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#rockbox log for 2013-03-23

00:00:16lebelliumok but PNG is more efficient (to save some KB) and has native transparency support, right?
00:00:58soaphow many KB are you needing to save?
00:01:09gevaertsBMP also has transparency
00:01:23lebelliumI don't really need, it's just a theoritical question
00:01:32gevaertsSo the only thing you're saving is a bit of diskspace
00:02:11RiDwell, PNGMonster is a good tool to further reduce the PNG size
00:02:31RiDit works pretty well in UI elements that are not utter complex
00:02:31gevaertsRather irrelevant if we don't do png :)
00:02:35soapFine. let's assume for sake of argument PNG themes would be 0KB in size.
00:03:06soapHow much storage space are you going to regain?
00:04:46soapIt's the rare iPod Video (big screen) them which breaks 200K.
00:05:24gevaertsthe backdrop is around 300K on those, so I suspect you're missing something
00:05:53gevaertsNot all themes use a full backdrop image of course
00:06:13RiDbackdrop here is 1,5MB (and it's mostly black), but storage space isn't critical at all
00:07:00RiDanyways, is there a way to use a progressbar on .SBS that reacts on touch?
00:07:04gevaertsRiD: you can probably get rid of most of it then, and just use the backdrop layer
00:07:39RiDgevaerts yeah, but it's no issue and the theme is still at the early stages :P
00:07:54gevaertssoap: for my medieval theme, savings would be around half a megabyte
00:08:09gevaertsSo this probably would be worth it for theme hoarders
00:08:12soapyea, I'm missing .zip
00:08:26gevaertsNot for people who just install the theme they use though, I'd say
00:11:03lebelliumactually it's a bit pity that the theme website requires PNG while themes use BMP and the UI sim takes screenshots in BMP.
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00:48:20RiDis there a way to create a shortcut to WPS in SBS, using touch areas?
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01:21:31[Saint]RiD: iirc, the 'menu' touch area should go back to the screen it came from if you're already in the menu
01:21:52[Saint]this behavior may have changed though, or, I could be entirely wrong and it never existed :)
01:22:23RiDmenu touch area? i think i know what you mean with that. I think it only goes back to the previous one
01:22:43[Saint]the 'browse' touch area either does, or used to (or again, I imagined it) behave the same way.
01:22:53RiD - is the "menu" touch area the one that says Rockboxd?
01:23:03RiDand it says different things depending on the area
01:23:11[Saint]I have no way of telling from a screenshot.
01:23:48RiD"browse" doesn't react on SBS, by the way
01:23:55[Saint]But, yeah - there's no "go to the wps" touch area. It would be trivial to add, though.
01:24:11[Saint]also, yeah it does.
01:24:40RiD"yeah it does" what are you referring to? Sorry, got a little bit confused
01:24:52[Saint]browse, works in the .sbs
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01:27:04RiDnot here, lol
01:27:31[Saint]Well, I'll rephrase that - it _should_, it definitely used to, and I have code lurking around that suggests I was using it myself - ...but, things break/change.
01:28:59RiDI see. Well, I'll be fine without that
01:29:06RiDbetter than no rockbox at all
01:30:13[Saint]What target are you working with? 800x480 landscape if the exif data isn't lying to me.
01:30:40RiDyes. I'm using rockbox as an application on Nokia N900, so it's not even official builds
01:30:51[Saint]Looks like my font too. Nice.
01:31:50[Saint]Yeppers. There's a blast from the past.
01:32:42[Saint]There's another (slightly tidier) set available through the extras page -
01:33:22[Saint]Ubuntu and GNU Unifont antialiased fonts, in rather large sizes. (up to 52pt iirc).
01:33:44RiD32 is somewhere around the sweet spot for this screen :P
01:33:53RiDand thanks for the link, that's welcome
01:34:06[Saint]Not a problem.
01:36:36ZincAlloyyou should try a larger icon set with that font :
01:37:00RiDnot one of my pictures :P
01:37:18ZincAlloyI see :)
01:37:29RiDbut yeah - i'm using the same icon set
01:37:51[Saint]if you are interested, there's larger icons based on the Tango! iconset in the source.
