| 00:00:03 | pamaury | gevaerts: the OF has (theoretically) support for scaling everything, but the code is so complicated that I can't tell |
| 00:00:28 | | Quit djp_ (Quit: leaving) |
| 00:01:01 | pamaury | I don't know how the OF longs in fact. Sansa sells it at 24h but it might be more |
| 00:01:45 | [Saint] | I recall seeing a report of 28h in the OF somewhere...trying to find it now. |
| 00:02:03 | [Saint] | But, yeah, pretty sure SanDisk touts it at 24h |
| 00:04:23 | pamaury | we could clock down even more actually, but I think that with cpu and emi at 64MHz, auto slow divider 8 and core speed support, we are pretty good |
| 00:04:23 | pamaury | *core sleep |
| 00:06:22 | Shinobi | not to sound like a douche, but do you know of any other ipod firmware projects that may support pdf? |
| 00:06:42 | [Saint] | Shinobi: There are none. |
| 00:06:47 | Shinobi | damn |
| 00:06:49 | Shinobi | thanks |
| 00:07:01 | [Saint] | The only other one that existed was IPL, and that died a sad, sad, sad death a long time ago. |
| 00:07:11 | [Saint] | ...and no, it didn;t support PDF either. |
| 00:07:36 | Shinobi | I saw the enhancement request was closed... no shot of reconsidering eh? :) |
| 00:07:39 | [Saint] | Rockbox is the only project of its type. |
| 00:08:00 | gevaerts | Shinobi: we closed all feature requests, because tracking those is basically useless |
| 00:08:04 | | Quit pamaury (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 00:08:09 | Shinobi | ah |
| 00:08:12 | [Saint] | I'm not sure it is possible on many of the supported players. |
| 00:08:14 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 00:08:24 | gevaerts | If someone contributes a decent pdf reader plugin, it will most likely be accepted |
| 00:08:29 | [Saint] | PDF is quite resource intensiove. |
| 00:08:41 | [Saint] | -o |
| 00:08:47 | dfkt | and horrible to read on small screens anyway |
| 00:08:55 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 00:09:26 | pamaury | or perhaps the ddr ram is drawing a lot of power, you guys are the electrical engineerings ! |
| 00:10:08 | pamaury | *engineers |
| 00:11:36 | Shinobi | I have some language lessons in mp3 and the book in pdf and trying to find a way to put everything on the ipod. I suppose I'll have to convert... |
| 00:12:36 | pamaury | well, you could try to port libdontrememberthename which handles the pdf, the hard part (I think) is finding a good way to scale things to fit them on the screen |
| 00:13:06 | pamaury | and of course I'm a bit suspicious when I see that my laptop takes seconds to load some pages on some pdfs... |
| 00:13:27 | [Saint] | Ah, yes... |
| 00:13:35 | [Saint] | import libdontrememberthename |
| 00:14:46 | pamaury | libpoppler ! |
| 00:15:18 | [Saint] | And, yes. My PC is more powerful than any one of my DAPs, by vast orders of magnitude, and even then it can take a few seconds to load a PDF. |
| 00:15:45 | [Saint] | I would be quite surprised it any of the supported players had the "guts" to load any more than the most basic PDFs. |
| 00:15:58 | Shinobi | thinks for the info. Have a good weekend and keep up the good work! |
| 00:16:04 | Shinobi | Thanks^^ |
| 00:17:24 | [Saint] | pamaury: this guy? http://goo.gl/drOA3 :D |
| 00:17:30 | [Saint] | (A "poppler") |
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| 00:20:17 | pamaury | [Saint]: what are the most powerful DAPs we have ? imx233 has 454MHz arm9 with 151MHz DDR RAM and 64 MB of ram, that seems quite a thing already, is PDF *that* complicated ? |
| 00:21:02 | [Saint] | I _think_ imx233 is the winner. |
| 00:21:06 | gevaerts | The other contender would be the gigabeat s |
| 00:21:14 | AlexP | gigabeat s is 512 MHz IIRC |
| 00:21:17 | gevaerts | We'll need a decode-off :) |
| 00:21:20 | [Saint] | Then the Classic, then the Nano2G |
| 00:21:32 | gevaerts | AlexP: nearer 600, I think |
| 00:21:44 | AlexP | 5 something anyway :) |
| 00:21:48 | gevaerts | They're different cores though, so who knows? |
| 00:21:49 | AlexP | but yes, now you say it |
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| 00:21:53 | AlexP | 582 or so? |
| 00:22:21 | [Saint] | Wow, I didn't think the Gigabeat was /that/ powerful... |
| 00:22:29 | [Saint] | What were they thinking? :) |
| 00:22:32 | AlexP | 528 is my new offer |
| 00:22:37 | gevaerts | pamaury: can you decode ape -c5000 on fuze+? :) |
| 00:22:53 | AlexP | [Saint]: It was running Windows |
| 00:22:54 | pamaury | I think the imx233 shines more by its hardware accelerated *other* features, especially dma. Don't know, how can I check this ? :) |
| 00:22:57 | gevaerts | The gigabeat S can *just* do it |
| 00:23:18 | gevaerts | pamaury: http://download.rockbox.org/test_files/ and test_codec :) |
| 00:23:27 | AlexP | aha! 532 MHz |
| 00:23:37 | [Saint] | Sold! |
| 00:23:40 | AlexP | http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/GigabeatSInfo#CPU |
| 00:23:42 | [Saint] | To the man in the yellow hat. |
| 00:23:43 | pamaury | ok, I'll see this later and tell you, take the bet :) |
| 00:24:15 | * | gevaerts bets one USB cable on the Gigabeat |
| 00:24:54 | * | pamaury thinks gevaerts should be more precise on the kind of USB cable |
| 00:25:00 | gevaerts | Hmmm |
| 00:25:04 | AlexP | a broken and/or stolen one |
| 00:25:28 | pamaury | If I win I could ask you a 100m long USB4 cable ! |
| 00:26:20 | [Saint] | Obviously, we need a port to the iPod Touch (<3G) |
| 00:26:24 | [Saint] | ~800MHZ |
| 00:26:28 | [Saint] | :) |
| 00:26:45 | pamaury | haha, yeah, that's the awesome final point of the discussion :) |
| 00:26:48 | gevaerts | pamaury: alright. A broken 1m or so microUSB cable :) |
| 00:27:20 | pamaury | [Saint]: please go ahead |
| 00:27:34 | pamaury | the fund will support you if you are successful ! |
| 00:28:00 | [Saint] | Wait....iff I'm successful? :) |
| 00:28:18 | AlexP | yeah, no funding for you :) |
| 00:28:31 | [Saint] | But...but...but...! |
| 00:30:10 | pamaury | actually I don't remember which players the fund bought me |
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| 11:34:25 | Bretos | hello |
| 11:34:44 | Bretos | I have put my sansa fuze somewhere and now I can't find it :< |
| 11:34:50 | Bretos | and that's sad :< |
| 11:35:34 | [Saint] | Sad *and* off-topic. :) |
| 11:36:29 | [Saint] | I sympathize, but this isn't the place for that. Perhaps a private detective or a psychic is in order. |
| 11:38:23 | Bretos | [Saint]: ok, sorry, I though it's not strictly support channel ;-) But if so, I won't interrupt anymore |
| 11:38:56 | [Saint] | #rockbox-community exists for general musings about unrelated topics |
