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#rockbox log for 2013-03-18

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04:08:03scorchegoing to see about updating the forums...putting them into maintenance mode now...
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05:10:56scorchealright - should be good
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08:42:07TheSevenpamaury (for the logs): the OTG that you just found is probably the same one that the nano2g, ipod classic and some sansas use
08:42:29TheSevengiven how much trouble we're having with this driver, it might indeed be worth redoing from scratch
08:43:09TheSevenI do however have a driver for that STM32F[24] series of chips that seems to work flawlessly, but has a slightly different interface towards the USB core
08:43:25TheSevenif anyone is interested in that, I can pastebin it somewhere
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09:05:25lebelliumseems to be some spam here,42709.msg218096.html?PHPSESSID=b248i2bjb3cm4ce2j8il919o34#new
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10:06:38ukleinekTheSeven: is that an chipidea core?
10:07:18TheSevenno idea, I just know that it's apparently from synopsys (or from someone that they bought), and that there's also a linux driver for it
10:08:03ukleinekTheSeven: there are IIRC at least 3 driver for it as it was only noticed recently that it is build-in in sooo many SoCs.
10:08:51ukleinekand yes, that's probably the same one. A colleague is currently fighting with it.
10:10:38TheSevendrivers that i'm aware of: my old one (the old nano2g driver), our sansa driver (IIRC written by funman?), funman's new driver (merge of those two drivers), the linux driver, the STM32 reference driver, and my own STM32 driver
10:14:54 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
10:17:26TheSevenmy own STM32 driver implementation for that core:
10:17:27TheSevenUSB core header:
10:17:27TheSevenUSB core code:
10:17:27DBUGEnqueued KICK TheSeven
10:17:27TheSevenSynopsys-specific header:
10:17:27TheSevenSynopsys-specific code:
10:17:28***Alert Mode level 1
10:17:28TheSevenSTM32-specific code:
10:17:49TheSevenfeel free to use that (or parts of it) wherever you need them
10:18:17TheSevenpamaury: you as well :)
10:19:05pamauryTheSeven: great to know that :)
10:19:20ukleinekIn Linux it's at least: ci13xxx, drivers/usb/gadget/fsl_udc_core.c
10:19:50TheSeventhe linux driver doesn't use DMA because of some hardware bug IIRC
10:19:53pamauryI'm still light years from knowing enough of the rknano-b anyway, I just figured out from the disassembly that it is using this core
10:20:13pamaurythis core is very similar to the one in amsv2 right ?
10:20:23TheSevenprobably the very same core
10:20:44pamaurythat might be way dma on those is buggy ^^
10:20:49TheSeven(possibly with a different feature set, that can be adapted during synthesis)
10:20:54pamaurys/dma/driver using dma
10:21:17TheSevenI've observed some weird things with DMA on the ipod classic as well
10:21:36TheSeventhe core locking up in certain situations when there's traffic on multiple endpoints at the same time
10:21:41CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:21:41*pamaury will be back in hour one for this usb thing
10:22:12ukleinekwe currently see a stall and think it's related to an errata published by Freescale
10:22:34TheSevenmy driver supports both DMA and PIO mode, and DMA seems to work perfectly fine for my current use case (that just uses EP0 and one data endpoint)
10:22:51ukleinekso mv_udc_core is a third instance of a driver for that core.
10:24:22TheSevenukleinek: seems like that errata is only important for host mode
10:25:03ukleinekTheSeven: you're talking about the link in the commit log?
10:26:14 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
10:26:50ukleinekTheSeven: I think that is wrong, because drivers/usb/gadget is about usb device drivers
10:27:22TheSevenI don't think this core uses memory mapped TDs in device mode at all (and I haven't dealt with host mode yet)
10:27:29***Alert Mode OFF
10:28:12*ukleinek looks for his colleague and asks him to come here as he doesn't know the glory details.
10:28:30TheSevenso if this is referring to device mode, then that driver is for a different core
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10:54:03 Join dot [0] (
10:54:38doti hear someone is fighting with an chipidea udc
10:57:20ukleinekdot: you have the logs, right?
10:57:31ukleinek(logs == channel logs)
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10:59:07pamaurythe synopsys core doesn't use memory mapped TDs in device mode
11:00:02pamaurythe usb core in freescale chips is usually the one we refer to as usb ARC, which uses memory mapped TDs
11:02:15 Quit kaputnik_ (Read error: Operation timed out)
11:02:31dotsynosys has another core, which is not based on memorymapped tds, i think its name is dwc2
11:02:54ukleinekpamaury: and which is the Linux kernel driver for the core you talked about?
11:03:44pamaurydid I talk about a linux driver ?
11:03:47pamauryah no
11:04:48dotyou could look into drivers/usb/gadget/s3c-hsudc.c in the kernel, IMHO its an dwc2 implementation
11:07:19pamauryhsotg.c you mean, Im not sure hsudc.c is the same, but yeah it is, last time I checked it was fifo only iirc
11:08:35pamauryand that driver is unbearably complicated also, though far less than the original code from synopsis I got
11:09:13pamaurywhat is the difference between dwc and dwc2 ?
