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#rockbox log for 2013-02-17

00:04:17 Join saratoga [0] (4160ac54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
00:04:36saratogaJdGordon: what do you mean?
00:05:22pamauryJdGordon: what do you mean by bare minimum ?
00:05:42JdGordonI'm toying with the idea of porting rockbox to work hypervisor (so it owuld run in a virtualised environment), and i want to make sure its actually feasble before i start
00:07:10saratogawhat does the hypervisor provide?
00:07:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:08:05saratogaassuming its capable of running a normal operating system, iassume it can run rockbox
00:08:08JdGordonfull control over hardware if needed (though im aiming to not use that), virtual IRQs, a number of timers
00:08:43JdGordonit runs linux, so probably?
00:08:59JdGordondo we use any hardware feautres for threads or anything?
00:09:06pamauryyou will need to stub a number of drivers of course (lcd ?), but you surely need a timer at least (two is better)
00:09:17pamaurywith irq
00:09:46 Quit stoffel (Remote host closed the connection)
00:11:08saratogawhy a hypervisor?
00:11:37JdGordoni figured it would make an interesting demo for work, and im bored :p
00:11:48JdGordonotherwsie totally useless
00:11:53saratogaah ok
00:12:53JdGordonthe actual hardware would be the pandaboard
00:19:06 Quit saratoga (Quit: Page closed)
00:22:58 Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
00:29:32^7heothanks for answering my question (a way back)
00:29:52^7heospecial thanks to pamaury who did answer right after I asked
00:30:12 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
00:30:28^7heoBefore I leave, I have one last question: what is the cheapest rockbox-capable player available :P
00:30:45^7heo(I guess it depends where I buy it; so let's say a set of the least expensive ones if possible :))
00:30:51gevaertsProbably the clip zip
00:30:59^7heothanks :)
00:31:00gevaertsIf you want new, anyway
00:31:06gevaertsSecond hand, who knows?
00:31:32^7heoit's only 40€
00:31:41^7heoand it's got 8GB
00:31:58^7heoI paid 41€ for my GoGEAR
00:32:05^7heoI'm gonna order it I guess
00:33:33^7heoThe screen is really small
00:33:48CinosI got a clip zip
00:33:57Cinosthen I lost it
00:33:57^7heoLike this one?
00:34:44 Quit SuperBrainAK (Remote host closed the connection)
00:35:00^7heo(just to check that this is a zip clip)
00:35:03gevaertsThat's a clip plus
00:35:13gevaertsIt will also work though
00:35:21^7heookay :D
00:35:26^7heois it better than the zip cliip?
00:35:41gevaertsThey're very similar, except the zip has a colour screen
00:36:00*gevaerts didn't know the + was still easily available
00:36:00^7heozip plus you mean?
00:36:23gevaertsclip plus
00:36:31^7heosorry yes
00:36:40 Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik)
00:36:46^7heoyou mean their similar, excepted that the clip plus has color screen?
00:36:53 Join SuperBrainAK [0] (
00:36:59gevaertsThe clip zip has a colour screen
00:37:06^7heoand not the clip plus?
00:37:06gevaertsThe clip plus is monochrome
00:37:16^7heo'cause the photo shows a color screen
00:37:23gevaertsyellow/black for the top bit, and blue/black for the rest
00:37:40^7heobut the screen has the same size in both?
00:38:02gevaertsI'm not sure of the exact sizes. Both are tiny
00:38:30*^7heo does not understand the point of having color for very tiny screens.
00:39:45bertrikIIRC, clip+ is 128x48, the clip zip has 96x96 pixels
00:40:16^7heoclip + is 128x48 dual tone
00:40:23^7heoand clip zip is 96x96 color ?
00:41:43gevaerts128x48 for the blue bit, 128x16 for the yellow bit
00:42:14^7heoso the color screen is even smaller?!
00:45:20gevaertsSo no. The pixels are bigger
00:45:26 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
00:45:35^7heoI hate google.
