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#rockbox log for 2013-06-14

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02:58:20 Join Ceninant [0] (
02:58:55CeninantCan't get playlist format setup in Winamp for my player, alternatives for creating playlists on PC?
03:00:07CeninantI have a Clip Plus, actually the playlist format is gone when I'm loading USB from OFW. When loading USB from Rockbox, rockbox just freezes.
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08:55:52Derpinahry saint
08:56:04Derpinaim back!
08:56:29Derpinahow else can i speak to you other than on IRC?
08:56:45Derpinai dont think i'll have in when booting into linux
08:57:00Derpina i dont think i'll have in when booting into linux
08:57:18Derpina i dont think i'll have IRC in when booting into linux and i need instructions from you
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09:30:09[Saint]It seems I have lost USB for iPod Classic under Ubuntu now.
09:30:43[Saint]Need to use the fallback image (bless its 'lil binary heart...) instead.
09:32:09[Saint]I'm not sure what revision I was on before I updated them, but, I can make a rough guess. I'll try to find out what straw broke the camels back later this evening.
09:35:59[Saint] may be my theme.
09:36:07[Saint]lebellium will be pleased.
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09:44:29[ungali]Does the fallback try to load the regular conf files?
09:44:59[ungali]Just out of curiosity.
09:55:12 Join pamaury [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/pamaury)
10:06:07[Saint]It will load plugins and codecs as well, but, they will fail due to the version missmatch.
10:06:41[Saint]That's ok, though, I just use it for USB...and that's pretty much solely what it exists for.
10:07:50[Saint]Until now I had never had to do so, though. USB connection on linux had been flawless for me, but then I updated, and...bam. My theme seems to trigger it.
10:32:27 Quit Marex (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
10:32:48[ungali]My classic does the same thing. I just switch themes when want to copy files.
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11:05:32copper[Saint]: what makes you think it's the theme, and what update do you think triggered it (the kernel?)
11:11:46[Saint][21:05:34] <copper> [Saint]: what makes you think it's the theme - reverting to cabbiev2 "fixes" it.
11:12:24[Saint], and what update do you think triggered it (the kernel?) - I don't believe it was an Ubuntu/linuc change that broke it.
11:12:42[Saint]*linux, even.
11:12:43copperoh, you updated Rockbox?
11:13:07copperso does the latest rockbox build work with cabbiev2?
11:13:16copperwrt USB
11:13:24[Saint]For the first time in about a fortnight or so, so it shouldn't be too hard to narrow down what happened.
11:13:45[Saint]Yes. The latest build works for me with cabbieV2, but not with my iLike theme.
11:14:21[Saint]The fallback works with my iLike theme, though. But ironically the fallback images vskin engine is far too old to parse most of the theme ;)
11:14:57coppercan you identify anything suspicious in your theme, at all?
11:15:27copperI fixed mine but it's too early to tell if it makes a real difference
11:15:48[Saint]Fact is. Nothing in a theme should be capable of doing this. At all.
11:16:07copperwhich is why I'm still not entirely convinced that's the problem
11:16:09[Saint]It is technically impossible, if everything worked as it was supposed to.
11:16:20copperit sounds like a stretch
11:16:25[Saint]But it is repeatable.
11:16:36pixelmadoes cabbiev2 have an sbs?
11:16:46[Saint]pixelma: no
11:17:26[Saint]copper: You might think so, but, it has been proven. Themes can reliably trigger USB fuckups, but no one really knows why.
11:17:37copperah, ok then
11:17:45copperI'll take your word for it
11:17:53[Saint]It all kinda points to something awry with the memory management.
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11:19:59[Saint]bufflib is a ridiculously complicated beast.
11:20:28[Saint]The system prior to that was complicated enough. I get lost in bufflib *very* easily.
11:21:11gevaertsThere *was* no system before buflib
11:22:26[Saint]sorry, I was a bit vague there. I was talking about the skin engine specifically in that case. SOrry.
