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#rockbox log for 2013-06-03

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00:06:43lebellium my work while watching French Open today :D
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00:43:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:02:52kugelhow large are voice clips typically?
01:09:34 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 22.0/20130528181031])
01:30:20robinmy voice clips are between 2 and 20 kb large.. but it depends on your tts and speex encoder options
01:30:48robinmost of them less than 10kb
01:31:40robinmy display is broken.. thats why I had to install voice clips ;-)
01:33:24[Saint]with some languages, and batsh*t crazy quality settings, on some of the longer or harder to translate strings, ~30kb wouldn't surprise me.
01:46:32robinI still can't figure out how to invert the color of a viewport on a monochrome target (clip+)
01:47:35robinwould like to try to write a patch.. I could learn a lot, still relatively new to programming
01:48:31[Saint]WHat? How do you mean "invert the color".
01:48:45[Saint]There' ANd ~6px of cyan.
01:48:49[Saint]that's your options.
01:49:42robinI mean like the Line Selector Bar
01:50:25robinI want to create a Main Menu with the Skin Engine
01:53:07robinbut the skin engine doesn't allow me to switch foreground and background
01:54:18[Saint]you don't need to patch anything for that, just swap the forground and background color values for the currently selected item.
01:55:18robinworks on colour or grayscale targets, but not on the clip+.. I tried
01:56:07[Saint]adding the invert param to the viewport should have the same effect, but simpler.
01:56:12[Saint]I foprgot about that.
01:56:47[Saint]You want %Vs(mode[, param])
01:57:20robininside the viewport? is ignored, too
02:09:42*[Saint] gently pokes JdGordon
02:10:00[Saint]Either one, or both, of those _should_ work, afaik.
02:10:39[Saint]Can you pastebin the failing section, just to rule out anything weird going on in your code?
02:13:51robinI'm creating a new WPS right now
02:14:37robinon the wiki it says: LCD Type Mono: no colours. tag ignored
02:15:43[Saint]Hmmmm, I thought the monochrome targets used fg/bg and had a concept of on/off.
02:16:32[Saint]That seems weird. As far as I'm aware there's no reason why invert shouldn;t work with monochrome.
02:16:56robinit works in the LCD-Settings for the whole screen
02:20:10[Saint]My apologies. It seems it doesn't work by design - and I can't speculate on why this is. I did think this was possible, but I haven't worked with monochrome or greyscale targets in a while, by choice. :)
02:25:15robinthanks a lot for your time
02:27:51[Saint]Not a problem. Sorry it wasn't more productive than "Turns out you actually can't do this, and I don't know why".
02:28:39[Saint]No doubt there's something complex I'm overlooking, but I can't tell right away why inverting a viewport or part thereof wouldn't be possible.
02:29:44robinI'm trying to understand the code.. perhaps I'll know more tomorrow
02:43:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:49:52JdGordon[Saint]: pong
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04:14:13vsync_hmm, can't seen to be able to unzip the ubuntu font pack
04:20:59[Saint]...with which archiver?
04:21:20vsync_winrar, well nm, found other font packs, works just fine =)
04:21:43[Saint]Ohhhh, not entirely surprising. WinRar is a giant pile of crap. :)
04:23:16vsync_i could try it with unzip on this debian server... but then too lazy to move the extracted stuff back to my desktop then lol
04:23:54vsync_these fonts work just fine :) some pack i downloaded earlier only had 15pt fonts, needed a bit bigger ones
04:24:15[Saint]unzip works for me on debian/Ubuntu here, and 7Zip on Windows.
04:26:03vsync_alrightey :)
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09:12:28bluebrothergevaerts: we pretty much never call open() and close() directly in Rockbox Utility.
09:12:40bluebrotherFirst, we would be using fopen() / fclose(). Just for being pedantic :)
09:13:09bluebrotherand then the most file operations use Qt's file functions, which abstract all this. QFile::close() returns void, so there's nothing we can check there.
09:13:34bluebrotherthe return value of close() might be missed in one of the patchers of course. I haven't checked all of them in every detail :)
09:14:28bluebrotherand getting errors back from the patchers is some kind of special issue anyway. Not all return the result in a good way.