11:10:42 Quit copper (Quit: ZNC -
11:11:01dotagree, i think currently i did not see any driver implementing dwc2 with dma mainline
11:11:34doti think its the common name for the ehci-variant, as currently the dwc3 is being mainlined
11:11:59dotdwc3 == xhci
11:12:59pamauryI must say I was surprised to see a synopsis core in a rockchip soc
11:14:51pamauryhum, audio broken on the fuze+ but there was no recent change on the imx233 :( I'll need to bisect that
11:15:58TheSevendot, ukleinek, pamaury: yes, IIRC the synopsys one that we're using on STM32, AMSv2 and nano2g/classic is the dwc/dwc2 one
11:16:24dotyou might be lucky, dwc2 is currently discussed on linux-usb
11:16:36[Saint]Maybe re-writing the driver will get us USB back on N2G ;)
11:16:40pamauryit's a shame we still haven't a working implementation, nano2g is broken and amsv2 is unstable
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11:16:54[Saint]heh - snap.
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11:17:34TheSeven[Saint]: someone might want to port over my new dwc2 device mode driver for STM32
11:17:41TheSeven(which I linked above)
11:18:08*[Saint] has no time to be someone lately
11:18:25[Saint]I've had to abandone pretty much all of my Rb projects
11:18:42TheSevendot: if you're curious, I have written this driver for an STM32 chip (it appears to use a dwc2 core) to get rid of STM's bloaty reference implementation
11:18:56pamauryTheSeven: I don't have the time for it right now but that sounds interesting
11:18:57TheSevenit supports PIO and DMA, but only device mode so far, and uses a completely redesigned API
11:20:13TheSevenoh, very interesting to hear that this is the core that's used in the raspberry pi, which has awfully buggy USB
11:20:34pamaurymaybe that core is just bad :D
11:20:38[Saint]Oy - yes.
11:20:48[Saint]USB on the raspi is unbearably shite.
11:21:13pamaurydevice or host ?
11:21:24[Saint]device is fine.
11:21:36TheSeventhat core is very popular and doesn't appear to be that bad, I suspect the driver is more of a problem :)
11:23:06TheSevendot: so what are you doing with that core? host or device mode?
11:23:13TheSevenand what kind of problems are you observing?
11:23:35TheSevenor are you dealing with the udc one?
11:26:04*[Saint] also thinks that this may be responsible for this issue with some wireless keyboards giving repeat keypresses on the raspi
11:26:21TheSeveni've had that with non-wireless ones as well
11:26:33[Saint]I trialled an updated driver not so long ago that made things a /lot/ better.
11:26:36TheSevenand keypresses being ignored during network traffic spikes (which is connected through USB as well)
11:27:13TheSevendot: if you're curious, here's my dwc2 device mode driver code:
11:27:14TheSevenUSB core header:
11:27:14TheSevenUSB core code:
11:27:14TheSevenSynopsys-specific header:
11:27:15TheSevenSynopsys-specific code:
11:27:17TheSevenSTM32-specific code:
11:27:34*TheSeven heads to work, but will be online on his phone
11:27:41[Saint]actually, I think that might be 2.94a - which I think is in the debian image presently - but the version I was using had additional patches I think aren't currently in the raspbian images.
11:28:15*pamaury goes for lunch
11:28:26ukleinekTheSeven: we're interested in imx23/28 host and device
11:30:22dotTheSeven: sorry, but we are not working with dwc2, we use the memorymapped td variant, known as chipidea 13xxx
11:52:13[Saint]Is there anything in particular keeping g#393 from being committed?
11:52:17fs-bluebotGerrit review #393 at : Implement "reverse stereo" channel configuration to reverse left and right audio... by Bertrik Sikken (changes/93/393/2)
11:52:32[Saint]'tis a useful, and oft requested feature.
11:53:22[Saint]Aha - HWcodec.
11:54:55*[Saint] wonders where he put his volume cap patch
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12:24:37pamauryukleinek: usb devuce mx23 is usb arc, we have a driver for it, it's pretty common
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12:46:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:46:22funmanJdGordon: ping FS #12639
12:46:24fs-bluebot Certain themes cause the WPS to not load properly and USB to not work (bugs, unconfirmed)
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12:52:41bebnaHi, is there a way to read smart data from a ipod classic? It seems that my second hand bought one, has a problem with his disk and rockbox never stops to scan the disk on boot
12:53:32Tornebebna: not easily, no.
12:53:44funmanbebna: if database is enabled it could be a bug in metadata reading, choking on one of your files
12:53:48Tornebebna: i was working on it for aw hile but it's really fiddly.
12:53:48ukleinekdot: seen pamaury's statement?
12:54:15bebnai can try to delete the db by the bootloader
12:55:00bebnabut there isn't propably a way to get rockbox working with a disk with faulty sectors
12:55:50funmanwell you have to replace the disk
12:57:29bebnathe thing is, the disk seems to work fine until i tried to delete the old ipod data dir from it
12:57:49bebnaso I assumed that only a small part of disk is damaged
12:58:44Tornebebna: if the disk has a few bad sectors and it's not getting worse, then rockbox can work just fine; have chkdsk mark those sectors as bad and we won't use them
12:58:44bebnathe bootloader and rockbox itself seems to reading the .rockbox dir just fine from the disk for example
12:58:48Tornehowever, that's unlikely to be the case
12:58:58Tornehard disks with bad sectors are basically always dying
12:59:00Torneand will get worse
12:59:08Torneso, if you really do have bad sectors i'd replace the disk
12:59:36Torneanyway. rockbox doesn't support reading the SMART data at present; i was writing a patch for it but it doesn't work yet
12:59:45Torneand you can't read the smart data via usb either
12:59:59bebnaTorne: I know
13:00:01Torneon the older ipods the builtin ROM diagnostic mode could display some of the smart data
13:00:09Tornei don't know if the classic has anything like that
13:00:30bebnabut these disks don't have sata/ide right?
