#rockbox 2013-03-23

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#rockbox log for 2013-03-23

00:00:16	lebellium	ok but PNG is more efficient (to save some KB) and has native transparency support, right?
00:00:58	soap	how many KB are you needing to save?
00:01:09	gevaerts	BMP also has transparency
00:01:23	lebellium	I don't really need, it's just a theoritical question
00:01:32	gevaerts	So the only thing you're saving is a bit of diskspace
00:02:11	RiD	well, PNGMonster is a good tool to further reduce the PNG size
00:02:31	RiD	it works pretty well in UI elements that are not utter complex
00:02:31	gevaerts	Rather irrelevant if we don't do png :)
00:02:35	soap	Fine. let's assume for sake of argument PNG themes would be 0KB in size.
00:03:06	soap	How much storage space are you going to regain?
00:04:46	soap	It's the rare iPod Video (big screen) them which breaks 200K.
00:04:50	soap	theme
00:05:24	gevaerts	the backdrop is around 300K on those, so I suspect you're missing something
00:05:53	gevaerts	Not all themes use a full backdrop image of course
00:06:13	RiD	backdrop here is 1,5MB (and it's mostly black), but storage space isn't critical at all
00:07:00	RiD	anyways, is there a way to use a progressbar on .SBS that reacts on touch?
00:07:04	gevaerts	RiD: you can probably get rid of most of it then, and just use the backdrop layer
00:07:39	RiD	gevaerts yeah, but it's no issue and the theme is still at the early stages :P
00:07:54	gevaerts	soap: for my medieval theme, savings would be around half a megabyte
00:08:09	gevaerts	So this probably would be worth it for theme hoarders
00:08:12	soap	yea, I'm missing .zip
00:08:26	gevaerts	Not for people who just install the theme they use though, I'd say
00:11:03	lebellium	actually it's a bit pity that the theme website requires PNG while themes use BMP and the UI sim takes screenshots in BMP.
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00:48:20	RiD	is there a way to create a shortcut to WPS in SBS, using touch areas?
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01:21:31	[Saint]	RiD: iirc, the 'menu' touch area should go back to the screen it came from if you're already in the menu
01:21:52	[Saint]	this behavior may have changed though, or, I could be entirely wrong and it never existed :)
01:22:23	RiD	menu touch area? i think i know what you mean with that. I think it only goes back to the previous one
01:22:43	[Saint]	the 'browse' touch area either does, or used to (or again, I imagined it) behave the same way.
01:22:53	RiD	http://i53.tinypic.com/2mxr4es.png - is the "menu" touch area the one that says Rockboxd?
01:23:03	RiD	and it says different things depending on the area
01:23:11	[Saint]	I have no way of telling from a screenshot.
01:23:48	RiD	"browse" doesn't react on SBS, by the way
01:23:55	[Saint]	But, yeah - there's no "go to the wps" touch area. It would be trivial to add, though.
01:24:11	[Saint]	also, yeah it does.
01:24:40	RiD	"yeah it does" what are you referring to? Sorry, got a little bit confused
01:24:52	[Saint]	browse, works in the .sbs
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01:27:04	RiD	not here, lol
01:27:31	[Saint]	Well, I'll rephrase that - it _should_, it definitely used to, and I have code lurking around that suggests I was using it myself - ...but, things break/change.
01:28:59	RiD	I see. Well, I'll be fine without that
01:29:06	RiD	better than no rockbox at all
01:30:13	[Saint]	What target are you working with? 800x480 landscape if the exif data isn't lying to me.
01:30:16	[Saint]	Odd.
01:30:40	RiD	yes. I'm using rockbox as an application on Nokia N900, so it's not even official builds
01:30:51	[Saint]	Looks like my font too. Nice.
01:31:34	RiD	DroidSans?
01:31:50	[Saint]	Yeppers. There's a blast from the past.
