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#rockbox log for 2013-06-21

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02:20:17dunpealCan I delete everything from the player root directory, other than .rockbox?
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03:16:32dunpealIs there another list of bookmarks, besides the "recent bookmarks" one?
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09:10:37copper00:20:20 UTC <dunpeal> Can I delete everything from the player root directory, other than .rockbox?
09:11:10copperyes, but if you ever boot the original firmware again, it might re-create the files again
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16:30:24[Saint]copper: what codec are you using when you say that PP iPods can't handle the 10 band EQ?
16:30:40[Saint]And, what *other* effects are present at the time?
16:30:55copper[Saint]: actually I just repeated what I read here
16:31:44[Saint]I tested mp3 @ 320 on the 4G/Color/Photo, Mini 2G, and Nano 1G and there was /just/ enough headroom available.
16:32:04[Saint]If you then aplied dithering, crossfade, etc. etc. probably would push it over.
16:32:19[Saint]But, as a rule, it "works".
16:32:36copperI can't find what I was referring to
16:32:45copper(in my logs)
16:32:54[Saint]I think I also test vorbis of a similar bitrate as well.
16:32:58[Saint]long time ago now.
16:33:16copper2013/06/20 03:53:00 UTC <st4rl> Is it normal that my iPod is slown when I listen to music with the EQ on?
16:33:22copper2013/06/20 03:53:37 UTC <[Saint]> Yes. If you have all 10 bands applied.
16:33:27copper2013/06/20 03:53:59 UTC <[Saint]> The CPU in the iPod 5G isn't particularly powerful, at all.
16:33:47[Saint]right. but that's not "PP can't handle it".
16:34:05[Saint]It certainly can.
16:34:18[Saint]The problem is the presets, really.
16:35:18[Saint]People get the idea that because there are 10 bands there, that they should use them all. ANd a lot of targets can, but, many only *just* can, and probably shouldn't.
16:36:10copperI'm all for a 10 band to 5 band converter utility, online or otherwise
16:36:24[Saint]Fwiw, I do the same thing with the presets I use on my desktop. Its just too much of a PITA to figure out how to get a similar curve using the parametric EQ as it should be.
16:37:09[Saint]And the targets I use on a regular basis have more than enough CPU for me to do so. But, it is wasteful, sure.
16:37:29[Saint]A plugin to plot the curve of the parametric EQ would be *soooooo* sweet.
16:37:45[Saint]...way above my head, though. Much so.
16:37:58copperI'm not sure what you mean by that, or how it would work
16:38:29copperlike a Frequency Response graph?
16:39:14copperthat would be nice, sure, but it wouldn't help me as much for converting a 10 band setup into a 5 band setup
16:40:10[Saint]Well, with it, you could (fairly easily) push and pull and adjust until you get a similar curve.
16:40:36[Saint]I have no idea how we could make it do this automagically.
16:40:40copperwhich reminds me, I need to copy my Clip+ 5 band settings onto my Fuze+
16:41:14coppertook me an hour of RMAA testing to get the curve that I wanted
16:41:18saratogatrying on the e200v1, the 10 band EQ works with MP3 (since its using both cores), but lags hard with WMA or Vorbis
16:41:36saratogathe scroll wheel doesn't respond well
16:41:43saratogaand its at essentially 100% boost
16:42:02saratogahas anyone tried the ipod video
16:42:10saratogai imagine it will be much worse due to the large screen
16:42:32[Saint]I have. It wasn't awful, but it was a bit slow.
16:42:43saratogawith MP3 or something else?
16:42:51[Saint]mp3 and vorbis, iirc.
16:43:35[Saint]I really don't mind if you want to ifdef it to targets we know can handle it.
16:43:48saratogawhats the correct way to do that
16:43:54[Saint]But I'd really rather clean up the presets and leave it up to the user if they want to use stupid settings.
16:44:02saratogamake it ARMv5+ only, or put it in the config files?
16:44:32[Saint]probably the latter.
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16:45:14[Saint]that way if a particular target actually can handle it, when others can't, it is easier to re-enable, no?
16:46:08saratogayeah its just more work
16:46:14[Saint]...but, what do we do about the presets?
16:46:25saratogadelete them?
16:46:26[Saint]we can't have 10 and 5 band presets.
16:46:30[Saint]nuke the fuckers.
16:46:40saratogaoh, well for that i guess they need to be ifdef'ed too
16:46:48saratogaalthough maybe not
16:46:57saratogado we actually want to have any presets that use more than 5 bands?
