| 00:00:13 | lebellium | [Saint]: Who has a Clip Zip with USB working flawlessly (meaning failing as often as OF, i.e. never) ? |
| 00:00:30 | | Quit Rower (Quit: Hmmm...) |
| 00:00:51 | [Saint] | Is this some fictional world where the Zip is the only AMS target? |
| 00:00:51 | [Saint] | or, am I missing something? |
| 00:01:27 | [Saint] | the fact that it may or may not work for one target, for some people, does not negate the fact that it does for many others. |
| 00:02:35 | lebellium | sure, but the question was "does USB work properly on all AMSv2 targets?" |
| 00:02:39 | lebellium | I answer |
| 00:02:42 | lebellium | clip zip |
| 00:03:07 | [Saint] | and you said "not at all" |
| 00:03:09 | [Saint] | which is false. |
| 00:04:01 | lebellium | that's more a linguistic problem then. I'm not a english native speaker as you know. |
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| 00:56:44 | saratoga | FWIW, the Clip+ USB works very well for me, although i think it still fails the first time i plug it into a new PC due to windows not finding a driver or something |
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| 01:44:47 | funman | [7]: it works for me at least.. i still have 2 nanos around to make tests btw |
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| 09:53:06 | lebellium | kugel: what is the penultimate element? |
| 10:00 |
| 10:06:38 | copper | lebellium: http://prototyperaptor.bandcamp.com/album/penultimate |
| 10:06:46 | copper | :P |
| 10:07:43 | lebellium | maybe I should have precised I refer to FS #12848 :) |
| 10:07:45 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12848 Signal strength tag %tr doesn't divide equally when using conditionnals (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 10:12:33 | gevaerts | lebellium: last but one |
| 10:19:06 | lebellium | hum |
| 10:19:08 | lebellium | ok |
| 10:19:15 | lebellium | I don't know the answer then |
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| 11:19:30 | subthalamus | hi; q1-is there a rockbox-like router focused distro for a no mmu Brecis communications MSP2010 Multi-core MIPS32 cpu device? |
| 11:20:01 | subthalamus | q2- anybody having rockbox running on a zen sleek? |
| 11:23:43 | Zagor | subthalamus: rockbox is not linux-based, so there really are no "rockbox like" distros. but uclinux runs (ran) on the MSP2010. |
| 11:24:35 | subthalamus | Zagor: thanks |
| 11:26:02 | Zagor | as for the zen sleek, no there is no port for it. |
| 11:29:41 | subthalamus | but :( I saw the sleek photo was working? |
| 11:29:48 | subthalamus | how different are they? |
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| 11:31:02 | Zagor | where did you see that? |
| 11:44:29 | kugel | lebellium: I mean, can you use the penultimate one for the 85%-99.9% range |
| 11:44:49 | subthalamus | hmm, I can't find it... All I'm finding is http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CreativeZVMPort |
| 11:44:51 | kugel | IIRC it's intended to have the last element be exact 100% for bar tags |
| 11:45:47 | lebellium | that's how it works for the battery indicator for example. I understood that yesterday thanks to [Saint] |
| 11:45:58 | lebellium | but I'm not sure it works the same for the signal strength tag |
| 11:48:27 | lebellium | or maybe you're right |
| 11:48:35 | lebellium | I'm trying %?tr<%xd(Va)|%xd(Vb)|%xd(Vc)|%xd(Vd)|%xd(Ve)|%xd(Vf)|%xd(Vf)> |
| 11:48:41 | subthalamus | Zagor: maybe this was it, but that was in 2008 so they probably never finished? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?action=printpage;topic=14838.0 |
| 11:50:11 | Zagor | subthalamus: exactly. it was never even reverse engineered. no code written. |
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| 11:56:29 | lebellium | oh I guess you're right Kugel. Hum I have to leave now but I'll check that further tonight |
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| 12:16:18 | pamaury | wodz: I got my hand on an archos 24c vision, I think it's rk2708 based, need to open it to be sure but that's written in the system information menu |
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| 12:25:03 | JdGordon | lebellium: ping |
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| 12:34:26 | lebellium_gs2 | JdGordon: pong |
| 12:35:40 | JdGordon | i've got a new version of that patch which i accidentally pushed :/ |
| 12:35:47 | JdGordon | i tested in the sim so it looks like it works |
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| 12:37:04 | JdGordon | so give it a try and close the task if it fixes it please |
| 12:38:26 | lebellium_gs2 | Ok thanks, I'll try it tonight when I'm back home (I can't close a task though) |