11:25:01copperI don't really understand the %Vd(a) and %Vl(a,…) stuff
11:25:27copperalso, is it normal to redefine the dimensions of a %Vl(a) viewport?
11:25:40copperone set of dimensions, then another
11:25:46copperwith the same identifier
11:26:45[Saint]Yes. That's perfectly normal.
11:27:08[Saint]It isn't "redefining" the viewport, it is many seperate viewports that share an identifier.
11:27:14[Saint]So that they may be called at the same time.
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12:35:14lebelliumI try again \o/ : anyone would like to have a look at the Win32 Clip Zip UI simulator?
12:39:05funmanwhat kind of look?
12:39:35lebelliumwhy it crashes when loading a theme
12:39:53gevaertsZagor: can you remove/disable ? That's a spammer
12:39:59lebellium(obviously) didn't happen before
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12:48:14kugelpetur, gevaerts: what hotel possibilities do we have for gent (say, July 12-14)
12:50:13funmanlebellium: you've tried a Linux sim and other targets already?
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13:07:18peturkugel: I would try to book lepelbed again. But it is holiday season and I need a date....
13:08:32peturalso, interest in joining devcon seems low this year...
13:08:36[Saint]buy me a drink and we'll talk about it... ;)
13:10:55peturor maybe look to pick a date a bit more in the future, like october/november)?
13:12:03kugelpetur: that would suit me as well
13:12:38kugelmid july is last chance for me, after then I need to concentrate on my master thesis until at least sept 3
13:13:12peturcurrent dates are quite close so expensive flights and hard to find hotelrooms as a result
13:14:28kugelyea. the weekend july 5-7 is already 150€, the weekend after only 100€ (return flight)
13:19:20lebelliumfunman: only Windows but I tried Clip+ (same build, same day, yesterday or the day before) and it works fine
13:20:33[Saint]If I were to do a few generic width/height independent theme templates, lest say for ease to just consider the color targets - ranging from smallest to largest screen dimensions - what is the minimum number of templates I would need to make (considering sizing of status bar and playback control elements)?
13:20:37[Saint]...perhaps 3?
13:22:32funmanlebellium: did you try several themes?
13:22:43[Saint]The idea would be to be able to re-use one theme for many targets whilst changing as little as possible, perhaps a few viewport offset/sizing declarations, and a new backdrop.
13:23:17lebelliumfunman: I tried loading a user theme and reloading cabbiev2.
13:23:32pixelma[Saint]: I'd look at which typical aspect ratios there are
13:26:33[Saint]pixelma: Hmmm. Indeed. I think I'll need to chart it out.
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13:27:32[Saint]The idea is to make it so it is easier to port to new devices, and have as little variation between the same theme on different devices as possible.
13:28:12kugel[Saint]: I have this, sort of, in my dynamic_lcd branch
13:28:43kugelthere's ports for higher-res RaaA targets which are almost exactly the same, just a few numbers swapped
13:29:06kugelno autogeneration from a single template though
13:29:14[Saint]Porting to a new device _should_ be as simple as picking the set of art that suits the devices screen the best, changing a few viewport dimensions, and resizing a backdrop for it from a larger master image.
13:30:18[Saint]I'm wondering what the minimum amount of sizes I would need would be. I'm thinking three or four, but I'll need to plot out the targets by screen size and have a look.
13:31:14kugelthe question is how many layouts we have/need, the resolution is secondary
13:31:34[Saint]Ah, good point.
13:31:39[Saint]Very good point.
13:31:48kugelthere's at least portrait and landscape, there's also square but I don't know how different it is
13:31:57[Saint]Thankyou. That would've got me into some strife down the road.
13:32:53kugeltouch targets have a (slightly) different layout currently due to the popup
13:33:05*[Saint] nods
13:33:31kugelbut for a given layout it should be possible to scale it to different resolutions from a single template
13:37:15[Saint]WHen I'm done, hopefully it should make porting to new targets a lot easier. And instead of their being a bunch of ever so slightly differently implemented and resized/re-colored themes, you could pick a suitable template and change a few simple viewport sizes and generate a backdrop for it.