00:46:07^7heosorry, it's not on topic.
00:46:30Cinosthen use bing
00:46:31*Cinos shrugs
00:50:39^7heoI use duckduckgo
00:50:48Cinosoh ok
00:50:50^7heobut it's about gmail
00:50:57^7heoI'm forced to use that for work
00:51:00^7heogoogle apps and all
00:51:04CinosI use google apps
00:51:20Cinoswhat would you rather use?
00:51:51Cinosoh, is that a thing
00:52:03CinosI'm so out of it. ._.
00:52:07gevaertsThere is a topic here
00:52:15CinosChannel topic is: In Feature Freeze for 3.13 | Please read before speaking: | Please direct offtopic/social chat to #rockbox-community | This channel is logged at
00:52:36gevaertsSo please keep off-topic stuff elsewhere
00:52:39^7heoyeah yeah
00:52:43Cinosare you an op
00:52:51^7heoI already apologized 'bout it.
00:52:54Mode"#rockbox +o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
00:53:00gevaertsyes, I am
00:53:08Cinosthat's okay
00:53:08^7heoSo again
00:53:22^7heoI'm sorry 'bout havin ranted here about google.
00:53:25CinosNot really in the position to care
00:53:27^7heoit's not the place I agree.
00:53:35Cinosback to doing stuff and idling~
00:53:48CinosPeople usually like me until I talk :P
00:53:52Mode"#rockbox +q Cinos!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:54:01Mode"#rockbox +q ^7heo!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:54:23gevaertsOK, so you're now muted for a few minutes
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00:57:54Mode"#rockbox -q ^7heo!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:57:58Mode"#rockbox -q Cinos!*@*" by gevaerts (~fg@rockbox/developer/gevaerts)
00:58:04Mode"#rockbox -o gevaerts" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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00:59:10 Part ^7heo
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01:26:17Mode"#rockbox +o bertrik" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
01:26:55Mode"#rockbox -o bertrik" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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09:12:44 Join Dead_Body [0] (
09:13:24Dead_Bodyhello. i have an image of the firmware that is on the clip+ that is sold by the b.o.p. does anyone want it?
09:15:26 Join mortalis [0] (~mortalis@
09:25:14[Saint]Dead_Body: "b.o.p"?
09:25:24Dead_Bodybureau of prisons
09:26:01*[Saint] is confused.
09:26:36Dead_Bodythe bop sells mp3 players to the inmates now. they have modified sandisk firmware that requires to be updated once every 14 days and also hides all the music on the mp3 player when you plug it up.
09:27:02[Saint]Unless whatever the b.o.p is entered some exclusive agreement with SanDisk, it is irrelevant.
09:27:30[Saint]We don;t need "the original firmware from the device", but rather "on original firmware for the device", and I'm betting any from SanDisk will do.
09:27:32Dead_Bodyi been hacking around and figured out that recovery mode must be used to update with original sandisk firmware but a program such as photorec is required to get all the music back
09:28:05Dead_Bodywell you cannot do updates unless it is in recovery mode
09:28:28Dead_Bodyi was just curious if anyone wanted to reverse engineer it, i dont have time
09:28:33[Saint]What they're doing with the firmware is irrelevant as far as Rockbox is concerned I'm pretty sure, but it may be interesting to look at it.
09:28:59Dead_Bodyyeah it has nothing to do with rockbox, but i know some hacker types might be interested
09:29:04[Saint]The updating thing seems, it is different to how any other update is performed.
09:29:21[Saint]The device just looks for a firmware file on the storage, and runs it.
09:30:15Dead_Bodyyeah it dont do that, it stores the mp3's somewhere off the filesystem but keeps record of where they are. you have to send 25$ to the people who did the mod for them to unlock it, but i figured out how to do it instead
09:30:19n1s[Saint]: possibly they've disabled the regular update procedure in this version
09:30:37[Saint]Dead_Body: That just sounds like MSC vs MTP mode.