| 12:39:28 | JdGordon | oh, ok, leave a msg if it is fixed |
| 12:39:37 | JdGordon | should be :) didnt crash the sim |
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| 13:39:21 | lebellium_gs2 | JdGordon: do you confirm FS #12848 is intended behavior and not a bug? |
| 13:39:35 | lebellium_gs2 | FS #12848 |
| 13:39:36 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12848 Signal strength tag %tr doesn't divide equally when using conditionnals (bugs, unconfirmed) |
| 13:40:44 | lebellium_gs2 | Actually it divides 1 to N-1 into equal parts and N = 100% |
| 13:40:56 | lebellium_gs2 | ? |
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| 14:00 |
| 14:03:12 | Torne | yes, that's how bars are supposed to work :) |
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| 14:03:20 | Torne | you can just duplicate the last image |
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| 14:05:28 | lebellium_gs2 | Torne: thanks. It's a bit unfortunate I understand that only today after 1 year and half themeing. Now I have to update 8 themes lol |
| 14:06:26 | Torne | you're right that for signal strength it's not really importnat to distinguish 100% which will likely never happen anyway |
| 14:06:30 | Torne | but i think the bar code is just generic :) |
| 14:06:36 | Torne | and for other things 100% is a meaningful distinction to make |
| 14:06:45 | Torne | so, yeah, just duplicate the last image and then it should work as you want ;) |
| 14:07:42 | lebellium_gs2 | Great. So the bug ticket can be close I think |
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| 14:58:25 | pamaury | does someone recognise the logo on the sensor chip: http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ArchosVision24c (the small isolated chip labeled 5AG, A104) ? |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:00:52 | pamaury | found, it's synaptics |
| 15:04:41 | pamaury | the only manufacturer which logos doesn't match the name and which put the chip part on the third line instead of the first |
| 15:06:25 | pamaury | wodz: see http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/ArchosVision24c |
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| 15:09:21 | pamaury | funny a mp3 with camera |
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| 15:42:45 | pixelma | how can a music file have a camera? ;) |
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| 16:25:24 | lebellium| | Ahaha because in French "a mp3" means a "mp3 player". Powned pamaury :D |
| 16:25:42 | pamaury | I know, I wrote this knowing that it was incorrect ;) |
| 16:25:56 | lebellium| | Oh |
| 16:26:00 | pamaury | and pixelma fell into the trap :D |
| 16:26:35 | pamaury | but even "mp3" in French is incorrect, that's spoken language only |
| 16:26:45 | lebellium| | Indeed |
| 16:27:57 | pamaury | anyway that's my only mp3 player which has a camera |
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| 17:57:04 | TheSeven | [69894.016033] usb 1-1.5.2.2: new high-speed USB device number 104 using ehci_hcd |
| 17:57:04 | TheSeven | [69894.109151] usb 1-1.5.2.2: New USB device found, idVendor=ffff, idProduct=abcd |
| 17:57:04 | TheSeven | [69894.109157] usb 1-1.5.2.2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 |
| 17:57:04 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TheSeven |
| 17:57:04 | TheSeven | [69894.109160] usb 1-1.5.2.2: Product: iPod Nano 2G USB Test |
| 17:57:05 | TheSeven | [69894.109162] usb 1-1.5.2.2: Manufacturer: TheSeven |
| 17:57:06 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 17:57:06 | TheSeven | [69894.109168] usb 1-1.5.2.2: SerialNumber: ???????????? |
| 17:57:38 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 17:57:38 | * | TheSeven build a little ~4kB standalone USB binary using his stm32 code base |
| 17:58:03 | TheSeven | so yes, this is a completely different USB driver and stack |
| 17:58:25 | TheSeven | now that we have a working code base to compare with, who wants to take up porting it to rockbox? :) |
| 17:58:51 | | Part LinusN |
| 18:00 |
| 18:01:00 | | Quit Strife89 (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 18:02:08 | pamaury | TheSeven: I can do this I guess |
| 18:02:43 | pamaury | can you recall me where is your code ? I can do a quick and dirt port and post it to gerrit, I'll let you debug ^^ |
| 18:03:39 | | Quit dhrasmus (Quit: Leaving) |
| 18:04:23 | TheSeven | http://theseven.bounceme.net/~theseven/tmp/nano2g-usbtest.tar.gz |
| 18:05:09 | gevaerts | TheSeven: we need both, configurable in Settings/System ;) |
| 18:05:21 | gevaerts | Rockbox is all about choice! |
