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#rockbox log for 2013-06-26

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02:05:55belakOk, so I just got an iPod 5th gen
02:06:28belakAnd it was formatted to run with OSX. Is there a way, on OSX, to format this so I can install rockbox?
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02:43:31b1101belak, no chance you have a windows VM ?
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04:13:36belakb1101: unfortunately, no
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04:53:24ikeboyTry Also I think a Linux vm would work just as well with gparted
04:55:29belakikeboy: ah, awesome. thanks!
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05:32:58[Saint]amayer: slightly confusing question...
05:33:04[Saint]No, its no quicker.
05:33:17[Saint]Both serve different purposes.
05:33:59[Saint]also, wrt the iPod Classic, there is no difference in what works and what doesn't between the various incarnations of the device.
05:34:06[Saint]amayer: belak: ^
05:34:33 Join guymann [0] (~c@unaffiliated/guymann)
05:35:11[Saint]"is displaying album art or a default pic any quicker when you use %vl(#handle, ...) or is it just as quick like %?C<%Cd|%xd(E)>"
05:35:15 Join b1101 [0] (~b@
05:35:35[Saint]I'm not sure what you're trying to do...but, I think you might be confused, or its an oddly worded question.
05:36:09[Saint]Use %Vl/%Vd if you want to display a viewport conditionally...if you don't want to, if it is just static, don't bother...just use %V
05:36:58[Saint]same for images with %xl/%xd
05:37:31[Saint](the easy way to remember how it works is l == load, d == display)
05:39:13[Saint](though, I do recommend using a virtual machine and iTunes, as it is guaranteed to not mess it up)
05:39:47belakiPods are pretty much unbrickable though, iirc
05:44:58[Saint]Pretty much, yes, but, that's not my point.
05:45:23[Saint]When you're playing around with dd, you could easily trash all your *other* data, if you're not careful.
05:45:29[Saint]iTunes can't do this ;)
05:45:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:46:28[Saint]You either need to follow the guide given above *to the letter*, or, set up a virtual machine/borrow a windows machine, and us iTunes.
05:46:30belakI've used dd before. Thanks though.
05:46:59belakGotta go. Thanks!
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07:33:06[Saint]SOmeone just discovered the infowebz.
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08:43:14belakOk, so I managed to get it to a winpod by following the instructions...
08:45:16belakHowever the rockbox utility keeps telling me "Could not open Ipod: permission denied" when I try to install
08:46:34copperbelak: did you format it to FAT32, and did you mount it with user write permissions?
08:46:35[Saint]you need to be root/admin
08:46:44[Saint]copper: unrelated
08:47:04[Saint]fact is, it needs root to install the bootloader.
08:47:43belakAppears to be working now
08:47:56[Saint]Not a problem.
08:48:52[Saint]bluebrother^: (logs) perhaps the error should be ""Could not open Ipod: permission denied - Are you running this process as a privileged user?"
08:49:40copper[Saint]: that's discriminating against poor users
08:50:41 Join fling [0] (~fling@fsf/member/fling)
08:50:48flingIs not rockbox working on iriver T30 > SA58450X1 ?
08:51:55[Saint]It is not.
08:52:06[Saint]Is there something that gave the the impression it should be?
08:53:57[Saint]That device has a *very* limited set of controls.
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08:55:02[Saint]Even if Rockbox were ported to it (and I do not know the details of how likely this would be, but "don't hold your breath" is a fair guess), most of the plugins would be unusable, along with a few features.
08:56:11[Saint]three physical buttons and no remote to extend it would make it...interesting.
08:57:13fling[Saint]: :P
08:57:39fling[Saint]: I found it in the list SA5845 >
08:57:43flingthats all
08:57:50belakHow can I get out of the metronome on an iPod?
08:58:12[Saint]belak: menu+select, probably
08:58:21[Saint]the manual should tell you.
08:59:12belakHm, select + play/pause
08:59:47[Saint]Ah. Sorry. Yes, the plugin keymaps on the iPod (and, probably similar targets) are a little...weird.