13:00:55Tornemost of them are just ATA disks
13:01:23Torneiirc there's one model of classic that has a weird ce-ata interface
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13:02:22bebnait should be one of the latest 120gb models i think
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13:04:30bebnaanyway thanks for the chkdsk idea, I will see what I can do. If that doesn't help, It was my fault to buy a faulty ipod
13:04:53Tornethe later ones are normal ata disks, to my understanding
13:05:01Torneyou can';t pluyg them directly into a pc because they use a weird connector
13:05:04Tornebut there are adapters :)
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13:06:32bebnaWhy there aren't 2.5" hdd players!
13:06:53Tornebecause nobody wants them
13:07:07Tornein fact barely anyone wants hdd playuers at all :)
13:07:16Torneit's almost surprising anyone still bothers making them
13:08:07bebnathe thing is i like variaty
13:08:21Tornewell, unfortunately markets don't
13:09:40bebnaI mean with my music. My last Sandisk Clip had a 32GB card and only with opus ~96kbps, I was able to put a small part of my collection on it
13:10:19Torneright, but the people who sell millions of mp3 players don't care how much music *you* have :)
13:10:53bebnaYeah no wonder, everyone uses a streaming service nowadays
13:11:58bebnaIs there a player who can hold multiple storage cards?
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13:19:57copperbebna: the iRiver AK100
13:20:05copperhas two microsd slots
13:23:40bebnathanks copper, but it doesn't look in the first check that it can use only 2x32GB cards and not 64gb ones to reach > 120GB, and the price isn't nice either
13:24:43copperbebna: "Can I use a 64GB micro SD card with the Astell & Kern AK100?"
13:24:59copperformat as FAT32
13:25:23copperit has a high output impedance though, 22Ω
13:28:27bebnai can gat a 256gb zif ssd for my wrongly bought ipod for a third of this price and my mobile earplugs don't resolve more than roughly 256kbps mp3
13:28:52bebnabut how i said thanks
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13:44:03[Saint]I think that manufactures don't actually expect you to take your *entire* audio collection with you.
13:44:15copperApple does.
13:44:21[Saint]For many people, this would be impossible, even with 250GB+ drives.
13:44:36[Saint]I would need 8 iPods to do that.
13:45:00copperI'd like to know just how many people have lossy libraries that amount to 250 GB.
13:45:18[Saint]I think that it is expected that you'll take your favorite audio with you and freshen it as needed.
13:46:03[Saint]copper: my lossy stuff amounts to about 800GB
13:46:25copper250 GB @ 256kbps is ~2300 hour long albums
13:46:44copper[Saint]: you're in a tiny, tiny minority
13:47:54bebnaI don't think so, my mixed mostly lossy collection is also around 750GB at the moment
13:48:08Torneyes, that's a tiny, tiny minority
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13:49:45bebnaFor the sake of this minority, even my mother would crack 500gb if she would digitilize her LPs, tapes and CDs
13:55:57[Saint]bebna: can you compile your own builds?
13:56:14[Saint]re: S.M.A.R.T data - you might want to look at
13:56:35[Saint]description: g#385
13:56:37fs-bluebotGerrit review #385 at : iPod Classic/6G: reads HDD S.M.A.R.T. data by Cástor Muñoz (changes/85/385/1)
13:57:02bebnawould'nt help me, can't access debug menu anymore
13:57:25[Saint]huh?...why not?
13:57:33bebnai cant get further than the bootlogo
13:57:52[Saint]not even with the fallback image?
13:58:09[Saint]emCORE Menu - Tools - Boot Rockbox Fallback image
13:58:18bebnano, it only shows me in the debug image that it scans the disk
13:59:08[Saint]sounds like you might want to format the disk.
13:59:19[Saint]emCORE can do this also.
13:59:59bebnaemCore only shows a bar, which needs a hour to finish and after that it seems that the .rockbox folder is present afterwards
14:00:07bebnaeven if it should'nt
14:02:42bebnadoesn't have the iriver h10 also a zip hdd
14:02:52bebnai got one of those somewhere
14:08:44user890104[15:00:04] <bebna> emCore only shows a bar, which needs a hour to finish and after that it seems that the .rockbox folder is present afterwards << you might want to ask TheSeven at #freemyipod-support about his hddscan2 emcore app, which can mark bad secotrs better than chkdsk
14:09:51[Saint](but may take several days to complete)
14:10:48bebnahmm, how do i get this on the ipod if i can't access it without rockbox?
14:11:35user890104bebna: it's an emcore app - as long as emcore boots, it can be run
14:12:09bebnaemcore does boot, but did'nt i need to run rockbox for usb access?
14:12:36user890104no, emcore also has an usb driver, but it does not use mass storage protocol, it uses its own one
14:12:38[Saint]not necessarily, no.
14:12:51user890104and there are pc-side tools, that can upload code and run it on the ipod
14:15:58bebnaI just found a log from 2011-11.21, with a conversation of this hddscan2 app and a download link who works
14:16:38bebnawill check it out tonight, at the moment I'm at work and can't access my ipod from here -,-*
14:16:42user890104there's a similar log here:
14:17:00bebnai got this one
14:17:24user890104please be warned that running hddscan2 will completely trash all your ipod's hdd contents
14:17:26bebnaI also looked in the wiki but it doesn't seem to got a page
14:17:45bebnauser890104: I never got to uploading any music to it
14:18:24user890104no, there's no page yet, and the sourcecode isn't yet uploaded to the official svn repo (but it's available if someone wants to take a look)
14:18:34[Saint]user890104: I know we can't dual-boot, but, could we jump into diagmode?
