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#rockbox log for 2013-04-28

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15:51:57bertrik_anyone here with an AMSv2 player and a class 10 sdhc microsd card?
15:52:29bertrik_there's been reports that some class 10 microsd don't work on the clip zip
15:52:54bertrik_I'm not convinced yet if "class 10" has anything to do with it though
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16:15:31lebelliumI have a clip Zip with Samsung 32GB class 10 card
16:15:44lebelliumand it works
16:20:37funmanbertrik: there's been many reports of microsd cards not working on AMS(v*), class 10 or not
16:21:41funmanIMHO the card class has as much importance as the color of the packaging in which the card came ..
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16:39:19bertrikfunman: agreed, although class 10 indicates that at least it's not an ancient card
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17:08:33soapThough (was it CHDK?) I've seen benchmarks showing severe compromises are made sometimes to achieve class rating. As in the random write speed may be an order of magnitude (or more!) slower.
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18:12:35*[Saint] grumbles
18:13:22[Saint]Why....why oh the skin engine as far as a user is concerned totally unaware of the device resolution?
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18:27:04[Saint]things would be SOOOOOOO much easier for me if I could query the UI/child viewport dimensions...
18:27:38[Saint]Assuming I could, we'd need three cabbies for all of our targets.
18:27:59[Saint](and each theme would be absurdly complicated, but...hey)
18:28:22gevaertsI'm not sure that would be a good trade-off
18:28:43gevaertsI mean, people will see cabbie first, and attempting to change it a bit is a natural first thing to do
18:30:09[Saint]Yes, this is true. It could be commented sufficiently. I just severely dislike umpteen dozen basically identical cabbies all with messed up color values and slightly different conventions and positionings.
18:31:24gevaertsNow if you could use the C preprocessor to generate cabbies for all players from one source, I'd be all for it
18:31:52[Saint]Knowing the resolution would simply be good for knowing what bitmaps to preload. Alignment could /almost/ handle itself.
18:32:26[Saint]Well, you could use negative values to align /most/ things. Meaning less complication.
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19:40:52diusdfhello, so it has become time for me to buy a new mp3-player and I have read that sansa clip+ is possible to be rockboxed
19:41:16diusdfI read from some thread that the 8GB version might have some problems with big SD cards but do you think that is still the case?
19:41:43diusdffor example would it be possible for me to acquire a 32gb sd card and use it fine with 8gb sansa clip+ with rockbox firmware?
19:46:34diusdfwonder if the cheapest place to get it is amazon
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19:58:23bertrikI ordered another sansa clip zip for myself, my old one has a problem in the headphone connector. Perhaps I can send this old one to another developer?
19:59:35diusdfaint there howto pages in the net how to fix it like really easily, did it break easily?
19:59:43diusdfwould be good to know for the futures sake
20:00:59bertrikI think it broke at some point when falling off my desk, still attached to the headphones
20:01:30bertrikProbably would be easy to fix if you have the tools to open it without damaging it
20:01:44bluebrother^so ... what's different between loading Rockbox and rolo-ing it?
20:01:58gevaertsbluebrother^: hardware initialisation, presumably
20:02:09bluebrother^FS #12857 appears only when starting Rockbox, not when rolo-ing it.
20:02:10fs-bluebot Data abort error on iPod Mini 2G (bugs, unconfirmed)
20:03:07bertrikrolo-ing skips the bootloader, but the bootloader should do the same initialisation as the main image
20:04:40*[Saint] hands bertik a guitar pick and a 00 phillips driver
20:04:48bluebrother^ points to disk_partinfo
20:06:03bluebrother^hmm. requires me to install additional Perl modules :/
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20:07:20[Saint]They're called oysters. ;)
20:08:48bluebrother^hmm. disk_partinfo() only returns a pointer to a local array element :o
20:09:56bluebrother^but according to the data abort it's the problem?
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20:13:21bluebrother^now if I could read that assembler variant ...
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20:36:31bluebrother^hmm. The final link seems to use −−gc-sections after that change
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21:08:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:09:54fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 850491a, 214 builds, 39 clients.
21:09:59bluebrother^now it gets interesting ...
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21:12:17*bluebrother^ crosses fingers
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21:16:38fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 404 seconds.
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21:17:34bluebrother^hmm. At least no reds.
21:18:35bluebrother^but now the binaries are notably bigger than before.
21:19:00bluebrother^guess I have to check all linker options :(
21:21:43*bluebrother^ summons jhMikeS
21:22:12[Saint]Whoah....nice deltas :-S
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21:23:30bluebrother^but at least it doesn't crash the mini2g directly on startup anymore
21:25:02[Saint]True - but at the cost of ~2000b deltas, is it worth it?