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| 11:59:15 | lebellium | YP-R0 is powerful too, it has a iMX37 532MHz :) |
| 12:00 |
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| 12:44:57 | jlbiasini | pamaury: ping? |
| 12:45:02 | pamaury | pong |
| 12:45:29 | jlbiasini | I tried to run some battery test on f+ |
| 12:45:44 | jlbiasini | but it seems quite buggy |
| 12:46:15 | pamaury | ah ? |
| 12:46:40 | jlbiasini | It did goes throught the test and stopped |
| 12:47:04 | jlbiasini | displaying a freeze wps screen |
| 12:47:39 | pamaury | hum, with HEAD and cpu frequency scaling enabled ? |
| 12:48:17 | jlbiasini | I also have often a frozen device displaying a grey screen (this one is really nasty at least we should have blue screen right?) |
| 12:48:25 | jlbiasini | yes |
| 12:49:30 | pamaury | and without frequency scaling, does it work ? |
| 12:49:50 | jlbiasini | ah did not test yet |
| 12:50:41 | [Saint] | iiiiiiiiiiiiit's RoLo time! :) |
| 12:51:14 | jlbiasini | actually i said very buggy is a bit exagerating my device went over 21h without bugging playing over the same mp3 album |
| 12:52:24 | jlbiasini | [Saint]: lol, by the way thnks for having puting me into it I finally found option to have a 10 sec less bios time |
| 12:52:58 | jlbiasini | and no rolo pamaury didn't activated this in the tree |
| 12:53:06 | [Saint] | Ah. |
| 12:53:18 | pamaury | what do you mean by activate rolo ? |
| 12:53:46 | jlbiasini | pamaury : actually 21h is quite good, isn't it? |
| 12:54:15 | jlbiasini | 21h 13m 46s |
| 12:54:32 | pamaury | but the battery wasn't low right ?* |
| 12:54:35 | jlbiasini | your last test were about 16h isn't it |
| 12:55:15 | pamaury | with HEAD mine worked 39h with scaling enabled ! And it doesn't crash ! |
| 12:55:28 | jlbiasini | it is but there is still some juice |
| 12:56:44 | jlbiasini | do you know that sansa lied about the OF running 24h and having it running 20h for real!! |
| 12:57:13 | pamaury | anyway if it keep crashing on yours that a bad thing |
| 12:59:21 | jlbiasini | "keep" is a bit too much i thing it doess crash from time to time and this grey screen is definitly a new feature but 21h hours without crash might be sufficient |
| 12:59:53 | jlbiasini | anyway I had a few hang without scaling to (at least till now) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:11 | jlbiasini | I will run another test! |
| 13:02:07 | pamaury | crashes are obviously not sufficient, even after 21h ! And I especially don't understand why your last only 21h with HEAD + HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ |
| 13:02:32 | | Join thomasjfox_ [0] (~tomj@188-194-240-51-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 13:03:12 | pamaury | and in many cases in the device crashes it ends up in a half powered state which might very well suck your battery until the end |
| 13:03:20 | funman | jlbiasini: i guess sansa tests (and cheats) with the most efficient codec they have |
| 13:05:07 | pamaury | that's the same of us too, I used mp3 which is quite efficient I think |
| 13:05:48 | jlbiasini | I did it too with mp3 |
| 13:07:34 | jlbiasini | pamaury : well I will run a new test without scaling first |
| 13:08:24 | pamaury | do a complete rebuild of the codecs too |
| 13:08:42 | pamaury | (make clean && make -j 3 && make zip), I would hate a false report |
| 13:09:02 | jlbiasini | funman: if pamaury manages 39h it means nearly x2 in comparaison to OF |
| 13:09:29 | jlbiasini | pamaury : I always do so |
| 13:09:51 | pamaury | jlbiasini: if you were running a battery bench, it means you have the battery_bench.txt file, can you pastebin it ? |
| 13:09:54 | jlbiasini | rm -fr ./* |
| 13:10:10 | jlbiasini | ../tools/configure |
| 13:10:50 | [Saint] | ENOTYOURTERMINAL |
| 13:11:05 | [Saint] | ;) |
| 13:12:05 | jlbiasini | pamaury : ohoh no I set an album to play for ever, reset the playing time and unplug the fully charged device |
| 13:12:43 | jlbiasini | I thought I was forgetting something! were is this battery test option? in plugind? |
| 13:12:47 | pamaury | but you don't run the battery_bench plugin ? |
| 13:13:01 | jlbiasini | no! Stupid me! |
| 13:13:35 | pamaury | it's a plugin, it logs thez battery level every minute, that way you get much more information. It your device had crashed after 21hour with the battery half full, we would have known it |
| 13:14:46 | jlbiasini | right I remember now of this plugins... |
| 13:15:06 | [Saint] | It is quite likely that it does so, but it is also quite important that the selected playlist is larger than the available audio buffer to guarantee the buffer is refilled (a more accurate representation of usage) |
| 13:15:36 | jlbiasini | how much is the buffer? |
| 13:16:02 | [Saint] | Almost certainly smaller than a full album, but /maybe/ not. |
| 13:16:24 | jlbiasini | then I totaly screwed up! :D |
| 13:16:25 | pixelma | huh, as far as I understood, the playback system always fills it this way. If the playlist is shorter then it'll fill the buffer with "duplicates" I thought |
| 13:16:58 | [Saint] | pixelma: but, it wouldn't access the disk in that case? |
| 13:17:20 | [Saint] | That's the "important" bit. Disk access. |
| 13:18:02 | [Saint] | jlbiasini: Settings - System - Debug - Rockbox Info: Buffer |
| 13:18:03 | pixelma | I thought it did but I don't know |
| 13:18:12 | pixelma | for sure |
| 13:18:28 | jlbiasini | ok thanks |
| 13:18:29 | [Saint] | If the playlist fits entirely in RAM, it wouldn;t...I don;t think. |
| 13:18:41 | [Saint] | bah! I hate my ; key. |
| 13:19:44 | pamaury | When I run the test, I select my 100 songs playlist, that way I'm sure it doesn't fit |
| 13:19:52 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 13:21:21 | jlbiasini | right 59.2MB on my device |
| 13:24:53 | jlbiasini | hey you compiler guru, with 4 core, is it better with make -j 3 or make -j 4 and why? |
| 13:25:32 | pamaury | jlbiasini: out of curiosity, what is the lcd kind of your device ? (see debug > HW Info) |
| 13:25:50 | [Saint] | Kinda offtopic, but, it depends how much you're willing to "spend" on compilation in terms of CPU. |
| 13:26:05 | [Saint] | With 4 cores, you could easily do -j8 |
| 13:26:32 | [Saint] | cores*2 is usually quite safe |
| 13:26:48 | pamaury | I usually do 3 (2 cores + 1) |
| 13:27:04 | jlbiasini | pamaury : there is a lot of values there which one is to look for |
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| 13:27:21 | pamaury | "lcd kind", it's alone on a screen |
| 13:27:21 | jlbiasini | [Saint]: thanks |
| 13:28:01 | jlbiasini | st7783 |
| 13:28:35 | pamaury | ok, same as me |
| 13:29:09 | [Saint] | (-j* is the number of threads to spawn simultaneously, btw) |
