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#rockbox log for 2013-03-29

00:00:02derfglobal_stack 100000 = 0x6fb4a0
00:04:17 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.
00:04:32derfstack used: 10796
00:04:43derfAppears to be the actual peak usage for this file.
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00:17:22pamauryscorche|sh: I'm ready to mentor, I confident i'll have some time for it, I didn't developed my projects on the ML but we talked about it on IRC and I have a pretty clear idea about the usb audio/mtp projects.
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00:54:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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00:57:14takeyourhatoffI have a clip + with rockbox. When I add albums to my play queue using the context menu, it adds the tracks alphabetically rather than in track number order, how can I fix this?
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01:25:06godzirraSo I run the rockbox utility, and its asking me for the drive letter of my sansa.
01:25:17godzirraBut it doesn't have a drive letter, its showing up as a media device? Am I missing something?
01:25:40godzirraAlso, if I hit autodetect, it crashes.
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04:02:55Triffid_Huntergodzirra: may need to put your sansa into usb disk mode instead of the other one
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06:36:17godzirraTriffid_Hunter: Let me figure out how to do that. Thanks.
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06:41:02godzirraTriffid_Hunter: Now it tells me my mount point is wrong, evne though mountpoint says "D:\(SANSA CLIPZ)"
06:41:12godzirraoh crud. It disconnected.
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06:52:12godzirraI've got it now. Thanks for the advice.
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06:57:04Triffid_Huntergodzirra: yw, good luck :)
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07:18:08godzirraI plug in usb and it doesn't connect to my PC
07:18:15godzirrathen when I unplug, I get an illegal instruction error
07:18:18godzirraand have to hard power off.
07:18:31godzirraworked that time.
07:18:32godzirrathat was odd.
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07:20:33godzirraTriffid_Hunter: Other than the .rockbox directory, does directory structure matter?
07:20:43godzirraFOr some reason it put my stuff in ##MUSIC#
07:21:04Triffid_HunterI nuked ##MUSIC# and made Music instead
07:22:37godzirraNow if I could just figure out a good way to export playlists out of itunes, or to write my itunes ratings to the actual mp3.
07:22:41godzirraso I don't lose all my ratings.
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11:15:45kugelpamaury: ping
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11:22:08takeyourhatoffI have a clip + with rockbox. When I add albums to my play queue using the context menu, it adds the tracks alphabetically rather than in track number order, how can I fix this?
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11:31:46kugelpamaury: could you please add your gsoc project idea(s) and yourself as a mentor to ?
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11:47:22[7]pamaury: FYI, I found a little bug in the IN non-DMA case
11:47:56[7]the line that checks for whether the TX fifo empty IRQ on the endpoint should be masked should check for xfersize, not pktcnt
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13:53:42pamaurykugel: pong
13:53:59pamaurykugel: ok i'll do that
13:56:02pamaurydo we have mentors for all those projects on the wiki page ?
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13:58:32desowin_pamaury: it was you who suggested the usb soundcard idea on the mailing list? I have just written basic information about that in the wiki, if you could have a look that would be great
13:59:05gevaertsI doubt it. We know the candidate mentors, and we more or less know who's good at what, so it should be possible to figure this out
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14:03:06pamauryi'll usb mtp also if nobody objects
14:05:41pamaury*i'll add
14:06:01*gevaerts nods
14:06:07pamaurykugel: gevaerts: should I add myself as mentor for other projects I can mentor ?
14:06:21gevaertsIt can't hurt, anyway
14:06:25gevaertsSo I'd say yes
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14:22:00pamauryI've completed the usb audio project, now the MTP one...
14:38:38kugelscorche|sh: I created a application draft, can you have a look over it?
14:38:43kugelor anyone else
14:39:10kugelI only added a small section about gsoc 2011 compared to the 2011 application
14:39:39kugelI wonder if we should mention that our org shouldn't be considered as large anymore
14:44:12gevaertskugel: I propose that if scorche|sh doesn't wake up at least two hours before the deadline (19:00 UTC, or 20:00 for us), one of us gets to be admin
14:44:22gevaertsWe can always rearracnge things later if needed
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14:46:54kugelgevaerts: okay
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15:12:12pamauryI've written the usb mtp projects. Can people read the usb audio and usb mtp projects and tell me if they feel the description is sufficient
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15:45:31CXIVHow change max volume limit on rockbox?
15:45:42CXIVBecause I want to set volume for kids
15:45:48CXIVI mean , max volume.