09:00:04[Saint]Quite inconsistent.
09:00:12belakAny reason why that is?
09:00:38*[Saint] should probably put on his Mr. Someone hat and do something about that, seeing as how he has known about it for years.
09:01:40[Saint]belak: Were I to speculate, my guess would be authors paying little-to-no attantion to what existing plugins were doing.
09:02:23[Saint]The keymaps for the clickwheel targets are a nightmare.
09:02:32belakI'm just glad to finally have something that's supported well by rockbox
09:02:47[Saint]There's one particularly awful plugin...gah, what is it...
09:03:00[Saint]the spectrograph viewer.
09:03:13[Saint]Uuuuugh. That has some awful combinations.
09:03:39[Saint]The available keys don't really leave us spoilt for choice, though.
09:03:45fling[Saint]: is T30 bad?
09:04:55[Saint]fling: In what sense? I don't know what it is like as a playey.
09:05:04[Saint]It might be great at what it does, I don't know.
09:05:18[Saint]Would it make a good Rockbox target? No. Definitely not.
09:05:36*[Saint] cannot type
09:05:39fling[Saint]: because of buttons?
09:05:45fling[Saint]: no touchscreen?
09:07:45fling5 buttons is enough for 5 fingers to use a chorded input…
09:08:06[Saint]It has 5 buttons? I thought it only had three+hold?
09:08:51 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~LemonBoy@unaffiliated/thelemonman)
09:10:14fling[Saint]: even 3 buttons on each side! >
09:10:37fling[Saint]: I don't have the device now, I left it at home :P
09:11:13[Saint]Well, anyway, if you're interested - you start here:
09:12:05[Saint]pay special attention to "Am I up to the task?" and "Who will help you?"
09:12:57fling[Saint]: Thanks.
09:14:05belak[Saint]: where is the spectrograph viewer?
09:14:49[Saint]belak: I think its called FFT
09:14:59[Saint]Don't have a target near me right now.
09:15:08belakAh, found it
09:16:06belakDoesn't seem _that_ bad
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09:16:26[Saint]try changing the views. Its highly non-obvious.
09:16:36belakYeah, I suppose
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09:16:43[Saint]select+<every_direction> is a key combination :)
09:16:53belakOh, dang
09:16:56belakDidn't notice that
09:17:26[Saint]There's no way it could be any better, but, its a prime example of how bad keymaps can get when there are a lot of options.
09:17:38belakAh, ha!
09:17:49belakSelect + Down doesn't do anything! It could be worse!
09:18:24[Saint]If memory serves, it should.
09:18:28[Saint]I may be mistaken.
09:27:38belakEither way, you're right. It's awful.
09:44:45belak[Saint]: I just threw on the Origami theme and for whatever reason the backdrop isn't being set on the main screen… any idea why?
09:45:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:45:57[Saint]Nope. User submitted themes are a gamble.
09:46:20[Saint]The fact that they parse, doesn't necessarily mean they "work".
09:46:24belak[Saint]: any reason why it would work on everything but the menu screens? It works fine in playback...
09:47:00[Saint]the .sbs is probably settings its own backdrop(s).
09:47:22[Saint]Or rather, the .wps and .fms are setting a backdrop, but the .sbs isn't.
09:47:44[Saint]User submitted themes are a gamble indeed.
09:48:08belakHah, so it would seem
09:49:11[Saint]The only test we can do is "Does this theme parse" (is it syntactically correct), but that doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't broken.
09:49:32belakof course
09:49:36[Saint]It is certainly possible to create a technically valid theme that does absolutely nothing ;)
09:50:13belakI just need to find what the backdrop is supposed to be
09:51:00belak[Saint]: so, there's a backdrop set in themes/Origami.cfg, but I guess that doesn't do anything?
09:51:36[Saint]It may be that a previous theme turned the backdrop off, and this one didn't make sure to turn it back on.
