the lowest possible clock since it needs to little power, then if a driver can support multiple boost speeds it knows to use the lowest one |
| 22:48:32 | pamaury | dynion: still there ? |
| 22:48:54 | [Saint] | Classic needs 0.08MHz for flac8 realtime :) |
| 22:49:33 | [Saint] | It can play all audio formats I use without boosting at all. |
| 22:49:36 | saratoga | you could generalize that to other parts of the core too, for instance allow the WPS code to request a higher minimum boost frequency if complex tags are in use |
| 22:49:57 | prof_wolfff | i think really we can do freq scaling on CPU, AHB, APB using diferent divisor on each clock |
| 22:50:44 | saratoga | yeah, on AMS the memory divider actually has a big impact on both performance and power use |
| 22:50:49 | [Saint] | baby steps :) |
| 22:51:36 | dynion | here i am, pamaury |
| 22:52:16 | [Saint] | saratoga: JdGordon will correct me I'm sure, but I _think_ the only time the skin engine needs to run boosted is when drawing peak meter(s). |
| 22:52:27 | [Saint] | I think everything else is reasonaly low demand. |
| 22:52:31 | saratoga | ah ok |
| 22:52:42 | saratoga | probably easier to just boost whenever the screen is on anyway |
| 22:52:55 | [Saint] | And, iirc, it already boosts when peak meters are in display. |
| 22:52:56 | saratoga | so that there is no studdering when the clock changes |
| 22:53:10 | pamaury | dynion: I built our tool for windows and sent you the link a private message, tell me when you have it so I can guide you |
| 22:53:25 | JdGordon | [Saint]: pretty much... skin engine isnt very cpu intensive |
| 22:53:50 | JdGordon | well, it hasnt been benchmarked, but it shold not need boosting (I'd call it a bug if it did) |
| 22:54:23 | [Saint] | am I right that peak meters in view trigger boosting? |
| 22:54:37 | [Saint] | can't find the source relevant to it. |
| 22:54:44 | JdGordon | i dont even think peak meters boosts |
| 22:54:50 | prof_wolfff | one aproach is each task informing about the task it is running, then each target depending on what is running at each time decide the freq for CPU/bus/... |
| 22:54:51 | JdGordon | it ups the refresh rate to 25Hz though |
| 22:54:53 | [Saint] | Hum. Ok, awesome. |
| 22:56:18 | [Saint] | Intermediate scaling levels has been in the back of my mind for about 4 years now :) |
| 22:56:37 | [Saint] | No idea why it took me so long to ask. I guess I assumed it would be there, were it possible. |
| 22:56:39 | [Saint] | Bad mistake. |
| 22:57:03 | JdGordon | isnt the normal way to do scaling, having an idle task which entirely controls the scaling if it gets starved cpu time? |
| 22:57:24 | [Saint] | that's pretty much ondemand, yeah. |
| 22:58:10 | [Saint] | if it gets starved, trigger up a step and chek if it is still staving or not and downscale/upscale accordingly. |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:50 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: probably you just need to test the performance (using test_codec) for a couple different settings, and maybe also do a battery bench at a few settings |
| 23:01:15 | saratoga | i did this on the AMS devices, and from a performance/battery standpoint, there are optimal settings you can use |
| 23:01:52 | | Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 23:02:09 | prof_wolfff | playing already decodec music required no CPU cycles, DMA does it alone |
| 23:06:27 | * | [Saint] wonders if this batter bench will beat 40 hours |
| 23:06:37 | [Saint] | ("Thick" Classic) |
| 23:06:50 | [Saint] | *battery too |
| 23:06:57 | prof_wolfff | actually Classic can decode mp3@320 at 36MHz, but i think there are other codecs that requieres more cycles, the idea is to decode at full speed (5-10 seconds of music) and then do playback at a very low speed (13.5MHz or less???) |
| 23:07:04 | [Saint] | 38 hours and counting, with ~18% battery left |
| 23:07:33 | bertrik_ | JdGordon: I think I suggested that once, but basically got told it's been tried and rejected |
| 23:08:41 | [Saint] | prof_wolfff: those numbers match my findings, yes. |