13:37:25[Saint]That's the master plan, at least.
13:38:05kugelthat's what's in my dynamic_lcd branch (for portrait RaaA)
13:38:24[Saint]Yeah, I've had a snoop around in there before.
13:38:41kugelit also has a way to center images in the viewport which I should merge into master finally
13:39:04[Saint]Yes. Yes you should. :)
13:39:10[Saint]I would like to play with that. :)
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13:43:41[Saint]Well...that's not merging it now is it? :p
13:44:16[Saint]There's also a shittonne of your LCD work in gerrit I'd like to see committed. You should poke some people with pointy objects.
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13:49:28kugel[Saint]: well, I would people to review and test it ...
13:49:44kugelI'm not putting it on gerrit to submit it right away anyway
13:50:13kugelhave you tested it?
13:54:20[Saint]I have. Though I'm not sure if I am up-to-date with everything from every patch. I would need to double check that. I guess I should say so in the tasks, but I'm not sure my opinion hold much sway.
13:54:59kugelgerrit has a "i have tested this" button, please use it
13:57:41[Saint]To be honest, I didn't think that saying I had tested was particularly important unless I was actually going to review it as well.
13:58:02[Saint]But, if it is, I shall start doing so more often.
13:58:03kugelit's important to me
13:58:19kugelit shows me that there's some interest in the work
13:58:32[Saint]I shall start doing so more often then.
13:59:15[Saint]I'm sorry that my not doing so may have made you think your efforts gathered no interest. Not my intention at all.
14:06:51kugelso far nobody at all has replied to any of that work
14:08:49gevaertsThe problem with big changes is that the chances of someone actually reviewing them are quite low, so test results may be the best we can get
14:11:39kugelI've worked hard to split the work up so that it can be reviewed incrementally
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18:03:39 Join TheSzczepancio [0] (
18:04:20TheSzczepancioI'm interessed about compiling a own bootloader for Sansa Clip Zip, any help? I can't find the code in Ubuntu Dev Image.
18:04:35TheSzczepancioI compiled own plugin and it's work's, but the bootloader...
18:05:02amayerTheSzczepancio, are you just looking for the project code?
18:05:23TheSzczepancioI'm looking for a bootloader sansa clip zip code and method for compiling.
18:05:36TheSzczepancioI want to run own bootloader at Sansa Clip Zip.
18:06:00TheSzczepancioI have Ubuntu VM image and I can compile plugins, but there no method to compile a bootloader (nobody says how).
18:06:10pamaurywhy do you want to do that ?
18:06:17TheSzczepancioBecause of learning.
18:06:20TheSzczepancioWhy not?
18:07:19TheSzczepancioIf bootloader is compiled to rockbox.sansa there must be way to compile it.
18:07:20pamauryI would advise to run your own firmware, which is easier to update, updating the bootloader on the Clip Zip is not a trivial process
18:07:35TheSzczepancioOk, how to programm own firmware?
18:07:56TheSzczepancioEditing firmware files and making it complicated isn't fun.
18:07:58pamauryin theory, everything you need to know is here:
18:08:20TheSzczepancioI know.
18:08:38TheSzczepancioBut how to make own firmware file? Just edit the rockbox/firmware files?
18:08:41gevaertsTheSzczepancio: compiling the bootloader is as easy as compiling the rest, you just select b for bootloader in configure
18:09:05TheSzczepancioNo, no, I want to edit the code of bootloader, in short.
18:09:15TheSzczepancioMake own bootloader/or firmware, just for fun.
18:09:22TheSzczepancioAnd learning purposes.
18:09:30gevaertsWell, the code is all there
18:09:36amayerthe boot loader code is in with the project. its not a different project
18:09:44pamauryTheSzczepancio: were you able to compile the firmware without any modification first ? If yes, then you edit whatever you want. The code is spread out in two directories mostly: apps/ and target/
18:09:54pamaury*firmware/ sorry
18:10:05TheSzczepancioBut it's making complicated, editing the firmware.