09:52:04belakIs there a theming guide anywhere?
09:52:11[Saint]You might even find that a reboot makes it magically work.
09:52:32[Saint]And, not as such, no.
09:52:43[Saint]The syntax is detailed in the manuals for the devices.
09:53:39[Saint]Hmmm...actually, I don't think there is a "turn the backdrop off" setting, just a "clear backdrop". Hmmm.
09:54:07[Saint]You may find that applying the theme and rebooting "just works".
09:54:17belakIt didn't, unfortunately
09:54:47[Saint]Without looking at the theme itself, which I don't really have time for, I'm just fishing in the dark really. Sorry.
09:55:05belakI'm sure I could hack around it by moving the backdrop to the wps folder and using the same thing the other 2 files did, but that seems odd
09:55:13belakAh, well
09:55:16[Saint]If you've found the backdrop, just select it and apply it as the backdrop from the context menu.
09:55:39[Saint]You shouldn't have to do so, but, yeah.
09:56:18belakWhere is the backdrop setting? I see a "Clear Backdrop" option
09:57:09[Saint]Select the backdrop with the context menu (long select on the item), and there should be a "set as backdrop" (or similarly worded) option if the image matches the device resolution.
09:57:41TheLemonManusb on the clip zip is still unstable as hell, been fighting with it for the last hour
09:58:13[Saint]TheLemonMan: One assumes the OF's USB still works fine, though.
09:59:58belakLooks like the backdrop is smaller than the main backdrop
10:00:18[Saint]belak: that'll be why it isn't being applied.
10:00:33[Saint]I don't think that should've got past checkwps, though.
10:01:12[Saint]I may be mistaken, but I was fairly sure checkwps checked backdrops were the correct resolution.
10:01:24belakI'll double check
10:01:40[Saint]240x320 for the video.
10:02:49belakHm, the Origami.bmp is the same size as cabbiev2.bmp, but has a 32 bit depth rather than 24
10:03:07[Saint]That doesn't matter, it just gets downsampled.
10:03:17belakYeah, that's what I'd assume
10:04:35belakwait, what? It just started working for no real reason...
10:04:47[Saint]...yay? :)
10:05:34[Saint]I was seeing some really weird issues yesterday as well. I think _something_ is awry.
10:05:59belakWell, it works. And it all looks fancy now, so I'm happy.
10:06:12[Saint]I haven't yet had time to really look into it yet, though. Nor do I know if I'll have the chops to do anything about it if I find anything ;)
10:06:36TheLemonMan[Saint]: too much music to index, the OF is awful when it comes to speed
10:06:53[Saint]Anyway, yay for things fixing themselves (but, also, non-yay...because it makes things hard to track).
10:07:05[Saint]TheLemonMan: well, that's your only option, really.
10:07:21[Saint]Well, sorry, you also have the option of "never update the media again".
10:07:54[Saint]If USB is *that* bad, you'll need the OF to even update the thing.
10:11:43TheLemonManthe worst thing is that it doesn't always produce an exception, it's hard to see whats wrong
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10:15:18[Saint]Well, there's basically 3 options: 1 - learn to live with it, 2 - use the OF for now, and 3 - find it and fix it (obviously non-trivial, or it'd be done by now).
10:15:47[Saint]I'm not trying to provoke you, just saying how it is.
10:19:19belakHave the strange USB issues on the classic 6g been fixed?
10:20:00[Saint] don't own one, do you?
10:20:08belakI have a 5g and a 6g
10:20:38[Saint]USB on the Classic is still perfectly usable.
10:20:49belakThe classic, 6g
10:21:09[Saint]There's no point in distinguishing between the Classic models.
10:21:26[Saint]As far as Rockbox is concerned, there is only one.
10:21:36belakI get the iPod Video mixed up with the iPod Classic
10:22:21[Saint]Yes. I want to murder whoever started that.