16:47:07[Saint]nuke 'em until I get a chance to add some sane ones with no more than 5 bands.
16:47:32[Saint]or, if you beat me to that, great.
16:47:39[Saint]I haven't a lot of time lately.
16:47:57copperwhat are the presets based on?
16:48:31copperiPod presets?
16:48:36copperI see 'R&B' in there.
16:48:37[Saint]VLC, but I have a set in gerrit based off the iTunes/iOS/AppleOS ones.
16:49:28saratogavirtualbox is so buggy is ridiuclous
16:49:29[Saint]Hey, nice. I can see how close I was.
16:49:42[Saint]thanks for that, copper.
16:50:27[Saint]That will aid me (or someone else) in making sane presets.
16:50:46[Saint]But for now, I am not against throwing out the presets altogether.
16:51:49*[Saint] wishes sometimes we had the ability to remove deprecated files during install/update.
16:52:10[Saint]...something like a list of files to check, nuke, and then nuke the list itself.
16:53:58[Saint]maybe use md5 sums to avoid nuking user modified content.
16:54:00*[Saint] shrugs
16:54:10[Saint]Hardly essential.
16:56:08saratogai wonder what the best way to improve the EQ situation would be
16:56:27saratogawe could adapt something like the FFT plugin to help make EQ presets
16:56:37saratogaor the core UI itself could have a GUI for doing it
16:57:07saratogarunning test tones through the EQ to map out its response would be trivial in a plugin
16:57:15saratogain core though we might need to be more efficient
16:57:25[Saint]I imagine a plugin would be better. I'm not really a fan of the GEQ being implemented in-core. I think that should really be a plugin, but, meh.
16:57:29saratogaso I guess that would mean analytically computing the approximate shape of the bands
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17:00:59saratogain git how do i see what my commit is going to change before i push it
17:02:28[Saint]"git diff −−stat remote/branch"?
17:03:38saratogait doesn't know what remote/branch is
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17:03:52saratogagit diff origin/master
17:04:42[Saint]sorry. I was unclear there that one would need to replace remote/branch with the actual details.
17:05:58fs-bluebotBuild Server message: New build round started. Revision d475dd3, 217 builds, 20 clients.
17:07:05 Quit petur (Quit: Nettalk6 -
17:07:28[Saint]...long build times lately.
17:07:41[Saint]Did some of our monsters fall off the stack?
17:08:57*[Saint] wonders why so many builds are displayed in the build chart when the logs from the builds aren't kept for them.
17:09:14[Saint]It seems only the *very* recent builds still have their logs.
17:13:30fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Build round completed after 453 seconds.
17:13:31fs-bluebotBuild Server message: Revision d475dd3 result: All green
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17:19:16KureiguHi all.
17:19:48KureiguI'm hoping to get a little help with my Clip+ if possible.
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17:25:17KureiguClip+ On bootup i receive *PANIC* disk_ini failed! is this recoverable?
17:27:40bertriktry holding the |< button during bootup to go to the original firmware and then do a checkdisk
17:31:41Kureigutrying at the moment, but might take a while as most boots i don't get a display and have to force reset
17:33:50bertrikremove any microsd if you're trying this
17:35:00Kureiguyep, not got one in at the moment.
17:36:57Kureigushould i be pressing the previous track button before or after pressing the power?
17:37:21Kureiguholding, not pressing, sorry.
17:38:16[Saint]immediately after.
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17:42:57KureiguYeah, that is as i thought. However it doesn't seems to be trying to boot the OF. It just sits on the RockBox logo, then eventually displays the panis error.
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17:44:49[Saint]I always do it immediately after.
17:44:53[Saint]Works for me.
17:45:57Kureiguif i do it before, i cant get it to display anything.
17:46:23[Saint]I suspect if you cannot boot into the OF, you will need to transfer a new build to an sdcard, boot the player in Rockbox, and then RoLo the new build.
17:46:28Kureigubut i'll wait for a minute, and try plugging into my PC and see if it can see it then
17:46:56pixelmabefore the Rockbox logo appears but right after powering up (just had to write it out as it the two answers before seemed a bit confusing without these additions)
17:47:10[Saint]After RoLo'ing the new build, you could then (hopefully) mount and update.
17:47:37[Saint]pixelma: indeed, thanks.
17:48:18[Saint]pixelma: that is indeed what my description was missing. Thank you.