| 13:29:14 | pamaury | also when you run the test, make you boot out of a proper state. Ie power off then power on, because rolo'ing after usb is unreliable |
| 13:30:48 | jlbiasini | pamaury: I never use rolo and for test I run with brand new compiled rockbox (no setting) |
| 13:31:06 | jlbiasini | no database either |
| 13:31:07 | pamaury | ok, I'll do the same here |
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| 13:34:01 | jlbiasini | but I build the zip with all fonts, i suppose it does not matter does it? |
| 13:40:21 | [Saint] | No. |
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| 13:54:59 | pamaury | jlbiasini: can you do the bench with HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ enabled ? Even if it crashes, with battery bench we'll a confirmation about the battery life |
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| 13:55:26 | jlbiasini | so first with scaling? |
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| 13:55:45 | jlbiasini | I hope it won't crash this time |
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| 13:56:28 | jlbiasini | OMG 39h would certainly be great!!! |
| 13:56:40 | pamaury | I would say that if it can stand 7h+, we already have a good trend about how long it would have lasted |
| 13:57:01 | wodz | pamaury: clang build for rk27xx still hang despite of not making use of interrupt attribute. naked attribute seems to be buggy btw. it adds bx lr at the end |
| 13:57:24 | pamaury | wodz: what if you write it in assembly ? |
| 13:57:33 | wodz | write what? |
| 13:57:45 | pamaury | irq_handler |
| 13:57:52 | wodz | irq_handler()? it is in assembly entirely |
| 13:58:09 | pamaury | no, you wrote it in inline assembly with naked |
| 13:58:19 | pamaury | no ? |
| 13:59:00 | wodz | right, but additional bx lr should not matter as it is inserted *after* subs pc, lr, #4 |
| 13:59:16 | pamaury | and does it insert something *before* ? |
| 13:59:20 | wodz | no |
| 13:59:24 | pamaury | ok |
| 14:00 |
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| 14:00:04 | wodz | http://pastie.org/5673686 |
| 14:01:44 | pamaury | so the bug is elsewhere |
| 14:03:04 | jlbiasini | pamaury : anyway I have to wait for the battery to fill up so if you correct some bug in the meantime let me know... |
| 14:03:32 | pamaury | I don't know why it crashes ! If I would, I would be happy to fix it ! |
| 14:07:22 | [Saint] | scorche`: Not at all important, but I just noticed that the option to remove ones own posts isn't available on the forum anymore. I don't /want/ to do so (at least at the present point), but I thought it was worth a mention. |
| 14:20:20 | | Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 14:21:04 | | Quit AlexP (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 14:22:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:25:35 | | Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury) |
| 14:34:56 | pamaury | wodz: I've posted to the llvm dev mailing list about arm irq/fiq interrupt, no answer yet |
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| 14:46:59 | | Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:00:32 | Hamsten | hi all |
| 15:00:56 | Hamsten | Have anyone in there? |
| 15:04:29 | Hamsten | ......... |
| 15:05:49 | | Quit Hamsten (Quit: Standard zsIRC quit-message (meh)) |
| 15:06:15 | | Quit amithkk (Quit: Planned maintenance, back soon) |
| 15:10:04 | lebellium | Here is the 1st screen of Rockbox on YP-R1 (hw similar to YP-R0): http://media.generationmp3.com/lebellium/R1/rockbox/20130112_150156.jpg :) |
| 15:15:34 | | Part Bretos |
| 15:30:37 | | Join Hamsten [0] (~Hamsten@119.4.252.153) |
| 15:35:22 | | Quit [Saint] (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:38:25 | | Quit jlbiasini (Remote host closed the connection) |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:00:23 | | Join amithkk [0] (uid4289@2buntu/writers/amithkk) |
| 16:08:20 | | Quit thomasjfox_ (Quit: Konversation terminated!) |
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| 16:14:52 | | Join jlbiasini [0] (~metaphysi@78.96.202.98) |
| 16:15:38 | jlbiasini | pamaury : ping? |
| 16:15:47 | pamaury | yes |
| 16:15:58 | jlbiasini | I have new on my grey screen bugs |
| 16:16:07 | pamaury | lebellium: great |
| 16:16:15 | pamaury | jlbiasini: yes ? |
| 16:16:20 | jlbiasini | The player doesn't actually hangs |
| 16:17:06 | jlbiasini | If one want for backlight to goes off and then touch the touchpad again the screen is back to normal displaying |
| 16:18:09 | Hamsten | oh.. look have someone can talk in there |
| 16:18:20 | Hamsten | Hi |
| 16:18:53 | Hamsten | jlbiasini:ping? |
| 16:18:55 | jlbiasini | one way to reproduce it is to set 2 or 3 albums into the playlist and while playing them, navigating through the playlist |
| 16:19:11 | jlbiasini | yes? |
| 16:19:30 | Hamsten | ...... |
| 16:19:43 | jlbiasini | hi |
| 16:20:05 | pamaury | Hamsten: ask your question if you have one |
| 16:20:16 | Hamsten | Hi.are you dever |
| 16:20:51 | Hamsten | The rockbox no ipod nano3 or later |
| 16:20:57 | Hamsten | I want to dev it |
| 16:22:00 | Hamsten | ............................................................................. |
| 16:22:11 | Hamsten | No answer?! |
| 16:22:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:22:43 | jlbiasini | Hamsten: Your question is not really clear... |
| 16:22:44 | Hamsten | I am not found source in home page |
| 16:23:44 | Hamsten | ok...... I dont know How to clear talk it. |
| 16:24:11 | jlbiasini | sources are on git |
| 16:24:24 | pamaury | Hamsten: don't be rude ! there are rules on irc ( http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IrcGuidelines ). If you want to help developing some target, you should get in touch we the developpers who know it. I'm not sure that some ipod devs are online right now |
| 16:25:04 | pamaury | you can always send a mail to the dev mailing list (http://www.rockbox.org/mail/) |
| 16:25:24 | jlbiasini | have a look here for sources: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/UsingGit |
| 16:25:44 | Hamsten | ok.. thanks |
| 16:26:11 | pamaury | jlbiasini: so you mean that the player doesn't hang ? Or that the Ui hangs ? I don't quite understand |
| 16:26:46 | jlbiasini | it seems to be only a screen/display problem |
| 16:28:02 | jlbiasini | can you reproduce it on your device? |
| 16:28:23 | pamaury | Ok, can you describe precisely what happen. If I understand correctly you do something (navigate though the playlist), the (how ? when ?) the screen goes gray/blue but if you wait for backlight off and press a button, everything is back to normal ? |