15:46:15gevaertsYou can set the EQ precut
15:46:37CXIVNo , they are smart enough to change that
15:46:46CXIVIs there any CFG I can edit?
15:48:58CXIVI found something like this
15:50:22pamauryas far as I know we don't have such a setting and if we did it would be in the settings menu, maybe someone can confirm
15:53:31CXIVToo bad
15:53:40gevaertsNo. EQ precut is the setting to use for this
15:54:15CXIVI want to set this in CFG file :)
15:54:18gevaertsAnd yes, we do object to settings that don't appear in the menu :)
15:57:20CXIVSo any other ideas?
15:58:13pamauryappart from a custom build I don't see any way to achieve that, why do you want to achieve that in the first place and why do you think your kids would change the eq precut ?
15:59:09CXIVBecause they like to listen music very loud
15:59:34CXIVI don't want to limit it much
15:59:53CXIVBut you see , -10 db on rockbox is VERY loud
16:00:02gevaertsDepends on the audio files too
16:00:25CXIVI set up replaygain.
16:00:27gevaertsAlso the headphones and the player, of course
16:00:35CXIVSo -25 db will be enough
16:01:22CXIVIt's sansa zip
16:01:43copperwith replaygain on, and sensitive IEMs, I set the volume at -9 dB
16:01:46CXIVI know that there is sort of limit option in official firmware
16:02:04copper(with EQ on too, which reduces the level further by about 6 dB)
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16:02:22copperCXIV: yeah but I don't think it's password protected
16:02:30gevaertsI'd say different headphones are the *best* solution (no software workaround then!), but if not, and you *don't* want to use a visible setting, a custom build is your only real option
16:02:53copperCXIV: give them some AKGs, those are less sensitive than most headphones
16:03:05copperabout 10 dB less sensitive
16:03:41gevaertsOf course, you could also set it *louder* for a while, and then their own natural volume limiter will kick in :)
16:04:19CXIVBetter not :)
16:04:35CXIVThanks for help anyway :)
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16:28:32scorchekugel: gevaerts: i am heading to work soon - while there, i will get some work things done and then work on the org app - i thought about things last night, and there are a few places where i might be able to improve our chances for success
16:30:07copperwhat's the org app?
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16:35:12desowin_copper: summer of code organization application
16:35:27copperach so
16:36:15copperHow come the Rockbox simulator is way faster than the Android simulator? I guess it doesn't try to emulate actual ARM code?
16:36:41gevaertsIt's a not an emulator :)
16:36:47desowin_simulator is, as it says, is simulator
16:40:04copperI see
16:41:17copperthe Android emulator is hopelessly slow here, and Asus disabled the virtual machine CPU feature on my laptop (whatever it's called)
16:41:26copperVT something
16:41:43gevaertsThat aside though, I strongly suspect a rockbox emulator would still *feel* faster than an android emulator; Our UI was designed for a 12MHz SH CPU
16:45:58copperthe Android emulator is okay-ish with low res devices
16:54:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:55:17copperhmm, 4.2.2 is faster
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17:05:44coppera far cry from last time I tried (a couple years ago)
17:05:54copperhaving a better CPU helps, too
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17:28:51*scorche|sh registers to be an admin and will then look at making more changes to the org app
17:29:12scorche|shkugel: did you use the most recent org app, or lastlast year's?
17:32:03scorche|shi am assuming the latter...
17:33:31kugelscorche|sh: 2011
17:33:44kugelthats the most recent one
17:33:50scorche|shfor us...
17:33:52scorche|shyeah - i am re-doing the application
17:34:24kugelI copied the wiki page, I didn't actually visit the application page yet
17:34:33*scorche|sh nods
17:34:40scorche|shthe org app has changed in a number of ways
17:36:44scorche|shoh, look - i just got a meeting request for an hour from now
17:36:48*scorche|sh gets busy
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18:00:17kugelShould I add a "android native ui" project? the problem is that our code base is badly prepared for such a project
18:01:58kugelI think we all want that, but nobody is really clear about how much work that is and to what degree existing code can be re-used or refactored
18:04:17scorche|shup to you =)
18:05:49kugelI think we need some g)
18:06:31kugelI think we need some prerequisite work, such as playback engine separation
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18:17:39scorche|shkugel: gevaerts: big edit up for review...