10:22:48[Saint]At some stage, every non-Touch, non-Nano iPod became a "Classic". Annoying as Hell, and wrong :)
10:23:07belakI miss my mini
10:23:24[Saint]The Mini 2G is a damn fine target. I agree.
10:23:41belakSo easy to take apart, and mod
10:23:53*[Saint] disagrees there.
10:23:53belakAnd the battery and storage are easily replacable
10:23:59[Saint]Well, hmmm.
10:24:00belakCompared to newer models
10:24:26[Saint]It *is* easy to disassemble. It is *not* easy, however, to do so without breaking that annoying ribbon for the clickwheel.
10:24:33belakI'll give you that
10:24:55[Saint]That ribbon is made of tissue paper and fairy wings.
10:32:46belakI can die happy. I have a working theme, along with a few small fixes that make the scrollbar act how it should
10:38:06pixelma240x320 as backdrop size for the Video is only correct if you also mention that 240 is the height and 320 the width. I would understand the first statement the other way around due to conventions I guess ;)
10:39:38[Saint]Hmmm, perhaps HxW is an NZism.
10:39:56[Saint]I'll admit its non-obvious, yes.
10:40:05[Saint]*I* knew what I meant! ;p
10:40:19belakI just took the dimensions of the build in theme's backdrop. I figured it out.
10:40:44 Join wodz [0] (
10:41:13wodzTheLemonMan: Are you interested in working on relocatable plugins/codecs?
10:44:30gevaertswodz: we've extended the devcon wiki table with four more weeks
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10:46:51 Quit belak (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
10:48:25TheLemonManwodz: oh sure, i had a quick look at your patch yesterday
10:51:55wodzTheLemonMan: The truth is that most fun part has been done and proofed. What left are the irritating boring details and LOTS of tests to conduct.
10:53:08wodzTheLemonMan: Anyway I'll be very happy if some one pickup this work. Currently I have no time resources to push this forward.
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11:05:14TheLemonManwodz: if you have a todo list or any note send them. Also, no fancy symbol resolution with global hashtable instead of the plugin_api struct ?
11:06:55wodzTheLemonMan: It was agreed that fancy symbol resolution should be separate task.
11:09:49wodzTheLemonMan: Basicaly todos are: 1) review all plugins using overlays and switch it to relocatables (imageviewer should be treated as POC). 2) upgrade toolchains (mips and sh). 3) TESTS (especially on mips which gonna be hard as no active dev has Onda)
11:10:07wodz4) Cleanups, improvements, commit
11:10:52wodz5) Separately work out plugin_api thing 6) Separately work out dynamic allocation of plugin/codec buffer
11:11:12wodz7) Work out multiple plugins at the same time
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11:45:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:55:57 Part TheLemonMan ("WeeChat 0.4.1")
12:02:39pamaurywodz: i'm trying the recovery procedure for the rk27xx but the device keeps being reset by linux
12:03:46pamauryhow do you boot into recover mode ?
12:07:33pamauryotherwise i'll try by booting into windows directly
12:07:46pamaurymaybe it won't reset the device this way
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13:21:02wodzpamaury: I don't quite understand your problem
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13:34:34pamaurywodz: when I plug my rk27xx device, it shows up as a mass storage device but it is reset all the time
13:34:41pamauryso I cannot recover it
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13:39:43wodzpamaury: You said the other day that it shows up as rockchip DFU
13:40:12pamauryI don't remember
13:40:34pamauryis there a way to reach dfu mode, like holding a button ?
13:41:01wodzpamaury: anyway, remove uSD and power up the device holding any button. This should bring DFU mode
13:42:21pamaurydoesn't work, still show up as mass storage
13:43:12wodzso the only idea which comes to my mind is shorting nand pins
13:45:40pamauryah right, I did that the other time !
13:45:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:45:58pamauryI remember now: I had the same problem and had to short pins :-:
13:59:55wodzright the behavior you are experiencing comes from the fact that nand bootloader is intact but FTL is f***** up so chainloaded rockbox bootloader never comes into action. BUT this should mean that booting player (without USB plugged in) should end up in DFU mode. Can you check this?