| 16:28:43 | jlbiasini | yes |
| 16:28:59 | pamaury | I was able to reproduce it ! |
| 16:29:09 | jlbiasini | good |
| 16:29:11 | pamaury | Ok, I think I know why it happens |
| 16:29:19 | jlbiasini | great |
| 16:29:22 | jlbiasini | why? |
| 16:30:45 | jlbiasini | ok I have to go for a while we'll talk later |
| 16:30:54 | pamaury | in lcd-fuzeplus.c, there is an inherent race condition between lcd_update() and the other lcd_* functions, because lcd_update() triggers a transfer but doesn't wait until it finishes. If the lcd_* function send commands while the screen is refreshing then it can do nasty things |
| 16:31:07 | pamaury | in theory that should not happen but... |
| 16:47:00 | | Join pretty_function [0] (~sigBART@123.252.212.20) |
| 16:48:27 | | Join [Saint] [0] (~saint@rockbox/user/saint) |
| 16:51:07 | | Quit Hamsten (Quit: Bye) |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:10:20 | | Quit Horscht (Quit: Verlassend) |
| 17:12:38 | [Saint] | And, the award for worst define name goes to... |
| 17:12:47 | [Saint] | PATCH_IPOD6G_CLOCKING_DEBUG :) |
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| 17:16:29 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-76-32-53.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 17:16:30 | Gremuchnik | My audiobooks have lots of small files all in one folder. How do I configure Rockbox to resume playing on the latest bookmark not for a file, but for a *folder*? Thanks! |
| 17:17:43 | | Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 17:18:09 | [Saint] | Errr.... |
| 17:18:15 | [Saint] | that makes no sense. |
| 17:19:50 | | Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 17:20:20 | Gremuchnik | ok, let me rephrase that: you have an audiobook in one subdirectory. that audiobook is composed of many files. How do you bookmark to have RB resume at the latest bookmark? |
| 17:21:50 | [Saint] | http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildch8.html#x11-1580008.7 |
| 17:21:59 | [Saint] | Load Last Bookmark - Yes/No/Ask |
| 17:22:56 | [Saint] | Searching the manual can be non-obvious sometimes, but the manual is your friend and mine. |
| 17:24:26 | Gremuchnik | this solution keeps track of several recent bookmarks. What I need RB to do is to keep track of only the LATEST bookmark made inside a folder. |
| 17:24:50 | [Saint] | With that set, if you resume playback on any given file with one or more bookmarks it will either load the last bookmark automatically or prompt you to either laod the last bookmark or resume from the beginning. |
| 17:25:41 | [Saint] | Maintain a list of recent bookmarks - Unique Only |
| 17:25:56 | [Saint] | "Add each new bookmark to the list of recently used bookmarks, but only keep one bookmark from the current directory or playlist; any previous entries are removed." |
| 17:26:06 | Gremuchnik | ok thanks! |
| 17:26:19 | [Saint] | Not a problem. |
| 17:26:28 | | Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
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| 17:28:53 | Gremuchnik | Also, I want to say to anyone involved in the RB project: THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an absolutely fantastic product. |
| 17:30:03 | * | [Saint] takes credit when credit is given |
| 17:30:06 | [Saint] | Thanks. |
| 17:30:23 | | Quit Gremuchnik (Quit: Бывайте ребята) |
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| 17:45:29 | | Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@62.83.50.196.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 17:45:49 | jhutson456 | does rockbox support the 160g ipod classic (link to product follows) http://www.apple.com/ipodclassic/ |
| 17:46:35 | gevaerts | jhutson456: yes, but not in a very easy to install way. See http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/IpodClassicPort for details |
| 17:46:57 | jhutson456 | thank you. |
| 17:47:30 | jhutson456 | Rockbox plays vorbis as well correct? I see an open bug about crashes |
| 17:47:47 | [Saint] | Yes, it does. |
| 17:48:48 | [Saint] | jhutson456: http://www.freemyipod.org/wiki/EmCORE_Installation |
| 17:48:54 | gevaerts | I don't know which bug you mean, but it probably involves very specific circumstances |
| 17:48:57 | [Saint] | (an interactive installer guide) |
| 17:49:30 | [Saint] | gevaerts: *ages* ago, I recall some crashes with some high bitrate vorbis. |
| 17:50:05 | jhutson456 | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12700?string=vorbis |
| 17:50:16 | jhutson456 | it's an android version so it may not be related |
| 17:51:35 | [Saint] | In theory, it _should_ be. |
| 17:51:45 | gevaerts | I'm fairly sure that's android-specific |
| 17:52:05 | gevaerts | Also, after looking at the bug that links to, I have a suspicion it's not vorbis-related |
| 17:52:18 | gevaerts | There's no clear indication he tested with other codecs |
| 17:52:27 | * | [Saint] nods |
| 17:52:39 | [Saint] | The test_files work, so, good enough for me. |
| 17:52:53 | [Saint] | afaik that == no problem. |
| 17:53:03 | jhutson456 | given it's ignored status and age I figured it was a wierd thing, not serious |
| 17:53:39 | | Join anewuser [0] (~anewuser@201.210.198.119) |
| 17:53:39 | | Quit anewuser (Changing host) |
| 17:53:39 | | Join anewuser [0] (~anewuser@unaffiliated/anewuser) |
| 17:54:05 | [Saint] | It's also an "unusable" port. |
| 17:54:13 | jhutson456 | I'm completely new to rockbox, is updating versious smooth or is it a full wipe/install every time |
| 17:54:32 | jhutson456 | this would be for my wife who is technophobic |
| 17:54:33 | jhutson456 | lol |
| 17:54:39 | [Saint] | Once you've installed, you can update with RockboxUtility trivially. |
| 17:54:58 | gevaerts | Updating is just unpacking a new zip file over the old installation, either manually or by letting Rockbox Utility do it |
| 17:55:07 | [Saint] | It is important to note, though, that installation will format the disk. |
| 17:55:12 | [Saint] | ALL data will be lost. |
| 17:55:17 | * | gevaerts lets [Saint] talk about the classic, since he has one :) |
| 17:55:20 | [Saint] | Also, there is no dual-boot. |
| 17:55:29 | jhutson456 | it'd be for a brand new device so no worries there |
| 17:55:35 | [Saint] | So, you will lose the Apple firmware. |
| 17:55:58 | [Saint] | This also means you will lost the ability to use most Apple accessories. |
| 17:56:13 | [Saint] | (We don't use the iPod Accessory Protocol on this device {yet}) |
| 17:56:14 | gevaerts | Well, you *can* restore the Apple firmware if you decide rockbox isn't for you after all |
| 17:56:15 | jhutson456 | earbuds work still correct? |
| 17:56:20 | [Saint] | Yes. |