01:32:42	[Saint]	There's another (slightly tidier) set available through the extras page - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30204410/Rockbox%20as%20an%20Application/Font%20Pack/font-pack.zip
01:33:22	[Saint]	Ubuntu and GNU Unifont antialiased fonts, in rather large sizes. (up to 52pt iirc).
01:33:44	RiD	32 is somewhere around the sweet spot for this screen :P
01:33:53	RiD	and thanks for the link, that's welcome
01:34:06	[Saint]	Not a problem.
01:36:36	ZincAlloy	you should try a larger icon set with that font :
01:37:00	RiD	not one of my pictures :P
01:37:18	ZincAlloy	I see :)
01:37:29	RiD	but yeah - i'm using the same icon set
01:37:39	ZincAlloy	^^
01:37:51	[Saint]	if you are interested, there's larger icons based on the Tango! iconset in the source.
01:38:23	[Saint]	http://git.rockbox.org/?p=rockbox.git;a=tree;f=icons;h=4ebecf96168c5b1b4dce9afee4d9e71a0db22a7b;hb=HEAD
01:39:01	[Saint]	32x32 is as high as we have in the source, but there is also a script to convert an icon-strip of arbitrary size.
01:39:26	RiD	if some sort of vector image is given - right?
01:39:49	RiD	resizing a .bmp wouldn't be pretty :P
01:40:01	[Saint]	yes, it will pull from the tango svg sources.
01:40:18	[Saint]	there's SVG images for the icons used in the source tree as well.
01:40:39	ZincAlloy	vector images.. now that would have been quite something for cabbiev2 :D
01:42:18	[Saint]	you can just convert the svg to a bitmap with transparency and it will "just work" as well, if you don't want to bother with the (kinda hacky) script.
01:42:28	RiD	This is how it currently looks: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1536586/N900/rockbox/screenshots/Screenshot-20130323-004137.png
01:42:38	[Saint]	Rockbox has accepted bitmaps with true transparency for some time now.
01:42:47	[Saint]	No need for nasty fuschia anymore.
01:42:57	RiD	i used that for the white buttons
01:43:29	[Saint]	Ohhhhhhh - that looks quite cool. Nice.
01:43:39	ZincAlloy	I like that
01:44:02	ZincAlloy	clean and simple
01:44:11	RiD	i'm going to release it once i finish everything. Might have to change the icons though - these are from the stock media player
01:44:21	RiD	i mean, the play etc buttons
01:44:30	RiD	not that i would get sued for that, they're pretty simple
01:44:41	[Saint]	The only thing I would do to that is shift the text in the line selector a little, so it isn't hard up against the left side of the selector.
01:44:58	[Saint]	But, that would require drawing the lists with the skin engine.
01:45:30	RiD	i'm still pretty much new around rockbox theming, but i will later take a look at how other skins do it
01:45:42	RiD	i don't really like the text position either
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01:47:14	ZincAlloy	yeah. that would be a great improvement. with tiny fonts you get away with it being stuck to the left side of the bar, but as screens and fonts get bigger it just looks awkward
01:47:44	RiD	but then - what would i display before the text?
01:47:49	RiD	it would look empty too :P
01:48:47	ZincAlloy	empty or tidy?
01:49:31	RiD	leave that for later, don't overwhelm me :(
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01:50:38	RiD	i haven't even touched the WPS yet
01:50:44	ZincAlloy	designing stuff can be such a headache ^^
01:50:52	RiD	touch*
01:51:17	RiD	touched* english fart
01:52:02	RiD	i wanted to incorporate a seekbar in SBS but i feel like it is quite useless if i can't use it
01:52:10	[Saint]	example of shifting the text with skinned lists:
01:52:12	[Saint]	http://pastebin.com/qPadAjLc
01:52:41	[Saint]	replace the UI viewport size, and W,H with the UI viewport width, height, and you're done.
01:53:02	[Saint]	also, replace the gradient colors and foreground color to draw the gradient line selector.
01:53:15	[Saint]	...its an example to work from, at least.
01:53:58	RiD	if possible, an image instead of a gradient would be nice, so that i could add noise to it and reduce the banding effect :P
01:54:24	[Saint]	It is /possible/, but it greatly complicates things.