14:18:46user890104ok, then you can just go ahead and run it, but keep the ipod connected to power
14:18:50bebna< [7]> you basically have three options: 1. toss it into the trash can, 2. replace the hdd, 3. use only emcore and rockbox, try hddscan2 and pray :)
14:19:01bebna^ that line hits me hard
14:19:10user890104[Saint]: disk mode does not work for sure, haven't tried diagmode yet
14:19:33[Saint]I just thought that if we could jump into diagmode, SMART data would be accessible
14:19:42user890104bebna: these are basicly the options you have now
14:20:08user890104hddscan2 creates a file with bad blocks, which only emcore and rockbox can read
14:20:37user890104once you restore to apple's os, this file would be lost, and even if you backup it, their os can't make use of it
14:21:51bebnaI only want to use rockbox with it, apple's os doesn't support opus
14:22:54[Saint]fwiw, Rockbox's opus support is only very basic - but the classic has enough guts to do the job.
14:23:20[Saint]there's a lot of room for optimization.
14:23:42bebnaThe Sandisk Clip+ doesn't got a problem with it either, until it got stolen -.-*
14:24:08[Saint]The Clip didn't choke on higher bitrates?
14:25:51bebnaI tested it up too 256kbps i think, WPS was laggy with 256 yes, but sound was fine
14:25:51[Saint]Hum, interesting, it has progressed further than I thought.
14:25:51bebnaBut I couldn't hear a difference >96kbps
14:26:08bebnaTry it out, but check your battery lifetime, it drains faster than with simpler codecs.
14:26:37[Saint]Oh, I'm aware of this. Which is why I'm not using it presently.
14:27:23[Saint]...though batter life isn't really an issue on the CE-ATA CLassic, 850mA means roughly 50 hours playback.
14:28:22bebnao.0 pidgin thinks mp3@320CBR is a vaild email address
14:28:33Tornenot quite ;)
14:28:45Torneit doesn't have a dot in it ;)
14:29:10[Saint]fixed! :)
14:29:42bebnathe thing is
14:30:21bebnaI couldn't differentiate between 96kbps and 128kbps opus, but i could differentiate 128kbps mp3 and 96kbps and opus
14:30:37bebnawith opus sounding better and wider
14:32:00bebnaAnd the author of opus says, V1.1 sounds better than V1.0, which I believe Rockbox has
14:32:48freqmod_even if it is encoded with 1.1 and decoded with 1.0?
14:33:21bebnadon't know, doesn't used v1.1 yet
14:34:44bebnathe sound was played on the clip+ and with denon ah-c360 plugs
14:36:11bebnai can recheck against some some neutral speakers
14:36:15bebnaif you like
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14:38:51webguest31Hi Torne, Thanks for rockbox support. Quick question regarding Big Disk support
14:39:52webguest31I have Gigabeat S and 240gb HD...
14:40:22webguest31Tried few times your instructions from thread:
14:42:17webguest31with no luck... <HD1> not in rockbox file explorer... but avalable partitions in rockbox debug info show correct number and sizes
14:42:40webguest31Any idea to enable <HD1>
14:43:29*[Saint] assumes you've recompiled with multivolume support enabled?
14:43:40[Saint]I _think_ this is still required.
14:45:40webguest31Thansk... yes I updated system-target.h file as recommended and removed #define USBSTOR_READ_SECTORS_FILTER() ... block..
14:46:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:46:39Torneis the other partition actually formatted correctly?
14:46:39 Quit shamus (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
14:46:47Tornecan you access it and write to it via USB?
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14:47:32webguest31Linux sucessefully recognised all partitions and allow format empty space with fat32... Yes I also can write correctly... new partition is type ff...
14:48:06Tornedid you also apply the patch to rockbox to allow it to mount partitions of type ff?
14:48:19Tornethe patch linked in that thread isn't there any more
14:48:23Torneso, i'm guessing you didn't ;)
14:48:32Torne(the link to
14:48:33webguest31ups.. i guess no...
14:49:08Torneyou need to modify the code that reads the partition table in rockbox to think that 0xff is a valid FAT partition type
14:49:10webguest31the link seems dead
14:49:14Tornethat's what i just said :)
14:49:19Tornethat's why i guessed you hadn't applied it
14:49:54webguest31thanks... will try to searh the patch...
14:50:03Torneit's a one line change
14:50:14Torneyou won't find tha tpatch anywhere i expect
14:50:21Torneit wasn't by us, it was the author of that forum post
14:50:52[Saint]does multivolume "just work" now? Or does the target's config need HAVE_MULTIVOLUME added to it?
14:51:31Tornewebguest31: you need to add 0xff to the array fat_partition_types in firmware/common/disk.c
14:51:38Tornearound line 50
14:51:48Torneas far as i remember that was all that was in that patch.
14:52:04webguest31got it... Much thanks!!! let me try..