| 17:56:31 | jhutson456 | that's really the only important thing |
| 17:56:44 | [Saint] | And, yes. Restoring the device to original state is very trivial. |
| 17:56:56 | jhutson456 | do you load music with itunes? |
| 17:57:12 | [Saint] | No. |
| 17:57:16 | [Saint] | Drag and Drop. |
| 17:57:18 | * | gevaerts recommends having a look at the simulator to get a feel about what rockbox is like to use |
| 17:57:56 | [Saint] | With Rockbox, the device essentially becomes a "dumb removable storage device" |
| 17:58:05 | [Saint] | So, it works just like a USB thumb drive would. |
| 17:59:00 | [Saint] | Drag and Drop audio...Rockbox automagically detects it in the Database (if enabled), or allows you to explore/playback via the file browser. |
| 17:59:25 | | Quit lebellium (Read error: Network is unreachable) |
| 17:59:54 | | Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@lns-c10k-ld-02-m-212-194-176-149.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:03:24 | [Saint] | Though, I believe you *can* use iTunes to load music onto the device. |
| 18:03:40 | * | [Saint] is fairly certain that iTunes can sync to non-iPod devices |
| 18:03:47 | gevaerts | Not vorbis, I bet |
| 18:04:03 | [Saint] | Ah, yes, good call. |
| 18:04:41 | jhutson456 | I'm actually really interested in rockbox now lol. What would be a good cheap starter device for checking it out? |
| 18:04:50 | jhutson456 | get something for myself lolz |
| 18:06:07 | [Saint] | SanDisk Sansa Clip(V2/+/), SanDisk Sansa Fuze |
| 18:06:13 | [Saint] | ...something like this. |
| 18:06:28 | jhutson456 | sweet, hitting up amazon :-) |
| 18:06:35 | [Saint] | Cheap little flash based players with removable storage |
| 18:07:39 | * | [Saint] claims the Classic can be cheap, but only because the sales clerk messed up a decimal point and sold one to him for $0.79 |
| 18:10:15 | pamaury | jlbiasini: actually, the problem might come from cpu frequency scaling: if that happens in the middle of transfer to the lcd, it can break dma by stopping access to the framebuffer, I need to check this |
| 18:10:17 | jhutson456 | those sansa clips can swap the 4g storage for larger SD cards? |
| 18:10:25 | jhutson456 | damn, how have I missed this... |
| 18:10:53 | | Quit Shinobi (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 18:11:20 | [Saint] | No, they can use an sdcard in *addition* to the 2/4/8Gb internal storage. |
| 18:11:30 | jhutson456 | oh snap! that's even cooler |
| 18:11:45 | [Saint] | Max storage capacity of 40GB (32GB+8GB) |
| 18:11:50 | jhutson456 | I've just always used my Android for music playing but that has it's drawbacks |
| 18:12:03 | [Saint] | fwiw, we have an Android port too :) |
| 18:12:20 | [Saint] | Oh, but, you knew that... |
| 18:12:41 | jhutson456 | yeah, I don't want to touch my android. I'm happy with it. |
| 18:12:52 | jlbiasini | pamaury : that would explain why this bug came suddently after activating it! |
| 18:13:00 | lebellium | isn't max storage capacity 64GB + 8GB ? :) |
| 18:13:04 | jhutson456 | I'm gonna be experimenting with getting Arch set up on it though |
| 18:13:11 | [Saint] | There's no "hacking" involved. It installs as any other Android application does. |
| 18:13:15 | jhutson456 | (Arch Linux I mean) |
| 18:13:16 | jhutson456 | oh |
| 18:13:16 | [Saint] | Just a standard .apk file |
| 18:13:24 | jlbiasini | So what now should I perform the test anyway or wait that you patch this? |
| 18:13:49 | jhutson456 | bah, gotta run, kids piano lessons. be back later though |
| 18:13:56 | [Saint] | o/ |
| 18:15:46 | | Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-76-32-53.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 18:16:10 | jhutson456 | before I go, do the 64g cards work? |
| 18:16:30 | | Quit pretty_function (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 18:16:37 | lebellium | that's why I said "isn't max storage capacity 64GB + 8GB ?" :) |
| 18:16:46 | lebellium | reformated in FAT32 it should work |
| 18:17:17 | [Saint] | Well...half and half. |
| 18:17:35 | [Saint] | It will work in Rockbox, but not in the original firmware...but, I guess you don;t care about that. |
| 18:18:49 | * | [Saint] almost forgot that 64GB microsd was actually a thing |
| 18:20:00 | | Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 18:22:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:28:50 | pamaury | jlbiasini: that's it, the dma underflows, nasty |
| 18:32:04 | [Saint] | I'm sure jlbiasini isn't /that/ nasty ;) |
| 18:32:29 | jlbiasini | :D |
| 18:34:29 | pamaury | the more I think about it, the more I think it's impossible to properly clock down ! You change the emi freq you need to disconnect the ddr for a small amount of time, thus breaking virtually all dma transfers, including lcd, mmc, i2c, ... |
| 18:34:40 | pamaury | *To change |
| 18:36:51 | pamaury | The linux port to the stmp3780 for sigmatel doesn't seem to do anything special, how can that be ?! |
| 18:37:40 | jlbiasini | isn't it possible somehow to wait for the good moment to disconnect ddr |
| 18:38:03 | jlbiasini | or are those dma transfert permanent? |
| 18:38:28 | pamaury | it's possible sure, but complicated |
| 18:38:41 | pamaury | well, no *that* complicated but no trivial |
| 18:38:47 | pamaury | *not |
| 18:42:47 | pamaury | what puzzles me is that 1) I've never thought about this problem before 2) I don't recall seeing anything in any source code to handle this in a particular way |
| 18:44:38 | jlbiasini | According to what you say it's also strange that the problem occuring only concern display |
| 18:45:08 | jlbiasini | if it is breaking all dma transfert I assumed it should totally mixed up the device |
| 18:47:59 | pamaury | well, if the hardware is well done, this is not necessarily the case: i2c clock can be stretched so in case of underflow, the host can simply stop clocking and recover, it appears as a slow down but is allowed. For the mmc, that's more or less the same, the spec is a bit vague but chips must be able to handle clock changes. So perhaps there is something special with the lcd or the dma controller of the lcd is not clever enough or a has a |
| 18:47:59 | pamaury | special setting to handle that |
| 18:48:29 | pamaury | actually i2c and ssp have a underflow irq so I might check |
| 18:49:25 | pamaury | but part of the answer is probably that i2c and ssp transfers are mostly done by the main thread which also takes care of cpu scaling, so it can't do both at the same time ! |
| 18:50:32 | pamaury | anyway i2c is damn slow and has a fifo big enough for virtually all transfers. And ssp well, the clock is very high but transfers are short so the buffer might be big enough |
