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#rockbox log for 2013-06-06

00:12:01 Quit melmothX (Quit: #)
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00:42:49fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision 15fa7f8, 217 builds, 21 clients.
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00:50:37fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 468 seconds.
00:50:38fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision 15fa7f8 result: All green
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02:04:28jn_Hi! i just noticed that the HowtoVerifyPlugins page lacks the clip+ display resolution of 128x64 [and thought someone here on irc might care to change that]
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02:26:50Epicanis(Currently re-checking my issue on the new dev build before I finish the bug report...)
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02:47:22EpicanisBug reported - thanks!
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03:55:34[Saint]Is some knowledgeable sound-y type guy able to give me an idea of how the q value relates to how many bands the curve will effect on either side?
03:55:57[Saint]I assume it is a little far fetched for the graphic EQ to be able to plot the curves?
03:58:18*[Saint] lazily pokes saratoga for guidance
03:59:34saratogaits the ratio of the center frequency to the width
03:59:47saratogaso at 100hz, Q=1 means a filter from 50-150
04:00:17saratogaQ=2 would be 75 to 125
04:00:28saratogawe should absolutely figure out a way to plot the damn response
04:00:30saratogabut i'm lazy
04:01:35[Saint]I was just looking at those damn presets again and getting pissy. The ones I have in gerrit are a lot better than those in git head, but now I know it can be done a lot better it annoys the shit out of me every time I remember about it ;)
04:05:05[Saint]There's at least a few of those presets I know could be done with 2 or 3 bands instead of 10. Others might need as many as 6, I think, if I wanted to try to steal the curve of the presets I based them off exactly.
04:07:27saratogai guess plotting these things on a log scale is probably pretty easy
04:08:27saratogajust make a straight line from center-center*Q/2 to center+center*Q/2, then maybe average the bit in the middle where each preset touches the adjacent
04:08:43[Saint]is there *some* software I could use to visualize the curve if I plug in how many bands at which frequencies?
04:08:55[Saint]I had a look, but my goole-fu failed me.
04:09:16[Saint]I wasn't quite sure what I was searching for, but I was fairly sure it should exist.
04:09:31saratogathat might look weird though if someone puts one band inside of another though
04:09:46saratogayeah theres probably some much smarter way to do this
04:11:18[Saint]I want to get them done, but, I'm having some supreme difficulty visualizing how the result would turn out. As I imagine most would. I keep doubting myself, so it would be nice to actually see it plotted out, be it on Rockbox or otherwise.
04:11:49[Saint]Problem being I have no idea if anything exists that can do that.
04:12:17saratogai don't even know what the rockbox drawing code is like, do we have some easy way to plot stuff
04:13:06saratogaif you want to test, you could use the sim and test_codec plugin to process the RMAA test file, then load it in RMAA
04:13:10[Saint]*cough* JdGordon_ ...? *cough*
04:13:14saratogathere may be some easier way
04:13:48[Saint]Hmmm. That's a start, I guess. A little long winded, but I can manage it.
04:13:56saratogabut basically the edges of each band are just the center +/- center*Q/2
04:14:10saratogaif you put two bands on top of each other, they add
04:14:41[Saint]Aha. That's another thing I was unsure of. Thanks. I couldn't find an answer about that that satisfied me.
04:14:49saratogaand if at all possible, the bass and treble controls should be used in presets rather than the EQ
04:15:23[Saint]That isn't possible /presently/, but, it easily could be...I think.
04:15:32saratogano i think it is
04:15:53saratogaaren't the presets just little config files?
04:16:19[Saint]Well, it is, and it isn't. Presets are just a dumb config file, but, when you save a preset it only saves gain, freq, and precut.
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04:17:07[Saint]So, you could load one, but if you saved it, the bass/trebel settings wouldn't "stick" in the preset, presently.
04:17:14[Saint]That could change.
04:18:34[Saint]Hmmmm, actually, without looking at the code I'm not positive it would load anything other than the values it is looking for from a preset.cfg
04:18:50[Saint]I think it _should_, but I'll take bake saying it *will*, for now.
04:18:55saratogai just tried it and the presets do allow bass/treble settings
04:19:21[Saint]Aha. And if you then save it, you lose them, correct?
04:19:36[Saint](but thay'll still be in config.cfg)
04:19:40saratogayeah if you overwrite one they don't get written back out
04:19:47[Saint]*they'll, ick.
04:19:47saratogabut probably no one edits our presets
04:20:04saratogasince they're overwritten on update
04:20:24[Saint]Yes, but we'd need to take into account them creating their own too, no?