21:25:10bluebrother^yes :)
21:25:14 Quit kaputnik__ (Read error: No route to host)
21:25:15bluebrother^a crashing player is useless
21:26:00bluebrother^so for me two questions remain: (1) why has -Wl,−−gc-sections been added for all builds?, (2) what is the root cause for the problem we've been seeing?
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21:26:58bluebrother^I'm suspecting gcc to only drop objects that aren't used during linking. Since libfixedpoint.a includes only a single object it will include all functions since at least one is used.
21:27:06bluebrother^and thus causing the size delta
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21:29:32bluebrother^we could of course put each function into a separate file, thus separate object. But that's kinda ugly ...
21:29:39bluebrother^and merely a workaround
21:30:17pamauryaren't we using -ffunction-section for that ?
21:30:51pamauryso that each function get its own section and the linker is hopefully smart enough to detect groups of sections which are unused ?
21:31:02bluebrother^I think we do
21:31:48bluebrother^otoh, shouldn't we be able to use −−gc-sections in general?
21:33:20bluebrother^hmm, there was some talk about that on the ml
21:33:21pamauryyes, I don't really understand why using −−gc-sections produces a faulty binary
21:35:29bluebrother^ok, so it seems we're at the point described here:
21:36:05bluebrother^and following the answer produces a broken binary, at least for mini2g
21:38:47pamaurymaybe that is a compiler/linker bug
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21:42:43bluebrother^not sure
21:42:47bluebrother^"First of all, we need the -Wl,−−gc-sections option for the linker, but make sure this is not a safe flag to pass globally, so you should never put it in your LDFLAGS in make.conf."
21:43:29pamaurythe only thing we can go bad with −−gc-section is when you have code in sections which are not "connected" to main, this happen with vector table for example or assembly code if the assembler doesn't track code
21:44:53*bluebrother^ rebuilds once more
21:46:24bluebrother^/usr/lib64/gcc/arm-elf-eabi/4.4.4/../../../../arm-elf-eabi/bin/ld: Removing unused section '.text.data_abort_handler' in file '/home/dom/projects/rockbox-gerrit/build-ipodmini2g/lib/libunwarminder.a(safe_read.o)'
21:46:42bluebrother^is this safe?
21:47:10pamaurywell, not really ^^
21:47:41bluebrother^and safe_read.S is ... an assembler file
21:48:18bluebrother^hmm. Why are you using separate sections for the functions in that file?
21:48:28pamauryactually the problem here is different: data_abort_handler is called from crt0.S usually
21:49:16bluebrother^can it be called in normal operating mode?
21:49:26bluebrother^or is that only called in error situations?
21:49:50pamauryso I think the problem is that the linker doesn't see that crt0.S calls this functions, or that it thinks the crt0.S function which calls it is not used, which can happen if it called from .vectors and .vectors is not KEEP() in linker file. But anyway this is only called on data abort and backtrace
21:50:24pamaurylet me check ipodmini2g's crt0.S
21:52:24bluebrother^changing the .section directives in safe_read.S to make the linker not drop that anymore still produces a binary that doesn't work
21:52:55pamaurythat's expected
21:53:03bluebrother^too bad :)
21:53:12pamauryI suspect the problem is more about other handlers, like irq
21:53:39bluebrother^so you think the linker drops other stuff from crt0.S?
21:54:01pamauryif it drops data_abort_handler, I don't see why it wouldn't drop other things :-/
21:54:27*bluebrother^ wonders if it would be a good way to simply not use −−gc-functions and simply put each function in fixedpoint.c into a separate file
21:54:33pamauryexcept if this target doesn't use the backtracer of course
21:54:36bluebrother^kinda ugly :/
21:55:09pamauryI think i'll need to build the ipodmini2g myself to see
21:55:37bluebrother^that's what the linker reports as getting removed
21:58:53pamaurynothing suspicous I would say
21:59:08pamaurydoes the crash address make any sense ?
22:10:15gevaertsI'm fairly sure I saw some deltas when the original patch went in, but I can't remember the details. I wouldn't be surprised if these deltas just reverse that
22:11:16gevaertsRight, no
22:11:32*gevaerts notices that the original is recent enough to still be in the table
22:11:43gevaertsWell, not entirely, anyway
22:12:01bluebrother^gevaerts: I had the same hope at first :)
22:12:31bluebrother^but right now I think it's safe to say that using −−gc-sections globally is unsafe.
22:14:34gevaertsSo my guess is that fixedpoint.c has some stuff we don't always need
22:14:49gevaertsIf that's the case, some ifdefs in there should do the trick
22:15:29 Quit tjb0607 (Quit: Segmentation fault)
22:15:42bluebrother^plugins link their own copy of fixedpoint, right?