| 18:05:32 | TheSeven | lol |
| 18:05:57 | * | TheSeven was surprised that it took him less than 24h to port the required parts of his stm32 firmware code base to the s5l8701 :) |
| 18:06:12 | pamaury | I don't have the nano2g so obviously I can't test ^^ |
| 18:07:07 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 18:07:15 | * | TheSeven wonders how much differences there are in the usb core <=> driver interface between rockbox and his own core |
| 18:07:30 | TheSeven | given that I was influenced by rockbox's one before I wrote that one, probably not too many |
| 18:08:03 | TheSeven | it uses a fundamentally different approach for handling ep0 packets though |
| 18:10:24 | pamaury | The problem with rockbox usb stack is that it has to deal with different drivers and some of them don't really work that way. I would that it is not quite adapted to the synopsys otg, too high level not really event driven but nothing prevents you from reimplementing that in the driver if necessary |
| 18:11:50 | gevaerts | Maybe we need an optional middle layer? |
| 18:13:06 | TheSeven | gevaerts: you probably know more about the other USB drivers than me, but I'd think that the core to driver interface that I've used is fairly generic and can be adapted to most use cases. |
| 18:13:37 | gevaerts | I only really know the arc one, which seems to be the odd one out |
| 18:14:44 | TheSeven | http://pastie.org/7152723 |
| 18:15:17 | TheSeven | do you think the arc one could be mapped to that somehow? |
| 18:15:45 | pamaury | TheSeven: can you confirm that arm/s5l8700/usb-s5l8700.c is unused |
| 18:16:26 | TheSeven | that looks like a stub for meizu m3/m6 and yp-something |
| 18:16:32 | pamaury | TheSeven: how do you transfer out data on ep0 ? |
| 18:16:38 | pamaury | (with your interface) |
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| 18:17:01 | TheSeven | OUT in usb sense? (i.e. host to device)? |
| 18:17:11 | pamaury | yes |
| 18:17:28 | pamaury | ep0_start_rx doesn't take any buffer |
| 18:17:40 | TheSeven | the driver listens to that and reports it to the core from an IRQ handler |
| 18:19:43 | TheSeven | pamaury: http://pastie.org/7152777 |
| 18:19:55 | TheSeven | that's the driver-to-core direction |
| 18:20:21 | TheSeven | er, usb_ep0_start_rx and usb_ep0_start_tx don't belong in there |
| 18:20:58 | pamaury | I don't get it, the driver has an internal buffer from that which it gives to the core on completion ? |
| 18:21:17 | * | gevaerts tries to remember how it all works |
| 18:21:21 | TheSeven | and in struct usb_instance there's a 64 byte buffer for setup packets |
| 18:22:03 | pamaury | hum, so that's quite synopsys specific because you cannot received more than 64 bytes of data at a time on EP0 |
| 18:22:09 | TheSeven | that's what I meant with "ep0 is handled funamentally different" |
| 18:22:09 | pamaury | *receive |
| 18:22:49 | TheSeven | hm, I wonder if that only applies to setup packets |
| 18:22:57 | TheSeven | which can never be more than 64 bytes |
| 18:23:52 | pamaury | on the synopsys, everything is packet-based iirc (in pio mode), so you cannot receive more than one packet. I don't remember all the details of it |
| 18:24:56 | pamaury | it's the same core as the on the amsv2 right ? I can test on the clip+ then |
| 18:26:29 | TheSeven | looks like it can indeed only handle 64 bytes at a time on ep0 |
| 18:27:29 | TheSeven | could probably be changed though |
| 18:27:59 | pamaury | your driver uses PIO or DMA or either ? |
| 18:28:05 | TheSeven | it can do both |
| 18:28:44 | TheSeven | its PIO mode is really funny, you basically re-implement its DMA engine in software |
| 18:30:47 | TheSeven | changing that driver to receive ep0 data into an arbitrary buffer would be trivial, but then it could happen that a setup packet ends up inside it while you're expecting a data stage => might needs special care |
| 18:31:12 | TheSeven | but, tbh, do we really need to do >64 bytes on EP0? |
| 18:31:52 | gevaerts | IN (i.e. device to host), definitely. OUT, not sure |
| 18:31:56 | TheSeven | (only affects the host-to-device direction, the other direction can already handle several kilobytes at once) |
| 18:31:57 | | Join lebellium_gs2 [0] (~lebellium@80.215.1.70) |
| 18:32:21 | TheSeven | the only standard device request that could use it is SET_DESCRIPTOR IIRC |
| 18:32:35 | pamaury | I don't think any of our drivers needs >64 on OUT, we don't implement set_descriptor anyway iirc |
| 18:32:50 | TheSeven | yeah, that's why I made that decision as well to keep things simple |
| 18:33:02 | * | gevaerts nods |