17:48:57[Saint]Kureigu: Do you have an sdcard and a card reader?
17:49:29Kureigui should be able to use my GoPro as a card reader.
17:50:11bertrik[Saint]: he can't boot into rockbox, as far as I understand
17:50:25[Saint]Transfer an updated build to the sdcard, insert it in the player, and then navigate to the new binary and "run" it by selecting it. You should then be able to mount the device, and perform a full update.
17:50:36[Saint]Ohhhh, that's right. Shit.
17:50:51funman[Saint]: if you press the key before it ensures it is pressed when the dualboot code is run
17:50:52[Saint]Sorry. Not sure where my head is at to forget such a thing.
17:51:00funmanif you wait you can miss that time
17:51:28[Saint]funman: I have had issues like OP doing that. If I press it before, it can hang and do...nothing.
17:51:38[Saint]just a black screen requiring hard reset.
17:51:55[Saint]But, if I do it after power, but before the bootloader splash, it always works.
17:52:54Kureigui cant do the damn thing to do anything atm, looks like im going to have to try a 60sec hold of the power botton.
17:53:07Kureiguget the*
17:53:30bertrikKureigu: the player may now be in some kind of hung up state, so IMO the thing to try is: 1) hold power for 20 seconds to make sure it's really off 2) hold the |< button 3) while holding |<, press the power button
17:54:34[Saint]I wonder why it isn't booting the OF. It can't panic *before* the bootloader firmware selection stuffs...can it?
17:55:06[Saint]that's (one of) the very first thing(s) that happens, no?
17:55:56bertrik[Saint]: right, there's only the OF/rockbox selection and decompression code, written in assembly
17:56:24*[Saint] nods
17:56:25bertrikbut corruption of part of the flash where the OF / rockbox bootloader is stored could make this happen possibly
18:02:28Kureiguno luck getting into OF. tried |<< before, after. plugging into USB, and also holding select whiling plugging in.
18:14:18Kureiguwould be be worth giving th AMSUnbrick method a go?
18:16:55bertrikno, first try a little harder to get it to boot the OF, AMSUnbrick is really a last ditch effort
18:17:31bertrikmake really sure it's really off, when you try to boot the OF with the |< button
18:18:56Kureiguwhat is the best method to ensure it is truly off? leave it along for its auto shut off period.
18:18:58funmanif you see the rockbox log, AMSUnbrick will just help you to break your device definitevely
18:19:19funmancrack the plastic open and unsolder a wire of the battery
18:19:35funmanor move your headphones in the jack plug and see if you can hear noise
18:19:39Kureiguhalfway there, let me grab my iron
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18:23:54Kureigui used to hear a slight pop when turning on the device, but i can't remember at what point exactly that occurred. have any of you got a Clip+ at hand to test that for me?
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18:28:44 Part DarthFrog ("Konversation terminated!")
18:31:22funmanwell you'll hear noise while moving the jack if it is powered on
18:38:05[Saint]I would be tempted to say to just chuck it in a drawer and forget about it for a week or so.
18:38:54[Saint]Same effect, without the risk of trashing hardware.
18:39:15Kureigui was actually thinking more along the lines of having a nice little lithium fire in the back garden.
18:40:15[Saint]You could donate it to a developer here. For spares.
18:40:27Kureiguany in the UK?
18:43:17[Saint]Probably. If you are thinking of just trashing it, it might be best to go on the forum and say who you are, where you are, what happened to the device, and state your terms.
18:43:29[Saint]As in "Free to a good home, if you pay shipping" etc.
18:44:01[Saint]I would leave it a few days to drain the battery, though, if you're not going to disconnect it. See if that helps.
18:44:45*bertrik still hopes we'll discover some kind of ram-loader bootloader on these sansas
18:45:40Kureiguyeah, ill have a play with it next weekend. just dont know what i'm going to use for work next week.
18:47:58Kureiguthanks for your help anyway
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18:58:01*[Saint] wonders, with the level of reported failures lately, if emCORE's Windows installation instructions should have "Step 1: - use linux instead" as its first step.
18:58:10[Saint][7]: ^
18:58:24[7]well, we should rather fix the breakage
18:58:42[Saint]Do we know what broke?
18:58:47[7]yes, windows
18:59:00[7]nothing else has changed in the meantime
18:59:19[7]things just got more picky with USB storage for some reason
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18:59:30[7]the root cause is most certainly a bug on our side though
18:59:58[7]but that's only part of the windows problem: apparently the winusb (non-itunes installation method) DFU driver is just broken
19:00:12[Saint]The linux installation makes the Windows one seem terrifying.