09:15:06bluebrotherand finally, I haven't seen other software that tells me about I/O errors directly. If I had I/O errors I've always only seen them in the kernel log
09:15:10*bluebrother runs off now
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10:19:48wodzbluebrother: ping
10:32:40gevaertsbluebrother: right. Good enough for me, I'd say
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11:01:30pamaurywodz: hey ! I've not seen you in some time
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11:04:55wodzpamaury: yeah, I was away and truly disconnected :-)
11:05:04[Saint_]JdGordon: whoops...missed your highlight.
11:05:28[Saint_]is the 'invert' skinned list param expected to be non-functional in monochrome targets?
11:05:37[Saint_]If so: A brief "Why?"
11:08:17JdGordonim going to go with "untested"
11:09:18[Saint_]Aha. My knowledge suggested to me that it was *possible*, but (especially with the skin engine) I never know if there is some deep rooted blocker preventing it, an oversight, or <other>.
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11:36:38[Saint_] is having a mighty tough time.
11:43:58Zagorload average: 0,96, 0,67, 0,58
11:44:05Zagorno problems from my end
11:44:40[Saint_]whoops. I should've been more precise.
11:44:46[Saint_]Errr...more correct, rather.
11:44:55[Saint_] is having issues.
11:45:20[Saint_]Sorry. I forget they're not the same machine.
11:48:20wodzZagor: thanks for pushing build round results announcements. Now we need to poke bluebrother :-)
11:50:15Zagoryep. bluebrother: *poke* :)
11:51:08Zagoronly the result is wrong. it says all green, but we haven't been all green for a very long time.
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11:59:58wodzZagor: hmm, maybe this should be my ($errors,$warnings) = $get_build_results_sth->fetchrow_array($db->quote($buildround)); ?
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12:00:42wodzZagor: line 921 in
12:01:45wodzor not we passed build hash in execute() earlier
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12:38:20pixelmaI don't remember seeing inverting "black" and "white" on monochrome ever working, and I believe I asked somewhere in the beginning of viewports/viewport "colours"
12:42:26[Saint]line selkector is an example of it being possible, though, no?
12:43:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:32:00pixelmayes, technically it should be possible - just not implemented I guess
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15:34:20alucrydhi guys, can anybody add me to the Wiki Users Group? Irecently pushed rbutil into our [community] repo and would like to add the info on the wiki page
15:34:37alucrydon Arch Linux
15:35:05alucrydmy wiki nick is MaximeGauduin
15:39:18gevaertsalucryd: should be done
15:40:02alucrydgevaerts: Thx very much, it works
15:44:50alucryd[Saint]: thx :)
15:45:36[Saint]Man, WikiUsersGroup is enormous now.
15:45:56[Saint]I know a lot of those accounts aren't in use still (probably), but, still.
15:46:32[Saint]I marvel at how impressive the credits/committers lists are too. Its awesome.
15:46:45Zagorthere's a new way to do this that we should migrate to. basically it's inverted: all new registrations get added to a read-only list and we remove them to give write access.
15:47:02*[Saint] gets all nostalgiclike
15:47:24[Saint]Zagor: ah. that does seem a lot easier.
15:47:53[Saint]Is it possible to trim all users that haven't posted in N?
15:48:20ZagorI guess. there's no ready UI for it though.
15:53:20lebelliumarf my theme for Nano2G is not compatible with release 3.10. I forgot the theme engine was different at the time :(
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19:47:29[Saint]lebellium: I hit that too. :)
19:48:02[Saint]I need to get my ass into gear and disable USB in N2G so we can add it back to the stable releases.
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19:48:38[Saint] /someone/ is willing to beat me to it, though. I have little rb time lately.
19:50:04lebelliumI thought the plan was to fix USB instead :D
19:50:20[Saint]Find out what broke it. :)
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19:52:43lebelliumnobody identified which build broke it?
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19:54:29[Saint]I seem to recall the build where it broke being identified, but that didn't exactly correlate with the revision the breakage was introduced. I may be misremembering, though.