01:54:28	ZincAlloy	would look cool if the icons were placed on the gradient line selector, too
01:54:55	[Saint]	that is trivial.
01:55:40	[Saint]	[13:52:04] <RiD> i wanted to incorporate a seekbar in SBS but i feel like it is quite useless if i can't use it <−− what do you mean by this?
01:55:54	[Saint]	You sould be able to do a progressbar on the .sbs just fine.
01:56:05	RiD	It shows the progressbar, but i can't "seek" with it
01:56:13	RiD	so it's only visual
01:56:32	[Saint]	are you trying to use the ffwd/rrwd touch areas?
01:56:42	[Saint]	...'cos, that won't work.
01:56:52	[Saint]	But, you can just seek with the bar itself.
01:56:55	RiD	i noticed that too, but no, i tried progressbar
01:57:01	[Saint]	Weird.
01:57:05	[Saint]	JdGordon: ^
01:57:11	RiD	progressbar touch area*. it doesn't work without it either
01:57:51	[Saint]	it isn't documented I don't think, but, progressbars set up their own touch areas now.
01:57:51	[Saint]	So, it should "just work".
01:58:25	[Saint]	ANd it _should_ work inside the .sbs also, but, I'll take your word for it that it doesn't.
01:58:25	RiD	should :P
01:58:38	[Saint]	You've got this far, so I'll assume you know what you're doing ;)
01:59:38	RiD	The builds are not official and something could have gotten broken on the porting
02:00
02:00:00	RiD	but then i'd expect for general buttons to not work either
02:00:09	[Saint]	Our 'skin engine guy' selfishly went and got married, and works for a living...so, we'll have to beat him with large sticks.
02:00:27	[Saint]	:)
02:00:28	RiD	i got a nokia 3310 somewhere
02:00:32	RiD	might use it as brick
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02:05:06	RiD	[Saint] that code shows one line only. How can I make it to show more?
02:07:23	[Saint]	Hummm...this might be some weirdness with the maemo port. It should fill the UI viewport with as many lines as can fit.
02:07:36	RiD	could be
02:07:50	RiD	if i scroll, the line changes text
02:08:56	[Saint]	it should draw as many "foo, width, height" lines as it can fit in the UI viewport.
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02:18:30	RiD	oh also, is %T playlist action supposed to work on SBS?
02:18:58	[Saint]	Yes.
02:19:06	RiD	Another thing that doesn't work, lol
02:19:27	*	[Saint] apparently has a lot of things to test this afternoon.
02:19:57	RiD	oh you're in a very different timezone. I'm going to sleep in a few mins
02:20:13	RiD	(01:19)
02:20:47	[Saint]	14:20 Sat - 23 - Mar
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02:24:11	[Saint]	http://pastebin.com/8P3eBcKe woks as intended for me
02:24:38	[Saint]	(just for lists, not icons, icons would be added using the same method)
02:25:09	[Saint]	works, too.
02:26:33	[Saint]	it looks a lot more complicated that in is: the %cs<\|...\|> conditional block is just needed to tell the .sbs not to try drawing a list in screens where we don't want/need lists drawn.
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02:29:15	RiD	LOL. I see why it didn't work
02:29:41	RiD	i set the height of each one to 480... ofc it wouldn't fit more than one
02:29:56	[Saint]	Aha :)
02:30:13	RiD	i guess some sort of "smooth" scrolling isn't supported?
02:30:43	[Saint]	Come again?
02:30:54	RiD	what?
02:31:07	[Saint]	What is "smooth scrolling"?
02:31:26	RiD	ever used an android phone or any other touch phone?
02:31:57	RiD	when you scroll through the contacts, they move pixel by pixel
02:32:33	RiD	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9eDkhHdNLI
02:32:54	RiD	not the best video but you get the idea
02:33:00	[Saint]	Yeah, sure, but I'm not sure to what you are referring exactly. Our scrolling should work silimarly - with the exception that it will jump to the item youplace your finger on when you start scrolling.