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18:18:22gevaertskugel: I want playback engine separation for non-android purposes, actually :)
18:23:48scorche|shgevaerts: kugel: please review my changes =)
18:24:01gevaertsReading now :)
18:26:42gevaertsscorche|sh: there are still some "we hope to ..." bits in the descriptions of older years
18:27:00gevaerts"hope to see it included in ffmpeg" for a 2007 project may not be that wonderful :)
18:28:11gevaertsSimilar for USB "which has now been enabled in SVN for all builds"
18:28:15scorche|shfeel free to change it =)
18:28:21scorche|shi didnt focus too much on that
18:29:15gevaertskugel: the bit about previous results. It looks like they were mostly added to over the years, which means older entries are now a bit weird sometimes
18:29:32scorche|shthat can certainly use some cleanup
18:30:21kugeloh the wiki didnt make a new revision
18:30:38*gevaerts is editing now
18:30:46scorche|shkugel: hrm?
18:31:17gevaertsHas saratoga been a mentor?
18:31:27*gevaerts can't remember, but he thinks so...
18:32:25scorche|shgevaerts: yes - in 2011
18:32:52gevaertsStudents becoming mentors are worth pointing out I think :)
18:34:34gevaertsscorche|sh, kugel: done
18:34:59gevaertsApart from that, I didn't spot anything obvious
18:35:04kugelscorche|sh: I had looked at r2 earlier with less changes
18:35:36gevaertsDo we have mentors for codec work?
18:35:45kugelI don't think so
18:36:26kugelcould ask stripwax or n1s, but neither are particularly active these days (altough stripwax replied on a gerrit ticket recently)
18:38:01scorche|shkugel: yeah - it folded them in since there wasnt another edit in between
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18:38:43scorche|shit would be nice to get more mentors on there, yeah
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18:39:35gevaertskugel: I'd say there is a strong overlap between "Improved codec and playback module separation" and "Rockbox Playback Test Driver"
18:40:30gevaertsI'd drop "Audio codec optimisation" and "Improved video playback" due to no available mentors
18:41:05gevaertsMultiple/Relocatable Plugins, Clean up the radio code, ARM Emulator, and Apple/Sandisk/etc Various Docks, Remotes, Accessories may need some thinking
18:41:08derfgevaerts: I'm happy to mentor folks for any of the Xiph codecs (particularly Opus).
18:41:09kugelgevaerts: yea, there is some overlap
18:41:17kugelbut they're not the same :)
18:41:27derfThough I probably shouldn't be the only mentor.
18:41:51scorche|shno one should be an only mentor ;)
18:42:19gevaertsOK, so I'll leave opus in for now :)
18:42:42kugelgevaerts: relocatable should probably be dropped, 90% of it is on gerrit
18:43:08gevaertsYes. I think it mainly needs finishing, new toolchains for some CPUs, and someone to decide :)
18:45:05gevaertsDo we still care about the CD emulation?
18:45:11gevaertsWell, did we ever, really? :)
18:45:33kugelI think it's a nice project regardless
18:46:19kugelthe TTS one should be cleared up w.r.t. to the licensing problem
18:46:22gevaertsOK, so I've removed the things we agreed on, and added Opus, although that one needs some detail
18:46:53kugelalso can't memory fragmentation due to small allocs be solved, e.g. with some buddy-allocator-kind of thing?
18:47:40*gevaerts doesn't know
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18:48:07gevaertsI'd say the safe approach would be espeak
18:48:08kugelthe red text seems discouraging (regardless of the engine) for the proposal, but it's probably one of the projects we want most
18:49:02kugellooks like "you dont actually want this project!"
18:49:08gevaertsA bit, yes
18:49:46*kugel goes to eat
18:49:51gevaertsIIRC the radio one was always a bit doubtful. I vote we drop it
18:50:00gevaertskugel: we have one hour to finish this :)
18:50:26gevaertsI'm also unsure about mentors for the ARM emulator and the docks
18:50:35scorche|shgevaerts: kugel: which one of you will be backup admin for now? (I can always make Zagor one later
18:50:55gevaertsFeel free to add me
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18:51:55gevaertsCan someone provide a few lines about Opus optimisation? derf?
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18:52:51scorche|shi am going to submit the application now - I can always edit it before the deadline
18:54:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:56:40scorche|shgevaerts: you need to register a profile at
18:57:27gevaertsscorche|sh: done
18:57:36*gevaerts likes pre-filled forms :)
18:58:21scorche|sh"Data saved successfully."
18:58:51derfgevaerts: I am once again failing to register on the wiki.