| 18:34:06 | TheSeven | the only other real difference of the _ep0 variant of the transfer functions is that they take care of the ep0-specific handshaking method |
| 18:34:27 | TheSeven | i.e. automatically expect acknowledgements etc. |
| 18:35:07 | | Quit lebellium| (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 18:35:22 | TheSeven | they could probably be merged with the normal ones, with maybe an additional argument |
| 18:35:37 | pamaury | yep, that's the major difference |
| 18:36:41 | pamaury | ok let's go, I'll try to port it and test it on the clip+, the other tricky usb device ^^ |
| 18:42:27 | pamaury | hum, TheSeven do you mind if I rockboxize your driver, ie replace some define/enum by existing rockbox types ? |
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| 18:44:11 | TheSeven | sure, go ahead |
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| 18:54:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:02:19 | kugel | JdGordon: is your last commit a 3.13.1 canditate? |
| 19:04:21 | TheSeven | is that the usual misbehavior? http://pastie.org/7153222 |
| 19:11:04 | pamaury | TheSeven: yes afaik |
| 19:11:24 | | Join stoffel [0] (~quassel@pD9E41244.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:11:35 | pamaury | a ums transfer fails, host reset the device and usually you die afterwards |
| 19:11:53 | pamaury | we have a similar bug on rk27xx usb too |
| 19:12:05 | pamaury | though the bugs on nano2g and clip+ are not limited to this |
| 19:13:03 | | Quit amithkk (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) |
| 19:15:26 | pamaury | TheSeven: does the driver really need the instance and for what ? |
| 19:16:04 | TheSeven | in the device that I wrote it for I have two USB interfaces to deal with |
| 19:16:24 | | Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 19:16:32 | pamaury | ok, so I can safely remove it in our case |
| 19:16:37 | TheSeven | probably |
| 19:18:11 | TheSeven | things that you might need to adjust to make it work on a different device: phy configuration (GUSBCFG register: phy type, turnaround time, ...) and FIFO sizes/allocation |
| 19:19:10 | TheSeven | the values that the driver currently uses are correct for the nano2g (16bit phy, turnaround=5, 1024 words fifo size) |
| 19:19:12 | pamaury | yeah, iirc the default fifo config on clip+ was weird/incorrect and turnaround time well I don't know |
| 19:20:22 | TheSeven | don't trust what those information registers say about fifo sizes |
| 19:20:34 | TheSeven | I've seen at least one case where that was totally wrong |
| 19:20:54 | TheSeven | (and another case where the manual was wrong but the registers were right) |
| 19:20:58 | TheSeven | both on the same SoC |
| 19:24:28 | pamaury | ok |
| 19:27:16 | | Quit lebellium_gs2 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 19:45:39 | pamaury | TheSeven: where is the config used by the ipodnano2g ? I can't find it anywhere in your code |
| 19:45:53 | pamaury | config=synopsysotg config |
| 19:47:12 | TheSeven | what kind of config? |
| 19:47:45 | pamaury | ah found, in a header ! |
| 19:48:02 | | Join lebellium_gs2 [0] (~lebellium@80.215.9.127) |
| 19:48:17 | TheSeven | yeah, that's a bit of a hack to keep it generic :) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:29 | | Quit stoffel (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) |
| 20:13:38 | gevaerts | Hmmm, we seem to have some code that assumes HAVE_LCD_BITMAP if we have SWCODEC |
| 20:16:45 | gevaerts | Or rather, that working with bitmaps implies having an lcd :) |
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| 20:17:57 | | Quit froggyman (Changing host) |
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| 20:19:23 | | Quit krabador (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 20:38:32 | | Quit akaWolf (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) |
| 20:45:47 | | Join godzirra [0] (~godzirra@208.110.69.202) |
| 20:46:01 | godzirra | Hey guys. I read that the sandisk clip and clip+ is supported. Is this considered a clip or clip+? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/SanDisk+-+Sansa+Clip+Zip+4+GB+Flash+MP3+Player+-+Red/3029079.p?id=1218373614839&skuId=3029079&st=sansa%20clip+&cp=1&lp=2 |
| 20:47:57 | gevaerts | That's a clip zip |
| 20:48:04 | godzirra | I realize that. |
| 20:48:13 | godzirra | My question was whether rockbox supports it or not. |
| 20:48:31 | gevaerts | It does |
| 20:48:38 | gevaerts | But that wasn't your question ;) |
| 20:48:47 | godzirra | Well, it was my question, but I didn't really voice it very well. ;) |
| 20:49:11 | godzirra | Out of curiousity, does the FM tuner still work in rockbox? |