01:39:01[Saint]32x32 is as high as we have in the source, but there is also a script to convert an icon-strip of arbitrary size.
01:39:26RiDif some sort of vector image is given - right?
01:39:49RiDresizing a .bmp wouldn't be pretty :P
01:40:01[Saint]yes, it will pull from the tango svg sources.
01:40:18[Saint]there's SVG images for the icons used in the source tree as well.
01:40:39ZincAlloyvector images.. now that would have been quite something for cabbiev2 :D
01:42:18[Saint]you can just convert the svg to a bitmap with transparency and it will "just work" as well, if you don't want to bother with the (kinda hacky) script.
01:42:28RiDThis is how it currently looks:
01:42:38[Saint]Rockbox has accepted bitmaps with true transparency for some time now.
01:42:47[Saint]No need for nasty fuschia anymore.
01:42:57RiD i used that for the white buttons
01:43:29[Saint]Ohhhhhhh - that looks quite cool. Nice.
01:43:39ZincAlloyI like that
01:44:02ZincAlloyclean and simple
01:44:11RiDi'm going to release it once i finish everything. Might have to change the icons though - these are from the stock media player
01:44:21RiDi mean, the play etc buttons
01:44:30RiDnot that i would get sued for that, they're pretty simple
01:44:41[Saint]The only thing I would do to that is shift the text in the line selector a little, so it isn't hard up against the left side of the selector.
01:44:58[Saint]But, that would require drawing the lists with the skin engine.
01:45:30RiDi'm still pretty much new around rockbox theming, but i will later take a look at how other skins do it
01:45:42RiDi don't really like the text position either
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01:47:14ZincAlloyyeah. that would be a great improvement. with tiny fonts you get away with it being stuck to the left side of the bar, but as screens and fonts get bigger it just looks awkward
01:47:44RiDbut then - what would i display before the text?
01:47:49RiDit would look empty too :P
01:48:47ZincAlloyempty or tidy?
01:49:31RiDleave that for later, don't overwhelm me :(
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01:50:38RiDi haven't even touched the WPS yet
01:50:44ZincAlloydesigning stuff can be such a headache ^^
01:51:17RiDtouched* english fart
01:52:02RiDi wanted to incorporate a seekbar in SBS but i feel like it is quite useless if i can't use it
01:52:10[Saint]example of shifting the text with skinned lists:
01:52:41[Saint]replace the UI viewport size, and W,H with the UI viewport width, height, and you're done.
01:53:02[Saint]also, replace the gradient colors and foreground color to draw the gradient line selector.
01:53:15[Saint]...its an example to work from, at least.
01:53:58RiDif possible, an image instead of a gradient would be nice, so that i could add noise to it and reduce the banding effect :P
01:54:24[Saint]It is /possible/, but it greatly complicates things.
01:54:28ZincAlloywould look cool if the icons were placed on the gradient line selector, too
01:54:55[Saint]that is trivial.
01:55:40[Saint][13:52:04] <RiD> i wanted to incorporate a seekbar in SBS but i feel like it is quite useless if i can't use it <−− what do you mean by this?
01:55:54[Saint]You sould be able to do a progressbar on the .sbs just fine.
01:56:05RiDIt shows the progressbar, but i can't "seek" with it
01:56:13RiDso it's only visual
01:56:32[Saint]are you trying to use the ffwd/rrwd touch areas?
01:56:42[Saint]...'cos, that won't work.
01:56:52[Saint]But, you can just seek with the bar itself.
01:56:55RiDi noticed that too, but no, i tried progressbar
01:57:05[Saint]JdGordon: ^
01:57:11RiDprogressbar touch area*. it doesn't work without it either
01:57:51[Saint]it isn't documented I don't think, but, progressbars set up their own touch areas now.
01:57:51[Saint]So, it should "just work".
01:58:25[Saint]ANd it _should_ work inside the .sbs also, but, I'll take your word for it that it doesn't.
01:58:25RiDshould :P
01:58:38[Saint]You've got this far, so I'll assume you know what you're doing ;)
01:59:38RiDThe builds are not official and something could have gotten broken on the porting
02:00:00RiDbut then i'd expect for general buttons to not work either
02:00:09[Saint]Our 'skin engine guy' selfishly went and got married, and works for a, we'll have to beat him with large sticks.