18:10:14TheSzczepancioI want to make new firmware file and compile it, it's possible?
18:11:23TheSzczepanciopamaury - I'm able do it.
18:11:38pamauryI don't understand, compiling the first is simple: run configure (once) and then make. Editing the firmware, well, you can edit whatever you want, the code is quite big though, it depends on what you want to change
18:11:59TheSzczepancioI want to make new helloworld firmware.
18:12:07TheSzczepancioSo i wanna make new code files, no editing.
18:12:17TheSzczepancioNo editing, so how to do it?
18:12:55pamauryAh, I see. You cannot really start from scratch because just printing something on the screens requires thousands lines of codes. Starting with a plugin would be simpler.
18:14:40TheSzczepancioAhh, ok.
18:15:19pamauryfor what it's worth, nothing prevents you from editing apps/main.c and run your code after all the hardware init, it's just more complicated and you advise to start with plugins first, to get used to rockbox and the API at least.
18:15:38TheSzczepancioIs there a way to compile a plugin without the whole rockbox source folder?
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18:16:38lebelliumpamaury: is the Fuze+ supposed to sound better with RB than with OF?
18:17:02pamauryhum, I don't think we have a way to do that, at least i'm not sure. But is having the source folder a problem ?
18:17:18TheSzczepanciojust it making it complicated
18:17:33TheSzczepancioi must add the code file name to the categories and sources?
18:17:48TheSzczepancioit's the probarly last question
18:17:55TheSzczepanciolebellium i think it's better
18:17:57pamaurylebellium: there were some tests posted on audiophile.something iirc, I think RB is a bit better but has this annoying hiss when silent. Was it saratoga who posted the link to the tests ?
18:18:43TheSzczepancioi must add the code file name to the CATEGORIES and SOURCES files?
18:18:54lebelliumhow could it sound better? That means sandisk did not code the audio driver well enough?
18:19:17pamauryTheSzczepancio: follows Start with a simple project: one file only, then yes add it to CATEGORIES and SOURCES
18:19:37TheSzczepancioOk, i understood.
18:20:58pamaurylebellium: the audio DAC is quite configurable, you can tweaks many hardware settings. Sandisk used the Freescale SDK, so maybe Freescale didn't write a good enough driver or sandisk misused it
18:21:12pamauryI must say the DAC parameters sounds like dark magic to me
18:21:21pamaurylebellium: by the way, I got a YP-R1 !
18:21:22TheSzczepanciopamaury, what device u are using?
18:22:17pamauryI use the fuze+ mostly, but I have plenty of other players
18:23:28lebelliumpamaury: ok thanks for the answer. Great for the R1! We still have to decide the screen orientation for Rockbox. What do you think? In OF the default mode is landscape but for the WPS there is a vertical option
18:23:57TheSzczepancioWhat is the best player today on the bought store?
18:24:11TheSzczepancioI have clip zip, there is fuze+ and clip+.
18:24:12pamauryI've not used it yes, I think both are fine but I prefer portrait usually because it does a better usable of the screen
18:24:14TheSzczepancioWhat is the best?
18:24:56TheSzczepancioFuze+, Clip Zip, Clip+?
18:25:23lebelliumI prefer portrait too, better for themes, less unused space.
18:25:24pamauryThat's mostly a matter of taste, some dislike the fuze+ because of the touchpad. The clip+ is probably one of the best sounding players but our USB support for it is flaky at best. The Zip has a nicer screen and similar sound quality I think
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18:26:39TheSzczepancioYou use fuze+ by today, yes?
18:27:18lebelliumI don't think the Zip has a nicer screen than the Clip+. The Zip has a very poor quality screen (colors and resolution). Better a good monochrome screen than a bad colour screen
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18:27:48pamauryyou see: different opinions ;)
18:29:08TheSzczepancioSo the best for programming a own firmware is arduino, yep?
18:29:16TheSzczepanciofor fun and learning purposes?