| 20:49:19 | gevaerts | yes |
| 20:50:01 | godzirra | Last time I had a rockbox enabled device was when the iRiver iH120 was new. I miss it. |
| 20:50:07 | godzirra | Thanks. I'll be picking one up and flashing it today then. :D |
| 20:50:39 | godzirra | Ugh, it says rifght on the webpage clip zip. Sorry. I totally missed that. |
| 20:52:11 | godzirra | Last question.. is there a way to generate smart playlists? That's the only thing I really like about itunes. (literally the only thing) |
| 20:52:36 | godzirra | Or even better, a way to export playlists from itunes?s |
| 20:54:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:54:55 | gevaerts | If itunes can export standard m3u playlists, yes. I have no idea if it can |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:01:54 | | Nick ATA is now known as Guest10755 (568d2a65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.141.42.101) |
| 21:03:21 | Guest10755 | Can anyone help me? I'm trying to install Rockbox on a Sansa Clip V1, the automatic installation completes fine (using m300a.bin from the Sansa website as the original firmware when it asks for it) but when I start the device it just loads the original firmware and not Rockbox. |
| 21:05:46 | | Quit lebellium_gs2 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
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| 21:14:03 | gevaerts | Guest10755: did rockbox utility detect it as a V1? |
| 21:14:29 | Guest10755 | Nope, it crashes when trying to autodetect so I set it manually |
| 21:15:25 | gevaerts | OK, so are you *sure* it's a v1? What you describe could easily happen if you just gave it the wrong firmware |
| 21:15:53 | Guest10755 | yup, I bought it a few months after they were released |
| 21:15:57 | Guest10755 | it's from 2007 or something |
| 21:17:20 | | Join wenceslaus [0] (~wenceslau@74-140-111-61.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:17:33 | * | gevaerts isn't sure then |
| 21:18:01 | Guest10755 | Thanks anyway man :) |
| 21:19:54 | wenceslaus | Hey, I have a Ipod Classic 160GB with emCore+Rockbox that worked great for months, but today I tried charging it and it has become stuck on the USB plugged in screen and doesn't respond to any button presses nor can Windows recognize it when plugged in. Anything I can do or is it bricked? |
| 21:20:20 | TheSeven | it doesn't even respond to the reset button combination? |
| 21:20:22 | TheSeven | (menu+select) |
| 21:20:31 | wenceslaus | No |
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| 21:22:06 | TheSeven | hm, try unplugging it, toggling the log switch back and forth, and pressing and holding menu+select again |
| 21:22:59 | | Quit Guest10755 (Quit: Page closed) |
| 21:23:10 | TheSeven | if that still doesn't help, unplug it and wait for the battery to drain (can take several hours of course) |
| 21:24:01 | wenceslaus | OK, I've tried different button combinations with hold switch on and off. I think just letting it die is my last option. |
| 21:26:17 | TheSeven | locking and unlocking it should reset the clickwheel, which should respond to the reset button combination and kill the power supply, hm. |
| 21:27:22 | * | gevaerts once managed to get his ipod video in a state where it wouldn't respond to the reset combination |
| 21:27:33 | gevaerts | I cheated though |
| 21:27:40 | * | TheSeven personally hasn't managed that yet, but heard reports of it |
| 21:28:14 | gevaerts | TheSeven: set random voltages on various pins of the power controller. Guaranteed to make things unstable :) |
| 21:29:05 | gevaerts | So I know it's *possible* to get it in such a state. That doesn't mean it's likely to happen in normal use though |
| 21:29:12 | gevaerts | And yes, if it |
| 21:29:26 | gevaerts | 's something like that, letting the battery run out will help |
| 21:30:21 | wenceslaus | OK, thanks for the reply. |
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| 22:19:38 | lebellium | FS #12838 fixed. Thank you JdGordon! |
| 22:19:40 | fs-bluebot | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12838 data abort in radio debug screen (bugs, unconfirmed) |
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| 22:42:50 | | Join saratoga [0] (123e0ceb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.18.62.12.235) |
| 22:43:04 | saratoga | pamaury: if you ask funman, maybe he can send you my old Nano2G (i think he still have it anyway) |
| 22:44:44 | saratoga | (I think he still *has* it anyway) |
| 22:48:12 | saratoga | regarding GSOC, I'd love to help people with codec projects, but my responsibilities this year prevent me from actually being in charge of anyone's project |