19:00:20gevaertsderf: maybe it's best if we just handle things here for now. I can do the actual editing
19:00:24gevaertsOne hour to go :)
19:00:26gevaertsderf: I have
19:00:29gevaerts"Rockbox has had support for the new Opus codec in development builds since the official release of the Opus codec by, and in stable releases since 3.13, but although some optimisation work has been done, more work is needed to make Opus support usable on slower devices" now
19:01:33gevaertsThat might be enough for now
19:06:27gevaertskugel, desowin_: can you add your name to various projects you're willing to mentor?
19:08:13gevaertsderf: what will your wiki name be as soon as you do manage to register?
19:10:32derfgevaerts: TimTerriberry
19:11:32gevaertsThanks! I'll add you as a candidate mentor then :)
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19:13:22gevaertsOk, done
19:13:24derfgevaerts: Okay, it's stopped accusing me of cross-site scripting attacks.
19:13:34derfCan you add me to the WikiUsersGroup?
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19:49:04gevaertskugel, desowin_: ping
19:51:53kugelgevaerts: done
19:52:33gevaertsShall we remove the dock/remote one?
19:52:54kugeli guess if we have no mentors
19:54:44*gevaerts nods
19:54:51gevaertsI'll remove it. We can always add it back later
19:55:37gevaertsok, all set I think :)
19:55:42scorche|shdont want to remove too many things..
19:55:59gevaertsscorche|sh: we have ten ideas now
19:56:43gevaertsand I'm confident we can find a decent mentor for all of those
20:05:21kugelgevaerts: heh, you subscribed as potential mentor for all projects but the USB ones (USB being one of your expert fields)?
20:07:11scorche|shwell, we are officially applied now...
20:07:48kugelscorche|sh: \o/
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20:11:48kugelcool that we managed it
20:12:12scorche|shwell, we havent yet...lets see what happens with the acceptance process
20:12:30kugelmanaged to apply, I mean. We had to rush a bit :)
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20:35:21gevaertskugel: those are clearly pamaury's :)
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21:11:08wodzI can comment a bit about TTS engines. espeak port is pretty easy. flite is also possible but with substantially more effort.
21:11:47wodzflite mem demand is quite high (in rockbox context) so it could run only on highmem targets
21:14:04wodzStatement about espeak license issue being resolved is not quite true. We agreed that GPLv3 plugins are ok if there will be clear mechanism to make pure v2+ build (aka configure option to disable v3 plugins). We never agreed to include v3 code in core.
21:14:37gevaertsI had a different understanding :)
21:14:49gevaertsYou have to be able to build without it, yes
21:14:58gevaertsBut that should be straightforward
21:16:26gevaertsThe thing is that the v2+/v3 distinction is really only important if people exercise their right to get the source, in which case you get v3 source if at least one line of code the binary was built from is v3. If you just download the source without formally asking for it, you get whatever gpl version each file is
21:16:34gevaertsSo you'd get mostly v2+
21:31:40kugelwodz: I thought the mem demand is managebale from the total mem usage pov, but the main problem is htat small allocations are all over hte place
21:32:12gevaertsIt's hard to say, really
21:32:28gevaertsWe never saw much code, and he disappeared without really telling us much IIRC
21:33:03wodzI did some work with flite and I am quite confident that it will work on some of our targets.
21:33:33gevaertsAnyway, the most important project is the UI/playback split :)
21:34:45wodzThe main obstacle I hit was the size of const resources. In flite this are part of binary not the separate, loaded at runtime resources. Plugin buf is simply too small to handle this.
21:35:06wodzAh, and I didn't know about overlays this days
21:37:01kugelis flite itself large?
21:37:48kugelthere was no mention about this in the student's reports
21:38:31kugeloh, I'm wrong.
21:39:10kugelhe mentioned a multi-megabyte binary
21:39:34wodzIt is. But as I said this is due the way it handles phonomes data. The data are provided as const arrays not as loadable modules.
21:39:47wodzI thing the binary is like 3-4MB
21:40:18wodzIt can be changed but this needs quite some work
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22:00:48amayerim not sure if it matters much but i am working on a lot of themesite changes(functionality more then design). i saw it was mentioned on the GSoC page.
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23:41:20MarcAndersenWhy are the windows simulators for 3.13 not up on yet?
23:44:42rasherMarcAndersen: forgot about it, I'm building them now
23:45:10MarcAndersenRasher: Ok. Are you from denmark like me?
23:46:02rasherI am
23:46:49gevaertshmm, that reminds me
23:46:56MarcAndersenOk, nice, and thanks for the simulators, I love them
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