18:30:56CeninantI have a fuze+
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18:32:07CeninantI like the clip+ over the clip zip, I bought both on ebay. The clip zip's USB is flaky in Rockbox firmware.
18:32:35pamauryThere is no such thing as "the best", mosty/any simple chip will do. Arduino makes it quite easy but perhaps "too" easy if you use the IDE and the library provided. It depends on what your are looking for, really
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18:35:05CeninantI fixed the fuze+'s capacitive crap by adding some medical tape on each of the "buttons". Now I have tactile feedback.
18:38:32lebelliumnice idea but your broke the awesome sandisk design \o/
18:41:25CeninantIf they raised the surfaces and put dots on it, it would have been usable.
18:42:21CeninantBut I have a question..I can't seem to get the playlist format setup in Winamp for my player, best way for creating playlists on PC? Or just create the playlist, then autoreplace the drive letter with nothing?
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18:52:56TheSzczepancio@pamaury, is there way to compile only one code of plugin to .rock file, because it takes so long to compile all?
18:55:00pamauryyes: make <absolute path to the rock file>
18:55:11TheSzczepanciofrom build directory?
18:55:40TheSzczepanciocd rockbox/build and make test.c
18:55:45TheSzczepanciofrom desktop for example
18:56:56pamauryexample: assuming your are at the root of the build dir: make "$(pwd)/apps/plugins/test_mem.rock"
18:57:46TheSzczepanciocompiling from rock to rock?
18:57:52TheSzczepancioi dont understood
18:57:58TheSzczepancioi want to compile from c to rock
18:59:41TheSzczepanciopamaury, and one more question - it's comfortable to play games on fuze+ (for example doom?
18:59:56pamaurythis will automatically compile the plugin to the rock file, you have to use the makefile, compiling a plugin is quite complicated
19:00:19pamauryI admit I've never tried to play any game on the fuze+, I don't know
19:00:23CeninantSome of the games work. Don't expect to really PLAY doom on it. It's more of a demo than anything.
19:00:37TheSzczepanciodoom on sansa clip zip is playable
19:00:45TheSzczepancionot the best but i can pass first level xD
19:00:48TheSzczepancioon freedom
19:01:15CeninantAny ideas on my playlist problem?
19:02:49pamauryI never use playlist so not really, unfortunately
19:03:07pamaurymaybe ask later, other people might know
19:04:37TheSzczepanciomake: *** No rule to make target `/home/ubuntu/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/test_mem.rock'. Stop.
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19:07:12pamauryyou have to replace test_mem by the name of your plugin !
19:07:35pamaurytest_mem is only available if you enable test plugins in configurable, so that's not the best example
19:07:45pamauryreplace it with doom for example
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19:10:30TheSzczepancioubuntu@ubuntu-VirtualBox:~/Desktop/rockbox/build$ make "$(pwd)/apps/plugins/doom.c"
19:10:30TheSzczepancioGenerating dependencies
19:10:30TheSzczepanciomake: *** No rule to make target `/home/ubuntu/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/doom.c'. Stop.
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19:11:43TheSzczepancioubuntu@ubuntu-VirtualBox:~/Desktop/rockbox/build$ make "$(pwd)/apps/plugins/doom.c"
19:11:43TheSzczepancioGenerating dependencies
19:11:43TheSzczepanciomake: *** No rule to make target `/home/ubuntu/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/doom.c'. Stop.
19:11:49TheSzczepancio/usr/local/lib/gcc/arm-elf-eabi/4.4.4/../../../../arm-elf-eabi/bin/ld: cannot open linker script file /home/ubuntu/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/ No such file or directory
19:11:49TheSzczepanciocollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:11:49DBUGEnqueued KICK TheSzczepancio
19:11:49TheSzczepanciomake: *** [/home/ubuntu/Desktop/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/helloworld.rock] Error 1
19:11:51pamauryah sorry, doom is another bad example, it's a folder and not a simple file plugin
19:12:01TheSzczepanciohelloworld is not compiling
19:12:29pamaurytry with "credits" first
19:12:41pamauryit's one of the simplest plugins, if it doesn't work for it, there is a problem
19:13:00TheSzczepancioits working
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19:13:41TheSzczepanciohelloworld too
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19:27:14DarthFrog I've just installed emcore and rockbox on my new iPod 160 GB Classic. I notice in the Tools menu that I can re-format the data partition. What file system will be used? Can I set the filesystem type to be ext4fs?