| 18:51:53 | jlbiasini | so If it seems that display is the only problem, couldn't the LCD driver be modified to handle those dma break? |
| 18:52:44 | jlbiasini | like some kind of cache or something (I really don't know what I'm talking about I'm just elaboring from what you are saying) |
| 18:52:48 | pamaury | might be but I'm not confident enough, I would like to understand this issue better before doing anything |
| 18:54:33 | jlbiasini | ok so I'll will try the test anyway |
| 18:55:37 | pamaury | answer for ssp: the hardware stop the clock on {under,over}flow, so it's smart |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:14 | | Join AbortedData [0] (~462dadf9@www.haxx.se) |
| 19:01:18 | AbortedData | Hello! My rockboxed iPod Classic has recently begun to get Data Aborts as soon as I try to alter the files on a desktop. The address is 0x7B5815F3. Any help? |
| 19:09:50 | | Join sentriz [0] (~Senan@78.143.151.93) |
| 19:12:45 | | Quit sentriz (Client Quit) |
| 19:22:40 | | Quit AbortedData (Quit: CGI:IRC) |
| 19:24:51 | | Join SuperBrainAK [0] (~Andy@71-36-165-101.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 19:35:02 | pamaury | jlbiasini: apparently the lcdif has a recover function, i've just tested and it seems to work |
| 19:35:33 | pamaury | when scrolling lists it just seems a bit "glitchy" but that's because we don't boost on scroll I guess |
| 19:36:52 | [Saint] | I thought all targets were supposed to boost on UI action? |
| 19:36:59 | jlbiasini | ok, would you push it now or do you want to run some more test on this issue first (Just to know if I should rewind my already started battery test) |
| 19:38:00 | | Join Smokeout [0] (ident@46-127-89-22.dynamic.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:38:03 | [Saint] | pamaury: have a look at http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/8668 |
| 19:38:05 | Smokeout | hi |
| 19:38:22 | Smokeout | Question Rockbox Work on iPod Touch 5 [? |
| 19:38:22 | [Saint] | It is enabled only for targets with a scroll wheel, but, I guess it could be expanded for all? |
| 19:38:37 | [Saint] | Smokeout: No. Our main page clearly lists supported targets. |
| 19:38:44 | Smokeout | thx |
| 19:38:45 | pamaury | yeah I think it would definitely make sense of the fuze+ |
| 19:39:14 | [Saint] | Sorry, I thought it was enabled for all targets. I was mistaken. |
| 19:39:29 | | Join lebellium_ [0] (~chatzilla@lns-c10k-ld-02-m-212-194-176-149.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 19:41:21 | [Saint] | pamaury: I _think_ it is as simple as defining HAVE_GUI_BOOST |
| 19:41:32 | pamaury | ah ok, thanks |
| 19:41:43 | [Saint] | Don;t quote me on this ;) |
| 19:42:05 | jlbiasini | those hidden define stuff are killing us! :D |
| 19:42:11 | [Saint] | Ah, looks like that is the case. |
| 19:42:47 | | Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 19:42:55 | | Nick lebellium_ is now known as lebellium (~chatzilla@lns-c10k-ld-02-m-212-194-176-149.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 19:43:09 | [Saint] | On my ToDo list is: "Make a template of available defines to assist porting to new targets" |
| 19:43:18 | | Quit Smokeout (Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 3.2 (July '10)) |
| 19:43:27 | [Saint] | It's about 1/4 way down the list, no far away :) |
| 19:44:23 | jlbiasini | I guess some sed expert could do that quite lightly |
| 19:45:09 | [Saint] | Yes and no. See, I don;t just want to list them, but also comment them...so I need to track them through the source and find out what the non-obviously named ones actually do :P |
| 19:45:16 | pamaury | [Saint]: I was aware of that gui boost thing but I thought it wasn't committed in fact |
| 19:45:24 | [Saint] | Making a list of all defines is easy. Commenting, not so much. |
| 19:45:45 | [Saint] | pamaury: It got in in 3.11 |
| 19:46:00 | jlbiasini | ok I thought they were all commented already |
| 19:46:05 | [Saint] | Actually, I thought the same, though, which is why I took the link from the tracker. |
| 19:46:12 | [Saint] | I thought it was an abandoned patch. |
| 19:46:23 | | Join sentriz [0] (~Senan@78.143.151.93) |
| 19:48:56 | jlbiasini | lol a troyan patch! |
| 19:49:41 | * | pamaury just discovered the LCD_EVENT_ACTIVATION event |
| 19:50:18 | [Saint] | What does that do? |
| 19:51:49 | pamaury | went the lcd is enabled by lcd_enable(), drivers must send lcd_event_activation |
| 19:52:05 | pamaury | it appears to be used to redraw the screen in sbs and mpegplayer ?! |
| 19:52:35 | [Saint] | Ah...*that* may be (is?) why the LCD is being "Weird (TM)"? |
| 19:58:29 | wodz | pamaury: did you look at rk27xx usb crash log by any chance? |
| 19:58:53 | pamaury | wodz: no, I'll finish my stuff about broken lcdif on imx233 and then I'll have a look |
| 20:00 |
| 20:09:00 | wodz | pamaury: can't you gate clock to dma engine to suspend transfer? |
| 20:09:45 | pamaury | no, lcdif has a dedicated dma, but it has a underflow recovery function, seems to work well |
| 20:10:19 | | Quit melmothX (Quit: bau) |
| 20:10:48 | | Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx) |
| 20:14:39 | pamaury | hum, HAVE_GUI_BOOST only works for scrolling and needs to have BUTTON_SCROLL_{BACK,FWD} defined |
| 20:15:17 | wodz | famoust ipodish hack :P |
| 20:15:34 | [Saint] | Bah! |
| 20:15:46 | * | [Saint] really doesn't understand how it got in like that. |
| 20:15:53 | pamaury | yeah, seems ugly |
| 20:16:12 | [Saint] | There doesn't seem to be any reason to limit this to scrollwheel based targets |
| 20:16:57 | pamaury | I understand you might not want to boost on discrete events of the gui but basically as soon as you "repeat" a button, you want to scroll imo, or as soon as you repeat sufficiently many times |
| 20:17:29 | wodz | I guess its because that scrollwheel behave like quadrature encoder - it generates 4x interrupts then nominal ticks per revolution. I guess this could be lost if cpu is not in boost mode. |
| 20:18:02 | [Saint] | Ah, good call. But, it ruins the opportunity to get annoyed about something :) |
| 20:18:30 | wodz | another weirdness of scrollwheel is that it doesn't emit REL events :P |
| 20:18:39 | pamaury | yeah but on the fuze+ you then have slowdowns when scrolling :-/ |
| 20:18:46 | bertrik | could be, but the sad thing is that we apparently don't even know why we do it like that |
| 20:19:01 | wodz | bertrik: do what? |
| 20:19:07 | bertrik | boost on scroll |
| 20:19:37 | pamaury | huh, could you develop ? |
| 20:19:57 | wodz | As I said ipods (maybe e200 also) are the only targets that may need this |