02:00:28RiDi got a nokia 3310 somewhere
02:00:32RiDmight use it as brick
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02:05:06RiD[Saint] that code shows one line only. How can I make it to show more?
02:07:23[Saint]Hummm...this might be some weirdness with the maemo port. It should fill the UI viewport with as many lines as can fit.
02:07:36RiDcould be
02:07:50RiDif i scroll, the line changes text
02:08:56[Saint]it should draw as many "foo, width, height" lines as it can fit in the UI viewport.
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02:18:30RiDoh also, is %T playlist action supposed to work on SBS?
02:19:06RiDAnother thing that doesn't work, lol
02:19:27*[Saint] apparently has a lot of things to test this afternoon.
02:19:57RiDoh you're in a very different timezone. I'm going to sleep in a few mins
02:20:47[Saint]14:20 Sat - 23 - Mar
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02:24:11[Saint] woks as intended for me
02:24:38[Saint](just for lists, not icons, icons would be added using the same method)
02:25:09[Saint]works, too.
02:26:33[Saint]it looks a lot more complicated that in is: the %cs<|...|> conditional block is just needed to tell the .sbs not to try drawing a list in screens where we don't want/need lists drawn.
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02:29:15RiDLOL. I see why it didn't work
02:29:41RiDi set the height of each one to 480... ofc it wouldn't fit more than one
02:29:56[Saint]Aha :)
02:30:13RiDi guess some sort of "smooth" scrolling isn't supported?
02:30:43[Saint]Come again?
02:31:07[Saint]What is "smooth scrolling"?
02:31:26RiDever used an android phone or any other touch phone?
02:31:57RiDwhen you scroll through the contacts, they move pixel by pixel
02:32:54RiDnot the best video but you get the idea
02:33:00[Saint]Yeah, sure, but I'm not sure to what you are referring exactly. Our scrolling should work silimarly - with the exception that it will jump to the item youplace your finger on when you start scrolling.
02:34:15RiDwell, when i scroll using your code, it isn't smooth. You only see the text changing, line by line
02:35:18[Saint]Odd. That shouldn't happen - but skinned lists and touchscreen possibly conflict with each other.
02:36:18RiDwell, i'm going to sleep
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06:42:50[Saint]I'm sure it is somewhere.
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11:49:08webgu12pamaury: hello. yesterday I asked here about iriver e-series status and left, read the logs, thanks for the info, i'll contact him, maybe will be helpful in any way
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14:47:51MarcAndersenHi. I just got a Sony Nwz-s755 walkman and I would like to know if it will be supported by rockbox? It is listed on the sony nw wiki page but I can't find the target status.
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14:50:07AlexPMarcAndersen: It isn't supported, and is only likely to be so if an interested owner does the work
14:50:09pamauryMarcAndersen: i've began some preliminary work on the nwz but no port has begu
14:50:29AlexPOr pamaury gets bored again :)
14:50:50pamauryif your nwz can be connected as UMS and your are running linux, you can try to run the tool I wrote, it will tell you if you can hope or not
14:51:18pamauryI think I ported it to windows, don't remember
14:51:45MarcAndersenI do have a cd of vinux 3.0.2 based on ubuntu 10.4.4 I think
14:52:06pamauryAlexP: well, I've done a fair bit of reverse engineering on my nwz-e463 already ^^
14:52:21pamauryMarcAndersen: does it connected in mass storage or MTP under windows ?
14:52:56MarcAndersenCurrently it is shown as a media player called walkman
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14:53:51pamauryhum, that's MTP I think :( I don't know how to send commands to nwz in mtp mode. If you are willing to, please boot under Linux, make sure that it connects in mass storage mode
14:54:36lebelliumthere is a UMS driver trick for Windows too, no?
14:54:42MarcAndersenwell I would need to disconnect from irc then. How can I get in contact with you?
14:55:09pamaurylebellium: is there ? I don't know windows at all
14:55:39pamauryMarcAndersen: by email, see
14:56:05pamauryMarcAndersen: btw, was it you who asked me about the ZEN X-Fi a while ago ?