14:52:35Tornewe tried to make this unnecessary by having it probe all partitions regardless of type
14:52:49Tornebut unfortunately our FAT code is not careful enough about validating whether partitions are really FAT partitions or not
14:52:58Torneand it resulted in some devices misdetecting their partition layout and becoming unusable :)
14:53:06Tornewe need to make fat_mount() more cautious ;)
14:53:49webguest31Git it! This is great job with rockbox as it is!! Much Thanks for support
14:54:43Torneno problem. it would be nice if we got this to work "properly" at some point (i.e. without hacks0
14:55:07Tornemy idea was to write a plugin that creates the extra partition on the device for you
14:55:16Tornesuch that you don't need the weird usb patches to make it from the host
14:56:01webguest31Perfect! Thanks
14:56:21Tornewell, i haven't gotten around to doing it however many years later
14:56:24Torneso don't say thanks ;)
14:58:34[Saint]webguest31: you might want to check if you defined HAVE_MULTIVOLUME in your devices config .h file, I don't recall seeing that stated in the forum link above and as far as I'm aware this is necessary.
14:59:05[Saint]as far as I'm aware, without doing so, it still won't work even if you do the changes Torne listed
14:59:34Torne[Saint]: we at least *discussed* turning multivolume on universally
14:59:38Tornei'm not sure if we actually did
15:00:01Tornethere may have been some reason not to
15:00:07Torneor maybe we didn't get around to it ;)
15:03:55webguest31#ifdef HAVE_MULTIVOLUME
15:03:55webguest31#define NUM_VOLUMES_PER_DRIVE 4
15:03:59webguest31Saint... thanks for headsup.. i checked config.h and it seems that
15:04:20webguest31 HAVE_MULTIVOLUME is there with above clouse..
15:05:44[Saint]ok, then just add "#define HAVE_MULTIVOLUME" in there.
15:05:56[Saint]but, I'm sure you're aware of this if you've gotten this far.
15:10:18webguest31Thanks Saint... It seems below clouse there.. hope it will work:
15:10:20webguest31#if defined(HAVE_MULTIDRIVE) && !defined(HAVE_MULTIVOLUME)
15:10:20webguest31#define HAVE_MULTIVOLUME
15:12:28[Saint]that seems like an odd way to do it...
15:12:51Tornewebguest31: no, that's not relevant
15:12:58Tornethat says that things which are multidrive must also be multivolume
15:13:24Torneyou need to add #define HAVE_MULTIVOLUME to the gigabeat S's config file
15:15:36webguest31got it... checking...
15:18:29webguest31Great... updated gigabeats.h with #define MULTIVOLUME... will try new buld... Much Thanks...
15:19:08[Saint]Hum - we could /probably/ make a plugin that did all this for you I think.
15:19:15 Quit fs-bluebot (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
15:19:16[Saint]But, smacks of effort.
15:19:33Torne[Saint]: the partitioning can be done by a plugin, which avoids the need to patch the USB code
15:19:41Torneand we could enable multivolume on the Beast by default
15:19:44Torneor on all targets maybe
15:19:45*[Saint] nods
15:19:51Torneyou';d still need a host to actually format the second partition
15:19:59[Saint]Aha - good point.
15:20:11Torneas i doubt we want to get into writing mkdosfs
15:20:13Tornebecause yuck
15:20:28Tornebut that's fine, formatting a volume is easy for users
15:20:37Tornethe only remaining thing would be allowing partition type ff as a valid type
15:20:49Tornewhich we could do, again, but because fat_mount is a bit wonky that might cause weird effects on some people's players
15:21:05Tornemaking fat_mount more careful to verify that the filesystem is actually plausible before mounting it would be nice :)
15:22:07[Saint]Hum - did I break something, or has the USB screen never actually notified the user when it is safe to disconnect?
15:22:19[Saint]My recollection is failing me.
15:22:26Torneour handling of eject is really wonky and "broke" a while back
15:22:27Tornefor some value of broke
15:22:36Tornethere's more than one way that the host can signal to the device that it's no longer in use
15:22:45Tornedepending if the host thinks the device is removable or not
15:22:48Torneand on what OS you use
15:22:53Torneand rockbox doesn't treat them all equally
15:22:55[Saint]Aha - so it *did* make some form of notification, or am I imagining this?
15:23:05Tornefor me it used to just exit usb mode
15:23:06Torneno notification
15:23:12Torneit would just go back to the main menu, still charging
15:23:17Tornewhen i ejected it in windows.
15:23:17[Saint]Aha, right.
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15:23:30Tornebut at some point either rockbox changed or i switched to a different version of windows and then it stopped :)
15:23:39[Saint]Now it just sticks in the USB screen.
15:23:46Tornefrom talking to people about this before it's nontrivial to work out
15:24:24[Saint]That's fine, I was more concerned with whether or not I was imagining different behavior or not.
15:24:46[Saint]errr...but worded more goodlier.
15:25:20Tornethis was, like, years ago though :)
15:30:51bebnahmm, did I checked it just wrong, or isn't there anywhere in the metadata fields the possibility to set tags?
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15:36:32*[Saint] is unsure of the question but takes a guess.