19:00:29[7]most likely it's just packaged wrongly, i.e. one should rewrite that inf file
19:00:49[Saint]If I catch someone in the support channel these days, I pretty much just say "Windows? Yep - OK - use a linux LiveCD/DVD/USB instead" now.
19:00:53[7]back to USB storage: we've seen similar trouble on linux BEFORE it turned up on windows
19:01:05[7](long mounting times etc.)
19:01:25[Saint]I only ever had the "takes forever to mount" problem on Win7
19:01:33[Saint]Not XP nor 8.
19:01:40[7]I guess this got way worse with the advent on USB3, as the drivers were updated
19:01:41[Saint](nor debian/Ubuntu)
19:02:02[7]the most likely root cause seems to be a control vs. bulk endpoint race condition, and I know that the ipod's chipset is prone to that
19:02:29[7]we've seen similar behavior with USB completely locking up when attempting to use the HID
19:02:37[7]which has most definitely the same root cause
19:02:49[Saint] far did you get with your N2G USB rewrite? Do you have that up somewhere?
19:03:17*[Saint] abruptly changes the subject
19:03:21[7]I don't think it was ever integrated into rockbox, but I have the standalone driver around somewhere
19:03:44[7]pamaury started working on that, but apparently never got around to finishing it
19:04:39[Saint]When you get the time, if you could whack that up on gerrit, I'm sure a few people might want to look at it. There's some imx target using the same controller, no?
19:05:21*[Saint] may be nuts, but thinks there may be...
19:05:24[7]quite a lot of things use it. the raspberry pi, for example.
19:05:35[7]or the allwinner A10-based devices, which there are shitloads of
19:06:02[7]or STM32
19:06:36[7]you might want to ask pamaury how far he got with the rockbox adaptations, and put that up on gerrit instead
19:06:51[Saint]ah, so he already has it?
19:06:56[7]my code base is not rockbox/emcore-related at all, and just has some minimal HW setup code for the nano2g platform
19:07:06*[Saint] nods
19:07:25[7]after all it's an STM32 driver that I just ported to the nano in aday
19:07:27[7]a day*
19:10:33[7]it could also make sense to build some more tests for the independent standalone driver, to explicitly test how it behaves during multi-endpoint activity
19:10:58[7]the problem might come from one of those areas:
19:11:05[7]- wrong endpoint FIFO size setup
19:11:22[7]- bad IRQ handling, doing things in the wrong order
19:12:12[7]- bad transfer cancellation / endpoint deconfiguration handling (not properly flushing the FIFOs, or not properly asserting global NAKs while doing so)
19:12:55[7]especially the first and third one are rather tricky to get right, and basically impossible without good documentation on the core
19:15:46 Join ender1 [0] (
19:17:49[7]one could also try to build a tool (for linux) that provokes the lockup of the current driver, to get a better idea of what's actually going on there
19:19:00 Quit ender` (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
19:27:58 Join teddyp [0] (
19:28:21 Nick teddyp is now known as teddyparks (
19:28:27teddyparkshello all?
19:28:33 Quit AlexP (Remote host closed the connection)
19:29:06bertrikhi teddyparks
19:30:48teddyparksI'm trying to register to edit wiki's, I saw where it said to request access in IRC?
19:31:00[7]what's your wiki user name?
19:31:15 Join AlexP [0] (~alex@rockbox/staff/AlexP)
19:31:50[7]you should have access now
19:33:06teddyparksAwesome, thanks!
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19:43:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:01:58dunpealcopper: understood, thanks.
20:02:07amiconn"2013-06-21 17:09:49 Server message: Fatal build error: Command not found. You have been temporarily disabled."
20:02:16amiconnHuh? What command is missing here?
20:02:51dunpealIs there another list of bookmarks, besides "Recent Bookmarks"?
20:03:10dunpealAlternatively, can I incease the number of bookmarks I keep in Recent?
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21:43:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:32:58gevaertsamiconn: I'm seeing that too...
22:33:02*gevaerts doesn't know the answer
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23:46:53dunpealDoes anyone know if I can increase the number of bookmarks in "Recent Bookmarks"? Or otherwise get a list of bookmarks in any other way?
23:48:41 Join Bagder [241] (~daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
23:49:40saratogaBagder: ping
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