| 22:48:37 | saratoga | but i could comentor with someone who had a more flexible schedule |
| 22:49:54 | scorche|sh | not near enough people have stepped up for GSoC to have a chance this year... |
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| 23:00 |
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| 23:09:47 | derf | So, https://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/tmp/01.%20Axel%20F.opus seems to crash funman's sansa clip 100% of the time. |
| 23:09:52 | derf | Using the latest git. |
| 23:14:20 | saratoga | does it crash the sim? |
| 23:15:05 | | Quit benedikt93 (Quit: Bye ;)) |
| 23:15:45 | kugel | scorche|sh: what do you mean? |
| 23:17:21 | scorche|sh | kugel: i mean that there has been very little interest in GSoC this year - less than the year we decided to pull out... |
| 23:17:40 | scorche|sh | a couple of people have sent a mail with an idea or 2 |
| 23:17:58 | scorche|sh | very little to no full mentors available |
| 23:18:03 | derf | saratoga: That is a good question. I never got the sim working. |
| 23:18:23 | saratoga | derf: do you have windows? theres prebuilt binaries online |
| 23:18:38 | derf | saratoga: I do not. |
| 23:18:50 | saratoga | ok building on linux is usually pretty easy |
| 23:18:53 | saratoga | FWIW |
| 23:19:15 | kugel | scorche|sh: the mailing list activity this year much bigger this year (but still rather low) |
| 23:19:24 | kugel | last year there were a total of 2 mails |
| 23:19:43 | scorche|sh | kugel: still not near enough to even bother making an effort of applying |
| 23:20:34 | scorche|sh | no work has been done on the ideas list, etc |
| 23:20:40 | kugel | we have enough possible mentors for 2 projects, that seems good enough to me |
| 23:20:51 | kugel | we don't need many projects, even one would be fine IMO |
| 23:22:11 | derf | saratoga: Okay, built... it does not crash. |
| 23:22:24 | scorche|sh | kugel: i am not sure what you are basing this "seems good" and "we dont need many projects" on, but it is not the case at all |
| 23:22:39 | saratoga | derf: huh ok that makes trouble shooting harder |
| 23:23:17 | saratoga | opus uses malloc correct? perhaps the sim has a little bit more memory available ? |
| 23:23:36 | saratoga | i believe there was some weirdness about how memory was allocated on the sim but i forget |
| 23:23:48 | kugel | scorche|sh: you said we don't have enough mentors candidates. but we don't need many if we plan for 1 or 2 projects, do we? |
| 23:24:37 | scorche|sh | kugel: there is no planning for 1 or 2 projects at the org application process |
| 23:24:43 | derf | saratoga: Yes, it does. |
| 23:24:53 | scorche|sh | all orgs submit applications and then they are accepted based off of those |
| 23:25:04 | saratoga | i think if there is interest its worth applying and seeing if we get good students |
| 23:25:18 | kugel | scorche|sh: I understand that |
| 23:25:31 | scorche|sh | kugel: even if we wanted 2 projects, i would want at least 4-5 mentors which we dont have |
| 23:25:46 | kugel | so why do you base "we shouldn't bother applying" on "not enough mentors" |
| 23:25:56 | saratoga | derf: is it worth printf'ing the malloc function to see if we run out of buffer? |
| 23:26:06 | scorche|sh | saratoga: we wont get to the good students part, because we are not near a level where we would be accepted to participate |
| 23:26:31 | scorche|sh | kugel: because willing mentors are a factor in org acceptance |
| 23:26:42 | scorche|sh | we dont have them |
| 23:27:16 | kugel | if we can list at least 3 mentors that seems good enough to attempt an application IMO |
| 23:27:41 | derf | saratoga: codec_malloc(), or one of the libopus functions? |
| 23:27:59 | scorche|sh | kugel: it sint |
| 23:28:11 | saratoga | derf: I would just hook into whatever the opus wrapper is and check to see if the allocated memory gets to |
| 23:28:16 | scorche|sh | kugel: as i said, i am not sure where you are getting this "seems good enough" from |
| 23:28:25 | saratoga | i've found all sorts of codec bugs that way over the years |
| 23:28:43 | saratoga | people come up with weird bitstreams that manage to do huge mallocs with surprising frequency |
| 23:28:58 | saratoga | particularly in ogg |
| 23:29:27 | kugel | scorche|sh: I don't have a basis other than that I consider it good |
| 23:29:40 | saratoga | so we'd need a half dozen mentors? |
| 23:29:56 | kugel | I've seen a project with 2 possible mentors being accepted and assigned a single student slot |
| 23:30:02 | kugel | if that's any basis |
| 23:30:18 | gevaerts | How many serious mentors do we have right now? |
| 23:30:55 | saratoga | yeah can we just ask for one slot? |