09:30:47[Saint]rather than special "hide the files from the prisoners mode"
09:31:13Dead_Bodymaybe so. i dont know i been in prison for awhile and dont know about mp3 players.
09:31:22[Saint]Yes, this probably would be interesting to look at. Not for Rockbox's POV, but, in general.
09:31:42Dead_Bodybut i did flash new firmware with sansa *.18 version and files still hidden.
09:32:17[Saint]MSC/MTP is in the settings somewhere.
09:32:18Dead_Bodyi was using mtp mode and still not visible. i copied a new song and it updated and they all went away. thankfully i made a disk image of the 8gb to find my files.
09:32:38Dead_Bodydefault 'prisoner mode' doesnt let you access all the settings, no changing usb mode
09:33:10*[Saint] is baffled by all this...
09:33:21[Saint]Prison DAPs are a very new idea to me ;)
09:33:35Dead_Bodywant the file? ill try dcc
09:33:37[Saint]If you asked me about it yesterday, I'd have called you a liar :P
09:33:59Dead_Bodyuntil im fully released from bop custody i dont have time to study it
09:34:00[Saint]Wow...prison DAPs. Just, wow.
09:34:57[Saint]Dead_Body: you can whack it up on something like if it isn't too much trouble
09:35:05[Saint]I'm sure a few people would like to poke at it.
09:35:32Dead_Bodyyour site is broke. let me google a bit
09:36:08[Saint]oops. I .org'd when I should've .com'd
09:37:25Dead_Bodyupload in progress, please wait
09:37:38*[Saint] is very interested in what "recovery mode" is...
09:38:11Dead_Bodywhen you disassemble the mp3 player and short those two pins
09:38:54[Saint]Oh, then, I parsed what you said incorrectly.
09:39:01Dead_Bodyit is in the unbricking tutorial for sansa clip+
09:39:22Dead_Bodyfigured that would work for what i needed to do, which was write new firmware
09:39:23[Saint][21:28:06] <Dead_Body> well you cannot do updates unless it is in recovery mode + "they have modified sandisk firmware that requires to be updated once every 14 days"
09:39:49[Saint]That lead me to believe you meant *official* updates.
09:40:02[Saint]...the reality is a lot less interesting, but, meh.
09:40:25Dead_Bodywell i was trying to update with latest sandisk firmware. is that an official update?
09:42:53[Saint]No, errr....., argh. Nevermind. You'd said it needed to be updated every 14 days, and you also said it needed to be updated from recovery mode, so I thought there was some form of recovery mode accessible from the device itself (without taking it apart) that <person_in_charge> had access to.
09:43:13[Saint] was simply me correlating two statements that I shouldn'ty have done, that's all.
09:46:08[Saint]Dead_Body: out of curiosity, did you try Main Menu > Settings > System Settings > USB Mode > MSC in the firmware before trying to upgrade the firmware?
09:46:08[Saint]...this may be less interesting that it seems.
09:46:37[Saint]Were it in MTP mode, that would explain both the failure to update and the "missing files".
09:47:19[Saint]I forgot, but, iirc, it shouldn't perform an update in MSC mode.
09:47:37[Saint](and you won;t see your media on the filesystem either)
09:49:08 Join JimZat_ [0] (
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09:53:54Dead_Bodythere was no system settings -> usb mode
09:54:17Dead_Bodyand by updated every 14 days i meant plugged into this computer inside the b.o.p. to 'revalidate'
09:54:37Dead_Body <−− link to the b.o.p. clip+ firmware
09:54:47[Saint]Nice, thanks.
09:55:33Dead_Bodyokay im going to bed, until tomarrow
09:55:38DexterLBhello.. I upgraded to the latest rockbox version (on the ipod video), and now I have a problem with the usb connection: after a while the connection hangs and I get broken pipe errors
09:55:56DexterLBalso the screen says "usb keypad mode", that shouldn't be normal
09:55:59Dead_Bodywell later on today i mean. ill return in the morning here
09:56:23[Saint]DexterLB: the latter is entirely normal.