04:20:29saratogamaybe its worth making bass/treble save to them though
04:20:33[Saint]On device, that is.
04:21:06[Saint]I'll have a look, I think that should be very trivial to achieve.
04:21:11saratogathe way the GUI is setup is a bit misleading, since bass and treble are actually implemented via the EQ as well
04:21:48[Saint]But they don't rely on the EQ being active, do they?
04:22:21[Saint]I don't use them, I don't know. If they do, then yes, the menu layout is very misleading.
04:23:22[Saint]Right. So putting them in the EQ section would confuse people, I guess, if they turned EQ off I suppose that would give them the idea that bass/trebel settings would be turned off too.
04:23:33saratogaoh wait
04:23:47saratogais the bass/treble using the same code as the 0 and 10 EQ bands?
04:23:50saratogalet me look at this
04:23:56saratogamaybe we don't need them
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04:26:38JdGordon_[Saint]: arg, whatcha want?
04:27:18saratogahmm no i was right the first time
04:27:39saratogabass/treble are implemented using a single filter that implements bass boost and treble boost in a single pass
04:27:56saratogawhereas the EQ low and high pass filters are separate
04:31:29[Saint]I wonder why they are seperate. What does that gain? I can understand it being an "easy" setting for people, but if they can then additionally apply EQ on top of, and I'm sure people would, it would sound terrible.
04:32:07[Saint]Wouldn't bass/tebel using the high/low shelf of the EQ be essentially exactly the same thing?
04:33:24saratogaperhaps the shape is different?
04:33:42saratogathe shelf filters are pretty flat, the bass/treble ones might have some other shape
04:33:54saratogaits not obvious from the code what the filter should look like, or at least not obvious to me
04:34:02[Saint]Ah. Good point.
04:36:09[Saint]I dislike the fact that someone could apply both bass/trebel gain, *and* EQ gain. It is a failing of understanding from the user's point, certainly, but it is no wonder we get people stating targets that shouldn't be struggling with 'codec X @ bitrate Y" that shouldn't be, and sounding like ass.
04:37:32[Saint]errr, that was a fail. "it is no wonder we get people stating targets are struggling with "codec X @ bitrate Y" when they shouldn't be"
04:38:37saratogahmm rasher's sims don't include the test plugins, which is odd
04:38:51saratogai thought i remembered the sims always including them unless that changed
04:42:43[Saint]I think test_plugins have always been optional for sims.
04:42:54[Saint]s/sims/any target/
04:42:59[Saint]I _think_.
04:47:22 Join tj41172 [0] (
04:48:54tj41172I tried to install rockbox on my sansa fuze a while back and it got bricked
04:49:09tj41172i dont really remember what i did because it was so long ago
04:49:25tj41172but whenever i turn it on it just shows a green box
04:49:39tj41172any suggestions?
04:50:12[Saint]Does a PC recognize it at all?
04:50:46[Saint]Even if it doesn't mount. Or mounts readonly. Or with an improper size.
04:51:20tj41172well i plugged it into my windoze box and it doesnt get recognized
04:51:34tj41172im not sure if my linux box recognizes it either
04:51:53 Quit dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
04:52:05[Saint]Device manager shows nothing as well, I assume?
04:52:37tj41172lemme check
04:53:25tj41172class for PdiPorts devices?
04:53:30tj41172i never seen that before
04:53:33saratogaa green box on the screen?
04:53:39tj41172want a pic?
04:53:49tj41172can i post links?
04:54:04saratogaPdiPorts is probably a driver for some device on your pc
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04:56:43tj41172probably shoulda turned flash off..
04:58:55[Saint]...interesting. I haven't seen that before.
04:59:09saratogabroken screen would be my guess
04:59:33[Saint]Mine too, but it would mount and boot fine, that being the case.
04:59:54[Saint]The Fuze V1/2 don't care if they don't have an LCD, of if the LCD is non-functional.
05:00:11tj41172i dont think the screen is broken tho
05:00:40[Saint]No. Its a fair guess, but the behaviour suggests otherwise.
05:00:48 Quit Epicanis (Quit: bedtime)
05:01:04[Saint]I am guessing you have checked to see if you can boot the OF directly?
05:01:18tj41172define OF
05:01:27[Saint]Original Firmware
05:01:31saratogasandisk firmware
05:01:43tj41172no don't think i have
05:02:03[Saint]Please try. Force a power off, then reboot and force into the OF.