15:36:44[Saint]"No, you cannot edit metadata from within Rockbox at all"
15:37:20bebnano no no
15:37:28bebnai mean tags like categories
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15:38:37*[Saint] is lost
15:39:15bebnai hate english
15:39:24Tornebebna: we only parse the traditional id3 tags from the metadata, like genre
15:39:29Torneand we dont' support multivalue fields
15:39:38Tornethe database doesn't support arbitrary columns
15:40:00bebnaOSS, one can change that ;-)
15:40:07Torneso, unless you modify the database code there's no way for it to index anything other than artist/album/track/genre
15:40:07bebnathe thing is
15:40:25Tornethe thing is the database code is horrible and nobody understands it and most of the developers don't use it anyway
15:40:30bebnai thought about sorting my music with tags
15:40:32Torneso nobody has made the database smarter for a long time :)
15:40:44bebnatags like "electro, happy, fast"
15:41:08Torneright. so yeah, you can't do that. the only relevant field we support is genre and we treat it as a single string
15:41:10[Saint]use the "comment" field.
15:41:16Torneoh, hm
15:41:20Torneyeah, we do index comment actually
15:41:26[Saint]that's as good as you'll get.
15:41:26Tornebut it's not very useful
15:41:35Torneyou can do substring seraches on it by making a custom tag index thingy
15:41:43Tornebut you can't really just browse it by tag if they have multiple values
15:41:46bebnayeah, but other apps don't seem to use it either, because it isn't in the standards
15:42:03Tornebebna: the id3v2 standard does actually have fields for these things, and does specify how to encode multiple values
15:42:15Tornevirtually all music playing programs get it wrong or ignore it
15:42:18bebnahow did i miss it?
15:42:59Tornei tested this a while ago when retagging all my music and while Picard can *write* multivalue tags in multiple stnadard or nonstandard formats virtually nothing reads them correctly/at all
15:43:18Torneso it's probably hopeless :)
15:43:25Torneeven if you fixed rockbox to support it, nothing else will be compatible :)
15:43:51bebnathere isn't a proper music manager anyways
15:44:18bebnarockbox needs it's own itunes! *ambitions*
15:44:24[Saint]Picard is probably the least broken of a large bunch.
15:44:40[Saint]"its own iTunes" is the last thing Rockbox needs :)
15:45:13[Saint]The fact that you specifically don't need any management software is one of the huge benefits of Rockbox.
15:45:28Torney7eah, i "Manage" my music with rsync
15:46:21Tornebut yeah, all text frames in id3 are allowed to contain multiple strings, which are stored as a null separated list (i.e. a byte that's just zero, in most encodings)
15:46:39Tornei have yet to find a single program other than picard that understands the null separated format
15:46:46Tornesome programs support semicolon-separated lists, which is wrong
15:46:58Torneor comma-separated, which is also wrong (and conflicts with existing usage of commas for otehr purposes)
15:47:32Tornemost programs will either just use the first value and truncate it after the null because they are using C string functions that think that's the end of the string, or end up concatenating them all togetherwith garbage characters or question marks or something in the place of the nulls
15:47:37Tornewhcih si even less useful ;)
15:47:45bebnanull seperated values often crash with null terminated strings, ...
15:47:57[Saint]I should be able to do "Cure, The" etc. without things thinking it is two seperate tags.
15:47:58Tornecrashing is not involved.
15:48:10Torne[Saint]: yah, well, programs tend to apply this logic selectively to certain fields
15:48:19Tornewhich is also wrong, as the spec says it applies to *all* text frames
15:48:36Tornee.g. you could have a multivalue artist tag ;)
15:48:45Torneso yeah
15:48:48Tornethis shit doesn't work
15:49:10Torneat all, unless you always use the same program to access your music, and that program happens to impelemnt it in a certain way that you can use.
15:49:14Torneit's just notn portable
15:49:16Tornei gave up :)
15:49:30Tornei would be interested in adding support to rockbox *if* it actually worked in other things
15:49:34Tornebut, it doesn't, so fuck it
15:49:43[Saint]Fair enough. :)
15:49:50bebnaso symlinks for the rescue?
15:49:56Torneyou can't symlink files on FAT
15:50:05Torneand rockbox only supports FAT
15:50:07[Saint]no symlinks
15:50:08Torneso, no.
15:50:09bebna... i forgot
15:50:55bebnai just the checked id3v2.4.0 frames, there is nothing for tags to be found
15:51:46Tornethat's because it doesn't have one called "tags"
15:51:52Torneit has, instead, like, 20 different more specific text fields
15:51:56Tornelike mood and so on :)
15:53:05Tornethe plugin i use for picard to populate this data sets grouping, genre, mood, decade, occasion, category, and some others too :)
15:53:09bebnai didn't check for mood, i searched for everything that would resamble some user defined identifiers
15:53:22TorneRight, there are literally dozens of fields for user defined identifiers
15:53:30Tornefor different purposes
15:53:34Torneand also several generic ones as well :)
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15:54:37Tornealso, there are others not actually in the spec that are still de facto stadnards like occasion :)
15:54:57Torneagain, programs use this stuff all completely weirdly and inconsistently
15:55:15Torneso, unless you intend to use it with one specific piece of software (in which case you just do whatever it supports) you are basically screwed
15:58:15bebnahmm, vorbis allows using a tag like genre multiple types
15:58:19webguest31Torne / Saint ... as follow up on Big Disk for gigabeat S... All is working great after rebuld with recomended changes! Much Thanks!!
15:58:24webguest31Can I access ff partition in Win7 it seems that only main 128GB is visable... Linux mounts all partitions well
15:58:46Tornewebguest31: windows shouldn't care waht the partition type is either
15:58:50Tornewell, hm
15:58:54Torneit might not like ff, though
15:59:16Tornethere was originally another suggestion (which i don't recall if anyone actually implemented) to patch the partition table on read over USB to say it was the normal type
15:59:33Tornewindows doesn't mind if the partition type is wrong, but 0xff is supposed to mean "empty" so it may well ignore it
15:59:49Tornebebna: indeed, but again, programs don't handelt his consistenlty
15:59:55bebnawebguest31: can you see the the partition in "disk managment"?