| 23:31:01 | kugel | a lot of projects don't even have that many regular contributors, let alone mentors |
| 23:31:08 | scorche|sh | saratoga: it doesnt work like that... |
| 23:31:27 | derf | saratoga: Okay, that doesn't fail in the simulator. |
| 23:31:41 | kugel | I don't see why we need 5+ mentors to even try applying |
| 23:31:47 | derf | (just the libopus allocs, not the ogg ones) |
| 23:31:52 | saratoga | how much memory does it end up allocating? |
| 23:32:03 | scorche|sh | kugel: i have been to many mentor summits, have been the admin of multiple orgs, and have been very active in #gsoc for quite a few years - i think i have a good feeling of how likely an app is to be accepted...i know the right things to say and everything, but a good bit of work needs to be done to the ideas page and we need more mentors |
| 23:32:09 | | Quit Strife89 (Quit: Vamoose.) |
| 23:32:27 | kugel | gevaerts: 2 have said they would mentor |
| 23:32:30 | scorche|sh | google does look at activity too - when we had many more mentors and more interest, we almost didnt get accepted |
| 23:32:31 | derf | Oh, the ogg functions already print their allocations. |
| 23:33:21 | scorche|sh | google does accept smaller orgs with a bit of history for 1-2 slots, but our history is actualyl working against us here |
| 23:33:47 | | Quit kevku (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) |
| 23:33:53 | kugel | well, our org is in fact getting smaller |
| 23:34:00 | scorche|sh | our past performance means we would need to demonstrate an above-average dedication to be considered |
| 23:34:07 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: whatever the chances of getting accepted, do you think applying would hurt in the long term? |
| 23:35:18 | kugel | if our higher activity times are the benchmark then we don't even need to think about gsoc anymore. we're only getting less active with less contributors |
| 23:35:29 | derf | Hrm, it is not actually picking up my definitions. |
| 23:36:02 | kugel | also, yea, I'm not sure applying would hurt even if we have only a little chance of being accepted (?) |
| 23:36:54 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: i think making a half-hearted effort (which it seems we would be making judging from recent activity) would, yes - as i said earlier, our history is working against us - we havent honestly performed well in the past and to make another half-hearted effort would only take us down more in their eyes |
| 23:37:09 | scorche|sh | sure, i guess it wouldnt hurt in the context of us not ever doing GSoC again though |
| 23:37:31 | saratoga | derf: I have to step out, but i would check if the malloc buffer gets relatively low, as that might overflow on target and cause unpredictable crashes |
| 23:37:56 | | Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:38:07 | saratoga | another possibility is that some of the ARM optimization breaks things, but thats probably less likely since we would have noticed bad ASM by now i think |
| 23:38:16 | scorche|sh | people suggesting un-fleshed-out ideas on the mailing list is not enough though - as i said in previous emails, a big effort needs to go on to refurbish and flesh out our ideas list |
| 23:38:24 | derf | saratoga: Yeah, mallocs seem most likely. |
| 23:38:28 | saratoga | could be some kind of memory corruption though that only occurs on some memory layouts |
| 23:38:34 | derf | But as I said, it's not using any of these routines. |
| 23:38:42 | saratoga | i've seen that in our codecs before |
| 23:38:44 | saratoga | ok |
| 23:38:51 | derf | I.e., the opus_alloc in opus_config.h |
| 23:38:52 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: exactly. Now I *don't* think applying with only two mentors is a good idea, but I also don't think we need to pretend we can realistically apply as a large organisation |
| 23:39:05 | derf | Nor the default opus_alloc in os_support.h |
| 23:39:05 | kugel | scorche|sh: we haven't performed well? I would say our success rate is pretty solid (13/19), isnt it? |
| 23:39:12 | gevaerts | I'd say four mentors is a good minimum |
| 23:39:19 | saratoga | derf: i'm not sure how its defined actually |
| 23:39:45 | derf | Also fun is that changing any of these files does not cause make to think anything needs to be rebuilt. |
| 23:40:22 | gevaerts | I'm willing to mentor any project in areas I know a bit about, but I don't think I'm the best mentor ever, and I honestly don't have the motivation to work on the ideas list and the application |