| 23:09:14 | [Saint] | about 36MHz to decode CBR mp3@320, about 14MHz for realtime |
| 23:09:35 | prof_wolfff | i have access to a 160 thin Classic, did a test on it, SVN version: 36h, running at 36MHz: 42.5h |
| 23:10:07 | [Saint] | Do you have a patch somewhere to lower min_freq? |
| 23:10:15 | prof_wolfff | continuous playback -35dB, 32ohm headphones inserted |
| 23:10:17 | [Saint] | iirc, it's ususally 54MHz is it not? |
| 23:13:08 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: if you have time, you could run the test files we have on the website through test_codec and update this page with Ipod6G results: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CodecPerformanceComparison |
| 23:13:27 | saratoga | you can download the entire test file collection here: http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/ |
| 23:13:32 | * | [Saint] did a test_codec run he needs to upload. |
| 23:13:40 | [Saint] | but I need to strip out the failed results. |
| 23:14:00 | [Saint] | "wmapro == 4000000% realtime" :-S |
| 23:14:24 | [Saint] | whilst producing white noise that physically hurts. |
| 23:14:29 | [Saint] | even with volume at mute. |
| 23:15:25 | [Saint] | at least one of the vorbis files failed too. |
| 23:15:38 | [Saint] | need to wait for the So to get home before I can poke at that again. |
| 23:15:39 | prof_wolfff | yes, SVN version runs 54/54 CPU/AHB, my patched version runs @ 36/18, voltage is also reduced from 1050->1000 mV |
| 23:16:15 | [Saint] | prof_wolfff: on gerrit? |
| 23:16:16 | saratoga | ah nice |
| 23:16:32 | saratoga | how low can voltage safely go when at low clock speed? |
| 23:16:51 | [Saint] | some Classics don't like the undervolting at all. |
| 23:16:55 | prof_wolfff | i want to send a patch to gerrit for revision/testing but need to recode the thing, to reach this settings it should be done on various steps, actually my code is a ugly patch |
| 23:18:53 | prof_wolfff | probabbly |
| 23:20:23 | saratoga | sounds good |
| 23:20:26 | pamaury | most devices don't really like being undervolted w.r.t clock speed. On imx233 this immediately locks the chip. |
| 23:20:39 | prof_wolfff | probably we can decrease voltage as we decrease freq., i run my ipod80 @ 36/18/1000 for 3-4 months with no problems, normal use, no extensive testing |
| 23:21:22 | [Saint] | I recall emCORE did some slight undervolting, and some users got into unfortunate situations |
| 23:21:54 | [Saint] | Some Classics handled it, others didn't. (from memory) |
| 23:22:09 | | Quit alexbobp (Read error: Operation timed out) |
| 23:22:48 | prof_wolfff | actually 54/54/1050mV seems to go ok for everyone, no issues til now |
| 23:24:12 | prof_wolfff | saratoga: will try to do the test_codec and send the results |
| 23:24:37 | saratoga | cool; |
| 23:24:42 | | Join alexbobp [0] (~alex@capitalthree.pwnz.org) |
| 23:24:52 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: i suggest not including the slower APE files |
| 23:25:00 | saratoga | will go MUCH faster and no one cares about them since they won't be real time |
| 23:27:47 | prof_wolfff | i have my classic highly patched, my idea is to create a bunch of patches and send it to gerrit if the are "dangerous" modifications or proposed stuff (freq scaling, dma, recording), and directly commit to git the more inocuous code |
| 23:28:21 | | Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) |
| 23:29:00 | [Saint] | You enabled recording? |
| 23:29:00 | [Saint] | You little ledgend. |
| 23:29:12 | [Saint] | Get the sh*t on gerrit, now! :) |
| 23:29:45 | * | [Saint] would also like to see the DMA patch |
| 23:30:01 | prof_wolfff | i can record at full speed, but thing it could be done unboosted |
| 23:30:30 | kugel | JdGordon: yes, but there shouldnt be any handles |
| 23:30:44 | kugel | since playback is stopped |
| 23:31:13 | kugel | hm, but one thing could be problematic |
| 23:31:35 | kugel | the fms calls audio_get_buffer() before, without also grabbing the voice buffer |
| 23:31:57 | prof_wolfff | i rewrite an old dma queue driver to work on RB, actually it works with playback and lcd |