19:54:50[Saint]I think it was more a combination of several changes than one in particular.
19:55:02lebelliumhum ok
19:55:22lebelliumanyway even if USB was working, it would fail with my theme ahaha :D
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20:01:53scorche|shnot quite
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20:02:17scorche|share you just here to troll?
20:02:47Mode"#rockbox +o scorche|sh" by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:03:05Mode"#rockbox +q *!5ad69997@*" by scorche|sh (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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20:06:08[Saint]lebellium: ideally, yes, of course the bug should be caught and squashed - but I have a feeling that that won't be particularly soon. Given the fact that USB is a *nightmare* (from my perspective, at least).
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20:07:18[Saint]Given the fact that the N2G has the OF to get USB from (even though for some reason it doesn't seem like we can trigger a jump into the OF on connect with the N2G, which would be better), simply ensuring Rockbox doesn't panic and die for now should suffice.
20:08:08[Saint]I should look into testing jumping into the OF on USB connect again. There's a chance it was just being weird that day.
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20:42:37lebellium[Saint]: jumping into the OF on USB connect would be great indeed!
20:43:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:44:25lebelliumbut reseting the device after using OF is boring as hell. I hate those standby modes
20:46:02gevaertsYou don't have to. Just write to the partition table :)
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20:57:15lebelliumgevaerts: I don't know what that means but I assume "just" means it's difficult for me :P
20:58:02gevaertsRun fdisk and tell it to save :)
20:58:12gevaertsOf course, don't let it actually change anything!
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21:04:40saratogaZip and Fuze+ for (about) 20 USD shipped
21:04:58saratogaif anyone wants a new device to develop
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21:07:48[Saint]I want another Fuze
21:08:15[Saint]hard to find nice ones around here.
21:08:41[Saint]well, I need a clickwheel ribbon, to be precise.
21:08:55[Saint]If anyone has a dead fuze with a known good faceplate, hit me up.
21:09:05[Saint]v1, v2, don't care.
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21:14:43pamaury[Saint]: isn't a new fuze less expensive ?
21:15:04[Saint]Oh, totally.
21:15:26[Saint]But, if I liked the Fuze+ I'd own one. :)
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21:18:14lebelliumDoes someone like the Fuze+? Oh no sorry, no troll \o/
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21:20:02lebelliumIt has the best screen among all Sansa, so for themes it's rather nice, but that's it unfortunately :(
21:21:17pamaurylebellium: I like the fuze+
21:21:22ikeboyI had a fuze and sold it and got a fuze + instead
21:21:43ikeboyI don't understand why the clips are going for more than the fuze +
21:21:44[Saint]Ohhhh....I bet that sucked.
21:21:52lebelliumpamaury: you also like Creative DAPs \o/
21:22:19pamaury[Saint]: I've seen a fuze v2 for 20€ on a french website, used
21:22:22saratogathe fuze+ has a great DAC, nice battery life, and expandable storage, its just the crummy the touchpad that needs fixing
21:22:23ikeboyI like the fuze plus much better , mainly for the screen
21:22:56pamaurythe touchpad could be better, agreed, but once you get used to it it's really efficient imo
21:23:13ikeboyAlthough i'll agree the OF sucks
21:23:30pamauryyeah the OF of the fuze+ is absolutely terrible, among the worst i've seen
21:23:53lebelliumthe touchpad doesn't need fixing, it needs to be replaced by tactile keys. Nice mod idea here hehe
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21:24:23pamaurythat's the never ending tactile vs touchpad issue, there is no good answer
21:24:24saratogathe battery benchmark results on the wiki for the fuze+ are bad, I thought someone got like 30 hours with it recently?
21:24:42pamauryand recently I even got better
21:24:50saratogacould you put them on the wiki?
21:24:59saratoganice to have these things documented
21:25:23ikeboyI got another fuze + last week for $20
21:25:38ikeboyfrom dealfisher
21:25:48pamaurysaratoga: ok, I'll need to do one with latest git to check
21:25:54lebellium[Saint]: is it normal that the Nano2G doesn't make distinction between my USB ports on computer and my AC USB charger? Is that part of the USB issue?