14:56:41lebelliumI remember reading on generationmp3 or anythingbutipod that there was a trick, at least on some Sony models, to force UMS on Windows by manually installing a driver. I look for the information again
14:57:11MarcAndersenthanks. I will boot linux and connect it and then send you the answer. And yes, it was, i don't have my hands on it again before the start of april.
14:57:37pamauryI've make some progress on it, I hope to get it ported pretty soon
14:57:53MarcAndersenreally? that player is great!
14:58:38MarcAndersenBut as i am blind I won't mess a lot with firmware before you get a self installing thing out
15:00:31MarcAndersencould you contact me when/if you get a test port out for the x-fi or the nwz?
15:02:05lebelliumand the following posts
15:02:13lebelliumI don't know if it works for all MTP walkman though
15:02:44pamauryinteresting, I think I directed a walkman user to that thread some time ago and it didn't work but I'm not 100% sure he followed the instructions precisely
15:03:33pamauryI think porting rockbox to the nwz isn't hard since it would be rockbox as an application, that I did all the heavy reverse engineer (I think) and so on, but I don't have the time. if only kugel had more time ^^
15:04:37lebelliumAsk lorenzo to buy a NWZ, he's familiar with RaaA now ahaha
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15:05:09pamaurylebellium: he is porting rockbox to the YP-Z5 and working on stmp3600 with me, so no ^^
15:05:57lebelliumbut he's the only one who did RaaA on a normal player (not Android or so) AFAIK?
15:10:50pamauryI think so...maybe after the YP-Z5
15:11:07lebelliumand after YP-R1 :)
15:11:47pamaurywe could also do a "normal" port the NWZ, there are using the em1 soc for which I got the documentation but it will be longer and more error prone (bricking), I already unbricked my nwz twice when experimenting
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15:13:24lebelliumI don't see much disadvantage of RaaA on YP-R0, even concerns about battery life vs normal port are partly gone
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15:14:11lebelliumso I assume RaaA on Walkman would be great as well
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15:24:18kugelpamaury: ?
15:24:52pamauryI was filling your free time :)
15:25:13kugelI saw :) How can I help with that port?
15:25:25pamaurydoing it ? ;)
15:25:40lebelliumheh! YP-R0 port is not finished kugel! \o/
15:26:58pamauryhaha. Seriously, if you have free time again one day and want to do some port, I think the sony nwz are a good candidate
15:27:07kugelpamaury: hehe. I dont have it though
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16:39:04Torneanyone know what player "Support for gmini ATA interface" might refer to? (r5622, in 2005)
16:39:37B4gderthe gmini:
16:39:56Torneoh :)
16:40:11Tornei guess i coudl have found that ;)
16:40:30Tornei'm not sure what to do with check_registers
16:40:34Torneit's tempting to just remove it
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16:40:43Tornebut i have no idea why it was done in the first place
16:41:19Tornepossibly some of the archoses benefited from our ata driver waiting for this indicator of readiness before continuing boot :)
16:42:01B4gderthe gmini port never went very far due to its annoying specs, including a 16bit cpu
16:42:32TorneSo, yeah. the original version of the ata driver, from the beginning of time, wrote values to the regsiters and then expected tor ead them back
16:42:44Tornethat commit for the gmini changed it to retry 64 times with 1 tick intervals
16:42:51Tornewhich suggests that on that device it *didn't work* the first time
16:43:04Torneit also doesn't work on this SATA adapter
16:43:09Tornebut it *never* works, even if you retry :)
16:43:39Tornei guess it's unlikely anyone will be sad if i break an unfinished port
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16:54:48funmanit can be added back later if someone works on it (i.e. never i guess)
16:55:01Tornewell, it's been there so long that it's possible some other port was also depending on it
16:55:11Tornethe original version tried once and then just failed ata_init if it didn't work
16:55:18Torneso the original archoses must not have had a problem with it
16:55:27Tornebut everything since 2005 has had 64 retries before aborting :)
16:56:15*Torne retests disk access on the ipod now that he's restored the fs in itunes.
17:00:17TorneHuh. No partition found :)
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17:39:15Torneyeah, this disk is just unreliable as hell in rockbox, despite working perfectly in teh OF
17:39:25Torneit doesn't even manage to read the ATA IDENTIFY info correctly
17:39:33Tornethe model name is corrupted :/
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18:38:36AlexPTorne: Is it (likely to be) that the OF just doesn't check?