09:56:30[Saint]The former, notsomuch.
09:56:53[Saint]If you don't want the latter to be true,m disable HID
09:57:49DexterLBwhat is the difference?
09:58:18[Saint]One uses HID, the other doesn't.
09:58:27DexterLBfair enough
09:58:35[Saint]Human Input Device.
09:58:43[Saint]Your player is pretending to be a keypad.
09:58:46[Saint]...or a mouse.
09:58:52[Saint]or a media remote, etc.
09:59:03DexterLBand yet offers storage? :P
09:59:04[Saint]You can disable this if you want to.
09:59:14[Saint]Yes, and offers storage.
09:59:50DexterLBhmm, wonder if you can access the storage on through an usb->ps2 converter then
09:59:56DexterLBjust for the giggles
10:00:27 Join stoffel [0] (
10:00:38[Saint]The only reason mice can do it is because of weirdness built into the spec.
10:01:24 Join melmothX [0] (~melmoth@unaffiliated/melmothx)
10:02:31DexterLByeah, there was an article somewhere about some hackers gifting some boxes of mice to a company, and each mouse supplied an autorun with malware
10:03:13DexterLBanyway, back to topic. after the "broken pipe" error, the ipod seems to have completely hung, not even unplugging the USB renders a reaction
10:03:22DexterLBthe only escape is reset
10:05:27DexterLBit doesn't even appear to be charging the battery
10:07:27[Saint]Hmmmm...the only info I can find on those Prison-Clip+s is that they're modified to disallow uSD and recording.
10:07:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:10:44[Saint]"Upon release, inmates can mail their MP3 player to the Advanced Technologies Group, with a $15 check, and ATG will remove the security functions and activate the voice recording component and mini SD slot."
10:10:59[Saint]...or, we'll be seeing more traffic ;)
10:13:33[Saint]"The primary complaint is that the devices tend to stop working completely. This appears to be due to the software modifications made by the vendor, and the MP3 players have been known to freeze, automatically shut down, or become inoperable altogether."
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10:34:26DexterLBwhy would anyone want to remove mini SD support?
10:35:16[Saint]Any number of security related reasons.
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12:20:31bluebrother^[Saint]: mice can do storage over USB? Rockbox appears as composite device, that is not related to mice.
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12:32:49ScallHello, a question: with Rockbox is it possibile to easily create playlists adding songs to a directory? For example: I mount my player and I create a directory "Playlist-Rock" and another one "Playlist-Hiphop" in the player, then I copy my songs to the two directories and so I've created two playlists. Is it possibile to create playlists in this manner?
12:34:16 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
12:35:04bluebrother^not sure if I understand the question
12:35:20bluebrother^Rockbox uses m3u playlists. These are pretty much a list of filenames
12:35:25ScallWhat I'd like to do is: cd /media/usb0/; mkdir Playlist-Hiphop Playlist-Rock; cp ~/music/hiphop/* Playlist-Hiphop; cp ~/music/rock/* Playlist-Rock
12:35:31bluebrother^the filenames can contain an absolute or relative path
12:35:55bluebrother^you're not creating a playlist that way. You're creating a folder
12:36:07ScallI see
12:36:12bluebrother^but you can play a file from that folder and Rockbox will create a dynamic playlist from it
12:36:16bluebrother^i.e. from the folder.
12:36:26n1sScall: playlists on the player don't auto update
12:36:27bluebrother^that's how playing files from the file browser usually works :)
12:36:53bluebrother^so there are two things: the dynamic playlist, which exists in memory (and can be saved to disk if wanted)
12:37:11bluebrother^and actual playlists, which are files listing music files to be played.
12:37:46bluebrother^if you use the file browser for selecting your music you can just use that and don't need extra playlist files
12:38:20bluebrother^unless your playlist file would include a specific order of the files. Otherwise the files (when added to the dynamic playlist) are added in the order they show up in the file browser.