02:34:15	RiD	well, when i scroll using your code, it isn't smooth. You only see the text changing, line by line
02:35:18	[Saint]	Odd. That shouldn't happen - but skinned lists and touchscreen possibly conflict with each other.
02:36:18	RiD	well, i'm going to sleep
02:36:38	[Saint]	Night.
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06:37:05	mathis_	morning
06:42:50	[Saint]	I'm sure it is somewhere.
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11:49:08	webgu12	pamaury: hello. yesterday I asked here about iriver e-series status and left, read the logs, thanks for the info, i'll contact him, maybe will be helpful in any way
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14:47:51	MarcAndersen	Hi. I just got a Sony Nwz-s755 walkman and I would like to know if it will be supported by rockbox? It is listed on the sony nw wiki page but I can't find the target status.
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14:50:07	AlexP	MarcAndersen: It isn't supported, and is only likely to be so if an interested owner does the work
14:50:09	pamaury	MarcAndersen: i've began some preliminary work on the nwz but no port has begu
14:50:09	pamaury	n
14:50:29	AlexP	Or pamaury gets bored again :)
14:50:50	pamaury	if your nwz can be connected as UMS and your are running linux, you can try to run the tool I wrote, it will tell you if you can hope or not
14:51:18	pamaury	I think I ported it to windows, don't remember
14:51:45	MarcAndersen	I do have a cd of vinux 3.0.2 based on ubuntu 10.4.4 I think
14:52:06	pamaury	AlexP: well, I've done a fair bit of reverse engineering on my nwz-e463 already ^^
14:52:21	pamaury	MarcAndersen: does it connected in mass storage or MTP under windows ?
14:52:56	MarcAndersen	Currently it is shown as a media player called walkman
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14:53:51	pamaury	hum, that's MTP I think :( I don't know how to send commands to nwz in mtp mode. If you are willing to, please boot under Linux, make sure that it connects in mass storage mode
14:54:36	lebellium	there is a UMS driver trick for Windows too, no?
14:54:42	MarcAndersen	well I would need to disconnect from irc then. How can I get in contact with you?
14:55:09	pamaury	lebellium: is there ? I don't know windows at all
14:55:39	pamaury	MarcAndersen: by email, see http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/AmauryPouly
14:56:05	pamaury	MarcAndersen: btw, was it you who asked me about the ZEN X-Fi a while ago ?
14:56:41	lebellium	I remember reading on generationmp3 or anythingbutipod that there was a trick, at least on some Sony models, to force UMS on Windows by manually installing a driver. I look for the information again
14:57:11	MarcAndersen	thanks. I will boot linux and connect it and then send you the answer. And yes, it was, i don't have my hands on it again before the start of april.
14:57:37	pamaury	I've make some progress on it, I hope to get it ported pretty soon
14:57:53	MarcAndersen	really? that player is great!
14:58:38	MarcAndersen	But as i am blind I won't mess a lot with firmware before you get a self installing thing out
14:59:51	pamaury	sure
15:00
15:00:31	MarcAndersen	could you contact me when/if you get a test port out for the x-fi or the nwz?
15:00:49	pamaury	ok
15:01:05	MarcAndersen	thanks
15:01:29	lebellium	pamaury: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showpost.php?p=288488&postcount=17
15:02:05	lebellium	and the following posts
15:02:13	lebellium	I don't know if it works for all MTP walkman though
15:02:44	pamaury	interesting, I think I directed a walkman user to that thread some time ago and it didn't work but I'm not 100% sure he followed the instructions precisely
15:03:33	pamaury	I think porting rockbox to the nwz isn't hard since it would be rockbox as an application, that I did all the heavy reverse engineer (I think) and so on, but I don't have the time. if only kugel had more time ^^
15:04:37	lebellium	Ask lorenzo to buy a NWZ, he's familiar with RaaA now ahaha
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15:05:09	pamaury	lebellium: he is porting rockbox to the YP-Z5 and working on stmp3600 with me, so no ^^
15:05:57	lebellium	but he's the only one who did RaaA on a normal player (not Android or so) AFAIK?