| 23:32:12 | [Saint] | gerrit, now! :) |
| 23:32:15 | kugel | I think buffering_reset() allocs a n ew voice buffer |
| 23:33:12 | | Quit shamus (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
| 23:33:13 | prof_wolfff | need to do lots of cleanup and testing on some areas but i promise i will send all stuff soon |
| 23:33:36 | | Join shamus [0] (~shmaus@ip-206-192-195-49.marylandheights.ip.cablemo.net) |
| 23:35:29 | prof_wolfff | i also have very interesting info about how ipod HW behaves, i will be nice is this info is published on the web or somewhere, maybe it can help other people who wants to develop on classic |
| 23:37:31 | | Quit Guest94269 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:37:59 | kugel | no, nevermind |
| 23:41:50 | kugel | JdGordon: you could try just remoing the buffering_reset call(), it's probably unecessary anyway |
| 23:41:53 | kugel | removing* |
| 23:43:37 | JdGordon | kugel: buffering_Reset() nukes every buflib handle no? |
| 23:43:41 | JdGordon | not just audio |
| 23:43:59 | kugel | no, just the audio buffer |
| 23:44:18 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: boosting while recording is probably ok |
| 23:44:41 | saratoga | i would commit it with boosting and then if you want fix it to work without boosting later |
| 23:45:00 | saratoga | probably though someone recording won't care too much about battery life anyway |
| 23:48:52 | saratoga | Bagder, Zagor: could one of you upload the contents of this folder to the test_files folder on the website: http://mit.edu/mgg6/www/opus/ |
| 23:49:07 | kugel | JdGordon: you could also try changing the first paramter of audio_get_buffer() to true |
| 23:49:49 | kugel | it means to also grab the talk buffer, so if the bug has anything to do with talk it should make a difference |
| 23:49:56 | moben | JdGordon: got some time? this passes checkwps and sim gives no error, but it doesn't show anything: https://raw.github.com/gist/4459337/ |
| 23:50:17 | prof_wolfff | saratoga: actually RB unboost while recording so we need to disable it or allow recording unboosted, i think later is possible, another issue is that on ipod160 the micro on headphones jack should be activated throught the "mikey" controller (apple peripherical id chip), i managed to do it but need todo some more testing (i have access to a ipod160 but not all the time) |
| 23:50:26 | JdGordon | moben: not really :/ |
| 23:51:01 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: worst case you can put an #ifdef IPOD_6G in the recording code or in the driver |
| 23:51:07 | saratoga | i believe some other targets do this |
| 23:51:11 | kugel | (grabbing the talk buffer obviously means talk support is disabled) |
| 23:51:11 | moben | okay, I'm in no hurry |
| 23:51:20 | JdGordon | I'll try to look tonight |
| 23:51:45 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: by the way, usually its a good idea to keep uploading things to gerrit as you do them so that other people know what your'e working on :) |
| 23:51:46 | prof_wolfff | we can even read the remote button events using sennheiser px100ii-i (includes micro + remote) |
| 23:52:00 | saratoga | cool, some people were asking about that the other day |
| 23:53:16 | prof_wolfff | know that but these couldnt be considered patches, maybe test code, many things are not functional at all and need to be finished |
| 23:55:35 | saratoga | prof_wolfff: things don't need to be finished to put them on gerrit, i've uploaded lots of things that don't even compile just so that I don't lose them :) |
| 23:55:52 | [Saint] | prof_wolfff: just so you know, as long as my partner hasn't stolen it for work, I have access to a 160Gb "thick" Classic |
| 23:57:53 | prof_wolfff | thats true!, i was really busy, lots of travelling, but had time to look at OF and latter try to test some discoverings, actually my notes/code is arround my main computer, a couple of laptops and half a dozen of pendrives and external hd, need to recompile all |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).