14:13:51pamaurywodz: when without usb it doesn't seem to reach dfu mode, strange
14:16:56wodzpamaury: Thanks for test, that gives me some more insight into boot process. I think I understand why it is so
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14:51:14 Join SRRavenwork [0] (c3f371f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
14:51:27SRRavenworkHEy quick question. fuze+ can handle micro sdxc right?
14:52:04SRRavenworkah it can, googling would have been faster :)
14:54:59SRRavenworknow I just gotta figure out if a 64 gb micro sd for FLAC would be worth it or not :S
14:55:22amayer[Saint]: what i was trying to ask is if you do a conditional at the top of the theme file and then do %vl lower in the theme does that render quicker then just doing the conditional and output what i want right away (the conditional would be in a viewport)
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15:03:58pixelmado you really mean %vl or rather %Vl and %Vd?
15:04:29amayerpixelma, yes %Vl sorry... im not actually looking at the theme right now
15:06:57 Quit SRRavenwork (Quit: Page closed)
15:07:00amayerit would be %V(6,6,100,100,-) \n %?C<%Cd|%xd(E)> vs: %?C<%Vd(a)|%Vd(b)> \n %Vl(a,6,6,100,100,-) \n %Cd \n %Vl(b,6,6,100,100,-) \n %xd(E)
15:07:24amayerreplace \n with newline, xchat doesnt let me send newline
15:08:18amayerim just wondering if one is more "correct" or one loads better in the theme engine
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15:19:35[Saint]amayer: no, no quicker at all.
15:19:58[Saint]I would advise you against embedding viewport conditions in other viewports, as well.
15:20:25[Saint]typically declarations are done at the top of the theme for readability.
15:21:27[Saint]not much time now, but I'll be reading the logs later.
15:30:21amayeri wasnt puting the condition in another viewport
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16:26:09[Saint]amayer: well, technically you are, if it is coming after a viewport declaration.
16:26:41amayeroh i see what your saying
16:26:46amayerwith the first example
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16:27:25amayerwell then i will update my code. i thought it looked cleaner as 1 line. but i will update it, thanks [Saint]
16:28:11[Saint]it isn't necessary, at all, really. But its one of those things that can make life easier for anyone else looking at it down the track.
16:29:15[Saint]and because of the vast amounts of cut and paste cloning of themes (which is a good thing, any creativity is good) it sort of became an unwritten rule.
16:30:21amayer[Saint] I also like your volume/progress bar switching code. I use it in one of my themes. the only thing i found where it didnt work is if you change the volume and imidiatly seek in the song there is still a 2 second timeout for the volume
16:30:30[Saint]maybe its just me that thinks so. But it makes it vastly more human readable if everything is lumped together. image preloads, additional fonts, viewport conditions, viewports.
16:31:17[Saint]Oh? Nice catch. I think that could be gaurded against reasonably easily.
16:42:37[Saint]amayer: quick and dirty fix for that off the top of my head - wrap the true condition for the volume display segment with something like "%?if(%mp,>,3)<>"
16:43:04[Saint]then it can only display if it is stopped (irrelevant, we're not in the wps so we don't care about this), playing, or paused.
16:43:59[Saint]I'm on my phone in bed, so I can't give a full example without more effort, but that _should_ fix that situation.
16:44:08amayerill look into that. thanks :)
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17:13:53pamaurygevaerts: out of curiosity, what would you think about implementing a driver for the creative file systems ?
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18:34:53saratogawhat does supporting the creative file system get us? dual booting?
18:39:01pamaurysaratoga: access to internal storage without reformating to FAT (which would break OF)
18:39:23saratogawould it be possible to just repartition the disk into a smaller CFS partition?