| 23:40:27 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: but thats the thing - you arent selecting to be large or small - Google would likely look at us and see that we were larger, but are fading off - newer, smaller orgs would be at a much bigger advantage than us - hence my talking about an above-average effort |
| 23:40:55 | derf | Hrm, no, #error confirms it is compiling this file... it just never calls opus_alloc(). |
| 23:41:02 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: i dont think anyone does, as i have asked for 2+ years to have that done and the most anyone does is suggest ideas on the ML that can be added |
| 23:41:09 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: yes. If I were them, I'd look for new and promising organisations, but then I'm not them :) |
| 23:41:19 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: the last great push was when you and i did it for the last time we participated |
| 23:41:19 | saratoga | derf: tried grep? |
| 23:41:31 | saratoga | i don't have a linux machine handy |
| 23:41:33 | scorche|sh | and we didnt even do near what we wished to do |
| 23:42:13 | kugel | in what way does the ideas list need work? just _more_ ideas or something else?? |
| 23:42:58 | gevaerts | kugel: I'd say that first of all ideas without a matching mentor should be removed |
| 23:43:28 | scorche|sh | kugel: http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2012-03/0023.shtml |
| 23:44:04 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: what I'm really getting at is that *if* some people are willing to spend the next 24 hours to get a decent albeit small proposal on time, I think we should let them get on with it |
| 23:44:40 | kugel | heh, I have removed all mentors because they need to confirm themselve this year |
| 23:45:21 | gevaerts | kugel: I'm guessing you started from the 2011 page? |
| 23:45:23 | kugel | I understand that if we need at least one mentor listed for each (and other work) on the ideas list it's probably too late now |
| 23:45:32 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: sure, but i am also saying that i just ahvent seen a motivation within the community for GSoC |
| 23:45:35 | kugel | gevaerts: sure, that's how we do it :p |
| 23:45:49 | | Join krabador_ [0] (~krabador@95.237.42.142) |
| 23:46:01 | | Quit krabador_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 23:46:09 | scorche|sh | the only people who have really said much in IRC is kugel and saratoga and if i am remembering right, both have said that they would not be willing to be a full-time mentor |
| 23:46:49 | gevaerts | kugel: having each possible mentor go over the list probably isn't realistic, no, but if you know the candidate mentors, you know the project well enough to match them yourself :) |
| 23:46:51 | scorche|sh | pamaury said he could mentor |
| 23:47:13 | kugel | wodz and pamaury said they would do it on the ml |
| 23:47:57 | gevaerts | kugel: we also *really* need to make sure obsolete ideas are removed. We forgot a few of those last time IIRC, and they're probably still there |
| 23:48:04 | | Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) |
| 23:48:05 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: i pretty much echo your thoughts on the ML... |
| 23:48:32 | gevaerts | hmmm |
| 23:48:36 | | Quit kaputnik_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) |
| 23:48:55 | | Quit bertrik (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 23:48:57 | gevaerts | scorche|sh: do you remember if it's possible to start applying in melange and then withdraw before the deadline? |
| 23:49:26 | scorche|sh | gevaerts: if i recall correctly, you have to submit the actual application |
| 23:49:33 | gevaerts | If so, I'd say kugel should just get on with it :) |
| 23:49:53 | gevaerts | and then tomorrow we make the final decision |
| 23:50:21 | scorche|sh | if he can drum up the support and get things done, i will be very excited =) |
| 23:50:56 | scorche|sh | i just havent seen anything yet to get excited about and i dont feel like going over our application without the support of quite a few members of the group |
| 23:51:06 | | Join bertrik [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) |
| 23:51:12 | gevaerts | So let's stop being negative. Only positive talk and silence allowed for the next 18 hours :) |
| 23:51:27 | scorche|sh | ok =) |
| 23:52:05 | gevaerts | So who's org admin this year? |
| 23:52:40 | scorche|sh | i dont mind being it again, but i have to see the group behind it first ;) |
| 23:55:24 | | Join kaputnik_ [0] (~kaputnik@p5DD9DCE8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:56:24 | kugel | I'm off to bed |
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