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19:34:25DarthFrogOr, rather, can I set the file system format to be one that is compatible with file name characters acceptable in ext4fs?
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19:41:38CeninantRockbox doesn't like anything but fat32
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19:58:39DarthFrogCeninant: Thanks.
19:59:28DarthFrogI guess I now need to find a utility to convert ext4fs filenames to fat32 format.
20:05:44CeninantWhat are you trying to do, and what is ext4fs?
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20:24:30TheSzczepancioAnybody here?
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20:43:35DarthFrogCeninant: ext4fs is the default filesystem for Kubuntu Linux. My previous player (Neuros 2) accepted ext4 filenames and I have 200 GB of music in my Linux system. The iPod/Rockbox doesn't like very many of my current filenames.
20:44:11DarthFrogCeninant: So my goal is to get my music on my iPod as painlessly as possible.
20:46:47DarthFrogExt4 is even more generous than NTFS in the acceptable filename characters allowance.
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20:49:38copperDarthFrog: what characters do you use that FAT32 doesn't like?
20:49:56CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:49:56*gevaerts assumes : mainly
20:50:01copperalso, mount your FAT32 (iPod) partition with the iocharset=utf8 option
20:50:09DarthFrog' :, etc.
20:50:21copper' works fine
20:50:49coppercan't remember about " but I use american quotes: “quotes”
20:51:09DarthFrogcopper: Hmm, I wonder what was causing problems with file transfers, then?
20:51:11copperand yeah I do replace ':' with ' - '
20:51:40coppercan't remember exactly about '?' and '!' either
20:51:45copperI also strip those out
20:51:58coppermeh, sure google knows the answer
20:52:25lorenzo92pamaury: the port on R1 is at a good point (of course is a RaaA), but much work is remaining of course, i will continue that at some point ^^
20:52:51DarthFrogThat's fine for new rips. I've set soundkonverter to use FAT format. But it's the more than 200 gig that I've already got that's the issue. As you say, I shall exercise my Google-fu.
20:53:33DarthFrogBTW, which version of the manual is most applicable to the iPod Classic? The one for the iPod Video?
20:53:50copper"Valid filename characters for FAT32 AFAIK are A-Z,0-9 and ~!@#$%^&()_-{},.=[]`' and a space. So "?;:/\+ are invalid"
20:53:57copperyeah iPod Video
20:54:42copperI also replace / with ∕
20:55:03DarthFrog with what? What character is that?
20:55:35copperUnicode U+2215
20:55:52copperit looks like a slash, with a slightly different angle
20:55:57DarthFrogWhy that character? Why not \?
20:56:56DarthFrogOr are you not referring to the directory character?
20:58:47copperyes I am
20:59:33coppersearch "DIVISION SLASH"
20:59:37copperthat's the character
21:02:24DarthFrogI'm going slowly at first, only putting a few gigs on Rockbox until I get familiar with all the ins 'n outs. :-) So if I have to wipe it clean and start again, no big deal. So far I really like Rockbox and I *really* like that I can do file transfers onto it in Linux without needing to boot into Windows.
21:03:25DarthFrogOther than the file names problems, it's been really easy. I like easy. :-)
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22:43:49ukleinekpamaury: hey, thanks for your heads-up mail.
22:44:17ukleinekpamaury: there was yet another guy who was interested in my driver.
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22:45:09ukleinekpamaury: I'm open for mainlining and I'd like to have it mainline, but I don't know when I find the time to do that. If you have interest to contact the other person -> #alsa-soc.
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23:28:14pamauryukleinek: ok thanks, can you tell me who he/she is ?
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