05:02:16tj41172oh that?
05:02:18tj41172i have
05:02:33[Saint]No dice?
05:02:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:02:51tj41172dont you have to hold home and up for like 15 secs or something>
05:03:00tj41172ill look it up and try again
05:03:13saratogai think its left on that player
05:03:21tj41172sorry, i havent touched this thing in years
05:03:25tj41172i dont remeber everything
05:03:39[Saint]I don't think home+>|| is any key combo we use.
05:03:45[Saint]At least not at boot time.
05:05:34tj41172ok so to force msc is hold + left
05:05:42tj41172what is OF recovery?
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05:06:23[Saint]What? Where are you seeing this?
05:06:49[Saint]To force a boot into the OF, you need to hold left during boot.
05:06:59[Saint]Our fine manual explains this quite well.
05:08:01tj41172well i think im in trouble now
05:08:06tj41172its stuck on the green box now...
05:08:31[Saint]Hold power for 30s
05:09:57tj41172no dice...
05:10:03tj41172im still holding it
05:13:15[Saint]Well, options here are basically: let the battery drain (which will take ~42h max, or thereabouts, depending how charged it is), or, disassemble and desolder a lead (not advised, unless you're very confident).'
05:14:19[Saint]Outlook for recovery is reasonably bleak, but at this stage there's no real option but to open the device anyway. If you're committed to doing everything possible in the name of recovery.
05:14:36tj41172thats what ive read.
05:14:43tj41172if i let the battery drain
05:14:49tj41172what are my options at that point?
05:15:32[Saint]Basically, what you would hope for at that point is that when you insert USB and hold left, it would magically boot into the OF and allow you to mount and recover.
05:16:13[Saint]That is unlikely, but it is the " no damage, no effort" method. One that should be tried before committing to opening the device.
05:16:14tj41172i think i tried that already
05:16:24saratogasince no one has ever reported taht screen, the odds are that your player is completely broken in some unusual way
05:17:04[Saint]Indeed. That is quite correct. Odds for recovery are likely, but I can't definitively say it /can't/ be recovered.
05:17:06tj41172its been broken like this for a while and i gave up on i dont know what version it is
05:17:13[Saint]And, there's nothing to lose really.
05:17:44[Saint]You certainly *can* break it more than it already is, but it is useless at this point anyway. :)
05:17:50tj41172so ill need my soldering iron?
05:18:02[Saint]Where are you located geographically?
05:18:16[Saint]...I was looking for a Fuze V1/2 faceplate... :P
05:18:54[Saint]Ah. Quite a distance. Anyhoo...
05:19:03[Saint]And yes, you would need a soldering iron.
05:19:33[Saint]Soldering iron, 00 phillips driver, and insulated tweezers.
05:19:43tj41172insulated tweezers...
05:19:47tj41172idk if i have that
05:20:08[Saint]Well, you'll only need that to put it back together if it works ;)
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05:20:41tj41172so is the process the one on the wiki?
05:20:58[Saint]That is correct. That is all we know about this.
05:21:28tj41172honestly i think i botched the rockbox installation
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05:21:43[Saint]It is by no means an exact science. There are several things about the process no one understands at all. It is all a bunch of magic, really.
05:22:03[Saint]Half the time I think recovery by this method is either accidental, or pure luck.
05:22:43tj41172well at least i know why i could never find info on how to fix this problem...
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05:52:30tj41172ok so it turned off
05:52:47tj41172what is the proccess again?
05:52:53tj41172hold left and plug in?
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06:05:02[Saint]apply power, hold left, prey to whatever deity you see fit.
06:12:50[Saint]usb, wall charger, doesn't matter. The only reason we're applying power at all is in case the battery doesn't have enough power to complete the boot process.
06:13:30tj41172blue ring lit up
06:13:52tj41172green box popped up and disapeared
06:14:00tj41172now its just black
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06:32:35tj41172well i give up
06:32:39tj41172thanks for the help saint
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13:12:15[Saint]Does anyone know the proposed course of action for the Android SDK finally removing the long deprecated apt-tool we rely on for building RaaA for Android?
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15:19:33***Alert Mode OFF
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16:23:26CtcpIgnored 4 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:23:26*[Saint] finishes modernifying the remaining iLike themes.
16:24:52[Saint]I need to fix them up so they respect as many user settings as possible, though. Like show icon, status bar, scroll bar, etc.
16:25:14[Saint]I notice we don't have an "off" for a few things.
16:25:22[Saint]like battery and volume display.