16:00:09Tornebebna: also, as a bonus, some programs seemt o handle repeated vorbis comments by letting them overwrite each other such that the value you see is the *last8 one, not the first one
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16:00:14Tornewhich is even less useful
16:00:19webguest31yes it is in manager... but not allow leter change...
16:00:36Tornewebguest31: you probably need to have rockbox patch the MBR when it's read over USB, then
16:00:52Torneno idea if the previous guy did that or not
16:00:54Tornemaybe he didn't care ;)
16:01:06webguest31Got it! Much Thanks!!
16:01:46Tornethe usb_fix_mbr code already fakes the mbr, but those instructions disbled that (necessary to allow modifying the patition table over usb)
16:02:07Torneif you put the USB code back to the original state where it doesn't allow writing to the MBR and patches it, you can extend usb_fix_mbr to also do this rewriting
16:02:19Torneyou don't need those usb patches now you partitioned it once :)
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16:03:26bebnaI envy you webguest31, your disk is working! hf
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16:28:13webguest31Torne, I put USB code in original state and now trying to extend usb_fix_mbr. In my case it is usb-gigabeat-s.c. I wonder if extend usb_fix_mbr meens to swap first and 3rd partitions
16:28:17webguest31 /* Swap second and third partitions */
16:28:17webguest31 memcpy(tmp, &p[0x10], 16);
16:28:17webguest31 memcpy(&p[0x10], &p[0x20], 16);
16:28:17DBUGEnqueued KICK webguest31
16:28:17webguest31 memcpy(&p[0x20], tmp, 16);
16:28:37Tornei forget :)
16:35:18webguest31Thanks ;) I winder if below from usb-gigabeat-s.c describes Win limitation... or I can force to mount 2 partitions
16:35:20webguest31Windows ignores the partition flags and mounts the first partition it
16:35:20webguest31 sees when the device reports itself as removable
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16:37:42TorneOh, right, yes
16:37:44Tornethat :)
16:37:48TorneYeah, you are probably running into that ;)
16:37:57Torneso the partition type is prbably not the problem
16:39:35webguest31Much Thanks!
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22:23:42[Saint]No need to ask to ask, just ask your question.
22:24:03randomdenthaha great thanks. my device is an iRiver E300
22:24:40[Saint]I suppose this is a "does Rockbox run on my...XXXXXXXXX?" question?
22:24:56 Quit dv_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
22:25:07randomdentmore like what i have to do to make any kind of rockbox work?
22:25:47randomdentbecause at the moment rockbox is not fitted for my player
22:25:54[Saint]silly Google...
22:26:17randomdenti got the page, thanks
22:28:02randomdentok, so i got to this page
22:28:10randomdentwhat do i do with the code?
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22:29:20[Saint]At this stage - nothing at all.
22:29:47 Quit kadoban (Read error: Operation timed out)
22:31:56randomdentoh, ok. is it worth trying to install the rockbox firmware that is intended for a different device?
22:32:21[Saint]No - don't ever do that.
22:32:39lebelliumis that risky? That just won't work, will it? :)
22:32:59[Saint]Potentially both, definitely the latter.
22:33:42randomdentahh man. and i dont know how to code.. i'll have to keep an eye on it if someone gets up to it
22:33:49[Saint]The small saving grace for you in that the SoC is known, and the supported E series targets use it - but you'll still need to find out about any additional HW that may be shared or has changed.
22:34:32[Saint]Following the steps listed in the newports wiki page linked above is generally considered a bare minimum effort.
22:34:35lebelliumwell if you can't code at all, don't expect anything unless there is a dev with this device willing to port RB to it
22:35:23[Saint]It pays to assume that the only person interested in said new port, is you, and that no one will help you - and be pleasantly surprised if/when other developers/users step in.
22:35:55randomdentnope, cant code at all. i'd be willing to do something though if theres anything i can do
22:35:56[Saint]The newports page is blunt, and it seems harsh - but its true.
22:36:16[Saint]a new port can potentially be many hundreds of man hours.
22:37:33randomdentwow.. i'll have to stick with custom then
22:37:41[Saint]start a new device page, get scans, identify components...just, follow the steps listed in newports.
22:37:50 Quit jhMikeS (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
22:37:53[Saint]every bit helps.
22:38:11pamauryif the soc is unsuppported, yeah it can be hundreds of man hours (mind the s after hundred), but ifwe already have support for the soc, it might be far less
22:38:16[Saint]Even if someone picks up on your work years from now, every bit helps.
22:38:41randomdentcan i break the player if i open it?
22:38:44CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:38:44*[Saint] is willing to bet that there's at least some hardware reused in addition to the SoC
22:38:53[Saint]randomdent: Oh, yes, certainly.
22:39:18lebellium[Saint]: It's hard to convince a new user that working for people in several years or never is not a waste of time :)
22:39:27pamaurywhat is the soc in iriver e300 ?
22:39:56[Saint]Aha, yep.
22:40:04randomdentwell i'd rather not break it to be honest, i have nothing to replace it at all.. and i need my music :D
22:40:22pamaurywodz is working on the atj soc currently
22:40:44[Saint]You probably won't. But you asked if you could, and that is certainly possible.