| 20:20:29 | bertrik | are you sure or is that a guess, is it documented somewhere? |
| 20:20:38 | wodz | sure it isn't |
| 20:20:50 | pamaury | it seems very scrollwheel specific |
| 20:20:59 | wodz | Thats my feeling after digging for lack of REL event |
| 20:22:06 | pamaury | jlbiasini: can you update to HEAD, enable HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ and start torturing your fuze+ again ? If you can't get the grey screen, than I advise you start a battery bench with HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ :) |
| 20:22:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:22:20 | pamaury | ok, time to have a look at rk27xx usb :( |
| 20:22:48 | jlbiasini | pamaury: thanks! Oh quite busy uh?! |
| 20:24:01 | pamaury | well, I'm trying to help wodz on usb |
| 20:26:25 | pamaury | wodz: very strange, the transfers fails with "connection reset by peer", never seen this on usb |
| 20:28:25 | jlbiasini | pamaury: shouldn't I also define HAVE_GUI_BOOST? |
| 20:28:57 | pamaury | jlbiasini: no, it won't compile and is not need, the interface might just feel a bit slow but that's better than a crash ! |
| 20:29:14 | jlbiasini | right ok |
| 20:31:02 | pamaury | wodz: the log don't help, rockbox doesn't seem to see anything strange and the kernel just fails with a mysterious error |
| 20:31:33 | wodz | lovely |
| 20:31:35 | pamaury | I suggest that you enable the error and void irq for endpoints and panic to see |
| 20:31:57 | wodz | ok |
| 20:32:51 | pamaury | that's very weird, because if the stack was doing something wrong it would most probably not work up to this point |
| 20:33:26 | pamaury | and this strange error...since like the device is going offline somehow |
| 20:33:40 | pamaury | because the interrupt poll fails with "no device" |
| 20:37:33 | jlbiasini | pamaury: there are still some nasty hang |
| 20:37:47 | jlbiasini | some time just while playing |
| 20:38:06 | jlbiasini | sometime while inserting album into playlist |
| 20:38:30 | jlbiasini | no more sound screen frozen |
| 20:39:12 | pamaury | hangs in the interface you mean ? |
| 20:39:46 | jlbiasini | I mean complete bug. only hard reboot solution |
| 20:40:00 | pamaury | huh |
| 20:40:35 | jlbiasini | try inserting new song in playlist: I just had 3 crash out of 4 tries |
| 20:41:58 | jlbiasini | but abviously its not happening all the time |
| 20:42:00 | pamaury | I don't get any freeze |
| 20:43:32 | jlbiasini | right not I don't either anymore VERY STRANGE |
| 20:43:51 | pamaury | hah, managed to, interesting, it seems that if the playing is very large it works, otherwise it fails |
| 20:44:06 | pamaury | *play list |
| 20:44:20 | jlbiasini | good i m not crazy |
| 20:44:49 | jlbiasini | haha that would explain why it occurs only with some albums |
| 20:45:02 | pamaury | seems very random though |
| 20:45:27 | jlbiasini | yes this will be tricky to debbug |
| 20:47:16 | pamaury | that's incredibly puzzling, the emi freq change itself seems to be very dangerous, probably breaks dma, perhaps a data transfer then, or i2c despite what the manual says |
| 20:48:01 | pamaury | also it's incredible how you manage to stumble on bugs immediately, very useful feature ;) |
| 20:48:12 | jlbiasini | inserting single song in an empty playlist seems to be a good way to reproduce |
| 20:48:32 | jlbiasini | I m kind of lucky! |
| 20:48:37 | wodz | pamaury: on VOID and ERR panicf() or logf() ? |
| 20:48:37 | jlbiasini | :D |
| 20:48:40 | pamaury | yeah but I had to do it ten times before successfully freezing |
| 20:48:43 | pamaury | wodz: panic |
| 20:49:10 | pamaury | to see if by chance it happen when this bug occurs |
| 20:50:39 | jlbiasini | ok so I guess there no use to try a battery bench for the moment |
| 20:51:14 | pamaury | jlbiasini: that would be interesting to confirm the batter life though, just don't touch the player once you started the tes |
| 20:51:15 | pamaury | t |
| 20:52:13 | jlbiasini | I'll will still be there till around midnight so if you have any other fix I will test them and then go to bed with a battery test |
| 20:56:49 | wodz | pamaury: I get void condition on cabel plug on ep3 :P |
| 20:57:15 | pamaury | wodz: ok, disable void then, it's probably not that anyway |
| 20:58:17 | * | [Saint] has a derp moment |
| 20:58:42 | [Saint] | I thought of a really obvious use for JdGordon's g334 that I hadn't thought of before. |
| 20:58:45 | fs-bluebot | Gerrit review #334 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/334 : skin_engine: new tag %xx to see if a file exists... %xx(/path/to/file) by Jonathan Gordon (changes/34/334/1) |
| 20:58:46 | | Quit Raptors_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) |
| 20:58:49 | | Join Raptors [0] (~Raptors@dsl-67-204-57-42.acanac.net) |
| 20:59:25 | [Saint] | Namely: Checking to see if a font exists, and implementing multiple fallbacks |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:13 | [Saint] | [Saint] - (log) remember to test this, if you don't, you are a huge jerk-face. |
| 21:00:23 | derf | 1 |
| 21:01:21 | wodz | pamaury: nope, error condition irq does not trigger |
| 21:11:53 | wodz | pamaury: http://pastie.org/5675051 I recall previous dmesg was truncated |
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| 21:18:27 | dfkt | is there a wiki page about the capabilities of theme.cfg? the wps wiki page doesn't include features like line selector variants, etc |
| 21:18:51 | | Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) |
| 21:20:12 | [Saint] | dfkt: Can you answer me a question, before I answer yours? |
| 21:20:21 | dfkt | i will try :) |
| 21:20:23 | | Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@62.83.50.196.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 21:20:56 | [Saint] | A serious question. It may seem like piss-taking, but, I'm serious: What the flying fudge-cakes is it that makes people go to the wiki for info over the manual? |
| 21:21:11 | [Saint] | I need to know this. So I can kill it with fire. |
| 21:21:54 | [Saint] | Is it something we're doing wrong? Poisoned Google results? Other? |
| 21:21:55 | dfkt | not sure what you mean. the wps page with all its info is in the wiki, the simple guide as well... |
| 21:22:40 | [Saint] | The manual is *the* place to go. Everything on the wiki that isn't a NewPort page (and a lot of NewPort pages even) should be considered out-of-date. |
| 21:23:08 | [Saint] | And, to answer your question, here: http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-ipodvideo/rockbox-buildap5.html#x21-416000E |
| 21:23:35 | [Saint] | that _should_ be a full list of config options. |