15:10:50	pamaury	I think so...maybe after the YP-Z5
15:11:07	lebellium	and after YP-R1 :)
15:11:47	pamaury	we could also do a "normal" port the NWZ, there are using the em1 soc for which I got the documentation but it will be longer and more error prone (bricking), I already unbricked my nwz twice when experimenting
15:11:55	pamaury	*they
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15:13:24	lebellium	I don't see much disadvantage of RaaA on YP-R0, even concerns about battery life vs normal port are partly gone
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15:14:11	lebellium	so I assume RaaA on Walkman would be great as well
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15:24:18	kugel	pamaury: ?
15:24:52	pamaury	I was filling your free time :)
15:25:13	kugel	I saw :) How can I help with that port?
15:25:25	pamaury	doing it ? ;)
15:25:40	lebellium	heh! YP-R0 port is not finished kugel! \o/
15:26:58	pamaury	haha. Seriously, if you have free time again one day and want to do some port, I think the sony nwz are a good candidate
15:27:07	kugel	pamaury: hehe. I dont have it though
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16:39:04	Torne	anyone know what player "Support for gmini ATA interface" might refer to? (r5622, in 2005)
16:39:37	B4gder	the gmini: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_Gmini_series
16:39:56	Torne	oh :)
16:40:11	Torne	i guess i coudl have found that ;)
16:40:30	Torne	i'm not sure what to do with check_registers
16:40:34	Torne	it's tempting to just remove it
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16:40:43	Torne	but i have no idea why it was done in the first place
16:41:19	Torne	possibly some of the archoses benefited from our ata driver waiting for this indicator of readiness before continuing boot :)
16:42:01	B4gder	the gmini port never went very far due to its annoying specs, including a 16bit cpu
16:42:11	Torne	hm
16:42:32	Torne	So, yeah. the original version of the ata driver, from the beginning of time, wrote values to the regsiters and then expected tor ead them back
16:42:44	Torne	that commit for the gmini changed it to retry 64 times with 1 tick intervals
16:42:51	Torne	which suggests that on that device it didn't work the first time
16:43:04	Torne	it also doesn't work on this SATA adapter
16:43:09	Torne	but it never works, even if you retry :)
16:43:39	Torne	i guess it's unlikely anyone will be sad if i break an unfinished port
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16:54:48	funman	it can be added back later if someone works on it (i.e. never i guess)
16:55:01	Torne	well, it's been there so long that it's possible some other port was also depending on it
16:55:11	Torne	the original version tried once and then just failed ata_init if it didn't work
16:55:18	Torne	so the original archoses must not have had a problem with it
16:55:27	Torne	but everything since 2005 has had 64 retries before aborting :)
16:56:15	*	Torne retests disk access on the ipod now that he's restored the fs in itunes.
17:00
17:00:17	Torne	Huh. No partition found :)
17:00:38	Torne	interesting.
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17:39:15	Torne	yeah, this disk is just unreliable as hell in rockbox, despite working perfectly in teh OF
17:39:18	Torne	weiiird
17:39:25	Torne	it doesn't even manage to read the ATA IDENTIFY info correctly
17:39:33	Torne	the model name is corrupted :/
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18:38:36	AlexP	Torne: Is it (likely to be) that the OF just doesn't check?
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18:42:24	bertrik	or perhaps our ATA transport layer has a bug
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21:26:39	RiD	hi
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21:50:53	Torne	AlexP: no, looks like random transfers are corrupt, even with DMA turned off, and even such basic stuff as IDENTIFY. The diagmode image returns the righ tidentify info, but we get a scrambled model name even when it boots
21:51:02	Torne	and it frequently decides its partition table is invalid because it got a scrambled sector 0
21:51:06	Torne	but it's not consistent
21:51:23	AlexP	nice
21:51:25	Torne	if i shuffle the code around to change the timing it suddenly starts booting, but all the bitmaps it loads are corrupt
21:51:33	Torne	and writing to the FAT usually makes it panic
21:51:51	Torne	you can get itt o playing audio, but i think all the transfers are fucked anyway and it's just harder to notice with audio data :/
21:52:15	soap	which ipod is this?