18:39:34pamauryand dual booting (but that's another story, this one uses a diffirent file system)
18:39:57pamaurysaratoga: maybe, but then again, the OF cannot read FAT
18:40:21saratogais the OF worth having? (never used these devices)
18:40:22pamauryand even repartition might not be trivial
18:40:37saratogaon lots of older devices we didn't have dual booting if the OF sucked enough (eg gigabeat)
18:41:28pamaurythe OF is not that bad
18:41:52saratogai'm ok with adding support for a new file system but it sounds like its probably hard :)
18:43:54pamauryi'm currently reverse engineering it, we'll see if I can find how it works
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19:12:00mikebombI would like to try to get a developer interested in taking a look at FS #12864. This bug was introduced between 3.12 and 3.13 and affects the Resume Playback feature. Thanks for your attention.
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19:38:59pamaurywodz (log): I have recovered my RK27 device ! It is a bit strange though: the recovery partly failed so I manually repartition the device: now I only have a 8GB system partition :-/ But putting using rk27generic bootloader as BASE.RKW at the root works like a charm :)
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19:49:58bluebrother^[Saint]: "user write permissions" actually isn't unrelated :) The thing is you need write permissions to the device (i.e. /dev/sdb or whatever the Ipod is), not only the mounted partition.
19:50:19bluebrother^so you don't necessarily need root permissions.
19:50:30bluebrother^and the mini is easy to take apart and mod :)
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20:25:24wodzpamaury: Thats great you have working rk27xx device :-) Having only 8GB system partition is super weird. I would love to inspect nand dump of such state.
20:25:51wodzpamaury: Could you describe somewhere what you did exactly, what worked and what failed?
20:26:54pamauryI followed the procedure, except that after running the recover, the device reboots (expecting) and then the tool should format it, but it fails (the tools says "format failed"). So I exited the tool and simply reformated the device using windows
20:28:13pamauryMy guess is that the tool should have reformatted with two partitions, maybe the system one using a specific partition tag. Maybe you can confirm or contradict ?
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20:32:02wodzAFAIK both system and user are disks logicaly with single partition each. There is a structure stored in one of a few first nand blocks which describe the split of physical medium between system and user. If you look at you will see what I mean.
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20:33:48wodzSo I would expect that second item of ID block 1 is screwed and there is no physical space left for user disk.
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20:36:58gevaertswodz: did you see that we've extended the devcon wiki table with four more weeks?
20:37:48wodzgevaerts: Yes. I am still negotiating with my wife :-)
20:45:13pamaurywodz: ok, then maybe the recovery tools does something strange ^^
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21:11:03wodzpamaury: Do you have OF (BASE.RKW) matching nand bootloader you flashed during recovery?
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21:26:28pamaurywodz: not sure I understand the question, the BASE.RKW is the one produce by rockbox
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21:32:03wodzpamaury: So you don't have OF file right?
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21:47:40pamaurywodz: no, I don't think so
21:47:57pamauryI'm not sure I ever had it
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21:53:15wodzpamaury: I thought that recover process involves copy of the OF to system partition (and hence you have OF BASE.RKW which is compatible with flashed nand bootloader)
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21:55:39pamaurywodz: yes if you have a copy of the OF, which I don't
21:56:04pamauryand when I tried to use the second software (the upgrader), it failed with an error message which I can't read (seems chinese)
21:57:05wodzthats unfortunate
22:00:02wodzpamaury: In recovery tool you can select system partition size IIRC. What was set there?
22:00:47pamaurywodz: can I ? I see no such thing as editing the system partition size
22:01:19wodzpamaury: can you post the link to the guide you followed?
22:01:52pamaurybasically I couldn't go further than the first image
22:06:28wodzpamaury: The setting is on the second screen (RK27Upgrade tool). If sys disk size is not set but the nand ID block is erased that would mean 0xffff size in MB. That would explain why you have only system disk :-) I need to dig up nand dumper code!
22:08:30pamaurywodz: I couldn't run the second tool I told you
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22:08:46pamaurywhen trying to select the firmware as describe, I got an error message
22:09:07pamauryin fact I couldn't even complete the first step of the procedure with the first software
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