| 21:24:01 | dfkt | ok, i went to the manual page, looked around, found stuff relevant to theming under the advanced topics section - but that is way less info than on the wps wiki page |
| 21:24:34 | dfkt | heh, i see.. split between chapter 12 and appendix E |
| 21:24:37 | [Saint] | the .wps wiki page shouldn't have a lot of those options. |
| 21:24:56 | [Saint] | ...as a giant shit-tonne of them don;t apply to the .wps/.sbs./.fms at all. |
| 21:25:57 | dfkt | i guess then a big fat disclaimer that the manual should be consulted over the wps wiki page is in order? |
| 21:26:27 | [Saint] | I really didn't think it was needed. But, it seems it may be. |
| 21:26:38 | dfkt | maybe that answers your initial question - i had no idea the wiki page was not the main source for that kind of info |
| 21:26:47 | [Saint] | The manual is official documentation, whereas the wiki is the equivalent of "Some Internet Guy Said So" |
| 21:27:29 | [Saint] | Anyone with a wiki account could poison the wiki with bs for lulz if they wanted, and it would be pretty hard to notice them doing so. |
| 21:28:15 | [Saint] | If you notice something in the manual wrt: config/skin_engine, make a note of it. |
| 21:28:25 | [Saint] | *something missing |
| 21:29:00 | [Saint] | And also, thanks. |
| 21:29:12 | [Saint] | You did indeed answer my question. |
| 21:30:19 | dfkt | well, i used the wps wiki from the beginning on, force of habit, since it was there - my fault for not paying attention to the immensely updated manual topics |
| 21:30:30 | [Saint] | If you didn't find it, you want: |
| 21:30:30 | [Saint] | "selector type pointer, bar (inverse) , bar (color), bar (gradient)" |
| 21:31:06 | dfkt | thanks :) |
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| 21:49:08 | pamaury | [Saint]: I think your ennemy is google and lazyness :) |
| 21:49:59 | wodz | pamaury: any other idea what I could test? |
| 21:50:09 | pamaury | and perhaps the fact that many manuals are useless so users don't have the habit of checking manuals. |
| 21:50:30 | pamaury | wodz: no :( I think this will have to wait until I go back and check with the usb analyzer |
| 21:51:58 | wodz | pamaury: but you said you couldn't reproduce the bug |
| 21:52:23 | pamaury | then I'll try harder, request all the computers of all my housemates and more ^^ |
| 21:52:41 | | Quit Raptors (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
| 21:53:55 | pamaury | that's the advantage of the usb analyzer: the analyzing computer doesn't need to be the bugging host |
| 21:56:07 | lebellium | a manual is for a particular device and ome targets don't have a manual yet while skin engine is common to all targets. That really doesn't make sense to look at it for that. Thank you [Saint] for the config file options page, like probably most users I never saw it and I still like the wiki page better :P |
| 21:59:54 | wodz | this random red shit in build table becomes annoying |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:47 | dfkt | lebellium, yes, and that config manual page contains all rockbox config options merged into one list, not just the ones for a theme.cfg. it's a bit harder to look through for theming relevant options |
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| 22:05:05 | | Quit Rower85 (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 22:11:00 | [Saint] | dfkt: that would be because it isn't specific to themeing. |
| 22:11:14 | | Quit sentriz (Quit: Leaving) |
| 22:11:19 | [Saint] | It is covering the entire config/fixed.cfg |
| 22:11:34 | | Join Xerion [0] (~xerion@5419F5F4.cm-5-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) |
| 22:12:43 | [Saint] | And, you guys are right...in some ways. |
| 22:13:03 | [Saint] | Even I don't necessarily think the manual is the /right/ place for this...but, the wiki sure isn't. |
| 22:13:50 | [Saint] | What we really need is a dedicated themeing resource. |
| 22:13:56 | [Saint] | ...other than CustomWPS |
| 22:14:14 | [Saint] | But even then, all the config options would need to be in the manual still. |
| 22:14:24 | [Saint] | (again, because it's not themeing specific) |
| 22:14:45 | lebellium | sure that would better to have a dedicated themeing resource but as we know nobody will do that, CustomWPS will remain the reference resource for most theme designers :) |
| 22:16:10 | [Saint] | If I was motivated enough a day or so ago, it wouldn't exist anymore :) |
| 22:17:47 | * | [Saint] does NOT want an "official" document that several hundred people can poison with wrong/misleading/irrelevant information at the drp of a hat |
| 22:17:56 | [Saint] | *drop |
| 22:20:06 | [Saint] | Another problem with the wiki as an official document is that there is absolutely no obligation for a developer adding a new feature, or editing an old feature, to update it. |
| 22:20:49 | [Saint] | But documentation can easily be added as a barrier for acceptance to the commit process, and it is expected to be so. |
| 22:20:52 | lebellium | I don't believe CustomWPS has been poisoned because everybody can edit it. It's not up-to-date and if only a few people could edit it as you wish, that would be still worse, not up-to-date at all, wouldn't it? |
| 22:21:13 | [Saint] | It's not even mildly up-to-date now. |
| 22:21:33 | [Saint] | And, neither is the manual *because* there are two sources of information. |
| 22:21:55 | [Saint] | It is very hard to keep two entirely seperate sources of information up-to-date. |
| 22:22:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:23:39 | wodz | unless you generate one from the other |
| 22:24:11 | [Saint] | If that kind of magic could be done, that would be great. |
| 22:25:33 | [Saint] | Latex>wiki_whatever may be non-trivial, though. I don't know. Latex and I do't really get along, but we will if we have to :) |
| 22:26:53 | wodz | I think creating aggregated html page from latex source should be doable. |
| 22:29:13 | [Saint] | well...that's, curious. |
| 22:29:28 | [Saint] | several ports on http://www.rockbox.org/manual.shtml are shown, but don't have a manual. |
| 22:29:45 | [Saint] | Unless both Chrome *and* FF are being weird to me? |
| 22:30:38 | [Saint] | all the samsungs, the m-robe, the gogears, hifiman... |
| 22:31:32 | wodz | doesn't this page show all stable + unstable targets? |
| 22:32:24 | [Saint] | ...apparently. But it seems a bit weird to show targets without a manual on the page specifically for manuals :) |
| 22:32:48 | lebellium | it's to remind the devs there is much work to do :D |
| 22:33:08 | wodz | the fix is easy - write the missing manuals :P |
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