22:40:59[Saint]just don't go poking at the sparkly bits with pointy things :)
22:41:37randomdentthat seems logical
22:41:39pamaurywhen wodz is online, you should ask him, he knows thingds about this soc, he can better evaluate the work
22:42:26 Quit amayer (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
22:43:30[Saint]the construction seems very similar to the E100/150
22:44:03[Saint]in which case the required tool for opening said device is a spudger/guitar pick and a phillipshead 00
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22:45:08[Saint]good timing, sir.
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22:45:14wodze100/e200/e300 are very similar
22:46:01wodzI tend to think it is pure marketing voodoo and players are actually the same (minus aestetic minor differences)
22:46:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:46:33wodze200 is a bit more different due to different controls but for sure is based on the same reference design
22:46:52randomdentsounds great
22:47:12[Saint]the 200 had diagonals on the dpad, no?
22:47:24*[Saint] used to own one, many moons ago.
22:47:26randomdenti'd open my e300 if theres someone that can help me from there.. or at least someone that continues the project. that i dont risk it for nothing :)
22:47:31[Saint]...not that long ago really. :)
22:48:14wodzwell I have e150 only, pictures of e300 internals could be usefull
22:48:34[Saint]randomdent: that's the thing, for instance, a developer could pick it up - and then get hit by a bus. You never know.
22:48:36pamaurywodz: i've made some progress on the rknano :)
22:48:50wodzBUT it is really hard to open if you don't know how to start
22:48:53randomdentand nothing happens with it when i scan it?
22:48:54[Saint]The information is always useful, but there can't ever be any guarantees on whether or not it will be used.
22:49:05wodzpamaury: yeah, saw in logs
22:49:09randomdentwell i'd unscrew the two little screws and use a thin pick
22:49:35[Saint]No, a scanner can't harm the device.
22:49:46[Saint]A nice digital camera can do the trick also.
22:50:07wodzpamaury: the lack of upload limit is most probably due to bigger iram
22:50:25wodzpamaury: maybe this rknano has iram only
22:50:56randomdentalright, ill see when i get to it, and ill come back then :)
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23:07:52wodz"hard" adfu mode of atj213x doesn't seem to accept 'read memory' command. It accepts something which I think is 'write memory' and 'execute'. I need to craft some smart code to proof this.
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23:20:35bertrikwodz: I still suspect the AMS "bricked" mode to do something similar
23:21:06funmanbertrik: there's no DFU usb device though, only UMS?
23:21:58funmanwait, we're gonna support both sansa e200 and iriver e200 at some point?
23:22:08bertrikfunman: yes, could it be that writing to the USB device actually writes to RAM? but I don't know of any "execute" command
23:22:39funmanbertrik: a block device mapped to RAM would be weird (but well we've seen weird things anyway)
23:22:54bertrikthe UMS device data did seem to be persistent, but not across shutdowns
23:23:23funmanbertrik: get some liquid nitrogen and try cold boot attack :)
23:24:14funmanJdGordon: ping FS #12639
23:24:16fs-bluebot Certain themes cause the WPS to not load properly and USB to not work (bugs, unconfirmed)
23:25:21bertrikfunman: I've seen recognisable greyscale images from DRAM that wasn't refreshed for a minute or so
23:26:48 Quit randomdent (Quit: CGI:IRC)
23:32:03wodzfunman: maybe in far future we will support both sansa e200 and iriver e200 - this will be support nightmare
23:32:11 Quit ender| (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
23:34:26pamauryfunman: maybe ums with vendor scsi or buggy ums (i've sen this) ?
23:34:48pamauryor onlyworks in full-speed mode ?
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23:43:23ikeboyWhat rockbox supported model is the fastest?
23:43:54lebelliumfastest in what? they all play music the same :)
23:44:27gevaerts might be helpful
23:45:15gevaertslebellium: that's a bit confusing. Yes, they all play a 10 minute track in 10 minutes, but no, they can't all decode the more CPU-intensive codecs
23:46:41lebelliumexcept for the newly supported Opus codec, are there differences for the user between the various targets ?
23:47:12gevaertsSure. See for an extreme case
23:48:49JdGordonfunman: hehe, keep trying :)
23:49:03funmanJdGordon: i'll have no rest :)
23:49:36lebelliumfunman: I'm with you.
23:50:10lebelliumI have 10 or more rockboxed devices and USB doesn't work on any of them with my theme... pfiouu :'(
23:50:52lebelliumgevaerts: thank you, I did not know about that
23:51:23ikeboywhich have the most RAM and CPU speed?
23:52:21ikeboyI have the sansa fuze plus but wanted to know if there were other models that rockbox will work with that are faster
23:53:05gevaertsikeboy: the toshiba gigabeat S is the fastest "traditional" (i.e. not android or something like that) target
23:53:14lebelliumYP-R0 has a IMX37 532Mhz too
23:53:26lebelliumbut it's RaaA
23:53:28gevaertsThat one might be close to the gigabeat then
23:53:54gevaertsThe gigabeat S is unfortunately not easy to install
23:54:17funmanlebellium: ping Jd until he takes a look at this valgrind trace!
23:54:43lebelliumI don't want him to hate me :D
23:55:39ikeboyI think the gigabeat is not in production anymore
23:55:54lebelliumIt isn't, YP-R0 either
23:56:17lebelliumyou did not mention it has to be in production
23:56:21gevaertsWhy do you care about CPU speed and RAM?
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