21:26:18[Saint]Yes, and no.
21:27:32lebelliumThere is no way to use it while charging like any other RB target I have?
21:27:49[Saint]Sure, read the manual.
21:28:22[Saint]hold <any_key_that_isn't_hold> during USb insertion on iPod == charge only.
21:28:28gevaertsAnd when you've finished reading it, the nano2g will be fully charged, and you can use it again :)
21:28:41[Saint]Heh. :)
21:28:59lebelliumI found "3.3 USB Charging" :)
21:29:25[Saint]Ohhhh....hmmmm, actually, the n2g bootloader might not be that new.
21:29:46[Saint]it /may/ be select only.
21:29:56gevaertsThe bootloader shouldn't be involved there
21:30:12gevaertsAlthough the main build is still old, so that could indeed be pre-any-key
21:31:02[Saint]Ah. Yes. Derp. No...the bootloader doesn't care about this.
21:31:17[Saint]For some reason I switch to thinking about bootloader USB.
21:31:32[Saint]which the n2g almost certainly doesn't have.
21:32:14gevaertsThere wouldn't be much point if EDM still exists
21:32:34[Saint]Other iPods do it.
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21:32:56gevaertsWe do many pointless things :)
21:33:25[Saint]This is true. :)
21:33:28gevaertsDo they, actually? In released bootloaders?
21:33:35*gevaerts doesn't remember that
21:33:46gevaertsI haven't used my ipods in a while though
21:33:50[Saint]If the released bootloaders are anywhere near modern, they should.
21:34:21[Saint]They /may/ have escaped update, though.
21:35:06*gevaerts looks
21:35:36gevaertsI see code in there to reboot to EDM after the "insert USB cable" prompt
21:36:52[Saint]Hmmm. I was sure that the iPods had bootloader USb these days. Man...I'm on a roll today.
21:37:59[Saint]I don't /think/ I'm confusing the iPods with the Sansas, but it seems possible.
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21:49:35gevaertsn1s: do you still expect issues with g#471?
21:49:57gevaertsIf not, we should add the patch to rockbox-www, get one of the other Swedes to update the server, and push it
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21:50:40[Saint]Hmmm. What happened to bluebot?
21:52:56n1sgevaerts: no i don't expect issues with it, but i was sort of hoping someone would test it, perhaps with the old texinfo. I also failed completely to build the ypr0 toolchain so i don't know if it needs fixing too. mipsel seems to build fine untouched
21:53:37gevaerts,43149.msg219350.html seems to show that it works for someone at least
21:54:32[Saint]n1s: 64bit machine?
21:54:39[Saint]re: ypr0
21:54:47n1s[Saint]: yes
21:55:10n1si don't remember exactly what failed but it seemed unrelated to texinfo
21:55:20[Saint]I _think_ that is it...I haven't come close to building it on any 64bit machine, but it seems possible on a 32bit machine.
21:55:42[Saint]and, yes, a fucktonne of shit will break :)
21:55:45*gevaerts once built in on a 64bit system
21:55:51gevaertsThat's a while ago though
21:56:14[Saint]Even if it is related to texinfo in some way, it is only one of several concerns.
21:56:38[Saint]I usually get tired after the tenth or so compilation fails, after massaging it and hand-holding to get it that far, and give up.
21:57:08[Saint]I have used your patch to compile the toolchains here very recently, though.
21:57:12[Saint]No issue here.
21:57:16n1sgevaerts: so yes i think we can push it but yes it should be coordinated with updating the server
21:58:00gevaertsn1s: that means a commit to rockbox-www first, which can be done right away I think
21:58:55n1sassuming i know how to do that, yes :)
21:59:17gevaertsIt's easy! Just another git repository :)
22:00:52n1summ my regular checkout has a ww subdir, is it the same?
22:01:14gevaertsThat's weird
22:01:17gevaertsIt shouldn't!