21:52:28	Torne	ipodvideo with a mSATA SSD in an IDE converter
21:52:47	Torne	the converter (or the ssd) appears to be shonky garbage
21:52:52	Torne	but the OF has absolutely zero issues :/
21:53:06	Torne	i can do huge transfers over usb with zero errors in the OF
21:53:19	Torne	and diagmode tells me all the right disk info
21:53:22	Torne	but we can barely boot.
21:53:23	soap	buschel worked on some RAM (IIRC) timing issues WRT my ipod Nano, showed up as ATA errors when the unit got hot...
21:53:31	Torne	hmmm
21:53:58	soap	I was able to force the errors consistently by heating the unit, and consistently prevent them by cooling it...
21:54:06	Torne	i thought i'd fixed it by killing check_registers() which basically always fails
21:54:24	Torne	but that was apparently just a time when it happened to get a valid mbr
21:54:25	soap	maybe neither here nor there, but don't the Nano 1st gen and Video share much hardware?
21:54:38	Torne	yeah, they are both pp5020
21:54:44	Torne	and use ata/etc
21:55:01	Torne	hm actually
21:55:04	soap	though maybe that converter is just a filthy piece of cobbled together strings and chewing gum.
21:55:10	Torne	if you asssume it's something other than the disk/converter itself
21:55:13	gevaerts	soap: didn't that failure mode require DMA?
21:55:18	Torne	the battery level on this unit appears to behave very badly
21:55:32	Torne	at least the one displayed in rockbox
21:55:38	Torne	it frequently seems to show that it's badly discharged
21:55:39	soap	gevaerts, Now that you mention it I believe it did - but it's been so long and my memory is so bad...
21:55:43	Torne	when i'm pretty sure it's not.
21:55:51	Torne	yeah, i turned DMA off on this to elimiate that as a cause
21:55:54	Torne	doesn't make any difference
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21:56:58	Torne	i wonder if the battery is screwed
21:57:10	Torne	marginal power affeting the drive/converter?
21:57:38	Torne	the thing is, there are several people on the forums who have similar mSATA SSDs in similar adapters (but not necessarily the same) and they all have the same problems
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21:59:34	Torne	i'll have another play with it tomorrow maybe
21:59:38	Torne	but for now i am bored/stumped ;)
22:00
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22:15:12	copper	re: saving bandwidth on the server
22:16:29	copper	[Saint] was bitching about 4 KiB, but the theme site doesn't compress HTML with gzip, and doesn't give caching instructions
22:16:52	copper	the Fuze+ theme page is 102 KiB
22:17:10	copper	by gzipping, you could reduce it to 14 KiB
22:17:33		Join kevku [0] (~kevku@2001:470:27:773:0:feed:c0f:fee)
22:17:35	copper	and by setting a cache timeout to something sane, you could save a little bit more
22:18:20	copper	and of course, not only will that save bandwidth on the server, it will also make the page render faster on the client
22:19:01	copper	www.rockbox.org does use gzip
22:19:17	copper	no caching instructions though
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22:34:42	pamaury	can somebody recall me what is the recording monitor and what audiohw_set_monitor does ?
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22:43:31	CXIV	Hello
22:44:25	Kenneth_Hutchins	hello
22:44:32	CXIV	I want to buy one of the Sansa players , which is most stable with Rockbox?
22:46:12	jpt9	I've found my Clip+ to be quite stable, though I use the OF for USB and charging.
22:46:21	jpt9	(Sort of a habit from my old e250R.)
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22:49:40	CXIV	I read on forums that two plugins are not working on Zip model , which plugins?
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23:55:41	*	[Saint] politely tells copper to watch his mouth
23:56:51	RiD	you're back from the undead :O
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