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12:39:55Scallbluebrother^: many thanks, very clear
12:40:00bluebrother^so from a different view you could consider a folder a playlist :)
12:40:16bluebrother^the only problem is that you need to duplicate files if you want to have them in two different "playlists"
12:41:12n1sm3u playlists with relative paths can also be easily generated with ls
13:11:11Scallthe only problem is that you need to duplicate files if you want to have them in two different "playlists" ← I could create some symbolic links instead of duplicating files, couldn't I?
13:14:23bluebrother^no. FAT doesn't support symlinks
13:14:56Scallanyway to make m3u playlists with "ls" sounds like a great idea
13:14:58bluebrother^that's where playlists come into play. Drop your files somewhere, then create a list of all files you want to play in a list
13:15:25bluebrother^then play that list. I.e. playlist :)
13:18:59Scallbut, if songs are in different directories I should use 'find' instead of 'ls' to make the list, right? Otherwise the m3u playlist will have only the file basename
13:22:23bluebrother^or any other means to resolve the symlink to the real filename :)
13:23:10bluebrother^in the end you need the real filenames in the list. Either use relative paths to the files, or make them absolute matching the folder structure on the player
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13:34:23Scallokay, thanks again. When I'll have my player with Rockbox I will try (I think to buy a Sansa Clip Zip). I'll surely make a donation to the Rockbox project in the future ;-)
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13:44:10[Saint]bluebrother^: I was meaning the USB->PS2 part. By my understanding, the only reason that works is specific hackery.
13:44:58[Saint]It wasn't meant in relation to USB storage.
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19:46:14soapI was under the impression, [Saint], that mice the mice those worked with were actually USB _and_ PS2 mice.
19:47:43[Saint]...that's a thing?
19:48:11[Saint]I thought it's a "it just works" thing.
19:48:40[Saint](due to being baked into the USB spec, iirc)
19:49:27*gevaerts has seen that claimed several times, but he's *never* seen a plausible reference
19:50:02[Saint]funny, I was pretty sure it was you that told me so initially :)
19:50:13[Saint]Glad I didn't dig up that reference then...
19:50:29funmanany ETA for g#396 ?
19:50:32fs-bluebotGerrit review #396 at : Clip Zip: promote to stable by Rafaël Carré (changes/96/396/1)
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19:50:52gevaertsfs-bluebot: I'd say just before branching
19:51:08gevaertsAlthough maybe sooner, depending on AlexP's RC plans
19:51:18[Saint]last spoke order strikes!
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21:17:45funmanwodz: blackjack doesn't even start in simulator, i'll have a look tomorrow
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22:06:30AlexPfunman, gevaerts I plan for RC builds tomorrow night, so it'd be good to do the clip zip before that
22:06:41AlexPSeeing as it is pressing a button, it shouldn't be hard :)
22:07:17AlexPAlso, sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I've not been around this weekend much
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22:44:22saratogapamaury: does that brute force thing work on any firmware?
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23:13:58*[Saint] wonders (half humerously) what the exact requirements behind "Rockbox Expert" are
23:14:28[Saint]wrt: forum badge
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23:45:46soaphistorically it was bestowed.
23:46:22soapWas given to people who gave helpful correct answers in order to filter them from the fray.
23:46:37[Saint]I thought there was some form of story behind it, that was what I was really curious about.
23:46:57[Saint]More of an honor, then a set of criteria. Nice.
23:47:07[Saint]argh! *than
23:50:55*[Saint] wishes to make clear the fact that he was curious about the origins of, and not fishing for (I mean, me? ha!) said badge.
23:51:28[Saint]iiuc, it's the least common forum badge, and I've always wondered about it but usually forget.
23:54:22[Saint]"Theme Expert" perhaps...or "Has a ~2/3 success rate for unbricking Sansas Expert"
23:54:26soapthe latest forum update now hides the expert badge if someone has a "higher" one.
23:55:09[Saint]aha, can't say I've actually noticed that.
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