22:01:55n1sno, i'm confused, it's not in that checkout, i might have a checkout of www already
22:02:10gevaertsssh:// for pushing
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22:14:18n1sok, pushed the patches to www
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22:15:41n1sBagder: ping
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22:17:29Bagderyou called good sir?
22:17:50n1syes, could you update www from git when convenient?
22:18:36Bagderhm, I rather completely leave that to Zagor these days...
22:18:56n1saha, i will ask him then
22:18:57Bagderand we should poke him to automate it
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22:43:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:45:34lebelliumWhy does any key power on the Nano? Is play/pause not enough like on almost any other DAP?
22:48:49[Saint]We don't get to control that.
22:49:01[Saint]All the iPods wake on any kay.
22:49:28lebelliumIt's not possible to "custom" the bootloader?
22:49:52gevaertsThat's long before the bootloader runs
22:49:59[Saint]I believe we use Apple code to do a large part of the setup.
22:50:03gevaerts*years* :)
22:50:09[Saint]Not by choice, most likely.
22:50:39gevaertsIt's about which buttons are wired to the power management thing
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22:50:50[Saint]That code expects the device will suspend, not power off, so it makes some sense any key should wake it.
22:50:54gevaertsI doubt very much you can change that in software
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22:51:25[Saint]Errr, indeed. s/That code/That code, and/or the hardware it controls/
22:51:36lebellium[Saint]: maybe it makes sense for the OF, but since Rockbox fully turns off... that's a pity we have no control here
22:51:42saratogapamaury: could you upload the ones you already have as well so that we have more historical numbers? its interesting to be able to track what optimizations had what impact on battery life
22:52:10[Saint]lebellium: get us some full sources and datasheets then :)
22:52:32saratogapower on is usually controled in hardware, or at least some kind of ROM
22:52:36[Saint]Just ask. They'll /totally/ give it to you. ;)
22:52:52gevaerts*knowing* won't help you
22:52:55saratogafor things like the hold switch, most devices actually power on and then the bootloader actually powers them off quickly
22:53:00gevaertsYou'll have to rewire the PCB
22:53:15lebellium[Saint]: since the big boss died and since they no longer care about iPod, it's maybe easier to get them, I don't know \o/
22:53:32*[Saint] highly doubts this
22:54:10[Saint]I also wouldn;t say they stopped caring about the iPod. It just envolved into its final state. The iPod Touch and the Touch Nano.
22:54:13 Nick megal0maniac is now known as megal0maniac_afk (~megal0man@unaffiliated/megal0maniac)
22:55:31[Saint]There's one hilarious failing with the way the system works, and Rockbox, shown on the Classic.
22:55:52[Saint]The device can be powered off, with hold off, and switching hold on powers the device and nukes the config ;)
22:56:01[Saint]That's fun.
22:56:24[Saint]fixed.cfg to the rescue.
22:57:21*[Saint] maintains that the "nuke settings based on hold detection" thing is kinda silly...but is only bitten by it regularly on one target.
22:57:38lebelliumso you're all saying that the reason why Rockbox only starts with the play/pause or power button on most devices is only because the manufacturer was less stupid than Ap....errr... chose that
22:58:31[Saint]Basically. I would assume a large percentage of those devices actually power down, too.
22:58:42[Saint]as opposed to sleeping and hibernation.
23:01:17saratogathe reset setting option could be moved to a config file option, and then let device maintainers enable or disable it as needed based on the device
23:01:48saratogabut who wants to edit 40 different config files with a #define RESET_CONFIG_ON_HOLD_BOOT :)
23:02:11[Saint] ;)
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23:03:19[Saint]Worth a try.
23:03:34saratogadoes anyone know of an OF that doesn't resample 88/96k audio?
23:04:58lebelliumHifiman? \o/
23:05:18saratogai know the sandisk firmware on the clip will actually play WAV files at 96k (but not 24 bit hilariously since they have a buggy parser)
23:05:24saratogai tested it on a scope actually
23:05:40saratogabut most things seem to quietly resample if you give them high sample rates
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23:11:04lebelliumI thought 96k was most of time associated with 24 bit and thus always resampled except on a few audiophile players.
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