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16:26:16[Saint]themes could be trivially coded respect these settings, were they present.
16:27:50[Saint]skinned lists give you a fun way to allow a theme to ignore a whole tonner of things they probably shouldn't, unless a fair amount of forethought goes into the creation of the list setup.
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16:32:48[Saint]Tee-Hee...I can make this *so* much nicer than the Apple firmware, whilst still looking exactly like it.
16:33:46[Saint]respecting the status and scroll bar placement is a nice touch they never offered.
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16:38:17[Saint]Anyhoo, another day. I've converted iLike Nano, 4G, Color/Photo, and Video(/Classic) to my shiny new list syntax and viewport setup. Just need to plug in the conditionals so that everything that can play nice with the various theme/{scroll|status} bar settings, do.
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16:50:35copper[Saint]: what's a safe skin besides cabbiev2 for the Classic? with regards to the USB problems
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16:51:14coppercurrent iLike looks pretty bad IMO, especially the font
16:51:48coppermostly the font*
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17:02:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:46:25redhotHello RockBoxers!
17:46:44redhotI've got issue on Clip+
17:47:11redhotWIth latest RockBox 3.13
17:48:07redhotWith "Auto Update" enabled I've got library scan almost on every player shutdown/switching on
17:48:29redhotAnd then as a result - multiple instances of same titles are present in Library
17:48:38redhotIs the ticket already opened?
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17:52:45funmandid you try a current build ?
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18:05:17redhotfunman: I like realeases only :D but I can
18:05:31redhotok, gonna try today, thanks :)
18:05:44redhotactually it has appeared only in 3.13
18:06:04redhotI've had a lot of fun and 0 bugs with 3.12 8)
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18:35:09saratogai've got an mp3 file where the coverart is skipped
18:35:23saratogai think its because theres an enormous XML file attached to the ID3v2 tag
18:35:29saratogais that expected to break parsing?
18:36:18Tornei think we have some size limit on the tag
18:36:20redhotsaratoga: do you see coverart while playback on PC or somewhere else?
18:36:32saratogayes, foobar can read it
18:36:39redhotnice player :)
18:36:42saratogastripping the entire tag and rewriting it without the XML fixes parsing
18:37:05saratogai know we have a limit on the metadata itself after its parsed (900 bytes) but i didn't think there was one on the stream itself
18:37:14saratogabut i can't remember
18:37:33saratogaUnhelpful might know?
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18:50:27z180can rockbox handle a target with a double LCD, one touchscreen?
18:52:37bertrikwe can handle remotes with an LCD, so I guess we can handle the non-touchscreen LCD as "remote"
18:53:43ambossClip Zip with Sansa firmware; can't format the SD card.
18:53:53ambossJust gets stick at 'Formatting...'.
18:55:35redhotamboss: it is better to use PC for formatting I think :)
18:55:39 Quit saratoga (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
18:56:05ambossredhot: Yes, I suppose so.
18:56:48redhotamboss: probably your player is making format tooo slow so it seems to be frozen
18:56:54 Quit knittl (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
18:56:54redhotIt may took few hours, for instance
18:57:09ambossI see.
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18:57:26z180the DS DSi 3DS have ARM cpus and a SD flashcart is available
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19:19:25Tornewell, feel free to do a DS port
19:19:53Tornethough you might find it works better to port it to the DStwo cart's MIPS core instead, which is way more powerful ;)
19:21:15 Quit redhot (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium
19:21:34Torneamboss: sorry, but that's not very good advice ;)
19:21:43Torneformatting should take maybe 30-60 seconds at most, probably more like 5
19:21:56Torneand on many players it's preferable to format on the player, not on a pc :)
19:22:12ambossTorne: I just formatted on the PC with parted/mkfs.vfat.
19:22:14Tornesince the player is more likely to use the right settings, and doesn't have the windows restrictions on formatting >32GB volumes as fat32
19:22:24Tornesure, you can
19:22:34Tornebut there's not really any reason to *prefer* that
19:22:51Torneit should also work on the player :)
19:24:12Tornei dunno why it wasn't working for you, but it normally does.
19:24:23Tornei was just noting that redhot's comment was not correct
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19:29:27ambossAlso, a question: If i re-install the official firmware on a Clip Zip by extracting the official clpza.bin onto it and letting it upgrade, will that also remove the rockbox bootloader?
19:29:57ambossOh, yes, it does. Silly me.
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22:45:26amboss Looks beautiful! Thank you to everyone that works on Rockbox.
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