22:15:56bluebrother^f.e. fp14_cos() is used in plugins only.
22:16:01gevaertsThat's what I understand, yes
22:16:08*gevaerts vanishes
22:16:30bluebrother^but since those now we link against a global libfixedpoint.a using ifdefs kinda doesn't work
22:16:37bluebrother^unless we build it twice
22:17:09*bluebrother^ ponders splitting fixedpoint.c up into multiple files again
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22:19:58bluebrother^hmm. fp_factor() and fp_decibels() could also be macros. Is there a reason against that?
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22:28:50funmani prefer static inline
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22:35:48bluebrother^fair enough
22:36:26bluebrother^hmm. fixedpoint.make doesn't handle more than one source file?
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22:40:31jhMikeSbluebrother^: when does it crash, btw. disk_unmount seems an odd place and nothing seems out of the ordinary in the .map file (no strange discards)
22:43:10*jhMikeS also wonders why he hasn't had issues, maybe should try h10 since it's the most similar thing
22:43:57bluebrother^jhMikeS: it's caused by −−gc-functions
22:44:31jhMikeSipod mini g2, correct?
22:44:37bluebrother^I've changed that for now and then figured that unnecessary code from fixedpoint.o is linked, increasing the binary size :/
22:44:47bluebrother^that's what it has been reported on
22:45:14jhMikeSthe .map says no
22:46:11jhMikeSI might be out of sync here in the discussion
22:46:21bluebrother^seems :)
22:46:47bluebrother^I've removed setting −−gc-functions in fixedpoint.make a bit earlier tonight
22:46:54bluebrother^which makes mini2g at least work again
22:46:56jhMikeSah, yeah, without that, it'll include the entire lib. why must every target be adjusted?
22:47:23bluebrother^target adjusted?
22:47:59jhMikeSto not use −−gc-sections?
22:48:22bluebrother^I was reading the problematic diff and figured that we're now using −−gc-sections for the rockbox.elf link
22:49:10bluebrother^no, not every target. But if fixedpoint.make causes −−gc-functions to be set it will always be set if fixedpoint.a is linked
22:49:48bluebrother^but since −−gc-functions has effects on other linked libs (and the objects linked) I don't think it's a good idea to have a linked library enable −−gc-functions
22:50:53jhMikeS-ffunction-sections and -fdata-sections won't work then since the unused sections won't be discarded
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22:53:59jhMikeSlibs that aren't built with those flags should stay intact when linking if any part is used since the functions and data aren't distinguished by sections
22:58:55 Quit amayer (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
22:58:56jhMikeS−−gc-sections will discard asm functions with sections like .text.functionname
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23:04:14jhMikeSbluebrother^: was it accessing bad data or something else? perhaps and alignment problem?
23:06:33bluebrother^I haven't figured that :(
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23:08:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:10:51jhMikeSFS #12857 also reports a mini. hmm
23:10:51fs-bluebot Data abort error on iPod Mini 2G (bugs, unconfirmed)
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23:18:12bluebrother^jhMikeS: I cannot reproduce the problem with 08199cd on H10. It's always reproducable on the mini2g though
23:18:30bluebrother^maybe related to the fact that the H10 is PP5020 while the mini2g is PP5022?
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23:22:09jhMikeSbluebrother^: my e200 works fine, also H10 does (but's my only P502x with an actual disk)
23:23:55jhMikeSI also don't see any discarded input sections that are not discarded in any other target
23:24:01[Saint]iPod 4G checks out.
23:24:57[Saint]I have one remaining with a spinning platter to test on. I left it so I could still test stuffs.
23:25:25[Saint]If I can do anything there - shout.
23:25:44*jhMikeS wants to check the .lds file
23:27:11*jhMikeS sees curious differences
23:30:30bluebrother^gtg for today. Can do tests tomorrow evening if necessary / useful. Just let me know ...
23:35:23 Join Cultist [0] (
23:35:49CultistWill iPod Video themes work fine on the iPod Classic, since they have the same resolution?
23:36:34amayerCultist, yes
23:36:43Cultistsweet, thanks
23:38:47jhMikeS[Saint]: no mini g2? :)
23:39:03[Saint]No /functional/ mini g2, no ;)
23:39:14[Saint]though, I could probably build one....
23:41:03 Quit Wardo (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
23:42:43 Join lebellium_ [0] (
23:43:18 Quit n1s (Quit: Ex-Chat)
23:44:15 Quit lebellium (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
23:44:24 Nick lebellium_ is now known as lebellium (

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