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18:42:24bertrikor perhaps our ATA transport layer has a bug
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21:50:53TorneAlexP: no, looks like random transfers are corrupt, even with DMA turned off, and even such basic stuff as IDENTIFY. The diagmode image returns the righ tidentify info, but we get a scrambled model name even when it boots
21:51:02Torneand it frequently decides its partition table is invalid because it got a scrambled sector 0
21:51:06Tornebut it's not consistent
21:51:25Torneif i shuffle the code around to change the timing it suddenly starts booting, but all the bitmaps it loads are corrupt
21:51:33Torneand writing to the FAT usually makes it panic
21:51:51Torneyou can get itt o playing audio, but i think all the transfers are fucked anyway and it's just harder to notice with audio data :/
21:52:15soapwhich ipod is this?
21:52:28Torneipodvideo with a mSATA SSD in an IDE converter
21:52:47Tornethe converter (or the ssd) appears to be shonky garbage
21:52:52Tornebut the OF has absolutely zero issues :/
21:53:06Tornei can do huge transfers over usb with zero errors in the OF
21:53:19Torneand diagmode tells me all the right disk info
21:53:22Tornebut we can barely boot.
21:53:23soapbuschel worked on some RAM (IIRC) timing issues WRT my ipod Nano, showed up as ATA errors when the unit got hot...
21:53:58soapI was able to force the errors consistently by heating the unit, and consistently prevent them by cooling it...
21:54:06Tornei thought i'd fixed it by killing check_registers() which basically always fails
21:54:24Tornebut that was apparently just a time when it happened to get a valid mbr
21:54:25soapmaybe neither here nor there, but don't the Nano 1st gen and Video share much hardware?
21:54:38Torneyeah, they are both pp5020
21:54:44Torneand use ata/etc
21:55:01Tornehm actually
21:55:04soapthough maybe that converter is just a filthy piece of cobbled together strings and chewing gum.
21:55:10Torneif you asssume it's something other than the disk/converter itself
21:55:13gevaertssoap: didn't that failure mode require DMA?
21:55:18Tornethe battery level on this unit appears to behave very badly
21:55:32Torneat least the one displayed in rockbox
21:55:38Torneit frequently seems to show that it's badly discharged
21:55:39soapgevaerts, Now that you mention it I believe it did - but it's been so long and my memory is so bad...
21:55:43Tornewhen i'm pretty sure it's not.
21:55:51Torneyeah, i turned DMA off on this to elimiate that as a cause
21:55:54Tornedoesn't make any difference
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21:56:58Tornei wonder if the battery is screwed
21:57:10Tornemarginal power affeting the drive/converter?
21:57:38Tornethe thing is, there are several people on the forums who have similar mSATA SSDs in similar adapters (but not necessarily the same) and they all have the same problems
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21:59:34Tornei'll have another play with it tomorrow maybe
21:59:38Tornebut for now i am bored/stumped ;)
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22:15:12copperre: saving bandwidth on the server
22:16:29copper[Saint] was bitching about 4 KiB, but the theme site doesn't compress HTML with gzip, and doesn't give caching instructions
22:16:52copperthe Fuze+ theme page is 102 KiB
22:17:10copperby gzipping, you could reduce it to 14 KiB
22:17:33 Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:27:773:0:feed:c0f:fee)
22:17:35copperand by setting a cache timeout to something sane, you could save a little bit more
22:18:20copperand of course, not only will that save bandwidth on the server, it will also make the page render faster on the client does use gzip
22:19:17copperno caching instructions though
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22:34:42pamaurycan somebody recall me what is the recording monitor and what audiohw_set_monitor does ?
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22:44:32CXIVI want to buy one of the Sansa players , which is most stable with Rockbox?
22:46:12jpt9I've found my Clip+ to be quite stable, though I use the OF for USB and charging.
22:46:21jpt9(Sort of a habit from my old e250R.)
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22:49:40CXIVI read on forums that two plugins are not working on Zip model , which plugins?
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23:55:41*[Saint] politely tells copper to watch his mouth
23:56:51RiDyou're back from the undead :O
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